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Tycho
06-29-2006, 04:35 PM
Have you seen the Pirates attack fortress or the combat playset on the top deck of their ship?

Come on Hasbro - Star Wars sets could outsell these and then-some!

With regards to their ship combat set (similar concept to the battle platforms sold during ROTS - like Obi-Wan vs. Body Guard, Mace vs. Palpatine, etc. - Hasbro could make sections you buy separately and assemble into Jabba the Hutt's sailbarge and release some corresponding figures at the same time (Fett, Solo, Barada et all again - with maybe Jabba marketed once more).

With regards to their fortress playset? Put the Death Star out in sections, perhaps with pack-in figures and Mouse Droids included. (You KNEW I was going to mention Mouse Droids, didn't you?)

It so irks me that Pirates comes and goes and will probably be forgotten - but Star Wars has started and survived the whole licensing phenomenon and will very well likely continue being around if Hasbro continues to announce waves like the ones planned for 2007 like they just did!

El Chuxter
06-29-2006, 04:38 PM
You need to buy some Pirates playsets and use those for your SW figures. "Imperial Assault on Bermuda." :)

plasticfetish
06-29-2006, 04:52 PM
Have you seen the Pirates attack fortress or the combat playset on the top deck of their ship? Come on Hasbro - Star Wars sets could outsell these and then-some!C'mon... you know that's not true. POTC is a fresh license, backed by two big new movies, backed by every ounce of hype that Disney can throw out there for them. Besides POTC having playsets has nothing to do with Star Wars... you might as well complain that because My Little Pony came out with a playset this year, Hasbro should do the same for Star Wars.

I like Chux's idea anyway. "Space pirates" is always a fun way to go.

(edit: wait, why is this thread in this section anyway?)

JediTricks
06-29-2006, 05:31 PM
I don't think those playsets are selling well, they look a little plain I think, if Zizzle eats it on them it'll only reinforce Hasbro's belief that playsets are moneylosers.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-29-2006, 05:55 PM
Tycho, you brought up the Battle Arenas - those really didn't sell that well, IIRC. I don't have any of them, since when they were out, I just didn't care all that much about them. However, I don't really see them as playsets so much as . . . well, I'm not sure what they were.

Whenever Hasbro releases a playset, it's generally not in scale with the film, or really very accurate either, which I think is why they don't sell very well. I mean, I know they're items that are very much "for kids," but of course collectors buy them as well. If Hasbro were to really spend time and effort in making playsets, and making them well, I could see them selling really well. Up to this point, most of their playsets have been less than stellar, hence them not selling well.

Tycho
06-29-2006, 08:44 PM
(edit: wait, why is this thread in this section anyway?)

Because this thread is really about getting more Star Wars playsets like Jabba's Sailbarge, the Death Star, etc.

JabbaJohn: I didn't buy the Battle Arenas either. They could have been more than what they were - but Hasbro didn't think to make something useful for the kiddie market AND diorama builders (a type of collector I suppose).

JT: I'd never heard of Zizzle before the POTC toys. Are they new on the scene or have they just been around "sucking" for a while now. The POTC toys don't seem to suck, btw - I just haven't seen a large variety yet, nor have I even seen the films, so I need to check that stuff out.

Chux: does McFarlane ever make Beach Boy figures? I can have them take on 7" Unleashed Clone Troopers and make you an "Assault on Bermuda" diorama. ;)

plasticfetish
06-29-2006, 09:27 PM
JT: I'd never heard of Zizzle before the POTC toys. Are they new on the scene or have they just been around "sucking" for a while now.(I know I'm not JT, but...) They're a new company. I posted something about it over >> here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=52407330&blogID=115437979&Mytoken=55C1C0FB-E1FE-4AD3-ABCDC04628BF02F9491129171) a while ago. ;)

Tycho
06-29-2006, 09:34 PM
Thanks. That was an interesting blog to read, PF.

plasticfetish
06-29-2006, 09:48 PM
Yeah, it's kind of a cool thing... we get to see a new company really get going (or try to) with this line. At the Zizzle/Pirates thread over at actionfigs.com, there's a post about these being distributed in Canada now.

At this point, I think we have three different POTC lines going -- NECA, Zizzle and the Disney Store. (Someone's really payed attention to how Star Wars is marketed.)

Tycho
06-29-2006, 11:00 PM
While it's true I haven't seen Pirates, I can't believe it could ever be compared to Star Wars' market-staying Force (pun intended).

Batman, Super-Man, Spidey, nor Hulk could either. There's not a large enough universe.

I think SW will run its course, but with the Givin, and Biggs Darklighter and all the sources from the EU that they're pulling from now - I can see new waves of figures until 2018 now.

2006 will largely be forgotten as Hasbro has stepped up the anti for 2007 and nothing has ever compared to 2005 anyway. Revenge of the Sith was really "Revenge of Master-Marketing."

Apparently it really paid off for them and they just rode their laurels this year. But next year? Whoa!

See Spider-Man etc. occupies a world of ordinary humans. You could take Hulk for example, and make it a military line with privates, corporals, sergeants, etc. but other than that, "reporter woman," bicyclist, kid with dog, etc. (basically all the civilians) doesn't sound terribly interesting next to even non-speaking split second aliens like Herme Odel (JT will scoff at that as usual) but he'd really laugh if whoever has the Superman license decided to make action figures of all the passengers on the airplane.

Turbowars
06-30-2006, 12:07 AM
You think SW will run its course? What makes you think that after almost 30 years?:D

plasticfetish
06-30-2006, 01:23 AM
While it's true I haven't seen Pirates, I can't believe it could ever be compared to Star Wars' market-staying Force (pun intended).

Batman, Super-Man, Spidey, nor Hulk could either. There's not a large enough universe.No, POTC won't have the same market-staying "Force" as Star Wars, but lucky for Disney... they've got a few other ideas that they're tossing around. ;)

I don't agree when it comes to the Marvel and DC stuff. More than likely, Hasbro and Mattel see it the same way, which is why they're each investing pretty heavily with their respective comic book cash cows.


I think SW will run its course, but with the Givin, and Biggs Darklighter and all the sources from the EU that they're pulling from now - I can see new waves of figures until 2018 now.I can see them (or someone) milking Star Wars for a while longer, as long as they're smart enough to do it right.

Kidhuman
06-30-2006, 02:04 AM
Wait until they make the Black Pearl.

Tycho
06-30-2006, 02:07 AM
I can see them (or someone) milking Star Wars for a while longer, as long as they're smart enough to do it right.

That's what I meant Turbowars.

When we did the "scene-by-scene favorites for figures never made before" 5-movie poll (before ROTS was released) we came up with about 211 figures that could be made that had enough screen-time or personality (like even Ice Cream Maker Guy, Wilrow Hood) that the line could go on. With Hasbro moving out 50 figures per year, they could just do them and the remaining ROTS ones, and be done with it all in 4-5 years, but the obligatory Anakin, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Luke Tatooine, Han Cantina re-carded again, etc. take up significant space in the case assortments, so it will take a little bit longer. I'm saying interest will eventually cool off, unless the TV shows are raging hits and move the mass-market.

With Superman and other superhero properties, like I said before, are they going to make each of the "characters" (read: extras) that were on the plane Kal-El saves? Besides Lois, does anyone remember what they looked like? Would even a figure of the pilot sell? Mix that wave up with some baseball players from the field? The property doesn't have the variety to dive into like Star Wars does where even Wilrow Hood is seriously more distinguishable than the airplane pilot in Superman Returns. That's why there is Superman lifting a truck, Superman breaking kryptonite, Superman with flying action - 20 figures all variants of Superman (we don't even have that many Luke Tatooines - but it's close I'm sure).

The toy companies will do well with superhero properties so long as the birthrate doesn't start to decline - but I don't know anyone who collects every variation of Supes. Every new kid who's old enough to play with one might go for some version or another.

Star Wars is a completely different type of line.

As to the staying power of POTC? I'll need to see that movie. However, I suspect it will last as well as the LOTR line for a better comparison.

plasticfetish
06-30-2006, 02:59 AM
Yeah, I understand your point. The Star Wars "universe" was designed to be pretty much just that... a universe. Which gives Lucas and company a nearly infinite number of things that they can do with it.

Something like LOTR is limited because it's based on specific stories, with very little chance that anything new would be developed. (In a way, that's a good thing though.)

POTC is based on an amusement park ride with a pretty large fan base. It's almost a kind of cult fanbase in a way though. They also have the "pirate" thing going for them... and pirates are very popular. Disney could continue to develope and grow their pirate brand if they wanted. There could be cartoons, a live action TV show, or maybe another (new) park ride at some point.

The "Superhero" thing is for sure another animal, but the marketing strength isn't in the number of specific characters that can come from any one film, it has to do with the wide variety of films that can be created given the number of characters that are available. The Marvel (or DC) universe is really very similar to the Star Wars universe, in that the only limitation when it comes to developement is imagination... and money I suppose.

I mean, look at this list from Avi Arad's IMDB profile...

Captain America (2009) (announced) (executive producer)
The Hands of Shang-Chi (2007) (announced) (producer)
Werewolf by Night (2007) (announced) (producer)
Ant-Man (2008) (announced) (executive producer)
Deathlok (2008) (announced) (producer)
Wolverine (2007) (announced) (executive producer)
Untitled Nick Fury Project (2008) (announced) (producer)
Iron Fist (2006) (announced) (executive producer)
Sub-Mariner (2006) (announced) (executive producer)
Magneto (2007) (announced) (producer)
Thor (2009) (pre-production) (producer)
Iron Man (2008) (pre-production) (producer)
The Incredible Hulk (2008) (pre-production) (producer)
Fantastic Four 2 (2007) (pre-production) (producer)
Luke Cage (2006) (pre-production) (executive producer)
The Punisher 2 (2006) (pre-production) (producer)
"Wolverine & the X-Men" (2007) TV Series (pre-production) (executive producer)
The Killing Floor (2006) (filming) (executive producer)
Spider-Man 3 (2007) (filming) (producer)
Blade (2006) (TV) (post-production) (executive producer)
Ghost Rider (2007) (post-production) (producer)
Ultimate Avengers 2: Rise of the Panther (2006) (V) (completed) (executive producer)

...talk about staying power.

figrin bran
06-30-2006, 03:02 AM
heck, even Cars has playsets as well and even a short packed one that goes for around $60-70 on everyone's favorite auction site.

JediTricks
06-30-2006, 05:29 PM
I'd never heard of Zizzle before the POTC toys. Are they new on the scene or have they just been around "sucking" for a while now. The POTC toys don't seem to suck, btw - I just haven't seen a large variety yet, nor have I even seen the films, so I need to check that stuff out.I don't know much about Zizzle, they are new on the scene with only 1 toy previous that I know of, last year's "IZ" sound effects thingamabobber. They may be made up of the pieces of older companies the way Plan B is, but I don't know/think that's the case. I like their 4" figures, but their 7" figures are pretty bad-looking and their playsets look a little dull.


