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View Full Version : I don't think Sideshow has a very good bead on the collectors' attitude.



Darth Cruel
12-22-2005, 04:24 PM
Battle Droid posted a link to an interview with Sideshow people in the thread I started about the name of Sideshow's 12" line (Thanks BD!). Reading this interview has me wondering if Sideshow really has their finger on the pulse of Star Wars collectors. I don't want to step on any copyright toes so I will just ask anyone interested to follow the link as it is posted in the above mentioned thread.

It seems to me that the Sideshow guys feel that adult collectors are largely kids that grew out of the action figures and moved on to statues. And that those same adult collectors only care about how much a given piece of their collection is worth.

Now, I am not naive, I do realize that there are people who followed that path. But it seems to me, that is the small minority of collectors. So I would like to get an idea of what your reasons are for collecting, what you collect, and what you like about the type of objects you collect.

And I'll start.

I collect partially for nostalgia, partially for a strange wonder that I feel at miniaturized things that have detail...the more detail the better I like it, partially for the fun of "hunting" (as I refer to it) for new and hard to find items, and partially for the escape it provides me from the everyday grind.

I do not collect to build my net worth. I do not collect to compete. And I do not collect to allow the items I collect to sit on a shelf and gather dust.

When I collect, I like being able to find what I am after eventually. I don't mind having to look for a while, but I want to be sure to get what I am looking for.

I like miniaturization, but I prefer detail. The smaller, the better, but not at the sacrifice of detail. I would rather have a 12" figure with a perfect likeness of the actual character and that characters accessories than a 4" with an unrecognizable face and a poorly crafted weapon. But, if I can have a 4" figure with perfect likeness of character and accessories, I want that one instead. I want articulation because I may want Anakin in a neutral pose to show off the detail of the costume one day, and the next have him in a battle stance of some type that may require a great deal of articulation (such as the super poseable Spider-Man and Hobgoblin that used to hang in my office with Spider-Man swinging on a a web made from the clear coated twist ties that have been holding the Star Wars vehicles in their boxes lately because it gave me a dual benefit of being strong enough to hold the Spidey figure in place AND still looked as much like webbing as anything Toybiz put in the packages to actually represent the webbing) and dodging the attack of the Hobgoblin on his Glider. (On another side note, those are my two favorite figures to dispaly as they have an unbelievable amount of poseability. One of my favorite poses was Hobgoblin standing triumphantly with one hand around Spidey's throat, and Spidey hanging limply from Hobgoblin's hand...It was cool. But I am rambling)

What I would like to know, is how you all feel about collecting. Why do you do it and what do you look for in the items you collect?

JediTricks
12-22-2005, 04:52 PM
I collect for their personal value to me, not what I think I can get for them 5 years down the road. I come to this site to share collecting with others, so I would hope there would be enough of these to go around so I could share the collecting spirit with as many folks as want it. Sideshow's focus on limiting product may keep their company in business, but it takes away part of the meaning of collecting in my eyes.

decadentdave
12-23-2005, 04:15 AM
Well DarthCruel (how apropos) I think your opinion of Sideshow may be somewhat unfair. I just finished listening to the podcast and found it to be very insightful for what us collectors can expect to see coming from the new line of 12" figures and what to plan ahead for. I think Sideshow has a VERY good pulse on the collector market and what collectors and fans would like to see and expect.

Some of the interesting points answered included:

1. We can expect to see 8-10 figures per year with the possibility of 2 very limited exclusives (this screams ComicCon)

2. Sideshow Exclusive Editions would only contain accessories that would not [ostensibly] detract from those wanting the Standard Version itself, meaning that the accessory pack-ins for the exclusive edition would be unique to the specific character (i.e. Skiff Guard Blaster, Holographic Darth Sidious).

3. We can expect to see an assortment of aliens and characters of varying sizes and scales i.e. Yoda, Darth Vader, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C-3PO.

4. The amount of detail, costumes and accessories impact the production costs of individual figures. The $5 price increase on the Anakin figure reflects the increased amount of detail and fabric costs. Contrary to popular myth, they are not bilking the fans simply because they can. The prices can be justified accordingly.

5. All of the figures represented in the fan's choice poll will probably be made at some point.

6. Sideshow has the license for 12" Star Wars figures indefinitely. We can be relatively sure that they will be home to the Star Wars 12" license for a very long, long time.

With that information I now have complete confidence in Sideshow's ability to deliver the highest quality figures to satisfy the expectations of collectors. While Exclusive Editions will continue to remain limited and difficult to obtain, Standard Editions will remain somewhat open-ended for the casual collector/fan to obtain to meet demands.

