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Chaddymac
06-24-2006, 11:26 PM
Am I the only one who's spent essentially the last year going, "Wait, so...how did she die?"

Most people try to say Padme died of a broken heart. But, c'mon. Really? C'mon.

So, I happened to be watching it on HBO again (in HD) and got to the part where the Anakin/Obi-Wan battle begins. Epic stuff. Coincidentally, I was also trying to do a clean install of Windows Vista Beta 2 on my laptop and right after I formatted my harrddrive, the install inscrutably failed. Perhaps my harrdrive also died of a broken heart...If anyone has the power of the sith or a decent background in how to get past the "BOOTMGR not found" screen, I invite you to PM me.

But I digress...

I was watching the scene where Anakin is being rebuilt inside the suit, which is so well juxtaposed against the birth of the babies and a new meaning to the scene came out. I may be reading too much into it, but, then again, maybe not. It's not like a lot of things are explicit in the Saga, like the implication that Tyrannus/Dooku ordered the clones, or that Darth Plageus (or however you spell it) is the Sith that trained Palpatine and may have created Anakin.

But anyway, it occured to me that if Anakin was supposed to be dead on Mustafar, and if Palpatine preserved him using unnatural Sith means, then perhaps the method he used was to take the life of someone else. Perhaps it takes a life to save a life. And maybe he chose to take Padme's life in an effort to keep her from giving birth to a child that he foresaw as a threat to his power--only he was too late. Or maybe just to bond Anakin to him forever. But wouldn't that explain why Palpatine was so sure that she had died? And wouldn't it also shine a new light on why, in ROTJ, when Luke says that Vader will die if he takes off his helmet, Vader's response is "Nothing can stop that now." Like, he knew he'd just thrown the one man that could have kept him alive into a pit?

I dunno...it would sure make a lot more sense to me than "She died because Anakin killed younglings." That's a crock of horse dookey.

So, since we've got that one licked...anyone know how to get around this bootmgr fiasco I've gotten myself into?

2-1B
06-24-2006, 11:39 PM
I don't think Palps had anything to do with it.

Chaddymac
06-25-2006, 12:40 AM
I don't think Palps had anything to do with it.
Okay...one more vote for the "Broken Heart Theory"

Any other takers?

And any tip for my computer problem? I'm seriously out of my league now...

El Chuxter
06-25-2006, 01:59 AM
She died of a hanging plot device in the hands of a writer who was in too much of a hurry to show a guy in black armor to bother giving her a decent end. :)

The explanation I buy into, which I must warn you is EU, comes from the Last of the Jedi series, where Obi-Wan has come to accept that she would've died on Mustafar, but clung to life long enough to have her children because she held to the hope that they could someday redeem Anakin. Once they were born, she "allowed" herself to die.

2-1B
06-25-2006, 02:08 AM
Look, it's just irony that Anakin "killed" her while trying to save her from death. I love that part of the story.

The 'broken heart' death is very cheesy and I would have rather they left out the "she's medically healed" line and been done with it - George should have just had Anakin kill her and be done with it. Maybe he wanted one last bit of sympathy for Anakin, I don't know. :confused:

As it is though and as far as I'm concerned, Anakin did "kill" her (in a way :D ) and had he listened to Yoda's advice his premonitions would not have come true because he wouldn't have turned to the Dark Side after snooping around about how to save her in the first place. :crazed:

JediTricks
06-25-2006, 03:27 PM
The explanation I buy into, which I must warn you is EU, comes from the Last of the Jedi series, where Obi-Wan has come to accept that she would've died on Mustafar, but clung to life long enough to have her children because she held to the hope that they could someday redeem Anakin. Once they were born, she "allowed" herself to die.You know what would have been good about this? Had it been in the movie at all. It's a MAAAAAAJOR stretch, but it's better than what we got.

Originally, Padme had the kids and then died, then they showed Anakin getting Vaderized, but I think it was Lucas who suggested they jumble it up in editing to juxtapose the shots.

