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View Full Version : Lucas gives the fans NON-ANAMORPHIC OT DVD's!!!



decadentdave
05-18-2006, 09:04 PM
Thought I get this one going to get the old threads going again and this was bound to come up so let the debates begin!!!

Yes, Lucas is a money grubbing S.O.B.!!! I always knew he'd give us the original versions to mine the cash cow but to give us sub-standard versions that we can't even watch on 16:9 displays is inexcusable.

JediTricks
05-18-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't get it either, it couldn't cost that much to go back to the 35mm and extract a decent anamorphic widescreen transfer rather than depend on a 14-year-old non-anamorphic one.

UKWildcat
05-18-2006, 09:17 PM
I didn't know they were non-anamorphic. :mad:

I don't have a 16:9 television right now but I will someday soon. I guess I'll still pick up these titles since the chances of them getting an anamorphic release are slim to none. Well this is a damn shame... Thanks for the depressing news dave. :upset:

No kidding JT.

Beast
05-18-2006, 09:38 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Original Trilogy Movie Forums? :confused:

decadentdave
05-18-2006, 09:43 PM
I didn't know they were non-anamorphic. :mad:

I don't have a 16:9 television right now but I will someday soon. I guess I'll still pick up these titles since the chances of them getting an anamorphic release are slim to none. Well this is a damn shame... Thanks for the depressing news dave. :upset:

No kidding JT.

Sorry Wildcat but I was just as depressed when I read it. Sucks because I just upgraded my Planet of the Apes box set just to get anamorphic transfers so I could watch it on my 16:9 display and the non-anamorphic transfers looked HORRIBLE! They were small unscalable windows that filled up less than HALF of the screen real-estate! That's what we can expect from these crap DVD's Lucas is trying to stick in our faces like a politician giving a lollypop to a child. He thinks we're stupid and technologically ignorant. He forgets that his audience grew up on his technologically cutting edge film making. This is just to FORCE (pun noted) us to upgrade to his HD box set next year so he can rub it in our faces that his super wet-dream versions are better than the obsolete theatrical cuts.

decadentdave
05-18-2006, 09:43 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Original Trilogy Movie Forums? :confused:


Those threads weren't back up when I posted this. JT can move it their if you'd like.

Beast
05-18-2006, 10:08 PM
Those threads weren't back up when I posted this. JT can move it their if you'd like.
All the threads were up. You just weren't able to see them because the forums default to showing only the last month worth of posts. And the thread about the DVD release was up for over an hour before you started this one. Just saying. :)

Bacta Beast
05-19-2006, 09:58 AM
Okay, I'm one of the technologically ignorant ones. At least as far as this is concerened. What does it mean that these discs won't be anomorphic? The picture that I've seen of the boxes show "widescreen" so what is the difference with the "anomorphic" process? I have a wide screen and I always by the "widescreen" version of whatever movie I'm buying so it does matter to me. Will these fill up my screen natuarally or will I have to stretch them?

2-1B
05-19-2006, 10:17 AM
If you stretch them, they will lose picture quality because that's what the anamorphic makes up for.

If you don't stretch them, they will be letterboxed on your screen but with shaded out areas on the side so it will be like watching on a regular TV screen...you'll still get the whole image, though.

I have a widescreen TV, too, but it's nothing fancy digitally so I'm curious to see how these look on mine? I think it will be fine.

decadentdave
05-19-2006, 11:59 AM
Non-Anamorphic letterbox displays on a 16:9 display as a rectangular "box-within-a-box," in other words, you still get the full picture but it is not filling up the entire screen and not only do you have a black letterbox matte on the top and bottom of the screen but also on the sides so you are wasting precious screen area. It is the full screen size for a 4:3 traditional television but you don't notice this because it fills up your entire "square" television frame. A 16:9 widescreen display opens this up and the result is wasted black space. The only way to "scale" a non-anamorphic letterbox picture is to use your DVD or television's "zoom" feature which just blows up the picture and the pixels become blocky and looks like crap.

