Do you think of them as "Ben" and "Vader" in this film?

[JediTricks]

Not to me. I rarely think of "Obi-Wan" as "Ben" throughout the OT anymore, but I find myself every time talking about Hayden's character after it goes to the Dark Side as "Anakin" and not "Vader". I guess part of that is Vader in the suit doesn't do anything in the movie, so it's always Hayden as Anakin being bad rather than anything else, even when we see him getting the Vader suit put on. How about you?

[JetsAndHeels]

I always associate Ben with the older man who we know in the OT. The one who became that "old hermit" living on Tatooine. Once the Jedi were all but extinct, he dropped the "Obi Wan" and just went by "Ben."
As far as Anakin is concerned, its hard to see him as anyone other than Anakin until he dons the black suit. Of course we know he is technically Vader after his "conversion" to the dark side in Palpy's office, but given the weak showing and lack of struggle during that particular event he is still Anakin to me. If I had to choose where he was actually Vader, in my opinion, it would be on Mustafar's landing pad. Once Anakin sees Obi Wan standing there he figures Padme has turned against him. Then from that point forward he becomes someone else.

[JimJamBonds]

Not to me. I rarely think of "Obi-Wan" as "Ben" throughout the OT anymore, but I find myself every time talking about Hayden's character after it goes to the Dark Side as "Anakin" and not "Vader". I guess part of that is Vader in the suit doesn't do anything in the movie, so it's always Hayden as Anakin being bad rather than anything else, even when we see him getting the Vader suit put on. How about you?

I agree with you JT 100%, its almost always "Obi-Wan" reguardless of which movie I'm talking about. Like you said without the black suit it feels a bit weird calling that person Vader. Although he has already been recristened as Vader he doesn't correct Padme or Obi-Wan when they refer to him as Anakin which makes it a bit harder to call him Vader.

Jim Jam

[stillakid]

Obi Wan isn't Ben until he's an old man, so I don't think of Hayden as a Ben at all.

And being that the Anakin we see in the Prequels can't possibly become the villain Darth Vader of the OT, there's no way to accurately call him Vader, even with the suit on.

[Ji'dai]

Definitely not. I do like Ewan MacGregor's portrayal of Kenobi in AOTC and ROTS but I don't think of him as old Ben. For me, 'Ben' Kenobi lived and died in A New Hope. Kenobi is later referred to as 'Obi-Wan' by Yoda in ESB and Luke in ROTJ, thus dispensing with the old alias anyway.

I can't accept Anakin as Vader either in or out of the suit. When Nute Gunray welcomes the arrival of "Lord Vader" on Mustafar - whether with sinister cloak and yellow eyes or not, it just didn't feel right. The Frankenstein scene and wail made it even worse. It was just hard to accept a Vader that stumbles around and cries out over his lost love.

It might've been better had Anakin's fall to the dark side taken place earlier in the film. Kenobi is appalled by Anakin's anger and rage in battle, and the needless slaughter of defeated enemies. He confonts Anakin, who, finally tired of his Master's criticism, unleashes his hatred and anger as he turns his saber on Kenobi. They fight, but Anakin suffers a humilating loss. Defeated, mutilated, burned and left to die, Anakin is offered salvation by Palpatine and the chance to avenge his defeat. He accepts, dons the suit and goes hunting for Jedi, especially Obi-Wan. Kenobi learns Anakin is still alive, and believing there is still good in him (ROTJ: "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." seeks Vader out. In a climatic duel Obi-Wan narrowly defeats his wayward apprentice, but Vader refuses to turn back. Vader escapes (I dunno, through a hatch into space where Kenobi can't follow) and Obi-Wan leaves knowing that his apprentice is now 'more machine than man, twisted and evil.' Vader continues to hunt down the remaining Jedi as Palpatine consolidates his power. Yoda goes to Dagobah, a terminally ill Padme and Leia go into hiding on Alderaan, and Kenobi delivers Luke to the Lars.

[2-1B]

In the case of Ben: yes I do. :)

Of course he's still Obi-Wan (as Yoda always calls him in the OT) but in talking about the movie with my friend at work after seeing it, reviewing many of the scenes together, I found myself calling Ewan McGregor's character "Ben." :)

With Vader, now that depends. It feels natural to me to hear him called Vader by Gunray and it's not like Palps PLANNED on his new apprentice donning those black jammies. lol

The part where it's hard for me to think of him as Vader is when he talks with Padme and Obi-Wan because both of them call him Anakin. And since I find myself allied with Amidala and Kenobi in not wanting Anakin to Fall to evil, I still identify with him as Ani in those scenes.

[Kidhuman]

Yes and no, we all know he got knighted into SIthhood, but without the suit he isnt the Vader we all know and love.

[Mr. JabbaJohnL]

Obi Wan isn't Ben until he's an old man, so I don't think of Hayden as a Ben at all.

Well that's good, because Hayden never played anyone named Ben. ;)

I don't like to call Obi-Wan "Ben" since I've always referred to him as Obi-Wan anyway. I hardly ever call Dooku "Tyranus," and I don't really call Anakin "Vader" until he has the suit on. Even though that's technically his name, it seems odd to call him that.

