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View Full Version : Why don't we think of Dooku as "Tyranus"?



JediTricks
12-15-2005, 02:09 PM
Here's one that just popped up in my head, why is it that after AOTC, we basically pushed aside the concept of Christopher Lee's character being called "Darth Tyranus"? Is it only because the name is mentioned sparingly in AOTC itself? Some products before the movie came out had the Tyranus name on them, but I notice that afterwards very few did, and the name doesn't appear in ROTS at all. Everybody calls him "Count Dooku", which is fine but it seems a little odd that his other name got sorta abandoned.

JON9000
12-15-2005, 02:18 PM
My guess is confusion. Actually, I don't really care for the name "Dooku". It just isn't very evil sounding. Sounds more like something along the lines of a skidmark. "I think Count Skidmark is behind it!" :bandit:

decadentdave
12-15-2005, 02:18 PM
Because Lucas had his kid come up with that stupid name.

Kidhuman
12-15-2005, 02:25 PM
I always thought Tyranus was a dumb name, Dooku is no better either. They could have called him Darth Crayon for all I cared. They didnt use his character enough and killed him way too quickly in ROTS IMO.

JediTricks
12-15-2005, 02:29 PM
I don't like the name "Dooku" either, but it's from the japanese word for "poison" I believe so it does have some reason to be there. Lucas' kid came up with "Gungan".

Dooku doesn't sound that good, I'll agree, which makes it all the more odd that we think of him that way instead of as "Darth Tyranus" which sounds better to me anyway.

Slicker
12-15-2005, 02:37 PM
How often do you think of Palpatine as Sidious? It's kinda in the same boat as Dooku/Tyranus. When I see a picture of Palps I don't think "Sidious", Lucas didn't really push that name on us just like he didn't push the Tyranus name on us. Heck, one of the only times it's mentioned is when Jango says it on Kamino, IIRC.

decadentdave
12-15-2005, 02:38 PM
Well it sounds like something his kid would name. "Hey Jett, I need a name for a Sith Lord." "How about Dooku?" "Yeah, that works. It's also the Japanese word for poison. Thanks, son!"

I thought Lucas was the word-smith but I think he got lazy on the Prequels with some of the names he's pulled out of his crack. Count Iblis or even Count Chocula sounds better than Dooku. Sounds like a tropical bird.

JediTricks
12-15-2005, 03:14 PM
How often do you think of Palpatine as Sidious? It's kinda in the same boat as Dooku/Tyranus. About 20 to 30% of the time, actually, though I'm almost exclusively referring to the prequels character when I think or say it. Then again, they did use "Sidious" in the prequels more than they did Tyranus, the Trade Fed guys address him that way twice in TPM and Dooku makes a remark about Sidious in AOTC (there may be more, I just don't remember that clearly) but they stand out more clearly than the 2 "Tyranus" mentions. Maybe it's because we hear "Lord Sidious" said about him and then directly when addressing him to his holo-face while the first mention of Tyranus is mysterious and the second is at the end of the movie.


Heck, one of the only times it's mentioned is when Jango says it on Kamino, IIRC.Sidious addresses him as Lord Tyranus at the end of the picture when they meet on Coruscant. (BTW, "sidious" flowed from my fingers naturally, though I was thinking about it more, but addressing the character as Tyranus was so unnatural that I didn't end up writing it, I changed it to "when they meet" instead of "when Tyranus/Dooku lands".)



Well it sounds like something his kid would name. "Hey Jett, I need a name for a Sith Lord." "How about Dooku?" "Yeah, that works. It's also the Japanese word for poison. Thanks, son!"

I thought Lucas was the word-smith but I think he got lazy on the Prequels with some of the names he's pulled out of his crack. Count Iblis or even Count Chocula sounds better than Dooku. Sounds like a tropical bird.I totally see your point, I remember when TPM names first got released, "Jar Jar", "Padme", "Amidala", "Naboo", and "Shmi" all bugged the hell out of me (and they still do), "Dooku" was another that definitely didn't do it for me when AOTC was released.


