PDA

View Full Version : "But you'll die..."



Bel-Cam Jos
06-16-2006, 10:26 PM
Something just hit me (pncchtt! :hurt: ) the other day. Luke has dragged his dad through the Death Star, and stops at a shuttle. Anakin/Vader tells him to "help [him] take this mask off." Then, Luke says "But you'll die." My questions, how does Luke know that? And why does he accept that fact so readily?

Vader: "Help me take... this mask off."
Luke: "But you'll die."
Vader: "For someone so powerful in the Force, you won't even try to save me?"
Luke: "Uh... lemme get a moist towel then."
Vader: "Should'a tried to get the sister to help me..."

Seriously, the questions above are the focus of this thread.

Slicker
06-16-2006, 10:47 PM
I think it may be a well known fact that the helmet and the armor keep Vader alive. By removing the helmet Vaderakin will have to try and breath without help (you'll notice that he somewhat struggles) and he can't do it for long.

JimJamBonds
06-16-2006, 11:56 PM
I think he knows based on this quote:

"He's more machine then man now."

- Obers

JediTricks
06-17-2006, 02:07 PM
Luke was just guessing, he said that because he knew Anakin was hideous underneath and didn't want to look at him. :p

stillakid
06-17-2006, 03:15 PM
Something just hit me (pncchtt! :hurt: ) the other day. Luke has dragged his dad through the Death Star, and stops at a shuttle. Anakin/Vader tells him to "help [him] take this mask off." Then, Luke says "But you'll die." My questions, how does Luke know that? And why does he accept that fact so readily?

Vader: "Help me take... this mask off."
Luke: "But you'll die."
Vader: "For someone so powerful in the Force, you won't even try to save me?"
Luke: "Uh... lemme get a moist towel then."
Vader: "Should'a tried to get the sister to help me..."

Seriously, the questions above are the focus of this thread.


Because the Emperor just happened to have the newest life support suit available from Christian Dior hanging around, I'm sure that Luke would have been more than aware of what that costume was intended as. Twenty years later, who knows what the style would be like if, say, Luke got cut down and was in need of a super evil suit. Probably something more streamlined and sexy.

El Chuxter
06-17-2006, 03:22 PM
There was a warning label on the helmet: "WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die."

JediTricks
06-17-2006, 04:07 PM
There was a warning label on the helmet: "WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die." What we didn't realize in the movie is that the belt box on the front of the armor looks like a speaker because it is, and that's exactly what it's saying every 3 minutes in the loudest voice possible. :p


VADER: Luke, help me take this mask off.

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

LUKE: ... but you'll die.

VADER: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look on you with-

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

VADER: What was I saying? Anyway, tell your sister, you were... URK!

LUKE: Tell her what? Father?? FATHER?!?

VADER lies dead on the shuttle ramp. LUKE remains still for a moment in sorrow.

BELT: ...WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

LUKE begins to weep.

---

VADER: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.

LUKE: He told me enough, he told me YOU killed him!

VADER: No, I am your-

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

VADER: Damnit!!!

stillakid
06-17-2006, 04:09 PM
Seriously, Luke knew what the F the suit was for. Although the galaxy had nutcases running around with the flair for the dramatic like Boba Fett, Vader clearly was encased in this thing for his health and well-being. Pulling the mask was like pulling the plug on life support.

El Chuxter
06-17-2006, 04:22 PM
In EU (the ROTJ novelization), Obi-Wan provides more detail about why Vader wears the suit.

basschick
06-17-2006, 04:45 PM
then why couldn't they leave the mask on till they got another breathing option on the guy? then maybe he wouldn't have died and we'd have another 20 years of anakin - the new older anakin - hanging around.

of course, that would have ruined the dramatic impact of the movie, which did have a LOT of dramatic impact...

Slicker
06-17-2006, 05:10 PM
Also, I think Vader knew that he was gonna die regardless (hence his "nothing can stop that now") and he truly wanted to see his son for the "first" time.

Although it could've been a ploy by Vader as well. He knew what he was responsible for in the past. Do you really think that the Rebels would just let him become a good guy without some sort of tribunal? Vader may have had Luke "kill" him by taking the mask off.

jjreason
06-17-2006, 06:50 PM
I think the suit was telling him it was failing - we saw all those sensors fire up in ROTS when the bucket was going on - and he knew there was no way to survive. He wanted to see Luke - and maybe more importantly, have Luke see him.... to really hammer home the point of what might happen if he ever flirted with turning to the dark side.

