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stillakid
07-12-2006, 04:16 PM
The first time we ever see Darth Vader kill anyone, he has the guy by the throat lifted a foot off the deck. Every time after that, he kills (or puts the squeeze on) in "hands free" mode. If I'm not mistaken, the only Rebel he kills is by "hand," but he prefers killing off Imperials from 10 paces.

So what was up with the first instance on the Tantive IV? Why go old-school on Antilles and Wi-Fi on everybody else?

jjreason
07-12-2006, 04:37 PM
I think visually it's more intimidating - to the other Rebels watching. With the Force Choke, the people around the victim always seem a little confused about what's happening. The show of strength would likely convince some of the other living soldiers that holding back the info is not the best course of action, health-wise.

JediTricks
07-12-2006, 04:51 PM
When Vader kills Capt Antilles, he's trying to wring information out of him first and foremost. Vader kills him having just asked him a question even, "where is the ambassador?" - I think Vader just got impatient, he didn't intend to kill Antilles that way, he just wanted answers and when he didn't get them he cut the conversation short.:dead:

Slicker
07-12-2006, 05:50 PM
Besides it's more "personal" to do the business up close.

The only thing I can think of to relate it to would be killing someone with a gun and killing someone with a knife. Bullets are impersonal but actually holding onto a blade and being close is quite personal.

El Chuxter
07-12-2006, 05:51 PM
Why? More a plot reason than a character reason, but it wouldn't be very beneficial to the story to reveal Vader's Force powers (or even the existence of the Force) before Luke finds out about it from Ben.

JediTricks
07-12-2006, 08:26 PM
Why? More a plot reason than a character reason, but it wouldn't be very beneficial to the story to reveal Vader's Force powers (or even the existence of the Force) before Luke finds out about it from Ben.
That's a good point. It also sets up just how powerful Vader physically is. It's doing several jobs at once!

JimJamBonds
07-13-2006, 12:53 AM
The first time we ever see Darth Vader kill anyone, he has the guy by the throat lifted a foot off the deck. Every time after that, he kills (or puts the squeeze on) in "hands free" mode. If I'm not mistaken, the only Rebel he kills is by "hand," but he prefers killing off Imperials from 10 paces.

So what was up with the first instance on the Tantive IV? Why go old-school on Antilles and Wi-Fi on everybody else?

Actually the first person we see Vader kill is Padme at a handfull of steps.

stillakid
07-13-2006, 07:54 AM
Actually the first person we see Vader kill is Padme at a handfull of steps.

That's not really Vader. And that's not really Star Wars. ;) Just an imposter with enough money to buy the logo. It's like me wearing a football jersey with a team name on it.

JimJamBonds
07-13-2006, 08:25 AM
That's not really Vader. And that's not really Star Wars. ;) Just an imposter with enough money to buy the logo. It's like me wearing a football jersey with a team name on it.

Well the Sith big cheese dubed him Vader sooooooo Vader he is. :yes:

stillakid
07-13-2006, 09:58 AM
Well the Sith big cheese dubed him Vader sooooooo Vader he is. :yes:


Darth Big Cheese? :thumbsup:

LusiferSam
07-13-2006, 11:03 AM
Maybe Vader's underlings know better than to get within arms reach of him.

JediTricks
07-13-2006, 03:18 PM
Actually the first person we see Vader kill is Padme at a handfull of steps.
Funny, I could have sworn 1977 came before 2005 in our modern Gregorian calendar system.

Qui-Long Gone
07-13-2006, 05:38 PM
Funny, I could have sworn 1977 came before 2005 in our modern Gregorian calendar system.

Actually who knows what happend when...it was 'a long time ago.'

Rogue II
07-13-2006, 06:01 PM
This discussion puts a whole new spin on the Antilles scene for me. Now it's some sort of interrogation scene out of NYPD Blue, with Vader playing the bad cop, getting in the rebel's grill asking him the tough questions. When he doesn't get the answer he wants, he chokes him and tosses him across the room.:D

JimJamBonds
07-14-2006, 12:39 AM
Funny, I could have sworn 1977 came before 2005 in our modern Gregorian calendar system.

I know Episode III comes before Episode IV.

stillakid
07-14-2006, 12:58 AM
I know Episode III comes before Episode IV.

