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Sith Lord 0498
06-05-2005, 12:24 PM
Because of all the inconsistencies between the PT and OT, I've come to the conclusion that the only way to reconcile this issue is to simply view the six films not as one 13 hour movie but as two completely separate trilogies, each with their own stories and a few threads tying them together. It's hopeless and therefore pointless to try tying up all the plotholes and loose threads so that we can have a single continuity across all six films.

This is something we've already done with the EU novels and comics. There are many contradictions between the EU and the films, but we don't harp on them as much. True, there's a difference between nitpicking discontinuity between Darksaber and Return of the Jedi and nitpicking discontinuity between The Phantom Menace and A New Hope. The films should complement and support each other. But it hasn't happened that way. There's no changing that. It's a fact that we as Star Wars fans will have to accept.

Even the visual effects help us here. Even with all the modifications made to the OT, the prequels still look completely different than the classic trilogy. While I'm sure there are some on these boards who will still incessantly rip apart and complain about the inconsistencies between the two trilogies, I hope many of us can learn to accept that, for better or worse, this is the way things turned out. We can still discuss and infer theories that will attempt to tie things together, but it shouldn't go any further than fan speculation anymore. We don't have to get so worked up over it anymore.

Watch the trilogies separately. Enjoy them for their own self-contained stories. If you prefer one trilogy over the other, that's OK. Nowhere does it say that Star Wars fans must blindly love and embrace any and all things Star Wars. If that were the case, we'd be breaking down Lucas' door to get that super-nifty special edition of the Holiday Special.

Tycho
06-05-2005, 12:58 PM
Hello. My name is Tycho, your Friendly Neighborhood Lucas Appologist.

I am here with another edition of "Lucas' Excuses."

Today on our show we have a very special guest: Princess Leia Organa-Solo.

T: Hello, Your Highness.

PL: Hello, Tycho. My what a large Mouse Droid you have there!

T: Thank you, Princess. This is my Co-Host, Darth Mouse, Dark Lord of the Sniffs.

Well if I may get started, our audience has been standing by for 22 years waiting to ask you, how DO you remember your mother?

PL: Well, I remember her just a little. She died when I was very young. I remember images really. She was very beautiful, kind, but sad.

T: So you saw images - like your adopted father showed you holo-pictures?

PL: Yes. I knew what she looked like, and he told me about the kinds of things she did.

T: Like work with the Refugee Relief Group?

PL: Right.

I remember only the briefest of touches, maybe even feelings from when I was in the womb. Some people remember that.

T: I've heard of that before.

PL: Well maybe it has something to do with the Force. I'm only just learning some of its capabilities. But I could sense her feelings. Something hurt her to tears. She was very frightened and uncertain. I remember feeling sadness and great confusion.

T: I see. And you related that to images you have of your mother?

PL: Most of what I have comes from my adopted father's Senate proceeding recordings. My mother, my real mother, was fighting this evil formation of a Clone Army for Palpatine's abuse. She once trusted him, but she was losing faith in the man she helped elect to lead the Senate, and she may have blamed herself. She was terribly distressed when he proclaimed a new Galactic Empire, and I don't think she ever moved beyond whatever guilt she felt for the part she played in it. But I'm only speculating. When she was alive I was never old enough to speak with her. She died just after my brother Luke and I were born.

T: So it's clearly possible that George Lucas never really knew all these details to put them into a Family Channel movie about your life's history?

PL: No. He knew. But really I felt that those recordings were personal and they were all I had left of the memory of my mother. Some things had to be kept private - and I'm sure you could appreciate the danger that existed should the Emperor have had seen the movie and draw the connection between my mother and who my real father actually was.

So we elected not to really explain things on screen until we knew Palpatine was destroyed and his Death Stars blown up. Too bad there isn't an Episode 7, but even I can't tell you how that would turn out.

T: Princess Leia, thank you very much for joining us and sharing with us this morning on this edition of "Lucas' Execuses."

And Lasers and Gamorreans, we'll be back soon with our next special guest star!

Tycho
06-05-2005, 01:33 PM
Lasers and Gamorreans, we now return to "Lucas' Excuses."

Next up, we have a very special guest star who's come all the way back from the dead to be with us here today, Darth Vader!

T: Welcome Darth Vader.

DV: Thank you Tycho. I have underestimated the SIZE of your Mouse Droid.

T: Many people have made that mistake. Darth Mouse, this is Darth Vader. Care for a sniff My Lord?

DV: It may be difficult. Help me take this mask off. Let me sniff you with my own nose.

Potent! There is great power in the Dark Scent.

T: I've noticed.

So Darth, let me ask you a question now that the Star Wars saga is complete: you told your son Luke Skywalker, when he begged you to leave the Empire and come away with him, that Obi-Wan once thought that way. We're not really clear on that. Could you elaborate?

DV: Obi-Wan snuck aboard my wife's ship and tracked me down to Mustafar where I was eliminating the last of the Separatist leaders to end the Civil War. His orders from Master Yoda were to destroy me. But when my wife's ship first landed, he did not reveal himself, nor engage me. He waited, and watched. He thought Padme's own hopes and desires might persuade me to abandon Palpatine.

T: So Padme didn't mind that you'd killed your brother Jedi, slayed Younglings, that sort of thing?