Exhaust Port
12-23-2005, 06:09 AM
I think the true test will be in what Sideshow decides to create and at what price. For every success Hasbro had (Ultimate Jango) they had 10 awful releases. "Hey look kids, another version of Luke." Meanwhile we were still waiting for other characters to see the production line.

I do think that Sideshow needs to be careful of really gearing this line towards "the collector". How many times did we see characters/packaging released in the name of "the collector" by Hasbro only to see the release selling for $5-10 in a matter of months. A few of those FAO Schwartz releases were stacked waist deep even 1 year later.

I see the 12" line as a big action figure. I believe it was mentioned in the Q&A that the Sideshow releases won't be action figures in their eyes. That's good in one respect as it'll mean a more realistic likeness of each character as well as more details. But I think we could lose a lot in that they will be more of a statue than anything else. There are a lot military themed 12" figures that are not only action figures but also very detailed. I hope that Sideshow finds a good blend of the too. Too much of either and "the collectors" will shy away.

C5Jedi
12-23-2005, 11:41 AM
Well DarthCruel (how apropos) I think your opinion of Sideshow may be somewhat unfair. I just finished listening to the podcast and found it to be very insightful for what us collectors can expect to see coming from the new line of 12" figures and what to plan ahead for..

I Hope you are joking. Other than stating how many were coming out in the upcoming year the rest of the info was easily assumed.

I don't think they do have a good bead on the collector's attitude. Most collectors would like to be able to get their products ordered. I wasn't even able to get an order in for the 12" line despite being signed in 30 minutes early. Website was down for me. Plus I thought if you were a newsletter member you were suppose to receive some early link for ordering (I'm still waiting).. As for their larger size line - great detail but rotten timing for collectors with how they are shipped. At one point I had orders in for premiums Luke, Vader, Greivous, Han Solo, Obi Wan (over $1,500) and still hadn't received the first one which was Luke. Those orders for the most part have been in for months. I now have orders in for Vader/Greivous, Han, Obi, and Leia - just heard that Han is shipping soon.


My other complaint is despite ordering the first two larger scale SW premiums I never received a email from Sideshow telling me when the others were going to be for sale. In fact I found out the last two including the most recent Leia premium edition was available through Rebelscum and not from Sideshow despite my order history with them. Otherwise the edition would have been sold out and I wouldn't have been able to order them at the time. I even emailed them twice asking why they don't notify customers who are buying this series when the next one is going to be available for sale - It's been months and I'm still waiting for an answer.

The orders take forever to get shipped. I'm about ready to cancel most of the remaining as I'm tired of waiting on their pre-ordering system.

C5Jedi
12-23-2005, 11:56 AM
6. Sideshow has the license for 12" Star Wars figures indefinitely. We can be relatively sure that they will be home to the Star Wars 12" license for a very long, long time.

With that information I now have complete confidence in Sideshow's ability to deliver the highest quality figures to satisfy the expectations of collectors. .

For a very long, long time....How disappointing. I was hoping a company would get them who could actually handle the amount of orders they received. Now I can look forward to a jammed website on pre-order day and the words "Sold out" before I can even get the page to load for a very long, long time.

I'm glad you have the confidence in them. I no longer do when it comes to taking the orders.

Darth Cruel
12-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Well DarthCruel (how apropos) I think your opinion of Sideshow may be somewhat unfair. I just finished listening to the podcast and found it to be very insightful for what us collectors can expect to see coming from the new line of 12" figures and what to plan ahead for. I think Sideshow has a VERY good pulse on the collector market and what collectors and fans would like to see and expect.

Some of the interesting points answered included:

1. We can expect to see 8-10 figures per year with the possibility of 2 very limited exclusives (this screams ComicCon)

2. Sideshow Exclusive Editions would only contain accessories that would not [ostensibly] detract from those wanting the Standard Version itself, meaning that the accessory pack-ins for the exclusive edition would be unique to the specific character (i.e. Skiff Guard Blaster, Holographic Darth Sidious).

3. We can expect to see an assortment of aliens and characters of varying sizes and scales i.e. Yoda, Darth Vader, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C-3PO.

4. The amount of detail, costumes and accessories impact the production costs of individual figures. The $5 price increase on the Anakin figure reflects the increased amount of detail and fabric costs. Contrary to popular myth, they are not bilking the fans simply because they can. The prices can be justified accordingly.

5. All of the figures represented in the fan's choice poll will probably be made at some point.

6. Sideshow has the license for 12" Star Wars figures indefinitely. We can be relatively sure that they will be home to the Star Wars 12" license for a very long, long time.

With that information I now have complete confidence in Sideshow's ability to deliver the highest quality figures to satisfy the expectations of collectors. While Exclusive Editions will continue to remain limited and difficult to obtain, Standard Editions will remain somewhat open-ended for the casual collector/fan to obtain to meet demands.

