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Emperor Howdy
01-14-2002, 01:45 AM
I saw LOTR this weekend, and need to get something out:

1) I've read all of the novels, seen the animated features, and found the movie to be pretty cool...........BUT:

2) To say that it de-thrones Star Wars is TOTALLY ridiculous.....it wasn't THAT cool, no matter what anybody says. "Wow....golly jeepers!!....the opening battle with Sauron was incredible!!".....yeah..it was.....but even the opening battle in Saving Private Ryan was much better.

3) Yeah, yeah.....the book is the book and the movie is the movie....but there were still SEVERAL inconsistancies.

4) VERY visually stunning....but so were all the Star Wars, even TPM....and I'm sure AOTC will be very eye-catching too.

5) To say this is the greatest movie of all time is absurd....the ones who preach that are obviously the same nerds who wore cloaks to the premiere.

Bottom line....great flick that stayed relatively loyal to the novel....but to rag or compare Star Wars to it is apples and oranges......and like it or not, only in someone's wildest dreams will LOTR EVER make the international and multi-generational impact that SW did, does, and will.....

Wolfwood319
01-14-2002, 03:26 AM
Whether someone feels that FOTR was the greatest movie of all time, its their opinion. If they feel it is better than Star Wars, so be it.

LOTR has already made an international, multi-generational impact, more so than Star Wars, and has been around much longer. That's why they took 3 years to make movies about it.

FOTR completely blows TPM and ROTJ out of the water, from a singular film stand point.

Just becaus it has inconsistantcies with the book doesn't take away from the fact that it was an excellent film.

Sounds to me that your just upset that the film had more of an impact than Star Wars had, more specifically Star Wars in the last 3 years.

What did you wear to the first showing of TPM, I'm curious?

2-1B
01-14-2002, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by Emperor Howdy
To say this is the greatest movie of all time is absurd....the ones who preach that are obviously the same nerds who wore cloaks to the premiere.





"The number one movie this weekend was Lord of the Rings, which has taken in $94 million. It's especially amazing because no one who went brought a date." -- Conan O'Brien --

bigbarada
01-14-2002, 10:44 AM
Star Wars fans calling LOTR fans 'geeks.' Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Geez, get a life, people!

IMO, LOTR the book will always be better than Star Wars. Why? Because it was one of the main sources of inspiration for Star Wars (and D&D, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, Led Zeppelin music, Beatles films, etc.). FOTR the film, moved me more than Ep1, ROTJ and ESB combined so I choose that as my favorite film. You don't like it? Well, I don't seem to remember your opinion mattering to me at all.

derek
01-14-2002, 05:12 PM
i liked lord of the rings a lot, but what i really liked was the way the movie was filmed, acted and directed. how i wish star wars had this " serious look" to it, while staying true to the star wars mythology.

but i think you are right emperor howdy. star wars will be, in the long run, much more influential and longer lasting than LOTR, even though star wars may have borrowed from it.

SithDroid
01-14-2002, 05:31 PM
I loved the LOTR movie. Also I believe, that Star Wars has had a larger impact than the LOTR series. Not everyone has read the books, I for one. Not everyone will go and see the movie. Only time will tell if LOTR becomes larger than Star Wars. But who cares because their number one competitor is Harry Potter. I like all three equally and am glad to have variety.

Mike Troxell
01-14-2002, 09:57 PM
2) To say that it de-thrones Star Wars is TOTALLY ridiculous.....it wasn't THAT cool, no matter what anybody says. "Wow....golly jeepers!!....the opening battle with Sauron was incredible!!".....yeah..it was.....but even the opening battle in Saving Private Ryan was much better.

All a matter of personal preference, my good man. And while the opening battle of Saving Private Ryan (and the just-as-good if less hyped end battle) might be better, that does nothing to shame Lord of the Rings, because the SPR battles are top-of-the-line, and arguably the best film battles in history.


but to rag or compare Star Wars to it is apples and oranges......and like it or not, only in someone's wildest dreams will LOTR EVER make the international and multi-generational impact that SW did, does, and will.....