You know what I think is funny Tycho? You dog every other major toy license for not being as large and interesting as Star Wars since the rest are all humans, yet for over a decade (including while Star Wars POTF2 was going strongest) the top-selling toy line was Power Rangers. Just because Star Wars can make drooling meatbag figures and random goobers who look wacky doesn't mean those will sell, look at the death of POTF1, so many Squid-heads and other nobodies, that's what killed it, the market wanted heroes but could only find weirdoes and sales plummetted.

Tycho
06-30-2006, 06:05 PM
The solution is for Hasbro to keep the Heroes and Villains waves shipping:

Anakin
Obi-Wan
(maybe) Qui-Gon
Padme (keep the new versions coming!)
Battle Droid (of some type)
Darth Maul
C-3PO (I suppose)
R2D2
Yoda
Darth Sidious
Mace Windu
Jango Fett
Darth Tyranus
Clone Trooper (of some type)
General Grievous
Chewbacca
Darth Vader
Imperial Officer (of some type)
Rebel Trooper (of some type)
Han Solo
Luke Skywalker
Princess Leia
Stormtrooper (of some type)
Lando Calrissian (make the smuggler gear version already, Hasbro!)
Boba Fett

And so-on. That's 25 figures I identified that are pretty indispensible if you want to "play" Star Wars. Those figures are basically like having tons of Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man on the racks. Kids might want Wilrow Hood just so their stormtrooper can interact with him. The Stormtrooper has to be available first - then Luke Skywalker to come and save him (W.H.) by fighting the stormtrooper. The same with the Joker - he's got to have Batman to fight. But Batman's gotta have the Joker to beat up, conversely.

Anyway, Hasbro can make their micro-improvements on figures (like give a single-card, softgoods Anakin bending knees already!) but the figures listed above could comprise about 2 cases of 1 of each figure, constantly shipped. If they keep an eye on the stores, they'll know if there gets to be a glut of Cantina Han Solos or whatever - but at 1 per case, he's selling out now (see Tatooine waves in stores today). Anyway, if a store orders 2 or 3 new cases of figures with characters like Hem Dazon and R5D4 in the assortment, they automatically have to order one version or another of the H&V case - this is probably exactly what Hasbro is doing right now. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. That way a kid will buy R5D4 and Hem Dazon for his Luke Skywalker to meet. Just like Batman - only with way better variety.

figrin bran
06-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Tycho, i think that number might be too high actually. When i was a child, i played an extremely expanded SW universe in which my GI Joe And Transformers also existed. I would assume that kids nowadays do the same and mix all of their toys into a single universe. I didn't have playsets either and so i just used cardboard boxes and pillows and whatever else i could find for makeshift play environments.

Tycho
06-30-2006, 10:37 PM
Hehe. I remember those days. I used to take all the drawers out of my desk - spraypaint cotton balls orange-red, and whallah - a lava planet playset complete with catwalks. (We remember the lava rumors about Vader from even back then). Only Luke and Han were always fighting Boba Fett around the lava in my adventures. (we all said he used his rocket pack to fly out of the sarlaac).

I bought Hawk from GI Joe to be "Anakin Solo" long before Dark Horse Comics, Scholastic and Random House books allowed him to exist.

I also used the Panosh Place Voltron 3 3/4" figures that fit in the lions to expand play with my Star Wars sets. Remember those?

But what's your point? Then, counting variations like Blue Snaggletoothe, we had 102 figures that were significantly different from each other. Today we've probably well surpassed 600!

It's much easier to pretend your Gotal became a Dark Lord of the Sith than to start mixing lines and arming your 21st Century Toys soldiers with lightsabers.

JediTricks
07-01-2006, 12:10 AM
The solution is for Hasbro to keep the Heroes and Villains waves shipping...The problem is that the various Greatest Hits lines are full of crappy versions of the figures, and thus overwhelm the pegs. Plus if they do well and ship as a separate line then stores may not order any regular line cases. Case assortments are a more delicate balance than any of us would like to admit, while we'd prefer the POTJ style of "fair" cases, that only works for the first few months then it's no good, Hasbro swings it the other way but makes questionable choices there.



If they keep an eye on the stores, they'll know if there gets to be a glut of Cantina Han Solos or whateverThat's pretty much their biggest problem, they don't have enough detailed info on what's selling and WHY it's selling, and they don't seem to understand the nature of why something like the VTSC Biker Scout might sell more units than the VTSC Greedo. Apparently in Burbank, one of the local scalpers has taken to buying up all the pegwarmers at one Target - thus triggering an automated new shipment order - and then dumping them at a different Target. And WM and TRU have different ordering systems than Target, so while Hasbro gets basic sales data it's not quite enough I think.

BTW, Tatooine Han is the only figure from that wave I've seen more than once in a store.

kool-aid killer
07-01-2006, 05:08 PM
Now if Hasbro came out with a playset how many of us here would buy it and how many of us would just complain about its inaccuracies and wait for it to go on sale before we picked it up?

Tycho
07-01-2006, 05:21 PM
I'd buy:

A Trade Federation ship set (bridge, hallway corridor)
Otah Gunga (more a diorama maker's set, with High Council Chamber)
Theed Palace (multi-story)
Theed Generator room (an improvement over the one I own)
Theed Hanger (an improvement over the one I already bought 2 of)
Palpatine's office (complete with hidden duel levers for ROTS action)
Padme's apartment (with assasin droid / breaking window)
Kamino Clone Labs and Clone Trooper Training Grounds
Lars homestead (more geared to diorama set-ups - and I'd buy several)
Geonosian Droid Factory - something better than what can be assembled now
Jedi Council Chambers (you can pretty much assemble this now)
Invisible Hand observation room and bridge playsets
Galactic Senate playset (at least 10 Senate Car boxes)
The Mos Eisley Cantina - assemled from the parts sold separately or better
The Death Star interior - a multi-set assembler
Yavin Base
Echo Base - possibly a multi-set assembler using parts like the Bacta Tank
Yoda's Hut / Dagobah - possibly a multi-set assembler
Carbon Freezing Chamber - a huge re-do, that can fit the necessary characters
Jabba's Palace - a large setup that recreates the exterior and interior - can fold out
Sarlaac Pit - with position stands for the skiffs
Ewok Village - a re-release from vintage times (I actually have 2 vintage ones, so...)
Emperor's Throne Room

There may be more - but these would all be good.

Banthaholic
07-02-2006, 10:20 PM
Now if Hasbro came out with a playset how many of us here would buy it and how many of us would just complain about its inaccuracies and wait for it to go on sale before we picked it up?
I'd be all over any playsets. Inaccuracies don't bother me. I loved the vintage Hoth playsets for example. They give us all these awesome background charcters then give us no where for them to hang.

I'm hoping these ARE successful, so other toy makers (ie Hasbro) will say, why didn't we thing of that. Playsets or choppers and they went with choppers...

Tycho
07-03-2006, 12:51 AM
Not exactly off-topic, but Wal-Mart had wave 2 of the POTC figures today including Kiera Knightley's character. The likenesses are pretty good and the articulation is half-way decent. I'd say give them wrist articulation and then you've pretty much got it. Forgot to look if they turn at the waistline.

I didn't see either movie, so I'm not collecting these - a giant pirate ship might make me reconsider I suppose.

But the toys looked decent. No one was hanging around them interested, however.

But there were background characters in the mix it seemed - so you had some pirates that weren't the ship captains etc.

It was interesting and I learned a lot about the characters for having never seen the movies.

Kidhuman
07-03-2006, 12:59 AM
If your talking about the Zizzle figures, thats wave 1. There were 8 figures in that wave, 2 Jacks, Liz, Will, Bootstrap Bill, Davey Jones, Palifico and Pintel.

Reefer Shark
07-03-2006, 01:02 AM
The Kiera figure is from the first wave actually, wave 2 hasn't shown up yet as far as I know. I'm waiting on that wave for the Maccus figure (the hammerhead shark guy).

No one may seem interested now, but I'm willing to bet interest will spike after July 7th.


I didn't see either movie, so I'm not collecting these - a giant pirate ship might make me reconsider I suppose.

Well thar she blows, a giant Ultimate Electronic Black Pearl pirate ship (http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ZIZ00125#LargeImage)! I already know I'm going to buy one of these when it comes out, why lie to myself? I bought the Isla Cruces playset on sale at Target ($26), but haven't opened it yet so I can't really comment on that one.

Tycho
07-03-2006, 01:40 AM
That's so cool Reefer Shark. Seeing that makes me so mad we don't yet have even an under-scale Jabba the Hutt Sailbarge!

It would have to be a little bit larger than 2 1/2 feet long so it could accomdate Jabba himself comfortably - but come on! If Zizzle makes a profit with this line, Hasbro better not have their eyes closed!

In fact, I'm going to add a sailbarge question to JT's Ask Hasbro thread right now!

Kidhuman
07-04-2006, 02:00 PM
Tycho, check out the commercial for the black pearl playset. Now Imagine a sail barge set like this.


http://zizzle.com/pirates_comm01.html

TheRealDubya
07-04-2006, 02:34 PM
The POTC Zizzle figures are going like hotcakes in Seattle; I've seen the pegs picked clean a few times; I'm sure the television ads are helping move units.

JediTricks
07-04-2006, 03:28 PM
20 features! Dude, that's awesome. Hasbro now officially owes me a Jabba's Sail Barge, those motherfathers!

Tycho
07-04-2006, 04:31 PM
Thanks Kidhuman!

I totally agree with JediTricks: Hasbro OWES us Jabba's Sailbarge big time!

I really want them to answer that question in one of our Q&A sessions - with direct mention of Zizzle's Black Pearl and see what those guys cough up as an excuse!

POTC has sold indidual fans, what 8 -10 figures, with probably 16 or barely more being the collection's total planned?

We've bought over 500 of Hasbro's SW brand figues and some percentage of them are Jabba The Hutt / Battle at Carkoon related.

Just the MAIN CHARACTERS that would go with a Sailbarge (and skiff) set alone include:

Jabba - deluxe figure repack I guess
Bib Fortuna - 2006 repack
Leia - 2004 repack
Luke -2004 repack
Han 2006 repack
Chewie any repack
R2 - 2004 Bar2-D2 repack
C-3PO (one eye version w. S.Crumb)
Lando 2004 repack
Klaatu - single card the Skiff Guard 3-pack (or make the original vintage one)
Barada - 2006 repack
Nikto - single card the Skiff Guard 3-pack (or make a new one)
Salacious Crumb - a nice pack-in for whomever - w. C-3PO would be nice
Gamorrean Guard - these never shelf-warmed: 2004 repack

Meanwhile Tessek was one of the best 2001 POTJ sculpts they could bring back into service.

There was nothing wrong with 1998's Ree-Yees, or 8D8.

- or 1997's EV-9D9

Right there, that breakdown equals the POTC's stocking amount.

I'd call the collection the POTC assortment (Pit of the Carkoon case). LOL.

Kidhuman
07-04-2006, 07:59 PM
It is an awesome piece and HAsbro should make us a sail barge. The thing is The Black PEarl is 62 bucks at EE(preorder), probably 59.99 at retail when it hits. A sail Barge would fall into the category of thge AT-TE. IF Zizzle sells a ton of the Black Pearl(which they said most retailers would get em for the holidays) then Hasbro would have no excuse to get us a Sail barge.