DV: I didn't answer her accusations. I didn't want to do those things. I had no choice if I was going to save her. On Mustafar, when I had a chance to look back on it, I cried. I did everything I did to try and save Padme. Palpatine might've been the only one who could help me do this. I had no intentions of killing Mace Windu - as much as I disliked the man. Palpatine led me to believe he was weaker than I'd thought. I'd spared his life, but before I knew what I'd really done, he killed Master Windu, thus making me an accomplice to him.

The Jedi Council already mistrusted me, and with the leader of the High Council dead with the blood on my hands, how were they ever going to be sympathetic to my needs to be seceretly married, let alone trying to save the life of my wife and child against the backdrop of all the selfless service the Jedi needed to be caught up in during the war?

Palpatine became my only hope for Padme. I realized that in a heartbeat - and I knew he'd tricked me. Man did I ever want to throw him down a reactor shaft or something!

T: So you just went off and killed the Younglings?

DV: Palpatine had everything in place to call Order 066 and eliminate the Jedi Knights and Masters. These kids were not kids in the typical sense at all. They were raised in the Temple honing their skills since they were old enough to remember. Their skills and their lack of training made them dangerous. What was Palpatine going to do? Turn hundreds of Force-capable children out into the streets from their priviledged homes or send them off into orphanages - or even slavery? They'd want revenge. Their limited control over their emotions would lose out, and their familiarity and common bond and circumstance would forge them into a fighting unit. Palpatine was right: we would have a Rebellion. They'd have to be destroyed sooner than later anyway. I didn't want to do it - but what choice was there? My motive was to save Padme. I couldn't win Palpatine's good graces by leading a band of fugitive Padawans while my wife could die at any minute.

T: So you avoided explaining this to Padme?

DV: She would have sacraficed her life to save those padawans. She was that kind of person. Though the deed was done, if I could save her, I didn't want her to have to live with the kind of guilt she'd have felt if she knew what her life had cost.

T: So without knowing all the details, she felt the two of you could just run away and hide? Leave the madness behind you?

DV: Yes. But remember, she still could die in childbirth. Palpatine, as Emperor, had unlimited medical resources available to him, let alone the power of the Dark Side to help save her life. Plus I'd established a situation where we didn't have to run away. I had the authority now.

T: So Obi-Wan let Padme make the offer? To come away from it all?

DV: Yes. He had little to offer me except sympathy. But he knew she had everything to offer me - including the lives of my family. I guess we hit an impasse. My course was set. It was Obi-Wan that couldn't walk away from it.
I didn't want to kill him. I offered to let him leave.

T: But he wanted to take Padme to get her medical care?

DV: Yes. But he had no clue as to what he was talking about. I couldn't share with him our secret - about our marriage, the pregnancy, my dreams... He couldn't save her if he wanted to. Only the Dark Side held that promise - let alone that Palpatine still had all the conventional medical resources at his disposal as Emperor.

T: So there wasn't a choice for either of you?

DV: Right. The Jedi were now as dangerous as the Sith - should they not be destroyed. And they would have taken over - Palpatine was right about that. I mean I saw Master Windu with my own eyes in the act of it! Then Obi-Wan outmaneuvers me on Mustafar and had I not at least tried to leap on him, he would have forced my surrender, and - or , taken Padme. Thus she'd have died in childbirth afterall.

T: But she did die, didn't she?

DV: Do you want to make me mad at you? Trust me: you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

T: Sorry....Um...so you think it was a self-fulfilling prophesy?

DV: I think Palpatine manipulated it as such.

T: So why did you stay with him?

DV: He saved me on Mustafar. He tried to rebuild me and he restored me to the power I'd tried to claim to set the galaxy in order. As the 2nd arm of the Empire, I could restore order, peace, and justice to the galaxy. I could stop all this war and let other families live their lives out in peace.

T: Yes, but Palpatine's taxes for his armies kept families in poverty, crippled economically.

DV: I grew up a slave with next to nothing in the way of material possessions. But as bad as being a slave in Watto's care was, my mother and I were relatively safe - and if you and your family are safe, you have your love, and then you basically have all you'll ever really need.

T: Thank you Lord Vader for sharing with us your insight on Obi-Wan and the events that surrounded your tragedy on Mustafar. It has been very enlightening.

DV: Thank you Tycho. I will let you live, and long live "Lucas' Excuses." I get residuals in my contract you know.


T: Well Lasers and Gamorreans, now you heard it straight from The Lord. We'll be right back with our next guest star on "Lucas' Excuses."

Bosskman
06-05-2005, 05:03 PM
Tycho, I gotta say your Vader interview was awesome.

Bacta Beast
06-05-2005, 05:11 PM
lol lol lol :crazed: :crazed: @#*#@! That was funny Tycho!! You,ve got to film that sh@#$!t!!!!!

DarthAngel
06-05-2005, 06:08 PM
I don't understand why some people like to complain.

I would like to see them try and do what Uncle George did back in 1975-83 when he first filmed The OT. Then take a break from that part of your life for the next 16 years and the film the PT, see how much you remember over the course of that 16 year rest.

