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Qui-Long Gone
08-08-2005, 08:13 PM
So now that's it's "over" do you think we'll see a ROTJ "Haden" Anakin spirit figure....I mean, since Lucas decided in the DVD that a younger Anakin spirit would be more recognizable to Luke than the tormented face he saw after removing the helmet of his long lost dying father.....:D

I for one could go for that character since it neatly threads the OT with the PT in a way only a genious could have devised......or a really drunken Lucas....

spang2005
08-08-2005, 09:22 PM
I was a fan of seeing Hayden Anakin as a spirit. I'd definatly like to see this figure, provided it's not an impossible-to-find exclusive.

2-1B
08-08-2005, 10:42 PM
Hell yeah, the Spirit of Hayders was a great touch in ROTJ so a figure of him would be most welcome in my collection.

JimJamBonds
08-08-2005, 11:03 PM
I'd say an Anners spirit fig is coming, I don't know why wouldn't there be? For the record I like the fact we see the young Anakin as a spirit and not the crusty old dude was never even around. Although Vader was old and crusty thats a different argument for a different thread. :p

DarthQuack
08-08-2005, 11:27 PM
I've gotta disagree, I was disappointed with putting Hayden in as a spirit, I feel like it was just something for the kids, us die-hards I would think liked the old man better. IMO.

JimJamBonds
08-08-2005, 11:40 PM
I don't see how that was really for the kids. :confused: I think it makes sense since we never see the 'grown up' Anakin why not see the Anakin that was truly around. Although I will say I never even thought of it and had it never been changed I would have been with that.

JEDIpartner
08-09-2005, 07:58 AM
I'm all 50/50 over this whole thing. I would like a Hayden Anakin spirit for my collection. They'd need to redo Yoda as well, so maybe a two pack would be nice since they've already given us an Obi-Wan in that Dagobah wave last year.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2005, 09:19 AM
I've gotta disagree, I was disappointed with putting Hayden in as a spirit, I feel like it was just something for the kids, us die-hards I would think liked the old man better. IMO.

The reasons I was disappointed with Hayden in ROTJ...which are many...would probably be served better in another thread....:(

And I wouldn't spend a nickle on a Hayden spirit Anakin....well, actually I would spend a nickle on that figure....but not $5.99....

Jayspawn
08-09-2005, 09:37 AM
I'd buy one!

jaxx
08-09-2005, 10:36 AM
So now that's it's "over" do you think we'll see a ROTJ "Haden" Anakin spirit figure...
I for one could go for that character since it neatly threads the OT with the PT in a way only a genious could have devised......or a really drunken Lucas....



And I wouldn't spend a nickle on a Hayden spirit Anakin....well, actually I would spend a nickle on that figure....but not $5.99....


Why are you contradicting yourself? Would you, or wouldn't you get it?
:confused: ;)

Slicker
08-09-2005, 11:05 AM
I foresee them making one what with the rash of holographic figures coming out of late and I also foresee myself buying this one. As for Hayd-Akin taking Mr. Shaws place, all I'm gonna say is :rolleyes:

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 11:43 AM
Id snag one up. A nice rehash evolutions with that paint app. and prob. a plastic robe to do that paint app too, and Id be happy. :)

Devo
08-09-2005, 11:47 AM
I'm happy with the Anakin from the jedi spirits set.

I wouldn't have minded Haydakin so much if they'd pulled it off better - as it is Hayden looks embarrassed and then evil in that order. How hard could it have been to have Hayden simply replicate Sebastian Shaws ghost performance?

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 12:00 PM
I didnt mind, and my g/f liked it since she likes hayden, so its all good :)

kool-aid killer
08-09-2005, 12:20 PM
I think sometime in the future (like a year, or two, or three etc.) we will see a figure of Hayden in his spirit form. Hasbro seems to be on a holographic kick right now, and there isnt much of a difference between Holo and spirit so i would think its very likely.

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 01:16 PM
Thats a very good point, they are on a holo/spirit kick. Look at the Jedi from the final 12. :)

2-1B
08-09-2005, 01:23 PM
I've gotta disagree, I was disappointed with putting Hayden in as a spirit, I feel like it was just something for the kids, us die-hards I would think liked the old man better. IMO.

