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View Full Version : How do you rate Episode III: Revenge of the Sith?



JediTricks
05-24-2005, 04:05 AM
Star Wars - Episode III: Revenge of the Sith opened across the globe last week to favorable reviews and impressive box office sales. The film marks the last Star Wars movie to ever grace the silver screen (or perhaps not, you can never tell with that crafty George Lucas, some suspect even he doesn't know for sure) and the boldest tale in the prequel saga. Episode III raked in over $16 million just on its midnight theater openings on Thursday, picking up over $150 million in the US alone throughout its first weekend... suggesting that you, the Star Wars fan, have probably seen it by now, some more than once. Thus, this week's poll was a no-brainer really, what do the fans think of the movie just after opening weekend?

Astromech
05-24-2005, 04:40 AM
Overall, as a movie I thought it was sub-par. As a SW movie it was pretty good when held against the last two.
Doesn't touch the OTC for some very obvious reasons:
1. Bad acting (there is no substitute)
2. Bad directing & editing (movie didn't move well).

If I were to have been in the room when George was making his final cuts:
1. Dooku should have been killed in EP2. Why wait just to kill him in the opening sequence?
2. I would have cut ALL off the Grevious stuff. Talk about a villian that I never got invested in. Why? Because there was ZERO character development on him unless you saw the cartoons. All you had to go on was the crawl. You knew he was, well sort of bad, but he kidnapped the guy who we know is bad, so is he really bad? Ahh, who cares, he'll be dead in 10 mins.
3. The whole Kashyyk scenes were totally gratuitous, had no impact on the plot whatsover, and only served to use Chewbacca as a marketing tool. Which worked famously as always. Us SW fans will buy anything and go to any movie over and over again, so who really cares.
4. Tion. Boy did they have a chance to make a cool and interesting character out of that guy. Struck out AGAIN by giving the coolest looking character in the movie a bit part (see Darth Maul).
5. Jedi Counsel. These guys and gals have been marketed to the hilt. They are interesting looking, have cool powers, and I imagine had something to offer the movie if there was ANY development on ANY character other than Yoda. EP I & II failed to do that development so when these lightsaber wielding strangers were getting whacked, I didn't care. Sam Jackson is one of the best actors in the world. He was stifled with lame lines and stiff acting direction.
6. Weapon & clone trooper development. One of the things I loved about the OTC was that things evolved a little at a time. Usually as each world was introduced, they had their own cool defense weapons and the Empire had a way to fight on the planet that was unique. (sandtroopers, walkers, tie-bombers, etc...)
This movie just threw tons of new weapons and craft at us with no understanding of care as to how they worked. The audience didn't have that fascination and anticipation the rebels had in the trenches of Hoth. It was just, how much crap can we pack onto the screen.

Besides those glaring errors, the special effects were fantastic. I loved the duel choreography as well. Mustafar was great.

The movie was long.

Hayden is a BAD actor. Period. I did not believe him. Geroge could have got ANYONE to play that role. He chose a lame duck. I was happy when he caught fire. The love between Anakin and Padme was laughable. I never bought it. Nothing like the tension between Han & Leia. But it doesn't matter. It's SW and it will break all the records.
And yes, I'll go again. (there was just so much to see!!!) :crazed:

Slicker
05-24-2005, 06:47 AM
I had to give it a 4. The only reason for that is because I've only seen it twice and was very tired both viewings so I don't have a really good opinion on it. Don't get me wrong I loved what I can remember but it takes a couple of viewings to really get what's going on and see the visuals. Great movie all in all but I think I'll need about 20 more viewings to give you a really good opinion.;)

OC47150
05-24-2005, 08:22 AM
I thought it was great, the best of the prequels.

There were some things that could've been tweaked here and there that could've elevated the movie even more, such as some of the battle scenes extended and a little more of Order 66 being executed.

I'm anxious to see the deleted scenes on the DVD.

Darkross
05-24-2005, 08:26 AM
I was disappointed with the film...I mean within the first 5 minutes of AOTC...I loved the film...but 15 minutes into Sith...I was still contemplating on whether I liked it or not. I guess a couple of things that stood out for me as just plain STUPID:

1. the STUPID BUZZ DROIDS? What's up with those? I mean can you say Sentinals from the Matrix? They add nothing to the movie...and certainly no suspense. They could have just had Obi-Wan and Anakin fly through a ton of droid ships or heavy batteries lasers.

2. Rocket-launching R2D2? I mean this guy was constantly rocketing out of his socket each time the ship carrying him landed. They could have done this better.

3. Battle-droid voices? Just plain stupid dialogue and voices.

4. Droid ships? I mean come-on...they were dumb!

5. Frankenstein Darth Vader...that whole scene where his yells and everything around him starts crushing...that whole scene was dumb. Sure he was mad...but again he could have taken it out on a couple of Imperial Officers.

Things that I thought (Huh?):

1. Where is Shak-Ti? Where all of the Jedi truly killed off? Maybe she'll be used for the TV series and killed off at the end???

2. Luke and Leia born on Asteroid Colony?...I thought they would be born on or near Dagobah?

3. Why did Lucas use Mustafar instead of Sullust? It would have tied the OT and the PT together nicely.

4. Why did Mace die so easily?

5. Where is Boba Fett? I thought he would kill Mace Windu? Not that I really missed him that much...

6. What was that building on Mustafar? Was it part of the DeathStar under construction?

Things I thought were GREAT:

1. All of the lightsaber duels...especially between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Dooku getting both hands cut-off...and kneeling defenseless against Anakin with two lightsabers at his throat.

2. When Vader was suited up...I was silently hoping that he would be screaming NOOOOOOO! when they lowered his mask. Would have been cool!

3. Mustafar ...the whole planet was cool.

4. Seeing the Deathstar under construction.

5. Finally seeing Alderaan...although I was diappointed that it was only 2 seconds on-screen.

6. That Lucas pretty much addressed all of the loose ends (Spirit Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan knowing about both Luke and Leia before ESB which is what I have always believed).

Overall...I liked the movie...but I didn't have the same feeling at the end like I did with AOTC...like I gotta see it again. I'm not sure if I will or not before the DVD is released...I'll have to see.

Definitely a good movie...but still unsure about how it rates in the PT.

Darth Kev
05-24-2005, 08:31 AM
I give it a 5. I've seen it four times now, and I still love it. Yes, there are a couple of cringe-inducing moments, but overall I thought it was a nice bridge to the OT. The worst scene is Padme brushing her hair on the balcony and talking to Anakin, but hey, Lucas just can't write a love story (which I guess is good, that way we don't have to expect any "chick flicks" from him now that he's free to "make the films that I want to make."

I have to agree with Spielberg's first impression in that it was sad, as I did feel for the Jedi when Order 66 was given. I loved Palpatine--revealing that same old evil cackling laugh of the emperor in "Jedi."

The saber battles were great, although I thought the Dooku fight was too short. Grievous was a necessary foreshadowing of Anakin's fate--another half-man half-machine baddie.

As far as the Tion Medon comment above, what more could they possibly have done with him? Bruce Spence is a bit actor, and it was a bit part. If anything, I'd have rather seen more from the separatists instead of Gunray being their only voice and poster boy. A little hint of the coming rebellion also. I heard that there were scenes that showed the rebel beginnings with Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma. They'll be on the DVD I believe.

And speaking of Mothma, where was she? We have this new figure and she didn't even make the final cut. Same with Shaak Ti, and I only caught a brief glimpse of Luminara directing clones on Kashyyyk.

I'm betting that the TV series focuses on Mothma and Organa organizing the rebellion on Dantooine.

Anyway, Sith was awesome, with a great bittersweet ending that *nearly* (I said nearly) brought a tear to my eye.

