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Tycho
06-12-2005, 09:28 PM
What will someone seeing them in Episode Order think?

Did you guys know that there were GUYS out there who are around our age who have never seen ANY Star Wars movie?

I'll ask him why and post his answer here as well.

I took it for granted he'd seen the other films. He is a buddy of mine I work out with and part of my "Strike Team" posse for Tuesday Night showings of "The Shield" (F/X Emmy Award winning cop show in gang-land Los Angeles).

He's seen my SW collection but never been too interested. I always assumed that was because he'd seen the stuff and it bored him, would cost him too much to collect, or he just wasn't a fan. It never occured to me that he hadn't seen the movies!

But I will seek clarity: if he's never seen ANY of the movies, or just not any of the prequels.

But I DO think it's NONE of them!

Tonight he has time to watch The Phantom Menace. I know he is busy with his college summer school courses, but how soon will he want to see Attack of the Clones if TPM is his first SW exposure?

Does episode order work for adults.

TPM is more a kids' movie, with the story very intentionally getting darker and staying darker until ROTJ's Ewoks. TPM and a lot of AOTC were meant to show how the galaxy was before the war came - and what Jedi were like before they were generals or hunted-down exiles.


So will my friend proceed to watch all the movies? ROTS may be seen by him in the theater, but we do have the option of the bootleg DVD if I can borrow it from my friend - but I'm seeing it again in the theater regardless. Therefore I'd prefer it if my new Star Wars pal sees the show on the big screen and wished he could actually see all the shows that way...

Oh well.

Anyway, now we have the chance to get an adult's response who is not comparing any childhood memories of loving the classics to the newness of the prequels, none of that.

We'll see how he likes it all. What he's interested in watching and knowing about. Who his favorite characters are, etc.


BTW, after everything, and she'd seen the classics once a long time ago, my girlfriend, having just watched the prequels with me and ROTS in the theater with me twice, prefers the Original Trilogy.

She does not like Anakin.
She likes Obi-Wan throughout all the movies.
She thinks Palpatine steals the show in ROTS.
She loves Yoda in all the movies, ROTS and ESB the most.
She thinks Princess Leia rocks way more than Padme.
She likes Luke.
She loves Han Solo.

I think she likes ESB and ROTJ the best. And she really does love Ewoks!



I will keep you updated on the newest initiate to our cult.

Stay tuned...

JediTricks
06-12-2005, 09:59 PM
Naturally, I feel episode order is the absolute wrong way to go, I think if you read what I put together in this thread:
http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=28846
you'll see why. In a nutshell though, the Star Wars trilogy was about telling the "story told a thousand times over the past few thousand years", spinning together those special myths in a manner that could appeal to modern audiences through the use of the perfection of the 1940s movie serial sci-fi genre. Characters were based off of archetypes so they would be easily recognizable and familiar to audiences so those audiences could get on with a story told in an unfamiliar setting, and those characters had very small backstories which were written only to help tell the story of the OT. The serial aspect was there to let audiences know that they never were going to know what came before, they missed Episode 3 and had to jump in without almost any set-up. However, I feel that the prequels do away with all of this, there aren't using character archetypes, there is no mythos spinning together, there is no simplicity, so the prequels are more an EU-style reward for existing Star Wars fans who wanted a little more "fun" or something, therefore if you start someone at Episode I, you would actually be taking away from the entire point of the original Star Wars - you may love Shadows of the Empire, but you know it's not really what the Star Wars movies are about. That's my feeling anyway.

Tycho
06-13-2005, 01:00 AM
OK: He'd never seen ANY Star Wars movie before, and I showed him EPISODE ONE first.

It is only minutes after my friend went home after seeing the movie.

I had the chance to take note of his first impressions and can write them before I can forget anything:


1) He said it was definitely good. He liked it and would surely want to watch the rest of the Star Wars films.

2) He said it was not the best movie he'd ever seen, but it was entertaining.

3) He thought the Niemoidians talked like and represented Asians.

4) He liked JarJar Binks and thought he was funny and laughed at his antics in the beginning (on Naboo).

5) On JarJar, he later found him annoying as he said his antics just kept going on and on - (Tatooine). During the final battle, it was a mixed lot. "General JarJar - wesa think of somethin!" - "I give up! I give up!" cracked him up.

6) On a final analysis of JarJar - it was funny, but too much. A little less would have worked for him - but not eliminating the character's antics altogether.

7) He guessed that Padme was the Queen when she wanted to accompany Qui-Gon on Tatooine. I didn't acknowledge that one way or the other. Then during the scene when Anakin goes looking for her on Coruscant and meets the Queen, he thought that maybe he'd been wrong. Later when Padme reveals her true identity to Boss Nass, he was once again happy to have had that mystery to think about.

8) He liked Padme / Queen Amidala's character and thought she was cute.

9) He thought the film was "old school style" in that when Qui-Gon was killed, he had 10 more minutes to live just so he could give his "last dying words." Perhaps a modern show would rob a character of that to make it more tragic. However, since I have hindsight (forsight) whatever, I know that was done to allow Obi-Wan to pledge to train Anakin.

