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View Full Version : Does Palps know Padme's alive when he says Ani killed her?



JediTricks
05-21-2005, 12:17 AM
It seemed like that was what Lucas was saying the way he portrayed the scene, but does Palpatine know Padme survived and he's just yanking Anakin's chain to make him hate himself? I don't think so, Obi-Wan never tells Anakin that she wasn't dead (or possibly that Obi-Wan himself was able to save her just before they started fighting, I wasn't sure which way they went there), Palpatine wasn't at Mustafar when it happened and could only take Ani's word on it since Obi-Wan put Padme onto the ship before Palps got there. And finally, there's the public open-casket funeral with a seemingly-pregnant dead Padme and Palps had to know about it.

I was upset that up until that scene, Palpatine was able to deftly manipulate the truth without out-and-out lying to get his way and then he lies to Ani at the end, but now I don't think he was lying there either. Where's the evidence that tells us that Palpatine is lying to Anakin during the "Frankenstein" scene near the end? I don't think it's there, I think Palps believes Ani killed her on Mustafar and tells the boy the truth as Palpatine knows it.

kool-aid killer
05-21-2005, 01:47 AM
I too think that Palpatine believed that Anakin killed Padme, im sure he was aware of her public funeral on Naboo. I think his smile at the end was basically him displaying his glee in having gained control of Anakin. And you have to figure that Palpatine probably had designs to kill Padme anyways, given how she would have held much more sway over Anakin than he would have, something that had he couldnt risk.

2-1B
05-21-2005, 02:01 AM
I believe that Palps thinks Padme to be dead and he certainly does seem delighted for that to be the case. He definitely does now have Vader under his thumb, he seduced him with thoughts of saving Padme but now he doesn't have to make good on that silly lie and it's too late for Vader to go back . . . until Luke convices him otherwise. :)

Kidhuman
05-21-2005, 02:24 AM
He didnt know. He knew Vader choked her out, but didnt know she was barely alive and that she gave birth. The funeral with her showing pregnant was a nifty move on the behalf of Yoda and Obi-Wan

Slicker
05-21-2005, 05:36 AM
I don't see how Palp's could've known either way if she was dead or not. He may have felt it some how and just told Anakin that to further his journey to the dark side.

dr_evazan22
05-21-2005, 09:30 AM
We already know that time is fluid in the SW universe. I think it is just 'artistic license' that is used to juxtapose the two births (twins vs vader).

vulcantouch
05-21-2005, 01:00 PM
. . .he'd risk anivader turning on him if he ever found out he lied to him about it :dead:

darthvyn
05-21-2005, 01:31 PM
i wouldn't be too sure that the inter-cut scenes of padme giving birth and of anakin being put back together were intended to BE at the same time. i think it was just an interesting juxtaposition of births/deaths.

most likely, palpatine knew through the force what vader had done to her on mustafar, and wanted to use his self-loathing over his actions to keep him in check.

JediTricks
05-22-2005, 07:27 PM
. . .he'd risk anivader turning on him if he ever found out he lied to him about it :dead:
I dunno VT, Palps didn't seem to have any trouble BSing Anakin into helping kill Mace with promises of Force-enabled lifesaving abilities that not 1 minute later he says is tricky and they'll have to look into it some more in the future. It's not an out-and-out lie, but it's definitely a major shift in what he's getting at which makes it hard to understand why Anakin would continue following him after hearing that, most of us can tell when we've been bait-n-switched.

DarthAngel
05-22-2005, 07:44 PM
I'll agree to a certain extent that Palpatine sensed what Anakin/Vader did to Padme through the force, and I'm pretty sure that Palpatine was the one who tempted Viceroy Gunray to hire Jango Fett in Episode 2 to take out Padme.

What I don't agree with, is that Palpatine flat out lied to Anakin/Vader about Padme being dead as a means of keeping Anakin/Vader in check. I think that Palpatine feared that if he didn't say Padme was dead, Anakin/Vader would have seeked out Padme and tried to get her (or one of the twins or some other force sensitive being) to become his apprentice and help him overthrow Palpatine, and that is why Palpatine did what he did, and that is why he smiled after he said that Padme was dead.

2-1B
05-22-2005, 10:33 PM
I dunno VT, Palps didn't seem to have any trouble BSing Anakin into helping kill Mace with promises of Force-enabled lifesaving abilities that not 1 minute later he says is tricky and they'll have to look into it some more in the future. It's not an out-and-out lie, but it's definitely a major shift in what he's getting at which makes it hard to understand why Anakin would continue following him after hearing that, most of us can tell when we've been bait-n-switched.

