PDA

View Full Version : What happened to the other Imperial ships at Endor?



JediTricks
06-02-2006, 11:38 PM
Remember that bigass fleet that was keeping the Rebels from escaping? Granted, the rebs took out the flagship, but there was still a LOT of Imperial Star Destroyers there before the Death Star II exploded, yet the movie acts like they just kinda disappeared.

Did they retreat like wusses, get caught in the blast wave, go all confused and crash into each other?

El Chuxter
06-03-2006, 12:29 AM
According to EU (and early EU at that: Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy), Pellaeon, the second highest ranking officer after Piett, called for a retreat after the Executor was destroyed and it became clear the Death Star itself was at risk.

JediTricks
06-03-2006, 02:33 AM
Retcon, for sure. Of course, in the EU, the Imp fleet causes trouble for years to come while ROTJ makes it feel like they just got blinked out (except for that 1 stormtrooper on Coruscant, he's the last bastion of the Galactic Empire... "Let's stop those rebelling civilians guys, come on! Wait, where did you guys go? Guys?" :evil: )

Slicker
06-03-2006, 03:39 AM
According to EU (and early EU at that: Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy), Pellaeon, the second highest ranking officer after Piett, called for a retreat after the Executor was destroyed and it became clear the Death Star itself was at risk.That makes sense and actually sounds like one of the few PU...er...I mean EU pieces that I could believe.

mabudonicus
06-03-2006, 10:19 AM
I thought they waited til the DS was blown up then trailed off in despair, never to be seen again????

jjreason
06-03-2006, 04:40 PM
The Thrawn Trilogy is actually pretty faithful, and it wasn't bogged down by having to conform to a bunch of pre-existing backstory - it started the whole EU thing. I'm no fan of EU, but I'd recommend those 3 books to anyone - even Jodi (my wife) read and enjoyed them.

JimJamBonds
06-03-2006, 04:55 PM
The Thrawn Trilogy is actually pretty faithful, and it wasn't bogged down by having to conform to a bunch of pre-existing backstory - it started the whole EU thing. I'm no fan of EU, but I'd recommend those 3 books to anyone - even Jodi (my wife) read and enjoyed them.

Yup Mr. Zahn is the one who we should blame for all the EU carp.

2-1B
06-03-2006, 05:07 PM
Zahn had me at hello but then lost me with Jorus C'Baoth, Luuke, and the Clone Emperor.

Clone Emperor being the most serious offense IMO. :)

El Chuxter
06-03-2006, 10:59 PM
The Clone Emperor was from the Dark Empire comic series, which also brought back Boba Fett, and which sort of sucked but had nifty, albeit inappropriate for SW, artwork by Cam Kennedy.

The name of the writer of Dark Empire escapes me, but he's the same guy who said that Greedo was ground up by Wuher to make a delicious beverage (likely involving dark chocolate and white milk) for Jabba, and the other bounty hunters held a funeral for his head a few weeks later.

Yeah, he's a douchebag.

Zahn didn't touch the Clone Emperor issue until much later, when his Hand of Thrawn Duology sort of wrapped up all of Bantam's books, and Mara Jade said she never believed it was actually the Emperor. Between the Delicious Greedo Beverage Guy and Mara Jade, I'm going with the smoking redhead.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-03-2006, 11:13 PM
Dark Empire was by Tom Veitch, and as was said, Cam Kennedy. Tom & Marth Veitch wrote "A Hunter's Fate: Greedo's Tale" in Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina. However, I think it was "Be Still My Heart: The Bartender's Tale" by David Bischoff that told of Greedo becoming a beverage ingredient.

El Chuxter
06-03-2006, 11:17 PM
Crap, you're right. Greedo's tale still kind of sucked, though. Overall, I think he took too much of a "Marvel superhero in the early 90s" approach with bringing everyone back from the dead rather than creating some new villains.

Here's my penance:
"Too shy-y-y
Hush, hush, eye to eye"
(BSLOS's don't get worse than that.)