Hmmmm....making the good old "apples and oranges" defense and then immediately thereafter comparing pears and grapefruits? Interesting :crazed:

bigbarada
01-14-2002, 10:09 PM
Actually, LOTR made the international and multi-generational impact that Star Wars did. Only twenty years before Star Wars.

Like it or not, Star Wars in not the only worthwhile franchise out there. There are tons of others, including LOTR and Star Trek. Trying to proclaim that one is better than the other and the fans of that one are somehow less geeky than everyone else is ludicrous. What's even worse is the presumption that a person cannot be fans of more than one at a time. What's to stop me from liking LOTR and Star Wars equally? Nothing!

BTW, Caesar, I think Conan O'Brien used that exact same joke for Ep1 and don't be surprised to hear it again when Ep2 premieres.

From my experience in the theaters, for LOTR and Star Wars, most guys didn't need to bring dates since they already had their wives and families with them.

Mike Troxell
01-14-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
From my experience in the theaters, for LOTR and Star Wars, most guys didn't need to bring dates since they already had their wives and families with them.

True, although I must say I get the occasional VERY weird person to see LOTR when I'm selling tickets :D

Luckily I haven't had to worry about the carny folk ;) who come out for Star Wars and Star Trek yet, although they're both bound to change this year.

2-1B
01-15-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
BTW, Caesar, I think Conan O'Brien used that exact same joke for Ep1 and don't be surprised to hear it again when Ep2 premieres.


Yeah, I was reading an entertainment magazine and they put that quote in there. I wanted to throw it in to point out that the whole genre is stereotyped that way, and it's foolish to label LOTR fans as goofy from a SW perspective, and vice versa.

Case in point - the same magazine used their own bit about the Seattle AOTC line guys, and I'll quote, " Star Wars: Episode II Two fans are already waiting in line outside a Seattle theater for the May 16 opening. Yet they didn't have to cancel one date."

It'll be the same for Nemesis, The Two Towers, Epsiode III, etc.

Jargo
01-15-2002, 09:51 PM
I changed my mind about entering this debate, I'm editing out everything I just typed in here. I really can't be bothered with it all after all.

Emperor Howdy
01-15-2002, 10:16 PM
Whoa, whoa.....I didn't call anyone a "geek".....I said "nerd". :crazed: .................and I wasn't calling fans of LOTR nerds.....I was calling the guys who wear cloaks to the movie nerds. The same goes for the guys dressed as Han Solo and Luke Skywalker at the theatre.....but you know what? I'll retract that statement. There might be some people here who enjoy doing that to express their love for the series, and I'm all about freedom of expression, so my apologies to anyone wielding lightsabers at AOTC. Besides, I'M a LOTR fan, so I wouldn't want to call myself a nerd....................well.......sometimes I'm a nerd with my collection..:stupid:

bigbarada: I wasn't attacking you, man. Nobody said there isn't room for another group or "franchise" of films (The Godfather, Star Wars, Rocky, Terminator, Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, Halloween, Hellraiser, blah blah, and now LOTR)....what I said was that I thought it was a bold statement to say THE MOVIE (not the book) blows Star Wars out of the water. If that's the way you see it, that's all you bro.....all I'm saying is I don't see it that way. I do agree with you about the books, though. They've been around a lot longer and made their impact in their own right (yeah, I know Robert Plant makes constant reference, but the Beatles?!?), but I didn't leave the MOVIE saying "Star Who"?

wolfwood319: "Sounds to me that your just upset that the film had more of an impact than Star Wars had, more specifically Star Wars in the last 3 years."................err....umm.....
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/days/opening.htm...........*cough-cough*.....http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/.......if you say so....http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/


Look, it's all about opinion. Yeah, I probably am upset when I see people putting down Star Wars......that is, after all, why we're all here......but who knows....maybe after all is said and done, the LOTR movie adaptation might take the crown. My point was not to put down LOTR, but rather to defend what will always be, in my mind atleast, one kick-freakin-arse line of movies.