This rebuttal may come off a bit coursely, but I seriously do not intent any angst at all despite my user name. It was chosen because at the time, I thought it sounded cool, not because it fits my personality.

I just listened to your podcast (if you are talking about the one with Tom Gilliland). And I didn't hear much in there to support your side of the discussion. I'll run down the list:

1. This one you seem to have gotten close to accurate. What I heard was a little more exact as he specifically stated "event" exclusives. But that only goes to further make my point about availability.

2. You fail to point out that they specifically stated that an exclusive item will never end up with any other figure. So unless you have an exclusive Jedi Luke with the skiff blaster, your Lando, Gammorean Guard, or any other character that requires one will not have one. And the question was posed to him exactly like that using a Lando Skiff Guard as an example. Now it could be that they misspoke and meant "as an exclusive item", but that is not how it sounded to me.

3. He never directly addressed Chewbacca in this answer. And the interview I read with the other two Sideshow guys seemed to point to him being so much trouble that they would not commit either way as to whether he would be made. On the plus side, he did make it sound like they are at least trying to make an exception to the general "no removeable helmets" rule to accomodate Darth Vader.

4. Doesn't everybody know this? That is even more reason to up the production numbers to recoup those costs and at the same time take a little of the responsibility of those costs off of the shoulders of the customers by dropping the price a couple of dollars. AND, once again, making the figures more available.

5. He most certainly did not say or imply this. He did say that MOST of them would be. But he also implied that the ones that followed up with a lot fewer votes may not be.

6. Was never an issue. There has never been any doubt that Sideshow can make a great figure. And I have stated that before as when some of the other members of the site were concerned about pre-ordering a figure they have never seen in person.

7. You didn't number this one, but as far as the "open ended runs", this only applied to the basic troop builders. He did say that if someone wanted 15 Stormtroopers, they are going to try to make that happen. But he added that that would not apply to variations. Now he didn't say what he meant by variations, but I think "Shock Trooper", "Special Ops Trooper (501st)", "Sand/Snowtroopers", etc. may well fall into that catagory. And it does not address the 1250 unit limited run of the Jedi Luke nor the 6500 unit limited run of the regular edition Luke which goes further toward emphasizing my concern.

Now, even though he gave some great info on what to expect and hope for in the lines (including comfirming that EIII Obi-Wan is next), that interview just reinforced my concern about Sideshow not being in step with collectors. Because to me, half-way don't getcha there. I think that'll be my new signature. It's not flambouant, but like me, it cuts away all of the bs and gets down to the simple basic facts.

The bottom line is: My opinion based on the experience I have is that availability and price have always been as important to Star Wars action figure collectors as articulation, sculpt and accessories have been. And although they reiterate the great detail, articulation, and accessories we can expect, neither of those two interviews goes anywhere near alleviating the concrens about pricing (which really is not one of my own concerns as I have a job that allows be to by anything Star Wars I want and still exceed the expectations I have set for my family's lifestyle) or availability. So my opinion of Sideshow is not only fair, but it is accurate based on words from the mouths of the horses and takes both pros AND cons into consideration. These guys come just shy of flaunting the fact that they base their production numbers on how they will help to keep the secondary market prices up. And not only that, but they come out and say that is what they think the collectors want. And they stated that they don't see the 12" artculated figures as action figures as stated in the above post byC5Jedi. And that, Sir, is decidedly NOT in step with the Star Wars collectors that I am familiar with.

JEDIpartner
12-23-2005, 12:32 PM
The unfortunate reality of Star Wars collecting at this time is that there are two main groups of people. There are those like JT or me, who collect for pleasure. I like opening the figures becuase I know the current production will never increase in the value the second group percieves. That group keeps things in boxes and assumes that in 10 years time, this piece can be sold off for 3-5 times the amount of the original purchase.

So... it depends on who you are. For me, I'm just going to buy the ones that interest me. I have no huge interest in 12" EU characters or even background characters. I don't have that kind of money or space to house such a collection.

Darth Cruel
12-23-2005, 12:37 PM
The unfortunate reality of Star Wars collecting at this time is that there are two main groups of people. There are those like JT or me, who collect for pleasure. I like opening the figures becuase I know the current production will never increase in the value the second group percieves. That group keeps things in boxes and assumes that in 10 years time, this piece can be sold off for 3-5 times the amount of the original purchase.

So... it depends on who you are. For me, I'm just going to buy the ones that interest me. I have no huge interest in 12" EU characters or even background characters. I don't have that kind of money or space to house such a collection.

