PDA

View Full Version : Vehicle discussion thread



LusiferSam
05-21-2006, 07:04 PM
This is more or less a continuation of the thread of the same name I started while in exile. For those that have forgotten or not read it here's the link (http://www.swcollecting.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=441).

Is it just me or did ESB get the short end of the stick in terms of vehicles? Some of the lamest vehicles of the vintage line came out of ESB. For example the Twin Cloud Car, Rebel Transport, and Vader's Star Destroyer (which is technical a playset, but that's for other discussion) are all terrible. Vader's Star Destroyer tries and fail at everything. The only place it comes close is with the meditation chamber. The Rebel Transport is better. It looks like Kenner tried really hard here, but the end of the day it sucks. Is it a vehicle or carry case? What's up with the guns? Or how that goof escape hatch? And the Cloud Car? Well I really don't like the Cloud Car. It is what it is. Kenner did a good job of making something (a lame something) out of nothing.

Slave 1 and the AT-ST are in the between. Slave 1 would be a who cares vehicle if it were not for Boba Fett. It rides on Fett's coat tail, which brings up the next point. About the only cool thing Slave 1 had going for it is the carbonite encased Han. The Scout Walker is pretty cool. But I think it owns 90% that to ROTJ. Without ROTJ the Scout Walker would be more of an EU vehicle and likely rate lower in my mind. It's 2 second cameo in ESB is just too short and it doesn't really do anything memorable.

That really only leaves the AT-AT and Snow Speeder. Both of which I think are great vehicles. The Snow Speeder is pretty accurate and has some great features. About the only thing is needs is a longer string. The AT-AT kicks serious ***. Enough said.

Kidhuman
05-21-2006, 10:51 PM
I dont htink ESB got the short end. They had there fair share of good vehicles. The AT-AT(which I didnt have but friends did) was awesome. I didnt have the snowspeeder either, but didnt care for it. I do want one now though. I loved the Cloud Car. I always liked the design of it. I dont have mine anymore but would love a remake of it. Hopefully Hasbro gets smart and releases this next eyar for the 30th annivesary.

The transport I always viewed as a carry case. I do believe it was marketed that way. Slave 1 was a 2 nd vehicle much like the AT-ST in ESB. The only reason I wanted it was for the Carbonite Han, but alas never got one either.

LusiferSam
05-22-2006, 12:15 AM
The transport I always viewed as a carry case. I do believe it was marketed that way.
The box says Vehicle. But you're right about the marketing of as a carrying case. It seems like a little of both. A bit like the laser rifle case, a carrying case that's more than just a case.

JediTricks
05-22-2006, 02:53 PM
I think part of the problem is that ESB doesn't really have that many new vehicles to show off, the AT-AT was a major piece and Kenner did pretty much everything they needed to with the toy. The Snowspeeder is another one that features heavily in the movie and the toy is probably the most accurate vehicle of the entire vintage line.

The AT-ST is in the background but the toy covers what was shown in the movie pretty well, it's a decent support toy. The Star Destroyer is a joke, no doubt. The Rebel Transport is a background vehicle and I think Kenner did the right thing by selling it as a carry case rather than a very boring vehicle, I never had one so I can't speak to its fun potential, but it looked sorta like the movie version.

Slave I is probably the 3rd in line of ESB vehicles, I have the SOTE Hasbro one, it's the same except for paint apps I believe. The outside is good, the inside is not so good, and the flight chair gimmick is kinda lame. Still, it's not bad, just not as good as the Snowspeeder and AT-AT.

The Cloud Car is a minor vehicle in ESB, Kenner making this shows how little they had to work with. This is the only vintage vehicle I actually own, the toy is visually accurate from the outside, but VERY hollow and boring on the inside, and the canopy hinge is a crappy design. This is similar to Slave I but without the credibility of doing anything interesting in the movie.

I think Kenner did ok with ESB vehicles, there wasn't more stuff they could cover, but having Slave I and the Cloud Car *so* empty inside really doesn't do much for those toys.

JON9000
05-22-2006, 03:12 PM
Overall, all the movies had their share of decent vehicles. The Cloud Car is probably the lamest of any vehicle out there, but the queen mother of all vehicles, the ATAT, more than makes up for it on a movie by movie comparison. I think ROTJ probably wins overall, however.

