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Tycho
01-16-2006, 05:13 AM
I've been watching all my Trek VHS tapes "in order" (TNG, DS9, VOY) put in air-date order as best as they can be.

I've only watched the first episode of DS9 and it reaffirms that this was my favorite Star Trek of them all! Such a darn good show and the worm hole, the Bajoran prophesy, the Cardassian-Dominion connection, Gul Dukat (Star Trek's greatest villain) - there's so much to offer. I'm a total "Niner" when it comes to Star Trek. I'd say while the cancellation of Enterprise was a great shame, that there have been no DS9 movies is an even greater injury to Trek fans. This is where the action was!

vulcantouch
01-16-2006, 01:19 PM
since my mom got out of a texas prison 1&1/2 years ago she's been enjoyin my takin her thru the whole modtrek saga in a comprehensible order: finished TNG on thanksgiving, showed her Generations on xmas (cuz of picard's nexus dream- & yeah i Did plan it that way :smoker: ), recently finished all pre-7of9 Voys, and now we're ready to tackle DS9's final ten-ep arc; man what a quotable, pertinent ride (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=25185) :cool: read any of the post-Leave Behind novels? i dug Hollow Men, andy robinson's Stitch In Time and his garak chapter for Prophecy & Change, as well as the cardassia & dominion segments of Worlds Of DS9 :)
vt

Tycho
01-16-2006, 02:20 PM
No. I haven't read much ST literature. Since they don't count a chronology like the SW Expanded Universe, I've kind of used that to say "they don't count." I'd like to read in the Kirk Era "Sarek" and "Best Destiny" if I ever get around to it. Those books are pretty old now, but I've always been curious. "Probe" as well (ST IV sequel). I may be a Niner, but TOS literature is where my interest in the books lie. I read and really enjoyed "Enterprise: The First Adventure" (Kirk, not Archer). But with SW there seems to be almost too much to keep up with. I can't interest myself enough to get through Cestus Deception at this point. I've been trying to get through all the novels in order, but I'm stuck here during the middle of the Clone Wars. Once I get to Yoda and Labrynth of Evil I'll start moving again. But some like Jedi Trial are just not my typical taste. Anyway, I expect it will be a long while before I tackle any Trek literature. I don't think I'm missing out. I'm just simplifying things that I've complicated too far already.

ysalamiri
01-16-2006, 07:46 PM
You got it. DS9 rules, man. Pity very few toys from Playmates when there were so many great possibilities to play with. Imagine the "Man Called Bashir" boxed set, for example. Wouldn't that have been a cool idea?

Meanwhile, Hasbro presents us with the 17th sculpt of Han Solo in ANH costume. Ho-Hum....

ysalamiri
01-16-2006, 07:48 PM
P.S. I wish there was a cool, non-studio run website for the various Trek interests, just like SSG, with daily updates on merchandising, media, offers, etc. Anyone out there listening???

Tycho
01-16-2006, 09:59 PM
Yeah, I too wish I could "complete" my Playmates DS9 series figures.

Gul Damar
Weyoun
The Founder
Ishka (Quark's mom)
General Martok
Cardassian Army Builder
Klingon Army Builder (I used the Star Trek III Kruge for this, though)
Enobran Tain (Garak's Dad)
Section 31

I also wanted the whole baseball teams, Sisko's "Niners" and the Vulcans' Logicians to make a quirky baseball diorama.

I too thought Bashir in the James Bond genre had potential as well.

The Playmates years were good years while it lasted. I collected the standard size from the first 10 through Voyager's figures. I got everything and bought quantities for dioramas. I first thought I'd do with Trek what I never had the opportunity to do with SW as a kid (army build) - and "there were only 10 figures in '92." Then '95 came and I was deep into Trek and SW restarted and I started all over again with the opportunity to buy 100 Stormtroopers. *Sigh* (A bull in a China shop)

Because they were doing a great job, and were the only ones around doing Trek, I bought Art Asylum's Enterprise figures and kept up with their collection as well. We know (or rather don't know) how that's turning out. Anyway, there's a thread here in "Toys - Other - Non-StarWars" about collecting Trek figures. This thread's really about DS9's show. But the merchandise sort of does go hand-in-hand with this fandom phenomena.

If there is a real-live Quark however, he must own e-Bay.

Tycho
01-20-2006, 02:49 AM
I liked "Battlelines" and "The Story Teller." The latter is Julian and Chief O'Brien's first adventure together and also builds Jake and Nog's friendship as well.