There is a third group of collector to which I belong. Those of us that don't remove our figures from the cards or boxes and still don't care how much they are worth in the future. I like to have them to display in the package. If I want to open one, I buy a spare.

decadentdave
12-23-2005, 01:15 PM
Darth Cruel, C5Jedi,

I have to disagree with both you on this. First of all, I have had no problems obtaining both of the Sideshow Exclusives so far. I was well informed before hand when to expect these to go on sale and made arrangements accordingly. If you had problems receiving the newsletter, all you had to do was simply log into your account during the "window" period between 10 am-12 pm PST and a link was immediately posted to your personal account when pre-ordering was opened up.

I have been collecting numerous figures from Sideshow and I am quite pleased with the quality. There are the occassional sculpts that don't quite meet the likeness of a particular character i.e. Evil Dead Ash, but the quality is a quantum leap above even the best Hasbro 12" (Ultimate Jango Fett). I am very happy and excited that Sideshow is the new home of Star Wars 12" figures.

I think you guys are nitpicking here. As a collector, I understand the limited nature of collectors items in this business so exclusives are always a bane of collecting, something that I have accepted with indifference for years now. There will always be chase figures and "event exclusives" that collectors and scalpers will seize to capitalize on. It is the decision of the individual collector how far they are willing to go to acquire them and how much they are willing to pay. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Even I have accepted the fact that I cannot have everything so I must therefore be selective about how much I am willing to spend and to what lengths I must go to get the ones I really want. That is part of the thrill of the hunt.

It was my understanding that Sideshow Exclusive figures that contain accessories such as the Skiff Guard blaster would be specific to that particular character but not necessarily mean that we wouldn't see a Skiff Guard Lando or a Gammorrean Guard not have that particular accessory. How could you NOT include a Skiff Guard Blaster with Lando Skiff??? It is an absolute essential detail to a particular figure like that. I think what Sideshow is saying is that the exclusive accessory will be something specific to that particular character and will not be included with the standard version of the same character. Obviously the standard Luke does not include one. Something like the Holographic Darth Sidious will not be available in the Anakin standard edition. I can foresee Episode III Obi Wan will likely include Anakin's lightsaber hilt as an exclusive accessory. Of course, Anakin's lightsaber is already included with the Anakin figure but the standard Obi-Wan will not include that particular accessory. It's just something to differentiate the exclusive edition from the standard edition and not something imperrative for the casual collector but something "extra" that will give serious collectors like myself incentive to purchase exclusive editions and that means always racing to buy them fast before they sell out, something I am well accustomed to after collecting for as long as I have. I do not see that changing, in spite of the "inconvenience" this may cause other collectors. It is exclusive for a specific reason: so that the limited availability insures investment value for the serious collectors. Casual collectors who only care about opening their figures and who collect for fun can stick with the standard editions.

JEDIpartner
12-23-2005, 02:14 PM
There is a third group of collector to which I belong. Those of us that don't remove our figures from the cards or boxes and still don't care how much they are worth in the future. I like to have them to display in the package. If I want to open one, I buy a spare.

True... but that's such a small section of the group and I lump those types of collectors with the first group.

C5Jedi
12-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Darth Cruel, C5Jedi,

I have to disagree with both you on this. First of all, I have had no problems obtaining both of the Sideshow Exclusives so far. I was well informed before hand when to expect these to go on sale and made arrangements accordingly. If you had problems receiving the newsletter, all you had to do was simply log into your account during the "window" period between 10 am-12 pm PST and a link was immediately posted to your personal account when pre-ordering was opened up.
It is exclusive for a specific reason: so that the limited availability insures investment value for the serious collectors. Casual collectors who only care about opening their figures and who collect for fun can stick with the standard editions.

I have to disagree with both you on this. First of all, I have had no problems obtaining both of the Sideshow Exclusives so far. I was well informed before hand when to expect these to go on sale and made arrangements accordingly. If you had problems receiving the newsletter, all you had to do was simply log into your account during the "window" period between 10 am-12 pm PST and a link was immediately posted to your personal account when pre-ordering was opened up.. Casual collectors who only care about opening their figures and who collect for fun can stick with the standard editions.[/quote]

Consider yourself lucky. It was not "simply log into your account" and the problem was solved. The website would not load due to all the traffic (and I have broadband). Again Sideshow's website couldn't handle the orders.

Again I have never been notified by Sideshow about the opening sale of any of their SW items despite being a member of their newsletter and ordering all large scale premium dolls to date. And I've never received a reply from them as to why I'm never notified about their pre-order dates since I've ordered from them on all of their large scale SW premium dolls.

The premiums tend to carry extra/different accessories which is why I want them over the standard editions. If you want investment don't look at current star wars toys/items as there are far better investments to make that are not in the toy market.

