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JEDIpartner
08-21-2001, 01:39 PM
I know this has come up in passing, but I don't think I have read an answer to this yet. How did the Lars family get their speeder, which was tucked waaaayyyy back in the garage, out onto the surface? I know that speeders are supposed to work on repulsor lifts, but are they strong enough to get them to the surface? Was there a secret garage door? How the heck did the T-16 get out, too?!! It looked like it was jammed way in there!!!

I know I shouldn't ask because I'm gonna get some smart ***** answers, but hey- I can't wait to hear those either!!

El Chuxter
08-21-2001, 02:00 PM
I've honestly never thought of this issue, but everything does seem rather buried in the garage. Which, presumably, is in the same pit as the rest of the homestead. Maybe they tell droids they want to leave and the droids move the other junk?

Jargo
08-21-2001, 02:31 PM
I asked the same question not so long ago in a forum not so far away... SOME MORE ANH QUESTIONS (http://209.197.112.151/thread.html?dom=ss&TID=8&PID=5476)

JEDIpartner
08-21-2001, 03:14 PM
A SMALL FAMILY OF RODENTS...! yuk yuk yuk yuk!!:D

Well... hopefully we will get some answers, eh!

Let's see if anyone else tunrs up for this thread!

Homestead Blueprints anyone??? Sir Steve?

Jargo
08-21-2001, 03:49 PM
I'd love the blueprints for the homestead. I always wanted to make a diorama that included the courtyard with the droid and Aunt Beru while Owen and Luke bought 3-PO and R2 on the ground level where a home made Sandcrawler would stand. Not all of the crawler but the same amount they made for the film in that location. No point making work for yourself is there?


Anyway, back to the thread. I think that they just forgot about the speeder issue when they made the set in the desert. The stagehands who built the set were probably so stoned back in the 70's that they just didn't even think about the issue. Too busy building an 80 foot rust coloured tank like thing and making a concrete igloo next to a massive hole in the ground to notice.
Plus the fact that George never communicated anything to anyone. So no-one really knew what he wanted and were mostly flying in the dark on the original movie.

But I would like to see the homestead explored in an incredible cross sections book at some time. Like they did with Anakins home in the 'Inside the worlds of star wars' book.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-21-2001, 04:31 PM
This might sound cheesy, but maybe there is a back door. There may be a sloping driveway-type thing that goes down to the back of the garage, so items can be removed/put in.

Or the speeder and T-16 were there because Luke scrreamed about Greedo shooting first after the Ewoks sang a different song. :p

Jargo
08-21-2001, 09:28 PM
I suppose the point of this thread is that there are no indications anywhere in the movie or the still pictures or publicity pictures of there being a way out. It sure looks like the T-16 should be sitting in the courtyard because of the way the light hits it. But the courtyard yields no glimpse of the rather large high winged ship from the garage. The hole in the ground only has steps leading to the upper igloo like doorway that Owen and Luke emerge from. There is no garage door. There is no inside from the outside perspective. In other words the whole darn thing don't tally. Absolutely no continuity whatsoever! Shoddy design work! This is something that should be asked to the jedi council at the official site I feel......

JediTricks
08-22-2001, 10:38 AM
I think the landspeeder is sitting next to the main garage door, even though it seems like the BACK of the garage from our perspective.

As for Luke's T-16, I think there's a wall with an opening across a small bridge that leads to the garage, the garage itself doesn't open directly to the courtyard. The T-16 is in a specially-built channel which is like a cave that opens out behind the garage I believe.

good shot jansen
08-22-2001, 10:43 AM
the garage has a "tech dome" roof which opens and closes to allow the skyhopper to repulser lift out. i can't remenber if there's a scene in which luke and c3po get into the lanspeeder and then either the tech dome opens or if the garage door is opened. i'll have to check either the screen play, or listen to it again. i'll post if there is any light shed regarding the speeder.

Jargo
08-22-2001, 04:31 PM
Hmmm, I know the EU probably has an answer for the question but Iwanted to know why the film doesn't. The dome you see on film is the roof of the part of the garage that Luke uses to clean the droids. It's far too small to be a doorway or exit. Going by what we see in the movie, there should be a massive hole in the ground between the entrance to the homestead and the garage roof. But there isn't....... Not a glimpse of a hole big wenough to take a T-16 and a twenty foot walkway. All the reference material I've ever seen - and I've looked far and wide for this - has been without a T-16 landing pit. I'm definately going to ask the jedi council over at SW.com about this. :confused:

bigbarada
08-22-2001, 10:16 PM
I'm sorry but I have to ask: Does it REALLY matter?