Palps stealing Padme's life doens't work for me at all, he doesn't have her in his clutches, he doesn't know where she is, he has never shown any mention of an ability to steal life from a person, it's just too much of a stretch I think.

I would have been content to have her survive the movie learning she was going to die in a few years from the Nexu scratch she received in AOTC, she would go into hiding on Alderaan to raise her daughter for the first few years. This would have been supported by the movies both with the scratch and with Leia's answer about her "real mother".

2-1B
06-25-2006, 03:31 PM
What are you saying JT, that the SW universe doesn't have an equivalent of Neosporin? :grin:

JediTricks
06-26-2006, 03:00 PM
It's poison, it kills neosporin. Plus, she's the only one who got scratched by the Nexu in the movie (and wasn't mauled to death by it) so it'd be a doable excuse.

Dominic Guglieme
06-26-2006, 05:46 PM
Or, how about we just eat the symbolism of Vader killing the most morally sound character in all 6 films? The idea is that Padme', (pure love), is over-whelmed by Vader. And, the shock of finding out her husband is homicidal maniac cannot have done her any good.

Think about it. Choking Padme's is the only 100% objectively unforgivable think Anakin/Vader does in all 6 movies.

Daz
06-26-2006, 06:59 PM
Dominic Guglieme Or, how about we just eat the symbolism of Vader killing the most morally sound character in all 6 films?

Morally sound ? this the girl after all that professed her undying love for Anakin not long after he confessed to going on a killing spree evidently this was the deal breaker relationship wise. I know people will argue it was Tuskens who gives a s**t well if she was that moral she should. Sorry but for me Leia is the most moral in the six films




Dominic Guglieme The idea is that Padme', (pure love), is over-whelmed by Vader. And, the shock of finding out her husband is homicidal maniac cannot have done her any good.


Yeh shocking his Homicidal tendancies came right out of the blue didn't they its not like he told her in the last film or anything. . . . . . . . oh wait he did.




Dominic Guglieme Think about it. Choking Padme's is the only 100% objectively unforgivable think Anakin/Vader does in all 6 movies.

So Objectively speaking Killing all the younglings you could forgive. Well Dom your a better man then I am . Not that I'm a big fan Of annoying moppets in star wars film. . . . hell films in general I just don't think I could let Anakin slide on that one maybe I'm not christian enough.

JON9000
06-26-2006, 07:04 PM
the fact that the medical droids cannot figure out what is wrong with her leads me to believe the broken heart theory. I don't really have that much of a problem with it, except that having kids, you would have thought she might show more spunk. It was a compromise.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-26-2006, 07:26 PM
It's poison, it kills neosporin. Plus, she's the only one who got scratched by the Nexu in the movie (and wasn't mauled to death by it) so it'd be a doable excuse.
They got Bacta, which is a hell of a lot more effective than Neosporin. :D


Morally sound ? this the girl after all that professed her undying love for Anakin not long after he confessed to going on a killing spree evidently this was the deal breaker relationship wise. I know people will argue it was Tuskens who gives a s**t well if she was that moral she should. Sorry but for me Leia is the most moral in the six films
Killing the Tuskens was justified to a point, I think. I think he should have killed at least some of the male Tuskens who he figured were responsible, but maybe not the whole clan. However, it was possible that the other Tuskens could have still killed the other Larses, or someone else, but I don't think that Anakin was thinking rationally at that point. Anyway, they killed Shmi, so Anakin killed them; however, the younglings and other Jedi did no wrong (despite what Palpatine said) and that was unjustified.

Also, my mom thinks wholeheartedly that Anakin was right in killing the Tuskens, so maybe Padmé did too. :D

As far as Padmé being morally sound, well, she married Anakin when she knew it was wrong and against the rules. I don't think that's really "morally sound."

And for the medical droids - if she had medical droids to monitor the babies beforehand (as the novel says), and they didn't know she was carrying twins, well then, I doubt they're 100% reliable all the time.

