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Dominic Guglieme
06-06-2006, 07:23 PM
If JT wants to move this thread, so be it. But, given the direction it is likely to go, I figure it should be here, and want to be cautious.


Episode 3 and Ethics:

Episode 3, and to a lesser extent the other SW films, have a pretty clear "sunshine is the best disinfectant" theme" running through them. Paranoia and distrust feed the imbalance of the dark-side. Think about it.

Just as a starting question: What if Windu trusted Anakin to go to the Chancellor's office? Then, would the Chancellor have been able to kill 3 members of the Council, or would have have had to "play nice"?


And, is Lucas right on this point? Is the truth the best medicine, or are too many people unable to handle it maturely?

JediTricks
06-08-2006, 08:30 PM
Politics are ok when discussed in the context of the movies, so not only is this allowed, but it hopefully will lead to some creative and thoughtful debate. The politics threads that go in the Rancor Pit are like "George Bush is failing at ____", while something like "Lucas intended to make a parallel between Palpatine and Bush when he has the Emp do ____" is not (unless the SW aspect is merely a thin pretense :p).

Personally, I think if Mace had trusted Anakin in Ep 3 to come along, either Palpatine wouldn't have attacked the Jedi in fear of losing Anakin's favor, or Anakin would have witnessed the true evil of Palpatine and stayed with the Jedi side (palps might try to pull the Padme card, but with multiple Jedi acting as peer pressure, I doubt Anakin would have let that affect him the way it did when it was just Mace vs Palps and Anakin came in late).

I think that while truth is always best overall, it may not be the best thing for the individual at that time, but that's part of living with lies. I don't know what Anakin would have thought had the Jedi learned of his marriage to Padme, they probably would have kicked him out I suppose since that level of attachment is the very thing which DOES lead to his downfall - but that's only a guess.

DarkArtist
06-09-2006, 12:31 AM
I had a similiar post about the ethics of the dark side. In my post I stated that perhaps people have been wrong about the Sith since we are only seeing one side of the story. Lucas tells the tale the way he sees the battle, light vs dark, good vs evil. However what if what we are seeing is wrong ?

My thinking is this, according to Palpatine "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace." Again, the statement can be open to the follwing: Are the Sith the true evil that they are made to be or is it all a lie. Were the Sith an evil race that actually bought about destruction and hence were destroyed and replaced by the Jedi.

Also, according to Anakin while talking to Padme, " Together you and I can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be." Perhaps his intentions are actually for the good and not motivated by the Sith or the dark side.

In answer to your idea, my feelings are this, if Anakin had been at the fight the entire time, I think the fight would have went the same way. Looking at the movie, we see Palpatine sitting in his office when four Jedi come strolling in and try to arrest him. Palpatine accuses the Jedi of treason to the Republic. The Jedi accuse Palpatine of similiar charges. Now throw Anakin into the myst, would Anakin have seen it in the same light he saw when he walked in on Mace Windu about the cut down Palpatine ?

My thing is this, Anakin knows Palpatine is a Sith Lord, wants to kill Palpatine yet knows that it would be best for Palpatine to be arrested. Tells Windu of this discovery. My question is what did Anakin think when he saw the other three slain Jedi ?

JimJamBonds
06-09-2006, 12:33 AM
Obi said it best: its all about perspective. ;)

Dominic Guglieme
06-14-2006, 08:59 PM
I wager the Chancellor just wanted power.

But, my thinking is that Anakin's presence would have restrained the Chancellor. He would be unlikely to be the one to provoke the Jedi in front of Anakin. And, Anakin would be able to credibly argue for incarceration in that case.

The dead Jedi were likely of little concern to Anakin. He knew there was a Sith in the mix. And, being a selfish twerp, as not bothered by that.

tagmac
06-15-2006, 07:00 PM
Anakin likely never saw the three dead Jedi. they were killed in Palpatine's private chamber, which Anakin never had a reason to enter, as the fight was in Palpatine's public office when he arrived.

El Chuxter
06-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Depends on whether you go by just what's onscreen or the book. In the book, he not only saw them, but thought to himself regarding The Mighty GrinTM on Kit's dead face, as if he found death funny.