Phantom-like Menace
07-05-2006, 12:07 AM
It all comes down to the fact that PotC has a movie coming out. No matter how copiously movie toys clog the shelves, toy companies are convinced that movies are where the money is. They'll spend all that money on the license and all that money on manufacturing just so they can sell as many toys as possible before the next big movie opens next week, but not even a respectable fraction of that money goes into nurturing existing toylines.

I understand little kids have about that much of an attention span when it comes to toys. If you don't have next week's movie toys you are a loser. It does seem though, that if they made maybe half as many of these toy du jour fiascoes, they might be able to use the money they saved to promote mainstays. They already have the license. Money saved. They can more easily reuse molds and parts in an ongoing line. Money saved. The television series are coming out, so there is less need to advertise. Money saved.

I hope Hasbro realizes they can take advantage of the weekly Star Wars series, both the cartoon and the live action in exactly the way Bandai benefitted from the weekly Power Rangers to make those toys as successful as JT mentioned above. Hasbro could go completely crazy and actually run commercials during these programs. Yes, my comment above about less need to advertise seems to contradict, but only if you don't understand that "less need" doesn't equal "no need."

I still think the only way Hasbro can make the collector happy is by making him angry. I could easily see Hasbro making exactly what we keep asking for. We could get our large-scale vehicles and playsets. But the only way I see it being likely is if they release them in very small numbers at high cost. Those of us willing to pay the cost will be screaming about the availability. Everyone else will just be screaming about the cost.

Otherwise, maybe Hasbro could farm playset production out to another company just like Sideshow collectibles and the twelve inch line.

Tycho
07-05-2006, 12:25 AM
And Star Wars is the single most-proven "mainstay."

In '95 there was no movie.

In '96 there was no movie.

In '98 there was no movie.

In '00 there was no movie.

In '01 there was no movie.

In '03 there was no movie.

In '04 there was no movie.

In '06 there is no movie.

Batman Begins product is no longer on the shelves. Neither is Spider-Man movie stuff.

Aliens and Terminator stuff is long gone.

Fantastic Four and the broader spectrum of Hulk, X-men (movie) products etc. are all gone.

Waterworld stuff is way long gone. So is Men In Black toys.

Independence Day stuff is long, long gone. As is Starship Troopers.


Star Wars has almost always been on the shelves - it sure has all these years!

Hasbro was the most profitable toy company in 2005 - why? Because of 1 toy line. I'll let you guess which one it was (look around the room you're sitting in for a likely hint).

Turbowars
07-05-2006, 12:32 AM
Great post Tycho! Hasbro might end up killing the line before 2018. As long as there's new OT figures I will be buying, but hasbro is losing me while GG and SSC have my full attention.

Kidhuman
07-05-2006, 12:38 AM
You forgot Boba Fett and Weequay on your list up there for sail barge figures Tycho.

Reefer Shark
07-05-2006, 12:43 AM
It all comes down to the fact that PotC has a movie coming out. No matter how copiously movie toys clog the shelves, toy companies are convinced that movies are where the money is. They'll spend all that money on the license and all that money on manufacturing just so they can sell as many toys as possible before the next big movie opens next week, but not even a respectable fraction of that money goes into nurturing existing toylines.

Gotta agree here. As much as I'd love to get a sail barge, I don't think there's a chance in hell that we'll see one because of what Phantom-Like Menace says. I'm convinced Hasbro would think it's just too big of a ship to do without current movie support.

Sure they've released newly sculpted vehicles in the new line, but most have been prequel stuff with current movie support. Most classic stuff has been repaints of vintage molds. The few new molds they've done for classic vehicles has been high-profile signature SW ships like X-Wing, Landspeeder, etc.. The exception being the Tie Bomber, I was pleasantly shocked when that was released!

But who knows.... with the DVD's and anniversary coming up, mabye they could use that as an excuse to do it as a Target/Wal-Mart (or whatever) exclusive.

figrin bran
07-05-2006, 12:57 AM
if hasbro could sell vehicles for their 3.75" GI Joe figures on their website, especially the $44.99 ROCC, why couldn't they do the same for a sail barge? you figure that a barge would probably be at that price point or even lower. also there's no GI Joe movie on the horizon so that excuse doesn't hold water and this is just my unscientific "observation" but there are probably more SW collectors than there are GI Joe and so if hasbro thinks it's financially feasible for them to offer these vehicles on their own site as exclusives, why not do the same for us SW collectors???

Tycho
07-05-2006, 12:58 AM
Oh I agree with Phantom-Like Menace. He makes a good case. Mine is only that Star Wars is different from all these other "fad and fashionable for the moment" movies.

And as far as what collectors are willing to pay? Look at Attikus' high end Millennium Falcon / Death Star set up (about 3 3/4" action figure size) costing nearly $2,000.

Hasbro barely has to come near $125-200 tops for a Sailbarge (it'd be smaller than my prototype Tantive IV I literally brought to them during Comic Con '99 or '00 (forgot which now) - '99 I think. They estimated that would retail for $250, so you have to think they could make a nice sailbarge for less, especially if Zizzle could retail the Black Pearl for $62! (yes, I know the BP is underscale too, and the sailbarge would be moreso, but still...)

Kidhuman, you are so right! How could I forget Boba Fett and the Weequay?

ReeferShark - keep hoping. We all will help with that.

It's funny that while I should be happy for a great new toy for the POTC collectors here, it ticks me off so much as a SW collector. No actually - it's not very funny. Where's a Hasbro employee so I smack them in the head?!

[EDIT] Figrin: if the POTC BP is smaller than a Sailbarge would have to be (to even still come in decently underscale I'd guess), and the BP is $62, there's no way a Sailbarge would retail for under say, $80. Especially when they are going to re-release the (originally) 1981 AT-AT for $90!

Reefer Shark
07-05-2006, 01:25 AM
I would happily pay $80-90 for a Royal Starship-sized sail barge, but I won't hold my breath for it.

TheCivilCollector
07-05-2006, 02:04 AM
I think Hasbro knows it has the collector market salavating over the new figures. I don't think playsets ever sold too well- Remember all those POTF2 death star playsets that sat on shelves? Or the Theed hanger duel(or whatever)? I got all that stuff on clearance. Besides, I always thought fan-made stuff is about 300% cooler that anything Hasbro could make.

They're right in their thinking that without movie support, kids have lost interest. I know VERY few kids that still care about Star Wars. Just us late-twentysomething schlubs. :-) (I'm including myself in that, natch).

I'll say this- those POTC toys are AWESOME. I'd have bought some of those (esp. Davy Jones & the Black Pearl) if it weren't for the fact that I've practically made a blood oath not to buy anything other than SW stuff anymore.

On the other hand, that POTC carribean stuff is just the right size for customizing.....

BTW-
Don't count on Hasbro running toy ads during the new SW shows. Since the late 80's, the FCC made doing that illegal. Something about shows like Transformers and GI Joe being 30 minute commercials.....

Ah... the good old days.

Phantom-like Menace
07-05-2006, 02:35 AM
if hasbro could sell vehicles for their 3.75" GI Joe figures on their website, especially the $44.99 ROCC, why couldn't they do the same for a sail barge? you figure that a barge would probably be at that price point or even lower. also there's no GI Joe movie on the horizon so that excuse doesn't hold water

At the risk of sounding like I'm copping out on giving you a legitimate answer to your very good points, Hasbro's manner of dealing with G.I. Joe toys is just strange. There are so many things Hasbro does with G.I. Joe that should be done with Star Wars and vice versa that to make comparisons is to lead to upsetting oneself.

The first thing that comes to my mind is army builders. I don't think anyone even had to ask about army builders in G.I. Joe and Hasbro's Joe guys said, "Let's make a pack of, like, five different Vipers." This was followed up immediately by, "Sure, let me get those out the door." I could go up to their Star Wars guys, hold a gun to their heads and demand similar army builders, and they'll hem and haw and maybe say something about an exclusive battlepack if I'm good.

Without trying to sound like a smart-***, I sometimes think G.I. Joe toys are made by Santa, dropped off at Hasbro's headquarters and sold in whichever crazy manner strikes Hasbro's fancy. There is such a marked contrast between the way Hasbro deals with Joe toys and the way they deal with Star Wars toys that it's like two entirely different toy companies.

If I had to guess, and maybe someone can back me up or prove me wrong on this theory, Hasbro has more freedom with Joe products and their designers have more freedom within the company. I've heard, and could be wrong, that Hasbro has severe limits to what it can do with Star Wars on their website because of contracts and agreements with Lucasfilm and retailers. I also figure G.I. Joe represents a much smaller chunk of Hasbro than Star Wars, so Hasbro execs don't see as much reason to stick their fingers into everything and needlessly change things, because they don't see themselves as protecting their bread and butter. Now, in the defense of these Hasbro executives, G.I. Joe hasn't performed well enough not to have the 3 3/4" line all but cancelled and relegated to the website and TRU stores, so maybe someone should have done something. Joe designers may even have more freedom now.

I figure it's like gambling. Last year Star Wars was the big pot. Hasbro was certainly willing to risk large amounts of money, but there was zero possibility they would let it all ride or even come close. G.I. joe is more a side pot. Hasbro has far less problem betting a larger percentage of this pot because they lose smaller.

Tycho
07-05-2006, 02:37 AM
TCC, I know exactly what you mean about not buying into more toylines.

I was tempted by X2 stuff, and now POTC even though I'd never seen the movie. I did look at the figures for custom fodder, but I couldnt visualize any use for them that way. Maybe my imagination is escaping me in my old age.

However, my toy collecting chroncalized (is that a word?):

1992 - Playmates Star Trek (reminded me of Star Wars and there were only 10! Uh-huh.)

1995 - Hasbro Star Wars (there were only 9 and originally I was only going to buy 5 stormtroopers...)

2001 or so - McFarlane Terminator 3 figures (there were only ever a few)

2002 -Art Asylum Star Trek Enterprise figures - there were only 6!

2003 - Transformers Alternators - I mean who could resist? But I'm not a completist.

Besides these, I branched out into:

PlaysKool Star Wars Adventures / Galactic Heroes
Force Battlers
PlaysKool Jedi Force
Star Wars Buddies
Hasbro 12"
Hasbro Unleashed
SideShow 12"
Master Replicas Star Wars (Force FX Lightsabers)

I know I forgot some - but it's time to stop! (and I have to a huge degree compared to how I used to be).

But in spite of all that, there are things like a Sailbarge, young Owen and Beru figures, etc. that I've wanted for a long time now - and that's not going to change, plus I will buy them immediately whenever they are finally issued.

Phantom-like Menace
07-05-2006, 03:01 AM
However, my toy collecting chroncalized (is that a word?):

You're looking for chronicled.

I want to play too, though:

1980-198?: Star Wars, G.I. Joe, and Transformers. The first two were ninety-eight percent of it, but Transformers is included because I always wanted more. My mother just thought they were too expensive.

198?-1990: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

1990-1994: G.I. Joe

1995-Present: Star Wars

January of 2006-Present: Marvel 6" figures

Not a lot of diversity, but a lot of love, and a lot of good times.

