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seanmcfripp
09-21-2005, 06:56 PM
This thread my jump around around a bit, but I think all the points I'll be making loosely tie together. Feel free to respond to it as a whole, or to the individual points.


Does anyone else wish the two trilogies looked more like each other? I'm speaking strictly of about the visual aspects: production design, costumes, special effects, etc. Let me break it down piece by piece.

- Hair and faces: I'm a big fan of ugly people, especially when it comes to actors...and I mean that in the best way! I'll take an interesting face over a "pretty" face any day. Do you ever get the feeling that the people who populate the PT universe are just a little too pretty? Why does the PT universe have to be completely devoid of a General Madine comb-over? There had to be at least one other guy out there in the galaxy who had that wonderfully terrible hair-do before 'ol Crix. And what about sideburns? ANH is full of guys with great sideburns. General Tagge had those wicked pointy sideburns and a kickin' gladiator crop job. What about feathered mop tops, ala Luke? Nowhere to be found in the PT unfortunately.

- Monitors and HUDs: It occured to me when we first see Obi-wan point to Tatooine on the navigation monitor of the queens ship in TPM, that the PT universe had some pretty spiffy equiptment. I guess the Empire really jacked up the technology industries of universe when they took over, because the X-wings and TIE fighters of the OT seemed to be outfitted with Pong for use as a targeting system. I wonder how that happened. Obers gets to look at hi def on the queen's starship, but poor Han Solo has to look a a blinking blue light when looking for a safe port.

- City culture and fashion: The citizens of Coruscant sport some crazy get-ups. What the heck happened to fashion over twenty years that everyone ended up in polyester and double-knits?

I'm obviously having a little fun here, but seriously, why couldn't the trilogies have matched up a little better. Why couldn't everyone in the PT be made up to look like they walked out of the late '70s or early '80s? I think at the very least, it would have made the PT a little more fun. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to think that it may have even helped bridge the two a little better. Lucas is apparently a very visual guy, so I'm surprised he didn't push for a little more of what I'm talking about. If Princess Leia wears a disarmingly simple dress, then I don't see why Padme couldn't have worn something similar. Instead, Natalie Portman is forced to drown in a number of needlessly ornate and stuffy costumes. Do Padme's queen costumes "wow" you? I think that's what they're supposed to do, but I dunno, maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I need an actor to bring a costume to life for it to work for me. I know Padme had a white jumpsuit in ATOC, and that was supposed to suggest a kind of Leia feel, but again, it just didn't work for me. It was too tailored and too modern. The boots had kind of a techy, fabricated, futuristic feel, as where Leia just wore plain white chelsea boots. I know, I know...I get stuck on this little stupid stuff, but hang with me...

And getting back to that navigation monitor that Obi-wan uses to locate Tatooine. Did that special effects shot "wow" you? I think most of us just took it for granted. The only reason it jumped out at me is that it really didn't fit into any logical timeline. Obi-wan has this fancy monitor, yet Han Solo has a blinking blue light, which by the way, works just as well as a device to propel the story. I guess someone would argue "Well, we can't really see what Han is looking at, so it very well could be a fancy monitor, and all we see is the blue light...", but I'm not buyin' that. Those little effects shots that Lucas seems to think really "flesh out" the PT are totally unnecessary and actually detrimental to maintaining the timeline.

Think about this one: the cantina from AHN vs. the sports bar from ATOC. Is anyone else here bothered that the people in SW watch football? I mean, it's pretty unmistakable...the game those droids are playing on a grassy grid-iron field looks awfully familiar. And since when do the people in SW watch tv? I dunno, there's just something so ordinary and modern about that stupid sports bar. On the other hand, the cantina from ANH has a kind of timeless quality about it. It could be a cowboy saloon. It could be a tavern from the dark ages. Heck, Frodo could walk up to the bar and order a drink and he'd fit right in. It's exotic and wierd and threatening all at once. Most importantly, it doesn't particularly remind me of any place I've ever been before. The sports bar from ATOC is like the ESPN zone. And of course, the women are dressed like every other woman from the late nineties and early 21st century. They have tight, low-rise pants with a boot cut. They have those all-too-common high-rise shoes that thankfully have gone out of style. I think I even saw a woman with a sun tatoo around her navel...try to tell me those aren't trendy these days. I'm not sure I have an alternative to offer up, but I'm pretty confident in saying that the bar from AOTC sucks pretty bad.

I don't want to be totally negative, so I'll give a positive. I really like how they approached the communication hologram effect. It's pretty much the same as seen in the OT, only now we have shots where the camera pans around the hologram (think of the hologram of senator Palpatine in the beginning of TPM). I'm perfectly fine with this because hey, all the shots with that effect in the OT just happen to be static. And I guess we do actually see different angles of holograms, we just don't get a pan (think of the Leia hologram in ANH...we see her in profile, then for the close up, we get a front/side view, but it's edited as two different shots). We get to see two or three distinctly different angles of what we logically conclude is a fully rendered 3D hologram. The fact that TPM shows us one of these holograms fully rendered via a camera pan is perfectly logical.