Only in Lucas-Logic-Land. :D

JediTricks
07-14-2006, 04:22 PM
I know Episode III comes before Episode IV.But you said "the first person we see Vader kill is Padme", not "the first person Vader kills is Padme" (we see Vader kill other Jedi in the temple before this, but that's of no matter to this discussion). The point is that you described what "we" first see, we are the audience and don't live in Lucas' Star Wars universe, whether or not you accept the prequels as stories that come before the OT, the audience never saw them first, the first person we the audience saw Vader kill was Captain Antilles.

2-1B
07-14-2006, 10:28 PM
Funny, I could have sworn 1977 came before 2005 in our modern Gregorian calendar system.

Very true, but I think JimJam is talking about the Georgian calendar system, not the Gregorian calendar.

lol

JediTricks
07-15-2006, 03:01 AM
Very true, but I think JimJam is talking about the Georgian calendar system, not the Gregorian calendar.

lol Then he shouldn't have said "we". :p

And you should be hauled up the yardarm for that bad pun. :Pirate:

Bel-Cam Jos
07-15-2006, 09:40 PM
Very true, but I think JimJam is talking about the Georgian calendar system, not the Gregorian calendar.

lolGregorian calendar system?
Greg Orian Calender's not a system, he's a man.

What was this thread about, again? :rolleyes:

stillakid
07-16-2006, 04:18 AM
What was this thread about, again? :rolleyes:

Why Vader chooses to kill Rebels by hand but won't touch an Imperial with a ten foot poll. Is it because they are Eurotrash? :sur:

Qui-Long Gone
07-16-2006, 05:00 PM
Why Vader chooses to kill Rebels by hand but won't touch an Imperial with a ten foot poll. Is it because they are Eurotrash? :sur:

Eurotrash: The Rebels or Empire?

stillakid
07-16-2006, 06:35 PM
Eurotrash: The Rebels or Empire?


I should rephrase and instead of Eurotrash say "anyone with an English accent." Cotton mouth Hayd-akin apparently developed a dislike for those people even when his own voice when all Barry White on him.

Either way, the Vader we all got to know and love from our childhoods shant touch an Imperial (Ozzel, Needa, that dude in ANH whose name I can't pull out of my brain right now...) but he doesn't mind manhandling Rebels (Antilles, Leia, anyone else?)

JediTricks
07-17-2006, 01:49 PM
Vader never physically harms Leia, he lets robots do the job. Antilles is the only Rebel he physically injures, and I think my argument still stands - he's not trying to kill him, he's trying to wring information out of him.

bigbarada
07-17-2006, 07:57 PM
It's the same reason that all the Imperial Officers are talking to Vader like he's a whipped puppy dog.

Lucas didn't have any of this planned out beforehand (ROTS proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt for me), he's just making it all up as he goes along.

Also we see Vader's powers evolve throughout the series. In Star Wars he starts with a physical choke then moves onto the "gesture choke" of Admiral Motti.

By Empire Strikes Back, his abilities are so well known that as soon as we see someone choking onscreen, the audience just assumes that Vader is responsible.

Which is why it is so foreboding to see Luke force-choke the Gamorreans at the beginning of ROTJ.

I think ROTJ missed a big opportunity in playing up the dark side of Luke. It would have added some great dramatic intensity.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-17-2006, 10:05 PM
Lucas didn't have any of this planned out beforehand (ROTS proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt for me), he's just making it all up as he goes along.

Which is why it is so foreboding to see Luke force-choke the Gamorreans at the beginning of ROTJ.

I think ROTJ missed a big opportunity in playing up the dark side of Luke. It would have added some great dramatic intensity.I am reminded of Indy's line from Raiders that's close to that.

But Luke's a good guy, so his Force choking isn't a bad thing, right? :pleased: I think there were enough Dark Side inferences in ROJ; heck, Luke resorts to an attempted murder of Jabba by blaster.

JediTricks
07-18-2006, 03:17 AM
Honestly, I never felt like that was Luke being Dark Side, they acted with a show of Force and he responded with a quick show of who's really boss, they weren't dead and he went on to his important business.

Qui-Long Gone
07-18-2006, 08:18 PM
I think ROTJ missed a big opportunity in playing up the dark side of Luke. It would have added some great dramatic intensity.