DarkArtist
05-24-2005, 08:55 AM
I have mixed reviews as well. In some cases yes the acting was anything but acting, rather people reading Q cards or teleprompters. Some of the visual effects looked bad, the shot of the Tantive IV and Grievous starfighter docking, it looked as if George tried to use models again to bring back the look of the OT.
The lightsaber duel between Anakin and Obi Wan was not up to par, I expected more. Plus the novel totally blew away the movie, greater details in the novel were cut from the film, plus what happened to the Qui Gon Jinn scene ?
I will go see it again and can only hope that the DVD splices in some of the deleted scenes like Lucas did for TPM. :ermm:

stillakid
05-24-2005, 08:59 AM
That is a tough question to answer. After my first viewing, I left with a sense that it was a "fun" movie in general. By ignoring the glaring plot, continuity, character, and dialogue problems, it is possible to sit back and enjoy the eye candy and potential toys flying across the screen. Turn off your brain and this is enjoyable. :classic:

But then there is the story and character stuff. Yikes. Only a Lucas Worshipper could still be making excuses for some of this. Yet it is difficult to lay the blame entirely at the feet of ROTS as most of the difficulty was established by TPM and AOTC. ROTS had nowhere to go and no way to pull the story out of it's predetermined tailspin. If George did anything correctly in ROTS, it was that he kept the actual plot elements to an absolute minimum and filled the other 2 hours with pure videogame action sequences.

I waffled between giving it a 2 or 3 and settled on 2.

dindae
05-24-2005, 09:15 AM
I gave it a three. I have only seen it once and it might go to a four after a few viewing but right now I'm disappointed. I really thought Dooku and Grievous fell too easily especially Dooku. Part of this was probably because I had concieved a scene that Dooku and Anikin would fight in a mirrored battle of Luke and Vader in ROTJ where Palpatine try to turn Luke but this time it worked. So when he went down so quickly I was a bit shocked. The battle droid continued cartoonism dialogue really got old. The romantic scene between Anakin and Padme could only be worse if they broke into the "I love you more" "No I love you more" fight. But my overall complaint was that I didn't have the emotions I thought I should during the scenes. As I watched all the jedi get slaughtered I didn't feel horrified. I felt only the slightest amount of pity when Vader found out he had killed Padme (part of that was that I was still trying to figure out how Leia could have any memory of her mother when she just died and why if it was not Padme would she be so sad all the time). I felt a lot of scenes were very rushed. I know the movie was already well over 2 hours but if Lord of the Rings can get away with 3+ hours I'm sure Star Wars fans would be able to give Lucas a few more moments of their time to develop some suspense and emotion.

Ryno
05-24-2005, 10:41 AM
I gave it a 4. The first time I saw it I found myself getting very irritated in the beginning with the stupid battle droids (the moaning, the Super Battle Droids' personalities, etc.) I also felt like after the rescue sequence that the movie just came to a grinding hault until Obi-Wan went off to Utapu. The thing is that you see these trailers and they just look so dark and cool, but they're just snipets. You forget that George has to bog it down with the weak romance, his lame version of comedy, etc. I just wanted to get to Anakin turning to the dark side, which I thought was perfect. From that point on I loved the movie. The second time around I just sat and tried to enjoy it for everything it was and I found myself really having a great time with it.

I think the best part of the movie for me was that Anakin didn't turn easily. He really did struggle with his decision; even after he helped take out Mace (I may be wrong, but didn't he even have a couple of tears in his eyes on Mustafar?).

The bad secondary character development (jedi, Darth Maul, etc.), horrible dialoge, "comedy", etc. where all parts of TPM and AOTC, so why should we be surprised they were in ROTS? What I felt was really missing from ROTS was.....

1. Leia's explenation of her mother. Are we to assume now that she is talking about Bail's wife? I don't think she could have conjured up that many "images and feelings" of sadness from the whole two seconds they were together after her birth.

2. No Dagobah. I was interested to see why Yoda chose that place and how he got there.

3. No Qui-Gon. I was looking forward to seeing him again, but at least the whole spirit thing is kind of explained.

4. More of Order 66. The movie was already over 2 hours 20 minutes, what would it hurt to add another minute or two to one of the most interesting parts of the movie?

5. The formation of the rebellion. See description for Order 66.

This movie was never going to be perfect for anyone and we were all going to have complaints about something. I personally though did think it was a pretty good movie that I enjoyed watching very much and can't wait to see again.

TCC-1972
05-24-2005, 12:12 PM
I gave it a 3. It felt too rushed. The battles were cut too short. They edited the living crap out of this movie! This movie should have been as long & as detailed as the Lord of the Rings movies. I don't like the "just thrown together" half assed feeling I got from it. I was telling everybody that III would be the best one. But I walked out of the theater with a feeling that it could have & should have been so much more! I felt like it was hacked up & I only saw 75% of the real movie. What a huge let down!

There was no reason for the Wookiee scenes.

There was no reason for Padme to die. How do you get your heart broken & then lay down & drop dead? I've had my heart broken or have been depressed many times & I always woke up. Maybe slept 17 hours at a time but still woke up. That was just horrible writing! How many women would have 2 new babies & not wanna take care of them? Women never value their husbands or boyfriends more than their own children. They'll kick their husbands out before giving up their children! What planet is George from?

I read that the space battle in the beginning of Episode III was gonna blow away every space battle ever put to film. Total lie! WHAT EPIC SPACE BATTLE???? There was no battle in the beginning! It was just Anakin & Obi-Wan flying their ships with a space battle far in the background. It was nothing compared to the battles on both Death Stars from IV & VI.

Episode III was a good Star Wars movie but it was nothing special.:cry:

Bummer!

plasticfetish
05-24-2005, 01:16 PM
I gave it a "4", but honestly, I'm really thinking that it was pretty close to a 5.

Many of the comments so far (in this thread anyway) have started with, "I thought it was gonna have" or "I expected to see." I'll admit to having some big expectations, but I'm not about to kick this film because it didn't match up with the Star Wars script in my head.

As far as not getting to see Qui-Gon, Dagobah, or having the "Leia's memories of her mother" thing expanded on... seriously, didn't this movie have tons of linking details as it is? I'm glad that Lucas restrained himself -- just a little anyway -- and resisted the urge to turn the entire movie into one big PT/OT Rosetta Stone.

I thought the pacing was very appropriate. These film are (like it or not) meant to be modern, hi-tech versions of early serial sci-fi adventure shows. They're Flash Gordon for the digital age, and this time it all felt "right" to me. The plot, the acting and the dialog seemed completely appropriate -- I'll need to watch again, but I wasn't jolted by any particular low points or cringe-worthy moments the first time through.

My biggest complaint about the prequels, beyond nit-picking over a few scenes here or there that I didn't like, has had to do with my feeling a general lack of intensity from the actors. "Faster, more intense!" really does end up being the most important bit of direction that Lucas can give. The acting and dialog needs to be somewhat over-the-top to prevent it from being swallowed up by a digitally intensified, image fattened film. This time we saw humor, suffering and most everything in-between.

I may change my mind a little after a second viewing, but for now I'm very satisfied.

CaptainSolo1138
05-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Like Jeff Spicoli said: "Awesome! Totally awesome!"

chrisc
05-24-2005, 01:48 PM
loved it. It was kind of sad, but really cool. The only thing it hated was the command 66. I thiught Vader and Palpatine killed all the Jedi. I hated when the clones killed Aayla Secura. She was the best looking Jedi. I hate them stupid clones for killing her.

2-1B
05-24-2005, 01:51 PM
I give it a 5 :)

Ewan McGregor gives the best performance of any Star Wars film with Hayden Christensen coming in at a respectable 2nd place.

TheDarthVader
05-24-2005, 01:52 PM
At first I felt disappointed. Where are all of the scnes I wanted?

But now that I think back on ROTS, I liked it! ROTS was an exciting movie to watch, it moved quickly, and the effects were right on target!

I gave the movie a 4. I did not feel that I had sat in a movie theater for over 2 hours. The movie moved well. Ian's acting was worth 2 points alone on this scale! He was born to play Emperor Palpatine.

B.
TDV

jedi master sal
05-24-2005, 01:53 PM
I saw it 14 times over the four days from the midnight premiere til 5pm on Sunday.

I LOVED it everytime. There's so much going on. I teared up during the Jedi purge, at the premiere.