Back to the negative...

I brought this thread up because it occurred to me that Lucas drowned his film-making people in a sea of useless details. It's bad enough Lucas was pushing his guys to do live actors riding CGI animals (which still hasn't been done correctly in my opinion), but he also had to bog them down with having to animate robots playing football in a sports bar? Was it really that important to the story? Why devote tons and tons of time and resources to Padme's costumes when she could just have worn one simple, easily identifiable outfit (like Leia)? Did this film even have a producer to help make these kinds of decisions? *cough* Rick yes-man McCullum *cough cough*

I guess I was just looking for a place in the PT that feels a little more like SW, that's all. I suppose we got the Rebel Blockade runner in ROTS, but only for a few moments, and somehow seeing Jimmy Smits lumbering down the hall just brings it down a few notches.

bobafrett
09-21-2005, 10:53 PM
I have to agree with you, it felt to me like two seperate trilogys, because I think they put way to much eye candy into the PT. The OT was much simpler as far as effects go, and I loved it far more than the PT. I do think that Lucas did try to tie the hairstyles of ROTS with ANH, but considering it is almost 20 years between those two films, hairstyles do change in that much time. When I was 20, I had an afro, now 20 years later at age 40, I wear my hair short, and you don't see the hair on guys so much like you did when the hair bands of the late 80's and into the 90's had. Even Metalicca cut the hair.

I'm sure if George wanted to, he could go about updating the OT to make it look more like the PT with his visual effects.

Rocketboy
09-21-2005, 11:28 PM
But as Obi-Wan told Luke, it was "a more civilized time." :p


Even Metalicca cut the hair.And just look what happened to them...

JimJamBonds
09-22-2005, 12:57 AM
Why couldn't everyone in the PT be made up to look like they walked out of the late '70s or early '80s?

Actually it would be before the late 70's/80's since they are prequels.;) As its already been said some of the stuff is trends that happened at the time of the OT like big sideburns that isn't so much the case now.


City culture and fashion: The citizens of Coruscant sport some crazy get-ups. What the heck happened to fashion over twenty years that everyone ended up in polyester and double-knits?

We don't see Coruscant again until Jedi and the citizens seem to more or less 'match.' I'd have to watch it again but the dress of Tatooine also seems to match as well in the ot & pt. I think it depends on where you are and if that planet is rather 'backwater' or the center of activity.

I think some of the items mentioned are rather 'nice and shiny' to point out the difference between the Republic and Empire. Sure it can be a bit too black and white but the same can be said of the Force. ;)

2-1B
09-22-2005, 03:43 AM
I dig the difference in visual styles. The PT looks like something I would like to live in, with several flavors I would enjoy while the OT "is a period of civil war" that has been going on for an undisclosed amount of time (but I'm sure an EU novel will be along soon to give us a timeframe :p ).

Anyway, the way I see it, the Rebellion has been at it for quite some time when the Tantive 4 comes into view in ANH. Everything associated with it will be pretty dingy, like what we get in the OT. Not related to the Rebellion, Tatooine looks much like it did in TPM and Cloud City looks pretty suave itself, afterall they have the coolest Pimp in the galaxy running it. I really love the look of Cloud City, it looks to me like it would fit right in with the PT. So what is left ? Just the Death Star and I think it is designed to be a very sterile environment.

seanmcfripp
09-22-2005, 08:37 AM
...Cloud City looks pretty suave itself, afterall they have the coolest Pimp in the galaxy running it. I really love the look of Cloud City, it looks to me like it would fit right in with the PT.

Great point, but don't you wish the folks from Coruscant looked a little more like the folks from Bespin? To me, Bespin set the precedent for how "city folk" in SW are supposed to look. Men who are "dressed up" for business in SW should look like Lando and Lobot, poofy sleeves and all. Women should look like Leia when she is dressed up to go out with Han and Lando for "refreshments".

In fact, doesn't the SE version ESB have a cut-away shot of some citizens reacting to Lando's evacuation announcement? I'm pretty sure that wasn't there in the original. Anyway, I love that scene because it fits in so seemlessly witht he rest of the look of the movie. In fact, as of this moment, I'm still not 100% sure the shot wasn't in the original, that's how great it looks. To the point, the reason it fits in so well is that the people look like they walked right out of 1979. If Lucas could take such care in creating a new scene for ESB, why couldn't he have taken the same care when designing the look of the PT?