Battlelines took out Kai Opaka though she returns in prophet visions or something in later episodes.

ysalamiri
01-20-2006, 04:46 PM
Yeah, I think the final story arc with the Bajoran Dukat, not to mention the ever-cute Ezri had possibilities. Ooooh, and what about a set based on Blood Oath? Klingo Dax and the Warriors three!

Quark doesn't actually own eBay. He just went back in time to before they incorporated and copyrighted the name. They pay him residuals!

pegger
01-20-2006, 10:07 PM
DS9 was my favorite too! Especially in the later years, with the war with the Dominion.

And I really liked the Playmate figs too. I had quite the collection goin, until Yesterday;'s Yar came out....then I quit...gave them all to the children's hospital....

Tycho
01-23-2006, 05:16 AM
I watched "Duet" through the Bajoran Civil War trilogy and loved every minute of it, including Kira and Dax flying fighter craft. Duet was brilliant when Kira discovered that a Cardassian file clerk from a forced labor camp responsible for terrible occupation tragedies had altered his appearance to look like the murderous Gul in charge so he could stand trial and force Cardassia to appologize to Bajor. Meanwhile, the war introduced Kai Winn and Vedek Bariel, two characters that became majorly important to DS9. The whole situation re-cemented my idolism of Major Kira of course.

Tycho
01-25-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm watching Invasive Proceedures and the Trill that hires mercenaries to steal Jadzia's symbiant is none other than Smallville's John Glover (Lionnel Luthor) I need to post this in the Smallville thread as well. Pretty interesting to see him with short hair and clean shaven for Star Trek.

scruffziller
01-27-2006, 01:39 PM
DS9 was one of my least favorite of the series. It's a toss up with Enterprise. I would say I liked DS9 better just because of the writing. I may have liked it more if I had kept watching it when the Dominion Wars came, but I made no effort too. I guess it became more like a SW version of ST and that I have never really vibed with at all. Wrath of Khan is the best of the worst for me in the movies. Motion Picture and Voyage Home are my favs. The philosophy and science was what ST was suppose to be all about the way Roddenberry intended. Dealing with real issues in a future time setting when we believed we had defeated all of the major considered problems. Keep SW, SW and ST, ST. Unless you make a cool crossover of the 2 universes.

I mainly enjoyed it for Odo & Quark's confrontations, thus I dubbed it "The Odo and Quark Show"

Tycho
01-29-2006, 01:52 AM
The CH DS9 tape "The Alternate" and "Armageddon Game" continues to be highly watchable and one of the rare gems of mid-2nd season, before the Dominion and the show getting really good. But in hindsight, Alternate did a great job of making shapeshifters very dangerous even before we knew there was a whole "sea" of them.

mrmiller
01-29-2006, 10:18 AM
You guys are killing me. Talking about how this is your favorite series, and all these great storylines. The reason is, it could have been my favorite series too.

When DS9 first started I was watching it like crazy. I was really liking the show, and watched every episode of the first 2 seasons. Then I moved away to college and never got to watch it again (the same thing killed the first half of Voyager for me). I would catch parts of an episode later on, and realize the DS9 had this huge story arc that seem to be so cool if I had kept up with the series.

Ever since the last seasons set was issued on DVD I've been saying I was going to buy them all and start watching them in order. After this thread you guys may have just got me to spend my Tax return on some DS9 DVD's.

=MATT=

Tycho
01-29-2006, 02:53 PM
Oh you'll love the DS9 DVDs. I too went to college when DS9 was getting under full way with the Dominion Wars. However, we had cable in our recreation lounges on each floor of our dorm. Then they added optional cable TV to our rooms. I remember running from floor to floor to find and reserve a free rec-room TV for DS9 while all the girls watched 90210 or reality shows. One of my friends used to run to my floor to make fun of us nerdy guys and she'd tell us things about Beverly Hills characters we knew nothing about during commercial breaks from her show. I'm sure she did it just to be cute or annoy us or whatever.

DS9 without any interruptions is by far worth it.

Jayspawn
02-01-2006, 10:27 AM
I'm an Original Series fan, but I can say without a dought that Trials and Tribbleations is one of DS9s BEST episodes.

ysalamiri
02-01-2006, 06:06 PM
Some of my favorites are "Little Green Men" and "The Visitor", plus a number of later episodes that feature massive intership dog-fights.