10) What he really liked:

- The space battle at the end

- The Pod Race

- The lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul

- The blaster battle between the droids and Padme and her guards


11) What he wanted:

The Naboo to fight the Trade Federation invasion in the beginning when Queen Amidala said "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."


12) He was completely oblivious to Palpatine! He did not pick up on the political story at all, or think Palpatine was scheming, evil, or even corrupt - that I could tell. He made no comments about Palpatine at all! Watching Palpatine's revelation could be fun with this one!

13) All he'd seen of any Star Wars movie that he recalls was a glimpse of someone walking through the desert. He thinks he remembers seeing a part of the pod race, but cannot be sure. He might have remembered C-3PO walking through the desert for all we know.

14) He has no idea that Anakin Skywalker will become Darth Vader!

15) He has no idea that the other movies are darker, more adult, and get better. I can see how he'll rank them. He already wants to keep watching. My guess is that he'll find AOTC to be better than TPM. Between those two, wouldn't you guess that as well? He'll have nothing else to compare them to.

Keep in mind that he's 22. This is possibly a perfect experiment.

We will watch Episode 2 probably Thursday or Friday, as his summer school requires a lot of work on research papers and a group project. Summer classes for college credit compact a lot. I remember those. Tough times.

But he missed last week's "Shield" and I have to tape that (on Monday's rerun) and possibly Tuesday night's for him unless he can break away to watch them both on Tuesday. My guess is that "The Shield" will take priority over Star Wars for him because he's been a fan of the cop show for far longer and he has more invested in those characters and its build up to the season finale.

Meanwhile, I'd welcome your guys' opinions on his reaction to THE PHANTOM MENACE.

I'll answer questions too if I can.

2-1B
06-13-2005, 01:09 AM
Good job, Tycho !

One bit of advice though, DON'T tell this newbie that there is a whole internet subculture of devoted fans involved, or he might be turned off on account of the creepiness factor. lol

Slicker
06-13-2005, 01:58 AM
This guy is indeed a rare find Tycho. I don't agree with you're showing him the Prequels first, but to each his own. I hope everything pans out well with this one and that he joins the rest of us nuts in worshipping the Holy Saga.

2-1B
06-13-2005, 02:46 AM
I agree with Slicker, you should have started with the OT.

That way, when he gets to the best movie in the saga, Revenge of the Sith, he doesn't have to move down to a not-as-great movie when he watches the next episode. :)

jjreason
06-13-2005, 03:35 AM
See, to me the perfect experiment would involve getting a Clone of this Padawan, and showing the other the OT first. What I'd want to compare would be the reactions of both newbies to the following:

OT vs. PT lightsaber play. Would the new fan seeing the PT first be let down by the old-school saber battles?

"No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment. If only, IF ONLY it hadn't been spoiled for me as a kid by some schoolyard idiot, I may have fainted in the theater. The fact that this surprise will be ruined for him is very sad. You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice. :)

OT vs. PT space battles. I think this is one aspect where the quality of the space battles is going to get better and better for newbie as the episodes progress. To me, Ep I is redundant. EpII is almost non-existant, and EpIII starts with a bang. The OT, though, is where the space battles and chases are truly exciting and climactic parts of the movies.

Preference between Padme and Leia. Padme might be a little cuter, but Leia's character was just WAY stronger and more interesting. The more I watch the the OT the more I like Princess Leia - sadly, I don't care for Padme at all.

Opinions on the settings. For someone who watches the PT first, will the settings in the OT seem a little boring? Hoth will still be very fresh, but he will have seen lots of forest by the time Endor roles around. I'm sure the gang at Lucasfilm was challenged by the job of keeping the new planets fresh and interesting - there's only so many environments on earth to base alien ones on.

Opinions on the "appearance of technology" in the trilogies. Will the newbie find it weird that the displays and technology in ANH look completely Flintstonian compared to the beautiful detailed holo-displays that are commonplace in the PT - which took place 30 years earlier?

Either way, for the love of God, you have to show him the NON-SE version of A New Hope. Han shot first, Tycho. Han shot fiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrst!!!!!!!!!! :crazed:

Slicker
06-13-2005, 05:38 AM
"No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment. If only, IF ONLY it hadn't been spoiled for me as a kid by some schoolyard idiot, I may have fainted in the theater. The fact that this surprise will be ruined for him is very sad. You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice. :)
This is the one point on why I would've shown him the OT first. This is quite possibly the biggest shocker in movie history. Seeing Anakin turn into Vader in the PT just wasn't played that big because Lucas made the Prequels KNOWING that people already knew who Vader used to be so he didn't play it as such. It's good that you could share SW with him but you should've done it right and started where everyone else started, with ANH. That's just my opinion though.:D

Tycho
06-13-2005, 12:09 PM
Your points about Vader's secret identity are well taken. Before I knew anything about ROTS, walking out of AOTC, I thought:

- Anakin would be kicked out of the Jedi Order for marrying and become Palpatine's bodyguard (so the 2nd part sort of happened)

- Obi-Wan would get a new apprentice, plagued by difficulties coming of age during the war (and it's left uncertain if this apprentice is really killed).