Speaking as a writer, I would like to say that it is hard to please everyone all the time, especially when it comes to something as grand as Star Wars. For a moment just imagine that back in lets say 1974 Uncle George sat down and wrote out the entire story from start to finish. Now we are talking from our first introduction of Anakin to his death. But Because it was so much to fit into one movie, it gets broken down. Now as a writer, if there is something I wrote last year that plays part in a bigger story that I am writing, unless I go back and re-read what I wrote (which is obvious that George didn't, but anyways) it is going to be difficul to make parts of the story line up the way that fans think they should. And even if I go back and fix the things that I was unhappy with (OTSE) I run the risk of having fans hate me because I wanted to change something that I didn't like. Is that fair?

Even if Uncle George reworked the entire PT and gave us PTSE, I am sure that way all the unanswered, or the unexplained paradoxes are now explained in PTSE, there would be naysayers who would find something else to whine about, and after awhile Good old Uncle George (or any other artist for that matter) is going to tell a large chunk of the fan base to take a long walk off a short pier. But hey what do I know, I'm just a writer!

Tycho
06-05-2005, 08:04 PM
And now back to "Lucas' Excuses."

First I have to say thank you for the compliments. I also feel like our show will be a success.

I also want to say that I love the way the Prequel Trilogy has evolved to fit with the Sequel Trilogy and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think George Lucas didn't do a brilliant job.

To help us make an even better evaluation of that, I have with me now our next special guest star: the hero of the hour himself - Obi-Wan Kenobi!

T: Obi-Wan, it's great of you to come back here to join us.

OBW: Well thank the Force that it was possible.

T: Yes. I've heard now that Star Wars is over in its role on the big screen, you've moved on to other dimensions.

OBW: Yes. Pause on that for a moment. That's a very ususual Mouse Droid you've got there. Is it evil?

T: No. Darth Mouse? He's harmless. Would you like to have a sniff?

OBW: You don't want to sniff that Mouse Droid right now.

T: I don't want to sniff that Mouse Droid right now.

OBW: You want to get on with my interview.

T: I want to get on with my interview.

So Obi-Wan, Star Wars fans have a whole lifetime's worth of questions for you.

OBW: That's great since now that I've joined the Force, I have an eternity to spend answering them.

T: First, you told Luke that you hadn't gone by the name Obi-Wan since before he was born?

OBW: It was during the height of the Clone Wars that I think we all sort of lost our identities - the Jedi commanders that is. I worked mostly with Clones from then on out, and everyone called me general.

T: So "General Kenobi" is different from Obi-Wan Kenobi?

OBW: That's right. It's a "generalization." (smiles)

T: You also told Luke you'd never owned a droid before? How about R4-G9?

OBW: I didn't own him. He was the communal property of the Jedi Temple. Different Astromechs were put into different starfighters all the time. Anakin's was the exception. R2D2 was given to him as a wedding present from Senator Amidala - although at the time I'd only heard it was as a reward for saving Naboo from Separatist invasion. Anakin had flown with R2 before, and they'd done the exception. Anakin was an exceptional Jedi, so nothing was said of him modifying droids and starfighters to suit his style since we certainly never had much to complain about with his efficiency.

T: So did you recognize R2 - and C-3PO as well - all those years later on Tatooine?

OBW: Oh yes. You know I hesitated. It might have come from my lack of having been in action for some time by that point. But the droids, and then the hologram transmission from Leia Organa - it all came back to me like deja vu. But that was more than I cared to explain to Luke at that particular time.

T: You told Luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber when he was old enough, but his Uncle wouldn't allow it. Was there any truth in any of that?

OBW: Truth is relative to a point of view. The facts are somewhat different. The boy was very strong in the Force. Had Anakin not gotten involved with Palpatine's schemes and fallen to the Dark Side - well I don't care to speculate too much about what might have been. But we'd all seen too much war. Even though Anakin excelled in battle, I felt the good in him and the difference in him when he was with Padme. I think it might have been reasonable that Anakin would have tried to leave the Jedi order and raise a family back on Naboo. I doubt much good could have come of it. The war was Palpatine's brainchild, and his plans to maintain autocratic power even after the war had ended were not going to be dissuaded. The Jedi were too dependant on their Clones and never saw that betrayal coming. I could only hope that I'd have trained Anakin to sense it and survive it, but any child he brought into this world would need to hone his powers just in order to survive in the New Order. I have no doubt Anakin would have trained Luke had things worked out differently. Palpatine would have hunted them relentlessly!

And as for Owen, well he'd been reluctant to take on the weight of being responsible for a Jedi child from the get-go. Tatooine might be far beyond the reach of the Empire - but it was never that far. Owen's worst fears came true after all. He and his wife paid the greatest price for becoming involved.

T: That's why Owen didn't care for you hanging around his farm, interacting with Luke?

OBW: That's right. However reluctant he might've been to take on the burden of this child into his already grief-stricken family, he raised Luke like his own son. He knew the danger. He didn't want me training the boy. He figured, "why push his luck?"

I learned not to argue with a farmer with a rifle when you're trespassing on his field.

T: Amazing Jedi wisdom.

Alright then. You told Luke that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered his father. Want to expand on that?