Tycho
02-01-2006, 06:54 PM
Yeah, what non-Niners don't know is that they had battles (done by ILM I think) that were with models (then later CGI probably) that had as many ships in it as ROTS or ROTJ - and it was on free network TV! The quality was way beyond what I've seen on Babylon-5, though I admit I didn't watch that series, just saw glimpses.

And the storyline, the prophesies, the whole relationship between Star Trek exploration notions and all out intergalactic war was on a level comparable to Star Wars - plus being a TV series, they had the time on a weekly basis to really go deep into the character relationships. I always wondered who it would be to kill Gul Dukat (the ultimate Trek villain IMO): Sisko, Kira, or Worf. They all were pushed so far as to act "non-Starfleet" on so many levels and just lay waste to the SOB! Dukat was Sisko's true-nemesis that tortured him, repeatedly raped Kira's mother, and murdered Worf's wife. Do you get stuff like that from any other Star Trek show? DS9 evoked real emotions concerning the characters. The other Treks didn't even come close to touching it!

JediTricks
02-02-2006, 08:16 PM
ILM was never involved with DS9's effects.


I always thought they went the wrong way with Dukat, he would have made such an interesting "non-bad-guy" character that could lead us into the inner workings of the Cardassian military and gov't.

He didn't rape Kira's mother, she went willingly with him.

pegger
02-02-2006, 08:58 PM
I loved Dukat as a "bad" guy....

The episode when his daughter dies tho and he becomes "evil" bothered me tho. It seemed to me that before then he "evil from a certain point of view" and a much richer character..

Tycho
02-02-2006, 09:35 PM
ILM was never involved with DS9's effects.


I always thought they went the wrong way with Dukat, he would have made such an interesting "non-bad-guy" character that could lead us into the inner workings of the Cardassian military and gov't.

He didn't rape Kira's mother, she went willingly with him.

Kira's mom was blackmailed into being his consort mistress - whatever - so that her family would live a little better. It seems like rape to me, even if it is by coersion instead of brute force. The latter just wasn't Dukat's style.

Kira's mom was no angel though (as she discovered).

JediTricks
02-02-2006, 10:38 PM
I loved Dukat as a "bad" guy....

The episode when his daughter dies tho and he becomes "evil" bothered me tho. It seemed to me that before then he "evil from a certain point of view" and a much richer character..
It's just so 1-dimensional for him to be a bad guy, and like you said, after Ziyal died, Dukat just became a raging looney - pretty off for a guy who was willing to kill her only a few years before. Dukat was a great "he's bad because he believes what he's doing is right" character, those are the ones I think make the best good guys because you never know what's coming or if it has strings attached or what point of view he has that could pull the rug out from under him. Damar once he started down the good guy path was like that, then he just became a 1-dimensional freedom fighter which was ok but not as good.



Kira's mom was blackmailed into being his consort mistress - whatever - so that her family would live a little better. It seems like rape to me, even if it is by coersion instead of brute force. The latter just wasn't Dukat's style.Dukat never forced Meru (Kira Nerys' mother) to do anything nor did he threaten her or her family's life if she didn't go with him, it wasn't coersion, she willingly chose to be Dukat's consort and could have said "no" freely.

Tycho
02-03-2006, 01:56 AM
Still, isn't Dukat one of the top Star Trek characters you just want to chop with a bat'leth? Heheh.:D

JediTricks
02-03-2006, 04:05 AM
Not even remotely, he's one of the few warriors who is cunning enough that I'd worry about going up against. Dukat's gotta have some shifty tricks up his sleeve, he's nuanced and interesting, unlike that awful Gowron DS9 pulled out of mothballs (man, what a gip that guy was, he was way more interesting on TNG).

Tycho
02-09-2006, 01:00 PM
Oh, I meant to send my compliments Dukat's way. He's one of my all-time favorite characters.

Meanwhile, I just watched Season 3's "Past Tense:" one of Trek's finest couple of hours. A great "movie." It stands for all that Trek stands for. Past Tense is a masterpiece!

Tycho
02-16-2006, 12:32 AM
"The Die is Cast" rocked - the first great battle with the Dominion when the Cardassian-Romulan Fleets attack the Founders' homeworld and StarFleet decides to sit back and see if they succeede. Incredible. Man the Defiant has some firepower in that little ship, too!