I vaguely remember something limiting advertisements, but they certainly could stand to actually advertise Star Wars toys somewhere on television. I seem to remember a commercial or two right around the movies, but that's it.

plasticfetish
07-05-2006, 03:21 AM
I know VERY few kids that still care about Star Wars.I get tired of saying this, but the fact is, that most of the Star Wars toys sold are still being sold to kids. (If they weren't, you can bet that stores would quit carrying them.) Every time I visit TRU or Target, there's some kid with his mom digging through the figures... they don't always find that Jango Fett figure that they're looking for (and yes, that's what the kids want), but they always get something. And then mom says, "OK. You can put that big fill in the blank ship on your birthday/x-mas list.


Don't count on Hasbro running toy ads during the new SW shows. Since the late 80's, the FCC made doing that illegal. Something about shows like Transformers and GI Joe being 30 minute commercials...I think you may be right, but only because Hasbro is probably too cheap to buy commercial air time during something that will more than likely be a prime time show.

My understanding of the law (the childen's television act of 1990), is that TV stations must limit the amount of advertising during children's shows to 12 minutes per hour on weekdays, and 10.5 minutes per hour on weekends. "Tatooine Teens" or whatever the show is going to be called, won't have much to do with that.

But that's beside the point.

----------

I still don't get it...what does Zizzle making the Black Pearl have to do with Hasbro making a Sail Barge?


And Star Wars is the single most-proven "mainstay."...because some very smart marketing person working for George Lucas has made sure that we won't forget about it. There's always "something" going on to keep the brand alive, be it a VHS release, a DVD release, a film release, or maybe just some really clever word of mouth "buzz" like the kind we generate here and on other fan sites. (Oh my gosh! Our forums as a marketing tool? ;))

But that doesn't mean that every year is going to be the year for a $100 Sail Barge to hit the shelves. I'll tell you what the biggest test really is... not what Zizzle is doing for POTC, because that'll be over once the films are gone, but look at what LEGO is putting out right now with a Star Wars logo on it. I'll tell you this though... any smart parent would rather spend the money on a LEGO Sail Barge, than on some big plastic space eater that'll probably break and be worthless.

I'm not saying that Zizzle's pirate ship is a "better" idea than a Sail Barge, I'm just saying that it's an easier thing to sell to the parents (grandparents, etc.) because of the hype surrounding the new films.


If I had to guess, and maybe someone can back me up or prove me wrong on this theory, Hasbro has more freedom with Joe products and their designers have more freedom within the company.Hasbro owns the G.I. Joe name and franchise. It's theirs... they can do whatever they want with it, and they don't have to pay licensing fees or seek approval from anyone first. Their only limitation is demand and cost.

TheCivilCollector
07-05-2006, 03:53 AM
I get tired of saying this, but the fact is, that most of the Star Wars toys sold are still being sold to kids. (If they weren't, you can bet that stores would quit carrying them.)

I'm not sure why it's such a big deal that you would get tired of saying it, but I'll tell you for certain Star Wars is definitely an "out" toy for most kids. I have 4 nephews, and none of them or their friends like SW anymore, no matter how hard I tried to make them fans. My nephews even gave me all their stuff (most of which I gave them). My understanding is that Staw Wars is somewhere around Pokemon in coolness factor(or lack of). Personally, I see MANY more people my age going after Star Wars in stores. I just call 'em like I see 'em. It doesn't matter who's buying, if they sell, stores will carry them. Look at it this way- don't you think the current series are focusing on collectors? (the Vintage line, etc.?). No big deal, it just means I won't have to worry about beating kids to the stores to get the new Jango Fett figure. :-D


My understanding of the law (the childen's television act of 1990), is that TV stations must limit the amount of advertising during children's shows to 12 minutes per hour on weekdays, and 10.5 minutes per hour on weekends. e to do with Hasbro making a Sail Barge?

You're right, that's part of the law. The other is that you cannot advertise toy lines during the show the lines are based on, or for 15 minutes either before or after. It's why you don't see ads for Batman of Teen Titans toys during those shows, for example.

Tycho
07-05-2006, 04:07 AM
The advertising laws: would someone please explain the reasoning behind those?

The situation: A kid watches approximately 22 minutes of Batman in action.

During that time, approximately 30 seconds of a (who is it? Hasbro now?) commercial comes on showing that you can put a Batman figure into a Batmobile car and launch a harpoon at a Joker figure and knock him down and a 6 year old kid appears on TV thinking this is all very exciting.

Flash forward to the same with (name your favorite cartoon show that has a toy line to do with it).

Now play the same commercial during the mother's daytime soap operas.

There's a full hour of Jimmy sleeping with his twin brother Ed's wife who's actually his mother in a past lifetime but she left his father for his uncle in his present lifetime before she was captured by aliens who discovered she actually practiced witchcraft and she cast a spell on Jimmy so that he wouldn't think what he was doing was wrong. Only Ed's priest lifted the cursed witchcraft from him and discovered it wasn't Ed, but rather Jimmy, during his most recent confession. As the tension builds... cut to

...approximately 30 seconds of a (who is it? Hasbro now?) commercial comes on showing that you can put a Batman figure into a Batmobile car and launch a harpoon at a Joker figure and knock him down and a 6 year old kid appears on TV thinking this is all very exciting.

And the mother really doesn't care. She's passionately fantasizing about Jimmy, hoping her husband doesn't come home for lunch, as that would give her just enough time to play with her favorite toy while the kid takes a nap or is in pre-school.

TheCivilCollector
07-05-2006, 04:21 AM
Haha, that description was priceless, Tycho. :grin: Although, I don't think many kids are watching Jimmy/Ed/Ed's wife's sordid alien/witchcraft/clergy love affair. :-)

It's because long ago, in the year 1985 and thereabouts, a group of ****ed off parents were tired of little Johnny wetting his pants to get the new Zartan toy when he saw the commercial for it that he just saw spotlighted in the latest episode of GI Joe.

The FCC thought parents had a point, and saw shows like GI Joe, Transformers, My Little Pony, Jem, and everything else as little more than 30 minute commercials for the toys they were based on.

Ever notice that in the intro to Joe and Transformers (and others), they show literally EVERY toy out for the line? My friend noted that whenever a new character or vehicle came out, he/she/it was absolutely the BADASS thing and could single-handed wipe out all the bad guys/good guys. Then, the next episode, it was mysteriously de-powered.

Bait and switch, guys. :yes:

plasticfetish
07-05-2006, 04:22 AM
don't you think the current series are focusing on collectors?In part... and I'm not trying to suggest that collectors aren't a major part of the toy buying audience, but they (we) aren't a majority. I'm sorry... I calls 'em like I sees 'em too. I've got an 8 year old boy who has lots of friends that are 8 year old boys, and when they come over they freak out when they see his toys.

That's who I see shopping at places like TRU most of the time... "most," not always. I still see plenty of shifty eyed man-boys wandering the isles, but you've gotta remember, just because you and I are in there for 30 minutes shopping, that's not a whole day for that store. Plenty of kids wander through between opening and closing.

So sure, there are waves of figures that are geared toward collectors, there are waves geared toward kids, and then there are waves of figures that are geared toward both.

TheCivilCollector
07-05-2006, 04:33 AM
That's who I see shopping at places like TRU most of the time... "most," not always. I still see plenty of shifty eyed man-boys wandering the isles, but you've gotta remember, just because you and I are in there for 30 minutes shopping, that's not a whole day for that store. Plenty of kids wander through between opening and closing.

Yeah, you got a point. And to be fair, my nephews are all way more into basketball than toys. Maybe they just don't have the imagination I did.
::vividly recalls epic battles played out on the front lawn::


...and then there are waves of figures that are geared toward both.

Or squarely at kids: like the Star Wars Galactic Choppers- Blechh!!! Sometimes I have no idea what hasbro is thinking.

plasticfetish
07-05-2006, 04:40 AM
Or squarely at kids: like the Star Wars Galactic Choppers- Blechh!!! Sometimes I have no idea what hasbro is thinking.My kid thinks the choppers are idiotic. He makes fun of them... it's pretty funny. I really don't think hasbro was thinking with that one.

...I've gotta add shows like He-man, Thundercats, etc. to your list of shows from earlier. I remember my younger brother (he's about 13 years younger than me) being nuts for He-Man, and I used to laugh at that show because it was such a brilliant cartoon/commercial. Some parents can be such a pain in the a**. I love that stuff! those are probably the same parents that complained and had cool toys removed from cereal boxes. (Lame.)

TheCivilCollector
07-05-2006, 04:50 AM
...I've gotta add shows like He-man, Thundercats, etc. to your list of shows from earlier.

Definitely. I think EVERYTHING had a toy line-cartoon tie in back then: Wheeled Warriors, M.A.S.K., Luminaries, the lists goes on and on. The 80's were definitely the golden age of product tie-ins.

I always wondered why they took the cool stuff out of cereal boxes. I mean, that was the REASON to get the cereal. But alas, I've answered my own question. :grin:

Phantom-like Menace
07-05-2006, 05:24 AM
There's a full hour of Jimmy sleeping with his twin brother Ed's wife who's actually his mother in a past lifetime but she left his father for his uncle in his present lifetime before she was captured by aliens who discovered she actually practiced witchcraft and she cast a spell on Jimmy so that he wouldn't think what he was doing was wrong. Only Ed's priest lifted the cursed witchcraft from him and discovered it wasn't Ed, but rather Jimmy, during his most recent confession.

You left out amnesia, and I'm only assuming Jimmy or Ed is the evil twin. Otherwise, that did make my morning.

I'm not going to pretend I know for certain who is buying Star Wars toys, but I never see children buying them, and each time I see someone buying them, they're adults, usually collectors or scalpers going on about UPCs and rarer figures. Maybe children are purchasing more pegwarmers than we are. If they really think children are the largest group purchasing these toys, why is it the case that they aren't doing something about the fact that only adult collectors have the finances and time to get that Jango Fett figure we were just talking about?

On the subject of whether or not toys sell well enough in movie years to support vehicles, I still wish there had been no movie last year or that Hasbro would put out new figures this year in the same quantities they put out last year. I still think Hasbro's great success last year was largely based on the fact that they actually made quality product and made it available. It kind of becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. Hasbro and Wal-Mart both decide non movie years won't sell toys, so hardly any toys are made and those that are made largely suck, so they don't sell well. Then Hasbro and Wal-Mart decide it's a movie year, suddenly there are droves of awesome toys, and lo and behold, they sell well.

plasticfetish
07-05-2006, 06:42 AM
If they really think children are the largest group purchasing these toys, why is it the case that they aren't doing something about the fact that only adult collectors have the finances and time to get that Jango Fett figure we were just talking about?I'm not sure what you mean.

But you're right, the kids don't have money... their parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, the friend they invited to their birthday party or that older cousin they haven't seem for three years that'll be at Grandma's this Christmas to exchange gifts, all have the money.