OBW: Yoda said it best: the boy I'd trained was gone - consumed by Darth Vader. While I wished to still see good in him, Anakin put himself in a position where he sacraficed everything for one singular goal - protecting Padme - and he killed himself and whatever good there was in that when he lept up and into my sword. I didn't strike a killing blow. I was sent to destroy him but I wound up only defending myself. Anakin's actions led him into his fate. What I told Luke was clearly more along the lines of facts than just "a truth."

T: Leia's transmission suggested that you served her father during the Clone Wars?

OBW: Bail Organa was a Senator. In service to the Republic, I was partially in service to him as a Representative of the Republic. When it was clear that Palpatine was taking over and declaring there to be an Empire, Bail Organa stood in the minority of those who were secretly opposed to the Chancellor's despotism. When he was recalled for that fateful session of the Senate, Master Yoda and I were traveling with Senator Organa enroute to Coruscant to deactivate the homing beacon the Clones had set at the Jedi Temple. I was pledged to defend the Republic and ready to protect its Senator.

T: Let's move on to the Death Star. Onboard, upon seeing Darth Vader, you swung first. You attacked him?

OBW: His blade was already drawn - as had been his hate for me - years ago. I thought it was already too late for him. He blamed me for the loss of his wife - and his unborn child - for he didn't know at that point. And I suppose he always resented me holding him back from running to his mother while she was still alive. Add upon that the wounds he received and what must have been his eternal torture to recover from the burns he was afflicted with on Mustafar and there wasn't likely to be any forgiveness.

T: Yeah. Tough break. But you never could let him go off and find his mother even after you knew his dreams were troubling him?

OBW: To what ends? If Shmi was still a slave, Anakin and I had no jurisdiction outside of the Republic. It would have been a clearly selfish move to rescue her and none of the other slaves held in bondage out there. It might've even provoked the Hutts to side with a growing Separatist movement that had begun even back at the time of the Trade Federation blockade of Naboo. The Jedi didn't need to exacerbate the problem any further.

Then look at it this way: even if we had gone back and gotten Shmi -
She never would have known almost a decade of happiness with Cliegg Lars, living with love. That's what Anakin always wanted for her.

So what were we supposed to do with her even if we got her off Tatooine? She'd have been a shut-in at the Jedi Temple. While we had civilian administrators and maintainance workers cleared to work in the Temple - and his mother could have been - protecting her would have consumed as much of Anakin's passion as protecting Padme did in the end. It could have been doubly worse - the tragedy - had something happened to his mother on Coruscant. And again, we're back to guessing as to whether she'd have ever lived a complete life and found happiness and love. On Tatooine, as desolate as it was, she had found happiness and love.

Lastly, even if Anakin knew she'd been freed and moved away from Mos Espa, how long would he have slept easier? It didn't change what happened with the Tuskens. Perhaps if Watto still owned her she'd never have been in such danger so close to the Jundland Wastes? But it's all speculating next to the will of the Force. I can't engage in that any further.

T: Thank you Obi-Wan. So later after you became a specter, you appeared to Luke and told him to go to Dagobah to learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed you? But what of Qui-Gon?

OBW: I was taught by many Jedi Masters. Jocasta Nu instructed me in the library, and although he wasn't a Jedi, I found Dexter Jettster's instruction very useful. Mace Windu was intimidating, but valuable to confide in concerning my questions about training a boy of prophesy. However many relationships I had with other Jedi, ALL Jedi are instructed by Yoda when they are young. His dimunitive size but his large sense of humor, his patience, and his usually jovial nature has always been popular with the Younglings. Since even the older Jedi have lifespans 10 times shorter than Master Yoda's, all the Jedi in the temple recollect looking up to Master Yoda for advice. Qui-Gon no longer lived, and Luke Skywalker wouldn't know how to recognize his apparition if he could sense it. Yoda was alive, and real. The choice and the explaination should be obvious.

Besides, I was 24 years old when Qui-Gon was taken from me. I'd been his apprentice since I was 13 - almost half my life at the time. But it won't take you long to see that actually Master Yoda and my other teachers at the temple taught me for longer - and they were still alive when Qui-Gon was no longer.

T: Yoda said you were once reckless? Would you agree?

OBW: Unfortunately. In my youth I was too focused on action without much forethought. I discounted the value to our cause that JarJar Binks would play in the Naboo conflict because I didn't show patience for more handicapped beings. When Qui-Gon was slain, I charged in on Darth Maul, anxious to humiliate him as I proved I was the better swordsman. I saw him only as Qui-Gon's murderer and an obstacle for me to overcome to avenge my master. I forgot he was a Sith Lord and it was his calling upon the Force that threw me into that melting pit shaft. I would have died if I hadn't recalled my Jedi training, found my connection to the Force, and gave myself to its guidance to move myself and Qui-Gon's lightsaber. But even then, with that lesson learned at almost the ultimate price, I still was ready to refuse the wisdom of the Jedi Council and took it upon myself to train Anakin because it was Qui-Gon's last wish. I have never been honestly able to say that I was old enough and ready for such responsibilities. But I did my best. That was all I could offer.

T: Thank you Obi-Wan. We'll be back to learn some more Jedi Wisdom from you after this brief intermission.

DARKLORD_67
06-05-2005, 10:22 PM
Tycho, your editions of "Lucas Excuses" make for some EXCELLENT and entertaining reading.