BTW Dave, I dunno if you did this intentionally or not because of this discussion, but on another prequel thread, you just wrote "So really, Sidious and Dooku may have been playing both sides to seize control..." and I thought it was interesting enough to point out, since I see myself and other folks do the same thing which is what prompted this thread in the first place. :D

decadentdave
12-15-2005, 07:20 PM
BTW Dave, I dunno if you did this intentionally or not because of this discussion, but on another prequel thread, you just wrote "So really, Sidious and Dooku may have been playing both sides to seize control..." and I thought it was interesting enough to point out, since I see myself and other folks do the same thing which is what prompted this thread in the first place. :D

Brings up another debate about the name Tyrannus. In the film, Sidious pronnounces his name Lord Ty-ran-us as in Tyrannasaurus Rex. Before I saw the film, I referred to him as Tear-a-nis as in the word Tyranny. I rather prefer my original pronunciation of his name as a derivative of that word as being something of a tyrranical Sith.

Anyway, his name is what it is. We can't change it so we have to take it for what it is. As dumb as it sounds, Dooku has just become an accepted part of the Star Wars lexicon.

Sentinel18725
12-15-2005, 08:20 PM
I never liked the names of the Sith: Maul, Sidious, Tyranus. Way to obvious in there recognition of damage and bad things. Which also brings me to another question: Does anyone know Maul's name before being dubbed Darth Maul?

Rocketboy
12-15-2005, 11:39 PM
Everybody calls him "Count Dooku", which is fine but it seems a little odd that his other name got sorta abandoned.I think part of it has to do with the fact that it's just not really used much in the movies. Also, for an in-movie explanation, it appears that the Jedi (or most people really) don't know the name Darth Tyrannus. At the end of AOTC, the Jedi only know that Dooku has gone to the dark side. They don't know that he is a Sith until the beginning of ROTS, which happens to be right before he dies, which means there really isn't an opportunity to use the name Tyrannus.

Does anyone know Maul's name before being dubbed Darth Maul?Action Figure.

decadentdave
12-15-2005, 11:39 PM
If you think about it, most of the names of characters are pretty awkward. The name Skywalker for example describes a young boy with big dreams of leaving his home planet. If someone in the real world had a name like Skywalker he would have been teased endlessly in grade school. Han Solo describes a self-centered guy who prefers to go it alone. There are other names too like Grievous who inflicts grievous harm and of course Vader which is Dutch for father are all fairly obvious in their meanings. We could go through the whole pantheon of characters and dissect the awkwardness of their names but that is why Star Wars is fantastical saga set in another fictional universe.

X13VADER
12-16-2005, 07:25 AM
It Is All A Point Of View. You Are Basicly Seeing The Movie From The Republic Standpoint. And Also With The Ot. It Is From The Rebel Point Of View. As With All History The Victors Get To Write It From Their Point Of View.

Captain Spoon
12-16-2005, 07:55 AM
I think the reason that he mostly goes by the name Dooku is because no one else knows any better. Darth whatever indicates you are a full blown Sith lord. Everyone know Dooku was an ex-Jedi, who might of dabbled in the dark side but no one expected him to actualy be a dark lord of the Sith. The only reason Jango knew him as Tyranus is because he could give 2 fly'n **** about the force, he just wanted to get paid.

CaptainSolo1138
12-16-2005, 08:03 AM
Does anyone know Maul's name before being dubbed Darth Maul?Darth Nibble?:D

JimJamBonds
12-16-2005, 11:46 AM
Its already been said but I think the reason is because Dooku is generally called "Dooku." Simple as that, how many people think of the guy fighting Obi Wan as Darth Vader and how many think of him as Anakin? Not to get into the issue of character development, performance etc. but it does not seem the same without the black armor thus I generally call him Anakin.

darthvyn
12-16-2005, 12:45 PM
yeah, seems to me that we use the names in proportion to how they're used throughout the saga - like you said, JT, we think about palpatine about 70-80% of the time, and sidious about 20-30%. that's probably a pretty good cross-section of how much the two names are used.

that said, the name darth tyrannus is used twice in AOtC, and he's mostly addressed or mentioned as count dooku. this is, however, out of necessity - he has to go by his "reputable" name to make the separatists rally to his side. if he was broadcasting his "sithiness" he probably wouldn't get very much assistance. same goes for palpatine - they've both covered up their sith names and use their "reputable" monickers that they've built up.

DarkArtist
12-16-2005, 02:35 PM
I think that Tryanus got phased out from due to it not being said that often, In fact it was only mentioned twice. Most of the time the character is refered to as Count Dooku, so the name change wouldn't have worked since all through AOTC, and the Clone Wars and various other media, games, books the name has always been Dooku. True the names could have been better thought of but if you think about it, Leia, Han, Tatoonie, etc all seemed like wierd names when the original trilogy first came out.