Daz
06-26-2006, 08:10 PM
Mr. JabbaJohnL As far as Padmé being morally sound, well, she married Anakin when she knew it was wrong and against the rules. I don't think that's really "morally sound."


I wouldn't say that she was necessarily morally bankrupt just because she broke a rule its more that when confronted with the reality that Ani was a mass murderer she tacitally approved of it by shacking up with him regardless no wonder there was a look of confusion in his eyes when She spurned him on Mustafar talk about mixed signals. She should have informed the Council their chosen one was going off the rails as soon as he told her.

Dominic Guglieme
06-27-2006, 02:22 PM
The Tuskens had it coming. Granted, Anakin was killing more in anger than out of a sense of justice. But, that stretch of Tatooine was manifestly safer after Anakin's pogrom. And, only hearing about it, one (such as Padme') may give Anakin the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was acting justly.


The room full of apprentices *is* justified. Anakin knows the Jedi are less than forthright. (Remember their off the books assignment to him?) His trust in the Order has been reasonably shaken. Wiping out a room full of young Jedi is justified in context. Oh, and kids are not full people. Natural law and statutory law support me on this.

BanthaPoodoo
06-27-2006, 03:36 PM
So, since we've got that one licked...anyone know how to get around this
bootmgr fiasco I've gotten myself into?

Boot off the Vista CD, go to recovery console type FIXBOOT

That should do the trick.

Rocketboy
06-27-2006, 03:52 PM
Boot off the Vista CD, go to recovery console type FIXBOOT

That should do the trick.But that didn't kill Padme.

Daz
06-27-2006, 05:26 PM
Dominic Guglieme The room full of apprentices *is* justified. Anakin knows the Jedi are less than forthright. (Remember their off the books assignment to him?) His trust in the Order has been reasonably shaken. Wiping out a room full of young Jedi is justified in context.

Contextually speaking I hardly think him being asked by the order to keep an eye on Palps somehow justifies him massacring younglings, whatever logic Palps uses, it doesn't change the fact that it was wrong and unforgivable.



Dominic Guglieme Oh, and kids are not full people. Natural law and statutory law support me on this.

Your point being what, kids are expendable .

jjreason
06-27-2006, 08:48 PM
A murder's a murder, Dominic - I have to disagree with what you're saying as well. I watch that scene with hesitation every time, it still gets me. I keep trying to see at least a hint of disgust on Anakin's face (based on the distastefulness of that particular task), but I don't think it's there. :(

El Chuxter
06-27-2006, 09:01 PM
I find killing a roomful of kids who are barely old enough to speak to be as reprehensible as blowing up an entire peaceful planet, only on a smaller scale. Period. They're not old enough to have made a choice about how they want to live their lives, nor are they capable at this point of being complicit in the Jedi's "schemes" against Anakin and Palpatine.

2-1B
06-27-2006, 11:34 PM
watch Godfather II if you need a refresher on the importance of killing the younglings. ;) Palps watched it, he knew. lol

jjreason
06-28-2006, 12:40 AM
I don't understand why they didn't just have Padme die from the wounds inflicted by Anakin (though I guess she did, indirectly - the wound of him breaking her heart :rolleyes: ). Too easy, I guess.

Droid: "Sir, we've had to remove the medical collar in order to deliver the babies."

Obi: "Babies?"

Droid: "Yes. She's carrying..... twins."

Obi: "Will she survive?"

Droid: "We are not hopeful. The injuries she sustained were... significant."

Obi: "Oh.... dear."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Separate but related: did Palpatine honestly believe she was dead?

2-1B
06-28-2006, 01:16 AM
I think so.

JediTricks
06-28-2006, 03:34 PM
They got Bacta, which is a hell of a lot more effective than Neosporin. :DShe couldn't use it that deep in her system because she needed to protect her babies from its affects on them, so she willingly and knowingly sacrifices her life for them. Yes! TAKE THAT GEORGE LUCAS, YOU HACK! Score one for ol' JT! :p



Or, how about we just eat the symbolism of Vader killing the most morally sound character in all 6 films? The idea is that Padme', (pure love), is over-whelmed by Vader. And, the shock of finding out her husband is homicidal maniac cannot have done her any good.