...and if little Johnny can't find the Jango Fett figure that he's digging around for, unlike most of us (or not) he'll probably find something else pretty quickly, 'cause Mom isn't going to stand around all day... so he grabs two Titaniums off the pegs instead. Mom says, "Are you sure that's what you want?" Johnny says, "Yeah, these are good... they don't have the other thing." Mom looks over at me, sees that I'm a toy nerd and asks, "Do you know if there's a Jango Fett figure in here?" I say, "No, probably not, but they re-issue older figures all the time, so keep looking." She says, "Okay, thanks." and then they wander away to look for that My Little Pony play set for sister.

It happens to me all the time. ;)

dindae
07-05-2006, 09:00 AM
Typically I don't see kids when I'm shopping but I figure that is because kids don't go shopping with their parents during the hours I go shopping. I see them a lot more on the the weekends.

As far as the Sail Barge goes, if Hasbro is making a Sith Infiltrator that is worth anything there is no reason not to make a Sail Barge. PF, I just bought the Lego version yesterday and love it.

As far as the Black Pearl goes, it is more comparable to the Millenium Falcon than the Sail Barge in terms of its importance to the story so I don't think Hasbro is going to look at it and jump on the making bigger items for us.

JediTricks
07-05-2006, 04:30 PM
Tycho, if you feel that strongly about getting the question asked, in your sig put a comment about voting for it in the questions voting thread and link to the voting thread.

This thing would be a big-ticket christmas item, you make sure it's big with lots of play features and places for figures to hang out, then you ensure that a lot of figures themed to go with it are on shelves when it comes out and stay there for at least 3 months, then you rerelease the Skiff.


Jabba - deluxe figure repack I guessDefinitely, and he shouldn't be the only deluxe out at the time for it.

Bib Fortuna - 2006 repackMeh, I guess, it's a crappy figure though.

Leia - 2004 repackThe OTC version of the POTJ figure. Probably should also put out this year's Boushh as well just to ensure some parents who don't want half-naked Leia will still get kids a Leia action figure from that part of the movie.

Luke -2004 repackI'd prefer new (that fig is flawed) but this makes sense I guess, and should have interchangable right hands - normal, shot, gloved.

Han 2006 repackSure, plus with the gun accessory from Luke Jedi you just mentioned.

Chewie any repackNo, wrong, bad, naughty. Chewie's hair is different in ROTJ, but the current ROTJ Chewie has pre-bent arms. I think Hasbro needs to get the VOTC Chewie ROTJ out, maybe as a deluxe set with another character since he's a bit complex.

R2 - 2004 Bar2-D2 repackI guess, but I'd really like to see them incorporate the saber-launch somehow, maybe have a hole in R2's dome and a hilt, it doesn't "launch" but you have to pull it out, this would be an easy retool since Bar2 is one of the only R2-D2 figures without a lightpipe to get in the way.

C-3PO (one eye version w. S.Crumb)But would it be a new figure, or just a repainted figure? If they do the 1-eye thing, they should have it as a second, separate head. And not chromed, he's all dirty anyway. This may require a new sculpt. Maybe this could be Chewie's co-star in the deluxe set, since 3PO likely wouldn't sell as well.

Lando 2004 repackYup.

Klaatu - single card the Skiff Guard 3-pack (or make the original vintage one)Modern one is fine.

Barada - 2006 repackSure.

Nikto - single card the Skiff Guard 3-pack (or make a new one)No need for a new one, current one is fine.

Salacious Crumb - a nice pack-in for whomever - w. C-3PO would be niceIf they don't do a Chewie/3PO 2pack, this is the next best choice. Or with Jabba dlx.

Gamorrean Guard - these never shelf-warmed: 2004 repackI don't remember Gamorreans on the Sail Barge, but why not. Figure's hand needs to be opened up to hold accessories, or just do a new one finally, the old one is good but isn't flawless.

Meanwhile Tessek was one of the best 2001 POTJ sculpts they could bring back into service.Yeah, he's a must.

There was nothing wrong with 1998's Ree-Yees, or 8D8.Sure, both are good. No 8D8 on Sail Barge though.

- or 1997's EV-9D9Er... yeah, there's something very wrong with it, it's not that good, it uses the vintage sculpt with only some changes. Plus, she wasn't on the Barge.

You left out:
- Yak Face, might as well include the '97 version.
- Dengar, Saga version is great.
- Bossk, Saga version will have to do.
- Boba Fett, TSC version I suppose.
- Pote Snitkin (Skiff driver), '98 version is good but doesn't fit in skiff pilot area without taking off cloak, they should retool the skiff mold to accomodate.
- Weequay, the '97 version has its charms but we really should have a new one.
- The Max Rebo Band trio, these 3 are on the barge, the fake SE band is not, should just use the POTF2 figures but no idea how to package them really, deluxe Rebo w/ Red Ball organ (which probably won't fit in the Barge :p) and deluxe Sy Snootles w/ Droopy McCool I guess.
- there are various others never done as figures yet, like the guy who shoots Luke in the hand (his name escapes me at the moment), gotta have those types.

Gee Hasbro, I can really see why you wouldn't want to make a sail barge toy, it might lose money on its own and then you'd only be able to make money by selling all those figures to everybody who bought the barge, plus selling them 2 skiff vehicles as well - yeah, there's a real conundrum for you.



The thing is The Black PEarl is 62 bucks at EE(preorder), probably 59.99 at retail when it hits.EE's prices for Zizzle POTC products are around 20% over MSRP, check out their case of 4" figures if you don't believe me. So their $62 for the Black Pearl translates to $50, just like I said before. And if Hasbro's Sail Barge were $50 but worth $75, they could make so much money selling the 25 other figures Tycho and I listed plus the Skiff vehicle which is a totally paid-for mold at this point. Co-sells are where the money's at, vehicles are supposed to sell figures and the barge would sell more figures than any other vehicle or playset probably.



It all comes down to the fact that PotC has a movie coming out. No matter how copiously movie toys clog the shelves, toy companies are convinced that movies are where the money is. They'll spend all that money on the license and all that money on manufacturing just so they can sell as many toys as possible before the next big movie opens next week, but not even a respectable fraction of that money goes into nurturing existing toylines.Then it's a good thing for Hasbro that next year is SW's 30th anniversary and ROTJ will be coming out in theaters in 3-D probably near the end of the year. If Hasbro puts fire under this, they can really pull it off.

BTW, your later post about Hasbro's limitations with SW not being with Joe is correct, both in sales methods and in product (GI Joe being an in-house brand, they can do whatever, but SW has to go through LucasLicensing approval; and there are some contractual issues about them selling directly online, though they have been relaxed since the '98 debacle).



I still don't get it...what does Zizzle making the Black Pearl have to do with Hasbro making a Sail Barge? If some upstart little company can make a big, killer vehicle playset for $50 for a licensed movie product, why the hell can't Hasbro do the same thing, especially with such a similar vehicle???


I love this argument about who is buying SW, the reason kids abandoned the SW line back in 2000 was partly because of Hasbro's heavily-increased price ($7 for a 4" piece of crap back in 1999 and 2000 was shocking, today it's still shocking but somehow we pretend kids don't care - I tell you what though, I recently bought a bunch of $5 figures from TRU, 2 Justice Leauge Unlimited and 2 POTC figures, for $20 plus tax I walked out with 4 awesome figures, but for $20 plus tax kids can get just 2 SW figures (3 would be $21 plus tax, somehow that does make a difference to the parents I've seen there) and they're tiny and unsatisfying at the price and the crappy case assortments mean they'll have a hard time finding who they really want anyway... but I digress) and Hasbro had a serious marketing problem in that they had no idea how to market the line to kids (at the time, the line was selling to kids without commercials, the line had been popular on its own and the Special Editions made it moreso, but TPM didn't catch the imaginations for as long and the line was all-new characters so kids abandoned it in droves). Until Hasbro can figure out how to correctly market the line to kids (here's a crazy idea, make better vehicles and playsets, then in the commercial show kids playing on the carpet or on the lawn with their myriad of figures interacting WITH THE VEHICLES AND PLAYSETS!!!) they're going to be contstantly screwed over with the fickle interests of young people, especially when they try to sell toys to kids with the "collectibility" aspect they're playing now.

Tycho
07-05-2006, 04:43 PM
I totally agree with JediTricks above, and I changed my signature as he suggested. Let's get this question asked people! Hasbro needs to cough up a serious answer!

JediTricks
07-05-2006, 05:37 PM
Here's how I'd do cases to go with the Sail Barge:

Deluxe asst:
1x Jabba
1x Ephant Mon w/ Salacious Crumb (!!! just came to me)
1x Sy Snootles & Droopy McCool
1x Max Rebo w/ red ball organ

Basic asst 1:
2x Luke Jedi
2x VOTC Chewie
1x C-3PO
1x Slave Leia
1x Dengar
1x Bib Fortuna
1x Tessek
1x Gamorrean Guard
1x Klaatu
1x Yak Face

Basic asst 2:
2x Boba Fett
2x Weequay
1x Han Skiff
1x Bar2-D2
1x Lando Skiff
1x Bossk
1x Ree-Yees
1x Pote Snitkin
1x Nikto
1x Barada

Basic repack asst 3 (focus on replenishing heroes & army builders):
2x Chewie
2x Boba Fett
2x Han
1x 3PO
3x Gamorrean Guard
2x Klaatu

Basic repack asst 4 (focus on replenishing heroes & army builders):
2x Luke
2x Lando
1x R2
1x Leia
2x Nikto
2x Barada
2x Weequay

If you buy the Deluxe asst, and basics 1 and 2, and the sail barge, and the skiff, you have pretty much the entire battle right there. A parent could end up with a really stunning christmas display if their kid was into the ROTJ scene, and a few months later they could go back to the store and get a few more of the army builder figures.

plasticfetish
07-05-2006, 06:00 PM
and they're tiny and unsatisfying at the price and the crappy case assortments mean they'll have a hard time finding who they really want anyway....Which is why so many kids jumped over to Transformers instead. For the money, you get so much more. The high price of Star Wars figures is directly related to the collector market anyway... that's what we get for being such a big part of who buys those toys.

dindae
07-05-2006, 06:48 PM
I know you are gearing for kids JT but 5 waves of mostly repacks - no thanks. :bored: I know that you don't think that Hasbro has any money to do any sculpting but c'mon.

Kidhuman
07-05-2006, 10:04 PM
What does Zizzle's black peral have to do with a sail Barge?

Answer(IMO) -

Hasbro states a sail barge is too big and would cost alot of money. The Black Pearl is 2.5 feet long and cost 62 at EE(according to JT should be 50 at retail). The point being 50 bucks for a ship is nothing when alot of people spent their money on a 40 dollar TIE fighter and a 45 dollar gunship.

For 50 bucks and being brand new, it doesnt say alot for creating a new mold. It can be done and should be done. Looking at the Pearl even for 60 bucks, does it compare to 90 for an AT-AT which is a re-used, rehashed mold?

Tycho
07-05-2006, 11:07 PM
I know you are gearing for kids JT but 5 waves of mostly repacks - no thanks. :bored: I know that you don't think that Hasbro has any money to do any sculpting but c'mon.