JimJamBonds
09-22-2005, 10:47 AM
Great point, but don't you wish the folks from Coruscant looked a little more like the folks from Bespin? To me, Bespin set the precedent for how "city folk" in SW are supposed to look. Men who are "dressed up" for business in SW should look like Lando and Lobot, poofy sleeves and all. Women should look like Leia when she is dressed up to go out with Han and Lando for "refreshments".

Yes and no, Bespin is the only city we see in the ot that isn't in the sticks so in that sense it does set the standard. However Coruscant is the center of everything so in that sense it sets the standard.


In fact, doesn't the SE version ESB have a cut-away shot of some citizens reacting to Lando's evacuation announcement? I'm pretty sure that wasn't there in the original. Anyway, I love that scene because it fits in so seemlessly witht he rest of the look of the movie. In fact, as of this moment, I'm still not 100% sure the shot wasn't in the original, that's how great it looks. To the point, the reason it fits in so well is that the people look like they walked right out of 1979. If Lucas could take such care in creating a new scene for ESB, why couldn't he have taken the same care when designing the look of the PT?

Yup it was added.

CaptainSolo1138
09-22-2005, 11:06 AM
To me, Bespin set the precedent for how "city folk" in SW are supposed to look.
How can there be a "precedent" though. The galaxy is HUGE. Look at the different attire of "city folk" right here on Earth. People in Detroit dress way different from people in, say, Calcutta. Does that mean that, when compared to the other, one isn't relevent?

Alot of the planets from the PT weren't in the OT. The ones that were, though, stayed pretty close to the gear worn in the OT (i.e. Tatooine). So saying that the clothes worn on a planet not even appearing in the OT aren't "OT" doesn't stand.

seanmcfripp
09-22-2005, 11:15 AM
I just realized that I may need to clarify my position on this issue before someone loses sight of the point I'm trying to make...

I think of the SW universe as being very much like Middle Earth. It's an environment by which fantasy is allowed to play out. To me, the OT clearly and specifically defines how that universe is supposed to look, so the people and places should look pretty much the same in all six films. Think about it this way: hobbits look like hobbits in LOTR, no matter when the story takes place. The younger Bilbo dresses the same as the older Bilbo, who in turn dresses like Frodo. In fact, all hobbits pretty much dress the same, no matter what the time period is. In other words, we danged well know a hobbit when we see one, because there is a motif that is consistently used throughout the timeline of the story. A hobbit from 500 years ago is going to fit right in with a hobbit from "today". The Shire was, is, and always will be the same, no matter what.

There is no evolution of "style" as the years pass by in Middle Earth. The people and places that populate Middle Earth exist because they have exist in a particular way, or else they don't serve the story. It can't be a fantasy if we get bogged down in little details that bring their world closer to our own every day existence. We want to identify with their world on a thematical level, not a literal one. A fantasy world should exist in a bubble...the people there always look the same, no matter when I decide to visit.

So really, while it may seem like the SW universe is huge, it really isn't. It's a quaint little environment where everything revolves around the same people. The cantina fits, but the sports bar doesn't. It's just a gut reaction I have, and I'm trying to figure out why.

Clear as mud, right? Hopefully someone else will understand what I'm trying to say and better articulate the idea.

2-1B
09-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Yeah, uh, that's where you lost me, with the Middle Earth stuff. Sorry, I like LOTR but I'm not comparing the 2 sagas. lol

In answer to Cloud City v. Coruscant, I would pretty much parrot what El Cappy said up there. :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-22-2005, 06:00 PM
As for the hairstyles, look at Anakin's in ROTS. Even though people nowadays have haircuts like that, I think it was meant to mesh with the shaggy styles of the OT. Obi-Wan looks the same; it's not like he had a mohawk or something in ROTS and short hair in ANH.

As far as the technologies go, well, Amidala's ship in TPM is brand-spankin' new, state-of-the-art, and so its inside technologies reflect that. In ANH, the Falcon has a rich history that goes back way before Han or even Lando, I mean it's even in ROTS and it's not new-looking there anyway. I don't know why the Empire decided to shift down in technology (tactical screens, especially), but the ghetto screens are shown in the Star Destroyer at the end of ROTS so it's cool with me. :) Maybe it was cheaper but just as effective.

JimJamBonds
09-23-2005, 12:28 AM
LOTR and Star Wars are two different beasts, but since you brought that up... the LOTR movies as far as I know don't have the big gaps between them like the pt and ot does. So you don't have the same issues as there is in SW (although I do know there are some flashbacks).

rbaumhauer
09-24-2005, 02:26 PM
In general, I agree that, for a whole host of reasons, the universe we see in the PT seems like a different place than the one we saw in the OT. While the things you mentioned specifically (hairstyles, clothing) all play a part in that, they are also subject to being dismissed out-of-hand for more-or-less "logical" reasons.