- It's made to look like Anakin dies on Mustafar for certain. Vader could then be Obi-Wan's 2nd apprentice, as a scene between Vader and Obi-Wan where Obi-Wan is given "a last chance to escape for old time's sake" and a warning to never come back would cloud people's certainty (who see the films in episode order) as to Vader's identity until ESB. Lucas opted not to go that route.


I agree with Slicker, you should have started with the OT.

That way, when he gets to the best movie in the saga, Revenge of the Sith, he doesn't have to move down to a not-as-great movie when he watches the next episode.

Yes, but this way we get to find out if that will be the case: will he be disappointed in the Original Trilogy?


See, to me the perfect experiment would involve getting a Clone of this Padawan, and showing the other the OT first.

Yes, but that's ALL OF US. We already know how that turns out. Most of our group seem to be Original Trilogy lovers primarily, with some strong positive feelings about Revenge of the Sith.

Some amongst us are old-school fans who like the Prequels better or on par (I like them on par) with the Original Trilogy.

Some like Stillakid, almost hate the Prequel Trilogy, and JediTricks is saying "they aren't Star Wars." So we have that reaction.

Stillakid was shown the OT first, then he saw the Prequel Trilogy. And now we get his opinion on it.

One thing that's different is that ALL OF YOU fell in love with Star Wars' Original Trilogy as KIDS and filed these movies away as classics for yourselves because of your childhood impression of them. Then you saw a more childish movie TPM, as an adult, while you were waiting in line for hours expecting something more dark and mature like ANH.

Let's see where my experimental subject finds his tastes leading him towards.

BTW: DO YOU GUYS THINK HE'LL LIKE AOTC BETTER THAN TPM? You haven't responded to that.


OT vs. PT lightsaber play. Would the new fan seeing the PT first be let down by the old-school saber battles?

Maybe. But if you watched them in order, with no EU information, you'd wonder how well the robotic Vader can function - if he's as inept as General Grievous with a lightsaber now. (come'on, Grievous had 4 and Obi-Wan was going to literally disarm him one by one if Obi-Wan hadn't decided to not waste any more time with him once the Clones attacked.)

You'd also know that Luke was Vader's son, and while you were waiting for Luke to discover that, you might think based on Anakin's/Vader's character and his dedication to his family, THAT HE WAS NOT EVER TRYING TO KILL LUKE.

You'd also think and even by ROTJ, see, that Luke never had as much skill as the Jedi of old, but had a raw, untrained style. Luke was at his best during the attack on Jabba's sailbarge where the Force was just taking over him.


"No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment.

So what will be the crux to him? That's what we're going to find out. Which movie will shock him the most? I think with his attraction to Padme's character, when she dies in ROTS, that will start him. I also think that Palpatine's revelation will surprise him. He doesn't see Palpatine coming.


You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice.

For "Luke, I am your father?" - I have all of you. I didn't see ESB in the theaters for the first time with you - but I reacted to that the same year you guys did. I know how I felt "No that's not true! That's impossible!" and you guys know and can post with certainty how you felt.


OT vs. PT space battles. I think this is one aspect where the quality of the space battles is going to get better and better for newbie as the episodes progress. To me, Ep I is redundant. EpII is almost non-existant, and EpIII starts with a bang. The OT, though, is where the space battles and chases are truly exciting and climactic parts of the movies.

I agree. The OT gave us pilots we really cared about: Luke and Wedge, Lando in the final movie's addition. I think Lucas intentionally left them superior. ROTJ is still one of the best space battles ever filmed! While ROTS had a hot space battle scene, I think they didn't do more (with ARC fighters etc.) because if they just showed our heroes crash landing on Grievous' ship it wouldn't out-do our later heroes actually destroying a whole battle station, and then another one with an Imperial Fleet to boot with it.

If my experimental subject liked space battles, ROTS, ANH, the asteroid field in ESB, and especially ROTJ will be a huge treat!


Preference between Padme and Leia. Padme might be a little cuter, but Leia's character was just WAY stronger and more interesting. The more I watch the the OT the more I like Princess Leia - sadly, I don't care for Padme at all.

Except that she does like Padme's character - this is my girlfriend's reaction as well. She totally thinks Leia is smarter, more deliberate, stronger, and Leia is always right. Her mother made the gravest of errors in trusting Anakin and Palpatine. (My girlfriend really connects to female characters almost exclusively, so she needs a strong leading lady. Again, Leia does that for her, Padme does not.)


Opinions on the settings. For someone who watches the PT first, will the settings in the OT seem a little boring? Hoth will still be very fresh, but he will have seen lots of forest by the time Endor roles around.

Possibly. Maybe the OT will seem like it's supposed to: the heroes are refugees of Palpatine's regime and they are hiding out in places that are nowhere. With the OT Special Editions though, you forget how "updated" they made Cloud City. I think Bespin has a lot more to offer in terms of looking like it matches the modern sets of the Prequel Trilogy. Tatooine looks the same - Mos Espa/Mos Eisley/ The moisture farm - same difference. Hoth and Endor are Hoth and Endor. Hoth is unique in the entire saga. Dagobah and Endor are not any more or less impressive than Naboo (and it's Gungan swamps) so they'll fit alright.