Over subsequent viewings I started watching the background stuff to see everything else that was going on.

Some very cool colorations for astromechs in there. Saw Binary loadlifters!!! (Yes they are there and no, I'm not saying where, you'll have to go see for yourself. Just get the ROTS Visual Dictionary and see what they are, then look for them.) Anyway, there's alot going on.

I could be nitpick but won't. Sure I read the script before the movie. I would have liked to have seen some of the cut scenes put in, but I have faith that some, most if not all will make it into the DVD. My thinking is that the scenes either were not completely finished for GL to put in. Or, he thought they didn't help with the pace of the movie. Regardless, what was there was plenty.

Cameos by GL himself, John Knoll, Nick Galliard and so on.

Catch the Millenium Falcon??? It's in there too!

Much was tied up, if not everything. But hey, that's what our own minds are for. Use your imagination and fill in the gaps. Perhaps those questions will be answered in future novels or the TV series. But, remember when we were kids. We filled in the story. I remember well, playing out the further adventures of Luke Skywalker with my toys. Or retelling the Battle of Hoth using rubber bands to shoot down the advancing snowtroopers.

14 times and still going. I plan on seeing it at least another 2-4 times this weekend. My goal is a minimum 20 times while in theaters and this movie delivered well enough for me that I will not only meet that goal, but probably exceed it!

MTFBWY!!!!
-Sal

plasticfetish
05-24-2005, 02:27 PM
I saw it 14 times over the four days from the midnight premiere til 5pm on Sunday.Man... what a tool you are!

Rappertuniewa
05-24-2005, 02:59 PM
There was a good deal of horrendously written dialogue, and way too much cheap humor, especially towards the beginning.

I agree that Grievous should have either been much better developed as a character, or left out of the film, because he's a cool character, but nothing about him is explained at all, and he's defeated so quickly, it just seems pointless.

The love scenes between anakin and padme are just horrible.

I loved watching Hayden burn. I hate him.

Would have liked to have seen a little more of Alderaan, since all we've seen of it is about a 2 second shot in this film, maybe a cool flyby kind of thing like with the Falcon on Bespin in Empire Strikes Back special edition.

I enjoyed most of the second half of the film, and i'd definitely rank it the best of the prequels, but still can't compete with the Origional Trilogy.

JimJamBonds
05-24-2005, 03:51 PM
I give it a 5, the movie moves along nicely with no 'down time' sure there are some parts in dialog that we'd all like to make some changes to but is there any movie you wouldn't want to do that to? Great action and effects, all the way around a great flick! Also kudos to Ewen, he was great!

JJB

Ji'dai
05-24-2005, 06:35 PM
I gave Revenge of the Sith a '2'. The film is not terrible but it's not terribly good either. Certainly less than average (3); yet maybe on par with or slighty below The Phantom Menace. Attack of the Clones would get a 3.5 on this scale from me.

I like computer generated special effects but their overuse is beginning to interfere with the enjoyment of these films. I have this complaint with many films that employ these types of effects, not just Star Wars. Some scenes are such a blur that it's hard to discern what is happening on screen. It's almost gotten bad enough where I'd like to see some effects shots employing the Matrix-style slo-motion elastic time, where the action in a scene is almost completely stopped and we see all the different things that are going on at that moment in time. At least it allows the audience to reestablish a frame of reference when a computer generated scene is moving too quickly. Almost have to wait for the home video release to play "freeze frame fun" to discern what the hell is going on in some sequences.

Palpatine's use of Padme as leverage over Anakin to coerce him to the Dark Side wasn't effective for me. Anakin and Padme's relationship never seemed to go deeper than just superficial words of endearment. The lack of character development is also a problem here since I never really connected and identified with them as a couple. So when Anakin, Padme, and/or their relationship is threatened I didn't feel any threat of loss myself. Although Anakin looks up to the Chancellor, it was still strange that he was so gullible, taking Palpatine's offer at his word. If he was such a cunning warrior, I would think Anakin would see through Palpatine's gambit. Anakin receives an easy solution to his problem conveniently offered when it's most needed, a sure sign of a trap. If it's too good to be true, then it probably is. Then to see Anakin suddenly falling to his knees in supplication was incredibly strange. It's almost as if Lucas got tired of writing, so he just jumped ahead to this point. His rush to finish the story really began to show through in the last reel.

I thought the duel during the Chancellor's arrest was also clumsily done. Here are three Masters who know they are confronting a Sith Lord and each one of them quickly goes out like a punk. I wish there had been a more drawn out duel with the Jedi holding their own at least for a time. Had that happened, Palpatine's victory against Yoda would have been more plausible. We would've seen him take out three Jedi Masters in a hard won victory previously, so Yoda's eventual defeat would be easier to accept.

Padme's death... :frus:

I was also disappointed in the Kashyyyk battle, just way too short. I didn't think Chewbacca's presence was necessary in the film. The Order 66 montage was interesting but not enough was shown. Only Ki-Adi-Mundi really stands out in my mind, with his hurt, betrayed expression conveying through his last stand on that bridge.

I suppose ROTS is typical of the other two prequels; the film is very superficial with no depth or substance. Lucas just gives us glimpses of what's below the surface to get us salivating then he takes it away. I guess we're just a bunch of Pavlovian dogs to the bearded one.

Tycho
05-24-2005, 07:47 PM
I gave it a 5! Revenge of the Sith was outstanding!

It was the first time I cried in a SW movie since ESB (Code 66 slaughter scene and Luke crying as his mother died).

The rest of my review is in the E3 Spoilers "So now that you've seen it..." thread.

But I've gone 6 times and plan on seeing it again later this week - maybe after JediMasterSal pushes past 20 viewings :D

Seriously, I could see myself going once or twice a week right now. This movie hooks you in and keeps you there. You never want it to end. (Note: the best way to do that is to bring Episode 4 in a portable DVD player along with you).

But I've been seriously impressed. This may be my favorite SW movie of all time. ESB and ROTJ are up to compete with it at the moment.

Darth Kev
05-24-2005, 08:37 PM
I think what happened for me was that I began reading the novel adaptation by Matthew Stover. I only made it about halfway through because the writing is horrendous. That's when I realized that the movie was going to be awesome, because I know that Lucas writes ten times better than that, even if he is often lacking. Perhaps that was the plan...

The Flash Gordon "digital" comment earlier in the thread was right on. As the OT was given the description of a "space opera" that is exactly what I expected. "A space opera." It's a soap opera for all of us sci-fi geeks. There's lust, greed, conniving, etc.

I went in, sat down, cleared my head and let it unfold before me, taking it for what it was. It wasn't Lord of the Rings, it wasn't A Beautiful Mind, It wasn't The Ten Commandments. It was Star Wars, or at least as close as you can come in light of 20 some-odd years between Sith an the OT.

If Bonham was still alive and Zeppelin was still together, could they put out as good an album today as, say Led Zeppelin II or Physical Graffiti? Could the Beatles put out an album as good as or better than Abbey Road if they were all alive and still together today?? I highly doubt it.

Every artist reaches a high point where his work can get no better, and he will almost never reach that pinnacle again. George Lucas is an artist. EP III was great. It was his 'In Through the Out Door' to his 'Led Zeppelin II.'

As soon as an artist has that high point, everyone compares the rest of their work to it, which is neither fair to the artist, nor to the people who like/enjoy it for what it is.

Everyone wanted a list of things to happen in this film. I wanted one thing... for it to just be good. (and to see Alderaan). I got what I wanted out of it.

bobafrett
05-24-2005, 10:22 PM
I give it a four. I was a little let down, but overall thought it was pretty good.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
05-24-2005, 10:40 PM
I liked most of ROTS, and with high expectations in the anticipation of the movie, I wasn't disappointed. Still the movie is not without its faults, some major:

a) The love scenes between Padme and Anakin. I cringed in AOTC and ditto for ROTS. Hayden seems very hammy in his delivery and there were parts in which I had to close my eyes. The dialogue was once again painful to the ears, maybe Jett Lucas wrote them? A little sidenote, did anyone notice the one scene in where the normally lovely Natalie Portman looks like she was beaten with an ugly stick?--I think it was the hair-brushing sequence.

b) R2-D2 is a brave little droid with a quirky personality, not a superhero. I thought his save the day sequence was a bit far-fetched.

c) Timing Issues: If you blinked you missed much of Kashyyyk, Grevious' role, to your average viewer, wasn't fully explained or developed and Dooku's placement was rather abrupt. Granted in a saga like Star Wars, time is precious considering all that needs to be squeezed in or answered in two and a half hours, but I was a bit disappointed in those elements.