Rocketboy
06-16-2006, 12:45 AM
Depends on whether you go by just what's onscreen or the book. In the book, he not only saw them, but thought to himself regarding The Mighty GrinTM on Kit's dead face, as if he found death funny.I had a smile when the grin died also.

JediTricks
06-16-2006, 03:49 AM
I thought the only way into Palpatine's chamber (besides the elevator in the middle, which was retracted at the time) was through that antechamber where the dead Jedi lay.

basschick
06-17-2006, 06:14 PM
if people had trusted anakin more in the first place, would he have turned out to be a more balanced person in general? he seemed like a pretty level headed little kid - despite his occasional need to yell "yippee!"

Slicker
06-17-2006, 06:27 PM
I had a similiar post about the ethics of the dark side. In my post I stated that perhaps people have been wrong about the Sith since we are only seeing one side of the story. Lucas tells the tale the way he sees the battle, light vs dark, good vs evil. However what if what we are seeing is wrong ?

My thinking is this, according to Palpatine "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace." Again, the statement can be open to the follwing: Are the Sith the true evil that they are made to be or is it all a lie. Were the Sith an evil race that actually bought about destruction and hence were destroyed and replaced by the Jedi.

Also, according to Anakin while talking to Padme, " Together you and I can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be." Perhaps his intentions are actually for the good and not motivated by the Sith or the dark side.

In answer to your idea, my feelings are this, if Anakin had been at the fight the entire time, I think the fight would have went the same way. Looking at the movie, we see Palpatine sitting in his office when four Jedi come strolling in and try to arrest him. Palpatine accuses the Jedi of treason to the Republic. The Jedi accuse Palpatine of similiar charges. Now throw Anakin into the myst, would Anakin have seen it in the same light he saw when he walked in on Mace Windu about the cut down Palpatine ?

My thing is this, Anakin knows Palpatine is a Sith Lord, wants to kill Palpatine yet knows that it would be best for Palpatine to be arrested. Tells Windu of this discovery. My question is what did Anakin think when he saw the other three slain Jedi ?I've long thought that as well DA. It's probably best left to another thread but our concept of "good" and "evil" depends on which side you're on. We think Osama is evil yet he thinks we're evil. We both have our reasons for it yet that's how it goes.

Dominic Guglieme
06-19-2006, 07:36 PM
I am assuming that Lucas is telling the story accurately. Anakin is clearly shown in Episodes 2 and 3 to be selfish. (Does he once consider quitting the Order for Padme'?)


Basschick hits the point I was getting at. Frankly, I think that if the Jedi had treated the kid a bit better, he would not have been at all as vulnerable to the Chancellor.

And, JT, if I recall the film correctly, Mace and Chancellor fought there way to another room, meaning Anakin may simply have not passed through the room with the dead Jedi.

2-1B
06-20-2006, 01:04 AM
I am assuming that Lucas is telling the story accurately. Anakin is clearly shown in Episodes 2 and 3 to be selfish. (Does he once consider quitting the Order for Padme'?)

He sure did,
"I'm tired of all this deception. I don't care if they know we're married."

JediTricks
06-20-2006, 06:20 PM
And, JT, if I recall the film correctly, Mace and Chancellor fought there way to another room, meaning Anakin may simply have not passed through the room with the dead Jedi.They fought in the antechamber and took it into the private office, but that's the same antechamber Anakin had to pass through to get to the office.

Dominic Guglieme
06-20-2006, 07:33 PM
If I recall, the fight started in a room that the 3 Jedi entered through a hallway. (I have not seen any cutaways of the building, thought they likely exist.) The fight then went back out, through what I assume is that above mentioned hallway.


And, for all of Anakin's coniving, and posturing, he is hardly fessing up to Yoda.

JediTricks
06-20-2006, 09:18 PM
Alright, I cued it up, and you're right, the Jedi get killed in Palps' office, the fight goes through the antechamber, and ends in Palps' apartment, Anakin comes through the door of the apartment and never passes the bodies.