While I know what you're trying to get at with the "fantasy worlds should always look the same" idea, and I agree up to a point, I don't have a problem with some visual signs of "progress", given that we're dealing with a nominally "science fiction" universe, where LOTR is strictly high fantasy (a more conservative genre). It just doesn't feel to me like the place we see in the PT is a logical predecessor to the place we see in the OT. Lucas tried really hard (in AOTC and, especially, ROTS) to start dropping visual cues, but it felt forced to me - the clones don't look to me like the precursors of the OT Stormtroopers, but more like rather thinly-disguised "Star Wars" knockoffs, just different enough to keep someone from getting sued for trademark infringement.

The real esthetic difference between the two trilogies is much more basic, but not so obvious - it's the "opening up" of shots made possible by digital filmmaking, and the effect isn't just an esthetic one, but one that impacts how we view the characters and the universe they inhabit.

The OT, for all of its technology and ideas, remains a pretty intimate series of films by modern standards. While some of the sets and locales were on a large scale (the Death Star, the Lars homestead, etc), most of the shots in the OT depicted large-in-frame characters in relatively close settings - rooms, hallways, even the forests on Endor. The characters are central, with little in the way of background distractions. The "Star Wars" universe of the OT feels big, but also "homey" in some way, inhabitable and liveable. The OT are, at a fundamental level, humanistic movies.

The PT, in contrast, is all about dramatic vistas - even when main characters are shot in the foreground, there are layers upon layers of activity behind them, always drawing the eye to the corners of the frame, to the background. Everything is busy beyond reason (it was done because it could be done), and the characters are always, it seems, dwarfed by their surroundings. The PT "Star Wars" universe is beautiful, even awe-inspiring in many ways, but we are always held at a distance from it, we are never really within it.

That's the key difference for me - the OT has the camera right down in the world, and the production design is all about making the things right in front of the camera seem real and used, authentic. The PT often has the camera far removed from the characters, or framing the characters against a grand-scale backdrop, and the effect is that we don't feel like we are within the world, but simply watching it. The production design concentrates on scale and volume, not so much on establishing the reality of the things right in front of us.

This, I think, is the fundamental visual flaw of the Prequels - Lucas, in his determination to make movies that felt "bigger" than the OT, concentrated too much on sweeping vistas and grand scale, and ended up with movies that are almost indistiguishable from current video games. It was the effort put into the design of the Falcon, Lukes' landspeeder, X-wings, Snowspeeders, etc, that made the OT seem real and lived in - as a filmmaker, Lucas understood that the background was just the background. There is no corresponding affection for any of the foreground elements of the PT - it's all people talking at each other while streams of traffic and vast cityscapes are highlighted by the setting sun in the background.

Like you, I feel like I'm still not getting to the point as clearly as I'd like, but this is as close as I can get at the moment.

Rick

Devo
09-24-2005, 04:10 PM
I just have to think about the absurdity of Jar Jar Binks occupying the same universe as Han Solo to know that the prequels are wrong. However I agree with the posts of seammcfripp and rbaumhauer. I believe you both put into words exactly what I think.

I'll also add that the special effects techniques used in the two trilogies are too much of a contrast. I won't try to argue which is better CGI or models/men in suits, thats been done to death, however CGI looks like CGI and models and men in suits look like models and men in suits - CGI hasn't reached a point where you can't tell the difference (some argue that it never can). I think some restraint should have been used on the CGI, not just because story, script and acting suffered but because the prequels now have visuals and scenarios far beyond anything that was possible in the OT - therefore creating inconsistencies between the two trilogies in the visuals and aesthetics and also in the 'scale' of the universe (the literal scale of worlds and also the scale of events, specifically battles).

JediTricks
09-24-2005, 11:27 PM
I don't like the general aesthetic of the PT, I don't like the ships, architecture, costumes, even weaponry. It seems too often to be trying hard to be big and over the top and colorful and "look at how smart we were to do this" to the point where it doesn't retain any of the flavor of the original Star Wars.

I think part of the problem too is that Lucas wants so many things in each shot, so much going on that it overwhelms the shot and defocuses the mind, one doesn't know where to look and doesn't feel like playing "where's waldo" for the interesting stuff.

Largely, the Prequel universe doesn't feel like it's evolving into the Star Wars universe except when it feels very forced and rammed down the throat - though perhaps those forced SW elements only seem that way because they're set in a sea of things that aren't. Certainly though I feel like this Prequel universe isn't a mere 30-something years before the OT, there's no sense of history to me when I see this stuff unlike the OT stuff some of which feels far older than 30 years prior.

2-1B
09-25-2005, 07:42 PM
I think part of the problem too is that Lucas wants so many things in each shot, so much going on that it overwhelms the shot and defocuses the mind, one doesn't know where to look and doesn't feel like playing "where's waldo" for the interesting stuff.

Got any examples ?

