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jjreason
07-14-2006, 12:13 AM
Dear Hasbro;

As a long time fan of the movies and your toys, I hereby implore you to go easy with the Expanded Universe themed figures and vehicles. I'm concerned that the recent ToyFare magazine poll results may have led you to believe that there is a vast market for these types of figures - but I'm still worried this isn't the case.

In particular, I'm concerned about you guys devoting a large chunk of the 2007 line to Expanded Universe characters. I hope you're already considering carefully monitoring their sales specifically - so that you can compare them to main characters from the movies and background characters from the movies. I for one would like to see how the numbers stack up between those 3 categories (and honestly, I'd like to see your movie characters broken up between OT and PT as well - just to see where the interest truly lies).

IF the majority of the market turns out to be clamoring for Expanded Universe figures and they sell through time after time - I would agree you should consider devoting more and more resources to filling figure slots with EU characters. IF, however, they sit on the pegs in 49 of 50 States and most international countries - they should probably be scale back in favor of the figures based on movie characters.

I feel that, as time goes on and the movies get further and further behind us, the viability of the line will come into doubt. If you try to do what Marvel Comics repeatedly does - produce TONS of product trying to appeal to everyone - you'll fail just like they do. What Marvel needs to do when the chips are down is produce FEWER books of BETTER QUALITY. Can you see where I'm going with this?

My opinion is that you'll have continued success with the line if you do a couple of simple things: produce fewer figures, and do careful reseach of your sales so that you can truly see which particular types of figures sell and which don't.

That is all.

El Chuxter
07-14-2006, 12:46 AM
As an EU fan of sorts, I feel I must implore you: focus on the big guns of EU. By that I mean characters with more universal appeal, characters EU fandom as a whole has asked for for years: a new Mara Jade, some Noghri, Talon Karrde, a handful of Yuuzhan Vong, etc. Please go easy on the video game guys, especially since it looks like you'll be re-using GIJoe parts on some of them. (Cough, Darth "Iron Grenadier" Revan, cough.)

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY, MAKE US A TEEK FIGURE!!!
Pack him in the Star Tours line and make him a Disney exclusive. Toss him in a clamshell and charge $12.99 for him at Target. Even a Celebration IV exclusive. Whatever. We don't care. Just get the little rascal in our hands.

2-1B
07-14-2006, 01:10 AM
What Chux said about Teek.

Phantom-like Menace
07-14-2006, 02:34 AM
What Marvel needs to do when the chips are down is produce FEWER books of BETTER QUALITY.

Would you be able to qualify this sentence? Someone might think you're making the blanket statement that Expanded Universe automatically means lower quality.

jjreason
07-14-2006, 03:27 AM
I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm suggesting Hasbro tighten up the line as opposed to producing a million figures of characters that I don't want. That's all.

If my opinion is different from the masses - so be it. I'm asking them to monitor sales so that I'm not stuck with pegwarming EU figures for the next 3 years, with no new movie figures after that because the line is dead. That's all.

JON9000
07-14-2006, 04:36 PM
I would suggest the Foul strategy... release an odd one here or there every other wave or so.

going berserk and putting out whole waves of them is pretty much suicide... look how long SOE sat around.

I think the best call is like you said- put out the ones people really want. don't just put out some half baked Han solo wannabe like Dash Rendork.

Blue2th
07-14-2006, 05:13 PM
What Chux said about a Noghri. With a knife to put behind Admiral Thrawn with that Ysalmir thingy, and kill him so "artfully" as he did so.

Phantom-like Menace
07-14-2006, 11:57 PM
I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm suggesting Hasbro tighten up the line as opposed to producing a million figures of characters that I don't want. That's all.

I was just looking for clarification.


If my opinion is different from the masses - so be it. I'm asking them to monitor sales so that I'm not stuck with pegwarming EU figures for the next 3 years, with no new movie figures after that because the line is dead. That's all.

I'm not looking to be stuck with any pegwarming figures. There doesn't seem to be any impartial reason to bring up a specific type of pegwarming figure.

As far as what Hasbro should do, the more accurate answer is what they should have done already. Hasbro should have taken note of the sales of the '98 EU figures, and I can understand they still hadn't forgotten the SotE figures, so I can't fault them too much. Hasbro also should have realized they needed to fill the line into the future, but I realize it hasn't been known for too long that the rights would be purchased until 2018. If Hasbro had done these two things instead of waiting until this late in the game, they could have already shown that adding EU figures to a mix of movie figures isn't going to end Star Wars collecting as we know it.

Now as long as we are giving Hasbro our two cents, I see no problem with finally adding a steady supply of EU figures, and I hope it isn't too little diversity too late. If popular opinion on this site is considered, few here think Star Wars toys can go until 2018. There seems to be an exaggerated opinion that EU figures will hasten that eventuality. I'm of the opinion that Hasbro's flirtation with EU was inevitable and that the only reason it has taken so long is because the opinion that nothing EU is worth buying has been taken into account, despite the fact that some think EU fans have recently won a run away victory. It doesn't make sense to drain the movie well before moving on to EU figures. Though I doubt sincerely that Lucasfilm will allow Star Wars to be all EU, an all EU line simply will not work, so tapping EU at that time will guarantee the line's death. Introducing EU now while there are still a handful of movie figures that don't have to be looked up on Wookieepedia so the consumer knows who or what the character is is the only viable option of the two, the only option of the two that makes any sense, the only option of the two that guarantees the maximum number of years for the line.

