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View Full Version : what are these "new powers" Anakin talks about?



JediTricks
05-26-2005, 04:20 AM
Here's another one, when Padme goes to Mustafar to confront Anakin, he makes a claim about his new powers saving her, however, there's nothing in the film that seems to suggest to me that he actually HAS new powers, only that his new master promised to help him look into them. The movie makes it sound like Anakin already has these powers, not that he'll be working on getting them, and except for tapping into hate, I don't see how Anakin has anything new at all except a bad attitude and yellow eyes for no obvious reason.

My personal theory on this is that at some point in the writing process Lucas had Palpatine giving some of the knowledge to Anakin before sending him to Moosetoofar, and that not only is this the knowledge he refers to in the film, but considering not 1 but 2 different toys - the Mustafar playset and the Micro Vehicles Tantive IV/Mustafar Playset - seem to have Anakin's fate being a hand sticking out of lava rather than being burned to a crisp because... um... why exactly did Ani burst into flames? I still don't get that. Anyway, it had Anakin's hand sticking out of the lava, and for probably 30 years Lucas has been talking about Anakin going into the lava on the lava planet (see pre-ANH storyline and ROTJ pre-production stuff), so my theory is that in ROTS at some point during production Anakin is able to survive a bath in the lava because he used that partial life-saving knowledge which Palpatine had given him, but it was only partial knowledge so he was badly burned up in the process.

Anyway, so what powers is Anakin talking about to Padme, and could they be a key to a scene where Anakin went into the lava instead of quickly going from heat on his pants to engulfed in flame? For that matter, could this have been the knowledge that kept him from dying when he was burned up in the scene in the film, and if so, when did he get this knowledge?

2-1B
05-26-2005, 04:38 AM
There are no new powers. It was a con.

Yoda says that Death is a natural part of life but Palpatine talks about the Dark Side as being a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. This tempts Anakin and he bites on it, swearing to follow Palpatine just so he can gain the power to save Padme.

Of course, Palpatine is the one who wins out here because he doesn't have to make good on this promise ! It's not like Anakin loses Padme and then gets ticked at Palps for not delivering the goods, instead he has to live with the idea that it was his own actions that killed Padme and in that sense she never had a chance to be saved by his "powers" . . . since it was he who killed her.

JediTricks
05-26-2005, 04:40 AM
Ok, if it's a con, why is Anakin saying that with his new powers he can save her?

2-1B
05-26-2005, 04:49 AM
Uhh, because he believed in the con . . . otherwise he wouldn't have fallen for it, would he ? ;)

Surge38
05-26-2005, 12:40 PM
... um... why exactly did Ani burst into flames? I still don't get that.

Well, because he was lying on sand about a foot away from a river of Molten lava. Although, frankly, both he and obi-wan were close enough to the lava to burst into flames durning about 75% of the fight, but why nit-pick (I mean there shouldn't be sound in space either ;) )

JimJamBonds
05-26-2005, 12:41 PM
I think Anakin is just getting a bit ahead of himself with his jibber jabber of new powers. Palps says to get crazy at the Jedi temple and then "take care of" Nute an the boys on Mustafar THEN he will be strong enough in the Dark Side that they can start with these new powers. He's just putting the cart infront of the horse.

Jim Jam

Surge38
05-26-2005, 12:55 PM
I think Anakin is just getting a bit ahead of himself with his jibber jabber of new powers. Palps says to get crazy at the Jedi temple and then "take care of" Nute an the boys on Mustafar THEN he will be strong enough in the Dark Side that they can start with these new powers. He's just putting the cart infront of the horse.

Jim Jam

Exactly. Keep in mind too that Anakin was already talking about Him and Padme overthrowing the Emperor...not even thinking about the fact that he hadn't learned how to save her yet! At this point Anakin is saying whatever he can to convince Padme to stay.