[stillakid]

Well that's good, because Hayden never played anyone named Ben. ;)

I don't like to call Obi-Wan "Ben" since I've always referred to him as Obi-Wan anyway. I hardly ever call Dooku "Tyranus," and I don't really call Anakin "Vader" until he has the suit on. Even though that's technically his name, it seems odd to call him that.
Oops, typo. :nerv:

[JediTricks]

For me, 'Ben' Kenobi lived and died in A New Hope. Kenobi is later referred to as 'Obi-Wan' by Yoda in ESB and Luke in ROTJ, thus dispensing with the old alias anyway.In ESB though, Luke does refer to him as "Ben" several times, so for me that's why it's not totally dead.


I can't accept Anakin as Vader either in or out of the suit. When Nute Gunray welcomes the arrival of "Lord Vader" on Mustafar - whether with sinister cloak and yellow eyes or not, it just didn't feel right. The Frankenstein scene and wail made it even worse. It was just hard to accept a Vader that stumbles around and cries out over his lost love. Yeah, I feel ya there, that's it for me too.


Lots of different opinions here on this one, little stuff like timing and actions decide it for a few of you, that was surprising to me. I can't think of an actor as 2 different guys in a movie most of the time without a big separation or something like that, so even if I were to say "Anakin landed on Mustafar but Vader killed the Separatist leaders", I'd still be *thinking* that Anakin killed them.

[basschick]

everyone seems to think of old ben kenobi as an old man, but it's not THAT many years that pass from obi wan to ben - it's just 18 years. it's more the way he comes off to people - old ben kenobi is thought of locally as a sort of crazy old hermit type. he didn't demand or expect any respect as ben. he would be maybe 50 - in a lot of ways, he seemed a lot older as ben.

i felt like i saw the first glimmers of the person who would become old ben kenobi in ep2, just a hint. and a little more in ROTS.

but no, i don't think of obi wan directly as being ben. and we didn't see anakin DO anything in the suit, or watch him adjust to his new life - so i don't think of him as darth vader.

[rbaumhauer]

In the same vein, does it seem odd to anybody else that Ben calls Vader "Darth" in ANH, during the duel? I think Lucas threw a couple of similar lines into ROTS (only saw it once, probably won't see it again until the DVD comes out) to try to "mask" it somehow, but it still seems odd. If "Darth" is now accepted as a title rather than a name, wouldn't it make a lot more sense for him to call him Vader (or Anakin, for that matter)?

Rick

[2-1B]

Not really, because in ROTS Obi-Wan still calls him Anakin even though he changed his name . . . but in ANH its 20 years later and much time has passed. The "Darth" to me works even better now because it's like a Sith title of "Master."

So, Vader says he is now the Master but Obi-Wan slaps him back by saying he's a master of evil, Darth, as in the Darth title replaced the Master title that Anakin would have eventually had if he didn't go off the deep end. :)

[stillakid]

So, Vader says he is now the Master but Obi-Wan slaps him back by saying he's a master of evil, Darth, as in the Darth title replaced the Master title that Anakin would have eventually had if he didn't go off the deep end. :)
I think that you just struck upon one of the things that bothered me most about Anakin's downfall.

In the very last meeting between Anakin and Obi when they were on good terms, Obi gives Anakin the greatest compliment possible and even tells him that if he is just patient, he'll get the respect he wants from the Council.

But Anakin manages to either not believe Obi at that moment or manages to conveniently forget it when it comes time to declare that the Jedi are evil. Granted, lopping off Mace's arm won't win him points with anybody, but had he turned on Palpatine after Palps retracts the offer for saving lives, Anakin might have redeemed himself at that time and been granted the title of Master that he coveted. He probably would have had to either lie about what he did to Mace or own up to it and hope for the best, but either way, by bringing down Palpatine it would be hard for the rest of the Council to continue to deny him a promotion without sending him back to the darkside for certain.

[rbaumhauer]

So, Vader says he is now the Master but Obi-Wan slaps him back by saying he's a master of evil, Darth, as in the Darth title replaced the Master title that Anakin would have eventually had if he didn't go off the deep end. :)

I don't know, combined with the "A young pupil of mine named Darth Vader" line, I still think that Darth was originally a name, not a title, but that Lucas fell in love with the feel of the word, and decided he wanted to be able to use it for more characters.

That exchange during the duel feels more like Ben is being "familiar" with Vader, casually calling him by his first name.

[2-1B]

Rick, I can't argue against that point because had ANH not been so hugely successful we would have never seen a sequel (the whole Vader/Anakin thing) and today his first name would indeed be Darth. lol

That's not to say I don't like the Darth Title thing ('cause I do ;) ) but I doubt Alec Guinness had any idea that it WASN'T Vader's first name when he said it. :D

[Darth Spectre]

I do see hints of "Ben" in ROTS, but to me overall, Obi-Wan is the true character or person anyway, "Ben" just an alias or a part of him. I can see the beginnings of "Ben" in Ep. III. Some of Anakin's dialogue in ROTS does ring true of Vader, but overall, I don't see Vader much in Ep III, even after the armor is on him. Because Vader is cold, calculating. Anakin is emotional and impulsive. So that change (if it is plausible at all) has yet to happen.

The "Darth" line works perfectly in ANH because it shows 1) that Obi-Wan no longer thinks of Vader as Anakin (as Yoda referred to with the "The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader" line) & it also works as a kind of insult, since Darth is just a generic sith lord title, nothing special unto itself. It shows Obi-Wan has emotionally divorced himself from Anakin and the past, like how he talks about Vader to Luke in ROTJ.