You assume too much. :p

I'm a die-hard, not a kid, and I much prefer Haydie over 'Bas. :)

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 01:24 PM
Hayden was a suprise, I knew he was in there, but it really looked good. It was a nice touch by Lucas and co. :)

Mandalorian Candidat
08-09-2005, 01:41 PM
I'd rather have a Ricky Dick McCallum spirit figure...signifying the end to his yes man days at Lucasfilm.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Why are you contradicting yourself? Would you, or wouldn't you get it?
:confused: ;)


Well let me clarify....my first post was a failed attempt at sarcasm....I am really miffed about Hayden replacing Anakin in ROTJ....:rolleyes: I felt visually it was a good through-line connecting the two trilogies, but story-wise it was a crappy choice. And Lucas did us all no favors explaining (from his mouth, not the books, comics, lore, etc.) what exactly becoming a Jedi spirit entailed....this is why I cannot forgive him for leaving Yoda and Qui-gon's conversation in ROTS....a little more info about one of the longest mysteries in the sagas would have been worth it....

I would NOT get the Hayden ghost figure because I'd rather have the original Seb. redone....but, I'm always a sucker for figures when I find them dirt cheep at outlet stores and KBee...so I'd buy it only if it were like....a quarter.

Sorry for the confusion....perhaps my humor has lessened in my old(er) age. Maybe my wife is speaking true when she says, "you're not funny." :dis:

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 04:49 PM
lol, well I thought it was pretty cool that he did it, but I am with you in that I would have LOVED to see the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn in ROTS, hopefully its a deleted scene.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2005, 05:07 PM
lol, well I thought it was pretty cool that he did it, but I am with you in that I would have LOVED to see the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn in ROTS, hopefully its a deleted scene.

What I would have suggested in the production meeting with Lucas was having Hayden "reshoot" the unmasking scenes....Jabba was inserted back into his "original" ANH scene with Solo, so I know Lucas has the technology to make that happen....had THAT been done, I could buy into the spirit redux, and it would have been a BETTER transition between the two sagas....;)

I just don't like the idea of Luke seeing two different "fathers" in that final scene, especially after the closer he gets at the death star docking bay/funeral pyre....

ROTJLuke
08-09-2005, 05:11 PM
I think Lucas was trying to show Anakin on the light side, how he looked before he joined the dark side of the force.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2005, 06:03 PM
I appreciate why Lucas did it...but having been fortunate enough to have seen that original moment on film way back when I was a kid was huge moment in the Saga for me (personally) and brought a lot of closure to a magical story that impacted my young imagination. :cry: I appreciate some revision, but some sacred cows are better left untouched, even by Master Lucas....

Come on, evil father and orphaned son reconciled at death? :cry: And you're going to make the Skywalker's eternal spirit younger than Luke's recongnizable Death Star II father....and younger than Obi-Wan's spirit???? We already accept that Anakin was able to retain his force self (with little explanation...unless Qui-gon did some rapid supernatual visiation during Annie's dying moments), but let Luke see his father for who he was and would have been without the dark lord suit.... Too many worms let out of that can....:ermm:

CooLJoE
08-09-2005, 06:22 PM
You know my opinion

<-----

:p :D



Whoever said that the Hayden spirit was there so Luke recognized him better, must not be seeing the same StarWars movies that I'm seeing. Luke would never recognize Hayden as Anakin. He NEVER saw Anakin in that form until the spirit scene. Heck, if I was Luke seeing the spirits I'd be like "WTF is that? What happened to my father? What a jip."

Sebastian did the Anakin part well, and him as the spirit completes it ALOT better than Hayden ever could. It was what, 30 some years after ROTS that Vader died? Hes not going to look the same as Hayden, so "reshooting" the scenes is a bad idea. And since you can't reshoot the scenes, it makes no sense to throw in Hayden as the spirit of Anakin. Luke took the helmet off and saw Sebastion, so it makes WAY more sense to see him as a spirit.



Besides, Lucas ruined the whole "only Jedi can become a spirit" thing when they explained in ROTS that the "spirit thing" was discovered by Qui-Gon learning to cheat death (which if you recall, a sith had learned to do previously, but never utilized it for a spirit form......that we know of). So in that essence, Vader could have learned the ability over the years and only used it at the end, making Sebastian a good choice as the spirit since that would be how he looked when he learned the trick.