I will not prompt my friend to say anything, but we'll see if he does.

Oh - last but hardly least, the Death Star is a unique environment, but is a closed-up space station (with TIE Fighters but not much else in the way of air traffic and scenic views).


Opinions on the "appearance of technology" in the trilogies. Will the newbie find it weird that the displays and technology in ANH look completely Flintstonian compared to the beautiful detailed holo-displays that are commonplace in the PT - which took place 30 years earlier?

Again, that goes with the settings. Trade Federation MTTs had repulsar lifts, so does Luke's landspeeder. The Sandcrawler was even bigger than an MTT. The Rebel's ships are held together with spit and chewing gum. Palpatine has all the money and spends it on less costly ships (TIEs vs V-wings) once he needs more and more of them, produced more quickly.

The Naboo Starships were for the wealthy and powerful. Han Solo owned a tramp freighter. Luke said "What a piece of junk!"

Star Destroyers and Republic Victory Class Destroyers are about the same.

Clones are improvements over battle droids.

Holograms and viewscreens?

We didn't see Mas Ameeda appear on the Tantive IV in ANH - but we didn't need to.

Leia's "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" was any worse than Sidious' "Not for a Sith!" hologram? Neither she, nor Palpatine, or Luke's holo in Jabba's Palace were sitting, so we didn't need a holo of a Jedi Council.

The tactical screens on Geonosis, R2's holo of Theed, etc were not affordable or needed in ANH or ESB. The Rebels had only what they could afford anyway. In ROTJ, they had a pretty sweet hologram of the Death Star that was likely a copy of the same one Dooku had on Geonosis. Well, technologicall speaking. They were different Death Stars of course.


Either way, for the love of God, you have to show him the NON-SE version of A New Hope. Han shot first, Tycho. Han shot fiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrst!!!!!!!!!!

I know, but he likes space battles and the SE ANH space battle is so much superior to the original. Jabba's also in the SE DVD, and looks good to me too. Besides, this experiment is to show him "Star Wars Today."

I hate Greedo shooting first more than any other SE change (most of which I don't hate but rather like).



Seeing Anakin turn into Vader in the PT just wasn't played that big because Lucas made the Prequels KNOWING that people already knew who Vader used to be so he didn't play it as such.

We don't know how he'll react to ROTS and Anakin's fall. Will he foresee it by Episode 2 when "I killed them. I killed them all. And not just the men. But the women, and the children, too! They're like animals. And I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!!!"

Anyway, I've made my other points. No need to be redundant. I'll respond to your new posts and be sure to update you as soon as he's seen AOTC.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-13-2005, 12:33 PM
This is very interesting. I can't believe he doesn't know that Anakin is Darth Vader! I thought that was a big part of popular culture - or at least, "I am your father." It's cool that he doesn't know about Palpatine and Sidious. It'll be fun to see how this experiment pans out. :)

stillakid
06-13-2005, 01:05 PM
One thing that's different is that ALL OF YOU fell in love with Star Wars' Original Trilogy as KIDS and filed these movies away as classics for yourselves because of your childhood impression of them. Then you saw a more childish movie TPM, as an adult, while you were waiting in line for hours expecting something more dark and mature like ANH.
How is this not insulting to those of us who have the capacity to look at the OT with objective adult eyes and still see how well they were done? :mad:

I swear, I get kicked to the curb anytime I allegedly backhand someone's "worship" or "apologies" of the Prequels, but "Defenders" are allowed to slog this kind of bu**sh** anytime they feel like it. It demeans not only children (assuming they can't comprehend a well constructed story) but it insults those of us who aren't merely "trapped" inside some kind of Star Wars-itus.

As to your last sentence, that we were "waiting for something more dark and mature like ANH," I'd disagree. What "we" were waiting for was a Star Wars movie that continued in line with the established continuity, tone, and "feel" that was Star Wars. What came instead was a Saturday morning cartoon with two major set pieces (NASCAR/Lightsaber duel) and some lame story elements tossed in between. Decidely, "un-Star Wars" to my "adult" eyes. :rolleyes:


With that out of the way, this is an interesting experiment, though in terms of believing the results, it would be more beneficial to have someone else sitting there with you, someone who isn't that enthralled with the Prequels, to ensure an objective viewing experience and a post mortum discussion uninfluenced by...shall we say, "undo" respect ;) given the films. I'm sure you're doing your best to stay absolutely quiet and give this guy a chance to form his own opinions, but put him in a room with one of us so we can lob questions at him and then see where it goes. :evil: I predict a lot of "oh yeah, now that you mention it..." kind of moments arising. What would have made this experience even better would be to have 2 of these people...one to show the films in episode order and one to show in production order...then see the discussion that takes place afterward, prompted, but not impeded by the likes of us. I'd pay to see that one! :greedy:

darko666
06-13-2005, 01:06 PM
I agree with Slicker, you should have started with the OT.