Anamorphic means that the pixels have already been enhanced to scale correctly on 16:9 displays. It fills the entire width of the 16:9 display. The picture is still letterboxed depending on the aspect ratio that the film was shot in and since most traditional films are shot in 2:35:1 you will still see letterboxing on the top and bottom of the frame. You are still getting the complete, uncropped image as it was shot so this is normal. If the film is shot in a 1:78:1 aspect ratio, it will fill the entire 16:9 screen with no letterboxing at all. If a 2:35:1 film is rendered in 1:78:1 full frame then the aspect ratio is "cropped" so you lose part of the picture similar to a pan-and-scan full frame on a 4:3 television.

JediTricks
05-19-2006, 01:54 PM
It's basically double-letterboxing for any widescreen TV, totally lame.

2-1B
05-20-2006, 04:44 AM
But JT, now the LaserDisc investors won't feel left out because their LDs will not be much worse than the DVDs that they now don't have to buy (and sue over lol ). :crazed:

master jedi
05-22-2006, 09:26 PM
I have LD rips that I made anamorphic and put onto DVD. I just don't see why the professionals can't, or won't, make the official releases anamorphic. What's it really going to hurt?

Aside from the anamorphic thing I think they should clean up the LD picture as far as cleaning up the dirt and scratches because I think those versions have a bit of a problem with that. It's a decent picture but the pic is all dirty and scratchy. I'm not saying redo the effects or recut the movie, just clean up the pic. That's all I'm asking from them. Plus include the dang cut scenes from ANH which were on the Behind the Magic CD-Rom as well as the ones from ESB and RotJ.

Bacta Beast
05-23-2006, 11:03 AM
Thanks, that's the most comprehesive explanation I've seen posted yet. I agree about the cut scenes. If they were good enough to make it on the "Behind the Magic" disc why aren't they good enough for the DVDs?

seanmcfripp
05-23-2006, 07:18 PM
T'bone's site has a pretty funny conspiracy theory on this whole matter, if anybody wants to check it out. In a nutshell, he thinks Lucas is and always has been sticking it to his ex-wife by pulling this kind of stunt.

Exhaust Port
05-24-2006, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the explaination guys, I was a bit unsure of what non-anamorphic meant myself. Anyway, that's rather disappointing to say the least. Since I feel fortunate that GL had a change of heart and decided to release the OT in their OF (original form) I shouldn't really complain but still, this is a bit disappointing.

James Boba Fettfield
05-25-2006, 10:55 AM
Since I feel fortunate that GL had a change of heart and decided to release the OT in their OF (original form) I shouldn't really complain but still, this is a bit disappointing.

If this release was done in 1998, then I could understand not complaining about anamorphic widescreen versions on DVD.

decadentdave
05-25-2006, 12:36 PM
You are missing the point. It has nothing to do with the way they were originally released. Non-Anamorphic means that if you watch them on a widescreen TV you are going to be watching a small window-within-a-box. It's like watching a small quicktime file on your computer. Believe me, if you buy these DVDs, as soon as you buy an HDTV you are going to be crying in your pants when you pop them in. Like I said before, I just had to upgrade my Planet of the Apes collection for this very reason alone because when I bought them in 2000 they weren't anamorphic. George can give us crappy 1992 quality laserdisc transfers without 5.1 Dolby Digital if he wants to but the fact that I cannot watch them on a widescreen television in their original theatrical aspect ratio as they have always been intended to be seen is a cardinal sin and the reason why Lucas needs to be summarily shot for screwing the fans one more time.