I can't think of any moments in the last 6 years of prequel releases where my mind was defocused and I can't relate to not knowing where to look so if you have any examples, that would be very interesting. :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-25-2005, 07:48 PM
Got any examples ?

I can't think of any moments in the last 6 years of prequel releases where my mind was defocused and I can't relate to not knowing where to look so if you have any examples, that would be very interesting. :)
I agree with Caesar.

There are mulitple scenes with interesting things going on in the background, but that's been happening since ANH. Those background things are just to look at once you've seen everything else, and more often than not they don't really draw too much attention to themselves. Meaning, such as when the Falcon shows up in ROTS, there's not a big old sign saying, "Look, it's the Falcon!" It's just there as a fun addition for those who know about it.

rbaumhauer
09-26-2005, 12:06 AM
Ah, but in the OT, we'd have been ON the Falcon - in the PT, it's just another big, pretty shot with tiny little people off in one corner. It does nothing to advance the story, and does nothing in the way of giving the viewer important information - the group of people is too distant to even register exactly who they are. But it sure is pretty............

And to say that the background chaos has been "going on since ANH" is a bit of a leap - there just isn't anything in the OT to compare with the sheer busy-ness of each and every shot on Coruscant in the PT.

JimJamBonds
09-26-2005, 12:43 AM
Ah, but in the OT, we'd have been ON the Falcon - in the PT, it's just another big, pretty shot with tiny little people off in one corner. It does nothing to advance the story, and does nothing in the way of giving the viewer important information - the group of people is too distant to even register exactly who they are. But it sure is pretty............

Sure it advances the story, its an establishing shot between the crash landing and Palpers, Obi and Anakin being greated by the Senators. Nice and quick, was it REALLY needed? No but I think it helps the movie flow a bit smoother with it in there.


And to say that the background chaos has been "going on since ANH" is a bit of a leap - there just isn't anything in the OT to compare with the sheer busy-ness of each and every shot on Coruscant in the PT.

Well you're both right, it has been going on since ANH but with each movie the shoots get thicker and thicker.

2-1B
09-26-2005, 12:45 AM
Sure it advances the story, its an establishing shot between the crash landing and Palpers, Obi and Anakin being greated by the Senators. Nice and quick, was it REALLY needed? No but I think it helps the movie flow a bit smoother with it in there.

Establishing shot ? "Buckeye!" :thumbsup:

JimJamBonds
09-26-2005, 12:55 AM
Establishing shot ? "Buckeye!" :thumbsup:

I don't think the athletic department at The Ohio State University would give out a buckeye for such a minimal thing.* However I think buckeye's go out to those involved in the Obi vs. Vader battle.






* Well now that Andy Geiger isn't with the AD anymore at least. :D

stillakid
09-26-2005, 08:08 AM
Meaning, such as when the Falcon shows up in ROTS, there's not a big old sign saying, "Look, it's the Falcon!" It's just there as a fun addition for those who know about it.

Which describes a few elements in the Prequels, from R2's moronic "introduction" in TPM to including the Fett Family Singers and even having a Vader-esque character make a cameo appearance. Each and every instance was simply a gratuitous "hey look at me!" moment so that fanboys would have an alternative to Playboy for awhile. None advanced the story in any meaningful or quality way and was merely there to titillate.

JimJamBonds
09-26-2005, 12:39 PM
I'd say having the Fett's in AOTC advances the story plenty. We learn about the creation of the clone army and the basis for the troopers of the OT.

rbaumhauer
09-26-2005, 12:52 PM
Sure it advances the story, its an establishing shot between the crash landing and Palpers, Obi and Anakin being greated by the Senators. Nice and quick, was it REALLY needed? No but I think it helps the movie flow a bit smoother with it in there.

I'm not saying the shot wasn't needed, and I do recognize that it's an establishing shot. My point is that Lucas' determination to make everything so grand and sweeping in the PT led to a shot that was more about "being pretty" than conveying the essential information.

A group of important characters is there, but the shot is so distant, you can't even identify most of them. However, having a more useful, tighter shot wouldn't have had the "WOW" factor that seems to have been Lucas' over-riding concern.

2-1B
09-26-2005, 01:43 PM
"being pretty" ? Buckeye ! :thumbsup:

Markimus
09-26-2005, 02:20 PM
I. Think about it this way: hobbits look like hobbits in LOTR, no matter when the story takes place. The younger Bilbo dresses the same as the older Bilbo, who in turn dresses like Frodo. In fact, all hobbits pretty much dress the same, no matter what the time period is. to say and .

You can't compare the aesthtics of the LOTR with Star Wars ! The entire time frame of the LOTR movies is about 1 year. Star Wars takes place over what ? 20-25 years.

Of course things change over the years. It would be insane if it didn't.