That way, when he gets to the best movie in the saga, Revenge of the Sith, he doesn't have to move down to a not-as-great movie when he watches the next episode. :)

thats a matter of opinion. in fact, watching ROTS, then going to ANH, will blend better. ROTS ends on Tattoine, and ANH begins there. granted the "I am your father" line will not be as shocking, but who knows, maybe the 22 year old will still be surprised. hard as that may be, but who knows.

and i'm not knocking your opinion for liking ROTS, but i don't think it's the best IMO. but this will be good to see what somone will think of the movies when actually seen in numbered order.

jjreason
06-13-2005, 01:09 PM
Sorry not to answer your group question, Tycho. I think he'll most certainly like AOTC more than TPM. As a matter of fact, I think that he'll like every movie better than the last one - including ROTJ more than ESB.

The payout at the end of ROTJ is very strong. It'll only be once he's seen them 30 or 40 times each that he'll realize Empire is the superior film. :)

And about the experiment, you say that "we" are the OT first group. I don't agree. The only ones here that could be your counter, "OT first" group would have to be the ones that were 22 years of age (or thereabouts) in 1977. This guy will never get the chance to fall in love with the movies the way a kid does, it's not fair to compare his reactions to them as an adult to yours or mine.

2-1B
06-13-2005, 01:34 PM
thats a matter of opinion.

Of course it is.

Tycho
06-13-2005, 02:05 PM
Sorry not to answer your group question, Tycho. I think he'll most certainly like AOTC more than TPM. As a matter of fact, I think that he'll like every movie better than the last one - including ROTJ more than ESB.

The payout at the end of ROTJ is very strong.

It would be nice if it turned out that way. If Lucas had started from the beginning, Episode One, than Episode 6 should be the final "ultimate" climax or his story would fizzle out. We will definitely be interested to see if Return of the Jedi lets him down or not. Having seen Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, and I'm not even sure if he knows there are only 6 episodes, I wonder if he'll think Luke will turn to the Dark Side just as his father did as Palpatine tempts him during the Battle of Endor?


It'll only be once he's seen them 30 or 40 times each that he'll realize Empire is the superior film

Well, we'll only have first impressions to go on. However, he will tell what he liked the most.

If he really liked them, he'll go out and buy the DVDs. Which ones or one he'll get first could be an indicator (if he doesn't buy them all - in which case I'll ask him what he watched first - again it actually mattering if only he decided not to just watch them in Episode Order again). However, he might buy the OT first because they're a box set, and he might wait for a PT box set. That can always be the case. Especially when you get 4 discs with the OT, and 2 if you don't know about the bonus discs in the two individually sold PT boxes.





And about the experiment, you say that "we" are the OT first group. I don't agree. The only ones here that could be your counter, "OT first" group would have to be the ones that were 22 years of age (or thereabouts) in 1977. This guy will never get the chance to fall in love with the movies the way a kid does, it's not fair to compare his reactions to them as an adult to yours or mine.

Stillakid would seem to disagree with you. He's saying the OT movies still speak to us as adults and always did - plus that a kid could discern how much more cooler the OT is compared to TPM. I also like all the OT movies better than TPM myself, so I can't argue with him. (at that point anyway)


What "we" were waiting for was a Star Wars movie that continued in line with the established continuity, tone, and "feel" that was Star Wars.

What will be interesting is to see if he picks up that tone has changed and continuity has changed - while watching it in Episode Order.

If you watch the movies from 1-6 without knowing what comes in each consecutive chapter, does anyone think they do or do not keep in continuity?

That is, if you always think Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's Master, having known no differently, does the OT work? Doesn't it just seem like Obi-Wan decides not to tell Luke about Qui-Gon because Qui-Gon can't train Luke but Yoda can?

Is there anything else? The "Vader betrayed and murdered your father" thing is actually true from a certain point of view. In ROTS, my pal would have already seen "Don't do it Anakin. It's over! I have the high ground." Then Anakin leaps into Obi-Wan's defensive sword - thereby killing himself pretty much.


With that out of the way, this is an interesting experiment, though in terms of believing the results, it would be more beneficial to have someone else sitting there with you, someone who isn't that enthralled with the Prequels, to ensure an objective viewing experience and a post mortum discussion uninfluenced by...shall we say, "undo" respect given the films. I'm sure you're doing your best to stay absolutely quiet and give this guy a chance to form his own opinions, but put him in a room with one of us so we can lob questions at him and then see where it goes. I predict a lot of "oh yeah, now that you mention it..." kind of moments arising.

That's the thing. I'm not biased in this experiment because I'm not MENTIONING anything. You're the one who would seem to have a control problem with that Stilla-Critic ;)

I wrote down his comments he made (unprovoked by me) during the movie.

Before I asked him anything, he said "That was pretty good. Now I definitely want to watch the next one."

I asked him:

- What did you like about it?

After he made his comments about JarJar, I asked "would he rather have not had him in the movie?" He said he was entertained by him, but a little less could've helped. There were parts he laughed at JarJar and that was more happy or humorous emotion than I saw him express at anything else, including "what do you think you're some kind of Jedi waving your hand around like that?" and "You were right about one thing Master: the negotiations were short." JarJar's humor seemed to be the humor he enjoyed in the film the most.

I did not / have not told him anything about Palpatine.

I asked him "if he got the political story underneath the surface?" He said "there was one?" He basically took it as these inept "Martians" (Niemoidians) were getting help by the far more dangerous Sith to take over this planet, and they failed at that - mostly because of the Jedi and because Padme was smarter than they were.

