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View Full Version : Were TPM and AOTC really Necessary? Hindsight after ROTS



Tycho
06-04-2005, 09:02 PM
I say "Yes. TPM and AOTC were very necessary."

TPM:

-established how Palpatine got elected Chancellor
-showed where Anakin was found
-allowed his mother to explain that there wasn't a father
-showed how long and how deep his relationship with his mother was
-showed that Anakin had everyday normal, practical emotions, not serenity.
-showed that when Obi-Wan got him, Obi-Wan was too young, Anakin too old
-showed that Anakin fixated on Padme, as a nurturing gal, after he left his mom

WITHOUT TPM:

- We'd already have this guy Palpatine as chancellor. How'd he get so popular? Where was the strong sympathy vote for him coming from?

- We'd have Anakin already with Obi-Wan, who would be a full-Jedi, and then it'd be more his failure when Anakin turns, because Obi-Wan knew better than Qui-Gon, the dangers of training an older boy with worldly ties like Anakin

-We wouldn't have Anakin's birth without a father being suspicious

- We wouldn't care as much when his mom died, because we'd have less time established characterizing mother and son's love for each other

-We'd have someone with Jedi training to not establish attachments, yearning after Padme in a way most Jedi would never do.


AOTC:

- We see how Palpatine manufactured a galactic civil war as Darth Sidious
- We see that Palpatine gains emergency powers, almost a legal dictator
- We see that the Clones are usurped by the Jedi and put into action on their responsibility
- We see Anakin lose his mother and avenge her with terrible angst
- We see Padme forced to depend on Anakin, who can eventually win her heart
- We see Anakin and Padme get married
- We see how the droids end up companions with each other, and serving the Skywalkers


Without AOTC:

We would not know how Palpatine got emergency powers. What was so severe that required this?

We would not know where the Clones came from. Where did the two armies come from? How did Palpatine maintain control of them? What were the Clone Wars and how did they start?

What kind of fear of loss and absense of control makes Anakin tap into his anger? What pushes him so hard he'll sacrafice anything to restore a balance of justice?

How did Padme get pregnant? When was there (at least) 9 months of time for a relationship between them (in this case 3+ years) for her to be ready to give birth by Episode 3?

How did the droids end up on the blockade runner? Why are they so loyal to Princess Leia and Luke? Is that just the way they are? Or do they really belong to this brother and sister family? How?

Finally, how did the Jedi know about the Sith? How does Anakin ascend to become Darth Sidious' apprentice? Who came before him? Why was Anakin so desirable as an apprentice?

- we loop around to learn he might've been created by Darth Plageus for that purpose - and Darth Maul could never have been the politician Dooku was to orchestrate the corporations declaring secession and civil war - but neither could match the midichlorians, speed, youth, and "electability" or "successability" that Anakin could've (had he not become Vader).

- and we learn from those reasons why Palpatine might've preferred Luke to turn to the Dark Side and get rid of his "droid of a father," so Palpatine could continue the Sith Legacy with the apprentice he'd always dreamed of - someone with a face and presence like Luke (or how Anakin should have been).

Mad Slanted Powers
06-04-2005, 09:36 PM
I'd say those are all valid points that I agree with. This is why I disagree when some say TPM and AOTC weren't necessary. TPM and AOTC are as much a part of the saga as any other episode. With all the parallels between the PT and the OT, when you watch in order 1-6 you will wonder if Luke will make the same choices and suffer the same fate as his father.

Droid
06-04-2005, 10:07 PM
Tycho, I think your logic is mildly off here. You seem to be asking, "Were the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones necessary?" and then answering, "Yes, or we would not have seen what was shown in those two movies." I guess if your premise is that Watto is necessary to the Star Wars saga, yes Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are necessary or we would not have seen how Watto fit into everything. We did not NEED to see ANYTHING from the Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones that was not referenced in the original trilogy. There was no reason we NEEDED to see Anakin's mother, let alone her death. We did not need to know who his father was. For instance, I don't know who Yoda, the Emperor, Obi-wan, Han, or Chewbacca's parents were and it doesn't matter at all.

I think Lucas COULD have shown the entire backstory he specifically laid out in the original trilogy in one prequel movie. He did not and I am glad he did not. I enjoyed the prequels and liked the extras (Darth Maul, etc.) that we did not need to see at all in order to have a backstory of the original trilogy.

I guess the funny thing for me is that there were certain things in the original trilogy backstory, as revealed in dialogue from the original trilogy, that either were not shown or were changed for the prequels.

For instance, we never saw Obi-wan being impatient, angry, or reckless as stated in Empire. We never saw anything to suggest Obi-wan felt he could train Anakin just as well as Yoda as stated in Jedi. We never saw Anakin and Obi-wan as friends. We never saw why Leia knew her mother more than Luke. We never saw Obi-wan try to convince Anakin to turn good again and to leave the Emperor as Vader says in Jeid. Seems like in three prequel movies Lucas could have dumped some of the extras like Anakin's mother and made sure he showed what was talked about in original trilogy dialogue.

I for one think Owen was a much more significant character from the original trilogy than what he got in the prequel trilogy. He and Anakin met for all of five minutes in the prequels. It doesn't match with the relationship between them in the original trilogy.

But nobody needs to tell me why the prequels don't contradict the original trilogy and explain why none of it is a plot flaw. I know these explanations. I know everything matches up "from a certain point of view." But for some us it matches up perfectly while for others of us it is really, really strained to have the trilogies match up perfectly.

And before anyone goes after me, I love ALL SIX MOVIES.

2-1B
06-05-2005, 12:10 AM
I love the storyline with Anakin and his mother. Very sad. :(

Mad Slanted Powers
06-05-2005, 12:25 AM
There was no reason we NEEDED to see Anakin's mother, let alone her death. On this I disagree. This was a big part of what led him down dark path. His fear of loss and inability to deal with it.

For instance, we never saw Obi-wan being impatient, angry, or reckless as stated in Empire. We had a hint of it in Episode I. Certainly nothing like Anakin or even Luke, but still he wasn't the mature Jedi we see in Episodes II and III.

We never saw anything to suggest Obi-wan felt he could train Anakin just as well as Yoda as stated in Jedi. I'll agree on this one as nothing I can recall suggests this.

We never saw Anakin and Obi-wan as friends.Agreed, we didn't see this in TPM and very little of it in AOTC. ROTS certainly established it though.
We never saw why Leia knew her mother more than Luke.Indeed, this one requires some effort to explain.

We never saw Obi-wan try to convince Anakin to turn good again and to leave the Emperor as Vader says in Jeid.I think he sort of does before the final lightsaber duel. He didn't want to destroy Anakin. I think he hoped his words might reach him, but it was too late and he was too much of a threat.

I for one think Owen was a much more significant character from the original trilogy than what he got in the prequel trilogy. He and Anakin met for all of five minutes in the prequels. It doesn't match with the relationship between them in the original trilogy. I kind of wish they had done more with this as well. Perhaps after the Clone Wars, have Anakin quit/be expelled from the Jedi to be with Padmé. Maybe they are staying with Owen and Beru when Obi-Wan returns asking for Anakin's help to stop the Sith threat. So, Anakin follows his old master on this 'idealistic crusade'.

But nobody needs to tell me why the prequels don't contradict the original trilogy and explain why none of it is a plot flaw. Too late! :)