Think about it. Choking Padme's is the only 100% objectively unforgivable think Anakin/Vader does in all 6 movies.Trying out old theories on a new audience, eh Dom? :D Leia is more morally sound than Padme, Padme falls in love/lust with an admitted killer during AOTC (for no apparent reason) and agrees to an illicit relationship with him which ultimately leads to the downfall of civilization; plus, Padme is a bit toothless in the fight against evil and corruption once she joins the Senate where Leia actually fights the good fight on 2 fronts at once. In the prequels, Shmi is the most morally sound character, she gives totally selflessly of her only family for his betterment without batting an eye despite her boy being only 8 years old and not ready to strike out on his own.



Killing the Tuskens was justified to a point, I think. I think he should have killed at least some of the male Tuskens who he figured were responsible, but maybe not the whole clan. However, it was possible that the other Tuskens could have still killed the other Larses, or someone else, but I don't think that Anakin was thinking rationally at that point. Anyway, they killed Shmi, so Anakin killed them; however, the younglings and other Jedi did no wrong (despite what Palpatine said) and that was unjustified.Careful though, this is a slippery slope, how does Anakin know which Tuskens were responsible? How does he insure he's not just taking a revenge killing against anyone in the vicinity? How does he know when to STOP killing Tuskens? How are those Tusken women and children involved and why do they deserve to be slaughtered? How does Anakin know these Tuskens are going to kill others? These are questions which Anakin doesn't seem to care about at all, this is what makes his act unjustifiable if nothing else... that and his performance afterwards. :crazed:

Let me turn your argument around: since most of the Sept 11th hijackers were Saudis, does that give Americans the right to kill all Arabs? It's the same thing.


I wouldn't say that she was necessarily morally bankrupt just because she broke a rule...The argument wasn't that she was morally bankrupt because of it, just that she wasn't the MOST morally-sound character in the saga because of it.



The Tuskens had it coming. Granted, Anakin was killing more in anger than out of a sense of justice. But, that stretch of Tatooine was manifestly safer after Anakin's pogrom.By your complete assumption only do we know this. The movie doesn't even explain the Tuskens' motives, it's like an old western from the '50s where the Injuns are "just evil", so we can assume that wiping out the entire people is good for the settlers, yet even the prequels don't show the Tuskens in as negative a light as those old westerns where indians would be shown constantly attacking and sneaking up on "the good guys"... but even in those westerns the heroes weren't just allowed to kill entire tribes full of women and children, that's what villains did.


The room full of apprentices *is* justified. Anakin knows the Jedi are less than forthright. (Remember their off the books assignment to him?) His trust in the Order has been reasonably shaken. Wiping out a room full of young Jedi is justified in context. Oh, and kids are not full people. Natural law and statutory law support me on this.Anakin knows at this point in the movie that Palpatine is an evil Sith, that the Jedi were justified in scheming against him, Anakin himself tattled on Palps and wanted to join in the arresting party, so the movie shows that Anakin's only justification for killing a room full of Jedi, whether they be younglings or masters, is "evil".

Dominic Guglieme
06-28-2006, 05:04 PM
I am not saying Anakin should have enjoyed killing the kids. But, I am saying it was objectively justified.

The Jedi gave Anakin an off the books assignment, to spy on (in Anakin's words) "a mentor and a friend". And, ya know what, the Chancellor had treated Anaking pretty well, and easily treated him better than the Jedi. Before Anakin chokes Padme', the audience could consider that from Anakin's perspective, the Jedi were the ones thwarting his attempts to peacefully mediate a surrender for the Chancellor. (Granted, Anakin was being selfish, but he was trying to avoid bloodshed.)