I don't know if he latched on to any character besides Padme. I think he enjoyed Anakin in the space battle actually, and liked Anakin as "the kid in the show, experiencing the new and larger world." I don't think he attached on to Qui-Gon Jinn as I had. I've seen others who don't know SW do that and get shocked when Darth Maul kills him - but I didn't see that here. (The appearance of Lucas killing the main character of his movie - Qui-Gon). My pals investment in Padme makes this a little interesting. She is a main character, but I never watched TPM looking at her as THE main character. (A main character does not have to be introduced first - we don't meet LUKE until 15 minutes or more into the film - about what it takes to get Padme onto the Naboo Starship with her Jedi rescuers.


I predict a lot of "oh yeah, now that you mention it..." kind of moments arising.

That's why I'm not mentioning anything!

Come on - as a reporter / interviewer you know how to be unbiased, Stillakid. I just don't think you apply your usual amount of professionalism to how you joke about this experiment.



What would have made this experience even better would be to have 2 of these people...one to show the films in episode order and one to show in production order...then see the discussion that takes place afterward, prompted, but not impeded by the likes of us. I'd pay to see that one!

If that's possible, I'll do it. In the meanwhile, I submit that all of us are the crowd that have seen these in production order.

We saw TPM knowing that Anakin grows up to be DV.

We saw TPM knowing that there were cooler and far less dumb things than Battle Droids (stormtroopers).

We saw TPM knowing a Star Wars universe that was constantly at war.

We saw AOTC knowing that Anakin and Padme would hook up.

We saw ROTS knowing that Padme will have twins.

We saw ROTS knowing that Palpatine will become the evil Emperor.

We saw ANH never knowing what the peaceful times had been like, what the Republic had all been about, and what the Jedi Knights were like and what they were capable of.

We saw ROTJ still never knowing everything the Sith were capable of and what their history was.

It's true that we saw ESB not knowing who Luke's father was - what he had become.

But this is a Star Wars fan's greatest wish come true - well one of them - to show the movies to a newbie in Episode Order! - and to see what will happen.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-14-2005, 11:50 AM
But this is a Star Wars fan's greatest wish come true - well one of them
Yeah, I could think of one *cough*Padmé*cough* or two *cough*Leia*cough*. ;)

It must be interesting to watch them without actually knowing what's going to happen next. I wonder if he'll pick up on Sidious beforehand? There were many people who didn't think that Palpatine and Sidious were the same person, but it seems like that thought hasn't even crossed this guy's mind. I mean, since we saw TPM and AOTC with the knowledge that 20 years later there would be a guy who wore a robe like Sidious and ruled the galaxy and had the name Palpatine (though it's never said on-screen in the OT).

It's odd that he doesn't know that there's big political scheming going on behind the scenes! He's going to feel as ambushed as Ki-Adi-Mundi. :D

JediTricks
06-14-2005, 07:01 PM
It would be nice if it turned out that way. If Lucas had started from the beginning, Episode One, than Episode 6 should be the final "ultimate" climax or his story would fizzle out. We will definitely be interested to see if Return of the Jedi lets him down or not. Having seen Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, and I'm not even sure if he knows there are only 6 episodes, I wonder if he'll think Luke will turn to the Dark Side just as his father did as Palpatine tempts him during the Battle of Endor?As I've been stating so heavily recently, Lucas *did* start from the beginning, ANH was always meant to be the REAL start of the Star Wars saga, there is no arguing with this because it is a fact, that it's called "Episode 4" is only there as a mcguffin to let audiences know they were never going to see Eps 1 through 3 and should just share in the gag and get ready to jump into something they won't totally understand.



But this is a Star Wars fan's greatest wish come true - well one of them - to show the movies to a newbie in Episode Order! - and to see what will happen. Funny, as a fan of Star Wars, that sounds like my greatest nightmare. But then again, I'm a fan of the ORIGINAL Star Wars, the one that was a complete tale WITHOUT any prequel interference.


JediTricks is saying "they aren't Star Wars." So we have that reaction. Blame Lucas for saying the prequels are... "False-Star Wars". :p (That's all explained here: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=28846 )

jjreason
06-18-2005, 12:27 PM
Any updates, Tycho? Have you shown him AOTC yet?

Tycho
06-18-2005, 06:12 PM
No. He hasn't seen AOTC yet.

On Sunday night he saw TPM.

He had major group projects to do for a compacted summer business class and said he didn't have free time until Thursday.

Thursday his brother and his brother's girlfriend came to visit him.

Friday his eyes were bothering him and he was going to watch but delayed going to get glasses for next to forever, and I had a BBQ party I was going to with my girlfriend.

Today, I just got home from playing Paintball (commando) since 8am and haven't called him to see what he's doing yet. My girlfriend and I are going to dinner after I clean up and scrub my clothes I wore on the battlefield today. Maybe he'll watch it later with me, but that depends if my girlfriend is leaving tonight to go to her grandmother's, or if she's going tomorrow when I go to see my grandpa for Father's Day.

It might not be until Sunday night that he watches AOTC, but I hope it's sooner!