Jargo
06-17-2006, 07:48 PM
I think he just farted and the suit had stoped working after the cables got severed when his hand was detached..

jjreason
06-18-2006, 12:44 AM
Hehehehe...... the truth comes out - Anakin needed some fresh air!!! lol

Bel-Cam Jos
06-18-2006, 01:45 PM
What we didn't realize in the movie is that the belt box on the front of the armor looks like a speaker because it is, and that's exactly what it's saying every 3 minutes in the loudest voice possible. :p


VADER: Luke, help me take this mask off.

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

LUKE: ... but you'll die.

VADER: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look on you with-

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

VADER: What was I saying? Anyway, tell your sister, you were... URK!

LUKE: Tell her what? Father?? FATHER?!?

VADER lies dead on the shuttle ramp. LUKE remains still for a moment in sorrow.

BELT: ...WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

LUKE begins to weep.

---

VADER: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.

LUKE: He told me enough, he told me YOU killed him!

VADER: No, I am your-

BELT: WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!

VADER: Damnit!!!High-larious! High lariot-ous! Hi, Larry and us!

Location: Executor's Meditation Chamber
Vader: "Ahh... finally a time to relax, stop choking Imperial baffoons, not worrying about Corellian freighters and asteroids, no Emperor and kneeling... Just unhook this latch and-"

Belt: "WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!"

Vader: "Grr! Don't you think I know that by now?"

Belt: "WARNING! Do not remove or wearer will die!"

Vader: "Could there be anything more annoying than this?"

(Vader has a Force vision of Luke at Toche Station when they're out of power convertors)

Vader: "NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

JediTricks
06-19-2006, 12:34 AM
then why couldn't they leave the mask on till they got another breathing option on the guy? then maybe he wouldn't have died and we'd have another 20 years of anakin - the new older anakin - hanging around.

of course, that would have ruined the dramatic impact of the movie, which did have a LOT of dramatic impact...Vader's line after "but you'll die" is "Nothing can stop that now", the damage inflicted from the trashing he got from Luke and then the Emperor's lightning took its toll, the suit was failing (the sound had changed significantly) and his body was badly damaged.



High-larious! High lariot-ous! Hi, Larry and us!At least SOMEONE appreciates my humor! I was in tears from laughing when I wrote that mofo.

El Chuxter
06-19-2006, 12:44 AM
I appreciate your humor, but I believe you misquoted me with BCJ's words. :p

JediTricks
06-19-2006, 01:15 AM
Why, whatever do you mean? Aren't you and BCJ just 2 sides of the same person? :p (this is what happens when you have too many windows open)

Bel-Cam Jos
06-19-2006, 12:52 PM
Why, whatever do you mean? Aren't you and BCJ just 2 sides of the same person? :p (this is what happens when you have too many windows open)Well, we both sound just like Temuera Morrison... :o

But, my second question is the one I have more interest in: why did Luke accept that so readily? He just saved his dad, then decides to not even try to save him. Seems like Luke is doubting his abilities, to not make the attempt.

(p.s. Yes, I know about the emotional, wrap-up-the-story aspect to vader's redemption through his ultimate sacrifice, I'm just wondering outside of that)

2-1B
06-19-2006, 01:23 PM
Uh, Luke DID say "I've got to save you" and Ani answers with "you already have." :confused:

Rogue II
06-19-2006, 01:35 PM
But, my second question is the one I have more interest in: why did Luke accept that so readily? He just saved his dad, then decides to not even try to save him. Seems like Luke is doubting his abilities, to not make the attempt.


Imperial Shuttles don't have a first aid kits. Besides, can you imagine trying to perform CPR on Darth Vader? When Luke goes to push on Vader's chest and accidentally some of those buttons. Luke would just be praying he didn't hit the equivalent ctrl-alt-delete.

BTW, is it just me, or does that Entertainment Earth Darth Vader Bust banner over on the right look more like Arnold as Mr. Freeze instead of Hayden Christensen?

JimJamBonds
06-19-2006, 01:44 PM
I think Luke would have done more but the need to get out of Dodge hurried him along. Even with that inmind he pulled him into the shuttle (why didn't he just use the force???) so he could get a proper send off.

stillakid
06-19-2006, 01:55 PM
Well, we both sound just like Temuera Morrison... :o

But, my second question is the one I have more interest in: why did Luke accept that so readily? He just saved his dad, then decides to not even try to save him. Seems like Luke is doubting his abilities, to not make the attempt.