2-1B
06-03-2006, 11:57 PM
The Clone Emperor was from the Dark Empire comic series

Whoops, my mistake. Sorry 'bout that. :D The Luuke thing still sucked, though. :crazed:

Looks like I owe a BSLOS myself, Chux, and I'll even top yours. ;)

"Wouldn't you agree, baby you and me, got a groovy kind of love?
(groovy kind of love)
we got a groovy kinda love."

JediTricks
06-04-2006, 05:28 PM
So we're just gonna go with "they left"?

El Chuxter
06-04-2006, 05:38 PM
I guess we have to? The Rebels certainly didn't destroy all of them.

Slicker
06-04-2006, 05:47 PM
I guess we have to? The Rebels certainly didn't destroy all of them.Yeah, I was gonna say that the rebels had no chance in hell of destroying all of those star destroyers. I would assume that since the command ship was lost that would be comparable to us losing an important headquarters so the communications between the ships may have been less than ideal so there would have been no plans for the imperials. It would have almost been every ship for himself if the battle were to have continued and with that it's possible that the rebels may have taken out more ships and the imps would have fled regardless.

mabudonicus
06-04-2006, 06:07 PM
Like I said and no-one noticed- they simply trailed off in despair, that's what I would have done after seeing the DS2 and the Executor blowed up like that, it's kinda what I always assumed, for real, when watching the film- like Stormtroopers taking off their armour and being all like The Fugitive....

And the smart ones took the Star Destroyers and sold 'em for scrap and parts and stuff, something like that made perfect sense to me, then they would be hunted down bit by bit and eradicated, barring any EU complications :beard:

JediTricks
06-04-2006, 06:29 PM
Like I said and no-one noticed- they simply trailed off in despair, that's what I would have done after seeing the DS2 and the Executor blowed up like that, it's kinda what I always assumed, for real, when watching the film...Except the Star Destroyers disappear before the DS2 is compromised.


I figure without the command ship, they would have started running into each other and been vulnerable to attadk, the Rebels would have tried to stop them from leaving since they'd still pose a threat. Instead, the Rebel fleet groups up between the DS2 and Endor and waits for the Falcon to fly out of a fireball before moving off, while the Imperial Fleet gets beamed into another dimension or something.

JimJamBonds
06-05-2006, 12:02 AM
Yeah, I was gonna say that the rebels had no chance in hell of destroying all of those star destroyers. I would assume that since the command ship was lost that would be comparable to us losing an important headquarters so the communications between the ships may have been less than ideal so there would have been no plans for the imperials. It would have almost been every ship for himself if the battle were to have continued and with that it's possible that the rebels may have taken out more ships and the imps would have fled regardless.

I'd think the Navy would have all sorts of redundency plans in place.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-05-2006, 01:01 AM
Maybe they all wanted to desert, but they were so afraid of Vader and the Emperor that they didn't dare. Now, with Vader's ship destroyed and the Death Star about to blow, they decided to get the f out of Dodge.

mabudonicus
06-05-2006, 03:02 PM
I think that's what I was saying, MSP, kinda, I mean, you would pretty much KNOW you were sunk, and the fear that was keeping you in line would be replaced with a new, different fear- PLUS if you take the whole Jedi/Sith thing into the OT, there would be a LOT of folks who figured that they would escape and rebuild the Empire in their own image- I always kinda imagined that once the battle between Vader and Luke started on the DS2, the "force disruption" might have even been enough to make some of the commanders start hastily erecting their own "save my butt" type plans
:beard:

Daz
06-05-2006, 03:02 PM
Don't ask me where I got this because I can't remember exactly but I got the impression that the Emperor had been keeping the fleet working at top efficiency for years with his powers and that when he died effiency dropped through the floor allowing the rebels to get the upper hand. If this explanation sounds familiar to anyone let me know where I got it from.:thumbsup:

Daz
06-05-2006, 03:13 PM
Another rationalisation would be that due to numerous purges ordered by the Emperor and enacted by Vader the Imperial fleet was sorely lacking in independant thinkers thus nobody was willing or able to step up to the plate when the time came.

