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View Full Version : Disembodied, proper scale vehicle SECTIONS



Devo
10-01-2005, 08:50 PM
I've suggested this countless times in general 'Hasbro give us vehicles' threads and thought I should air the idea in its own thread.

I'm talking about a collector-based line of authentically detailed, film accurate 'dioramas' consisting of subsections of large vehicles which cannot otherwise be made either to scale or at all. Even if it only gets a short run it will at least provide us with a few 'essentials' before it is cancelled. These sets will provide another context for our figures.

Find a way to do it Hasbro, give it a fancy name and attractive packaging and put it out there. Enough with these subsidiary novelty lines and get focussed on what we want from the signature 3 3/4 line.

Lets have:

Millenium Falcon cockpit

Fully to scale with figures/full standing and sitting room inside for 4-6 figures/accurately detailed chairs and control panels/accurate exterior detail and paintjob/mountable on a clear stand

AT-AT head

Interior to match what we see in the film - 2 driver seats, Veers' station with pull down scope and mini-holo vader on control panel in front, rear room for standing snowtrooper(s), a working rear hatch (which in a full vehicle would lead through the neck) that could theoretically be walked rather than crawled through/ Exterior with accurate detailing and paintjob

AT-ST head

you get the idea (important that these sets would be operable for 3 3/4" men - ie. not cramped unless its film accurate, chairs that facilitate real-life seating positions as opposed to the action figure staple of 'legs straight out in front', standing room, walkways rather than 'crawlways')

Anyone wish to add anything? From the prequels perhaps?

Slicker
10-01-2005, 10:17 PM
I've never heard of this idea before but I'm totally on board with you. This would be awesome to have these. The AT-AT would be the one that I'd want the most right along side the Falcon cockpit.

As for prequel ones you could go with the Radian VII cockpit, Queen's starship cockpit, control room from Federation starship, and maybe the cockpit of the Invisible Hand

stillakid
10-01-2005, 10:42 PM
I've always wanted a diorama of the Falcon's bathroom. Imagine what it would look like after Chewy spent some time on the throne! :ko:

jedi master sal
10-02-2005, 09:21 AM
There's actually alot of Falcon scenes to do. Boarding ramp/smuggling compartments; chess table/Luke's training area; quad laser cannon shaft.

Now while I see that you are going with smaller ships, I'd like to have the larger ship settings, so afford me this opportunity to inject that as part of the discussion.

here's what I'd like to see from the large ship dioramas:

Star Destroyer Bridge (This can double for the Super SD as well) Have this come with Imperial Officers. They can be non-descript rank and file officers OR you can be inventive and make a Commander and Lt. Figure in the grayish outfit as Admiral Ozzel was.

Tantive IV (ANH):
First scene! This is the hallway where the Stormtroopers blast through.
Rebel Commanders choke scene
Leia/R2 recording scene (later doubles as the "stun" scene)
R2/3PO escape hatch scene

Medical Frigate!!! Dang come on Hasbro. This is a scene I've heard MANY a collector ask for over the years. Besides it gives you the chance to make two new figs! lus rerelease R2 and 3PO for this scene.

Mon Cal cruiser briefing room! I mean come on, this would be a great set, we'd need extra (and new) figs to fill it up.

Republic Destroyer Hangar bay (Obi talking to Cody)
Republic Destroyer bridge Yet another reason for people to buy Vader, Emperor, Tarkin. Plus make this set come with 2-4 generic Republic officers!
Tantive IV (ROTS):
Main hallyway (can be used for ANH scenes as well)
Bridge
Conference room (where Yoda tells Obi about Qui-gon)


Okay, now those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Also since I'm in the LARGE ship frame of mind what about a series based on the Death Star??? There's lots to do and can be done for BOTH Death Stars!!