Given the stakes, would you want a room full of pre-Jedi running around? Yeah, hacking up a room full of kids ain't great and noble. But, watching the movie, it is much easier to justify that than choking Padme'.


I have addressed the question of Anakin being a killer and Padme falling in love with him above. Honesty, the Tusken pogrom would not bug me either. But, I do see JT's case for Shmi. (Actually, given the importance of family as a them in SW, I am ashamed I never caught on to that before.) Still, of the main characters, I still say Padme's is more sound.


Further Tusken notes: In every appearance, the Tuskens are beligerent. They are attacking, and killing. In some cases, this is explicitly for sport. (Episode 1.) The depictions of Tuskens as brutes is uniform. Tusken babies are (by all available evidence) likely to grow up to become threats to others.

I will address the terrorism related question only briefly outside of the Pit. (If anyone wants to discuss the War on Terror/Clash of Civilizations further, start a thread down there, and send me a message about it.) We are not justified in killing all Arabs. That is practically, and morally, unsound. But, targeting specific, geographically tied groups is another thing entirely. (Refernce Syria, and to a lesser extent Egypt's counter terrorism efforts in the 80s.)

JediTricks
06-28-2006, 05:26 PM
I am not saying Anakin should have enjoyed killing the kids. But, I am saying it was objectively justified.

The Jedi gave Anakin an off the books assignment, to spy on (in Anakin's words) "a mentor and a friend". And, ya know what, the Chancellor had treated Anaking pretty well, and easily treated him better than the Jedi. Before Anakin chokes Padme', the audience could consider that from Anakin's perspective, the Jedi were the ones thwarting his attempts to peacefully mediate a surrender for the Chancellor. (Granted, Anakin was being selfish, but he was trying to avoid bloodshed.)

Given the stakes, would you want a room full of pre-Jedi running around? Yeah, hacking up a room full of kids ain't great and noble. But, watching the movie, it is much easier to justify that than choking Padme'.Nope, sorry, I could see Anakin using that logic to justify cutting down Mace or Yoda, which I might add he does NOT when he makes a move against Mace, but against defenseless children of an order he still acts like he values up until the second he joins the Sith? There's no way that's justifiable on any objective level that values human life whatsoever. Using the example of a singuar individual's actions to justify mass murder seems pretty dubious for the audience to believe, especially when Anakin himself doesn't convey that sentiment.



Further Tusken notes: In every appearance, the Tuskens are beligerent. They are attacking, and killing. In some cases, this is explicitly for sport. (Episode 1.) The depictions of Tuskens as brutes is uniform. Tusken babies are (by all available evidence) likely to grow up to become threats to others. What??? In Mexico and Europe, people all the time throw stuff and attack racers who blast through their towns, does that mean we have the right to wipe out their entire villages? Just because Lucas falls back on the generic "native savages" stereotype over and over doesn't mean they're without warrant in Ep 1, nor does it allow for killing women and children as acceptable.


I will address the terrorism related question only briefly outside of the Pit. (If anyone wants to discuss the War on Terror/Clash of Civilizations further, start a thread down there, and send me a message about it.) We are not justified in killing all Arabs. That is practically, and morally, unsound. But, targeting specific, geographically tied groups is another thing entirely. (Refernce Syria, and to a lesser extent Egypt's counter terrorism efforts in the 80s.)Ok, and in those examples, the collateral damage (read: dead innocents) caused by these "counterattacks" is on the hands of those in charge, they may not be found guilty in a court of law and we may even look at it as necessary, but we aren't supposed to overlook it entirely. Tying in to what I was saying in the previous paragraph, Lucas takes Anakin's slaughter of the Tuskens and uses the cinematic medium to tell the audience that what he is doing is bad, it even reinforces the idea by having Qui-Gon shout out in pain from beyond the grave (sloppily though this execution was), so no matter how much good you *may* see in Anakin's actions, the movie tells us that they were bad and evil, again reinforcing it later with Anakin's flip-out in the garage - he knows he is responsible for something somewhat "wrong", otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned killing the women and children, he wouldn't be weeping and yelling over it. There should be nothing cavalier about this kind of extermination of life, collateral damage or not.