You don't like the evolution of the Clones to the Stormtroopers ? You can see the obvious transition there.
The dress of the Jedi is the same, through all the movies. They are a culture that would not change. The planet Tatooine looks the same throughout all six films. That's a backward planet that would not alter much over time and it doesn't.
You've got the shape of the Star Destroyers in the ships of AOTC and ROTS. The Jedi Starfighter looks like it could become a Tie-Fighter. ARC fighter similar to X-wing. On and on....

CaptainSolo1138
09-26-2005, 03:30 PM
I'd say having the Fett's in AOTC advances the story plenty. We learn about the creation of the clone army and the basis for the troopers of the OT.
But Dr. JimmyJam, it could have been ANYBODY. There are, by my best guess, 300 billion trillion people in the SW universe (give or take a dozen). Why, oh why, did GLu (or whoever was responsible) have to pick the uber fan friendly Fett clan to head the clone project? I'm sure they weren't the ONLY people in the ENTIRE galaxy who were in "specimen"-type shape.

While the plot does advance the story, the characters picked to do it was pointless "flash".

Do you like apples, Mr. Bonds? Well how do you like them apples?!:p :D

Slicker
09-26-2005, 03:56 PM
Each and every instance was simply a gratuitous "hey look at me!" moment so that fanboys would have an alternative to Playboy for awhile. None advanced the story in any meaningful or quality way and was merely there to titillate.Total agreeance stilla. I've said that for years now. The Fetts in AOTC were the epitomy of this. Totally unneeded.

Refer to Cappy's above post for the reasoning.

tagmac
09-26-2005, 07:48 PM
Actually, the Fetts being brought in served to show just why Boba is such a cold, yet effective bounty hunter.

CaptainSolo1138
09-26-2005, 08:23 PM
Actually, the Fetts being brought in served to show just why Boba is such a cold, yet effective bounty hunter.
So are Bossk, IG88, Dengar, Zuckass, and 4-LOM. One can assume this by watching ESB. Vader wouldn't call upon a buncha sissies, would he? I didn't need to see any of them in the PT to figure this out.

Rocketboy
09-26-2005, 08:41 PM
So are Bossk, IG88, Dengar, Zuckass, and 4-LOM. One can assume this by watching ESB. Vader wouldn't call upon a buncha sissies, would he? I didn't need to see any of them in the PT to figure this out.CONTRADICTION ALERT!
Dengar = sissy.

2-1B
09-26-2005, 11:54 PM
Not really, you can't spell Danger without D-e-n-g-a-r ;)

I never got moist over Boba Fett like so many nerdlings did, so it didn't bother me that he was tied in to the PT. Meh.

rbaumhauer
09-27-2005, 12:07 AM
I never got moist over Boba Fett like so many nerdlings did, so it didn't bother me that he was tied in to the PT. Meh.

I never got "moist" over him either, which is precisely why I hated the way he was brought into the PT. Years ago, Lucas expressed frustration at the "cult of Fett", insisting he was just created for story reasons, not to become some sort of cult figure.

Of course, George "I-never-revised-the-story-it's-always-been-just-like-this-since-1973" Lucas then has the whole Clone Wars storyline revolve around li'l Boba and his stone-cold daddy :rolleyes:

Rick

JimJamBonds
09-27-2005, 12:19 AM
But Dr. JimmyJam, it could have been ANYBODY. There are, by my best guess, 300 billion trillion people in the SW universe (give or take a dozen). Why, oh why, did GLu (or whoever was responsible) have to pick the uber fan friendly Fett clan to head the clone project? I'm sure they weren't the ONLY people in the ENTIRE galaxy who were in "specimen"-type shape.

While the plot does advance the story, the characters picked to do it was pointless "flash".

Do you like apples, Mr. Bonds? Well how do you like them apples?!:p :D

1) Your population estimation of the SW universe is well off. ;)

2) You are correct that there are all kinds of people/aliens/whatever that could have been used as the basis of the clones, however as you pointed out Bobber's is a fan fav. and many people have asked to know what his background story is. Now was it really needed? Nope, but personally I didn't take it an "alternative to Playboy" as Stilla said. Its a neat little thing but I don't belive it bogs down the story or makes people scream "HEY THERE IS A YOUNG BOBA FETT!!!" Since the timeline of the PT and OT are so close there are going to be numerous 'flashes' so I think its to be expected. But I don't think it was pointless.

3) Yes Cappers I like apples, infact I bought some Granny Smith's today. :pleased:

2-1B
09-27-2005, 12:28 AM
I never got "moist" over him either, which is precisely why I hated the way he was brought into the PT. Years ago, Lucas expressed frustration at the "cult of Fett", insisting he was just created for story reasons, not to become some sort of cult figure.

Of course, George "I-never-revised-the-story-it's-always-been-just-like-this-since-1973" Lucas then has the whole Clone Wars storyline revolve around li'l Boba and his stone-cold daddy :rolleyes:

Rick

I know what you mean, but I just don't care either way if they did or didn't use one of the OT characters as a relic of the Clone Wars. I always thought Bossk was the "coolest" (sorry to Mr. Dengar lol ) and if they would have had cloned Trandoshans running around, or IG-Robots, or Lobots, or previously unseen species of clones running around the PT, I just wouldn't care. :)

What it comes down to for me is that the WAY in which the Fetts were put into AOTC was pretty well done in my opinion.


3) Yes Cappers I like apples, infact I bought some Granny Smith's today.

Granny Smith ? "Buckeye !" :thumbsup:

JimJamBonds
09-27-2005, 12:56 PM
What it comes down to for me is that the WAY in which the Fetts were put into AOTC was pretty well done in my opinion.

Exactly, I too think it was done in a good way with the Fetts. Now on the other side I think the argument could be made that Chewie being in ROTS didn't serve all that much of a purpose.

2-1B
09-27-2005, 01:29 PM
Agreed, although I should say my opinion might be tainted by the fact that I HATE Peter Mayhew. :mad:

I like having the other Wookiees, though. :)

CaptainSolo1138
09-27-2005, 02:42 PM
I think Chewie was the most blatent "flash" in the whole damn PT. Why didn't he ask Obers (in the cantina) how his "friend" Yoda was doing? Chewie obviously knew of the Jedi, and as such, probably knew their garb. If Ben was dressed in that manner, wouldn't Chewie recognize it? Oh, wait. That would mean continuity. My bad.

I've been pretty bitter lately about the whole PT vs. OT thing. Maybe I'm just looking too far into it. Or maybe I've read one too many posts by "he-who-is-not-to-be-named".;)

JimJamBonds
09-27-2005, 03:02 PM
I think Chewie was the most blatent "flash" in the whole damn PT. Why didn't he ask Obers (in the cantina) how his "friend" Yoda was doing? Chewie obviously knew of the Jedi, and as such, probably knew their garb. If Ben was dressed in that manner, wouldn't Chewie recognize it? Oh, wait. That would mean continuity. My bad.

I didn't know you were fluent in Wookie there Cap. Maybe Chewie did ask while the camera was on Luke.;)

Markimus
09-27-2005, 03:25 PM
Why didn't he ask Obers (in the cantina) how his "friend" Yoda was doing? Chewie obviously knew of the Jedi, and as such, probably knew their garb. If Ben was dressed in that manner, wouldn't Chewie recognize it? Oh, wait. That would mean continuity. My bad.


For you - it was just 1 movie difference between their meeting... for Chewie it's been 20 years or so... see the difference? Chewie is just trying to survive in a universe ruled by the Empire. He is worried about his own situation (he and Han's). He's probably not going to talk too much about his role in helping someone escape from the empire. That could lead to more trouble for him, something smugglers don't need.

Devo
09-27-2005, 03:43 PM
Chewie's appearance was unashamed pandering. Its clear for us to see: He does nothing. There is no in-universe reason for him to make an appearance. His role could have been filled by any other wookie. It does bugger all for the character since his exploits at the battle of kashhyk (standing in the vicinity of yoda, growling a bit, seeing yoda off) are never again to be referanced in the next few films and his appearance in ROTS does nothing to show how his life is put on the course which we see in the OT. In-universe its pointless. Out-of-universe its clear they were trying to recapture the spirit of when we first see R2-D2 in TPM. You can consider this a good thing, a bad thing or be totally indifferent - not exactly sure where I stand.

CaptainSolo1138
09-27-2005, 04:15 PM
For you - it was just 1 movie difference between their meeting... for Chewie it's been 20 years or so... see the difference? Chewie is just trying to survive in a universe ruled by the Empire. He is worried about his own situation (he and Han's). He's probably not going to talk too much about his role in helping someone escape from the empire. That could lead to more trouble for him, something smugglers don't need.
But because him and Han have "fallen on hard times", or whatever, Chewie completley forgets what has happened in his life?

Also, what does it matter that he helped someone escape the Empire? Isn't that how Ben and Luke come to meet him and Han?

seanmcfripp
09-28-2005, 04:31 PM
You can't compare the aesthtics of the LOTR with Star Wars ! The entire time frame of the LOTR movies is about 1 year. Star Wars takes place over what ? 20-25 years.

Of course things change over the years. It would be insane if it didn't.

I was referring to the timeline that exists over the entire story arc, The Hobbit ---> LOTR trilogy. Bilbo/dwarves/elves/etc. from The Hobbit look like Frodo/dwarves/elves/etc. from LOTR. In other words, it's not particularly important when we are in Middle Earth, as much as it is where, who, how and why. Perhaps it was a bad example, but I think the right people understand what I was getting at.

Rick had a great post earlier, and really I can't add much to it. If you're still confused by any my comments, re-read his contribution for clarity.

JimJamBonds
09-30-2005, 12:17 AM
To be fair lets wait about 15 years and see how the new LOTR trilogy compares to the LOTR trilogy that just came out.

seanmcfripp
09-30-2005, 09:36 AM
To be fair lets wait about 15 years and see how the new LOTR trilogy compares to the LOTR trilogy that just came out.

It had better danged well have robots playing football, or else I shan't be pleased.:mad:

In fact, that goes for all films in general from now on...no football robots = no good movie.

JimJamBonds
09-30-2005, 12:35 PM
In fact, that goes for all films in general from now on...no football robots = no good movie.

So I guess the only good pt movie was AOTC? ;)

2-1B
09-30-2005, 12:53 PM
ABC's Skycam is kind of a robot.

The 'Xir
09-30-2005, 03:34 PM
I think Chewie was the most blatent "flash" in the whole damn PT

Sorry I'm comming in a little late on this debate, but after reading a couple of the later posts, I definitely agree with you on this one! I guess I'm one of those that used to get "moist" :lipsrseal about OT Boba fett(and believe me I thought that he was the shiznit way before all this fanboy cr*p started happening and when I watched it grow out of control I just shook my had 'cause I thought it silly as well, bandwagoneers :rolleyes: ), but I thought Chewies' introduction to the PT was far more pointless than the Fett's. I didn't care that Jango was the clone host, but the details of how they were involved and woven into the story I didn't care for at all, but it still sereved the PT story. I just don't think that it did much to inrich Boba's story in the OT, nor lend to the more EU born hatred of Solo.
As I have stated in other posts, I think the whole Mandalorian race should have been introduced. They could have been loyal to the separatists, tried to subjegate the wookies on Kashyyyk with Boba in Charge of a batallion or something, the Jedi would then rush in (with clones)defeat the Mandalores(as hinted in the ESB novel) then either the separatist droid army could have been the cavarly for the Mandalorians and push back the Jedi and take Kashyyyk, or you really don't have to involve them at all and just have the Clones turn on their masters per Order66 resulting in Chewie fleeing and Yoda going into hiding!
This scenario would explain ALOT! Why Boba has wookie pelts on his belt, and then give good 'cause as to why he is so adamant about chasing down the falcon! With my scenario, he gets to kill two birds with one stone(the stone being Han); cause Chewie harm/pain at the loss of his friend, and get back at the Jedi(skywalker) for killing his dad!

The only thing about Chewies' RotS appearence is that it shows the relationship between Jedi and Wookies and as someone else stated Chewie may recognize Bens robes in ANH and since the Jedi helped the wookies way back when, he is willling to take on Bens "Job" now. Although, if Chewie had gone back to the Tantive IV with Yoda, and met Ben, Bail and company that would make even more sense(lend creedence to Chewies protest to Han when Han just wants to leave with the reward money at Yavin;"I know what I'm doing"). However, now all we can do is assume maybe Yoda got word to the wookies/chewie that only he and Ben remained of the Order, so that maybe their meeting in the cantina wasn't so much the "will of the Force" as it was a possible meeting place! Just fun speculation of course, but once again this is just one of many problems I have with AotC&RotS!

OT and TPM Rock!! I think we need to rebel against George and have him scrap the last two movies and start over again, before the PT actors get too old. He could keep and reuse all the good parts like Ben and Anakins fight.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-30-2005, 07:29 PM
I still don't know if I can trust someone who liked TPM more than AOTC and ROTS. ;)

While we're on introductions and PT cameos, lemme talk about these:
*R2-D2 - I thought his intro was done well, having him as a worker droid that outshines all the other ones. I probably could've done without the "What is that droid's name?" scene, but it's not too bad. I like R2's role in the PT and I'm glad he's in there (it's not like he wouldn't have been, he's George's favorite character).
*Yoda - other than the horrible puppet, I like his PT role. In TPM, he's the clear leader of the Jedi and shows that he's extremely smart, and though he continues that in AOTC and ROTS he also shows off his "great warrior" side we've heard about before.
*Owen and Beru - this one was a little weird. I think Obi-Wan should have met them before ROTS, but I'm glad that Anakin knew of their existence so he could tell the Jedi and they could give Luke to them.
*Jango and Boba - Jango is one of my favorite characters, as is OT Boba. I liked seeing that Boba had a connection with the stormtroopers and Jango's just a plain ol' bad*ss, so there ya go. :D
*Chewbacca - him being in ROTS seemed kind of pointless, especially since Tarfful could have done everything himself. I would've liked to see Chewie at least fight. I liked seeing him, but I wish there was a little more.

2-1B
09-30-2005, 11:44 PM
I never cared for the EU Fett-Solo Feud, I much prefer it this way with Boba just being a guy on the job and tracking the Falcon for financial gain. :)