Here's a list to start:
Death Star (ANH)
Hangar Bay (where Falcon docks at)
Hangar Bay control room! Cripes I want this set!
Generic Hallway (this can double for so many scenes that diorama builers could go crazy buying these up. Make another version with a blast door that can open. There's a few scenes where that can be used so it would sell well as well.
Luke/Leia swing to freedom Chasm
Elevator scene
Detention block scene (a better one please rather than that little skimpy one during the POFT2 days.
Leia's Cell
Leia meets Tarkin/Destruction of Alderaan scene!
Obi-wan disables tractor beam scene!!!
Death Star Gunner station scene! with rotating gun!(Now we'd have a place for those gunners we bought way back when...(hint hint, please release a new gunner! SA would be nice)

Death Star (ROTJ)
Emperor's throne room-yes this could be a large set. Guess what, don't assemble it! Assume we can do that for ourselves and you can pack it smaller so it take up less shelf space so retailers would buy into it...We USED to build our own sets. Remember "Some assembly required"??
Vader's arrival/Emepror's arrival scene! (This hangar bay can also double as Vader's Death Scene. Again, this could be HUGE, but you can pack it relatively flat and we'll assemble it!!!

One idea about the Death Star scenes is to have a poll in which have all of the 12 listed above and have people vote one through ten in order of most desired to least. (Yes this leaves 2 not voted for which give Hasbro and "out" for two of teh least desired sets.)

Okay, I'm about to go on overload, so let me stop there and you fellas can fill in the gaps. (of course the poll mentioned above would have to be revised then. Anyway...

-Sal

stillakid
10-02-2005, 10:06 AM
While these might be interesting, I don't think they would sell to the general population very well. Which is why I still advocate the making of full ships that actually look like ships from the outside, but with full to semi full functionality/playability inside. See my sig line for more details. :)

Devo
10-02-2005, 02:35 PM
Wait a minute Stillakid hear me out before you side with Hasbro's usual mindset on these things. Hasbro's typical excuses are fair enough - annoying but reasoned. However I think this idea is as close to a way around it as we could get. The selling point of these sets would be that they are proper scale in relation to the figures and the packaging and/or title of the line would advertise them as such. I'm trying to suggest an idea that Hasbro hasn't considered - I don't think anything they've made for the 3 3/4" line has ever been full scale even when it [I]could[I] have been achieved at not significantly greater cost or at no greater cost than mid-to-large vehicles they have made (the coruscant speeders, the Tantive Escape pod, Vaders meditation chamber come to mind as being smaller than they should/need be). Actually I've noticed I did start a similar thread on this before which was listed below last I checked.

They've already effectively ruled out the likelihood of any more 'full ships' of large size (which obviously couldn't be to scale anyway) so this idea would be a way for us to get relevant and recogniseable parts of those ships with both interiors and exteriors accurate to the film models and sets.


Ideally I'd love to have the cockpits of all ships and vehicles however there are some where there'd be difficulty in having a recogniseable and display-worthy exterior such as that of the TPM Royal starship. As a disembodied piece it'd be awkward for Hasbro to find an effective way to package it and for us to find a way to display it. The 3 sets I suggested would be instantly recogniseable (hey its an AT-AT head!! VS hey its a chrome thing with slit windows).

So as much I too have been wishing for a Star Destroyer bridge it ranges back into playset territory which has already been ruled out by Hasbro. The Star Destroyer is an iconic sci-fi spaceship but you have to see it in full to know what it is - no isolated 'part' will be instantly recogniseable or 'exciting' to a casual buyer unlike the Falcon cockpit or AT-ST head. Building the entire bridge section of a star destroyer, shield generators and all (which at the least is what you'd need for anyone to have a clue what it is externally), is going a bit outside of what I had in mind and outside of what I think Hasbro would be willing to do. Nevertheless those are mouth watering ideas from Jedi Master Sal and Slicker - I want those as much as what I suggested - its just that I think they'd have to fall into the playset category (which Hasbro is averse to).

Another suggestion - Imperial Shuttle cockpit - externally it might not be as attractive as the AT-AT head but it'd be feasible, fans would know what it is.

These sets could also be incorporated into people existing dioramas if they wanted - rather than solitary display pieces.

stillakid
10-02-2005, 05:05 PM
Wait a minute Stillakid hear me out before you side with Hasbro's usual mindset on these things.

I wasn't aware that I was siding with Hasbro...

But in any case, my argument is that having a "diorama" piece is inherently...well, boring...when viewed as a toy. Sure, I suppose it's cool to set up scenes and try to "match" what was in the movie...but then what? So the AT AT head now looks accurate up close and you can squeeze all the guys in there...and then?