DarthAngel
05-26-2005, 03:08 PM
Exactly. Keep in mind too that Anakin was already talking about Him and Padme overthrowing the Emperor...not even thinking about the fact that he hadn't learned how to save her yet! At this point Anakin is saying whatever he can to convince Padme to stay.


I agree with Surge. Anakin is getting so ahead of himself, because all he wants to do is save Padme, and when Padme confronts him about the things that Obi-Wan said, Anakin goes to great lengths to keep her on his side. Somewhere deep down inside of himself Anakin knows that he has played into Palpatine's con, but all he cares about is Padme, so he has no choice but to play off of Palpatine.

Furthermore, Anakin tells Padme that he can overthrow Palpatine because Palpatine has told Anakin on several occassions, that Anakin was going to be the most powerful Jedi, even more powerful that everyone's little green friend.

vulcantouch
05-26-2005, 11:25 PM
that's good enuf 4 me :crazed:

JediTricks
05-27-2005, 04:25 AM
Uhh, because he believed in the con . . . otherwise he wouldn't have fallen for it, would he ? ;) I thought you meant Anakin was conning Padme, but now I think you're saying Palps was conning Anakin, yes?

Still, if Ani believed he had powers, where did he believe he got them from and what did he believe they were? It couldn't have been all con I suppose because he does get yellow eyes, but that's not explained nor does it really lead down a logical road to explain other powers, at least not how the film portrays it.


Well, because he was lying on sand about a foot away from a river of Molten lava. Although, frankly, both he and obi-wan were close enough to the lava to burst into flames durning about 75% of the fight, but why nit-pick (I mean there shouldn't be sound in space either ;) ) That's a cop-out though, Obi-Wan stood on that sand for just as long in the same area, and didn't even fidget with a hot-foot. As for the nit-pick and the sound-in-space thing, maybe it is, but the sound-in-space thing has been consistant in Star Wars (except possibly for the sonic charges that Jango has on Slave I in AOTC, but that itself is described as a sound black hole by its designer so it still could be construed as staying consistant to the rule) while Anakin bursting into flame isn't consistant with what we've seen before (nor is it consistant with how it'd work unless Anakin had been doused in lighter fluid in some cut-scene ;)).



Exactly. Keep in mind too that Anakin was already talking about Him and Padme overthrowing the Emperor...not even thinking about the fact that he hadn't learned how to save her yet! At this point Anakin is saying whatever he can to convince Padme to stay. Slow up there, when Anakin is talking about overthrowing Palpatine, he is talking about future tense, something he'll do in the future, but when he's talking about his new powers, he's talking about them in the present tense, something he's already got.


I'm not trying to be rude, but does anybody have an actual answer to the question, rather than excuses that require the viewer doing Lucas's writing work for him?

JimJamBonds
05-27-2005, 11:39 AM
JT, I think the yellow eyes are due to the fact that Anakin is already started down the path of the Dark Side. His anger etc. has given him the focus he needs to help take out the Jedi in the Temple (I don't think he needed any extra power to take out the CIS heads rather it was the manner in which it was done that gave him extra power). He is more powerfull then before giving Mace that stump but he isn't all powerfull. Maybe he thought since he just killed a bunch of Jedi and Nute etc. that embracing his hate would allow him the power to prevent death. I certainly don't think he planned on giving Padme the ol' squeeze that day. I stand firmly behind my statement that he was jumping the gun on his talk of new powers (he had a new way of focusing that gave him some new abilities), even Palps said take care of this riff raff then we can start talking turkey about saving Padme.

And as far as the catching on fire thing...... when Vader is laying on the sand his clothing is FAR more combustable and likely to catch on fire then the bottoms of their boots.

JediTricks
05-27-2005, 10:47 PM
Interesting idea on the yellow eyes, but why didn't they stay yellow afterwards, or at least go yellow when facing off against Obi-Wan?

As for the clothes, that's not how fire burns on cloth though, it burns slowly unless it has an accelerant or the material is highly flammable (even if he was wearing flammable clothes though, he lights up REALLy quickly and it shouldn't have spread to his skin that quickly).