Nah, what JT was doing is showing how making a sailbarge would create profits for Hasbro from them selling older figures that they didn't have to invest any more money into sculpting. YOU (Dindae) and myself as well, could just buy the Sailbarge. But for the mom and kids who just got back into Star Wars from the 3-D 30th Anniversary releases, they could sell a lot of figures (listed above) to populate that Battle of Carkoon scene, plus bring the Tatooine Skiff back out there, which people here may have also never found (I'm not speaking for myself in this case - I got 3, hehe)

But accessorizing a sale is the key to moving merchandise. If you don't have the figures listed, you may be inspired to get them if you were bought a large sailbarge to populate with action figures.

Hasbro needs to be shown how doing a Sailbarge would be profitable for them. Sure we'd like Sgt. Doalyn, Yarna, the human dude with the funky helmet that shoots Luke's hand (JT mentioned), etc. They could be thrown in the mix - but look at the ton of other figures Hasbro could sell again. Just like any Batman line has to keep Batman himself on the racks, Star Wars has to keep Luke or Anakin out there. (Hasbro does a crappy job at that as it is, anyway). But besides him being an awesome figure, look at VOTC Luke - only the Bikerscout sells better - it's always Han, Greedo, and the Tusken left on the racks. If he comes with a lightsaber, folks (probably kids) go for him. I see the Tatooine Wave Luke moving more slowly than the VOTC pilot one. T-Luke doesn't come with an ignighted lightsaber.

plasticfetish
07-06-2006, 03:59 AM
...making a sailbarge would create profits for Hasbro from them selling older figures that they didn't have to invest any more money into sculpting.

But accessorizing a sale is the key to moving merchandise. If you don't have the figures listed, you may be inspired to get them if you were bought a large sailbarge to populate with action figures.That's spot on, and exactly why Zizzle is putting out that boat -- a toy that they're probably not going to make much money on. It's all about moving those little plastic figures that cost next to nothing to make. Anyone that's worked retail knows that selling is all about getting the customer to leave with multiple items in their bag. (And then maybe you'll buy some batteries and candy also. ;))

The big difference between Zizzle and Hasbro, is that Hasbro hasn't got anything to prove. This is a big deal for Zizzle (I'd imagine) with POTC being their first big license. It's sort of a "let us show you what we can do" kind of situation.

Could Hasbro make money from a Sail Barge? Yes, but there would have to be a pretty good tie-in for them to use as a motivator. I don't see a Sail Barge being cheap. If the Skiff was $50, then the Sail Barge would need to be twice and probably three times that, because it would be an all new vehicle. So, a $150 vehicle, which is really a playset if you think about it, would be a big deal. Maybe if the new live action show has something to do with Tatooine and Jabba plays a major part, they could put this out. It'd be perfect really, but otherwise it's just a fantasy. (Heck, at this point I'd be amazed if they put out the Skiff yet again.)

There's also the option of them putting a Sail Barge out when the they release the 3-D versions of the OT, but I'd assume that Hasbro will stick to rehashing old ships and figures for that. (That's when we'll get the Skiff again... my guess.)

Phantom-like Menace
07-06-2006, 07:01 AM
I'm not sure what you mean.

It was just a throwaway observance. If Hasbro feels only children are purchasing these toys, why do they do nothing about the fact that some of these figures are so difficult to get that only twentysomething or older insomniacs can get them from Wal-Mart? I believe their model for purchase has mommie and/or daddie shopping with junior and junior demands a toy and the parent breaks down, heads to the toy aisle and purchases one. That doesn't happen at 3:00am as soon as the person stocking cracks open a case.

Though the above has had me thinking. The only figures that don't pegwarm in my area are the figures you can only get by hipchecking Wal-Mart employees in the wee hours of the morning or making a commando raid on TRU right as it opens up at 10:00am. Kids certainly aren't buying these hard to get figures and no one is buying the other ones.

JT, your deluxe case assortment needs heroes! Maybe some sort of deluxe Boba Fett.

dindae
07-06-2006, 09:06 AM
Nah, what JT was doing is showing how making a sailbarge would create profits for Hasbro from them selling older figures that they didn't have to invest any more money into sculpting. YOU (Dindae) and myself as well, could just buy the Sailbarge. But for the mom and kids who just got back into Star Wars from the 3-D 30th Anniversary releases, they could sell a lot of figures (listed above) to populate that Battle of Carkoon scene, plus bring the Tatooine Skiff back out there, which people here may have also never found (I'm not speaking for myself in this case - I got 3, hehe).

I understand the intention but part of what Hasbro looks at is keeping both collectors happy and trying to appeal to the kids. Throwing out tons of repacks bores collectors. That is the reason I stopped collecting carded figures. To suffer through 5 waves of repacks is a long time (at least 4 months). Two waves (a deluxe wave could be thrown in simultaniously) should be sufficient.

Tycho
07-06-2006, 02:24 PM
Dindae, it may be 5 case assortments, but they don't have to release them over 4-5 months. They could refresh their stock that's shipping with JT's "refresher cases" within 3-4 weeks. Those case breakdowns are just to make sure BobaFett and Luke Skywalker are always available because the Weequay is not going to sell as fast, and neither is Bib Fortuna.

As to carded collecting - I understand that appeals to some - I'm really glad I didn't get into that. If I was, I'd make up some rule such as "collect the in-a-scene cards only" such as 2004's OTC and 2005's P-OTC-syle, along with 2006's OTC that I currently didn't already have - plus I wouldn't be able to pass up the VOTC. There are ways to not get repeats even if you're doing that - but sure, you may not be able to get ALL the figures they make then (ROTS Polis Massan comes to mind - there's one I'm not expecting to be packaged on a "scene card." But who knows?)

Banthaholic
07-06-2006, 03:05 PM
I agree where is my Jabba the Hutt sailbarge. It's a vehicle we've been hurting for since 1983.

JediTricks
07-06-2006, 04:25 PM
Nah, what JT was doing is showing how making a sailbarge would create profits for Hasbro from them selling older figures that they didn't have to invest any more money into sculpting. YOU (Dindae) and myself as well, could just buy the Sailbarge. But for the mom and kids who just got back into Star Wars from the 3-D 30th Anniversary releases, they could sell a lot of figures (listed above) to populate that Battle of Carkoon scene, plus bring the Tatooine Skiff back out there, which people here may have also never found (I'm not speaking for myself in this case - I got 3, hehe)

But accessorizing a sale is the key to moving merchandise. If you don't have the figures listed, you may be inspired to get them if you were bought a large sailbarge to populate with action figures.

Hasbro needs to be shown how doing a Sailbarge would be profitable for them. Sure we'd like Sgt. Doalyn, Yarna, the human dude with the funky helmet that shoots Luke's hand (JT mentioned), etc. They could be thrown in the mix - but look at the ton of other figures Hasbro could sell again. Just like any Batman line has to keep Batman himself on the racks, Star Wars has to keep Luke or Anakin out there. (Hasbro does a crappy job at that as it is, anyway). But besides him being an awesome figure, look at VOTC Luke - only the Bikerscout sells better - it's always Han, Greedo, and the Tusken left on the racks. If he comes with a lightsaber, folks (probably kids) go for him. I see the Tatooine Wave Luke moving more slowly than the VOTC pilot one. T-Luke doesn't come with an ignighted lightsaber.Wow Tycho, great post, you totally nailed it!


Look at it this way you guys (that includes you Hasbro ;)), Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo sell their video game consoles at a loss because they know that in order to really get the most use out of them, consumers will have to spend money on several game titles so they make the money there as that market is infinitely expandable. This isn't a new concept, this was Kenner's business model in the Star Wars line from 1978 to 1985. Hasbro could try to make a profit off a $60 Sail Barge and penny-pinch the mold so it isn't as good, or they can sell the best Sail Barge possible at little to no profit but then get the following sales from consumers who want the following products that go with it (I'm going to assume we get a $1 pricedrop soon, wishful thinking I know but still):

$10 Jabba
$10 Ephant Mon w/ Salacious Crumb
$10 Sy Snootles & Droopy McCool
$10 Max Rebo w/ red ball organ
$6 Luke Jedi
$6 Chewie
$6 C-3PO
$6 Slave Leia
$6 Dengar
$6 Bib Fortuna
$6 Tessek
$12 Gamorrean Guards x2
$6 Klaatu
$6 Yak Face
$6 Boba Fett
$12 Weequays x2
$6 Han Skiff
$6 Bar2-D2
$6 Lando Skiff
$6 Bossk
$6 Ree-Yees
$6 Pote Snitkin
$6 Nikto
$6 Barada
$40 Tatooine Skiff x2

That's as much as $192 in sales, plus kids who are into it will likely want multiples of the hero figures, and that's just on stuff that's already out and in the scene, there's also Jawas in the scene, you could pack in 8D8 and EV-9D9 like Tycho suggested, Boushh, some cantina aliens, even some Sandtroopers and Dewbacks, all of which are products whose molds are PAID FOR so they're nearly 100% profit (mold budgets being the biggest concern for Hasbro), and that springboards into new molds that have never been done before like Sgt Doallyn and such. Plus not every collector has all those figures, and some might want duplicates to keep carded. It's a world of profits that Hasbro should be looking at with the Sail Barge, yet I fear they're not.



If the Skiff was $50, then the Sail Barge would need to be twice and probably three times that, because it would be an all new vehicle. So, a $150 vehicle, which is really a playset if you think about it, would be a big deal.Uhh, why would the Skiff, a mold Hasbro never had to pay for in the first place, need to be $50 when it most recently sold for $20? If Zizzle can make a Black Pearl that big for $50, there's no reason Hasbro can't make a Jabba's Sail Barge that size or larger for the same price, and the larger they make it for $50 or $65, the more toys consumers will buy to fill it up. And heck, they already have 1 part of the ship tooled up, they have the deck cannon from the POTJ line.



JT, your deluxe case assortment needs heroes! Maybe some sort of deluxe Boba Fett.Hasbro has a bad track record at releasing heroes as deluxes, they cut too many corners or try to include junk that shouldn't be there. Jabba is a main character and I think he'll move the deluxe line, Ephant is a highly sought-after figure and will keep cases moving, and parents will probably get the Max Rebo band sets for their own nostalgia.

I think Hasbro needs to strengthen the brand by ensuring the RIGHT figures pegwarm, kids go to stores and generally want to see an assortment of exciting hero figures and main characters, so if all they see is Poggle the Lesser and Lushros Dofine, they're going to lose interest quickly. Once major retailers aren't afraid of the right figures pegwarming, they'll start putting out cases with more secondary figures even though there's still product on the shelf.



I understand the intention but part of what Hasbro looks at is keeping both collectors happy and trying to appeal to the kids. Throwing out tons of repacks bores collectors. That is the reason I stopped collecting carded figures. To suffer through 5 waves of repacks is a long time (at least 4 months). Two waves (a deluxe wave could be thrown in simultaniously) should be sufficient.During the modern line's heyday, collectors were less than 30% of the SW sales market, kids were the powerhouse. Once Ep 1 came by, kids dropped to like 20%, it's not that there was a great influx of collectors, it's that SO MANY kids abandoned the line. Kids are the powerhouse of the market still, collectors are very difficult to appease and hoard the best figures and their interest draws scalpers, collectors complain nonstop about pegwarming even when it's pegwarmers that the kid market wants to buy (this complaining is partly the retailers' fault).