Oh and no, I would not buy a spirit Anakin with the hayden look. Holograph version yes, but not spirit. And besides, last I heard they were planning to make one, but it was a holograph and not spirit.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2005, 08:21 PM
You know my opinion

<-----

:p :D



Whoever said that the Hayden spirit was there so Luke recognized him better, must not be seeing the same StarWars movies that I'm seeing. Luke would never recognize Hayden as Anakin. He NEVER saw Anakin in that form until the spirit scene. Heck, if I was Luke seeing the spirits I'd be like "WTF is that? What happened to my father? What a jip."

.

Well that sums up why I didn't like Hayden as Anakin's spirit in ROTJ redux...I would by the holograph....not the "spirit."

evenflow
08-09-2005, 09:35 PM
I am not happy that they did it, but since they did, I would buy the figure if they made one. I think it's just a matter of time anyway.

2-1B
08-09-2005, 10:51 PM
I'd rather have a Ricky Dick McCallum spirit figure...signifying the end to his yes man days at Lucasfilm.

The Rick isn't going anywhere, he's got TV shows and other stuff to work on.

McC is eternal ! ! ! lol

JimJamBonds
08-09-2005, 11:00 PM
The Rick isn't going anywhere, he's got TV shows and other stuff to work on.

McC is eternal ! ! ! lol

Long live The Rick! :p

bobafrett
08-09-2005, 11:30 PM
Oh and no, I would not buy a spirit Anakin with the hayden look. Holograph version yes, but not spirit. And besides, last I heard they were planning to make one, but it was a holograph and not spirit.



I hope so.

Sebastian Shaw is the right and only spirit for ROTJ. If they do Hayden for the spirit Anakin, why don't they go ahead and use Ewan for the spirit Obi Wan, and Yoda when he was just a sock puppet.

JimJamBonds
08-09-2005, 11:43 PM
I hope so.

Sebastian Shaw is the right and only spirit for ROTJ. If they do Hayden for the spirit Anakin, why don't they go ahead and use Ewan for the spirit Obi Wan, and Yoda when he was just a sock puppet.

Maybe because we see the older Obi Wan in IV, V and VI and we never see the old Anakin.

Qui-Long Gone
08-10-2005, 07:38 AM
Maybe because we see the older Obi Wan in IV, V and VI and we never see the old Anakin.


But we DO see the older Anakin at his death....that's our point....just as it would be funky to have Ewan as a younger Obi-Wan, after we've seen the "older Ben" all three films, why have Hayden (who did two films) as the spirit when Luke saw an older father figure? ;)

DarthQuack
08-10-2005, 08:11 AM
Luke smiles at the end of ROTJ because he sees his father as he knew and remembered him. I bet when he looked and saw Hayden he was like "who the f*^k is this punk."

Mandalorian Candidat
08-10-2005, 09:08 AM
The Rick isn't going anywhere, he's got TV shows and other stuff to work on.

McC is eternal ! ! ! lol


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! BASTARDS! :cry:

ROTJLuke
08-10-2005, 10:51 AM
Well I didnt mind the tweak that Lucas did to it. I liked it with Sebastiain, and I liked it with Hayden. Hopefully we get a Holo Ani (young) and a Spirit Ani (Old) to make people happy :)

JimJamBonds
08-10-2005, 10:52 AM
But we DO see the older Anakin at his death....that's our point....just as it would be funky to have Ewan as a younger Obi-Wan, after we've seen the "older Ben" all three films, why have Hayden (who did two films) as the spirit when Luke saw an older father figure? ;)

Yeah I know what you guys are saying however the Anakin at his death is still the crusty **** that nearly died on Mustafar not some old crusty turd like Obi-Wan was. The Obi-Wan we see is "what is", the Seb. Anakin is "what could have been."


Luke smiles at the end of ROTJ because he sees his father as he knew and remembered him. I bet when he looked and saw Hayden he was like "who the f*^k is this punk."

Ahh minus the scars... and the wheezing... and the black armor etc. The Anakin that Sebastain Shaw portrayed never exisisted as we see him folks, the ROTJ DVD version Anakin however did. That is my point. ;)

jedi master sal
08-10-2005, 02:53 PM
I'll chime in quickly here.

Anakin at the time of his death is 44 years old.