JediTricks
08-23-2001, 01:34 AM
It looks like there is a gap in the land during the "twin sunset" scene.

GNT
08-23-2001, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I'm sorry but I have to ask: Does it REALLY matter?

Got to agree here :)


Although as someone said there probably is a back door or something? Either that or its broken down and will not work!

evenflow
08-23-2001, 08:50 AM
Interesting question. And no, it doesn't really matter. But I like the back door idea.

JEDIpartner
08-23-2001, 09:02 AM
Hey you can't fault a guy for being curious, eh?

Bel-Cam Jos
08-23-2001, 11:05 AM
Remember how depressed Luke was? And knowing he's been reckless with his flying? Well, Uncle Owen had to teach him a lesson so he sealed up his T-16 in a garage with no doors! That way, Luke could always be aware of how his mistakes are bad. Or, Ben told his brother Owen to make Luke use his latent Force abilities by trapping the ships/speeders in such a place.

bigbarada
08-23-2001, 12:18 PM
Okay, I've thought about it and here's my theory. Since the design of the Skyhopper was never actually seen in the movie, except in toy form (and we're never actually told that it is a Skyhopper) then maybe ol'George let the matte painting slide since no one in the audience was to supposed to know that's what was in the doorway, it could've been a hot water heater for all we knew. It wasn't until the Skyhopper model was seen close-up that people recognized the shape.

Keep in mind back in 1976 ol'George was spending most of his time fighting with the studio to keep them from pulling the plug. So you're going to tell me a minor detail like that should have been utmost in his mind?

Jargo
08-23-2001, 07:28 PM
Yes. :)

And it does matter. To me. And I want to know.... NOW!

JediTricks
08-24-2001, 11:37 AM
It matters to me, I'm curious about such things.

Barada, it's not a matte painting, it's an actual set piece, and it clearly corresponds to the model that Luke's playing with in shape and designs.

bigbarada
08-24-2001, 08:02 PM
When I first watched the movie I never even noticed the Skyhopper in the background. In fact I thought it was a SE addition!:o I've always just paid more attention to the characters acting out the scenes.

The only logical explanation I can come up with, since you MUST have one, is that maybe the main doors have been buried by a recent sandstorm. In which case they'd have to be built flat with the ground. Crappy explanation but it's all I can come up with right now. Give me a couple of days to think it over.

Jargo
08-24-2001, 09:10 PM
Yeeeees, but you're still missing the point by a couple of degrees. recalibrate the thinktank node adjuster and try a different trajectory...:)

I'm trying to get to the bottom of the production design issue not the story issue. I don't really care why the characters in the film didn't have a garage door. I want to know why the production crew didn't put one there and made the biggest mess up in continuity that I've seen in star wars (apart from the lack of the falcon's radar dish in docking bay 94 and the Wampa changing size shape and colour.) that has puzzled me for many a year and recently lead me to have sleepless nights trying to work out the exact layout of the homestead and cantina. The Insides of buildings in star wars do not corespond to the outsides. Buildings disappear from shot to shot, buildings morph mid scene.

I gave up watching the actors long ago. I only watch star wars for the design and the background stuff. I know too much about how the films were made to be able to view them as dramas anymore. I'm like a mad scientist now, pulling the wings off the scenes to see if they can still fly with all the details stripped off.....


MMMMMMWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :)

Oh yeah - I did submit the question to the starwars.com jedi
council. Have to wait and see if Gavin Bocquet responds..... :p

bigbarada
08-24-2001, 09:57 PM
I don't think Lucas thinks things through that thoroughly. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

The only reasonable analogy I can give is when I'm drawing a picture, composition comes first then logic. If something is drawn correctly but doesn't "look right" then it has to be changed. Or is there is a confliction or "competing point" then reality will sometimes have to be stretched a little. Just because something is accurate doesn't necessarily mean it looks good. As far as nit-picky details, I try to make everything look like it has a purpose and a reason for being. If by some oversight I missed a detail, I might correct it, I might not depending how much interest I still have in the drawing.

While this might not explain very well why stuff like a garage door isn't built into the set or why building interiors don't match exteriors, it's the best I can do given my own personal experience.

GNT
08-24-2001, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by JEDIpartnr
How did the Lars household get the speeders out?

Luke used the force. doors ;)

stillakid
08-25-2001, 12:21 AM
The exterior set was in Tunisia and the interior was in England. That's the most accurate answer you're going to get.

QLD
08-25-2001, 07:29 AM
OK everyone!

As important as the original question might seem, I think there is a bigger one that deserves ponderance. And that is....



