JEDIpartner
05-25-2006, 12:44 PM
This is probably why they are considering them "Bonus Materials". *shrug*

BTW, the picture would look something like this... CLICK HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/JEDIpartner/Star%20Wars/NonAna.jpg)

El Chuxter
05-25-2006, 02:03 PM
Call me totally and completely irreparably insane, but if you have a widescreen TV in the first place, chances are it's about as wide as you are tall, so what is the big deal with a couple of inches of black space around the picture? Whoop-dee-freakin'-doo! You've still got a nice big widescreen presentation of the OG OT (as Caesar calls it). Considering that even six months ago the man swore they'd never be released at all, ever, period, end of discussion, why can't we all just be happy that we're getting non-bootleg versions of the damned things at all?

Rogue II
05-25-2006, 02:08 PM
Call me totally and completely irreparably insane, but if you have a widescreen TV in the first place, chances are it's about as wide as you are tall, so what is the big deal with a couple of inches of black space around the picture? Whoop-dee-freakin'-doo! You've still got a nice big widescreen presentation of the OG OT (as Caesar calls it). Considering that even six months ago the man swore they'd never be released at all, ever, period, end of discussion, why can't we all just be happy that we're getting non-bootleg versions of the damned things at all?

Because Star Wars fanboys are never happy? :D

JEDIpartner
05-25-2006, 02:38 PM
And, really... who cares? ;)

James Boba Fettfield
05-25-2006, 03:19 PM
You are missing the point.

Not sure who that was directed at, but I was agreeing with you. My point was that in 2006's DVD standards, anamorphic is the only way to go. These days studios will catch flak for releasing non-anamorphic transfers, but in the early years of DVD anamorphic wasn't a big concern for many hence my 1998 comparison (perhaps I should have said '97).

As for people who don't mind it, well, good for you, but don't crap on those of us who like our widescreen titles anamorphic. It's not about finding things to whine about because that's our nature. It's about wanting to see these releases given a decent and competent treatment on DVD. As for them being bonus materials (which they are labeled), they sure are making it a point to mainly market these babies as being the unaltered trilogy. You'd think since it's their main selling point for offering the trilogy on DVD for the third time that they'd give the reasons for rebuying the package the treatment they deserve.

JEDIpartner
05-25-2006, 04:03 PM
You know this will just give him the option to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-release this in 3 years with the anamorphic versions that everyone is clamouring to get and he says he isn't putting out. After all this time, you should know the man and his M.O. He types with a sledgehammer-- how is that subtle? :p

James Boba Fettfield
05-25-2006, 04:10 PM
Man, JP, that would be (while I'd almost expect it at this point) some serious salt in the wounds. Especially after saying things like:


As you may know, an enormous amount of effort was put into digitally restoring the negatives for the Special Editions. In one scene alone, nearly 1 million pieces of dirt had to be removed, and the Special Editions were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.

So many fans have requested the original movies, we wanted to find a way to bring them to you. But since these movies do not represent George's artistic vision, we could not put the extraordinary time and resources into this project as we did with the Special Editions. The 1993 Laserdisc masters represented the best source for providing the original versions as DVD bonus material. Although these are non-anamorphic versions, they do preserve the original widescreen composition of the movies.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans – now or in the future – to restore the earlier versions.

Sincerely,
Lynne Hale
publicity@lucasfilm.com

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7025852&postcount=1014

KH, take note of this email so you can use it in your next "Lies" thread.

JediTricks
05-25-2006, 04:14 PM
Chux, screen width is not the real issue, it's screen height. Most HD/widescreen TVs on the market have big numbers only because they use the old diagonal measuring which gives a misleadingly-larger number, so a 27" HDTV is almost twice as *short* as my regular 27" TV, thus even a 40" HDTV is only around as tall as my 27" TV. So think of an HDTV that's the equivelent of my 27" tall TV, that HDTV would be expensive but not outrageously impossible for most of us to consider. How would that play out then? Let's look...


(the following attachments are all clickable for full-size)


13786

The green represents the full HDTV 16x9 screen display.