He's 9 during TPM
19 in AOTC
22 in ROTS
40 in ANH
41 in ESB
44 in ROTJ

Now, Sebastian Shaw IIRC, was in his 70-80s when he shot that scene. So technically niether Hayden or Sebastian are correct for the scene.

Though I still believe that Sebastian is the more correct choice. As others have stated, Sebastian Shaw's portrayel of Anakin is what could have been. Luke can easily recognize him from the scarred visage he saw on the Death Star, so it's much easier to believe seeing Sebastian than Hayden.

Now, please fellas, let's get back on topic or I'll have to move the thread...

If they make this figure, I'll get it, but not for use in the final ROTJ scene but rather an EU scene. Undoubtedly he sent a holographic message at some point in his Jedi robes during the Clone Wars.

-Sal

Qui-Long Gone
08-10-2005, 05:49 PM
Has anyone heard rumors of a ROTJ spirit pack coming back out anytime soon?

2-1B
08-11-2005, 12:26 AM
I don't understand how you can say Luke saw him as he remembered him . . . that gussied up old codger in ROTJ was NOT the way Luke remembered him, not at all. lol Luke saw him as some ****er with part of his head chunked off and no hands. 'Bas at the end had a hairstyle and it was even parted, to boot. :)

Now, had the original spirit been a torso with partial limbs and mega-scarring, then yes I would say it is a foolish move because it does change the nature of the Force spirit . . . but since Oldie Skywalker was able to morph into a healed spirit and not a literal appearance as what he looked like when he died, then I have no problem with him taking on the healed and whole appearance of what he looked like before he turned.

Ghosts are funny that way. lol

And really, you're not giving Luke enough credit here . . . if he looks out there and sees a spirit of Ben whom he has spoken with in the past, then a spirit of Yoda whom he just talked to a few days ago, and then a third Jedi appears next to them, WTF else could it be ? ? ? Jeez, give Luke some credit, he CAN figure some things out for himself ! lol lol lol

darthzirock
08-11-2005, 01:13 AM
Shaw was 78 when ROTJ was released, meaning he was 77 when they shot his scenes. He was actually older than Alec Guinness. Of course, this had more to do with Lucas' decision during pre-production on TPM to make Anakin younger than his initial age of 12-13. By putting a 9-year-old into those situations, it drastically changed the dynamic between Anakin and Obi-Wan in the latter episodes of the PT.

It was pretty obvious that Shaw, without the Vader burn make-up, was waaaaay past the 44-years-old that Vader would be in ROTJ. But, should he recast the role yet again for Spirit Anakin? Or use CGI to digitally make Shaw younger (which is a possibility, as the software does exist)? The easiest answer seemed to be the one he chose: use Hayden during the filming of ROTS for the ROTJ DVD release.

As for an action figure of Spirit Anakin as seen in the ROTJ DVD, I think that's the only Spirit Anakin figure we'll ever see made again. Lucas considers what's in the DVD to be the definitive versions of the OT ... until he makes more changes for the 3-D releases! (In which: 1. Greedo will shoot first, but it bounces off the wall and hits him, clearing Han Solo of any murder charges! 2. The Wampa is now a giant Ewok with an overbite. 3. The Rancor carries Oola to the top of the Imperial Senate building and is shot down by TIE Fighters as Palpatine cries, "'Twas beauty killed the beast!")

Slicker
08-11-2005, 01:59 AM
This argument has already been gone over and the only reason I remember is because I started it.:p Here's the linky (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=25299&highlight=punk+kid) if you guys wanna dig up a nearly year old thread.

BTW, Sebastian shoulda been left in.:p

2-1B
08-11-2005, 04:07 AM
Right, Sebastian should be in just like the Navy should be allowed to fly. :p

Why dig when we can start a new pile ? :evil:

Ummm okay Slick, I just checked that thread and your very first post goes to show how foolish I explained it to be in my last post, how foolish it would be that Luke would have to "wonder" who that guy is . . . like I said, WTF else would it be ? ;) (for the record, I'm not calling you foolish for your opinion, I'm saying Luke would be foolish not to know who that is).
:D

ROTJLuke
08-11-2005, 10:00 AM
Like Ive stated before, Im neutral on this one, I go both ways...:) (lol, thats terrible sounding, isnt it?)