I think you've done a SUUPERBLY creative job on these, and you are clearly a VERY talented writer!!

Congratulations and Very, Very Best Regards,

JimJamBonds
06-05-2005, 11:43 PM
I don't completly agree with you Sith Lord, yes they are two different sets of films but personally I can view them as one big 13ish hour movie. I don't think most people have any issues with I - III and that is a 13 yr span, I don't remember off hand how long it is from E's IV-VI but I don't belive it is anywhere near that long. There is some time between the various films yes, with the biggest jump between III and IV but I don't think its unmanageable. Each trilogy has its similar parts that bind them and there are plenty in my mind that connect the OT and the PT.

Jim Jam

Bacta Beast
06-06-2005, 12:24 AM
Hey Tycho,

Call Vader or Obi-Wan back and ask them what Vader meant when he said "You should not have come back here" on the first Death Star.

2-1B
06-06-2005, 01:29 AM
Jim Jam, I read an opinion in the Making Of Sith book that the OT is a coming of age story while the PT is more of an historical approach and therefore of different "Styles" . . . I like that idea. :)

I don't think the two trilogies need Reconciliation ("Bless me Father George, for I have sinned. It has been x since my last confession." lol ). Really though, I don't think they need reconciling. There are a couple of things that George turned upside down and presented in a way I wasn't expecting (Padme's death, for example). However, I definitely disagree that the films do not compliment and support each other.

Tycho
06-06-2005, 02:41 AM
Thank you for your letters. We're back from intermission and continuing with our interview of Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi.

T: So Obi-Wan, on Dagobah you appeared to Luke and told him, "Don't give in to hate. That leads to the Dark Side."

You said you didn't want to lose Luke to the Emperor the same way you lost Vader. Can you elaborate on this? The situations do not look THAT identical.

OBW: The situations are not totally identical, but Yoda taught us that fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering the pitfalls of the Dark Side.

Anakin feared the loss of his mother, realized it before his eyes, and then turned to anger and hatred towards the Tusken Raiders. Later, he suffered from the guilt of what he'd done, and he could never take that back - replace the lives he'd caused to be lost.

History repeated itself when he faced the prospect of losing Padme. I don't know that she would have died with the utmost certainty, but interpreting dreams, premonitions - they're not always clear even for Jedi. Anakin feared her loss, and he already carried anger towards Mace Windu. I know now that he didn't intend to kill Mace, but to serve what he thought was justice: by sparing Palpatine's life and stopping Mace, rather than killing him. Anakin thought he'd balance things out. Then maybe they'd try Palpatine before the Senate, but the Dark Lord and all his knowledge would still have survived. He thought he'd defeat his fear of losing Padme by saving the knowledge he saw Palpatine as the repository for, and he tried to very rashly quench his anger at Mace Windu, someone Anakin saw as hindering his efforts.

Well, Anakin's anger did lead him to hate - Anakin hated himself and what he'd become. Unable to deal with his feelings, he went looking for someone else to blame and he chose me. Heavy is the burden of my heart.

Anyway, with Luke, Vader thought he'd tempt him towards the Dark Side the same way that Palpatine had tempted him. Luke hurried off to Cloud City because he feared losing Leia and Han Solo. He turned his fear into anger at Vader for hurting his friends, and Vader tried to feed Luke's hate as they dueled, to urge the boy to use the full potential of his anger to focus his power. It might have actually worked had Vader not been a better swordsman. He defeated his own effort when he defeated Luke on Bespin.

T: Are you saying that Vader should have let Luke kill him in anger?

OBW: A true Sith interested in luring Luke totally towards the Dark Side might have. Perhaps had Palpatine let Luke destroy him, it might've better suited their aims. Luke was young. The Sith needed fresh blood. Palpatine was older and possibly dying, and Vader was living off of machines. In the end of that debacle on Bespin, Vader offered Luke power if he'd join him. He revealed to his son his true lineage.

But I think since I was willing to give myself over to the Force only several years earlier, I gave Luke a cause to fight against his father's power with. Because he thought he saw Vader destroy me, he wouldn't betray his allegiance to me by joining his father. Vader could not undo what my sacrafice had done.

That is the difference between a Sith and a Jedi. The Jedi are selfless and give themselves and their lives if necessary, all for the greater cause.

T: Well Luke eventually did defeat Vader in combat.

OBW: Yes, well at that point Luke was driven by rage and was given over to the Dark Side. We almost lost him at Endor. And Vader certainly didn't fight to kill him. He wanted his son alive to destroy the Emperor. Yet he underestimated his ability to defend himself once his son's wrath was truly unleashed.

T: Yeah, Vader goaded Luke on, threatening to turn his attentions onto his sister.

OBW: I had told Luke that to protect them both from the Emperor, they were hidden from their father when they were born.

T: So Padme was burried "pregnant."

OBW: Unfortunately, yes. We had to make it appear that way - that her child died with her. And until the time the kids were born, no one knew that there was going to be twins.

T: So did you know that Anakin was still alive - if barely at that time? To hide his offspring from him that way?

OBW: No, I didn't know for sure. I'd left him for dead, but maybe I thought I'd have still felt some certainty if Anakin had truly died. But I no longer had that Force connection with my former friend and padawan - not since Anakin had turned to the Dark Side. But hiding the twins was more to protect them from Palpatine.