(p.s. Yes, I know about the emotional, wrap-up-the-story aspect to vader's redemption through his ultimate sacrifice, I'm just wondering outside of that)


As you mention, there is more going on there than just the physical death. Vader's life-support system just took a massive hit from an electrical storm. We are to assume from his labored breathing right after that the system has been severely compromised. Repairable? Most likely not, but of course we can't know that for sure. Sebastakin doesn't seem to think so, so we shouldn't either.

Beyond that, Luke would be more than aware of what the ramifications of bringing Vader back to the Rebellion alive would be. Luke may "know" that Anakin's soul has been "saved," but the Rebellion won't give a sh*. Even if Luke could somehow fix the life support system and get Vader to safety, he would be merely delivering the old man into turmoil for the rest of his days. Luke not only saved his father's soul, he saves him from further trouble by "letting" him die then and there.

Luke wasn't doubting his abilities in the least. For that matter, he has no grounds to believe that his "abilities" would be able to save Anakin's life at all. Despite the nonsense of the Prequels to suggest that a Force user can save lives, we never get to witness it either. Anakin became a martyr in order to save Luke's life (who laid himself out as a martyr first). He knew he would die but did it anyway. In that action, he saved his own soul but destroyed his life. Luke knew it too.

jjreason
06-19-2006, 02:16 PM
Well, we both sound just like Temuera Morrison... :o

But, my second question is the one I have more interest in: why did Luke accept that so readily? He just saved his dad, then decides to not even try to save him. Seems like Luke is doubting his abilities, to not make the attempt.

(p.s. Yes, I know about the emotional, wrap-up-the-story aspect to vader's redemption through his ultimate sacrifice, I'm just wondering outside of that)

I'm guessing that there may have been more conversation inside the ship:

"Father, I can save you!!!"

"Son, let me go. I can be with you always, as Obi Wan has been."

"Oh, okay, then. Take it easy."

stillakid
06-19-2006, 02:22 PM
I'm guessing that there may have been more conversation inside the ship:

"Father, I can save you!!!"

"Son, let me go. I can be with you always, as Obi Wan has been."

"Oh, okay, then. Take it easy."

"Only I won't look like this. Keep an eye out for a young punk lookin' kid with a rape-like leer. You'll have absolutely no idea who that kid is because there is no reference for it in any of your own experience, but trust me, that will be me when I was good...er, um, well, not good in the classic sense, but better than I am now, or was a few minutes ago...Aw crap, you know what I mean!"

JediTricks
06-19-2006, 03:04 PM
Perhaps Vader shunning the Dark Side is part of why he can no longer live, the Dark Side is what fueled his post-traumatic life, he lived beyond his natural lifespan not just because of the wacky suit, but because he used the Dark Side to keep himself alive. Once he turned from the Dark Side, he would no longer be capable or willing to tap into those powers, and thus was about to die.

Bel-Cam Jos
06-19-2006, 04:53 PM
Perhaps Vader shunning the Dark Side is part of why he can no longer live, the Dark Side is what fueled his post-traumatic life, he lived beyond his natural lifespan not just because of the wacky suit, but because he used the Dark Side to keep himself alive. Once he turned from the Dark Side, he would no longer be capable or willing to tap into those powers, and thus was about to die.And would Luke know this? Could Luke sense his father's waning lifeforce and therefore gave in? I don't know.

Uh, Luke DID say "I've got to save you" and Ani answers with "you already have." :confused: So that's enough?

Location: Endor shield bunker
Han: "Leia! Are you alright?"
Leia: "Yeah, it's not too bad."
Han: "Oh. Okay. Bye."

Location: Jabba's Palace, Tatooine
Han: "I can't see..."
Boushh/Leia: "You have hibernation sickness. Your eyesight will return in time."
Han: "Oh. Okay. Thanks."

Location: Death Star detention block
Officer: "Where are you taking this... thing?"
Luke: "Prisoner transfer, from cell block 1138."
Officer: "Oh. Okay. Carry on."

I know Yoda says there is no try, but c'mon. TRY a little, Luke!

JediTricks
06-19-2006, 05:28 PM
And would Luke know this? Could Luke sense his father's waning lifeforce and therefore gave in? I don't know.No, but Vader would know this, and he tells the boy "nothing can stop that now." Luke understands that father knows best on this matter, and doesn't ask any more than that (which is probably for the best because if Vader said "the Dark Side has kept me alive" or anything, it could have tipped Luke off on how to use those powers and head down the Dark path himself).

stillakid
06-19-2006, 06:35 PM
TRY a little, Luke!