The positives:

a) Yoda - a fountain of wisdom, is he. Even though he had the wool pulled over his eyes by Palpatine, his presence in whatever scene he is in, commands respect.

b) Mustafar - a fitting planet to hold the battle scene between Obi-Wan and Anakin. The fight itself didn't disappoint either.

c) The hunting down of the Jedi - I sensed everyone in the theatre audience around me felt generally saddened during this sequence, as if they were watching the death of a loved one. Kinda brings a tear to your eye after you watch the younglings scene. Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi makes me want to punch Hayden Christensen across the face if ever I meet him.

d) Bail Organa - Jimmy Smits did a fine job in his performance of Bail. Too bad he wasn't utilized much in AOTC.

For a Star Wars movie, it gets a 4 out of 5 rating, not quite as good as any of the originals, but the best of the prequels, and a 3 rating for a picture overall.

Kidhuman
05-25-2005, 12:58 AM
I loved it. It was everything I expected it to be. The Anakin mind twisted in 200 directions, the choices he made, the battles, a lot more intense and quick style. They say when you go out, do it while you're on top, Lucas has done it with ROTS

ktownboss
05-25-2005, 01:08 AM
I thought Revenge of the Sith was awesome! I have read quite a few of the other replies in this thread, and I even agree with some of them. But overall, this new movie fits in with other movies and answers a lot of questions. I guess if I have any complaints was the whole formation of the rebellion with Mon Mothma scene that was probably deleted for time constrant (I read the book before seeing the movie). There are always comments about the "cardboard characters" etc- but there was a bit of that in the original trilogy as well. I believe Obi-Wan and Palpatine were well portrayed in the film. Many fans wanted this film to be very dark, etc- but if it were any darker it just wouldn't work with the other five films when viewed in any order- either prequels then original or vice versa. It would have been just too different. My only real concern is this, and this could almost be a thread of it's own:

If the Clones killed the Jedi, and Ewoks killed the Clones- could the Ewoks kill the Jedi? Now that's scary...

I just really enjoyed the movie and I've seen it three times over the weekend. I guess some people might say that I would probably like any Star Wars movie no matter what was wrong with it, but I would disagree. Return of the Jedi still makes me cringe.

Deoxyribonucleic
05-25-2005, 01:26 AM
I gave it a 4. I've seen it twice, the first time I was too tired and the second time I went with my Mom and we enjoyed it very much! I just don't like the greivous character...at all! Waste of good movie space.

Rappertuniewa
05-25-2005, 02:19 AM
Hayden seems very hammy in his delivery and there were parts in which I had to close my eyes. The dialogue was once again painful to the ears, maybe Jett Lucas wrote them?

hahaha, I love the suggestion that Jett wrote the dialogue, it would make so much sense, and make me alot less dissapointed in GL.

Scackmgack
05-25-2005, 10:48 AM
I gave it a 5, and I agree that this is the best film out of all six, for the reason that I was more emotionally-invested than in any of the other six films. There was much more drama in this film than in any others, with Empire being a close second.

Empire was my favorite up until RotS, but even when I was a little kid watching Empire I was never as drawn into the film as I was when I saw RotS. Even though I knew what was going to happen, I was still tense as hell the whole time, knowing that this other side of the SW universe Lucas had introduced us to, the time of the Republic, was going to come to a swift and brutal end before the end of the film.

A lot of the criticisms of the film in this thread are based on "I wanted to see this," and "I wanted to see that." Those are fanboy criticisms, not film criticisms. I am a fanboy too - but I also know how to look at a film as a film. I don't think it is useful in a critical discussion of a film to say what you wished you had seen; better to focus on analyzing what WAS there.

But to respond to that point, you DID get your character development - in the Clone Wars cartoon, in the Dark Horse Comics Republic series, in novels - Star Wars is a multimedia entity at this point. Star Wars is just too big to develop all the characters we see. We don't have time to get to know Plo Koon and Aayla Secura and all the other myriad Jedi we have come to know through the PT. Even if the film was three hours long there wouldn't have been time. There was just too much to do.

If Lucas had started Episode I as the beginning of the Clone Wars, Episode II as the height of the war, and Episode III the way it was, perhaps there would have been more time to develop and get to know these characters, but that's not how he did it, so there wasn't.

Yes, General Greivous wasn't developed terribly-well in the film - but neither were Admiral Piett or Boba Fett from the OT, and most of us love those characters. I think the mistake is in thinking of Greivous as a principal character. I don't think he was. Greivous was supporting cast, and only served as a plot point, not as a real "character" in the sense of us needing to have any sort of personal investment in him. All he needed to be was a threat - and I think the most valid criticism of Greivous was that he never seemed threatening to me, especially with that ridiculous voice. He was more threatening in the Clone Wars series than he was in the film, especially with all that coughing.

I think RotS is the best of all the Star Wars films because it is a tragedy. It has real drama. Every other film in the series is just adventure, and space-opera. Tragedy is much, much more difficult to pull off. I think anyone with an emotional investment in this universe and these characters had to feel bad when the Jedi were Purged. Sure, we did not "know" them all - but we DID know they were Jedi, and if you have been paying attention you know that says a lot about who they are as people - selfless, willing to sacrifice personal attachments, love, and family to serve a greater good. That applies to every single one of them. So when you see Ki Adi-Mundi, Aayla Secure, and Plo Koon killed, you know you are seeing good people being killed for no good reason, and that is part of the very definition of "tragic." You might need to be a little older to appreciate that, though, as we all tend to be rather cavalier towards life when we are younger, which is understandable and not a "foul" by any means.

Some people said that they didn't "believe" Anakin's turning - is that because you were looking for an easy, simple, single and concrete reason why he did it? There isn't one - and THAT is what makes it dramatic. Yes, Anakin's desire to save Padme is what starts it, but that isn't all of it. His desire for greatness, his raw ambition, his quickness to anger, and even a sense of loyalty all played their parts in his turn to the Dark Side. That is what makes it interesting. You cannot lay a finger on just one reason. Anakin had some complexity of character, and a lot of people don't seem to be appreciating that.

I admit that Lucas couldn't write an acceptable love or romantic scene if his life depended on it - the fact that he can't seem to meet anyone and keep a relationship going probably speaks to why he can't pull this off on the page, either - but that's where suspension of disbelief comes into play. You know they are married, you know they love each other, so just play along. The romance scenes were passable this time, compared to the romantic scenes in AOTC which made you want to either commit hari-kari or stab your own eyes out.

Love can make you do strange things, and even terrible things - like kneeling before Palaptine and becoming his new apprentice.

The only time the screen is absolutely flooded with digital effects is during the Battle of Coruscant - but when was the last time you saw a war that looked neat and clean? The amount of f/x in that sequence is entirely appropriate to set the stage of the chaos of battle, and if you want to see what is going on, just see the film multiple times and take your eyes OFF the principles and investigate the frame. That's what I did the second time around, and it was great.

I don't think it was unreasonable that Sasee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto got killed so quickly in the duel with Palpatine - it had been a thousand years since a Sith Lord has been confronted by the Jedi. Do you honestly think they were ready for them? Windu only did as well as he did because he is the most powerful swordsman the Jedi Order had.

When I saw this film for the second time, I remained in my seat during a large portion of the closing credits, discussing it with my friend, and I said "You know, if I was going to criticize this film, I would really have to start nit-picking. This is everything it had to be - it was truly a Star Wars film, it wrapped up the PT perfectly and dovetailed into the OT just as perfectly."