T: You mentioned your friendship with Anakin. Let's talk about your relationship with him a little more.

You said when you first knew him, he was already a great pilot?

OBW: Yeah, he'd just won his freedom with Qui-Gon who bet that he'd win the Boonta Classic.

T: Does podracing count as piloting?

OBW: Of course? Can you fly through the Dragon's Teeth at 600 mph?

T: Not and survive trying.

OBW: My point.

Anakin also flew a Naboo starfighter and blew up the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship, saving thousands of lives from their battle droid armies.

T: Wasn't that an accident?

OBW: Qui-Gon used to say nothing happens by chance. Anakin's actions were the will of the Force. And his skills as a pilot did let him land in their hanger bay after having been shot - not to mention his daring escape.

T: That's another good point.

OBW: Regardless of how it happened, for those of us on the ground, the simple facts were that this kid flew a N-1 Fighter up into the heart of the droid control ship, torpedoed it, and blew the Trade Federation's battle plans sky high. That's not heroic?

T: You said you were amazed how strongly the Force was with him and took it upon yourself to train Anakin? You thought you could teach him just as well as Yoda.

OBW: I think anyone would be amazed that this 9 year old kid defeated the Trade Federation. That took an incredible amount of will by the Force. Because Qui-Gon asked me to, or because it was my own well-thought-out choice, I still took it upon myself to train Anakin.

Yoda disagreed with me teaching him. Anakin was too old, and even moreover, I was too young. I was 24 years old and I thought I had just as much experience to judge these matters as Yoda who was 864 at the time? That was my mistake. I think Yoda knew a little bit more about what he was talking about than the reckless young padawan I'd been at the time.

T: So it's all your fault?

OBW: Don't look at me. I didn't draw the Ewoks into this conflict. (laughs).

T: Thank you very much for sharing with us today, Master Obi-Wan.

OBW: Oh, you're very welcome and May the Force Be With You.



Well that wraps up this edition of "Lucas' Excuses." We hope you've enjoyed our program.

Have a favorite guest you'd like to see on our program? Please write in your suggestions. If we use your idea, we could let you make a guest appearance yourself and ask our celebrity visitors your own questions.

Until next time on Lucas' Excuses, may Banthas Fly!

2-1B
06-06-2005, 12:53 PM
Well done Tycho, on the part about "losing you like I did Vader." :)

Also, Obi-Wan was surprised at Anakin's midichlorian count. ;)

JediTricks
06-07-2005, 12:57 AM
I would like to see them try and do what Uncle George did back in 1975-83 when he first filmed The OT. Then take a break from that part of your life for the next 16 years and the film the PT, see how much you remember over the course of that 16 year rest.Yeah, because it's not like he had infinite access to the original films and every single note he ever took about writing it, nearly all of which he had archived. :rolleyes:


For a moment just imagine that back in lets say 1974 Uncle George sat down and wrote out the entire story from start to finish. Now we are talking from our first introduction of Anakin to his death. But Because it was so much to fit into one movie, it gets broken down. Now as a writer, if there is something I wrote last year that plays part in a bigger story that I am writing, unless I go back and re-read what I wrote (which is obvious that George didn't, but anyways) it is going to be difficul to make parts of the story line up the way that fans think they should. And even if I go back and fix the things that I was unhappy with (OTSE) I run the risk of having fans hate me because I wanted to change something that I didn't like. Is that fair? Except that it didn't happen that way. Lucas took 2 years of his life and wrote what became the OT, ANH through ROTJ, during that time he researched mythos and character archetypes and really went to town. Then as he was putting together the screenplay, in order to help write the character relationships and personnaes, he created little backstories for certain key characters which he never intended to film or to show, as that would completely defeat the point of "Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope" (that being the serial that the audience is thrust into, having missed the episode at the theater 2 weeks ago and being totally in the dark). There were never any "prequels" there, no story he intended to tell, just margin notes to help flesh out the movies he was planning to make which became the OT.

As for his 'going back to fix the things he was unhappy with', besides the effects we get the Jabba scene which adds nothing, the original intent of the scene was to set up another element for something 2 films down the road, and in fact Lucas did write and include a different scene (Greedo) that did this job just as well without altering that later film even though it didn't SHOW Jabba (I would argue that the ANH Jabba scene actually alters the character arc of Han Solo and Jabba the Hutt, thus doing the opposite of Lucas's intention here). As for changing the Greedo scene, claiming he didn't like how the original played makes no sense as he himself wrote and directed that scene the first time around and could just as easily had it play the way it does now. I don't know what Lucas was getting at with adding OR cutting the scene near the end when Luke talks to Biggs and Red Leader though.

Droid
06-07-2005, 07:43 AM
I don't know what Lucas was getting at with adding OR cutting the scene near the end when Luke talks to Biggs and Red Leader though.

Maybe he cut it because he correctly realized that mentioning Biggs once at the beginning of the movie and cutting the other Biggs scenes meant that the majority of the audience seeing it for the first time woudl not remember Luke had mentioned Biggs earlier and not realize this was Luke's childhood friend.