WHO LET THE SPEEDERS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

JediTricks
08-25-2001, 11:44 AM
Ok, I cannot find this file right now, but it's a pic of the Lars family landspeeder, and behind it is the wall of the set, and at the joint of the wall is a SEAM!!! So this wall, which is at the back of the landspeeder, COULD be the danged garage door!

As for the T-16, there's no vantage where we see that there ISN'T a hole in the ground on the back side of the garage (where the aforementioned garage door would be), but assuming they don't have one, there's still a VERY simple explanation... the wings pivot. Yes, the wings could pivot straight down to fit in between the courtyard wall and the garage wall into it's gap area. When taking off, Luke flies it straight up using the repulsorlift engine till it's cleared the garage and courtyard walls, then puts the wings into "flight" configuration and takes off. Now why can't that happen, huh? Huh?!? ;)

bigbarada
08-25-2001, 01:21 PM
Actually, I think it all falls under GL's "the audience will never notice" philosophy. A belief system he applied to every movie.

Another example of this, and one that has bothered me to this day (especially since they never fixed it in the SE) was Darth Vader's head passing through the bottom of the shuttle when he disembarks on Endor.

Or the TIE fighters that seem to fly right through the Falcon in the end battle.

Obi-Don
08-25-2001, 01:37 PM
I would go with the fly it out method and as for the speeders,I would have to say may a ramp or a lift to get them out and when they are not need fit out the way somewhere[Over the rainbow...]

Jargo
08-25-2001, 08:03 PM
It still doesn't fly with me. I agree with BigBarada about Lucas and his 'audience will never notice' theory. But .........

Jargo
08-25-2001, 08:32 PM
Just discovered that you can't post a new image when you've deleted the one that was there before. So here's the image I was trying to upload... Aint brilliant but it shows how bad the design was to completely miss the actual 'driveway' that the vehicle is parked on and only show the garage roof and the front porch of the house.
I have a vague notion that we are expected to believe that the T-16 is sitting in the main courtyard just out of view. But plainly the courtyard is too small for a vehicle of that size to sit un-noticed in.
What was the production designer on ANH called, John Barry? Something like that.I don't remember his name right now but surely he must have noticed that the ship wasn't in the tunisian set? So why would they have it in the studio set?
I know I'm being anal about this, but I want to get to the bottom of it so I can get some sleep at night.

bigbarada
08-25-2001, 08:51 PM
Well, I really have nothing to say other than it's a huge continuity error that shouldn't have been overlooked.

Do you think GL should fix it SE style, either remove the Skyhopper from the inside or add it to the outside? Or should he make a formal public apology and hand out free passes to Ep2?;)

GL should fire that John Barry guy, he should never be aloud to work on a Star Wars movie again!!!:mad: Oh, wait......

GNT
08-26-2001, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Do you think GL should fix it SE style, either remove the Skyhopper from the inside or add it to the outside? Or should he make a formal public apology and hand out free passes to Ep2?;)


I don't think that will happen :( But I do think some people are overeacting about this!

JediTricks
08-26-2001, 11:10 AM
I'm telling you, it flies straight UP!

As for the location, the courtyard is an open area, yet your image points to the area between the garage and a covered pit, so obviously that cannot be where the courtyard is. In fact, there's NOWHERE here it could be unless the courtyard is directly behind the garage out of view since there's no wall as high as the doorway from the courtyard to the garage. Chalk this one up to the incredible set differences in ANH like the Falcon being incredibly smaller on the outside than inside.

The first one of those "the audience will never notice" things that comes to my mind in the CT is when, during the ROTJ space battle, a bunch of TIEs appear out of nowhere when the Falcon dives into the swarm. It's not even subtle, they just pop in!

Jargo
08-26-2001, 06:57 PM
I agree on the falcon thing. I was watching ESB the other day and noticed that when Lando nips up to grab Luke as he drops from the weather vane, He passes through like three floors to get to the outside of the hull. How big is the ship? Kirschner must have been on drugs or something when they filmed that one!

Back to the pit... My theory about the position of the pit is because of how close it is to the roof of the garage on the inside. It's really just a couple of feet away. The walkway that accesses the garage is leading to the subterranean rooms between the pit and the main courtyard. Thus there should be a pit behind the entance igloo on the surface that is biger than the width of the entrance igloo, owing to the size of the T-16 and the length of that walkway.

I'm guessing that the pit would be round like the courtyard but it could be long and rectangular with a sloping floor for the speeders to glide up and down.

The speeders can only float a certain distance from the ground, they can't fly like a pod can and I doubt that vertical ascension is a possibility. So they must have a driveway. Only it isn't there.

