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View Full Version : ROTJ DVD Lucas goof



CooLJoE
01-22-2006, 06:10 PM
I know many of you like the change in ROTJ to have Hayden show up as a the ghost-Anakin at the end (seeing my personal pic, you can tell what I think :p). However, Lucas goofed when he did this scene. I just noticed it today while watching ROTJ (its been an OT DVD weekend for me, watched the whole trilogy). Most of us (mostly likely all of us) know what outfits Anakin wore during the prequels. Well, look at him as a ghost in ROTJ again, because he isn't wearing anything that he wore in those prequels (aside from the robe). In the ROTJ ghost scene, he has a brown robe, long light tan tabards, long light tan tunic, light tan pants, and brown under shirt. Basically he has the same outfit as Obi-Wan in the OT.

Now remember, the arguement to have Hayden play the part is because this is the last "look" or "version" of Anakin before he turned to the darkside (because some people think thats the only way you would look when giving in to the force and becoming a "ghost"). However, its still not correct, as we all know that Anakin's look before turning to the darkside was in a dark brown robe, regular sized dark brown leather tabards, regular sized dark brown tunic, brown pants, and black under shirt. Good job Lucas, you screwed up that change too.

And to debunk any arguements that it was a previous outfit he wore, look again. Anakin never wore an outfit, such as he did as a ghost in ROTJ, in the prequels, ever. So like I said, Lucas goofed on his own change to the OT.

bobafrett
01-22-2006, 06:13 PM
Maybe the outfit he wore in the prequels was his "bad boy" outfit, the rebel Jedi, and then when he reached the otherside, or spirit life, he was given his new set of proper Jedi robes, no?

CooLJoE
01-22-2006, 06:38 PM
Maybe the outfit he wore in the prequels was his "bad boy" outfit, the rebel Jedi, and then when he reached the otherside, or spirit life, he was given his new set of proper Jedi robes, no?

Eh, I don't buy that. If you can change outfits simply because of becoming a spirit, then you should also be able to keep your "look" at the time you become a spirit; aka, Anakin as a spirit should then be the one we saw in the non-SE ROTJ (Sabastian Shaw).


Here's pics to point out the goof:

Hayden as Anakin in ROTS pre-darkside
http://specialed.no-ip.com/ROTS-haydenanakin.jpg

Hayden as Anakin in ROTJ DVD half shot
http://specialed.no-ip.com/ROTJ-haydenanakin%20halfshot.jpg

Hayden as Anakin in ROTJ DVD full shot
http://specialed.no-ip.com/ROTJ-haydenanakin%20fullshot.jpg

Ji'dai
01-22-2006, 07:24 PM
Lucas should have replaced Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor and the travesty would have been complete.

Lord Malakite
01-22-2006, 08:14 PM
Lucas should have replaced Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor and the travesty would have been complete.
Not quite. They could replace Yoda's OT puppet with Episode I's puppet.:D

Turbowars
01-22-2006, 08:53 PM
It's not like we saw all the characters every second and every moment of their lives. They could have worn other things. However the edit should have never been done.

JediTricks
01-22-2006, 10:16 PM
Yeah, the robes are way off, they basically just took what Sebastian Shaw was wearing in the scene and gave it to Hayden. While ROTJ can rightfully get away with that because it was made before the prequels and had to assume that Obi-Wan's garb was the norm, the new edit does not enjoy that privilege because it had the Ep 1 and Ep 2 costumes even if development on Ani's Ep 3 costume and makeup weren't complete.

Below is something I said to a buddy in an email discussion about the young Ani ROTJ edit in general:

The prequels were not enough to convince me that Sebastian Shaw under the helmet throwing the Emperor over the railing to save his son at risk to his own life wasn't truly the light side Anakin. He wasn't a zombie, he spoke of the good within him actually being there with his son, he wanted to see his son with his own eyes, that was the last living moments of the good Anakin Skywalker.

JimJamBonds
01-22-2006, 11:04 PM
Lucas should have replaced Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor and the travesty would have been complete.

A buddy of mine has actually said he'd like Ewan to be put in for Guinness' part. :eek:

Rocketboy
01-22-2006, 11:09 PM
He should have put Charles Barkley in there too.

El Chuxter
01-22-2006, 11:51 PM
JT, I think I heard somewhere that they merely superimposed Hayden's head over Sebastian's, and the rest of the body is still Sebastian's, which explains the wrong robes.

Kidhuman
01-23-2006, 02:59 AM
There should be 3 images of Chuck Norris.

CooLJoE
01-23-2006, 04:16 AM
JT, I think I heard somewhere that they merely superimposed Hayden's head over Sebastian's, and the rest of the body is still Sebastian's, which explains the wrong robes.

You know, while I was creating this thread I had thought that maybe they did that with Sabastian Shaw's body and Hayden's head. I'd have to watch the scene again or look at the pics again, but I think Sabastian was a bit bigger around the waste than Hayden and the one we saw in the ROTJ edits. But hey, that would explain the outfit goof.

That or Lucas didn't goof and decided he wanted Anakin to look similar to Obi-wan in that scene rather than be in an all black/dark-brown outfit while in spirit form.

Jek Porky 2002
01-23-2006, 04:42 AM
I actually prefer seeing Hayden there. I think the lighter cloak is a metaphor to show that Anakin truely has come back over to the lighter size. Spiritually that is how he is shown, in full traditional Jedi robes.