Moreover, maybe he correctly realized that the Red Leader dialogue is ridiculous. First he's commando harsh, "Skywalker, can you fly this thing, you little backwater punk?" Then with one word from Biggs he says, "You'll do fine", gives Luke a game show host smile, and all but kisses him on the mouth. It is the quickest shift in behavior I've seen since Anakin!

Lucas put the Biggs scene back because he wanted the fans to have additional scenes, so that they would feel the new edition of the film was "special".

JediTricks
06-08-2005, 07:25 PM
Well, with the Red Leader thing, originally the scene played a little differently, Red Leader took Biggs's comment and then added his own retelling of when he met Anakin Skywalker, "I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's skill, you'll do better than all right." (that's from the screenplay, but that part was filmed and the SE intercut it to remove the Anakin part by passing an actor in front of the scene to hide the jump cut (the tech on the left of the screen disappears and there are other people there in his place).

Of course, inserting this pointless scene really does feel off and seem to be included purely for arbitrary reason.

2-1B
06-09-2005, 12:27 AM
I like the Biggs scene for 2 reasons:

1) it doesn't seem so goofy that Luke was talking about Biggs in the homestead and then later on he's asking for him but they never showed them reuniting. :)

2) it reminds me of Hot Shots and that guy who planned to share with his wife the secret details of JFK's murder AFTER he got back from his flight but of course he died up there. Same with Biggs, he told Luke he would hear all about those stories when they got back. lol

CaptainSolo1138
06-09-2005, 09:52 AM
2) it reminds me of Hot Shots and that guy who planned to share with his wife the secret details of JFK's murder AFTER he got back from his flight but of course he died up there. Same with Biggs, he told Luke he would hear all about those stories when they got back. lol
And may Pete "Dead Meat" Thompson rest in peace :cry:

princethomas
06-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Well, with the Red Leader thing, originally the scene played a little differently, Red Leader took Biggs's comment and then added his own retelling of when he met Anakin Skywalker, "I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's skill, you'll do better than all right."


Is this true??? Man, thats interesting

JediTricks
06-10-2005, 08:45 PM
It's absolutely true.



it doesn't seem so goofy that Luke was talking about Biggs in the homestead and then later on he's asking for him but they never showed them reuniting. You mean when Luke says "Blast it Biggs, where are you?" That line is barely audible on most pre-SE edits of the film (rumor has it that one edit of the movie he says "Blast it Wedge..." but I don't think I believe it), it's not enough for me to accomodate reintroducing the scene. It's not as if we were told earlier in the film that Biggs went and joined the Empire, all we got about him in the Lars Homestead was that "Biggs is right, I'm never gonna get out of here" - hardly solid reasoning to insert a scene later in the film, Luke could have just as easily said Tank, Camie, Fixer, Deak, or Windy since the scene where Biggs actually said that part isn't in the film and Lucas never liked it anyway. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel that way, I just don't think any of that adds up to solid reasoning to put this scene back into the movie.

I suppose when Luke goes to make his final run on the DS, he calls Biggs and Wedge, that's the closest I can see to actually being a reason to include it, but it seems thin to me.

2-1B
06-11-2005, 12:21 AM
Not thin to me, as a kid I heard him say Biggs and Biggs is actually mentioned twice in ANH, the one you mentioned about "Biggs was right" and also the other one about "that's what you said when Biggs and Tank left."

:)

JediTricks
06-11-2005, 02:44 AM
So everybody who was ever mentioned must be onscreen? What about Tank, shouldn't his scenes have been restored, he's in the line too? What about Darth Plagueis and Sifo Dyas and Bail Antilles? What about seeing Anchorhead and Toshi Station and Dantooine and Ord Mantell?

Mad Slanted Powers
06-11-2005, 11:33 AM
Biggs appears quite prominently in the final battle sequence though. So to have Biggs mentioned early in the film and then all of a sudden he just happens to be in the battle doesn't work as well. Also, by showing them reunite and agree to catch up on things afterwards, it makes the death of Biggs more dramatic.

DarthAngel
06-11-2005, 01:07 PM
Biggs appears quite prominently in the final battle sequence though. So to have Biggs mentioned early in the film and then all of a sudden he just happens to be in the battle doesn't work as well. Also, by showing them reunite and agree to catch up on things afterwards, it makes the death of Biggs more dramatic.


Well said Posty.

There are things that are mentioned in both the OT and PT that for some reason or another George never expanded upon. Luckily for us though, a lot of writers have done what Geogre failed to do, and I hate to say it cause I know how many people hate to hear these two words, but I'm gonna say them, I hesitate, for they have awesome power. EXPANDED UNIVERSE...it touches on several issuses and places and characters that are mentioned in passing in the movies.

2-1B
06-12-2005, 12:32 AM
JT, I don't know where that came from but you're way off the mark there. My reply would have been pretty much exactly what Posty said.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-12-2005, 01:58 PM
Well said Posty.


I have been known to be right...from time to time.