Chaddymac
06-29-2006, 11:05 AM
Boot off the Vista CD, go to recovery console type FIXBOOT

That should do the trick.
Brilliant. Thank you. It's working, it's working!

Dominic Guglieme
06-29-2006, 07:36 PM
I agree, Anakin's killing the Tuskens is wrong in that he is emotional when he does it. (He is killing for revenge, not to prevent further attacks.) But, Padme' does not necessarily know why he kills, and is likely giving Anakin the benefit of the doubt. Thus, her reaction in Episode 3, when Anakin's true self becomes apparent, is understandable.

(Contrast Anakin with Luke in Episode 4. Luke has the highest kill count on any movie hero, ever.)

As for the younglings, if one sees the kids as the next generation of troublemakers, one might decide that killing them would save more lives and cause less misery in the long term. Of course, in light of Anakin's choking Padme', we know he reasoning is selfish. But, without the choke scene, we would be left with questions on this front.

JediTricks
06-30-2006, 05:29 PM
I agree, Anakin's killing the Tuskens is wrong in that he is emotional when he does it. (He is killing for revenge, not to prevent further attacks.) But, Padme' does not necessarily know why he kills, and is likely giving Anakin the benefit of the doubt. Thus, her reaction in Episode 3, when Anakin's true self becomes apparent, is understandable. I disagree, in Ep 2 Anakin is pretty clear that he feels he did wrong, that he acted in revenge, and if we're supposed to believe Padme saw it differently then the movie should have conveyed that, which it didn't. Your version is definitely better than what we got, but I don't think it is what we got.


(Contrast Anakin with Luke in Episode 4. Luke has the highest kill count on any movie hero, ever.) But in Ep 4 the movie gives the audience no doubt that Luke was in the right, not even a second of hesitation on the storyteller's part there, no shadow of a doubt, whereas in Ep 2 the movie conveys the message that Anakin did wrong.


As for the younglings, if one sees the kids as the next generation of troublemakers, one might decide that killing them would save more lives and cause less misery in the long term. Of course, in light of Anakin's choking Padme', we know he reasoning is selfish. But, without the choke scene, we would be left with questions on this front.But this again is not in the movie, we're never given any real setup to suggest Anakin says this, cinematically it's an unsupported motivation to claim - if the audience has to infer that much, it's not being implied.

JimJamBonds
07-06-2006, 12:15 PM
But in Ep 4 the movie gives the audience no doubt that Luke was in the right, not even a second of hesitation on the storyteller's part there, no shadow of a doubt, whereas in Ep 2 the movie conveys the message that Anakin did wrong.

I think you should borrow my copy of Clerks JT. :D

JediTricks
07-06-2006, 04:32 PM
Kevin Smith isn't right about everything though, he used to be a POTF2 scalper for corn's sake.

maatu
07-06-2006, 04:41 PM
i agree, but adding the thing about killing in real life is wrong. whoever that was. so you condem killing people in middle east but those people in iraq wouldn't give a dam about blowing you up or cutting your head in front of a camera. it's not all people it's just your point.

JimJamBonds
07-07-2006, 12:28 AM
Kevin Smith isn't right about everything though, he used to be a POTF2 scalper for corn's sake.

I didn't say he was right about everything, my point was somebody in the crowd didn't think the DS blowing up was such a for sure thing.

JediTricks
07-07-2006, 01:03 AM
True, but I'm not so sure he believes that as much as he wanted to say something controversial and opposed to the general belief, devil's advocate if you will.

2-1B
07-07-2006, 01:15 AM
Kevin Smith isn't right about everything though

Agreed, like that bit about Anakin he allowed into his new movie. :)

El Chuxter
07-07-2006, 09:24 AM
Or like deciding to dredge up Clerks yet again because his one movie to do something else bombed because he was dumb enough to have J-Lo in it.