13784
The orange represents how a normal TV signal at 4x3 fits into this HDTV screen.

13783
The blue represents how a normal TV signal displays a 16x9 widescreen letterboxed movie onto this HDTV screen.

13782
The red represents how a widescreen letterboxed movie shows a movie with shot in a wide ratio such as Star Wars' 2.35x1. The movie's true ratio is even wider than regular widescreen and wider than HDTV, so it gets smaller.

13787
Here's everything put together.

(continued...)

JediTricks
05-25-2006, 04:24 PM
(...continued from previous)

13788
Using the attachment supplied by JP, I mocked up how the actual movie would look on an HDTV under non-anamorphic conditions. As you can see, this is no slight problem, the movie is taking up less than HALF the screen.



Now, you're probably asking yourself why we who have regular 4x3 TVs should care about all this, we're not losing as much of our screens after all. It's because of visual quality, anamorphic transfers pack as much visual data as possible into each frame because they're not devoting usable data space to empty black bars the way non-anamorphic transfers do.



(BTW, I can't believe Lucas really ruined the masters, the whole point of the Special Editions was to SALVAGE the Star Wars master print and now it's gone forever!!! I know I said it was likely, but I never really thought he'd go and do something that foolish and selfish.)

Rogue II
05-25-2006, 04:41 PM
My HDTV has an option to adjust picture. There are 4 different settings. Will that compensate for some of the size?

JediTricks
05-25-2006, 04:42 PM
My HDTV has an option to adjust picture. There are 4 different settings. Will that compensate for some of the size? Yes and no, it will stretch the image out to fill the full width of the screen, but it will be a magnification of the original DVD image so it will be heavily pixelated (that's not exactly accurate terminology, it will have pixel breaks in between each line, so it'll be broken up like you were sitting WAY too close).

James Boba Fettfield
05-25-2006, 04:43 PM
There's nothing to stop someone from zooming in on the picture so it fills more of the screen, but like zooming in on any image it'll lose quality.

JON9000
05-25-2006, 04:48 PM
At this point, we have reached the point of diminishing returns for me, and hence I will not be purchasing the OSOT. I'll stick to my VHS tapes if I'm ever really feeling nostalgic. They are in Dolby Surround Sound THX and have a decent, if not spectacular picture.

JBFF is right- they are marketing these as OSOT, not just a bonus disk.

Woo-hoo, a good reason not to spend a C-note

Rogue II
05-25-2006, 04:59 PM
Yes and no, it will stretch the image out to fill the full width of the screen, but it will be a magnification of the original DVD image so it will be heavily pixelated (that's not exactly accurate terminology, it will have pixel breaks in between each line, so it'll be broken up like you were sitting WAY too close).

That kind of what I expected. The only time I have messed with the feature so far is to watch the NFL Network. Every other station I watch there is not problem seeing the bottom news scroll. With the NFL Network, the bottom half of the news scroll gets cut off (and probably an equal portion of the top of the screen). I'm not too worried about how the DVD will look. I'm sure it will look better than my VHS full screen copy of the unaltered OT, especially since I don't have a VCR hooked up to that TV.

JediTricks
05-25-2006, 05:03 PM
JBF is right about the image quality going though, I considered only the technical issue where it gets all them pixel breaks, yet the image quality does get weaker too (at least on all the HDTVs I've seen that use the magnify/zoom feature).

With this being the '92 transfer, I sorta doubt we'll ever see the Original OT in any higher-quality HDDVD format.

seanmcfripp
05-26-2006, 08:19 AM
JT covered this pretty well already, but if anyone's interested in an even more detailed version of the explanation, give this a read:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/guest_editorials/neilbulk_anamorphic.htm

And while you're there, I re-urge you to check out T'Bone's editorial:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/editorials/original_original_trilogy_dvds.htm

Sorry if posting these links violates any forum rules.

scruffziller
05-26-2006, 05:32 PM
Won't matter to me because this is how I will be watching them.:thumbsup: :D

seanmcfripp
05-26-2006, 07:50 PM
Bob Ross has a big tv.