JediTricks
06-12-2005, 11:28 PM
Biggs appears quite prominently in the final battle sequence though. So to have Biggs mentioned early in the film and then all of a sudden he just happens to be in the battle doesn't work as well. Also, by showing them reunite and agree to catch up on things afterwards, it makes the death of Biggs more dramatic.Yeah, but he's just another guy in that battle like Porkins, what if Porkins' first name had been "Biggs"? Wedge Antilles and Captain Antilles are both in the film but aren't the same guy (I know, it's a cheap shot since we only hear "Wedge" on-screen for the character's name, but the idea is essentially the same once we know he's Wedge Antilles). A more apt reference might be hearing about Bail Antilles and Bail Organa, but I dunno. It's not like we as the audience absolutely would know that it's Biggs Darklighter up there in the end sequence if Luke hadn't mentioned the name "Biggs" briefly during the battle, he'd just be another of the 30 or so Rebel pilots in that battle, so I question how necessary it is that we actually see him talking to Luke beforehand, it's not like we got a scene with Wedge having a chat with Luke and getting all chummy.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-13-2005, 01:19 AM
Yeah, but he's just another guy in that battle like Porkins, what if Porkins' first name had been "Biggs"? Wedge Antilles and Captain Antilles are both in the film but aren't the same guy (I know, it's a cheap shot since we only hear "Wedge" on-screen for the character's name, but the idea is essentially the same once we know he's Wedge Antilles). A more apt reference might be hearing about Bail Antilles and Bail Organa, but I dunno. It's not like we as the audience absolutely would know that it's Biggs Darklighter up there in the end sequence if Luke hadn't mentioned the name "Biggs" briefly during the battle, he'd just be another of the 30 or so Rebel pilots in that battle, so I question how necessary it is that we actually see him talking to Luke beforehand, it's not like we got a scene with Wedge having a chat with Luke and getting all chummy.

My point is he's not just another guy in the battle. He's one of the three on the final run, and when he asks Luke if they will be able to pull out in time, he says "it will be just like Beggar's Canyon back home". So, without the hangar scene, we still might realize it is the same Biggs he talked about on Tatooine, but we might wonder why there wasn't some happy reunion between two old friends.

I will admit that the scene seems somehow not to fit, but that is due to the shortness of it and the placement of it. I would have had them meet earlier, perhaps in the pilot briefing.

2-1B
06-13-2005, 01:21 AM
Okay, so if the idea is essentially the same since we know he's Wedge Antilles (from the EU) then how is that not the same as knowing he's Biggs from Tatooine ? :confused:

I, in the audience, didn't know it was Biggs Darklighter but I knew it was Biggs and I connected it to the Tatooine Biggs (all without the benefit of reading EU or the internet). :)

JediTricks
06-13-2005, 02:04 AM
My point is he's not just another guy in the battle. He's one of the three on the final run, and when he asks Luke if they will be able to pull out in time, he says "it will be just like Beggar's Canyon back home". So, without the hangar scene, we still might realize it is the same Biggs he talked about on Tatooine, but we might wonder why there wasn't some happy reunion between two old friends. But Wedge is also in the final run, so Biggs and Wedge from the POV of that scene in ANH as it played before literally are just 2 other guys in the battle - they may as well have been that unknown guy in the Y-wing. Is "we *might* wonder..." a necessary reason to re-introduce the scene? I don't know about that. Luke was telling Wedge about bullseyeing womprats in his T-16 back home, that reference to Beggars Canyon could have been to Wedge... I always figured Luke was just kinda "saying" it, for a time I didn't even know who Biggs Darklighter was and the scene played out just fine.


I will admit that the scene seems somehow not to fit, but that is due to the shortness of it and the placement of it. I would have had them meet earlier, perhaps in the pilot briefing.The shortness and placement are both how they originally played before they were edited out, the SE's missing dialogue is 1 sentence and it's not from Biggs. So with that in hand, we still are left with the question of necessity of that scene, to include or not to include?



Okay, so if the idea is essentially the same since we know he's Wedge Antilles (from the EU) then how is that not the same as knowing he's Biggs from Tatooine ? :confused:
That's why I said it was a cheap shot.


I, in the audience, didn't know it was Biggs Darklighter but I knew it was Biggs and I connected it to the Tatooine Biggs Don't be that guy, don't be the hair-splitter, did you not know what I meant?

2-1B
06-13-2005, 02:44 AM
I'm not splitting hairs, really. I just mean that for me the whole Darklighter name is an EU thing whereas I genuinely believe that to be the same Biggs he was talking about at the beginning of the picture. :)

And don't tell me what kind of guy to be, okay ? :D
J/K :crazed:

Mad Slanted Powers
06-13-2005, 06:43 PM
So with that in hand, we still are left with the question of necessity of that scene, to include or not to include?

I say include. Maybe it is because the scene was in the movie the first time I saw it, or from reading the novel, but I always felt the death of Biggs was significant not just because it left Luke alone up there, but because this was his good friend from back home.

JediTricks
06-14-2005, 07:32 PM
That's not necessity to the plot though, only to a side-tangent. The question is whether it's a necessity to include this scene, not whether it'd be a nice addition.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-14-2005, 08:54 PM
That's not necessity to the plot though, only to a side-tangent. The question is whether it's a necessity to include this scene, not whether it'd be a nice addition.
Oh, in that case, we could probably cut out a lot of the movie. In fact, I still have my Story of Star Wars audio cassette that was probably 90 minutes at most. Actual movie audio with Roscoe Lee Browne narrating.