Kudos to Sisko for going after Odo and Garack. Meanwhile, Michael Eddington was getting interesting even if we all did hate him: StarFleet intelligence turned Maquis traitor!

vulcantouch
02-16-2006, 01:17 AM
-indeed; it, along w/"improbable cause" 1st-parter are in my top 10 eps- so impeccably performed, paced, scored & written (among the most quotable dialog ever, esp. odo/garak/tain xchanges) in addition to being the 1st trek 2-parter whose 2nd half truly kept up & paid off the excellence established by the 1st half :smoker:
overall DS9's 3rd season was its golden age for me, with its broad, stylin playground of elements, themes, motifs & threads coming together & into their own, just b4 the peak ripeness of season 4 :pleased:
vt

JimJamBonds
02-16-2006, 01:40 AM
Personally I just never got into DS9, it never 'clicked' for me the way that TNG (and to a far lesser extent ((and time)) that Voyager) did.

JediTricks
02-16-2006, 01:44 AM
Worf kinda ruined DS9 I think, he was totally unneccessary and they featured him way too much. The time between them getting the Defiant and getting Worf was the best IMO, and that happens to be season 3, which "Improbable Cause" and "The Die is Cast" were towards the end of. One of the best 2-parters, and one of the few Trek 2parters not to be a season cliffhanger.

TNG was at its best in season 3 as well. TOS wasn't though, NBC's cheapskate ways had finally caught up to it real bad at season 3.

Tycho
02-16-2006, 03:36 AM
TNG was funny:

Season 1-2 were no where near the quality the show climbed to.

Season 3 was getting really good.

The first part of Season 4 was awesome, "Best of Both Worlds, Brothers, Reunion, Legacy, etc." Then it dulled.

5th Season? Redemption was good but overall, a lot of it was dull - but not "Relics, Darmok, Ensign Ro" and a few gems like that.

6th Season was particularly good, I thought: "Chains of Command, A Fistfull of Datas, The Quality of Life, Timescape, Second Chances, etc." were awesome. 6th Season would be my first choice if I were to watch a DVD set.

7th Season? Stuff like "All Good Things" rocked, and "Gambit 1&2" were good. Pre-Emptive strike and Lower Decks were nice diversions, but they toyed with new characters a lot and it wasn't exactly TNG (not that it wasn't a welcome diversion).

By contrast, DS9 got better every year I think. Perhaps its 6th Season was the best as well (the whole Dominion Occupation story arc and the huge space battle).

Overall, DS9 was way stronger than TNG as we are exploring here.

Jargo
02-17-2006, 01:22 PM
I cvan't stand TNG but love DS9. Garak has to be one of the more interesting characters to inhabit the trek universe. And yet despite DS9 being my favourite i can't stand Ben Sisko, his stacatto delivery of dialogue (and constant bellowing) is even more annoying than Shatners.
I developed a crush on Nana visitor while watching DS9. Kai Opaka almost had me hurling things at my tv. such a vile character.
I agree that Worf seemed to be a spare part. jake Sisko was partivcularly unneccesary. it was after all a frontier space station, what the hell was a kid doing there? ho hum. oh and we got the Defiant and the best runabouts until the delta flyer in Voyager.
DS9 would be the only one of the shows I'd buy. I'd let people buy me Voyager and I wouldn't have TNG or Enterprise anywhere near my house. I've seen so many reruns of the original series i don't think I'll ever need to see that again. I stopped watching the movies after the whale incident.
I wouldn't mind watching a DS9 movie. even if it was set years after the show ends. and how it ended! Fantastic.

Jayspawn
02-17-2006, 02:58 PM
Thats too bad JARGO. You miss a lot of great Trek.

pegger
02-17-2006, 03:07 PM
One character I grew to like was Nog. When his character was first introduced, he was annoying...but I enjoyed watching him grow up, and have the conflicts in him (follow the family - go his own way) etc... ot only did he give his own character alot more depth, but a lot more in the depth into the whole Ferengi race as well.

On the whole, DS9 dealt a lot better with the children in the show than TNG did - Wesley was really annoying.....

Jargo
02-17-2006, 09:01 PM
hehe wesley hit puberty got chubby and then mysteriously disappeared to starfleet academy. once he'd lost the chubb he came back! gotta love hollywood.