Sorry to keep bleating on, but I need to get it sorted in my mind by talking it through with you guys.

bigbarada
08-26-2001, 08:25 PM
trrryyyyyinnnggggg.......toooooooo
.........ccaaaaaarre........HHHHHRRRRRRNNNNNGGGGGG GNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope still don't care. Sorry.

In all seriousness, I think Irvin Kershner understood what made Star Wars so successful and I've said this before: It's a cartoon! The ships and backdrops only exist to further the story, we're not supposed to worry about how big the Millenium Falcon is inside in relation to it's outside. When characters die they no longer have a purpose in the story thus they effectively disappear. None of this, or any Star Wars movie is meant to be taken seriously at all. It's just for fun. Scientifically Star Wars is nonsense, that's why it's so different from Star Trek. I remember reading the novel to ANH and was slightly disappointed when the author tried to explain the scientific principles behind replusorlift technology. I don't want any of this stuff explained, that's the fun of it all, not knowing.
Personally I don't see the point of books like Incredible cross-sections, as their only purpose is to extinguish the flame of mystery and wonder in Star Wars. Thus extinguishing the fun of it all.
So, if you can, don't worry about it, because the truth is most definitely NOT out there.

Jargo
08-26-2001, 08:46 PM
Without wishing to raise a ray gun and start a fight...


Personally I don't see the point of books like Incredible cross-sections, as their only purpose is to extinguish the flame of mystery and wonder in Star Wars. Thus extinguishing the fun of it all

So by that token, all these threads where we explore the universe of star wars is bad? Are we all extinguishing the flame of mystery? I thought the purpose of star wars discussion was to get to the bottom of the mystery and explore further the worlds that Lucas gave us. Are you now saying that all discussions are pointless and should be ceased? Should all these threads be full of people saying things like "I like star wars...it's great.......yeah... good stuff..... um....... did I say I liked star wars....? How 'bout you?" 'cause that would be no fun at all.

Maybe you don't care about the fact that there's no inside on the outside of the homestead but I do and I want a discussion about it. If you don't care then don't enter the conversation. Simple.

Jt and I do seem to care, though JT not as much as me :) You've made your views known so leave me to ponder alone if you have to, just don't tell me that my questions aren't as valid as some of the vapid threads around here. :(

bigbarada
08-26-2001, 09:12 PM
I didn't wish to offend, and if I made you angry that was not my intention and I apologize.

I actually have no problem sitting here and discussing things that seem trivial. I just don't think bashing the people responsible for these films is warranted. I don't think Irvin Kershner was on drugs when he made ESB, he was just more worried about getting good performances and making a fun, interesting movie. I've mentioned GL's "the audience will never notice theory" and for the most part it's true. Around 90% of the audience is too wrapped up in the story to care about set design and scene to scene continuity.

You're posing a question that really has no answer other than inconsistent set design. There's no way around it. I think GL just figured no one would make the connection between the model Luke was playing with and the shape in the background.

As for my comments about published works, I for one am kind of against a 'set universe.' Back in the old days the Star Wars galaxy was what the fans made of it, not what some book publisher told us it was. EU has gone way too far in trying to explain ever little detail. Details that are more fun worked out amongst fans in forums like this.

My post was not meant as a personal attack against you. Again I apologize.

stillakid
08-26-2001, 09:22 PM
A while back, I remember looking at somebody's website which had an actual scientific study of the gravity constants on all the planets in the Star Wars Universe. They used all sorts of equations measuring, for instance, the time it took for objects to fall on Dagobah when Luke lost his concentration. The end result was that every planet, get this, had the same exact gravity as Earth! It was interesting and funny without being overly critical. Unfortunately I never printed it out or kept the site name. Anybody have it or the link?

JediTricks
08-27-2001, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by EMPEROR JARGO
The speeders can only float a certain distance from the ground, they can't fly like a pod can and I doubt that vertical ascension is a possibility. So they must have a driveway. Only it isn't there.I'm only referring to the T-16 Skyhopper flying straight up, not the Lars' family landspeeder or Luke's speeder. I still contend that there's a garage door that swings up, or slides out, or even possibly down to let the landspeeders out. We see a sizable gap at the back wall in the shots where 3PO is hiding (and it's MUCH more obvious in promo shots taken on that set).

As for caring about this little stuff, I care, but only up to a point where it either hurts the film or is easily chalked up to "moviemaking magic". I mean, I really DON'T care that we never see where Maul got his sith speeder from, but if an X-wing shoots a proton torpedo in the film and it's a plot point, then they better explain or show where that danged torpedo came from!