Darth Cruel
12-23-2005, 02:52 PM
Darth Cruel, C5Jedi,

I have to disagree with both you on this. First of all, I have had no problems obtaining both of the Sideshow Exclusives so far. I was well informed before hand when to expect these to go on sale and made arrangements accordingly. If you had problems receiving the newsletter, all you had to do was simply log into your account during the "window" period between 10 am-12 pm PST and a link was immediately posted to your personal account when pre-ordering was opened up.

I have been collecting numerous figures from Sideshow and I am quite pleased with the quality. There are the occassional sculpts that don't quite meet the likeness of a particular character i.e. Evil Dead Ash, but the quality is a quantum leap above even the best Hasbro 12" (Ultimate Jango Fett). I am very happy and excited that Sideshow is the new home of Star Wars 12" figures.

I think you guys are nitpicking here. As a collector, I understand the limited nature of collectors items in this business so exclusives are always a bane of collecting, something that I have accepted with indifference for years now. There will always be chase figures and "event exclusives" that collectors and scalpers will seize to capitalize on. It is the decision of the individual collector how far they are willing to go to acquire them and how much they are willing to pay. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Even I have accepted the fact that I cannot have everything so I must therefore be selective about how much I am willing to spend and to what lengths I must go to get the ones I really want. That is part of the thrill of the hunt.

It was my understanding that Sideshow Exclusive figures that contain accessories such as the Skiff Guard blaster would be specific to that particular character but not necessarily mean that we wouldn't see a Skiff Guard Lando or a Gammorrean Guard not have that particular accessory. How could you NOT include a Skiff Guard Blaster with Lando Skiff??? It is an absolute essential detail to a particular figure like that. I think what Sideshow is saying is that the exclusive accessory will be something specific to that particular character and will not be included with the standard version of the same character. Obviously the standard Luke does not include one. Something like the Holographic Darth Sidious will not be available in the Anakin standard edition. I can foresee Episode III Obi Wan will likely include Anakin's lightsaber hilt as an exclusive accessory. Of course, Anakin's lightsaber is already included with the Anakin figure but the standard Obi-Wan will not include that particular accessory. It's just something to differentiate the exclusive edition from the standard edition and not something imperrative for the casual collector but something "extra" that will give serious collectors like myself incentive to purchase exclusive editions and that means always racing to buy them fast before they sell out, something I am well accustomed to after collecting for as long as I have. I do not see that changing, in spite of the "inconvenience" this may cause other collectors. It is exclusive for a specific reason: so that the limited availability insures investment value for the serious collectors. Casual collectors who only care about opening their figures and who collect for fun can stick with the standard editions.


decadentdave - LMAO - OK, OK, you got me. I should have seen it a parsec away but I was blind until you re-hashed debunked points and added new points that were so ludicrous that it only required enough common sense to feed an amoeba to see through. Good one, bud!

decadentdave
12-23-2005, 02:54 PM
Well, I was logged into my account 20 minutes before it went on sale. I kept doing a page refresh until the link appeared on my account which took me to the pre-order page. My friend called me on his cell phone and asked me to order one for him 20 minutes later. The increased traffic slowed the response time a bit but I was still able to log into his account and order one for him as well. If you read the pre-order survival FAQ it was pretty simple as to how the pre-order process was set up. I'm sorry that you are frustrated and that Sideshow's server may have momentarily went down but I have had this happen in the past even with Master Replicas site and was still able to pre-order exclusive items before they sell out.

I can certainly understand you wanting to get the exclusive edition for the bonus accessory. I have every intention of opening mine up for display. But the fact remains that the Exclusive Edition is intended to be more for the serious collectors who do collect for value hence the limited availabilty and the fast sell through on these items.

I think it is hilarious that people are complaining about how quickly Jedi Luke sold out and that they didn't even get to purchase the Standard Edition when he can still be purchased from many online retailers such as Amoktime for less-than Sideshow's retail price. Of course you won't find the Exclusive Edition here but that is precisely my point. If you do a search on ebay you will see that the Exclusive Edition is being sold nearly 3-4 times the original price. That is why it is an "Exclusive Edition." Master Replicas does this with their product line as well. Like I said before, it is the nature of this business. Sure, I would like to see Sideshow open up their Exclusive Editions to higher runs to satisfy demand but then the market is flooded and the limited value is diminished. If anything, I would like to see Sideshow make all of their Standard Editions unlimited to satisfy the demand of casual collectors so that everyone is happy. The Exclusive Edition is what seperates the "men" from the "boys" when it comes to collecting.