I've probably watched nearly all of TNG and I've watched a fair bitof Enterprise. they just didn't grab me. TNG just looked horrible with all those hideous fabrics they used for costume. the alien life and human planet dwellers with those nothing design fabrics all splodges of dull colours. and the ship with that horrible white and pink decor. cold and sanitised. I couldn't engage (sorry bad pun) with the characters. I think the whole premise of the DS9 out there in space in dangerous territory from the outset, with a very small band of characters all fighting to hold things together, that's a good start. the continuing trawl through the various rock balls and very earthlike planets wasn't really very interesting. it was too politically correct and lifeless. DS9 gave us all kinds of conflict, growth, relationships and then at the end delivered a great burst of energy. DS9 just had more balls. And as slick as voyager was it to didn't have the same gritty edginess that DS9 had at times. I think DS9 spoke a lot more about social politics than any of the other shows. DS9 also openly challenged racism, rather than just nod a head at it. Perhaps it was the time, the era, but I think subsequent efforts have failed because politics is just a mess now there are no clearly defined good or bad guys in our world it's all muddy. I think DS9 did less of making stuff up and making it fit and had more of a concentration on characters and plot, themes and sub themes. characters with personal agendas rather than characters who blandly all pull together.
there are some good episodes of TNG like the one where Tasha dies. and the spinal transplant worf gets. oh and seeing the first Borg and Ferengi. I see Voyager as a submarine story. in fact the interior of Voyager resembled some sort of submarine. the grey walls and the dimmed lighting. and then the whole claustrophobic thing of being trapped in a tin boat miles from home with no map. but that got pretty boring pretty quickly for me. well aside from seven of nine joining the crew but even she got stale quite fast. The only character I really cared about was the doctor EMH. On the other hand in DS9 i felt very involved with the Sisko's, Kira and Odo, Garak and Gul Dukat, Quaark and Rom, O'brien and Keiko, The doctor and Jadzia and not forgetting Worf and the return of Alexander mean and with a chip on his shoulder. It was just great storytelling. something the other shows missed. they had arcs but they didn't have any real story.

Tycho
02-17-2006, 10:52 PM
I totally have to agree with Emperor Jargo. He described DS9 perfectly!

I just got done watching the Ferengi story "Family Business," that first introduced Brunt, F.C.A. - hilarious. I used to dread Ferengi episodes each week they advertised them, then ended up loving each one. They were clearly not my favorite Star Trek race, but they were so enjoyable. Jeffrey Combs was great in each of his Star Trek roles, but I gotta shout out for Brunt - when he was appearing in Quark's closet in a later episode and Quark was looking for his childhood action figures! Oh the funny writing they did with Ferengi on that show. For TNG aliens, DS9 sure stole their show!

Tycho
02-25-2006, 03:46 AM
I just watched the episode "The Visitor" about an older Jake Sisko trying to rescue his father. It was a combination of superior writing and great acting, but that episode always makes me cry. It also seems far longer than its 45min run-time. Great stuff. I think they won an Emmy for that one, too.

JediTricks
02-26-2006, 07:03 PM
Man, that ep really chews you up and spits you out, the ending is too much to bear.

BTW, the actress who plays the girl who comes to visit old Jake is the daughter of Andrew Robinson, the actor who plays Garak. Also, the novel Jake has written in this episode "Anslem" is the title of the novel he writes when the muse visits him in "The Muse" later in the season.

I'm afraid DS9 has never won an emmy for anything other than technical merits (music, makeup), though it has been nominated I think. The ep was nominated for a Hugo and nominated for an emmy for best makeup though.

Tycho
02-26-2006, 07:24 PM
Another tear-jerker today, though not quite as powerful as "The Visitor" was "indiscretion." That's when Dukat (with Kira) rescues his half-Bajoran daughter Ziyal from a Breen slave camp. Dukat plans on killing her to protect his marriage and moreso his career, but Kira influences him otherwise. It really brought home the complexities of the Dukat character - one of the best in all of Star Trek.

Tycho
03-05-2006, 11:38 PM
Dude. The DOMINION'S awesome! I just watched "To The Death" and "Broken Link" when they made Odo completely human. The tension is definitely rising.

I never tire of this show! In between it all was the feel-good moment in "Body Parts" when Brunt shut down Quark and confiscated all his property but the crew donated him everything he needed to restart business. (Except I didn't see Major Kira there, hehe).

In light of what I think "The Constant Gardener" is probably about, I think it's funny that Garak was once a gardener at the Cardassian Embassy on Romulus around the time of a lot of Romulan dignitaries' deaths. Hehe.

DS9 rules over any other ST in so many ways. Even the lines are memorable.

"Victory is life!"

Tycho
12-19-2011, 05:05 AM
I really could start re-watching this series tonight.

It was always my favorite Star Trek and I so loved this show!

I want to watch Sisko and O'Brien and Odo fight crime on the station.

I think it's because I watch Hell on Wheels now and Colm Meaney (O'Brien) works with the Sweede - this guy who's just like a corrupt version of Odo in a western.

A great show!