JediTricks
05-22-2006, 03:54 PM
ROTJ vehicles from Kenner are probably the best assortment of vehicles and the best likenesses of vehicles, the B-wing, A-wing, TIE Interceptor, Imperial Shuttle, Speederbike, Tatooine Skiff, they made pretty much everything in that movie that action figures could interact with, and the designs were all the best of the series - even now I think Hasbro doesn't always do as good a job as Kenner did.

LusiferSam
05-22-2006, 09:39 PM
The Rebel Transport is a background vehicle and I think Kenner did the right thing by selling it as a carry case rather than a very boring vehicle, I never had one so I can't speak to its fun potential, but it looked sorta like the movie version.
I know I keep going back and forth on this, but it's not really a carrying case. The cockpit, escape hatch, and rear gunner position really make it a vehicle. But the fact that most of the space is taken up by the tray for figures makes it very case like. On that note there are 40 pegs in there with four of them right next to the escape hatch and the top as a bunch of holes in it. That makes for a pretty bad carrying case in my book. Maybe as a kid I might have more fun this, but as an adult I don't see it. I really think it's just a lame vehicle.


Slave I is probably the 3rd in line of ESB vehicles, I have the SOTE Hasbro one, it's the same except for paint apps I believe. The outside is good, the inside is not so good, and the flight chair gimmick is kinda lame. Still, it's not bad, just not as good as the Snowspeeder and AT-AT.
You're correct about the SOTE Slave 1, the only difference between the two is the paint job (and 16 years). I will say the pilot's seat gizmo works and looks better with a vintage figure rather than a POTF2 figure (how many of the early POTF2 vehicles can you say that about though?). But my point is what you made. It's not bad, it's just not great either. And I think overall that's how I feel about the ESB vehicles.

JediTricks
05-23-2006, 01:55 PM
I was going to say the chair gimmick is flawed in concept, but I guess if you don't mind the "down" position facing the back of the ship, and why not really I suppose, we never saw different after all, it's ok.

I guess Kenner didn't want to waste money tooling interiors in minor vehicles for ESB. ;)

JON9000
05-24-2006, 09:53 AM
When I was a kid, you only saw Slave I actually fly for a few moments in Empire. I don't even remember Empire coming on HBO. Star Wars only came on Showtime. I had the toy for a long time before I figured out that it was supposed to fly upright.

JediTricks
05-24-2006, 02:00 PM
Slave I goes upright when it escapes Cloud City though, so there's 2 shots of it flying upright in the movie (tracking the Falcon is the other shot). Plus, it has a vertical flight handle and the toy flips Fett's cockpit chair upright and rotates the wings. Maybe you were just a slow kid. ;)

Hmm, I forgot that the Kenner Slave I mold has the same incorrect wing rotation that all the LEGO versions do, the wings rotate at the "shoulder" instead of the wing surface itself.

Da18thcustomizer
05-24-2006, 11:50 PM
Slave I goes upright when it escapes Cloud City though, so there's 2 shots of it flying upright in the movie (tracking the Falcon is the other shot). Plus, it has a vertical flight handle and the toy flips Fett's cockpit chair upright and rotates the wings. Maybe you were just a slow kid. ;)

Hmm, I forgot that the Kenner Slave I mold has the same incorrect wing rotation that all the LEGO versions do, the wings rotate at the "shoulder" instead of the wing surface itself.


*Runs off to watch for it in these scenes....*

Kidhuman
05-25-2006, 12:08 AM
No need to watch, he is correct.

vader121
05-25-2006, 11:26 AM
I actually played with the Slave 1 as a kid but not holding it upright. I knew later on that was correct but it looked so much cooler the other way. For a time there though I couldn't understand why the figure was laying down facing up or down while playing with it. Then realized it was wrong but kept doing it because it was that much cooler. Especially confusing in regards to this is the scene when they loaded Han in the cargo hold and the ship was straight.

In regards to the Rebel Transport i think what has been said is correct in that there wasn't much to pull from in regards to vehicles in ESB but I think the toy is cool. Especially since I don't yet have it. Also, i thought the cannons in the back of the ship were completely removeable and may have been meant as a neat add on that could be used in the defense of Hoth play.