POTJ cases worked great for new figures but not as well once the figures became more stale, case assortments do have to be adjusted to minimize pegwarming and maximize interest. What I listed wasn't 5 waves of repacks, it was 1 deluxe wave and 2 basic waves, but case assortments have to adjust with the market's changing interests so that's why I shuffled 2 extension cases in there as well. The time period should be about 3 months total to ensure maximum coverage, new product cases can be pushed during this same time - we expect everything now-now-now thanks to the internet telling us within hours of when a new case hits shelves but kids take a lot longer to find that sort of thing out.

plasticfetish
07-06-2006, 05:03 PM
Uhh, why would the Skiff, a mold Hasbro never had to pay for in the first place, need to be $50 when it most recently sold for $20?What did the Skiff retail for when it came out last? My bad... maybe I was thinking about something else. But just the same, you're not going to get a Sail Barge for under $100 (even if they can save a dime because of the deck cannon.)

...the cost wasn't my main point anyway. It was the marketability of the thing...

JediTricks
07-06-2006, 05:23 PM
POTF2 Tatooine Skiff, Target exclusive in '99, $19.99. And it came with a pack-in figure in a fancy diorama box no less.

I think you're wrong about the pricepoint on the Sail Barge, look at Zizzle's Black Pearl, it's $50 and big (those are SW-sized figures in that photo) and Hasbro could make one that price and size and it'd be satisfactory (if they could make it bigger for $65, kids could fit more figures inside and thus would buy more figures).

As for marketing, I maintain that with ROTJ 3-D being released next year, there will be an opportunity then to warrant it.

TheCivilCollector
07-06-2006, 05:55 PM
I got my skiff for $24.99. Except fot the very rare exception, that's the most I'll spend on a vehicle.

The Sail Barge might be one of those exceptions.

(as was the ATAT, Naboo Starship, FX X-Wing, and ARC Fighter, eventually)

plasticfetish
07-06-2006, 06:07 PM
As for marketing, I maintain that with ROTJ 3-D being released next year, there will be an opportunity then to warrant it.I agree... but it would need to be connected to something like that, and only if Lucas really puts it out like a big deal. (Is ROTJ 3-D coming out next year though? I thought they were doing them in order with TPM first.)

Hey look, I can see them doing it, it's just that they'd need a really good tie-in and some serious support from Lucas and Co. Zizzle doesn't have to push the POTC brand to sell their toys right now, because Disney is doing all of the work for them... the name is everywhere, and that's what it boils down to.

I'm amazed that we're getting an AT-AT repaint at this point. A big all new ship like a Sail Barge would be pretty surprising.

JediTricks
07-06-2006, 11:12 PM
I got my skiff for $24.99. Except fot the very rare exception, that's the most I'll spend on a vehicle.

The Sail Barge might be one of those exceptions.

(as was the ATAT, Naboo Starship, FX X-Wing, and ARC Fighter, eventually)That's 5 exceptions. ;) Did you buy the Skiff from Target or an e-tailer?



I agree... but it would need to be connected to something like that, and only if Lucas really puts it out like a big deal. (Is ROTJ 3-D coming out next year though? I thought they were doing them in order with TPM first.)30th anniversary of SW, no way they're not making a big deal out of that. I am not totally sure if ROTJ 3-D is coming out next year, the article wasn't clear on the timeline, but I hope it's the case.


Hey look, I can see them doing it, it's just that they'd need a really good tie-in and some serious support from Lucas and Co. Zizzle doesn't have to push the POTC brand to sell their toys right now, because Disney is doing all of the work for them... the name is everywhere, and that's what it boils down to.

I'm amazed that we're getting an AT-AT repaint at this point. A big all new ship like a Sail Barge would be pretty surprising.True, but Hasbro has done crazier, and it's not like the brand is getting any stronger so far so better to get big stuff done and appeal to parents who want to buy kids big SW stuff for xmas.

Phantom-like Menace
07-07-2006, 12:01 AM
I'm reading the last couple of pages and I'm intrigued. Treating big-ticket vehicles and playsets the same way video game companies treat consoles is interesting, but I'm curious how it would work. How often would Hasbro be able to release a big vehicle or playset? Once a year? How much would the mark-up per figure be if they recoup losses by increasing figure prices? Would we be paying twelve dollars per figure? More? Since the idea would be to release one large vehicle to drive sales of related figures, would we be stuck with only one type of figure for an entire year or whatever period between release of large items? In other words, would releasing a sailbarge and driving figure sales for that one item mean we spend an entire year with only Jabba's Palace figures?

I certainly would be interested in buying a giant, elaborate sailbarge for a pittance. Maybe something almost as big and impressive as the G.I. Joe Mobile Command Center for maybe eighty dollars. I'd consider that a steal, and I don't even want a sailbarge. I actually deplore almost every background character in Jabba's Palace, but I would happily buy a large number of twelve dollar figures to populate my disgustingly awesome new sailbarge. If it's disgustingly awesome, I'd spend fifteen per figure. I'd even buy Yarna Wuzzerface

JediTricks
07-07-2006, 01:08 AM
I'm reading the last couple of pages and I'm intrigued. Treating big-ticket vehicles and playsets the same way video game companies treat consoles is interesting, but I'm curious how it would work. How often would Hasbro be able to release a big vehicle or playset? Once a year? Once a year, maybe twice a year depending on how the line and the market is doing.


How much would the mark-up per figure be if they recoup losses by increasing figure prices? Would we be paying twelve dollars per figure? More? Since the idea would be to release one large vehicle to drive sales of related figures, would we be stuck with only one type of figure for an entire year or whatever period between release of large items? In other words, would releasing a sailbarge and driving figure sales for that one item mean we spend an entire year with only Jabba's Palace figures?No markup! They're not selling figures at $7 as it is, if they want to make money with multi-unit cross-sales they need to lower it back to the industry-magic price of $5 - $7 @ 10,000 sales isn't as good as $5 @ 100,000 sales. I think the Tatooine figures need a whole season, 3 months, at least to properly sell, but that'd require Hasbro shifting how they view the line and how the work with retailers, and new off-theme releases can be peppered through that.

Phantom-like Menace
07-07-2006, 02:44 AM
I really don't hate this line of thinking. Whether there would be a mark-up or not, put me down as not being offended if there were in this hypothetical model.

I think Hasbro would really need to sell these high-ticket items. The largest reason that a toy needs movie support is because toy companies want the movie to do the advertisement for them. I know there are more Star Wars projects coming out, but they are not going to have the punch of anything before them, and if Hasbro were to do something like this, they have to actually push and push hard.

Designing these toys would be a treat. A great deal of effort would have to go into providing things for figures to do, because kids have got to burn with need to have another figure to occupy that play area. Hasbro could really get into the unseen places for an entire expanded universe right inside a familiar vehicle or playset. Hasbro can even do things like repaint Barada, rename him and package him as the sailbarge pilot. Those crappy little vehicles that came with the deluxe line back in the late nineties would look a lot less crappy if they were a motor pool of vehicles in the back of the sailbarge. They'd be cheap and easy to add and would demand to have figures purchased to use them.

This is starting to be Dear Hasbro material. A loss taken on an awesome vehicle or playset (Figures NOT included, actually) with the intent on making a killing on associated figures is sweet. I know I'm being roped in for figures I don't want and I'd be willing to buy these.

plasticfetish
07-07-2006, 03:43 AM
and it's not like the brand is getting any strongerI'm not so sure...

The largest reason that a toy needs movie support is because toy companies want the movie to do the advertisement for them. I know there are more Star Wars projects coming out, but they are not going to have the punch of anything before them...My thought is that the live action TV show will play a huge part in giving the brand a goose. If they decide to go with a "bounty hunter" theme or something like that, there's going to be a huge potential for sales. I imagine the show being something like Xena or Farscape in structure, and I can easily imagine them building it around a lot of kid and collector friendly ideas. I'm seeing playsets, vehicles and plenty of figures to go along with whatever they put out. (Again, I could see Jabba the Hut in there, and I could see them doing a Sail Barge playset because of that.)

On a semi-related note, anyone find it weird that we haven't heard much about the new CG cartoon that they'd talked about developing before the live action show?

TheCivilCollector
07-07-2006, 03:47 AM
That's 5 exceptions. ;) Did you buy the Skiff from Target or an e-tailer?

5 exceptions over about 8 years! ;) Lucky enough to find the skiff at Target, a long time ago now!

Tycho
07-07-2006, 04:55 AM
I found this old thread:

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24493


Be warned: these pictures will really tick you off at Hasbro!

Let's keep the discussion in this new thread however. We have 2 similar newer threads going (the one about the V-wing and Sith Infiltrator is starting to mirror this discussion quite closely).

We don't need another thread. We just need Hasbro to get off their arses and do something about capital ships or farm out the license to some company who will.

JediTricks
07-07-2006, 02:38 PM
I'm not so sure...
My thought is that the live action TV show will play a huge part in giving the brand a goose.Well, that's 2 years away, maybe more, McCallum said they were looking towards the end of '08 I believe.



5 exceptions over about 8 years! ;) Lucky enough to find the skiff at Target, a long time ago now!No, it's 5 exceptions over 30 years. :D Still, you have a few exceptions, so even like-minded collectors could have a few more.


Tycho, I think those 2 Star Destroyers are WAAAAAY too big for this discussion, I think they prove conclusively that there's no chance in hell Hasbro will ever offer something like that, and capital ships should be left to Action Fleet sized stuff.

That Sail Barge though, that's awesome, I bet if Hasbro marketed it it'd cost $120, but ours could be about 2/3rds of that length and $65 I think. Maybe if the exterior sides were recycled panels so the sides were not part of the main tooling, and the nose would have to be way more blunt, but I think Hasbro could really pull that one off. Heck, even if it was exactly the size of Zizzle's Black Pearl and $50 I'd be happy.

Tycho
07-07-2006, 03:15 PM
I totally agree with JT on the Sailbarge issue.

As for the Star Destroyer (and Blockade Runner for that matter) I think Hasbro should farm those out to another company then - one who will still produce for the 3 3/4" sized figures. They could go on making Republic cruisers, the Mon Calamari's Home One, all of that stuff - though the first 2 I mentioned would sell the most profitably.

JediTricks
07-07-2006, 10:12 PM
One look at Attakus' Death Star w/ Falcon set should tell you how expensive sub-licensing this would be, it's a slice of the Falcon and a few hallways in this scale and it's going to be thousands of dollars I believe. It's super accurate and beautiful, but the pricetag is a heartstopper. Even if the accuracy and scale thing were forgiven, it seems like we're still talking $500 for a reasonable Falcon, and that's the smallest one. It's a tough nut to crack, I'd love to see someone try though.

I suspect the Sail Barge is the only real choice for following the footsteps of the Black Pearl because characters can go on top of it, not just in it.

TheCivilCollector
07-07-2006, 10:40 PM
Definitely, JediTricks. I concur.

I think Attakus is doing exactly what high-end collectors say they've been wanting, and I wouldn't mind seeing them do more.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'll be buying it, (it's $1,600, right? Ouch!!!!!) but the pictures sure are nice to look at.