JediTricks
06-05-2006, 05:20 PM
Don't ask me where I got this because I can't remember exactly but I got the impression that the Emperor had been keeping the fleet working at top efficiency for years with his powers and that when he died effiency dropped through the floor allowing the rebels to get the upper hand. If this explanation sounds familiar to anyone let me know where I got it from.:thumbsup:
That was in the Zahn trilogy, I believe.


My point was that the Imperial Fleet instead of defending the DS2 when the shield collapsed just disappeared - this should have been their last stand to defend the Emperor if nothing else, they didn't KNOW the DS2 was going to blow, or that the Emperor was going to be killed beforehand.

TheDarthVader
06-06-2006, 12:30 AM
I think knowing the DS is really at risk or seeing the Executor go down is a big enough morale downer to tuck tail and run.

LusiferSam
06-06-2006, 01:27 AM
My point was that the Imperial Fleet instead of defending the DS2 when the shield collapsed just disappeared - this should have been their last stand to defend the Emperor if nothing else, they didn't KNOW the DS2 was going to blow, or that the Emperor was going to be killed beforehand.
But is the Imperial Fleet really there to defend the Death Star? If the main laser is working, why wouldn't a good chuck of it's main defenses be operational too?

Slicker
06-06-2006, 07:23 AM
But is the Imperial Fleet really there to defend the Death Star? If the main laser is working, why wouldn't a good chuck of it's main defenses be operational too?The fleet wasn't there to defend the Death Star. They were there to keep the rebel fleet from escaping. Presumably so the DS could take care of them. It's even said in the movie.

Jargo
06-06-2006, 11:44 AM
I like to think they were on the far side of the DS and as it exploded or imploded or just ploded, it took out the bulk of the fleet. those lumbering star destroyers were all over he place not knowing how to deal because of the lack of command and the way the rebels attacked and split the imperial fleet apart. half the destroyers nearly destroy each other and the rest are just nonplussed because the rebels attack doesn't adhere to strtegy really.
So I'm going to say that the rebel hippies confoosed the imperials and they hung about and were caught in the blast while the remaining rebel hippies fled to safety. Though in reality all snub ships should have been destroyed in the blast rebel and imperial alike. The millenium falcon too. There again the B-wings did a fast disappearing act during the battle. I think the Mon Cal are just Wusses, doesn't Admiral ackbar call the retreat? and I bet those B-wings took off mid battle and fled. What happened to the Imperial Dignitaries too? They just sort of vanished. And I'd love to se a fan film where debris from the death star rains down on Endor and squishes Ewoks. and poisonous gasses filter into the atmosphere and cause a noxious fog that destroys the greenery leaving Endor a barren wasteland.

Not that it would make much difference to the death toll in star wars. A saga that treats genocide so glibly. "Oh my god the planets been destroyed - oh well never mind."

Slicker
06-06-2006, 03:42 PM
And I'd love to se a fan film where debris from the death star rains down on Endor and squishes Ewoks. and poisonous gasses filter into the atmosphere and cause a noxious fog that destroys the greenery leaving Endor a barren wasteland. I think that's already been covered by saying that there was some sort of protective shield or something over the planet that prevented the debris from falling to the planet.

It's typical EU.

JediTricks
06-06-2006, 05:39 PM
But is the Imperial Fleet really there to defend the Death Star? If the main laser is working, why wouldn't a good chuck of it's main defenses be operational too?The fleet was there to stop the rebels from leaving, but they're still the Imperial Navy, they're still supposed to defend their Emperor. The main turbolaser can take out the capital ships, but is ineffective against smaller fighters. The rest of the Death Star is only marginally effective against smaller fighters.



I like to think they were on the far side of the DS and as it exploded or imploded or just ploded, it took out the bulk of the fleet.That would have been cool to see, we see the Rebel fleet move towards the Endor moon, but having the Imperial fleet not move away from the DS2 and getting caught in the blast would have been awesome.

Still, this thing about the Imps getting split and confused by the Rebs doesn't really hold with what we saw, they were puffed up buffoons but they weren't so incompetent they couldn't hold their own. Only the SSD got taken out (well, a squad of B-wings made short work of an ISD but that got cut from the film) so they must have been doing something right during the battle.