Rocketboy
05-27-2005, 10:53 PM
I doubt there is a real explaination, except that it's a movie (and Anakin should have actually fallen into the lava!).

2-1B
05-28-2005, 04:43 AM
I thought you meant Anakin was conning Padme, but now I think you're saying Palps was conning Anakin, yes?

Yes, Palpatine conned Anakin. :)


Still, if Ani believed he had powers, where did he believe he got them from and what did he believe they were?

Palpatine told him to whack the Jedi and the Separatists, then he would be powerful enough to save Padme. There it is, plain as day in the film.


It couldn't have been all con I suppose because he does get yellow eyes, but that's not explained nor does it really lead down a logical road to explain other powers, at least not how the film portrays it.

I don't really "get" the yellow eyes other than it being a symbol of the hate and evil raging within and beyond that it doesn't matter to me.


I'm not trying to be rude, but does anybody have an actual answer to the question, rather than excuses that require the viewer doing Lucas's writing work for him?

Excuse me, but that came across as very rude.
I could suggest that you let Lucas do your viewing for you since you so obviously missed what was going on in the film but I can't imagine how rude I would seem if I did that. ;)

JediTricks
05-29-2005, 09:48 PM
I'm not trying to be rude, but does anybody have an actual answer to the question, rather than excuses that require the viewer doing Lucas's writing work for him?
Excuse me, but that came across as very rude.
I could suggest that you let Lucas do your viewing for you since you so obviously missed what was going on in the film but I can't imagine how rude I would seem if I did that. ;)Let me start with this first. You originally responded to the thread saying "There are no new powers. It was a con." referring to Anakin being conned, but you never explain why you are sure it was a con. You show some of the benefits that Palpatine receives from not needing to save Padme from death, but that is not evidence that Palpatine was lying, that the powers were a con, only that he got the better end of the deal the way things turned out. And in fact, you never do actually provide on-screen evidence to support your conclusion, so I don't believe it's actually in the film, it's just your imagination filling in the blanks.

You're hardly the only one in this thread though, JimJam felt that Anakin was overstating his abilities, that Anakin was speaking as if he already had the powers when he really was expecting to get them later, this COULD tie in with your theory Caes but it also could be accurate, Anakin *might* be getting Sith powers later. Either way though, this isn't actually supported by on-screen evidence, only supported by the lack of corroberation for what Anakin said in the film.

Surge feels that Anakin is just saying whatever he can think of to get Padme to stay with him, but if that's the case then wouldn't simply lying to her and refuting Obi-Wan's claims have worked better? And spewing insane ramblings about killing Palpatine and ruling the galaxy - an excuse Palpatine claimed the Jedi were trying to do - would certainly do nothing but further harm his case. Perhaps Anakin IS so disconnected from Padme that it's possible to believe he's this foolish, but it's not exactly heavily-supported on-screen either.

So ultimately, I stand by my claim that it's not really there over yours that I simply somehow missed it, though I will grant you my comment came off more rudely than intended.



Palpatine told him to whack the Jedi and the Separatists, then he would be powerful enough to save Padme. There it is, plain as day in the film. That's only the directions to getting to work, not how to turn on the computers and start processing files. Look at it this way, your 9th grade teacher takes you aside and says that if you torch the principal's car, you'll be able to jump off the roof and fly. Do you torch the car and jump off the roof? No, because only someone who has no concept of anything around him would jump off that roof without even finding out how this flight is accomplished - that's the type of thing people do when they're under the influence of HEAVY drugs, when they are so gone that there is no car, no fire, no roof, just the flight, and I don't think that's what we're seeing in Anakin, especially not with his tear of sadness and somewhat lucid comments to Padme and Obi-Wan a little while later.



I don't really "get" the yellow eyes other than it being a symbol of the hate and evil raging within and beyond that it doesn't matter to me. It matters to me, it's not consistant and not a solidly-applied metaphor in the saga nor the film itself. And it's still not really explained either by text or by evidence, so we had to guess on the meaning of the eyes in the first place. That's why it bothers me, it only adds to the questions I have rather than supporting them.