Something like the Cantina works because it can be made nearly to scale (sort of) and it actually kinda looks like the thing it's supposed to represent. My Star Destroyer idea below (I couldn't tell if you had actually read the entire concept) incorporates and expands on the playset idea while simultaneously creating a recognizable (and thusly marketable) item that catches the eyes of everyone and not just the die-hard collectors. What kid isn't going to be able to talk their 30-something dad into buying a toy Star Destroyer or Death Star that actually looks like what they are representing? As opposed to the same kid pointing at a $30 box of plastic walls and seats that claims to be the interior of some random Star Wars ship that dad may or may not have ever known the name of.

The Endor 'exterior doors" comes to mind as an example of what you're talking about...pieces of a whole...while not necessarily bad per se, it was kind of limiting in its playablity and required the user to build onto it in order for it to have any meaning. For that matter, the Falcon Turbo Guns have been done, and again, I don't think that they sold very well. Aside from the coolness factor of being able to shoot your sister with the red darts, because it wasn't attached to anything else (ie. a scaled down version of the Falcon), it didn't "grab" the attention of too many outside of die-hard collectors.

I general, I think that they've done a pretty good job lately with reproducing full sized ships given the parameters of size and price-point. The Gunship and the FX X-Wing really worked in my opinion. Sure, it would be cool to have a better Falcon, but I don't see much value in just having the cockpit to sit on a shelf somewhere. Perhaps I'm missing the point of having these. I'm open to hearing more of why you think it is a good idea. :) (not that you have to explain it to the likes of me ;) )

Devo
10-02-2005, 07:21 PM
"siding with" was perhaps a silly choice of words and when I posted today I hadn't read your sig link either. I since have. I of course love your plan for the Death star and Star destroyer but my idea is based on the fact that Hasbro keeps saying that big ships and playsets such as what you're suggesting are off the agenda. So I'm putting an alternative idea out there hoping that it will become one of those 'new things' Hasbro likes to try. Obviously though lets keep the campaign for full ships running.

I too think something should look like what its intended to represent. I was careful in my selections to make sure that the 'parts' of the ships were recogniseable parts and not something like the AT-AT's middle third or the Falcon's left docking hatch. The Millenium Falcon cockpit will only be advertised as exactly that - ergo if you take my smartass logic the 'Millenium Falcon cockpit' will look like the Millenium Falcon cockpit. Something like this will be complimentary to our full Millenium Falcon toy. You ask 'and then what?' - these dioramas are to be ends in themselves, they don't need play value because we already have the downscaled&condensed toys for that*. Actually I'm not sure what you mean when you ask 'and then what'....equally applicable to any toy with play value as far as I'm concerned (it fires missiles....then what?) so it seems kind of moot to me. In fact you reminded me of the film Big with Tom Hanks when the guy keeps saying '...I don't get it' :)

*play value includes things like compatibility with figures which these dioramas would have. But firing missiles and blast off panels aren't what these sets would be about.

Besides I think collectors are deserving of something aimed specifically at them - Hasbro have done it before but with figures - fans choice characters like ellors madak and Ephant Mon. So I think something like this would be great if only as a short run line with only 3-4 entries. Collectors want realism and accuracy as Hasbro knows. They try to get that across with collector-targeted figures so I suggest that failing full scale accurate ships they could try putting out important and recogniseable parts of ships. And some kids might even buy into it. I was a young'un not so long ago and always regretted that the Falcon could only fit one person in the cockpit realistically and that even if there was a working hatch leading into the main hold a figure would have to crawl through it.

You mention the endor bunker and Falcon guns - well in the current climate of no playsets wouldn't we love something like the endor attack set again...but no thats not even what I'm on about. Pieces of a whole yes but once again dramatically scaled down and too kid-friendly. I want proper scale stuff - as I said that would be a primary selling point. Meanwhile the falcon guns were just a barebones framework affair, playsets once again - I'm asking for a lot more detail than that but you'll note that I haven't made a request for an update of these because I think what I did mention lend themselves better to what I'm talking about.