I'm aching to see ROTS again!

JediTricks
06-21-2005, 12:43 AM
Doesn't sound like he feels compelled to see the next chapter.

Tycho
06-21-2005, 01:01 AM
JT is correct.

He is different from most of the bunch that hangs out here:

his first priority is his compacted summer business classes and the work required for them (I put off a lot of work and screwed around during my college years - though I did end up putting in the effort required, just closer to my deadlines versus through disciplined scheduling - but he's working in courses that require group effort, such as in mock-companies for business management practice - so that's different there from independent study projects like what I mostly did).

he did not grow up on Star Wars like we did, so it cannot have the priority for him that it does for us.

he still procrastinates from doing his class assignments, but it seems like it's mostly sleeping that he's doing (so he tells me) when he puts off doing more homework.

his brakes failed on his truck yesterday and I've helped him out with transportation to the auto repair place and dealing with that issue, so that's been a distraction.

he met a new girl he might start dating just the other day when he was getting his new eyeglasses in the mall. (Guys: try the "I'm blind and really need your (cute girl) help!" It really worked.)

He will watch AOTC and then ROTS and then ANH following that, and so on.

His reaction and desire to see the next film after each consecutive movie might indicate which (if any) stir his interest. However, it also might just be that when his class finishes, or their projects are done, that he has more time.

When he watches each movie next may or may not indicate anything. I will report that, but more importantly his reactions to each film.

Remember that I am busy too and meet with clients and have political meetings in the evenings (every evening this week is booked for me at one hour or another) - so our schedules cannot always work out. Plus I have a girlfriend who gets first priority over time with my friends, as she is working on her Master's Degree and also has school responsibilities and thus limited time which she likes to spend with me as much as she can.

Well, as frustrating as it may be, I have to wait to show him the next movie. It has now been 1 week since he saw The Phantom Menace. We'll see when the Clones attack...

2-1B
06-21-2005, 02:39 AM
Oh, it's been only one week ? Big deal. We waited 3 years to see Clones after Menace so why would this guy rush to see part 2 after seeing part 1 when he wasn't even drawn to the theater to see it in the first place ? :confused:

JediTricks
06-22-2005, 12:09 AM
When I left the theater for Batman Begins, I immediately wanted to see more. Same thing with ESB and LOTR: FOTR, I didn't want to wait a week or a year or 3 years, the hunger was to see more now. That's what sold the pre-1980 Star Wars comics and even the little amount of EU. If this is the first chapter of a story and it's doing its job, it should be enticing the audience to want to continue on with the story, that's what I meant. So often today we have junk movies, big blockbusters that only take the position of getting people into those seats and selling popcorn and merchandising, not about actually satisfying them while leaving them wanting more, studios have become too dependent at cranking out junk food films. I saw Kill Bill vol 1 right before the sequel was released, when vol 1 was over and I knew there was a sequel out there I immediately wanted to go out and see the second part.

2-1B
06-22-2005, 12:20 AM
Right, but as Tycho pointed out the guy had "Stuff" going on since watching TPM so of course he'll need to find the time. :)

jjreason
06-26-2005, 11:30 PM
I was wondering if it would be possible to make a new "fan" out of a 22 year old newbie. I guess it's not fair to draw conclusions until he's seen the whole set of shows, but this hasn't been a promising start. Yes he's got other stuff to do, but unless Tycho doesn't shower (not insinuating anything, Tycho), it looks to me like the "hook" set by Ep I wasn't really that sharp. If he had been blown away, he'd already be back for more - or at least would have asked to borrow (or rented, for crikey, what would that cost like $2????) AOTC so that he could watch it on his own time.

Maybe run that by him, Tycho, see if he wants to borrow it to watch it on his own time. You can grill him when he gives it back. :)

Tycho
06-27-2005, 11:14 AM
He hasn't had any time. His course (one of 2 he's taking) requires a 1-2 page paper every day. His group meets daily like on "The Apprentice" to work on business plans for the other class.

When he got some free time the other week, he went to a Padres vs. Dodgers game, then he watched maybe another one of the series on TV.

Like a stereotype I've been familiar with, the average guy chooses sports over science fiction. Lest us not forget this is my buddy I weight train with and not all my friends are into "space movies" and things not grounded in more reality.

Anyway, he said he was going to bed last night at 8pm because his working group was meeting at 6:30am today before they had their final presentation at 8am this morning.

He told me last week that this week would be better for him (after Monday) for working out and hanging out watching movies.

Meanwhile, my girlfriend's birthday is Tuesday and she and I are either going out that night or on Wednesday night to celebrate.

We'll see what works out. Life is not all about watching SW movies. I've seen them so many times myself because I grew up loving them and that whole fantasy escape, and also because I put them on when folding my laundry, doing the dishes, etc. and often don't "just sit and watch them." I love reading the SW Expanded Universe books and comics because I get something new and different out of them.

jjreason
06-27-2005, 12:35 PM
He hasn't had any time. His course (one of 2 he's taking) requires a 1-2 page paper every day. His group meets daily like on "The Apprentice" to work on business plans for the other class.