I think the Mon Cal are just Wusses, doesn't Admiral ackbar call the retreat? He suggested retreat when they discovered the shield was still up, not an entirely unreasonable response since the whole point of the attack was the element of surprise and the shield being down. Later he ordered the fleet move away from the Death Star but that was just smart.

Jargo
06-06-2006, 06:08 PM
mmm that's a large chunk of rock to cover with a force shield. perhaps an area surrounding the shield generator that gets blown up would be shielded itself but once the generator has gone where's the power? the whole point of knocking out the shield generator is to disable Imperial shields to allow the attack.

EU sucks and not as much as letting hypespace members write their own hack backstories for movie extras. just saw that on the official site. Jeebus that's lame.

I digress. Actually of course it's a moon not a planet. According to the official star wars databank entry not the 'official' EU one, The sanctuary moon of Endor. One of nine such moons, with a large gaseous planet also named Endor at the centre of their orbit.
Now then, gaseous planet and large explosion, nine moons and a hell of a lot of gravity. large chunks of something are going to have fallen through the atmosphere and hit dirt somewhere on that sanctuary moon. even if the death star completely disintegrated then there would be parts of star destroyer, Mon Cal ships, fighter craft littering space around that moon. those would eventually fall into orbit and then eventually fall out of that orbit to the surface.

this is me rambling in a thinking aloud way btw. I'm not submiting this for microscopic analysis.

see I now like to think that the DS2 exploded taking the rest of the imperial fleet with it. debris rained down on the moons and the largest was drawn to the gas giant planet causing it to ignite and burn like a sun. thus reducing the nearby moons to dustballs. thus anihilating all life in the Endor system including ewoks, blurrgs, condor dragons, teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeks, and anything else. Which is entirely ironic as the weapon that never got to do it's damage for real took out an entire system. it's kinda poetic that way. which is why there is no episode seven because all the rebels and their friends were fried. :)

I once tried looking at a map of the star wars galaxy but there was so much EU poodoo on there I gave up.

OOh and yes, it would have been fantastic to see the imp fleet vaporised. as it stands i find the explosion of the death star quite weak in terms of actual dramatic impact. It's supposed to be the culmination of those years of fighting and toil and evil reign and it just sort of goes 'pop' and then there's some pretty lights. even the souped up SE version is the same. be cool to see some added footage showing the place ripping apart from the insides out and people being caught in the destruction. same as having views from Alderaan in ANH as the DS fires would make more impact.

jedi master sal
06-07-2006, 10:41 AM
Don't ask me where I got this because I can't remember exactly but I got the impression that the Emperor had been keeping the fleet working at top efficiency for years with his powers and that when he died effiency dropped through the floor allowing the rebels to get the upper hand. If this explanation sounds familiar to anyone let me know where I got it from.:thumbsup:

While that's the EU explanation, I'd agree in part with this. It's called "Battle Meditation." Once the Emperor was concentrated on Luke, the battle began to turn, then when he died it all went to hell. Also EU and as mentioned, Pelleon ordered the remaining ships to retreat. It's said in EU that several Star Destroyers were captured by the Rebels during the battle, though we do not see it.

I highly agree with those that say they'd like to see more scenes of the destruction of the DS from the inside as well as the destruction of the Imperial fleet. That would certainly help to tie things up there. Who knows maybe George will do this for the "3-D" editions...

TheDarthVader
06-07-2006, 01:42 PM
Now then, gaseous planet and large explosion, nine moons and a hell of a lot of gravity. large chunks of something are going to have fallen through the atmosphere and hit dirt somewhere on that sanctuary moon. even if the death star completely disintegrated then there would be parts of star destroyer, Mon Cal ships, fighter craft littering space around that moon. thossee I now like to think that the DS2 exploded taking the rest of the imperial fleet with it. debris rained down on the moons and the largest was drawn to the gas giant planet causing it to ignite and burn like a sun. thus reducing the nearby moons to dustballs. thus anihilating all life in the Endor system including ewoks, blurrgs, condor dragons, teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeks, and anything else. Which is entirely ironic as the weapon that never got to do it's damage for real took out an entire system. it's kinda poetic that way. which is why there is no episode seven because all the rebels and their friends were fried. :)

This guy has lost his gord. What on earth are you talking about?! :confused:

JimJamBonds
06-07-2006, 03:36 PM
I think he is talking about when the DS2 exploded it was so huge that it took out the fleet.