Keywords then for this idea:

Proper scale/film accurate/Displayworthy/recogniseable/complimentary to actual 'toys'

stillakid
10-02-2005, 07:31 PM
scale/film accurate/Displayworthy/recogniseable/complimentary to actual 'toys'


Yes, I see now. Given that concept, I'm not too sure that Hasbro is the proper company to provide such items. Their track record with that kind of "detail" for "collectors" isn't all that good. The only ship that comes to mind with that kind of attention was the updated Vader's TIE Fighter. Perhaps even the Speeder Bikes and one might make an argument for the updated Landspeeder...okay maybe the Snowspeeder too. Okay, so they've done a lot of good ships! :) But only from the outside...their inside track record isn't so hot.

So perhaps a third party "diorama maker" would be more appropriate...something in the vein of Code 3 or Master Replicas, only with the Hasbro toys specifically in mind and with a drastically reduced price point than what those vendors currently rape enjoy sell at.

All it would take would be some enterprising young lad with the sculpting skills and the business acumen to approach Lucasfilm for a license. :thumbsup:

Devo
10-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Well we've had prequel ships with nice enough interiors detailwise - hampered only by their having been downsized to meet certain pricepoints. I love the detail inside Zam wessells speeder. The trouble is its so cramped she has to lie on her back looking out through the sunroof and can't realistically access the controls. I try to think of it as though our figures are real living beings - theres no way Zam would suffer the indignity of even trying to climb into that thing let alone fly it which would be physically impossible. Likewise Anakin's airspeeder - it claims to be able to fit two figures but realistically it can only fit one otherwise they're practically on top of eachother.

Must go, will return to this thread tomorrow.

stillakid
10-02-2005, 10:21 PM
I try to think of it as though our figures are real living beings - theres no way Zam would suffer the indignity of even trying to climb into that thing let alone fly it which would be physically impossible. Likewise Anakin's airspeeder - it claims to be able to fit two figures but realistically it can only fit one otherwise they're practically on top of eachother.



On top of each other, eh? Maybe these things weren't meant for flying...:love:

Devo
10-03-2005, 05:46 PM
Yes, I see now. Given that concept, I'm not too sure that Hasbro is the proper company to provide such items. Their track record with that kind of "detail" for "collectors" isn't all that good.

So perhaps a third party "diorama maker" would be more appropriate...something in the vein of Code 3 or Master Replicas, only with the Hasbro toys specifically in mind and with a drastically reduced price point than what those vendors currently rape enjoy sell at.

All it would take would be some enterprising young lad with the sculpting skills and the business acumen to approach Lucasfilm for a license. :thumbsup:

I know it would certainly be unprecedented for Hasbro but surely its not beyond their capability. I'd be satisfied with them using the usual plastics and paints, I'm not looking for them to incorporate metals or even working lights (which though cool would probably push the price up too far).

Perhaps your hesitation has been that if we were to get something like what I'm suggesting then it better damn well go the full hog with metal parts, lights, moveable joysticks etc in order to justify itself as an 'incomplete' vehicle. Well, thats not really what I'd be asking, I'd accept a middle ground between the high detail of something Master Replicas would do and the sheer crap Hasbro would prefer to do (veering closer to MR of course).

So yes its true what you say Hasbro doesn't do this kind of thing, however I'd like them to start - and just cancel it if it doesn't do well enough to be worth their while. And hey popular lines get cancelled all the time - look at Unleashed - well this could be one of those lines!! :thumbsup:

Dark Marble
10-28-2005, 09:45 AM
Hey! I just say this thread and I think this is a wonderful idea! Not only a big playset for kids so their figures can interact with something, but a very nice detailed display for collectors as well. I don't see why this couldn't be a possibility. I would love a Falcon cockpit or AT-AT playset. And a Star Destroyer Bridge seems like a no brainer. I would love to see Hasbro take a chance with one playset like this. And I don't think a few lights or sounds would kill anything...

Scackmgack
11-25-2005, 11:49 PM
Honestly, I think Sal is on the right track, and to say that Hasbro wouldn't do this because dioramas are boring and not really toys - let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

Collectors support the Star Wars market, not the kiddies.

Peg warmers, I think, are the proof of the pudding. If little kids were getting Star Wars toys, or parents were getting figures for their kids, they'd all come off the pegs. Little children are not especially-discerning about their toys, not enough of them to account for the peg-warming that takes place.