Barada, you can take or ignore as much of that sciency "trek" stuff as you want from SW, but Lucas obviously cared enough to write some of it in, and these books are the culminations of MANY fans asking for explanation and coming up with their own crazy stuff all the time. Lucas is just there to set the record straight while making a buck.

Ultimately, if you get involved enough in the SW universe to look this closely at this stuff, you can spend the rest of your lives hashing it since it's only opinion, or you can get the Lucasfilm-approved explanations. Even then, if I see something I don't like (such as "midi-chlorians", or "midi-chlorians conceiving Anakin", or "Anakin building C-3PO") I will simply overwrite my memory of those events to either totally disappear OR even better, to show how the point of view we saw that stated that only had a partial slant, and there's more to the story (such as "midis are the result of the Force, not a communication device", or "Qui-Gon is the father, he was obsessed with fulfilling the prophecy so badly that he knocked Shmi up in secret", or "Anakin rebuilt 3PO from parts he found").

bigbarada
08-27-2001, 07:41 PM
I just made an amazing find on the net, it appears to be a shot from the new Super-Duper Snazzy Edition of Episode IV: A New Hope. I guess GL was reading our minds and decided to fix this scene.

Check this out:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D(this is a joke)

El Chuxter
08-27-2001, 09:28 PM
LOL, bigbarada. :D

Jargo
08-28-2001, 03:09 PM
:rolleyes:

JEDIpartner
09-04-2001, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
A while back, I remember looking at somebody's website which had an actual scientific study of the gravity constants on all the planets in the Star Wars Universe. They used all sorts of equations measuring, for instance, the time it took for objects to fall on Dagobah when Luke lost his concentration. The end result was that every planet, get this, had the same exact gravity as Earth! It was interesting and funny without being overly critical. Unfortunately I never printed it out or kept the site name. Anybody have it or the link?

I'm not sure if you were looking at the same thing I was looking at, but <theforce.net> had a section where people were sending in stuff about the decimation of the forest moon of Endor when the DS2 blew up and stuff like that. I thought it was so hilarious that someone actually took so much time in "calculating" and figuring stuff like that.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

This is the web address. Have a blast kiddies!

Nice PIC there Big Barada... I got healthy chuckle outta that this morning!

JediCole
09-20-2001, 12:33 PM
Being a self-styled King of Justification, I had to let this debate run around in my head for a while before I could formulate a solid opinion. After much thought I abandoned my original thought that perhaps the garage is behind the part of the ground level portion of the homestead that we see (in other words, the garage is roughly where the camera crew that filmed the scene was standing). But I determined that there were probably published layouts, maps, or other materials that would suggest otherwise. Then it occured to me. Think of fighter planes (especially WWII era) on aircraft carriers.
Many aircraft are designed with removable wings for ease of bulk storage. It is not out of the question that the wings and fin of the T-16 are removeable. There is ample evidence of repulsorlift technology, so a small device to aid in the replacement of wing parts is not so outrageous. This way the entire vehicle could be stored in a rather low-roofed garage without having to poke the fin out of the ground.
In the words of Yoda, "There is another...", possibility that is. The Skyhopper we see in the background may not be Luke's active one. Think of Luke as a kind of extension of Lucas himself (as Mark Hamill reportedly did when reading for the part). If you look at American Grafitti you can extrapolate the Skyhopper as a kind of Tatooine "hotrod", and any good hotrodder would have a junker on hand to scavenge for parts. It is possible that the T-16 we see is just the junked spare that Luke managed to get to before the local Jawas did.

Jargo
09-20-2001, 08:48 PM
It still doesn't answer the question about where the flipping heck the big hole in the ground is. If there's no hole, how did they get the skyhopper heap of scrap there? Why is there daylight shining down with no opening to the outside? All your theories are excellent but they just don't answer the question like the theory that the whole crew were so stoned they just plain missed it out of the design don't want to admit to such a big mistake for fear of looking foolish.
Close - but no cigar. :)

Jargo
03-06-2002, 02:08 PM
just to drag this up once more and maybe allow some fresg input to help out here, I drew this poxy plan of the homestead showing roughly where i think the pit for the T-16 should be. clearly there is no such pit on any photos or film stills or designs anywhere. it's just a glaring oversight IMO and I'd like to hear what LFL have to say about it. I've asked the jedi council the same question put various ways several times and never been answered. they just don't want to tell. I think it's a conspiracy.... :crazed: honestly i've asked them about ten times and they just keep ignoring my excellently phrased questions. I'm gutted frankly. have you seen some of the dumb questions that are asked over at SW.com? I think they should be made to work out what was going on in the designs and try to clarify it. After all there's still no garage pit in episode two judging by the pictures I've seem so far. An opportunity to fix a continuity error has passed them by.........