I think that about says it all.

stillakid
05-25-2005, 11:32 AM
I give it a 5 :)

Ewan McGregor gives the best performance of any Star Wars film with Hayden Christensen coming in at a respectable 2nd place.


If there's any one good thing we can say about Hayden, it's that the lava damage managed to burn all that annoying cotton out of his mouth so we don't have to endure Vader touallcking ellike hees gott too mouch toounge in histh mouph. :D

bespinsecurityguard
05-25-2005, 12:21 PM
After reading the book, then seeing the movie, I am certain that Lucas cannot direct his own material, and probably cannot write it either. Books are usually better and this is a stellar example. Instead of dwelling on the laughable moments that weere to be serious and the "funny" moments that were anthting but, all I will say is if you left the movie asking for clarity of any point in the film than the director did not do his job! READ THE BOOK, ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED AND YOU MIGHT LIKE STAR WARS AGAIN. dissappointing.

VaderhitsJarjar
05-25-2005, 01:06 PM
I Loved the Movie Because It confirms everything that was foreshadowed in I, and II.
In that GL did a fantastic Job!

Though I hated most if the droid dialogue - I did enjoy the droid stating "your welcome" to Greivous.

I gave the Movie a 5 but I struggled with the speed of the film and some edit problems. The one scene that stood out was between anakin and padmee first -we get the establishment shot of the room and then a quick zoom toward the characters but for seconds they just appear to stand and wait for "action"

I wondered if Anakin truly loved Padme. He acted like a highschool teen angst pro working their relationship for whatever benifited his ego the most. Was she the replacement for his mother (moral guidance)?

If this is what GL wanted us to believe then he did a masterful job and I believe the character of Anakin was supposed to be flat, emotionless, almost robotic. Either Hayden did what GL wanted or GL found an actor who would at his best give GL what he needed.

What I (and everybody else) wanted to see was more Vader. Even if it was Vader Reviewing a parade of storm troopers or chasing Yoda's ship through an asteroid field. We didn't want to hear Him scream "nooooooooooo"
echo
echo
We wanted to see the lifeless face stare off into space "whoo hawww hooo hawww.
Though the sound effects of his mask being placed and sealed on his face made my spine tingle.

I believe when we see all of the deleated scenes the movie will flow a bit better. I felt that a lot of good stuff was left out due to time constraints. probably many establishment shots, battle scenes, clone troopers running into tree limbs and knocking their helmets off, Jar Jar looking baffled etc.

I still love the fact that it is all jar jar's fault. he did call for the vote allowing Palpy more power in the senate -

Darth Meow
05-25-2005, 01:39 PM
Revenge of the Sith was truly awesome. I just wish it had been a little longer to allow for some development of several of the subplots. Liam Neeson should have been there; C3PO should have had his little funny scene at the end, bragging on the children before Bail Organa ordered his memory wiped; and Darth Vader's table should have exploded--along with everything else in the room, except for the Emperor, of course. Anakin's anguish should have been more visible. Perhaps we'll see all this in the Special Edition yet to come. Oh what a tragic and glorious story you have fashioned, Mr. Lucas. Thank you--and thank you, again.:)

1138
05-25-2005, 09:48 PM
Wow. It's over. I saw SW when it was re-released in 1979 and it is the first movie I ever remember seeing, as well as one of my earliest memories. From that point on, just about all I cared about was SW, SW toys, and being as much of a Jedi-like person that I could be. (I think I've failed in that respect a number of times.) Heck, I even liked the Ewoks and enjoyed Jedi more than Empire. I was 8, after all.
So, ROTS was a big deal for me. It's not just the end of a movie series - you wait over 20 years to get the last piece of the story puzzle, and it takes on a significance greater than it probably deserves. It's funny how I, even now, find myself relating to these movies. They are, after all, parables about good and evil, right and wrong, hope, redemption, politics and human relationships. And with the pressure and choices a person faces in ones adult life, I've now found myself relating to Anakin more than Luke and still hoping to someday be like Obi-Wan.
I couldn't say anything that anyone else hasn't already said, be any more critical or find any praise that hasn't already been acknowledged. I, like everyone else, wishes the new movies had been better done. (Of course, I feel that about Jedi, too, and really wish Speilberg had directed it. Of course...Temple of Doom came out about that time, too, so....) I wish Lucas WOULD have been technologically hindered enough that effects necessarilly took a back-seat to story and character. I wish he would have sought help with the writing, a LOT of help, and had cast actors (excluding McGregor, who saves the series.) capable of overcoming a bad, bad, BAD director of actors, which was a criticism of our original three heroes - "His two directions are "Faster - more intense." ."
And yet, I'm happy. I can't help but wonder if I will be an 80 year old fan of the movies, still trying to find the perfect lightsaber (That may be the way I die - "Jeeze, why did we let Grandpa have a lightsaber, he's to old to be fooling with one of those things.) or if something else will take it's place. I wonder how long the fandom will last? Will there still be conventions in 2055? Or will the world have forgotten Star Wars? I understand there is to be a T.V. series, something my mother predicted in 1981 and I thought was an absurd notion. I shake my head and hope that they're not awful. I would rather the series go out with a bang rather than a wimper. Maybe our obsessive - compulsive creator will tinker with the movies until HE dies, so that we're watching ROTS version 10 (The "I love YOU more scene" cut out, added back with digital emotions and lines, cut out again, replaced with a scene from the series, then cut out again.) And yet, a part of me has to smile and think that it all just proves the Force wil be with us for a long, long time.

Darth Deering
05-25-2005, 10:17 PM
I loved it. It was just what this type of movie should be... fun. Well, I guess it was not fun on the actual story line side of things, but you know, fun in that it was all action and great effects. There really weren't any surprises, so that kind of bit, but I suppose we all knew where it was giong. I almost think they could have had the confrontation between Ani and Obi more towards the middle of the film so there could be more Vader and Jedi hunting. I just hate when I spend $10 on a movie and it sucks. That's what I mean when I say this was a fun movie. I was entertained and definitely felt as if my money was well spent. Whew! That's all. :classic:

Darth Deering
05-25-2005, 10:24 PM
Wow. It's over. I saw SW when it was re-released in 1979 and it is the first movie I ever remember seeing, as well as one of my earliest memories. From that point on, just about all I cared about was SW, SW toys, and being as much of a Jedi-like person that I could be. (I think I've failed in that respect a number of times.) Heck, I even liked the Ewoks and enjoyed Jedi more than Empire. I was 8, after all.
So, ROTS was a big deal for me. It's not just the end of a movie series - you wait over 20 years to get the last piece of the story puzzle, and it takes on a significance greater than it probably deserves. It's funny how I, even now, find myself relating to these movies. They are, after all, parables about good and evil, right and wrong, hope, redemption, politics and human relationships. And with the pressure and choices a person faces in ones adult life, I've now found myself relating to Anakin more than Luke and still hoping to someday be like Obi-Wan.
I couldn't say anything that anyone else hasn't already said, be any more critical or find any praise that hasn't already been acknowledged. I, like everyone else, wishes the new movies had been better done. (Of course, I feel that about Jedi, too, and really wish Speilberg had directed it. Of course...Temple of Doom came out about that time, too, so....) I wish Lucas WOULD have been technologically hindered enough that effects necessarilly took a back-seat to story and character. I wish he would have sought help with the writing, a LOT of help, and had cast actors (excluding McGregor, who saves the series.) capable of overcoming a bad, bad, BAD director of actors, which was a criticism of our original three heroes - "His two directions are "Faster - more intense." ."
And yet, I'm happy. I can't help but wonder if I will be an 80 year old fan of the movies, still trying to find the perfect lightsaber (That may be the way I die - "Jeeze, why did we let Grandpa have a lightsaber, he's to old to be fooling with one of those things.) or if something else will take it's place. I wonder how long the fandom will last? Will there still be conventions in 2055? Or will the world have forgotten Star Wars? I understand there is to be a T.V. series, something my mother predicted in 1981 and I thought was an absurd notion. I shake my head and hope that they're not awful. I would rather the series go out with a bang rather than a wimper. Maybe our obsessive - compulsive creator will tinker with the movies until HE dies, so that we're watching ROTS version 10 (The "I love YOU more scene" cut out, added back with digital emotions and lines, cut out again, replaced with a scene from the series, then cut out again.) And yet, a part of me has to smile and think that it all just proves the Force wil be with us for a long, long time.
Nice post. You said it well. That's really very much how I feel. I love Star Wars because it's part of who I am and how I grew up. Even if it sucks it's still great to me.