Darth Cruel
12-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Well, I was logged into my account 20 minutes before it went on sale. I kept doing a page refresh until the link appeared on my account which took me to the pre-order page. My friend called me on his cell phone and asked me to order one for him 20 minutes later. The increased traffic slowed the response time a bit but I was still able to log into his account and order one for him as well. If you read the pre-order survival FAQ it was pretty simple as to how the pre-order process was set up. I'm sorry that you are frustrated and that Sideshow's server may have momentarily went down but I have had this happen in the past even with Master Replicas site and was still able to pre-order exclusive items before they sell out.

I can certainly understand you wanting to get the exclusive edition for the bonus accessory. I have every intention of opening mine up for display. But the fact remains that the Exclusive Edition is intended to be more for the serious collectors who do collect for value hence the limited availabilty and the fast sell through on these items.

I think it is hilarious that people are complaining about how quickly Jedi Luke sold out and that they didn't even get to purchase the Standard Edition when he can still be purchased from many online retailers such as Amoktime for less-than Sideshow's retail price. Of course you won't find the Exclusive Edition here but that is precisely my point. If you do a search on ebay you will see that the Exclusive Edition is being sold nearly 3-4 times the original price. That is why it is an "Exclusive Edition." Master Replicas does this with their product line as well. Like I said before, it is the nature of this business. Sure, I would like to see Sideshow open up their Exclusive Editions to higher runs to satisfy demand but then the market is flooded and the limited value is diminished. If anything, I would like to see Sideshow make all of their Standard Editions unlimited to satisfy the demand of casual collectors so that everyone is happy. The Exclusive Edition is what seperates the "men" from the "boys" when it comes to collecting.

ROFLMAO - DAVE! PLEASE! Your killing me!

decadentdave
12-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Darth Cruel, your sarcasm only reinforces your single-mindedness.

Darth Cruel
12-23-2005, 03:42 PM
Darth Cruel, your sarcasm only reinforces your single-mindedness.

I apologize DD. I didn't mean any harm. Anyone who knows me on this 'site knows I'm not a jerk.

decadentdave
12-23-2005, 03:46 PM
Nor was I implying such about your name being appropos to the topic of your thread. I was merely commenting that it seemed to be befitting of your demeanor towards Sideshow. I meant nothing personal by it.

JediTricks
12-23-2005, 04:37 PM
What about Sideshow's demeanor towards us though? It's not like we pulled these opinions out of our ears, they're real complaints that a lot of us have, so far I've heard 5 to 1 frustration (frustrated vs non-frustrated) ratios on ordering this Anakin figure and the general limited nature of this line. Star Wars is a bigger line, they should have made bigger runs for exclusive and non-exclusive versions, which I might add would have increased their profits while also letting them lower their costs, but instead they go another route entirely which limits the collecting community at large. Got a job that keeps you off the web at 10am to 4pm? Too bad. Their site wouldn't answer for you till they were all sold out? Too bad. You want to see the product you're preordering with enough advance time to actually decide if you want it? Too bad. You want any solid distributing information so you can decide if you want to buy it from another retailer? Too bad. You were in a coma for a week and missed ordering these the day they came out? Too bad. That's what Sideshow seems to be saying to Star Wars collectors so far: "too bad"

Turbowars
12-23-2005, 07:43 PM
Right on Darth Cruel and JT! I remember wishing SS had the licence for the 12" line and always thinking no way in hell would Hasbro give it up. Well now my wish has come true and it's even harder to get them now. I would like to add that I was able to order both of the exclusives and didn't have a problem doing so. I was off work when Luke was up and I had my wife get Ani. That being said I still do not like the #'s. I know there will be a time or 2 when I wont be able to score a figure due to SS's fault or mine.

The production #'s must increase and that's really my only concern. It seems as if SS really wants to do great things with this line, but they seem hesitant because of the cost. Truthfully, the price doesn't bother me.(but the price of the 1/4 scale does, that's why I will not have any of them) I would pay 85 bucks for a perfect Vader or Chewy. So if you read this BS Side Show, just know that if you make it we will buy it. There's a huge market for this junk and nows the time. Do not alienate those that Do want to buy your product.

Darth Cruel
12-24-2005, 11:24 AM
I missed the first one when my family had a medical emergency. But I have all three since then. But for the 1250 who got the first Luke, the 6500 of us who got the regular Luke, the 1750 of us who got the SE Anakin and the ??? of us (it has been two days since they sold out and still no number on this edition) of us who got the regular Anakin, there are thousands, probably tens of thousands, and maybe hundreds of thousands of people around the world who would like one but didn't get one either because of the limited availability or the cost. In my opinion, when Sideshow got this license, instead of embacing the Star Wars collectors, they tailored the line in keeping with the philosphy of their smaller, more elite group of scalper-type collector customers who only want to be worth more money.