The Cloud Car was a ship I also got as a kid and no it wasn't my favorite. I also thought and still think why they didn't make it have laser cannons or something more distinguishable than the molded gun-looking things on the edges. They could have at least made them a different color or put in some electronics to make them light up as in the Snowspeeder. I think though the coolest feature of the toy was the twin cockpit thing which wasn't done before maybe in all toy history (?). That was a little neat I guess.

As far as the Snowspeeder, At At, and At St go I thought these were the gems of ESB line. Tons of play value and pretty accurate. At At was the holy grail of Star Wars toys back in the day (replaced the Falcon). By far the best Vintage toy. I was also a big fan of the Snowspeeder and At St although I think I didn't get the At St until ROTJ.

The mini rigs were ok as neat little additions to play but a few of them were just dumb. IDT8 and the Regenerizer with all the hoses were the lamest.

In terms or playsets the Hoth ones were awesome. Although I could never understand why the Hoth Attack base playset had Snowtroopers on it. It should have been Rebel troopers. Even the gun included resembled the Hoth troopers gun more than the Tripod cannon. I also certainly used it as an add-on for my Hoth attack play. The one with the ION cannon was cool too but I really didn't need/like the Probot part. That could have been made into another playset but then again it probably wouldn't have sold well.

Banthaholic
05-25-2006, 07:35 PM
While I would say the inside of the Rebel Transport is a carrying case, the exterior makes it pretty darn cool sitting parked next to the other ships in the hangar bay.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-26-2006, 08:43 AM
I liked the Twin Pod Cloud Car. Most of the vehicles I had around the ESB toys time were one-seaters (most of the Mini Rigs, X-Wing, Darth's TIE, AT-ST, etc.), so you could send TWO characters on a mission.

A friend of mine had the Rebel Transport, and it seldom got played with, but IIRC it came with some backpacks like from the Survival Kit mail away offer.

Slave-1 was cool in any direction. I, too, liked the "flat" way of flying, but many of my friends lost or broke the ramp on the ship, so any figures or weapons stored inside would often get lost while playing (I still have my S-1, intact... it's worth a lot to me [said in non-Temura Morrison Fett voice :rolleyes: ]).

JON9000
05-26-2006, 09:17 AM
Slave I goes upright when it escapes Cloud City though, so there's 2 shots of it flying upright in the movie (tracking the Falcon is the other shot). Plus, it has a vertical flight handle and the toy flips Fett's cockpit chair upright and rotates the wings. Maybe you were just a slow kid. ;)

Actually, if you can remember it, Slave I had its own television commercial in which a kid demonstrates its proper flying position. Looking back, I think it just seemed to weird to me, although I really think it is cool now, the pilot having an experience sort of like being on the first row of a standup roller coaster (something everyone needs to experience)!

LusiferSam
05-26-2006, 08:56 PM
In regards to the Rebel Transport i think what has been said is correct in that there wasn't much to pull from in regards to vehicles in ESB but I think the toy is cool. Especially since I don't yet have it.
I use to think the same you did about the Rebel Transport before I bought one a couple of years ago. But then I bought one and came to realize how lame it really was. My guess is that be disappointed with it as well when you final get one (as to how much I can't say).


In terms or playsets the Hoth ones were awesome. Although I could never understand why the Hoth Attack base playset had Snowtroopers on it. It should have been Rebel troopers. Even the gun included resembled the Hoth troopers gun more than the Tripod cannon. I also certainly used it as an add-on for my Hoth attack play. The one with the ION cannon was cool too but I really didn't need/like the Probot part. That could have been made into another playset but then again it probably wouldn't have sold well.
I think you're mixing up the regular full sized playsets with the Micro Collection ones. Only the Micro Collection has had an Ion Cannon playset. I'm only half sold on the coolest of the Hoth playsets. First off we got four Hoth playsets and only one stupid Cloud City playset. :frus: Second, two of the playsets were the ones with plastic bases and card broad (my least favorite type). Land of the Jawas: Hoth Edition and Land of the Jawas: Hoth Edition Redux. I did like the Turret and Probot set despite the odd combination. The Imperial Attack Base we all know should have been Echo Base, but who cares it was cool.