2-1B
05-26-2005, 01:57 AM
If there's any one good thing we can say about Hayden, it's that the lava damage managed to burn all that annoying cotton out of his mouth so we don't have to endure Vader touallcking ellike hees gott too mouch toounge in histh mouph. :D

"We" ? :confused:

JawaJoe
05-26-2005, 04:42 AM
Just saw ROTS earlier tonite. I really had my hopes up after hearing other peoples reviews and the fact that the majority of movie critics actually gave it high marks. Did lucas pay em off? To me it was just a ton of eye candy clinging to a very weak plot. Never before have I sat thru a sw movie asking myself they cant be serious? Sorry for nit picking but ive got to get this off my chest. Feel free to correct me as I've only seen the film once and may have missed somthing. Okay here goes:

1) Anakin kills dooku because "he's too dangerous to live". We know its wrong but believeable because Anakin already pulled this on a bunch of sand people. Later Mace uses this same argument "he's too dangerous to live" on palpatine. Sorry i had a hard time swallowing a senior member of the jedi council killing an unarmed person no matter who they are. Its just wrong.

2) Padme looks freaking hideous in her first scene. I actually cringed in my seat every time that giant head was on the screen.

3) General Grieveous we're made to believe is this monster who hunts jedi for sport and proudly displays their lightsabers as trophys. Okay who did he hunt? Who did he kill? Sure there was the cartoon but I seriously doubt everybody who was at the theater tonite has seen that. Bottom line he served no purpose whatsoever and shouldnt have been in the film.

4)The kill jedi order sequence. Maybe if these were your ordinary run of the mill jedi id have bought it but these guys were JEDI MASTERS. No way they should have gone down so easily.

5) Obi Wan. Yeah we know Anakin is more powerful than Obi Wan. But what kind of JEDI MASTER gets saved by his apprentice not once, not twice, but ten times. If I were Anakin id have asked the council for a new master =/

6) The whole unbeliveable love story thing. Seriously to this day when I watch my AOTC dvd i have to fast forward thru it. Its that bad.

7) The much hyped wookie sequence. Way too short. Just a way to get chewbacca some screen time and sell some toys.

8) No Mon Mothma and the birth of the rebellion. Lets hope its on the dvd.

9) The multi color clone fest. I thought color denoted rank. Did everybody get a promotion since AOTC? A lot of generic clones wouldve been better, just looks more stormtroopery.

10) The scene where palpatine announces the empire and Padme whines something about democracy dying with a cheer. I thought she was a senator why didnt she do something?

11) 3PO gets his memory wiped but not R2. What kind of sense does that make??

Okay now to stuff I did like:

1) Haydn's acting was much better.

2) Yoda. Loved the part were he took out the 2 royal guards.

3) Beru actually looked kinda hot this time.

4) Jimmy Smitts. Hated him in AOTC. Thought he was pretty decent in sith.

2-1B
05-26-2005, 05:05 AM
Joe -

John Knoll asked the same thing about Mace, but the argument was made that he DID go there with the intention of arresting the Chancellor but after busting out some Lightning, Mace decided there was too great a risk in keeping him alive. So, I'm not sure how you can consider Palps an unarmed person ? :confused:

Threepio should get his mind wiped, he talks way too much (I would prefer if his scenes were cut down in every movie but that's another thread lol ) and personally I LOVE the idea of Artoo staying aware of everything, I trust that he can keep a secret. ;)

VaderhitsJarjar
05-26-2005, 11:53 AM
True, there is a code for Jedi Combat - but never-the-less they do tend to fight to the death. Mace was faced with the overwhelming knowledge that he and the jedi had been duped worse than Elmer fudd when talking to olde buggs with the yellow wig. He had a chance to put an end to the Sith once and for all. Though the movie hints that the Sith force - almost supernatural - would find another host.

Remember Yoda basically tells ObiWan to find and kill Anakin. Yoda wasnt planning on taking palpy in either.

Anakin was faced with a different situation. He had defeated Dooku quite masterfully and should have used Dooku for information. I loved Dooku's look of realization that he was yet another pawn in palpy's transformation to power.

Though I also believe Palpy instructed Dooku not to kill Anakin. He toys with him. Tells Anakin he sensed anger and fear.

ok lunch time im done

trandoshan666
05-26-2005, 01:21 PM
I gave it a 5 because I have thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I like it a little more each time I see it, and plan on seeing it many more times. It's not perfect by any means, but it's still Star Wars and I still love it.

kool-aid killer
05-26-2005, 03:34 PM
I gave it a four, i really enjoyed the movie despite its holes and lack of explaining some things. There were good parts and bad parts, i didnt expect any big changes from the past two so i dont feel much, if any, disappointment. I suppose the novel will help fill in some of the blanks too. I plan on watching it a couple of more times before it leaves the theaters.

LusiferSam
05-26-2005, 06:21 PM
Having just gotten home from m first viewing of ROTS, I'll give it a four. I when with the goal of being entertain, and I was. To me that's the most important thing. Before saying more about the movie itself I need some to let it sink in and think about it.

Rogue II
05-27-2005, 11:03 PM
Well, I finally saw it. Despite reading some good reviews, I had low expectations for this film. ROTS didn't even live up those. This film is easily the 5th best of the series.

By the way, that was possibly the worst "NOoOooOOoo!!!!" of all time.

I will admit that I liked TPM the more I saw it, but liked ATOC less every time I watched it. Maybe after viewing ROTS a couple more times I will like it better.

There were some cool things in the film, but overall, I was still dissapointed. I give it a 3.

darko666
05-28-2005, 01:13 AM
i gave the movie a 3. and thats after seeing it 5 times. i like the movie, it's fun to watch, but it has the moments of "am i enjoying this scene" or "that could have been done better". the deleted scenes will make the movie better. they should have never been taken out of the movie, since they help flesh out the story better. the funny thing is i am now enjoying episode I more than the other 2 movies. some of you may know one reason why i like this movie more, but if you actually watch it, it feels like a star wars movie. it just takes a while for it to register into your head. unless, it's just me.

but as for ROTS, it felt like it tried to make up for the other two movies lacking plot to get you into ROTS. the other movies seem to be their own movies, without having anything to do with ROTS. thats how i see it. it was rushed, and due to the bad editing, you can plainly see that. they killed off Grievous to quick, just like they do every cool villian in the prequels. i just don't see the point in creating a cool villian and then have them killed off in the first movie they star in. and Dooku doesn't count, because he actually was a horrible character IMO. it should have been Maul in all 3 movies. but i already stated my thoughts on that in another thread. i loved the movie when i saw it the second time, but then just saw the flaws on every other viewing. but complaining will do nothing to change the movie. so i will just enjoy it for what it is.

BigBuck71
05-28-2005, 11:05 PM
I have only seen ROTS once...so far. I saw it at the first midnight showing down here, in Covington, LA, near Slidell, LA where I live. I want to see it a second time at a different, better theater. Overall I was very happy with it. I liked the darker, more serious tone of the movie. Yeah, it is similar in that way to "The Empire Strikes Back" but not as good. I was expecting to see some scenes that were rumored to be there, that were not there. I see now that there will be some deleted scenes on the DVD. That's good to know. I was unhappy with how quickly Anakin turned to the dark side, and how the movie felt "rushed". It seemed to be speeding towards the unveiling of Vader at the end. Don't get me wrong guys/girls. I've been a life-long Star Wars fan since first seeing Episode IV in theaters in 1977, when I was 6. I will always love Star Wars and it will have a special place in my heart, and my life. :D

bigbarada
05-29-2005, 03:01 PM
I gave ROTS a 2.