2-1B
07-07-2006, 12:24 PM
Meh, it wouldn't have been a big deal if it was released before Gigli. :)

Dominic Guglieme
07-07-2006, 06:12 PM
Ack. Sorry I have not been around for a bit. In any case, can somebody please explicate about Keven Smith, and what he said/showed in his movie? Thanks.

JimJamBonds
07-10-2006, 02:54 PM
Ack. Sorry I have not been around for a bit. In any case, can somebody please explicate about Keven Smith, and what he said/showed in his movie? Thanks.

Put in a copy of Clerks and ff to the 29th minute of the film. Its the talk about independant contractors and if they are innocent or not... although I remembered the film wrong, they are talking about DS II not DS I.

General_Grievous
07-17-2006, 10:12 PM
Choking Padme's is the only 100% objectively unforgivable think Anakin/Vader does in all 6 movies.
And Anakin slaughtering hundreds of jedi (a lot of them children) is forgivable......how??

JT, Kevin Smith scalped Star Wars figures? Please explain.

JediTricks
07-18-2006, 04:09 AM
Back in the day (mid-to-late '90s), Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes would prowl a bunch of TRUs in the New Jersey and New York area for POTF2 goodness and then the newest figures would "magically" appear in Smith's comic shop (this was the pre-"Secret Stash" store) for inflated prices. They'd poach shelves and even whole cases out of the back rooms at times.

General_Grievous
07-18-2006, 12:49 PM
Back in the day (mid-to-late '90s), Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes would prowl a bunch of TRUs in the New Jersey and New York area for POTF2 goodness and then the newest figures would "magically" appear in Smith's comic shop (this was the pre-"Secret Stash" store) for inflated prices. They'd poach shelves and even whole cases out of the back rooms at times.
Wow, that's dirty. As if he didn't have enough money from Clerks, Mallrats, and Chasing Amy...

JEDIpartner
01-23-2007, 02:47 PM
So... have we discussed this? Did Panty Padme die on purpose so that Vader wouldn't sense her and come looking for the baby (babies)?

2-1B
01-23-2007, 08:47 PM
I think she felt destined to die after Ani's visions and his choking of her.

Kidhuman
01-23-2007, 10:30 PM
I think Palps killed her. HE mentioned controlling Midi's with the force and caused her to die. He tried before she gave birth and it didnt work.

2-1B
01-23-2007, 11:07 PM
he should have done or done not - there is no tried.

lol

JON9000
01-26-2007, 11:09 AM
In all fairness, Jay did have a junk habit to support.

stillakid
01-26-2007, 11:23 AM
Somehow, this seemed relevant...the part about the woman in the bar. The rest is just funny. :thumbsup:


The other night I had the lonely bug, so I go out to this bar, I see a beautiful woman alone. I’m thinking, “She’s alone, I’m alone. Why not annoy the **** out of her?”

So I walk over. I'm walking, I'm walking, I’m wearing clogs. And I notice she’s got a black eye. She’s got a shiner. I’m thinking, “great. She doesn’t listen.”

A couple of Mcnuggets and lies later, we’re back at my house, and we’re having *** doggy style. Now I didn’t plan on it, that’s just how she passed out.

Thank you, slow gas leak.

Fellas, have you ever had the experience of a woman yelling another man’s name out in the height of passion? Well, this woman was yelling out names of men who have never ever lived. Fantasy names.

She’s like, “oh yeah. Give it, to me, Chewbacca. Work it, Spider-man. Oh. Oh, not in my eye, Papa Smurf.”

And I’m thinking, “is she crazy like it says on her bracelet? Or is she just looking at my sheets?”

*** is not that important. Y’know what’s really important? That afterwards part. We’re you’re both naked, and it’s warm, and you watch the sun come up through the windshield. You look in her good eye, and you help strap on her leg, and you know... You ****** a pirate.