CooLJoE
01-23-2006, 05:01 AM
El Chuxter, what you heard and my thoughts of the scene are right (well the thought I had when making the thread). Check these two images from ROTJ with Sebastian and with Hayden. Its Sabastian's body, but Lucas replaced the head (and partial neck. they gave the Hayden version a v-neck instead).

http://specialed.no-ip.com/ROTJ-spirits_copy1.jpg
http://specialed.no-ip.com/ROTJ-spirits_copy2.jpg

The proof of this can be noted by the outline of the body, which has the folds, creases, and bumps all in the same exact places as the original version with Sebastian. Plus the objects that appear through the spirit (since its semi translucent) are in the same spots in correlation to the body and clothing. Plus the lines in the clothing itself are identical. Its definetely a head swap.

vader68
01-23-2006, 09:08 AM
I hate the changed version, Lucas should have left Hayden's head out of it.The other thing I see nobody has mentioned, is the fact that Anakin is still going to age even in the suit. So why have a young Anakin at all for the image? That is just ridiculous!

JimJamBonds
01-23-2006, 11:26 AM
Actually that has been mentioned before in other threads, I'm fine with having Hayden in it. Having the 'young' Anakin takes the viewer back before Anakin became a Sith.

JEDIpartner
01-23-2006, 02:06 PM
This is one of those things that begs me to say, "I really couldn't possibly care less either way."

shammykenobi
01-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Maybe the spirits should have just been naked?

El Chuxter
01-23-2006, 04:02 PM
Maybe... the spirit has whatever clothes it was wearing when it died (even though those clothes appear to stay behind), and Anakin showed up in Jedi Heaven wearing black armor and Obi-Wan said, "Dude, you are not wearing that" and gave him an extra tunic from his own closet.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-23-2006, 07:27 PM
Maybe... the spirit has whatever clothes it was wearing when it died (even though those clothes appear to stay behind), and Anakin showed up in Jedi Heaven wearing black armor and Obi-Wan said, "Dude, you are not wearing that" and gave him an extra tunic from his own closet.
Haha! :D

Speaking of clothes . . . didn't Yoda take his clothes along with him when he died, while Obi-Wan left them behind? Maybe that was the last lesson from Qui-Gon Jinn, but Obi-Wan died too soon to hear it. :D

Anyway, I like the Hayden version. Watch it 1-6 and it makes more sense.

And I like how people are crying foul over Anakin wearing different robes in the 2004 version. Apparently everyone forgot that in the old one, he randomly appeared as an old man with a full head of hair. Even without the prequels, it's obvious he NEVER looked like that in his life. So why shouldn't he look as he did when he was still actually good?

Oh, and . . . what about his arm? By the time he had the ROTS/ROTJ spirit haircut, his right arm was long gone. Did he get it back, or is it spirit-robotic? I'm inclined to say he got it back.

Danger Mouse
01-23-2006, 07:58 PM
I know many of you like the change in ROTJ to have Hayden show up as a the ghost-Anakin at the end (seeing my personal pic, you can tell what I think :p). However, Lucas goofed when he did this scene. I just noticed it today while watching ROTJ (its been an OT DVD weekend for me, watched the whole trilogy). Most of us (mostly likely all of us) know what outfits Anakin wore during the prequels. Well, look at him as a ghost in ROTJ again, because he isn't wearing anything that he wore in those prequels (aside from the robe). In the ROTJ ghost scene, he has a brown robe, long light tan tabards, long light tan tunic, light tan pants, and brown under shirt. Basically he has the same outfit as Obi-Wan in the OT.

Now remember, the arguement to have Hayden play the part is because this is the last "look" or "version" of Anakin before he turned to the darkside (because some people think thats the only way you would look when giving in to the force and becoming a "ghost"). However, its still not correct, as we all know that Anakin's look before turning to the darkside was in a dark brown robe, regular sized dark brown leather tabards, regular sized dark brown tunic, brown pants, and black under shirt. Good job Lucas, you screwed up that change too.

And to debunk any arguements that it was a previous outfit he wore, look again. Anakin never wore an outfit, such as he did as a ghost in ROTJ, in the prequels, ever. So like I said, Lucas goofed on his own change to the OT.
Going by your own logic, shouldn't Sebastian Shaw be garbed in Vader's outfit? I mean, when in heck did Anakin wear that Jedi robe after Mustafar?

timmae
01-23-2006, 10:29 PM
anakin looks happy there and not thinking of the dark side at all. this was from a scene with padme that was never produced. there was so many other days that these characters lived in the timeline that were not in the movie. they make a slew of figures that were not in the movies (how many episodes would it have taken if the movies were based on yoda's life). we never saw the closets of these characters. or the locker rooms of the pod racers.

JediTricks
01-24-2006, 08:05 PM
When Obi-Wan was killed, only his robe was left behind.

DarkArtist
01-25-2006, 08:04 AM
As far as the robes yes it is Sebastin Shaw, however, Anakin's outfit is AOTC is darker then most of the Jedi, of course with the exception of Luke in ROTJ. I like the idea of Hayden being in ROTJ, of course I would have done the image over again and not just superimposed a head over another.

My fear is that give it a few years and we will see the Super Duper Special Edition of the Star Wars Saga, with over 3 minutes of never before scene footage and new alternate endings. I can see Lucas using the Endor Celebration to bring back such spirits as Qui Gon, Mace and the rest of the Jedi council, maybe even put in those rumored scenes of Padme in ROTJ during the famous "Do you remember your mother ?" scene. Perhaps Padme will show up as a ghost in the Endor celebration along with the Jedi.

I still feel that Lucas should however make two versions of the Saga. One which is his edit, exactly the way he wants it, and one that has all the deleted scenes incorporated back into it. Let the fans decide which version is right for them.