The more I think about it the more I believe that Ep1 was a better film in a stand-alone sense. Ep3 really had no pay-off after ten years of anticipation (dating back to when Lucas announced his return to Star Wars in the 1995 THX video release). Darth Vader's reveal was probably sillier than I could have possibly imagined.

For me the only bright spot to the movie was the opening sequence, primarily the slapstick interaction of all the droids. I don't care what anyone says, I liked the Battle Droids and Vulture Droids new voices. Although I didn't like the total lack of music in the opening battle sequence, it made the movie feel rushed and unfinished.

Most annoying of all were the Jedi. We had Obi-Wan saying stuff like "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes." Obviously unaware that he is stating an absolute! With logic like that it's no wonder the Jedi were doomed for destruction. Only a fool tries to pass off wishy-washy, pluralistic nonsense as wisdom.

plasticfetish
05-29-2005, 09:07 PM
The more I think about it the more I believe that Ep1 was a better film in a stand-alone sense.I've come to like Ep. I more and more over time. Mostly because I'm now more aware of what a struggle it was to get it made -- with all of the limitations like time restraints, budget, having to create new technology, etc.

In a way, I can see what you're saying about the pay-off vs. anticipation.

For me the only bright spot to the movie was the opening sequence, primarily the slapstick interaction of all the droids.I liked this also, and I think it was handled well. Probably out of all three prequels, I think it worked the best in Ep. III.

With logic like that it's no wonder the Jedi were doomed for destruction. Only a fool tries to pass off wishy-washy, pluralistic nonsense as wisdom.I think that this may be intentional. I don't think that the Jedi are truly without flaw -- Yoda says so in Ep. II -- so Palpatine takes advantage of those flaws. Would things have turned out differently if Mace Windu had decided to capture Palpatine and bring him to trial, instead of trying to kill him? What if the Jedi had been more honest about their limitations and problems with the Sith all along? What if they'd gone before the Senate and said, "Hey, here's the problem..."?

They're guilty of pride really.

stillakid
05-29-2005, 11:47 PM
I've come to like Ep. I more and more over time. Mostly because I'm now more aware of what a struggle it was to get it made -- with all of the limitations like time restraints, budget, having to create new technology, etc.

Gee whiz, that sounds more like a description of Episode IV. ;)

plasticfetish
05-30-2005, 02:49 AM
Gee whiz, that sounds more like a description of Episode IV. ;)Yeah! Well... in a sense they're very much the same. I've started to wonder, if digital screenings had been widely available at the time Ep. I was released, would the "newness" of the event have been more important?

A great deal of the thrill that came from seeing ANH for the first time, came from the fact that we were seeing something very unique. Many of the "flaws" were overlooked by the general public because we were so blown away by how Lucas had put a new spin on the whole Sci-Fi film idea.

If the "newness" of digital cinema was there to mask (some of) the flaws in Episode I, would it have been more widely liked by the public?

I've always looked at ANH as a kind of really happy mistake. It was a hit because it was something new, at just the right time, and with just the right kinds of actors -- the right personalities -- to carry it all off. Somewhere in there is the ingredient that the prequels seem to be lacking just enough of to keep them from being as much of a social phenomenon as the original trilogy. I like the prequels, and I like ROTS very much (I really do) but the three of them just don't have the same "magic" that the OT had... back in the day.

stillakid
05-30-2005, 12:00 PM
Yeah! Well... in a sense they're very much the same. I've started to wonder, if digital screenings had been widely available at the time Ep. I was released, would the "newness" of the event have been more important?

A great deal of the thrill that came from seeing ANH for the first time, came from the fact that we were seeing something very unique. Many of the "flaws" were overlooked by the general public because we were so blown away by how Lucas had put a new spin on the whole Sci-Fi film idea.

If the "newness" of digital cinema was there to mask (some of) the flaws in Episode I, would it have been more widely liked by the public?

I've always looked at ANH as a kind of really happy mistake. It was a hit because it was something new, at just the right time, and with just the right kinds of actors -- the right personalities -- to carry it all off. Somewhere in there is the ingredient that the prequels seem to be lacking just enough of to keep them from being as much of a social phenomenon as the original trilogy. I like the prequels, and I like ROTS very much (I really do) but the three of them just don't have the same "magic" that the OT had... back in the day.

hmm. Interesting idea. Here's my take on it. First off, Star Wars (the original) came along at a time when our society was weary of an unjust war and of corrupt politics. Society was ready for fun again...and Star Wars offered an escape back to the age old tales of a damsel in distress...of the hero having to enter the dragon's lair to rescue her and then slay the dragon. Well, in the original film, the hero blows the lair up and the dragon escapes, but you get the idea. :D Anyway, it was a way to express that the little guy could overcome the monster. The problems of the world seemed so big and out of control that to see a movie in which the farmboy overcame all the obstacles placed in front of him gave people hope. Then a few years later, Ronald Reagan was elected and he evoked all those references to Star Wars (Star Wars shield, Evil Empire) to bring the film to life.

Fast forward to today. Arguably, the Prequels are attempting to illustrate how an apathetic population can allow a bad guy to take over their government with their full consent and knowledge. Well, it's hard to preach that to the very people who have their eyes shut to the truth. Just look at the last two elections which may very possibly have been corrupted. Yet nobody seems to care enough to call the Bush Administration on it. We have evil political advisors like Karl Rove and Ann Coulter spouting out pure lies while a homophobic population drinks their Starbucks. So the difference between now and then is that in 1977, the country had already been through Vietnam and Watergate and was licking it's wounds on the other side. Today, we're still in the thick of it and most of the population wouldn't agree with what I've just said because they wouldn't want to see themselves as the blind and deaf Senate in ROTS cheering the creation of an Empire. This is what spurred Padme's line about the death of a Republic. We won't know for a few years, but it is very possible that the United States is being led astray right now right under our noses.

So the difference is timing...well, that and the OT had far better writing. ;)

2-1B
05-30-2005, 01:04 PM
stillakid, you almost sound like you're defending the prequels a little bit ! Almost. :p

plasticfetish
05-30-2005, 01:49 PM
So the difference is timing...well, that and the OT had far better writing. ;)Yup... I agree. That, and I just think that the main actors had more charisma.

jjreason
05-30-2005, 04:32 PM
I just think the "newness" of Star Wars had worn off by the time the Prequels were even conceived. Heck, even by the time ROJ rolled around, it was wearing off. I remember being slightly disappointed during the opening of ROJ that all the Empire could come up with was another Death Star (though my disappointment quickly went away). My interest in the toys was at an all-time SW low just a couple of months after ROJ left theatres - partially because the GI Joe toys were starting to show up, and partially because the story was over.

ROTS is an extremely strong finish to the PT, as shown by the continuing interest nearly 2 weeks after it's release. I saw it again last night, at 10:10pm, and the place was nearly half full. Doesn't sound great, but I can't imagine ANYONE showing up for any other movie on a Sunday night at that time outside the SW set - except maybe the LOTR crowd for Return of the King.

I think ROTS is far and away the best piece of the PT, but it's still too early for me to say whether or not it will sneak into 3rd (or possibly even 2nd) place on my all-time rankings of the SW films. I think the climactic sequence between Anakin and Obi Wan is of the finest quality - the equal of Vader's Redemption and Han's visit with the Carbon Chamber.

It's too bad that in what must amount to nearly 3hrs of screen time (over the course of Episodes 1-3), even with my fondness for Natalie Portman's acting in other movies, I didn't find myself caring for Padme at all - at any point - even in the least.

stillakid
05-31-2005, 12:11 AM
stillakid, you almost sound like you're defending the prequels a little bit ! Almost. :p

Not at all. :D But I can see what George was intending to do despite his failure to actually achieve it. And again, there are indeed "moments" of greatness within the Prequel films, but moments do not a great story make. What George has always seemed to have is the ability to draw together the timeless themes and archetypes and wrap them up in a tasty package that touches audiences. What he can't do by himself is combine the ingredients in the best way possible. For that, he needs help. He has admitted so much, however he made the choice to ignore that fact for the most part this time around. Which is why we're here asking all sorts of questions that should never be asked by an audience. Those are the sorts of things that the writer or the editor (literary) asks before a frame of film is shot. That process didn't happen this time.