Although I think the figures are stellar (based only on the photos so far), I am beginning to think Sideshow getting the license was a bad thing overall for true Star Wars collectors. There is absolutely no other justification for not mass producing even these high-quality figures other than their own admitted ideal of keeping the secondary market (read: scalper) prices high.

The SSG members along with the members of all the other fan web sites need to start petitioning Sideshow in the form of emailing their customer service to let them see the number of collectors who want these and are not getting them. But if anyone emails them, they need to not say that they will boycott them, just let them know you wanted one and didn't get one. Show them the benefit they could reap if the just make more numbers and knok down the price accordingly.

zakkattakk
12-28-2005, 04:24 PM
Why I collect: Gradification, I guess. Not really sure.

What I collect: Mostly 12" SW figs, which is why i'm big on SSC.

What I like about what I collect: Appearance, likeness, detail, and articulation.

Exhaust Port
12-28-2005, 09:41 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Sideshow reacts to the buyer/collector as this line comes out. We all know that fans can be a fickle bunch and we're sure to find something(s) we don't like. Hasbro was very slow at every addressing any of our concerns over the life of the 12" line. SS will get a big thumbs up from me if they make an honest effort to evolve the line as we finally start to get these things in our grubby little hands.

sevboot
12-29-2005, 11:32 AM
Well, I'm going to stick up for SS here a little. When you start producing things like these figures you really can't tell how much you are going to end up being able to sell. Children are not going to be buying $60.00 figures so there goes a huge consumer base. They know that there is already a 12" line out there that is a lot cheaper so you wouldn't think that demand would be as high. Also, there are no movies coming out from Lucas anymore so that would also affect production numbers. They are still trying to figure out how many they can actually make and still make a profit on. SS is not a huge toy company and they really can't afford to go out and produce huge mass market numbers, besides I don't think the market would support huge numbers anyway, despite what us fans might think. Now, did they maybe forcast too small? Well, yeah, based on what we know now. But SS had to make a educated guess and they were off. The thing is, any company likes to make money. If demand is high enough for these figures the numbers will go up. Based on the first two figures I would say that is possible.
As for the difficulty ordering, that sucks. I was able to just go in and buy in a few minutes. I don't give a fig about exclusives so I really can't relate on that point but the regular figures were avalible for a few days each and they did advertise in advance when they would go on sale.

Darth Cruel
12-29-2005, 01:54 PM
Well, I'm going to stick up for SS here a little. When you start producing things like these figures you really can't tell how much you are going to end up being able to sell. Children are not going to be buying $60.00 figures so there goes a huge consumer base. They know that there is already a 12" line out there that is a lot cheaper so you wouldn't think that demand would be as high. Also, there are no movies coming out from Lucas anymore so that would also affect production numbers. They are still trying to figure out how many they can actually make and still make a profit on. SS is not a huge toy company and they really can't afford to go out and produce huge mass market numbers, besides I don't think the market would support huge numbers anyway, despite what us fans might think. Now, did they maybe forcast too small? Well, yeah, based on what we know now. But SS had to make a educated guess and they were off. The thing is, any company likes to make money. If demand is high enough for these figures the numbers will go up. Based on the first two figures I would say that is possible.
As for the difficulty ordering, that sucks. I was able to just go in and buy in a few minutes. I don't give a fig about exclusives so I really can't relate on that point but the regular figures were avalible for a few days each and they did advertise in advance when they would go on sale.

I can't get behind this excuse either. Two reasons:

1) Sideshow does the pre-order in plenty of time to give everyone two weeks or longer to order what they want and then base the edition size on that. For both the Special AND regular editions.

And

2) What everybody who is sticking up for Sideshow is not addressing (intentionally or by oversight?) is that in both of the interviews (RS' and the CCS podcast) three diferent CCS employees (including the creative director) outwardly admit to keeping the edition numbers low with the specific intent of keeping the secondary market value up.

sevboot
12-30-2005, 11:15 AM
Sideshow already has the number of products being produced set before they set up the pre-orders, otherwise they would not sell out and everyone would have two weeks to order no matter what. One of the things people are complaining about is not having enough time to order because they sell out so fast. Also, it would take forever to actually get the figures made that way. You think we have to wait long now? They can't just call a factory in China and say we want this many and they get your product in a month. Factories will only produce set amounts of numbers and if SS had thought they could have produced more and sold them they would have. Plus, it takes awhile to actually get things made. If they waited for all the pre-order numbers to come in we would be waiting almost a year to actually recieve the finished product in some cases. SS can say things in interviews to make people want to order more because they want the consumer to think it's super limited and rare but the bottom line is money. If they thought they could produce a hundred thousand units that would sell they would. Do you really think they care all that much about the secondary market? It's just talk to make people go out and buy more because they think it's limited. Now, that is something you can be mad about.