BTW, the fanmade sailbarge, Tantive IV,and SD are amazing.:yes:

Tycho
07-07-2006, 10:52 PM
Thanks for your compliments on the Tantive IV. Some day I hope to have some ideas for really detailing in interior and exterior to make it really look like the real deal.

It's incomplete as of the present, but since it's in storage, I'm not currently working on it. I was going to use bicycle reflectors when the time comes to "ignite the rear engines."

Much of the interior will be harder to do - plus the exterior requires a lot of detail as well.

TheCivilCollector
07-07-2006, 10:56 PM
Dude, forget the reflectors- Wire in some White LEDs and a switch! :D Would look SWEET!!!!

JediTricks
07-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Red LEDs with fresnel lenses over them would look great, but I think you gotta get those interiors done first since they're iconic enough to appear in the prequels.

TheCivilCollector
07-07-2006, 11:53 PM
Screw it, go with rainbow LEDs.

"Tantive IV, the most FABULOUS ship in the galaxy!!!"

Reefer Shark
07-25-2006, 06:21 PM
I found the Black Pearl today at Wal-Mart for $48.88. It's one big-@55 box! Here's quick pic I took to give an idea of the size. You can't see in the pic, but the box is very deep also, it's no flat box like the SW gunships and such.

I haven't opened it yet because I really don't have any place to put it. I'm gonna have to do some heavy re-arranging to put this thing up.

Where's our Sail Barge now Hasbro? :lipsrsealed:

Turbowars
07-25-2006, 06:25 PM
No disrespect Reefer, but why the hell did you buy it? Was it the price?

Reefer Shark
07-25-2006, 06:35 PM
Cause I'm loaded! (and not with money :smoker: ).

lol just kiddin! I actually really like the Zizzle POTC stuff. I have all the figures, and really wanted this boat to put 'em in.

I was hoping for a Black Pearl before they even listed this thing, and I hope they do a Flying Dutchman too (I doubt they will though). The price was nice, and I figure if I ever get sick of it I'll probably be able to get most of my money back by selling it.

plasticfetish
07-25-2006, 06:44 PM
Looks pretty awesome... 2 1/2 feet of play!!! :Pirate:

Tycho
07-25-2006, 06:54 PM
I agree, it's a great toy, but you all know where I stand on this issue and how it concerns the Sailbarge.

Turbowars
07-25-2006, 06:57 PM
Cause I'm loaded! (and not with money :smoker: ).

lol just kiddin! I actually really like the Zizzle POTC stuff. I have all the figures, and really wanted this boat to put 'em in.

I was hoping for a Black Pearl before they even listed this thing, and I hope they do a Flying Dutchman too (I doubt they will though). The price was nice, and I figure if I ever get sick of it I'll probably be able to get most of my money back by selling it.So that's why ou sold your GG stuff. :yes: I do think it awesome, but it's not something I could get into.

Jargo
07-25-2006, 07:34 PM
it's definitely time somoene else had a crack at affordable display scenery that's high on detail and accuracy. it neds to be beyond hasbro's feeble attemps obviously but not quite as intricate as the Attakus stuff. And really look into modular stuff too that allows you to tailor the size of your background to the size of your display area. add ons and such like.

I mean i love the Attakus stuff but the prices are well beyond my reach even if i stretch. something more affordable but with the same approach and scale.

Tycho
07-25-2006, 09:33 PM
Hasbro is capable of a lot more than they're doing (probably) With their disrespectul joke at the fans' expense regarding the Fans' Choices, (Dead Jawas etc) we saw their true colors: they have to make a 75% profit on whatever they do it seems - or it doesn't get done, period.

The Death Star Conference scene was a nice nod to collectors, but come on, all they needed to do was kitbash their own previous incarnations of Imperial Officers.

Again: easy money for them. Creating a masterpiece like the Black Pearl? I don't think they see it as their pervue.

figrin bran
07-26-2006, 12:45 AM
wow, that black pearl is most impressive! i only have a few figures from that line though as most of my non SW collecting budget (ha! collecting budget? what's that????) has gone towards Cars diecasts.

hmmm...if a sail barge were $48.88, i would definitely make some space for it even though i don't buy that many vehicles.

you know, with all the clones they've made and will continue to make, it sure would be nice to have something like the vintage mini rigs for them. an AT-TE would be preferable but let's face it, it just isn't something they want to make. but what about mini rigs? they can't possibly cost that much to make and they could sell for $9.99 or so and then our clone armies would have something to ride in at least.

Tycho
07-26-2006, 01:07 AM
There's the AT-RT, but what about the Swamp Speeder? It's not much bigger than a mini-rig and it was actually in the movie!

figrin bran
07-26-2006, 01:26 AM
yeah! i like that tycho! we need to pester hasbro for a swamp speeder!!!

JediTricks
07-26-2006, 02:06 PM
Reef, I posted that find in the ActionFigs.com news (http://www.actionfigs.com/index.php?categoryid=36&p2_articleid=431), awesome find, congrats!


There's the AT-RT, but what about the Swamp Speeder? It's not much bigger than a mini-rig and it was actually in the movie!Not much bigger? The mini-rigs are barely wider than the figures, the Swamp Speeder has 2 side-by-side chairs shaped like the TOS Enterprise captain's chair, plus a BUNCH of vehicle around them, it'd probably be bigger than Luke's Landspeeder. And it's barely noticeable in the movie.

abell748
07-26-2006, 03:11 PM
I was at Walmart this morning with my 5 and 6 year olds. I was looking to see if the Endor wave had been restocked. While looking I heard the "Cool"'s and "awesome"'s from my sons. They had found the Black Pearl. I was amazed, 2 and 1/2 feet of playset for $50! Hasbro needs to give this company the ok to do playsets. I also think that this would be a decent size for a sail barge playset. Hell, I would like a Bespin playset layed out like the Lego set. I find their argument that playsets won't sell. I have never seen a playset reach clearence. I do see tons of repackaged vehicles from last year gathering dust however. That is what doesn't sell well.

Tycho
07-26-2006, 03:14 PM
Not much bigger? The mini-rigs are barely wider than the figures, the Swamp Speeder has 2 side-by-side chairs shaped like the TOS Enterprise captain's chair, plus a BUNCH of vehicle around them, it'd probably be bigger than Luke's Landspeeder. And it's barely noticeable in the movie.

I know, but after we apply the "Hasbro treatment" to the Swamp Speeder, we'll get something close to the size of the Senate Speaker Car included with the Shocktrooper Box Set (hopefully a little larger).

Since it's barely noticeable in the movie, I don't really care. It could be made for the price point and size Figrin Bran wants - and to me that's better than:

1) never being made at all
2) some EU contraption that Hasbro invents "in the spirit of Star Wars" as Kenner did with the original mini-rigs back in the day (granted I bought them, but - see reason #1 again)

JediTricks
07-26-2006, 03:59 PM
The Swamp Speeder would have to be probably as wide as the TIE Bomber toy Hasbro put out a while back, but not quite as long. It'd fit as a $20, but I just don't see it being all that great a toy, it's among my least favorite Titanium Series 3"ers because there's almost nothing going on with it - it's like a floating patio with a big fan and a desk.

Tycho
07-26-2006, 04:44 PM
Hey, in this heat, a floating patio with a big fan and a desk sounds like a great idea! Can we add a cold drink?

JediTricks
07-27-2006, 02:30 PM
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/191.jpg

Well, they do look pretty casual, maybe that fan is just a giant cooling system for their beers in the center console. :p

Reefer Shark
07-27-2006, 04:18 PM
Reef, I posted that find in the ActionFigs.com news (http://www.actionfigs.com/index.php?categoryid=36&p2_articleid=431), awesome find, congrats!

Sweet, thanks JT! I need to visit ActionFigs.com more often.

Blue2th
07-27-2006, 05:40 PM
I think other companies should start making ships in proper scale for the mass market. Just think if MR somehow partnered with a licenced SW toy maker and used their mold of the Millenium Falcon (for the outside) Charge alot more money so they are not competing with toys from Hasbro. Make them adult collectibles, but meanwhile the Hasbro figs would fit in them. Either that or Hasbro needs to branch out to the high end market (with ships) like SS, MR, GG, Code 3, etc. because ther IS a market out there.

DarthQuack
08-05-2006, 03:25 PM
Well plenty of POTC playsets are being clearanced at my TG lol. If SW made them, they wouldn't get that far.

General_Grievous
08-10-2006, 05:01 PM
Well plenty of POTC playsets are being clearanced at my TG lol. If SW made them, they wouldn't get that far.
Because parents never want to buy their kids something that big. SW wouldn't get that far because it's mostly us collectors buying them. If mostly kids bought SW, we'd see Millennium Falcons and AT-ATs on clearance, because parents never like to buy their kids big vehicles/playsets, unless of course they're Star Wars fans. :)

Kidhuman
08-13-2006, 08:15 PM
Holy shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*t I found this today and stuck it on lay-a-way. It is freakin huge.

figrin bran
11-12-2006, 10:22 PM
Hasbro makes a 3 feet tall $300 Butterscotch pony toy and can't make a sail barge or a turbo tank or an AT-TE???

Kidhuman
11-12-2006, 10:37 PM
Hasbro makes a 3 feet tall $300 Butterscotch pony toy and can't make a sail barge or a turbo tank or an AT-TE???

I saw that at Target, you think for 300 bucks they would include the freakin carrot too. Cheap bas**rds

figrin bran
11-13-2006, 12:38 AM
what?? you have to buy the carrots separately?? and don't tell me there are variant carrots too :p

plasticfetish
11-13-2006, 04:18 AM
I think the idea is that this horrible robo-pony is supposed to be cheaper than buying your kid a real pony. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
11-13-2006, 03:44 PM
Haw! Good point, huge robot pony is no prob but a hollow vehicle is impossible???

LTBasker
11-13-2006, 11:02 PM
Honestly, I fail to see why the Sail Barge would be such a difficult endeavour for them. Looking at the Zizzle Black Pearl, the way they made it looks like it's a pretty complex mold, but the Sail Barge could be done much easier.

It would only require two deckfloors which would be one piece each, the walls could be made of interlocking sections so the package would be as long as the decks, but still pretty thin. It could easily get away with being around the Black Pearl's size and still looking good with figures all over it. Maybe a bit wider.

The section locking thing would be walls locking onto the bottom deck along with each other, the top deck would obviously lock onto ledges on the walls to stabilize the thing, probably with some support struts inside as well. The left walls would mostly all have hinged window coverings, the right side of it (since the general idea would be to reenact the Sarlacc scene thus this side wouldn't be seen as much) would have large doors so you could easily position the figures inside. Also, you could keep'em open and have some lights behind the barge so you could easily see the figures inside through the windows on the other side.

The features could be pretty basic: Collapsing sail posts, docking hole for the cannon, room attached to the top deck for skiff guards to be "running" out of.

If that's been suggested before, sorry, just something that I thought of tonight.

Overall, I think Hasbro is unreasonably dragging their feet when it comes to new stuff. They're too busy picking pegwarmers for 2008.