Changing gears, JT's comment about Slave 1 got me thinking about the B-Wing. Did one ever see fly any way but "up right" in ROTJ? I've looked but have never seen it seen flying on it's side or upside down. That being case where did Kenner get the idea for the rotating cockpit? Cut footage, Lucas himself, or were they just looking to spice up a large vehicle?

Bel-Cam Jos
05-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Changing gears, JT's comment about Slave 1 got me thinking about the B-Wing. Did one ever see fly any way but "up right" in ROTJ? I've looked but have never seen it seen flying on it's side or upside down. That being case where did Kenner get the idea for the rotating cockpit? Cut footage, Lucas himself, or were they just looking to spice up a large vehicle?The poster that showed a few B-Wings flying around DS2 (it was kinda orange from all the explosions and lasers) had them flying as sideways lower-case 't's (with the cockpit to the left). And I seem to have a memory of a ship opening its attack foils when the ship's flying closed horizontally, in ROJ.

LusiferSam
05-27-2006, 05:34 PM
The poster that showed a few B-Wings flying around DS2 (it was kinda orange from all the explosions and lasers) had them flying as sideways lower-case 't's (with the cockpit to the left). And I seem to have a memory of a ship opening its attack foils when the ship's flying closed horizontally, in ROJ.
I don't remember that poster. I'll have to go and look it up. As for when the S foils open on all the ships at the start of the rebel attack, the B-Wing standing up (cockpit on the top). The closest I remember seeing the B-Wing to doing a rotation about the cockpit is when all the rebel fighter veer off sharply after Lando tells them the shield is still up. But the only thing the B-Wing does is bank hard.

JediTricks
05-28-2006, 02:52 AM
There was cut footage from ROTJ of the ships flying diagonally I believe, it was in the movie. Also, in the movie itself I believe we see them flying in both horizontal and vertical position.

Kidhuman
05-28-2006, 03:12 AM
I remember seeing it fly vertical in the movie, dont recall horizontal.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-28-2006, 11:20 PM
I don't remember that poster. I'll have to go and look it up.Here's a link to a jpeg of that shot of which I was speaking (I hope it works):
Link to B-Wing shot (http://www.30doradus.org/spaceships/images/b-wing.jpg)

mabudonicus
05-29-2006, 08:01 AM
I swear theres a scene in ROTJ (okay, a shot maybe) of the B-wings actually rotating almost 180 as they roll in to attack something- I am pretty sure about it cos I recall wondering (in the pre-vhs in 6 months days) where the HECK the b-wings even were in the film- I still only have a VHS copy so I ain't gonna check it out but I am almost 100% sure there's a quick scene of like 3 of them sorta peeling off and rolling

Slicker
05-29-2006, 08:46 AM
I just watched most of the end of ROTJ to see how the B-Wings look and for the most part they are completely vertical even in pre-attack position. The only time they're anywhere near horizontal is in the attempt to avoid colliding with the Death Stars shield. They go pratically horizontal while turning away.

LusiferSam
05-29-2006, 11:39 AM
Here's a link to a jpeg of that shot of which I was speaking (I hope it works):
Link to B-Wing shot (http://www.30doradus.org/spaceships/images/b-wing.jpg)
I still don't recalled that as a poster (thanks for the link by the way), but I do remember seeing this image before. It's used on the side of the B-Wing's box.


The only time they're anywhere near horizontal is in the attempt to avoid colliding with the Death Stars shield. They go pratically horizontal while turning away.
That's the same scene I'm thinking of. The problem with it is we only see it from the back. I can't tell whether the cockpit is staying fixed or not. It just looks like it's banking hard like all the other fighters.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-29-2006, 10:11 PM
I still don't recalled that as a poster (thanks for the link by the way), but I do remember seeing this image before. It's used on the side of the B-Wing's box.It was in the ROJ Compendium (#2, perhaps); there were 4 double-sided folded posters (Han close-up, Gam. Guard, Luke & Leia, AT-AT on Endor, Ewok, B-Wing, and... and some others) included.