Nobody's suggesting he blow off school, work or the GF to watch Star Wars, Tycho. All I'm saying (I won't speak for anyone else here) is that it LOOKS like TPM didn't really hook him. He may have thought it was "fine" or even "good", but it didn't blow him away. If he had been completely enamoured, he would have been asking to take AOTC home that night on a loaner.

It's no big deal, like you say, and it will still be interesting to see how this pans out - but all we have to go on here to judge his reaction to the first movie are his choices, and so far he hasn't chosen to watch the second installment.

Oh, and please don't take my comments personally - I'm not chastising you for failing to force feed Clones to the poor guy.

2-1B
06-27-2005, 12:50 PM
Come on guys, thise dude didn't even bother to see any of these movies in the theater since 1997 but now you're pointing out that he's not "hooked" or something . . .

jjreason
06-27-2005, 02:49 PM
Come on guys, thise dude didn't even bother to see any of these movies in the theater since 1997 but now you're pointing out that he's not "hooked" or something . . .

Well, that was one of the questions I had, Caesar; could a 22 year old SW virgin actually be turned into a "fan" or not? As I posted before, it's WAY too early to draw any conclusions, but all we have to go on is his apparent apathy (again, based only on him having chosen NOT to watch AOTC yet) after viewing only TPM. Obviously, his reaction to the movie (and decision to not watch AOTC) have to be interpreted, and everyone will have their own ideas as to what, if any, significance the results have been to date. That's what we're discussing here.

By the way, I also theorize that when buddy starts watching the OT, he'll be saying things like "Oh, I've seen this part before!" or "Oh yeah, I've seen this. It was a long time ago, though." I won't be completely convinced he hasn't seen any of the OT shows until Tycho's viewings with him prove me wrong. :)

Tycho
06-27-2005, 06:55 PM
I wonder if we'll get that far. I just talked to him on the phone and suggested we kick it and watch a film.

His response? He wants to work on his next mini-paper for a bit, maybe nap, then he says he'll give me a call to tentatively go and work out at the gym about 9pm.

I doubt he'll watch a movie after our workout. You never know, but...

Tycho
11-15-2005, 02:30 AM
My friend has finally suggested he will watch another SW movie (AOTC). Look for an update soon.

Slicker
11-15-2005, 02:42 AM
My friend has finally suggested he will watch another SW movie (AOTC). Look for an update soon.Well, it's over now. He's not gonna wanna watch another one after you show him this monstrosity. It took him long enough after TPM. Why's that?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-16-2005, 07:42 PM
Well, it's over now. He's not gonna wanna watch another one after you show him this monstrosity. It took him long enough after TPM. Why's that?
Yeah, it's almost like either he or Tycho was in the hospital for a long time.

Oh, wait . . .

Slicker
11-16-2005, 08:23 PM
Crap. I forgot this. ;)

JediTricks
11-17-2005, 07:52 PM
Yeah, it's almost like either he or Tycho was in the hospital for a long time.

Oh, wait . . .
The guy did go 2 months without interest in seeing AOTC before Tycho went into the hospital though.

Fede-Wan
11-18-2005, 08:09 AM
Hi,

I´m not new to the forums. i usually read them, but i tend not to speak on them, because fans get angry in regards of OT vs PT.
Not very Jedi Like.

This is an exception.

Tycho. I completely agree with you. About your experiment.
I did this experiment several times. With girls, oys, etc.

All of them react differently.
But there is not a I like the OT the PT, or whatever.
They like the whole story. As it should be.
They are not fans, or like them because they were young when they saw the movies or anything.

Its one story. To be watched in chronological order.
And instead of the surprising Luke, Im your father thing.
They see the WHAT?? The hero gets evil??? And the girlfriend dies????

thats more a shock for me. Heroes dont turn evil usually.

Im 28. So i loved SW since i was young and stuff. But i have to say the precuel trilogy works better for me.
Its richer in my opinion. Anakin is more rounded character than anybody else.
But thats just how I like it.

In regards of the experiment. I did it with my Girlfriend.

She loves Anakin. She cant watch Revenge. She absolutaley loves Anakin.
She hates Luke (And I fight a lot with her defending him ,)

She watched the movies chronologically.

Keep us posted on your experiment Tycho.

Its really fun.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-18-2005, 06:03 PM
The guy did go 2 months without interest in seeing AOTC before Tycho went into the hospital though.
He had a buttload of stuff going on, didn't he?

Ah well. I'm glad this experiment is getting back on track! Hopefully he'll still want to, as many people don't like AOTC (though if he liked TPM, I assume he'll like AOTC).

jjreason
11-18-2005, 09:46 PM
Yep, been plenty long enough. Get his butt strapped in, Tycho, or I'm going to come down there and do my own re-interpretation of that scene from A Clockwork Orange! :twisted:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-11-2005, 01:20 PM
So . . . have you watched AOTC yet?

Tycho
12-11-2005, 02:54 PM
So . . . have you watched AOTC yet?

No. He has an out-of-town girlfriend....

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-11-2005, 07:38 PM
No. He has an out-of-town girlfriend....
Well, watching AOTC and taking note of the Anakin/Padme scenes could show him what NOT to do. ;) :D