Jargo
01-26-2007, 08:57 PM
I think the Polis Massans just botched the job. they are only using a mining colony med room still wearing their mining suits. not exactly sterile. she probably got an MRSA and they kept quiet about it.

obi-dad
01-28-2007, 08:27 PM
I would have been content to have her survive the movie learning she was going to die in a few years from the Nexu scratch she received in AOTC, she would go into hiding on Alderaan to raise her daughter for the first few years. This would have been supported by the movies both with the scratch and with Leia's answer about her "real mother".

I don't care what the cause of death should be, but I agree with JT, Leia should have gone into hiding on Alderaan for the first several years to support Leia's answer. Jedi or not, you don't have memories of someone who's died the minute you were born. Nexu scratch works fine for me. This has bothered me since the night ROTS was released and she died. I could forgive the whole TPM movie if Lucas would have got this right.

JimJamBonds
02-06-2007, 12:27 PM
I would have been content to have her survive the movie learning she was going to die in a few years from the Nexu scratch she received in AOTC, she would go into hiding on Alderaan to raise her daughter for the first few years. This would have been supported by the movies both with the scratch and with Leia's answer about her "real mother".

If the movie would have continued and progressed over several years then yes, however if the movie lives and Padme is on Alderaan then there are a ton of carpy EU books coming out about what she is doing and also her death. In that reguard I think Lucas made the right call.

JediTricks
02-06-2007, 10:41 PM
I think you can have it near the end where Padme realizes she doesn't have long to live and the audience can assume she'll die soon there. At most, that'd vomit out 1 EU book about her doing nothing for the last 3 years. :p

Phantom-like Menace
02-07-2007, 01:05 AM
If this were a game of Clue, I would say George Lucas killed Padme with bad writing at Skywalker Ranch.

Actually as far as I'm concerned, Lucas killed Padme at the end of Episode I. In Episode I, she was massively capable, decisive, and ready to kick *** with the rest of the heroes. In the second, she was starting to become scene decoration, and by the third movie she was the ultimate in damsels in distress who couldn't do anything or decide anything without asking Anakin what he thinks lest she soil herself by doing a man's work.

First, after choking her, Vader said it best: she was alive! Second, there is no way you can convince me her injuries were great enough to kill her or even really put her in the hospital as far as I'm concerned. The droid backs me up on that opinion when he says there is nothing wrong with her physically. I'll accept that a person who is very badly wounded or even a person of advanced age can more or less "give up the ghost." There is enough precedent there for me not to argue it too strenuously, but a perfectly fit person in the prime of life just deciding to die? Bull****. I don't care how "poetic" such a death is, I'll reiterate: bull****.

What's bad is I can't even really defend the decision to kill Padme from a story perspective (the idea of her dying while Vader is born aside), because it just seems like there was more potential to having her live. How much more evil would Palpatine have seemed if he told Anakin he had killed Padme himself while she was perfectly alive with Luka and Leia? How much more interesting would it have been to see Padme give up Luke, escpecially given Lucas's constant desire to repeat themes where he could have echoed Shmi's giving up Anakin?

The biggest problem I have with the idea that she just decided to die is that leaving Luke and Leia without a mother is just inexcusable. "Oh, Anakin has become a bad guy. I just can't live." Well suck it up lady, your kids need you just a little bit more than you need to throw a fit and die. Padme from Episode I would have slapped Episode III Padme full accross the face for being so self-absorbed and useless.

And I just can't accept the idea that Leia recognized Padme from birth. First of all, if I were telling someone what my deceased mother was like, I might go ahead and warn them that I might be talking out of my ***, because she died in childbirth when I was born. That way they can stop listening to me waste their time. Second, she didn't remember Luke? Obi-Wan? Luke didn't remember Padme?

Qui-Long Gone
02-10-2007, 12:39 PM
No one dies well in a Lucas film....in fact, there should be a discease that you give to a character who dies a chump death in a Star Wars film, like Lucoma....Georgiphulis or McCallam's Disease....:dead: