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stillakid
06-05-2005, 10:01 AM
BEN
That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

When did Owen ever have enough time to form an opinion like this? At what point did Owen and Anakin ever discuss politics like the way Ani and Padme did that summer on Naboo?

See, to me, this above statement indicates that Anakin actually grew up in the proximity to Owen or at least spent significant "buddy" time with him, perhaps in the bars in Anchorhead getting plastered on the weekends. Because by the time Owen and Ani even meet, Ani is already "involved" and isn't running away to some far off conflict that neither of them had any vested interest in.

Now I can already smell the stench of the "point of viewers" who will claim that Old Ben was just saying this as part of his ploy to get Luke off the planet and if that's what you wish to believe, nobody will stop you. But from where I'm sitting, this statement was delivered with a sincerity that had nothing to do with "protecting" Luke's fragile growth the way that the "Vader" story did.

JimJamBonds
06-05-2005, 10:33 AM
When did Owen ever have enough time to form an opinion like this? At what point did Owen and Anakin ever discuss politics like the way Ani and Padme did that summer on Naboo?

See, to me, this above statement indicates that Anakin actually grew up in the proximity to Owen or at least spent significant "buddy" time with him, perhaps in the bars in Anchorhead getting plastered on the weekends. Because by the time Owen and Ani even meet, Ani is already "involved" and isn't running away to some far off conflict that neither of them had any vested interest in.

Now I can already smell the stench of the "point of viewers" who will claim that Old Ben was just saying this as part of his ploy to get Luke off the planet and if that's what you wish to believe, nobody will stop you. But from where I'm sitting, this statement was delivered with a sincerity that had nothing to do with "protecting" Luke's fragile growth the way that the "Vader" story did.

I think that statement can be said the way that things were presented. He would have had atleast some idea of the things that Anni had done and had for sure more of the 'farmer' in him then the adventurer. Heck maybe he even thought had Annner's still been on the planet his father wouldn't had ever lost that leg to the Tuskins? I don't have much of an issue with this statement.

Jim Jam

trandoshan666
06-05-2005, 10:57 AM
Now I can already smell the stench of the "point of viewers" who will claim that Old Ben was just saying this as part of his ploy to get Luke off the planet and if that's what you wish to believe, nobody will stop you. But from where I'm sitting, this statement was delivered with a sincerity that had nothing to do with "protecting" Luke's fragile growth the way that the "Vader" story did.

Funny, I've never considered myself a "point of viewer." On this subject, now that we have seen the backstory, I think it's obvious that this statement was one of several aimed at getting Luke involved.

jlw
06-05-2005, 11:13 AM
This is an issue I've sorta had a problem with. Since the PT did not expand on Obi-Wan's statement in Ep. 4; I am assuming that supposedly this idea of Owen not wanting Anakin to get involved will be dealt with in either the books or the t.v. series. But it will actually be more past tense; Owen will tell Obi-Wan that Anakin shouldn't have gotten involved; not necessarily that Owen warned Anakin. That's the only way it can make sense to me. Because as far as I can tell Obi-Wan never met the Lars until he delivered the baby in Ep. 3. I remember something from the Radio drama (which some consider to be canon) concerning Obi-Wan visiting the Lars a few times when Luke was a small child and Owen getting scared of Obi-Wan's presence around Luke and ran Obi-Wan off the farm. If I remember right, its during Obi-Wan and Lukes dialogue in Obi-Wan's house; and Obi-Wan mentions something about trying to give Luke his father's lightsaber when he was younger.

2-1B
06-05-2005, 01:54 PM
Anakin shows up in AOTC to find out that his mom was living with that guy for how-many-years and Owen obviously knew about him, even saying he figured Anners might show up some day. It's quite reasonable that Shmi told her new family all about little Ani being taking away by Qui-Gon (the whole thing is creepy) so he was aware that Anakin was from "here."

Ben also says Owen wouldn't allow Luke to have his pops' lightsaber and since the prequels end with an infant Luke being handed over, I'm sure that conversation took place as the boy was growing up.

Note: I used the word "reasonable" and not rationalize. ;)

Hey stillakid, if the "Stench" is that offensive to you, then why even bother to bring stuff like this up when you already know what you're going to hear ? (supposedly) :confused:

stillakid
06-05-2005, 04:06 PM
Anakin shows up in AOTC to find out that his mom was living with that guy for how-many-years and Owen obviously knew about him, even saying he figured Anners might show up some day. It's quite reasonable that Shmi told her new family all about little Ani being taking away by Qui-Gon (the whole thing is creepy) so he was aware that Anakin was from "here."
I see what you're getting at, but it is kind of a stretch from Old Ben's words, isn't it? Ben suggests by his words that Owen wanted Anakin to "stay here and not get involved." But at the time that lil' Ani left Tatooine, there was nothing to get "involved" in. Certainly not galactic turmoil as implied by Ben's words about Owen.


Hey stillakid, if the "Stench" is that offensive to you, then why even bother to bring stuff like this up when you already know what you're going to hear ? (supposedly) :confused:
I bring it up because I'm interested in hearing more than the standard: "it was told from his certain point of view." That argument is a cop out involving no thought on the part of anyone. My intention was to drive any potential answers to the question away from that cop out and into more interesting territory, as you have done. Thanks and good job! :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-05-2005, 04:51 PM
I said this in another thread, but I'll post it here too. My take on this is that Owen was kind of miffed at Anakin for leaving during Shmi's funeral to go save Obi-Wan on Geonosis without even saying anything to the Lars family. He probably loved Shmi and felt kind of insulted that Anakin (even though he was her true son) interrupted the time where they were paying respects to Shmi. I guess he felt that Anakin should've stayed on Tatooine and not gotten involved.

scruffziller
06-05-2005, 04:54 PM
Anakin shows up in AOTC to find out that his mom was living with that guy for how-many-years and Owen obviously knew about him, even saying he figured Anners might show up some day. It's quite reasonable that Shmi told her new family all about little Ani being taking away by Qui-Gon (the whole thing is creepy) so he was aware that Anakin was from "here."


Yea, I think that being aware of that is the key to Ben's statement. Owen had already formed an opinion of Anikin from Shmi's telling of him running off with the Jedi and then the events that followed of course. So Owen can have an opinion of Anikin's life choices just from knowing about him and when Obi goes to Tatooine, I am sure him and Owen had many conversations about everything that happened and continued to happen. But I really like the match up on the time factor of what JabbaJohn says.

Bacta Beast
06-05-2005, 04:57 PM
I see what you're getting at, but it is kind of a stretch from Old Ben's words, isn't it? Ben suggests by his words that Owen wanted Anakin to "stay here and not get involved." But at the time that lil' Ani left Tatooine, there was nothing to get "involved" in. Certainly not galactic turmoil as implied by Ben's words about Owen.

I'm sorry man, I just don't understand that. It's obvious that there is a rebellion going on and people are tired of the Empire's crap. I always assumed the turmoil because there was a war going on. See I don't think it's that Owen necessarily warned Anakin against anything, I don't see where that was implied. I think it's just more that Owen knew about Anakin's involvement in the Clone Wars, and just the fact that he wasn't there when his mother needed him before. It's easy to see why Owen would think Anakin should never have left Tatooine in the first place, not just the second time. He probably didn't like the Jedi backing up a corrupt republic either.



I bring it up because I'm interested in hearing more than the standard: "it was told from his certain point of view."

And you like a good argument. ;)

I have to say though that I think there are some other spots that didn't get matched up. "He was afraid you'd follow old Obi Wan on some damn idealistic crusade like your father". He couldn't have been referring to the first time Anakin left, because Anakin hadn't even left he (Anakin) hadn't even met Obi yet (unless Owen didn't know that). And I don't see how he could be referring to the second time as the Clone Wars hadn't started yet! :ermm: I guess you could explain it by saying that Anakin didn't talk to Owen before he left for Geonosis (wich I would assume he didn't), so after Owen realizes that Anakin is gone, the next news he hears is of Anakin fighting alongside Obi in the Wars. I don't know, does that work?
The statement sure sounds like Obi claiming to have recruited Anakin for some misison or war.

And what about C-3PO's "last job", "programming binary load lifters" was that implanted after the mind wipe? Or did he actually leave the possession of Antilles, work another job, and then return? Or maybe are binary load lifters a feature on the Tantive? either way 3PO's comment about the condition of the outside of the ship seems to imply he hasn't been off of it since his mindwipe.

2-1B
06-05-2005, 05:43 PM
As to following Obi-Wan on some crusade, Anakin leaves ma's funeral after receiving a message from this Obi-Wan character and the next time Owen hears any news, it is that same Obi-Wan coming to the homestead sans Anakin who 'died.'

So if Obi-Wan is going over to the homestead between trilogies "wanting" to give Luke his old man's lightsaber, it's no surprise that Owen wouldn't want Luke to get caught caught up with that same guy. lol

2-1B
06-05-2005, 05:45 PM
either way 3PO's comment about the condition of the outside of the ship seems to imply he hasn't been off of it since his mindwipe.

How did you come to that conclusion ? :confused:

Bacta Beast
06-05-2005, 11:36 PM
How did you come to that conclusion ? :confused:

I always thought it was strange when he said that, because the implication is; that he didn't recongize the outside of the Tantive from a Star Destroyer. But that's easy to understand if his memory is wiped after he enters that ship, and doesn't leave it again for the next nineteen years (possible for a droid). Then the next time he see the outside of a ship it's a Star Destroyer, and he doesn't know the difference, thinking it's the ship he's been on all this time. "The damage doesn't look so bad from out here". But are "binary load lifters" something he would have worked on while on the Tantive? The visual dictionary says he had numerous masters and jobs between those years :ermm: .

2-1B
06-06-2005, 01:36 AM
Thanks, now I see where you're coming from. Sorry for not catching your meaning the first time. :)

Well, I disagree. The Tantive is still visible from the outside because the escape hatches jettisoned so they got out of there somehow. The ship was not completely enclosed. Ever since I was a kid I guess I just thought that it was a funny comment because of course the damage wouldn't look as bad from the outside since they were far away and they weren't getting rocked by laser blasts. lol

jlw
06-06-2005, 06:21 PM
I always thought it was strange when he said that, because the implication is; that he didn't recongize the outside of the Tantive from a Star Destroyer. But that's easy to understand if his memory is wiped after he enters that ship, and doesn't leave it again for the next nineteen years (possible for a droid). Then the next time he see the outside of a ship it's a Star Destroyer, and he doesn't know the difference, thinking it's the ship he's been on all this time. "The damage doesn't look so bad from out here". But are "binary load lifters" something he would have worked on while on the Tantive? The visual dictionary says he had numerous masters and jobs between those years :ermm: .

C-3PO's statement does not imply that he hasn't seen the outside of the Blockade Runner. It simply implies that C-3PO expected the damage to the Blockade Runner, from the turbo lasers on the Star Destroyer, to be greater than it looked. Don't forget the Star Destroyer did blow off the radar dish before it was pulled into the docking area. Also, 3PO could clearly see the Blockade Runner from the escape pod.

As far as 3PO's statement of "binary load lifters"; who knows what kind of duties Cpt. Antilles had them doing on Alderaan

stillakid
06-06-2005, 06:39 PM
C-3PO's statement does not imply that he hasn't seen the outside of the Blockade Runner. It simply implies that C-3PO expected the damage to the Blockade Runner, from the turbo lasers on the Star Destroyer, to be greater than it looked. Don't forget the Star Destroyer did blow off the radar dish before it was pulled into the docking area. Also, 3PO could clearly see the Blockade Runner from the escape pod.
I not only agree 100% with you, but I thought it was brutally obvious as well.


As far as 3PO's statement of "binary load lifters"; who knows what kind of duties Cpt. Antilles had them doing on Alderaan
:eek:

:classic:

:smoker:

JediTricks
06-06-2005, 08:21 PM
While I too am disappointed with the route that the prequels took, I think we can still chalk this up to "the realm of possibility", perhaps Obi-Wan stopped by the Lars homestead a lot when Luke was a baby, and Owen and Ben got to talking about Luke's future and Anakin and whatnot, and eventually they started disagreeing more and more on these issues to the point where Ben was no longer welcome. This would fit pretty well with the original point of Star Wars (listen to the ANH commentary track and you'll see what I mean) in that we're NOT supposed to know what's going on, we're thrown into the middle and have to adapt for ourselves, Lucas wrote small backstories for a few characters but only to help flesh out the writing of Episode 4, and therefore we try to fill the void as we move forward in the story.

Bacta Beast
06-06-2005, 11:44 PM
The Tantive is still visible from the outside because the escape hatches jettisoned so they got out of there somehow. The ship was not completely enclosed. Ever since I was a kid I guess I just thought that it was a funny comment because of course the damage wouldn't look as bad from the outside since they were far away and they weren't getting rocked by laser blasts. lol

I understand that, but I think the ship he commented on was the Destroyer, because;
As the pod got far enough away for them to actually see something, the Tantive wouldn't have been very visible, while the destroyer would have. Also the destroyer wouldn't show the signs of damage that the Tantive could have as it I'm sure the Tantive didn't damage the destroyer much. I assumed when I first heard him make say that, that it was supposed to be humerous that this droid didn't recognize the ship he had been on from another. :)