Try what, exactly? Mouth to mouth? The old geyser wasn't choking or anything. He was dying inside the mask as it was. Taking it off may have quickened the pace a little, but the life support system was kaplooey. Short of putting F'dupakin into another off the rack evil Vader suit, there was nothing to do.

2-1B
06-20-2006, 12:01 AM
"Only I won't look like this. Keep an eye out for a young punk lookin' kid with a rape-like leer. You'll have absolutely no idea who that kid is because there is no reference for it in any of your own experience, but trust me, that will be me when I was good...er, um, well, not good in the classic sense, but better than I am now, or was a few minutes ago...Aw crap, you know what I mean!"

I agree completely, they should have gone with the original version. ;)

"Only I won't look like this. Keep an eye out for an old lookin' coot with a bad combover. You'll have absolutely no idea who that elderly fella is because there is no reference for it in any of your own experience because Obi-Wan told you two movies ago that Darth Vader was a young pupil of his, even though I'm 9 years older than him and look 15 years older than him, but trust me, that will be me when I was good...er, um, well, not good in the classic sense because I couldn't have possibly looked that old before I went into this suit, but better than I am now, or was a few minutes ago...Aw crap, you know what I mean!"

lol

stillakid
06-20-2006, 12:26 AM
I agree completely, they should have gone with the original version. ;)

"Only I won't look like this. Keep an eye out for an old lookin' coot with a bad combover. You'll have absolutely no idea who that elderly fella is because there is no reference for it in any of your own experience because Obi-Wan told you two movies ago that Darth Vader was a young pupil of his, even though I'm 9 years older than him and look 15 years older than him, but trust me, that will be me when I was good...er, um, well, not good in the classic sense because I couldn't have possibly looked that old before I went into this suit, but better than I am now, or was a few minutes ago...Aw crap, you know what I mean!"

lol

One of these things is not like the other,
One of these things just doesn't belong.
One of these things is not like the other,
Can you guess before we end this song?

El Chuxter
06-20-2006, 12:35 AM
Vader, since he's not glowing blue?

JimJamBonds
06-20-2006, 12:39 AM
Vader, since he's not glowing blue?

ZING!!!! :p

basschick
06-20-2006, 12:51 AM
so basically the bottom line is "Aw crap, you know what I mean!"









;)

2-1B
06-20-2006, 02:14 AM
One of these things is not like the other,
One of these things just doesn't belong.
One of these things is not like the other,
Can you guess before we end this song?

Vader's eyebrows ? :confused:

stillakid
06-20-2006, 09:52 AM
You all lose the Showcase Showdown. CLEARLY, the two old guys look almost exactly like each other so that Luke and the rest of the paying audience had NO problems connecting the dots. Haydakin, on the other hand, looks NOTHING like the other two old men leaving the audience and Luke scratching their heads wondeing "what the FU**? WHo is this punk and why does he want to rape ME?!!"

2-1B
06-20-2006, 10:27 AM
Point taken on the not looking alike aspect, but the rapist leer thing is on you - that's your own creepy projection. What kinda skeletons you got clamoring around in yer psyche ? lol

Bel-Cam Jos
06-20-2006, 10:37 AM
One of these things is not like the other,
One of these things just doesn't belong.
One of these things is not like the other,
Can you guess before we end this song?First, I'd go with the line "Can you guess before we end this song?" because it doesn't start with "One of these things." But if you're referring to the pictures, it's obviously #3 because that character never wore those clothes. I saw the Kenner POTF figure, so Anakin did wear those robes, and Vader did have a black suit. Never saw young Skywalker decked out in such threads.

Please send my No-Prize to:
Bel-Cam Jos
327 N. Platform
Cloud City, BE 3263827

Thank you. :o

2-1B
06-20-2006, 10:41 AM
But if you're referring to the pictures, it's obviously #3 because that character never wore those clothes. I saw the Kenner POTF figure, so Anakin did wear those robes, and Vader did have a black suit. Never saw young Skywalker decked out in such threads.

Correct! That's what bothers me about the change - not that they put Youngakin in there but rather the fact that it's a Neverworethoseclothesakin version of him! :eek:

stillakid
06-20-2006, 10:42 AM
Point taken on the not looking alike aspect, but the rapist leer thing is on you - that's your own creepy projection. What kinda skeletons you got clamoring around in yer psyche ? lol

Just that desire to not drop the soap inadvertently.

Jargo
06-20-2006, 11:57 AM
oh take it like a man. everyone else does.

sebastian shaws grandfatherly chuckle scares me more than the look on youngakins face. i keep thinking of Wurthers originals adverts and that creepy old man fondling his grandson while feeding him candy to keep him quiet.