Teens and adults have the money to buy this stuff, and we prop up the market - and we WOULD purchase dioramas for our figures because, I imagine, we don't play with the stuff, we just set it up and look at it.

I've always wanted some Rebel dioramas to put figures and vehicles in. Give me the Mon Cal briefing room with the bridge over it like in RoTJ. Give me a hangar that comes with some technicians to put my F/X X-Wing in.

Someday when I am old and retired, or rich, I can either build my own dioramas or pay other people to make them for me, but I treasure things like the old-school Kenner Death Star playset because I have it filled with the new-school figures and it looks fantastic all set up. I love the cardboard Mos Eisley cantina and Jabba's Palace dioramas because I have all the right figures in there and they look awesome. I have two Jedi Council sets with the backgrounds cut off the boxes and slid into the groove behind the seats so it looks like you're looking out at Coruscant around the seated Jedi, and the Separatist Leader 3-packs from AotC are around the holo-table with pieces cut out of their packages to make a floor and walls...

Having a place to set up the figures is key.

DarkArtist
11-26-2005, 02:32 PM
If these wer done really well, with massive details and in scale to the figures at a resonable price, let's say the Falcon one goies for about $20, I'd be in. :thumbsup:
The idea is a great start to a promising Collecting / Display line, but would have almost no play value.
Parents aren't going to pay high prices for half a ship if they can get the whole deal.

I love the Falcon and AT-AT sets. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :love:

Slicker
11-26-2005, 03:33 PM
Here's a scale diorama supposedly being made by Attikus. (http://afigures.com/g/?mode=view&album=Star+Wars%2FHasbro&pic=newa1.jpg&dispsize=800&start=45) It's pretty large and from what I've read the retail is about $3,000. There's even a Dagobah diorama being made which is itself to scale.

I'm not sure if these are even still being released. I've read mixed reports.

jedi master sal
11-27-2005, 05:11 PM
Here's a scale diorama supposedly being made by Attikus. (http://afigures.com/g/?mode=view&album=Star+Wars%2FHasbro&pic=newa1.jpg&dispsize=800&start=45) It's pretty large and from what I've read the retail is about $3,000. There's even a Dagobah diorama being made which is itself to scale.

I'm not sure if these are even still being released. I've read mixed reports.

That's a very cool set, that I've seen for some time now. But there are several problems with that set.
1) Not everyone collects Die-cast or "Metal" in this case
2) not to scale with the action figures
3) COST!

Hasbro has done affordable playsets in the past and can still do that. Okay so instead of just plain playsets they need to include a figure to help entice us into buiying it. That's all good with me. So a small set that might cost $15 would cost $5 more. That's fine, just please no crappy old figs.(In other words, no POTF2 figs or old sculpts that just don't work anymore.) Much of these playsets can be packages fairly flat, therefore not taking up to much space.
Why is this important? Simple and I'll list why:
1) Smaller package equals less self space which retailers say is at a premium when deciding what items to stock.
2) Small packages also means less cost to produce the actual packaging, ie printing, cardboard costs, etc
3) those who keep thing mint in box may have room for smaller boxes rather than something with a big window box, where half (or more) of the space inside the box is wasted
4) Smaller boxes sell better with parents than larger. (They won't FEEL like they are buying something big and can't afford it.)
5) Less labor costs-if they package these as parts we the consumer have to put together, then they aren't even paying the meager Chinese wages they are right now, thereby saving them money AS WELL as time getting these products to us.
Problem is, Hasbro has gotten away for the most part from the "Some assembly required" days. Hell, I don't care if I have to assemble these sets. In fact I look forward to it.
6) more items can be shipped in a case, thereby saving shipping costs in the long run. Sure there might be a little more weight, but less overall cases would be shipped because they can squeeze more into a case. This means less "Sea" freight-which again translates into savings.

So, all of those reasons really beg the question, why the hell not Hasbro? You can do it and affordably. Sell these for an affordable price that we the consumer WOULD pay for and you won't see them pegwarming shelves.

You've got to think smart though and just not make every scene there is to make. Do the research by coming to collecting boards like these and see what we would buy.