JediTricks
05-31-2005, 02:58 AM
Just to point out, I saw both types of digital projection with Episode I when they came out, and neither measured up, so I think that would have hampered the film more than helped it. The DLP was certainly the superior process, but wasn't even to the level it is at today (which still cannot match the motion and smoothness of film projection), and the display was broken up into 12 sections to accomodate the curvature of the screen. The other system was much worse, like a big MPEG downloaded off the net, the idea was that it would be transmitted into theaters via satellite.

2-1B
05-31-2005, 03:28 AM
assuming the film is in good shape. :p

at this one particular theater, there is an annoying glitch in the film right as Palps and Yoda are raising up on the Chancellor's Box into the Senate . . . terrible damage was done to that print. :(

plasticfetish
05-31-2005, 02:34 PM
The DLP was certainly the superior process, but wasn't even to the level it is at today (which still cannot match the motion and smoothness of film projection)I dunno. I haven't seen the film version of ROTS yet, and I haven't watched the DLP version a second time, but I was amazed by the crispness and the spotless, glitchless quality of it.

and the display was broken up into 12 sections to accomodate the curvature of the screen. The other system was much worse, like a big MPEG downloaded off the netYeah... that sounds lame. So I've gotta wonder, should Lucas have waited a little longer with these 3 films to let the theater thechnology catch up? Should he have used another or other films as his lab rats for DLP? (Given himself a little longer to write the scripts also...)

JediTricks
05-31-2005, 08:02 PM
Texas Instruments has run a lot of films past the DLP since its inception, I think TPM was the first only because it was around the time of the release (it was a month after the release, specifically) and Lucas wanted to see it this way to push his vision onto theater owners, if he hadn't pushed TI into doing it in June of '99, I'm sure they would have gotten the DLP system into home and theater buyers' minds within a year anyway.

As for the quality of the image with ROTS, I have seen it once digital and a second time film, and the motion in digital I found not as smooth as the film, and there was too much non-anti-aliasing (I don't know what this is actually called, it looks like an animated GIF image), pixelated edges of sharp elements, the SW logo, the Lucasfilm logo, other stuff, it was nowhere as big an issue as in '99, but it was still there to me and the folks I was with.

Mandalorian Candidat
06-06-2005, 06:31 PM
I gave it a three. I was let down with how the whole movie unfolded. I guess after wondering how the whole thing would end (or would it be how the OT would start?) for 20 years or so my vision was grossly different from GLu's.

My reaction of disappointment is based on my thrill level upon leaving the theater. The other two movies (even TPM) left me on a good high, but this one was such a downer. Granted, I knew it would be dark but to copy a line from Seinfeld, there's good dark and bad dark. The whole series is supposed to be an homage to the movie serials from 50-60 years ago where even when the bad guys win (or seem to win) you enjoy the whole experience. Granted, GLu sort of deviated from this formula in the prequels but this one was so different from the other 5 that having it coupled with so much graphic death and implied death of children I couldn't get much enjoyment out of it. I also chalk it up to rushing around all day getting ready for this thing that I didn't have time to let it sink it I was about to see thee movie of movies. My wife was cranky about not getting enough sleep from her graveyard shift and the kid next to me kept jabbering and my soda had too much ice and my smuggled in Red Vines were stale.

What I didn't like, specifically:

The opening sequence humor--Too much laugh a minute action with R2 (popping out of the JSF like a warm poptart, hijinx with the BDs, etc.). A little funny business is OK but GLu was trying to turn R2 into Jackie Chan or the second coming of Jar Jar.
The quick demise of Dooku--Chris Lee has such a kick-A character. I wanted to see more on him in EP2 and we get even less this time. I realize why his part is tiny, but I didn't like how he could easily defeat OB1, yet get his A whooped even easier by Ani.

The easy death of the Jedi--I've been trying to figure out how GLu could have made it so it would have been harder to kill the Jedi, yet wipe them out just the same, and I don't have any good ideas. Yet I'm not making $1B/year like him so I expect some better writing about that. They were all whacked easily except for Mace.

Gen. Grievous--So much potential, yet totally wasted. I understand this isn't a cartoon (well, kind of seeing how 99.9% of this movie is CG) but the CW version is way more interesting and dangerous. His voice was so muffled I could barely understand him and he seemed less of a physical threat than the bodyguards who were also lame-o. That he had all those lightsabers makes me wonder if he didn't steal them off of the dead Jedi from the Geonosis arena rather than from those that he himself killed. I think they should have used the voice actor from the cartoon.

Hayden Christiansen--He was just a crummy Anakin. Not believable at all. When he pledges his allegiance to Sidious he neither seems to be evil nor reluctant, just kind of apathetic. The only time he gives some kind of emotion is when he's trying to get at OB1 after the slice and dice action on Mustafar. It almost would have been better if he'd have been just a spoiled brat cause then he'd have some emotion. The only time he was satisfying as a villian is when he puts on the suit, but at that point the only acting is being done by James Earl Jones. This brings me to the next point...

Lack of Vader scenes--We only get a couple of shots of the suited Vader, the dude everyone wanted to see. No action other than him busting up the joint with the force, which was a nice touch acutally. I was wanting him to confront OB1 post surgery so it would made known unambiguously that OB1 would know he's alive, more machine than man (twisted and evil), and that he'd be hunting after him. At least JEJ was used, but not enought IMO.

No Qui-Gon/Jedi Spirits--That Neeson was too busy to film is a bunch of crap. All GLu would need is a day to do a scene between him and OB1 w/ or w/o Yoda. It could have just been a very brief shot of them without dialogue just showing them meeting again. Remember how these movies are supposed to be like rhyming stanzas in a poem? Where the hell were the Jedi Spirits at the end? GLu missed a kick-A opportunity to show Mace, Qui-Gon, and maybe Ki-Adi-Mundi at the end with OB1 like Luke had with Yoda and Co. in ROTJ. They could have been on Tatooine watching him deliver Luke to Owen and Beru then switched to the setting suns at the very end.

Yoda not going to Dagobah--A minor point but it would have been very satisfying.

Sifo-Dyas--This was crap. I was half expecting SD to be one of the Jedi incognito, like an alias. I was thinking that it could have been Qui-Gon doing some work for Dooku on the side since QG died and Dooku bailed the Order 10 years before the OB1 Kamino visit. Dooku could have duped QG into helping make the Clones since he was QG's master and we know that QG had a history of disobedience. I think GLu should have made an attempt to explain this instead of leaving it to be explained in some EU book.

Padme's death--Another lame excuse. Having Ani directly cause her death would have been much better that the broken heart excuse. Padme isn't exactly trailer trash so why wouldn't she have been happy over having not just one but two! You'd think she'd be happy enough over their birth to want to hang around to take care of them (I take care of my kids!). Having her be in a medical emergency from the choke hold is a better resolution.

All that being said, I did like several things about the movie. Ian McDiarmid was great and had surprisingly good dialogue. I wonder if he looked at his part in the script and rewrote it or if GLu was saving up all his good writing brain cells for this one role. I thought the opening battle sequence was pretty good and the FX for the most part were well done. The little extra animation on some of the droids, like the vulture droid, was cool. The best part of the movie was Ewan McGregor. His work as an actor gets better every time I see him. I was really impressed. To me he is now OB1; not just a role for Alec Guiness.

One interesting thing, I saw the movie twice, the second time at a THX certified theater. I didn't notice any better sound, yet the print quality was crap. There were noticable jumps from one shot to another as if some of the cells had been removed. Plus it seemed slightly dirty. After only being out for one week I find it hard to believe the print was already that jacked up. I say bring on the digital action!