2-1B
05-30-2005, 02:11 AM
In my first post in this thread I pointed out that Yoda said "Death is a natural part of life" and that Palpatine offers the opposite of this. That is my basis of believing Anakin got conned. I believe what Yoda says. Two movies later, Luke asks Yoda if the dark side is stronger and Yoda replies that it is not, it is just quicker and easier.

Anakin would have been wise to follow such advice. Sometimes we can save others from dying but not always.

JediTricks
05-31-2005, 04:51 AM
Death is a natural part of life, and Palpatine tells Anakin that the power to cheat death is perceived by many as "unnatural" - these points don't have to be in dispute for both to be correct in the film. Palpatine is talking about using Sith knowledge to manipulate the Force to a means that we perceive as unnatural, to live beyond ones years and save others from death, Anakin talks about how the Sith are selfish and ultimately focus only inwards, these things all seem quite compatible to me and show why Yoda AND Palpatine can be correct in what they are saying without Palpatine having to lie to Anakin.

I just don't see why it has to be Yoda's way OR Palpatine's way to prove the point, we can believe that Yoda is correct without saying Palpatine is incorrect, merely that Yoda's comment is the "moral" direction while Palpatine's is the "immoral" one, which I believe is what the film is trying to say here no matter which way you slice it.


I still don't think we've explored what these powers are supposed to be or how Anakin thinks he got them and how he can use them, though.

stillakid
05-31-2005, 09:15 AM
In my first post in this thread I pointed out that Yoda said "Death is a natural part of life" and that Palpatine offers the opposite of this. That is my basis of believing Anakin got conned. I believe what Yoda says. Two movies later, Luke asks Yoda if the dark side is stronger and Yoda replies that it is not, it is just quicker and easier.

Anakin would have been wise to follow such advice. Sometimes we can save others from dying but not always.

I don't know. While I can see how what you're suggesting might be possible, I don't think it is the case. And I base that on the way Palps delivers that story about Plag. While we can really see when Palps is lying because he and George really play those moments over the top, the manner in which Palps tells the story of Plag really came off as very sincere. When he lies to Anakin or anyone else, it's really really obvious (to the audience...because we're in on the secret). But this doesn't mean that every word coming out of his mouth is a lie. So it makes total sense to believe that Plag did learn how to "cheat death" and that Palps learned how to do it as well.

The new INSIDER backs this up, more or less, because the question of Palp's appearance is addressed by Ian and Lucas. Apparently Palps is "very very old" and his youthful appearance is just a mask. The discussion they had was whether he should go back to the young look when addressing the Senate. They opted not to because they liked the look of the makeup. Of course this was the wrong choice if they intended the audience to be aware that Palps is really very very old because otherwise it just looks like the lightning jacked him up. But the point is (or would be) that Palps had to know the secret to cheating death if he made it to this unspecified very very old age. Yet, as we know, he tells Anakin afterward that he can't do it. :rolleyes:

JimJamBonds
05-31-2005, 12:31 PM
Interesting idea on the yellow eyes, but why didn't they stay yellow afterwards, or at least go yellow when facing off against Obi-Wan?

As for the clothes, that's not how fire burns on cloth though, it burns slowly unless it has an accelerant or the material is highly flammable (even if he was wearing flammable clothes though, he lights up REALLy quickly and it shouldn't have spread to his skin that quickly).

Good point on the changing eyes JediTricks, perhaps the yellowness goes away because he's talking to Padme first and 'represses' Darth Vader and is Anakin Skywalker one last time (this is part my thought and part of what is said in the novel). I belive his eyes "go" yellow in the fight???

And for the clothes... yeah they do burn quick that is a good observation perhaps midicholians are flammable. I can think of one example of where a lightsaber didn't result in a clean cut! :crazed:

Jim Jam