Again, while there may be a percentage of kids that want specific Star Wars items, I think the majority don't really care, so long as they get something, BUT we the collectors, who HAVE the money to send on this stuff DO want specific scenes/dioramas. Heck do a poll and list 20 sets, then make the top 12. One set a month at $15-25 depending on size would be about right on and we could all generally afford it. Knowing that we would actually have something to put our figures IN might keep people collecting Star Wars longer.

Okay, nuff said, let's just see what happens.
-Sal

Slicker
11-27-2005, 07:39 PM
1) Not everyone collects Die-cast or "Metal" in this case
2) not to scale with the action figures
3) COST!Just so you know:

1) The figures themselves are metal but the diorama is resin. Imagine the shipping cost if something this large were metal. :crazed:
2) It is in scale with the 3 3/4 figs just check this link. It's quite amazing!! Link (http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/misc/20050516_picview/pictureviewer.html?imgNum=3&world=collecting)
3) Can't argue about the price. It's expensive.

DarthAngel
12-14-2005, 11:25 PM
Personally I would be all for these, if they made them. The ones that I would really like to see made (even if they had to come in several smaller pieces) would have to be:

1. Star Destroyer Bridge: I could just see it now. A few viewports in the front of this, the famous (or infamous) catwalk with crew pits on each side, and the section where Vader kills Needa.

2. Death Star I and/or II: Control room, elevator area, throne room, hanger bay, the choices are limitless.

3. Jedi Temple: Jedi Archive (with a Jocasta Nu pack in perhaps?), war room, Yoda's quaters, hallway from AOTC and ROTS...again there are so many possiblities.

Lets hope that Hasbeen Hasblow is listening to us.

Devo
12-15-2005, 12:15 PM
I fear its just another wet dream. I'd be more enthusiastic if this thread was now at page 20 but it seems our number is small.

DarthAngel
12-17-2005, 07:21 PM
I fear its just another wet dream. I'd be more enthusiastic if this thread was now at page 20 but it seems our number is small.


It only takes one man to start a revolution. The numbers may be small, but sometimes the best things always start out small. And just because some threads may have a lot of responses, doesn't always mean that things are going in the right direction.

DarkArtist
12-23-2005, 03:24 PM
Personally I would be all for these, if they made them. The ones that I would really like to see made (even if they had to come in several smaller pieces) would have to be:

1. Star Destroyer Bridge: I could just see it now. A few viewports in the front of this, the famous (or infamous) catwalk with crew pits on each side, and the section where Vader kills Needa.

2. Death Star I and/or II: Control room, elevator area, throne room, hanger bay, the choices are limitless.

3. Jedi Temple: Jedi Archive (with a Jocasta Nu pack in perhaps?), war room, Yoda's quaters, hallway from AOTC and ROTS...again there are so many possiblities.

I love these ideas here. I would love to have Death Star playset or a Star Destroyer bridge, my only thing with the star destroyer is we also need a spot for vader's meditation chamber and a large holo-graphic head of Palpatine to re-enact the scene. And yes I am serious about the holo head/ bust

Devo
12-23-2005, 05:46 PM
The new sculpts that Hasbro has been putting out of some core and background characters have been amazing, of a quality of detail that just doesn't need improving anymore in my opinion. I'm particularly fond of Evolutions Darth Vader (the silver piece of string doesn't bother me that much). It would be amazing and a very beautiful thing to get dioramas to match this detail and accuracy. Definitely in addition to what I suggested at the beginning - Falcon cockpit, AT-AT head - I really would like a Star Destroyer Bridge diorama. Imagine how that would look with Evolutions Vader with his arms crossed (which can just-about be done by the way if you hadn't discovered), a Palpy and ROTS Tarkin looking out the viewport as in Revenge of the Sith, or a (new) Piett updating Evolutions Vader on the pursuit of the Falcon in The Empire Strikes Back with various officers and DStroopers manning consoles and on sentry duty. It must be done Hasbro. I was almost tempted to yield some and say 'do this if you can only do one' but.....what about Yoda's house??

Devo
12-30-2005, 05:40 PM
http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/collections/braden/DSC01597.jpg&text=Jim%20Braden's%20Collection

Have a look at Rebelscum and the collectors collections update featuring that of one Jim Braden. He's put together a rather nifty Falcon cockpit diorama from Empire Strikes Back not unlike what I'm asking for from Hasbro.