bigbarada
01-15-2002, 10:59 PM
The Beatles made a movie called Help! which was about John Lennon trying to get rid of a cursed ring. It is generally seen as a good-natured parody of LOTR. Plus John and Yoko expressed interest in making a LOTR movie starring themselves; but thankfully they never got the film rights.:stupid:

I hear what you're saying Emperor Howdy and I did misunderstand your previous comments. Thanks for clearing that up for me. No hard feelings right?:)

2-1B
01-16-2002, 03:19 AM
Jargo, won't you please reconsider? I enjoy reading your posts :)

2-1B
02-14-2009, 03:55 PM
Jargo, won't you please reconsider? I enjoy reading your posts :)

Pretty please? :)

bigbarada
02-14-2009, 04:23 PM
It'd be interesting to see how this debate would play out now that we can watch Star Wars Episodes 1-3 and all three LOTR films on DVD.

I own all three Extended Editions of Lord of the Rings and, to this day, my only complaints about the films is that they are too short. They each need about 2-3 more hours of story in each film and even then they wouldn't cover everything that the books covered.

In retrospect, I don't think that even the original Star Wars films hold together as well as LOTR; but that's to be expected considering that they filmed the principle photography for all three Rings movies at the same time. So, that's not a slight against Star Wars, it's just the nature of filmmaking. They clearly took special care to make LOTR look like one giant movie and it shows through in the final product.

autumnsdescent
02-14-2009, 04:44 PM
I knew this debate would be on here somewhere.

My wife and I went to see each of the LOTR movies at the theater. We consider ourselves movie buffs to an extent.

Having never done so in a theater before, we fell asleep in FOTR.

So we tried to sit through it again later on and succeeded. But it seemed like the movie could have been easily condensed by an hour or so.

Then we saw the second movie... AND FELL ASLEEP AGAIN. Now when the movie starts, they're in the snow on a mountain, right? And when the movie ends, they in the snow on a mountain. My wife asked me if even missed anything. It was 3 hours of character development apparently. We later saw the movie on TV and realized there were talking trees and a fight between the 2 old wizards we missed.

The third movie - ROTK, we actually managed to stay away for thanks to all the battle sequences. But we really felt bad for the special effects that were so obviously computer done. We pretty much felt the whole series was visually pretty until the completely awful elephant jumping done by Orlando Bloom.

Now we have since seen all 3 movies on TV and they've grown on us. In our teen and college years, my wife and I each independently tried to read the series. Tolkein is what we call an overly descriptive writer... as in, he would take 4 pages to describe a salt shaker. Understanding that, I think Peter Jackson did a great job of condensing the story onto film. Personally though, for the ADD and ADHD generation, I think the movies could have been compressed even more.

Now don't get me started on the new SW trilogy...

*penny*
*penny*

-A-

JON9000
02-14-2009, 04:56 PM
I like LOTR, but I was let down with the final two films. Maybe that's just because I loved FOTR so much. Things just kind of got repetitive after awhile. Pitched battles going against the good guys, cavalry comes to bail them out, rinse, repeat.

The part I really didn't like was the ghost army coming through and wiping the bad guys out in about ten seconds. Wow, that was easy. It was so darn trite it bordered on a Deus Ex Machina, which is pretty unforgivable after watching a battle that seemed to go on for hours. The Arwen/Aragorn stuff didn't really do it for me either, after the first picture. And I still swear Sam and Frodo must've made sweet love to each other at least once.

That said, there is a lot to like about the movies, as they are just incredibly well executed. I was actually impressed that they were able to do so well with those books, as they are pretty episodic to read.

autumnsdescent
02-14-2009, 07:03 PM
And I still swear Sam and Frodo must've made sweet love to each other at least once.


Here here. And what's with the guys having girly names like Mary and Pipen? All my gay friends were offended and thought either Peter Jackson or Tolkein was taking a shot at them. Meanwhile all my hetero friends swore up and down it was the Hollywood agenda trying to promote homosexuality to everyone. Geesh.

Let's all agree we're all offended by these movies.