Palpatine tells him to go kill the Jedi and the Separatists and then he will be strong enough to save her and that, IMO, was a perfect way to string him along. The immortality thing you are referring to is different. :)

Droid
05-23-2005, 11:14 AM
Maybe Palpatine saw security tapes from Mustafar and saw Anakin choking her, her dropping, the droids putting her on the ship, and assumed she was dead and Anakin had killed her.

hango fett
05-23-2005, 02:11 PM
i think the key part in palpys speech was "seems" that means most likely. but not for sure...
HF

JimJamBonds
05-23-2005, 03:33 PM
I agree with Caesar, it was just a way of keeping Vader strung out doing his dirty work which allowed him to get so far into there is no way he could get out. Saying Padme's dead helps seals the deal. I LOVE Palp's evil smile, he seems a bit unsure of the Frankensith he's created but reaslies this will be his greatest weapon to use.

Jim Jam

scruffziller
05-23-2005, 04:04 PM
I really don't think it matters. Palpy was going to tell Anikin/Vader that no matter what.

2-1B
05-24-2005, 03:23 AM
Palpatine returned to Coruscant to rebuild Vader, the same Coruscant that Padme lived and worked on, and also the same Coruscant that Jim Jam left to go meet Boss Nass at the funeral.

He knew about her fate when he told Vader. Looked like he was sporting major wood, just eager to tell Vader how FUBAR he made everything ! :)

JediTricks
05-24-2005, 06:07 AM
Palpatine tells him to go kill the Jedi and the Separatists and then he will be strong enough to save her and that, IMO, was a perfect way to string him along. The immortality thing you are referring to is different. What I was talking about is when Anakin first pledges himself to Palpatine, before Palpatine sends Anakin to destroy the Jedi temple, which comes well before the scene where he sends Anakin to Mustafar. I don't remember anything about being "then you will be strong enough" though.


Palps says to Anakin that he CAN save Padme, he CAN give Anakin that power, then the minute Anakin agrees to become a Sith, Palps says it's hard and they'll have to look into it sometime in the future. I dunno about you, but when mom keeps saying for days on end that we will buy ice cream after the flower show, then we get to the car to drive to the flower show and mom says "well, we'll look up an ice cream recipe tomorrow or some time", I ain't going to the friggin' flower show. Anakin has to know he's not getting the "ice cream" any time soon, and his wife is due to give birth and die ANY DAY now, but he's now hearing that they'll look into a recipe some vague time in the future and who knows if it'll even work once they get there, Anakin is being yanked around and yet continues holding up his end of the agreement even though the other side clearly is BSing.

2-1B
05-24-2005, 02:15 PM
Sorry JT but you're just mistaken.

Palps does tell Anakin he can help him save Padme, the Mace murder happens, and as Anakin kneels Palps starts talking about cheating death and all that immortality stuff. He has Vader rise and Palps heads over to his desk. They talk out their plot and he tells Vader to kill the Jedi and then go to Mustafar. Palps tells Vader in one breath to do the Jedi and then go to Mustafar. That is when he says you will be strong enough to save Padme.

Of course it's a lie but Anakin believes him and after he does these deeds he tells Padme "only my new powers can save you."

Sith Lord 0498
05-24-2005, 06:08 PM
Of course it's a lie but Anakin believes him and after he does these deeds he tells Padme "only my new powers can save you."

You've got to wonder if it ever occurred to Anakin that while he may be strong enough with the Dark Side to save Padme...that he doesn't know how to use those powers to do it?!?! What does he think...that it'll just come to him somehow. What if she were to go into labor right then and there? Would he know how to wield the Dark Side to suit his desires??

Bantha274
05-25-2005, 10:14 AM
In ROTJ, Palpatine says that everything has happened by his design. So yes, he knows Anakin killed Padme at the end of ROTS.

CaptainSolo1138
05-25-2005, 12:26 PM
In ROTJ, Palpatine says that everything has happened by his design. So yes, he knows Anakin killed Padme at the end of ROTS.
That explanation doesn't hold water for me. If that were the case, he would have known that his pastey mug was gonna be chucked down that reactor shaft. :D

evenflow
05-25-2005, 04:50 PM
I think he believed she was dead. With that i think there may have been an assumption that the unborn child died as well.

Sith Lord 0498
05-25-2005, 05:40 PM
In ROTJ, Palpatine says that everything has happened by his design. So yes, he knows Anakin killed Padme at the end of ROTS.

While you can read that much into it, I really think Palpatine was simply referring to the Imperial ambush on the Alliance at Endor. Contextually, that makes sense. It wouldn't make sense for Palpatine to be outlining his plot to destroy the Rebels, but then make mention of events 20 years past.

JediTricks
05-26-2005, 03:54 AM
Today, I saw non-digital ROTS and in it, Vader now in armor says about killing Padme that it couldn't be true because he could feel she was alive when the duel started, I definitely don't remember him saying this in the digital version the first time around so this kills my theory that he told Palpatine she was dead.

Also, the digital version I remember having Anakin walk along side Palpatine after destroying Mace with the comment I mentioned originally, but here it plays a little different (though still a bit of a let-down after promising Anakin that power). And as well, Palps says something about the Jedi uprising wanting to kill not just him but all the senators as well as himself, which makes no sense so is I guess the first case of Palps lying to Ani (which contradicts what I said in the opening post).

I still think Palps believes she's dead when he says this though.