DiminutiveJedi
08-11-2005, 10:31 AM
Anyone who has seen their father as he is now and has seen his high school or college photo, recognizes that man in the picture as his father.
Luke saw Anakin as he was that day, a scarred pale old man, and then he saw his spirit take the form of a 20-something.
He didn't even pause. He knew who that young fellah was. That face had "Anakin" written all over it.
If you don't believe me, go look at your father's high school picture, or your own kindergarten picture. It's not like age completely changes your face to the point that you look like another person all together. :rolleyes:

ROTJLuke
08-11-2005, 10:35 AM
Anyone who has seen their father as he is now and has seen his high school or college photo, recognizes that man in the picture as his father.
Luke saw Anakin as he was that day, a scarred pale old man, and then he saw his spirit take the form of a 20-something.
He didn't even pause. He knew who that young fellah was. That face had "Anakin" written all over it.
If you don't believe me, go look at your father's high school picture, or your own kindergarten picture. It's not like age completely changes your face to the point that you look like another person all together. :rolleyes:


Extremly good point, very well said too! :)

jedi master sal
08-11-2005, 02:09 PM
3. The Rancor carries Oola to the top of the Imperial Senate building and is shot down by TIE Fighters as Palpatine cries, "'Twas beauty killed the beast!")

Now that's FUNNY!!!

Mind if I use that?

bobafrett
08-11-2005, 09:25 PM
Anyone who has seen their father as he is now and has seen his high school or college photo, recognizes that man in the picture as his father.
Luke saw Anakin as he was that day, a scarred pale old man, and then he saw his spirit take the form of a 20-something.
He didn't even pause. He knew who that young fellah was. That face had "Anakin" written all over it.
If you don't believe me, go look at your father's high school picture, or your own kindergarten picture. It's not like age completely changes your face to the point that you look like another person all together. :rolleyes:

Yes, except Luke probably never saw a photo of his dear old dad. The only thing he saw was the man whom he removed the mask from. If I had seen my dad for the first time when I was in my late teens/ early twentys I wouldn't recognize an old high school picture of him. I still think they should have just left Shaw in as the Spirit, next thing you know they'll add Qui Gon Ginn to the Spirit mix mash at the end of Jedi, then change Lukes smile to a baffled confused look instead.

2-1B
08-12-2005, 02:08 AM
Frett, I'm not sure that's what Diminutive was getting at - it doesn't matter that Luke never saw a photo of pops, he could still recognize him.

I remember as a kid looking through my parents old high school yearbooks and I was able to pick them out in several shots.

The "problem" here, I think, is that we have 2 different actors playing the part so we have to suspend that disbelief of them not really looking that similar, just like Jake in TPM to Hayden in AOTC (and for that matter, Yoda in TPM to Yoda in AOTC :crazed: ).

Anyway, last time we see Hayden in the prequels, he's all charred up and then next time we see under Vader's helmet (ignoring ESB) it's the same "person" but over time he doesn't look as crispy as he did going into the suit.

So, for the sake of the movies, Sebastian under the mask is the same guy as Hayden going into the mask. If we look at it as Luke not recognizing the guy because we the audience know it's a different guy and Hayden doesn't look like the guy who USED TO play the ghost, then I see how it doesn't make sense. ;) However if you see Hayden all messed up in ROTS on 2-1B's operating table and then Sebastian in E6, well, from Luke's POV that IS the same guy and he would therefore recognize him.

jedi master sal
08-12-2005, 10:11 AM
Well, no matter all of this, I'm sure Luke would have gone onto the Holonet and found out everything he could have about his father. Whether that was on the Lars homestead as a boy, or after the events of ROTJ. There would surely be pictures of his yound father all over the holonet before he became crispy and old.

If he looked him up while on the Lars homestead than he WOULD have known that the ghost was Anakin.

This only begs the question of did he. And if he did, would he have also found out about that little pod-race that his father won oh so many years ago...

Answers dangit we need answers.

Now back to the action figure...

2-1B
08-12-2005, 01:17 PM
Sebastian Shaw:wiped:

abell748
08-13-2005, 08:39 AM
Maybe because he was a Sith Lord, the Force spirit is a reflection of Anakin before he made the turn to the dark side. Since becoming a full body ghost is something only light side users can accomplish, I suppose the Force allowed Anakin to appear as he was before he left the light. IMHO.