Also I thought Lucas' son came up with the name Jar Jar Binks ????

Kidhuman
12-16-2005, 02:53 PM
I thought it was dumb how the figure was Dooku and the deluxe was Tyranus. I hated that fact and hated the names too.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-16-2005, 05:37 PM
I thought it was dumb how the figure was Dooku and the deluxe was Tyranus. I hated that fact and hated the names too.
That's just another of Hasbro's weird inaccuracies that are because of the long lead times for the figures.

And, did Darth Maul even have a true name? I thought that Sidious raised him secretly since he was an infant, while he was still Plagueis's apprentice. Then he killed Plagueis, became the master, and took Maul for his own apprentice. Then, when that went so well, he just went to Dooku, decided to call him Tyranus once or twice, and have people debate about it on the internet. :D

JediTricks
12-16-2005, 05:40 PM
Brings up another debate about the name Tyrannus. In the film, Sidious pronnounces his name Lord Ty-ran-us as in Tyrannasaurus Rex. Before I saw the film, I referred to him as Tear-a-nis as in the word Tyranny. I rather prefer my original pronunciation of his name as a derivative of that word as being something of a tyrranical Sith.Well, it's spelled "Tyranus" rather than "Tyrannus" so that does open it up to alternate pronunciations, and since so few have actually said it aloud in the movies, it could just be one of those names that is open to interpretation like "Han" Solo vs "Hahn" Solo (we've heard it both ways in the OT).


Anyway, his name is what it is. We can't change it so we have to take it for what it is. As dumb as it sounds, Dooku has just become an accepted part of the Star Wars lexicon.True, but why then don't we go with his other name, since it too is what it is?



Which also brings me to another question: Does anyone know Maul's name before being dubbed Darth Maul?It's not known, the EU I believe says Maul was taken at a very young age by Sidious, and chose to abandon all traces of his people when he took on the tattoos.



I think part of it has to do with the fact that it's just not really used much in the movies. Also, for an in-movie explanation, it appears that the Jedi (or most people really) don't know the name Darth Tyrannus. At the end of AOTC, the Jedi only know that Dooku has gone to the dark side. They don't know that he is a Sith until the beginning of ROTS, which happens to be right before he dies, which means there really isn't an opportunity to use the name Tyrannus.They could suspect it though, they did hear the name "Tyranus" from Jango when speaking about his employer and he then took off and led them to Dooku and they saw him in league with the Serreno Count. I think the notion of whether he's just with the Dark Side or a Sith seems kinda splitting hairs, he battles Yoda at the end of AOTC with Sith powers, that's good enough for me to believe they know he's a Sith.



If you think about it, most of the names of characters are pretty awkward. The name Skywalker for example describes a young boy with big dreams of leaving his home planet. If someone in the real world had a name like Skywalker he would have been teased endlessly in grade school. Han Solo describes a self-centered guy who prefers to go it alone. There are other names too like Grievous who inflicts grievous harm and of course Vader which is Dutch for father are all fairly obvious in their meanings. We could go through the whole pantheon of characters and dissect the awkwardness of their names but that is why Star Wars is fantastical saga set in another fictional universe.None of those sound awkward or silly to me, the flow pretty nicely, unlike Padme, Amidala, Shmi, Naboo, Jar Jar, names like that. Watto is one that sorta works though, it's not too powerful so it doesn't carry undue weight for the character.



I think the reason that he mostly goes by the name Dooku is because no one else knows any better.I'm not talking about in the movies, I'm talking about us, the audience and fans, the way WE think of and refer to the character.



Its already been said but I think the reason is because Dooku is generally called "Dooku." Simple as that, how many people think of the guy fighting Obi Wan as Darth Vader and how many think of him as Anakin? Not to get into the issue of character development, performance etc. but it does not seem the same without the black armor thus I generally call him Anakin.The armor is what makes it not as simple as the Vader/Anakin thing though, Dooku and Tyranus are identical characters no matter how we see them, Vader is the guy in the black full-body armored suit. I guess maybe that's why some folks still use "Sidious" when talking about Palpatine in the prequels, because Darth Sidious wore the hooded cloak and Palps didn't (until near the end of ROTS anyway).