1. Luke got pretty dark side chopping dad's hand off...

2. Luke was never going to turn to the Emperor, he had too much loyalty to his friends....Anakin had a bigger chip on his shoulder and never felt like the Jedi trusted him....his only loyalty was to Padme, the memory of Jinn and Kenobi (when he wasn't *****ing about his master).

Jargo
07-21-2006, 06:11 PM
It seems clear to me that having been chasing the princess and as vader says "You're not on a diplomatic mission this time Princess" indicating his patience is being sorely tried. So therefore the choking of Antilles to me is vader losing his usual cool for a moment. In fact all the Imperials in those scenes seem quite weary of the chasing. And ****ed off that the data tapes aren't onboard.
Praji almost admonishes vader for being so violent it seems to me. his tone with vader is terse and irritated. And lets not forget that at that point the senate is still in existense. News of an attack on a diplomatic ship would have sent ripples of anger round the senators even under the emperors leadership. and especially with rebellion in the air.
It's another occasion where Anakin loses his sense of control like he did with the tuskens in AOTC, or with the seperatists in ROS. though yes that came later. :) in ANH I still think originally it was meant to be an action born out of frustration and real anger whereby with Motti Vader is merely playing with him. threatening him.

seanmcfripp
07-29-2006, 07:31 AM
Over the course of the original three movies, the choking of Antilles and the dialogue around that scene always seemed to me to be the most out of place part of Darth Vader's character. He's so matter of fact, with a very narrow bandwidth of emotion in almost all of his other dialogue, but he's just so peeved in that one scene, heaving and jolting as he's yelling at everyone to find the stolen plans. Very different from the "Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?" with which he hits Lando. Even the lines "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." are fairly reserved in comparison, and I'm pretty sure Vader was getting really, really annoyed with Lando at that point.

Bottom line, I just don't see Vader as being much of a yeller, or a guy who gets all that emotional about stuff, even when he's angry. Most every other time he gets miffed, he just lowers his voice, and gets right to the point with what he has to say, which I think makes him a far more effective villian. I guess choking Antilles and barking orders at his troops is necessay for a film maker to establish "Hey, look! This is the big bad guy, and he's in charge. See? He's yelling and bossing people around and choking guys."

Slicker
07-29-2006, 07:38 AM
Yeah, but in ANH he was trying to get info on where the plans for the Death Star were. He may be desparate to get 'em back therefore he's not quite sure how to go about doing it.

JediTricks
07-29-2006, 02:41 PM
Vader is extremely frustrated that the plans to the ultimate weapon are in the hands of the Rebels, this is a key moment for the Emperor, at this point the Senate is not yet disbanded and if the Death Star is compromised, all could be lost for their schemes. Vader is sick and tired of playing robo-boy detective, he wants the plans back, his frustration leads to him killing Antilles before actually getting any information out of him which was clearly not his intention.

Jargo
07-29-2006, 06:44 PM
merge your post and mine and we got it pretty much covered.

Luuuuuuke
07-30-2006, 11:09 PM
He kills Imperial officers or chokes them using the Force to remind them of the power of the Force. The first Imperial he chokes this way is that a-hole who expressed skepticism about the Force. So Vader gave him a demonstration. If he had reached over and used his hand, that would just show that Vader is physically powerful.

Lucas once described Vader as someone who was seen as kind of a freakish monster after he was burnt and turned into a half-robot. He elicited fear within the Imperial army, but not necessarily respect. Using the Force in front of Imperials A)authenticated the Force, albeit primitively, and B)re-asserted, on a more personal level, that he was a Jedi. Vader still respected the Force, whether dark or not. That's why when Moff Tarkin makes a comment about Obi Wan surely being dead by now, Vader says something to the effect that the power of the Force should not be underestimated. He's basicallly saying Obi Wan should be respected, as a practicioner of the Force.

Why did he kill Antilles by physically strangulating him? Probably because he wasn't trying to prove anything. He was just trying to get information from him. Which he didn't get because in his anger, he kills Antilles before he can get any information, like Jedi Tricks says.

COMMANDERCODY2795
08-19-2006, 11:34 AM
i ont get why they HAd to find the droids, if they did it with thee jedi they purge the droids too. i mean, if the death star was finished and the plans were destroyed i dont see a problem. kinda like "if the empire dosn't have the plans no one can."