Jargo
06-07-2006, 04:45 PM
This guy has lost his gord. What on earth are you talking about?! :confused:Oh i lost that years ago. I was just constructing my own missing pieces. Building a more believable epilogue to the saga in my mind in order to help me block out anything that the EU says transpired after the return of the jedi ends.

another thing, why in space, does the shockwave from the explosion only travel in a linear way. wouldn't it have sent out shockwave in all directions? On the sanctuary moon they look to the sky and see a ball of flaming destruction. yet i space that ring of debris and expanding disruption is kust like a flat thing. isn't that a bit odd? or is it that it's like a rainbow, only seen in certain circumstances and in certain light and conditions.

sorry not trying to go off topic but it made me think about that thinking about the explosion taking out the imp fleet.

El Chuxter
06-07-2006, 05:51 PM
The shockwave is linear because some idjit at ILM wanted to show off what he calls his "mad CG skills."

Jargo
06-07-2006, 09:57 PM
Oh him? Yeah total douchebag. Pfff - forget him. History. Ne'er work in this town again.

JimJamBonds
06-08-2006, 12:05 AM
What about that huge fireball in airless space?

Jargo
06-08-2006, 10:09 AM
well fusion does give off a burning fiery glow. otherwise we'd have no stars, but tiny spaceships blowing up in fireballs does seem odd. as does the look of the DS2 explosion as seen from the sanctuary moon. I would imagine with atmospherics hindering a clear view it would look more like a whiteout and then just a glow. Unless the atmosphere polarises light.

Another thought i've had about the Imp fleet is that the force of the DS2 exploding sent the ships reeling and tumbling out into open space where they were scattered and damaged. kind of like the force an ocean wave has on pebbles and small detritus.

I guess this is one of those puzzles like why stormtroopers have such bad aim. or why there's flammable material like liquid fuel on Jabba's sail barge when it relies on repulsorlift. which is more like electromagnetic. The sail barge gun would surely have just punched holes in the thing. Annyhoo. I'm leaving this thread now otherwise I'll just go on and on.

JediTricks
06-08-2006, 10:23 PM
Who knows maybe George will do this for the "3-D" editions...Not likely, ILM isn't involved with the 3-D conversion process, that's handled by another firm, In Three, who needs to cut out every element and give it "depth", so changes to the films would seriously slow down that process.



another thing, why in space, does the shockwave from the explosion only travel in a linear way. wouldn't it have sent out shockwave in all directions? Because ILM did it in Star Trek VI first and it got huge accolades there with the Praxis ring. I guess nobody cared that it made no sense and was 6 years old at that point.

As for the spherical explosion wave, it should have, but there actually is a semi-practical possible reasoning for it, the DS's propulsion is derived from the center ring of the DS, the equatorial trench, both hyperdrive and sublight, so it would have the most energy at that ring, and when the DS exploded the ring expelled that energy into a ring-shaped explosion.


I believe a plausible explanation for why ships blow up into a fireball is that they have oxygen for life support which is consumed in the explosion as it mixes with fuel. Also, the reason we hear sound in space in these movies could be because of the gasses from ships flying by being slammed up against the hulls of other ships, specificially the ship the audience is focusing on (we're hearing what they might be hearing inside).

Jargo
06-09-2006, 06:32 PM
plausible regarding the ring I suppose. hadn't considered that. I didn't think the ships used liquid fuel but then I remembered the scene in ROS that was cut. obi and manakin being chased by SBD's through the fuel tank. I guess I just always assumed they all ran on crystal energy or some sort of nuclear like fusion.. never occured to me that they had internal combustion engines. wonder what the hp per gallon of a star destroyer is?