Also I thought Lucas' son came up with the name Jar Jar Binks ????No, there was confusion because of how McCallum first explained it back in the day, McCallum said Lucas' then-young son Jett came up with the name for the character, but what McCallum actually meant was that Jett came up with the SPECIES name for the character ("Gungan", a nonsense word the young boy occasionally used, I think he used it about an actual thing too, possible some large machinery or something), which they clarified in later statements.


True the names could have been better thought of but if you think about it, Leia, Han, Tatoonie, etc all seemed like wierd names when the original trilogy first came out.Like "Luke", "Leia" is a real name, and "Han" is a Japanese name, and "Tatooine" is the area in Tunisia where they filmed part of the movie (spelled with a "u"), and none of them sounded that weird to me. Same with "Lando Calrissian" and other OT names, while "Greedo" and "Jabba" sounded a little weird but not as weird as some of the PT names - some of which sound like baby talk, and some just sound silly to me.



I thought it was dumb how the figure was Dooku and the deluxe was Tyranus. I hated that fact and hated the names too.You mean the deluxe Force Flipper? Yeah, that was pretty silly. I think Hasbro's reason was that 1 division was trying to protect the character's secret identity while the division handling the Force Flipper wasn't. That's part of what made me think about this topic, how only a few of the toys said "Darth Tyranus".


Anyway, I guess there's enough folks here saying that the lack of use of the name "Tyranus" in the film is what causes us to not think of the character as such.

Kidhuman
12-16-2005, 06:15 PM
Yes I was talking about that monstrosity of a force flipper deluxe.

JimJamBonds
12-16-2005, 11:42 PM
No, there was confusion because of how McCallum first explained it back in the day, McCallum said Lucas' then-young son Jett came up with the name for the character, but what McCallum actually meant was that Jett came up with the SPECIES name for the character ("Gungan", a nonsense word the young boy occasionally used, I think he used it about an actual thing too, possible some large machinery or something), which they clarified in later statements.

If I remember correctly I think Jett would call a truck "gungan."

JediTricks
12-17-2005, 03:51 PM
In the May '99 issue of Premiere magazine, George is quoted as saying "The Gungan were named by my son Jett, but he didn't know what he was doing. He was only two. It was a word that he used to describe heavy machinery." I suppose that could have been a large truck.

darko666
12-17-2005, 07:44 PM
I never liked the names of the Sith: Maul, Sidious, Tyranus. Way to obvious in there recognition of damage and bad things. Which also brings me to another question: Does anyone know Maul's name before being dubbed Darth Maul?

they were supposed to be obvious. they are dubbed those names based on their actions. and there is no mention of Mauls real name in any EU work. as others have said he was taken as an infant from Sidious and never knew his parents. and i think he began his training at the age of 4 or something like that. most of his young life and teen tears were just training until he got his first mission.

Von-El
12-26-2005, 05:02 AM
To answer the question, this is all a matter of secret identities.

Count Dooku was a well-known and respected Jedi. He had been described as a political idealist who was unhappy with the Republic and the Jedi, which were heavily involved in the Republic's politics. Dooku left the Jedi Order and Republic to start the Separatist Movement (at least that is what we are supposed to think).

Unbeknownst to the the Jedi and Republic, Dooku had actually joined the Sith Order and helped set events in motion that would keep Palpatine and the Sith in power for years. Remember the Sith are supposed to be extinct--for 1,000 years. The argument of good being a point of view was sure to arise.

Since the Republic is said to have been in existence for perhaps hundreds of thousands of years, and it is known that the Sith once ruled the Galaxy a thousand years before, I'm sure there are Republic history books on the Sith and their oppression. I'm sure that history is being taught in Galactic Republic schools.

If that is the case, why go around revealing/bragging that you are Sith Lord when you know it may get you arrested and killed?

Darth Vader was known to be a Force-Wielder and the Emperor's most trusted servant, but Palpatine, who villified the Jedi in Episode III couldn't reveal he, himself, was a Sith since the Galaxy had known of the Sith. It would make Palaptine seem hypocritical to villify an organization as evil then reveal he is part of an organization known to be evil. But later on, Palpatine's actions did speak louder than words as the Rebellion grew in strength and numbers.

TheDarthVader
12-26-2005, 10:04 AM
I was going to start a thread about Darth Maul's real name. But now it would be obsolete. I guess the only answers are: 1. he never had one or 2. it is unkown (kind of like Yoda's species name).

B.
TDV