[/sarcasm]

bigbarada
02-14-2009, 07:12 PM
Here here. And what's with the guys having girly names like Mary and Pipen? All my gay friends were offended and thought either Peter Jackson or Tolkein was taking a shot at them. Meanwhile all my hetero friends swore up and down it was the Hollywood agenda trying to promote homosexuality to everyone. Geesh.

Let's all agree we're all offended by these movies.

[/sarcasm]

Their names were actually Meriadoc and Perigrin (sp?), Merry and Pippen were just their nicknames and they weren't considered "gay" back in the 1950s. In fact, the word 'gay' wasn't even considered gay in the 50s. The 'Gay Rights' movement didn't adopt that word until the 1970s.

So, you can rest assured that there was no hidden agenda in their names. :rolleyes:

Rocketboy
02-14-2009, 07:14 PM
I fell asleep 4 times trying to watch FOLR...and I wasn't tired when I started watching it. So freakin' boring.
I got suckered into seeing TTT. 30 minutes in and I was checking my watch to see how much longer I had to go.
I can't even begin to imagine how boring the extended versions are.

After 6 hours of dull there is no way in hell I'll ever see ROTK or rewatch the first two.

Make mine Star Wars.

TeeEye7
02-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Would your opinion change if Arwen wore a metal bikini in the movies? ;)

Rocketboy
02-14-2009, 10:50 PM
Would your opinion change if Arwen wore a metal bikini in the movies? ;)I have no idea what that is, apart from a Clerks 2 reference.

JediTricks
02-14-2009, 11:12 PM
Their names were actually Meriadoc and Perigrin (sp?), Merry and Pippen were just their nicknames and they weren't considered "gay" back in the 1950s. In fact, the word 'gay' wasn't even considered gay in the 50s. The 'Gay Rights' movement didn't adopt that word until the 1970s.

So, you can rest assured that there was no hidden agenda in their names. :rolleyes:You're mistaken about the word "gay", it's been in vogue for homosexuality since at least the late '30s. In the Cary Grant film Bringing Up Baby, he has to wear a woman's nighty because his clothes are all wet, he's caught in them and asked why he's wearing them, and his response is "because I just went GAY all of a sudden!" - and there's no question he's not talking about being happy.


I still think the LOTR films are amazing, I prefer them to the books.

Jargo
02-15-2009, 01:43 PM
I love Bringing up baby. Proper entertainment.

My only complaint about the LOTR movies is the way Viggo Mortenson and Ian McKellen mumble through the whole affair. Two of the main characters and you have to strain to hear anything they say. The laugh of it being that actors wearing heavy prosthetics and nasty sharp pointy false teeth anunciate dialogue more clearly.

JON9000
02-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Here here. And what's with the guys having girly names like Mary and Pipen? All my gay friends were offended and thought either Peter Jackson or Tolkein was taking a shot at them. Meanwhile all my hetero friends swore up and down it was the Hollywood agenda trying to promote homosexuality to everyone. Geesh.

Let's all agree we're all offended by these movies.

[/sarcasm]

Alls I know is "COMMANDO" is the most hetero movie of all time. Followed closely by "TOP GUN". Whenever anyone complains about the gay agenda, we can direct them these gems of totally platonic male bonding. :lipsrsealed:

TeeEye7
02-15-2009, 03:05 PM
I have no idea what that is, apart from a Clerks 2 reference.

It means if Arwen wore something like this in the movies:

Jargo
02-15-2009, 03:18 PM
Arrrrrrrrrrrwen.

2-1B
02-15-2009, 09:14 PM
Alls I know is "COMMANDO" is the most hetero movie of all time.

"Let off some STEAM, Bennet" :love::love::love:

JON9000
02-15-2009, 09:33 PM
Hey man, howsabout this exchange:

Matrix: Come on, let the girl go, just between you and me, don't deprive yourself of some pleasure, come on Bennett, lets party!
Bennett: I can beat you, I don't need the girl

2-1B
02-15-2009, 09:44 PM
Dan Hedaya's Henchman: "slitting a little girl's throat...is like cutting warm butter."

Even Sully gets in on the misogyny, calling Tommy Chong's daughter an Effing W-word.