Darth Cruel
12-31-2005, 09:34 PM
Sideshow already has the number of products being produced set before they set up the pre-orders, otherwise they would not sell out and everyone would have two weeks to order no matter what. One of the things people are complaining about is not having enough time to order because they sell out so fast. Also, it would take forever to actually get the figures made that way. You think we have to wait long now? They can't just call a factory in China and say we want this many and they get your product in a month. Factories will only produce set amounts of numbers and if SS had thought they could have produced more and sold them they would have. Plus, it takes awhile to actually get things made. If they waited for all the pre-order numbers to come in we would be waiting almost a year to actually recieve the finished product in some cases. SS can say things in interviews to make people want to order more because they want the consumer to think it's super limited and rare but the bottom line is money. If they thought they could produce a hundred thousand units that would sell they would. Do you really think they care all that much about the secondary market? It's just talk to make people go out and buy more because they think it's limited. Now, that is something you can be mad about.

Sev - None of the points you make hold up to common sense. I am familiar enough with manufacturing to know that production numbers can be either set higher in the beginning, or changed during the run. And there are times when changing the number during the run is more costly...but a higher number during the initial run is easily done. There just is no ethical justification for the low production numbers and the Sideshow reps have confirmed that the reason is to keep the secondary market value up. They said it. Now, it almost sounds like you would have that 1250 or 1750 is a big production number and that Sideshow is fooling me into believing it is a small production number by telling me it is. Or what did you mean when you said : "It's just talk to make people go out and buy more because they think it's limited."? 1250 or even the 6500 for the regular edition IS limited.

Sith Lord 0498
01-01-2006, 03:22 PM
Sideshow already has the number of products being produced set before they set up the pre-orders, otherwise they would not sell out and everyone would have two weeks to order no matter what.

Then why have the regular editions listed the edition as "Edition Size TBD"???

If they had the edition number established ahead of time, what's the problem with posting it for everyone to see?

UPDATE: Just looked at Sideshow's site. The regular edition of Anakin Skywalker still says "Limited Edition TBD" despite being sold out. If that makes sense to anyone, please explain it.

Reefer Shark
01-01-2006, 05:51 PM
I have a feeling Sideshows production numbers will increase with time (like Gentle Giant did with their minibusts). That being said, these numbers are way too low. I mean, c'mon.... this isn't Buffy or Freddy vs Jason, everybody knows that Star Wars is the real merchandising GIANT.

All you have to do is look at SS's website to see. All these other properties with lower runs - still in stock. Jedi Luke, 6500, a high run for SS - sold out.

The exclusives really chap my hide. It's like somebody's dangling a carrot in my face saying "you'll never get this". I mean really, anybody that's buying this stuff has to work for a living. Most people with day jobs don't have the luxury to be able to visit Sideshows website at any given time on a weekday. I wasn't able to even try to order the Luke and Anakin exclusives... and I really would have liked the skiff blaster with my Luke. :upset:

I'll be happy with the regular editions, I'm sure they're gonna be fantastic, but knowing that there are better versions out there leaves me feeling a little sour. Especially since there was no way for me to order them.

It looks like these will be some of the best Star Wars figures out there, but I have to agree with Darth Cruel. Sideshow really doesn't have a good bead on the Star Wars collectors attitude, they don't even come close.

C5Jedi
01-04-2006, 11:17 AM
I have a feeling Sideshows production numbers will increase with time (like Gentle Giant did with their minibusts)..

I believe that would be a mistake now. Many collectors, including myself, who are unable to order the first few in a series will pass on the rest of the series to avoid a incomplete collection. The time for Sideshow to have stepped up the numbers was in the beginning with the first one.

After all it's just a Star Wars product - how many people could possibly want it lol Some companies never cease to amaze me with distribution....

Darth Cruel
01-04-2006, 03:42 PM
I believe that would be a mistake now. Many collectors, including myself, who are unable to order the first few in a series will pass on the rest of the series to avoid a incomplete collection. The time for Sideshow to have stepped up the numbers was in the beginning with the first one.

After all it's just a Star Wars product - how many people could possibly want it lol Some companies never cease to amaze me with distribution....

You hit the nail right on the head c5jedi. I also missed the first one and almost chose not to collect because of that. But I did get a regular version Luke and Both versions of Anakin, so I am holding out hope that I will be able to snag a SE Luke someday without paying a grotesque price. That is not looking good, though as I just saw one on eBAy go for $137.00+, and that was bid up to that amount. No buy-it-now.