Now, if I can risk getting yelled at, I suggest to Hasbro a variation on what I suggest to political parties: you are not going to convert some of these people to EU fans. You can make an Expanded Universe action figure that turns water into wine and lead into gold and there are those who will simply not purchase it because it was in a Star Wars product other than those six movies. In fact, if you're counting on the upcoming TV series to keep these consumers, you can stop counting, because they're not going to be good enough, and they're going to be too EU. So stop trying to convert them, stop trying to make them happy. If you have to sell EU figures with movie figures, and I think you do, your best bet is to focus even more on the EU fans who you can more often and more easily make happy. And just so I am not misunderstood, this isn't a suggestion to make more EU figures than movie figures, nor is it even a suggestion to make a considerable fraction of your figures EU. It is simply an observation that this diversity is the key to your success, and only some of us will help make that diversity profitable.

And again addressing Hasbro, I do have one fear of the EU figures. It is possible to be a little too faithful to the source material. I applaud the version of Asajj Ventress Jedi vs. Sith Battlepack because it departed from the cartoonish look, but I cringe at the adherence to accuracy that brought us the giant boots on Foul Moudama. Thankfully, the boots of the latter are removable and I certainly removed them. Foul, incidently, could have been improved greatly by using the plastic spent on his boots on a lightsaber he could hold.

And I think some of the doom and gloom will be lifted from this scenario if it's pointed out that another difference between EU fans and movie fans is that EU fans aren't as interested in getting one of every figure ever mentioned in any scenario. No one here is dying to get that Jenica Sonsen figure. Hell, the most obscure figure I could think of as having much shot at being made has already been mentioned on this thread. Rukh was my initial vote before the finalists. If anyone is worried anyone too much more obscure than that will be made, you're worrying for nothing, because while the movies pretty much have five or six main characters in each of the trilogies, the novels and video games and comics are full of main characters.

Blue2th
07-15-2006, 01:15 AM
I would rather see one obscure EU figure, than an army of Vaders in four slightly different packaging variations clogging the pegs. Or regurgitated Heroes and Villans. I guarantee a resculpted Mara Jade would outsell Lustros Dofine or Hem Dazon, though I'm happy they made those figs. I think for every future wave in 2007 there should be one EU character. At least with the new EU 2-packs we get to see them in action with the comic book included, for those who aren't familiar with who they are in the EU. Look how many EU clones we got with ROTS. Some of them were never seen in movies or comics. Of course clones would sell even if they were pink (well we're getting purple EU clones aren't we)

2-1B
07-15-2006, 01:35 AM
What Blue2th said about what Chux said about a Noghri.

plasticfetish
07-15-2006, 03:56 AM
Please go easy on the video game guys, especially since it looks like you'll be re-using GIJoe parts on some of them. (Cough, Darth "Iron Grenadier" Revan, cough.) AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY, MAKE US A TEEK FIGURE!!!Oh, I get your point! The main character from a video game that sold millions of copies is a much riskier idea than a bucktoothed dwarf yeti from a TV special that no one (around here anyway) likes.

Hasbro... please develop a Teek/Noa Briqualon 2-pack. I think the interest is there. Considering the large number of retirement age Star Wars/Wilfred Brimley fans who are also really fond of bucktoothed dwarf yetis, I think this may be a smart idea. I'm sure you will do all of the necessary research to determine the viability of such a concept, but based on my familiarity with seniors that collect Star Wars figures (as well as a simple gut feeling), I'm sure that this one will be a winner. Please, given the rising cost of plastic, feel free to charge whatever you think is reasonable.

Phantom-like Menace
07-15-2006, 06:06 AM
I would rather see one obscure EU figure, than an army of Vaders in four slightly different packaging variations clogging the pegs.

I can forgive major characters being released too heavily. They are supposed to be the ones kids and new collectors are buying . . . if you're buying the story that these people exist.

I also don't consider different colored legions to be EU. It's just too generic and obvious that similar colors and patterns exist. I think of it like bathrooms. Clearly Luke and company need to do their dirty business, so it's hardly Expanded Universe to say they have bathrooms. I can put a bathroom in a diorama and I hope I'm not called out for EU.

Droid
07-15-2006, 08:21 AM
I guarantee a resculpted Mara Jade would outsell Hem Dazon...

I think you're probably wrong on that one.

El Chuxter
07-15-2006, 08:44 AM
Teek has something of a cult following. A possibly insane cult following, but a cult following.

DarkArtist
07-15-2006, 08:50 AM
Not for nothing but have you seen the majority of peg warmiong figures currently sitting on the shelves. Most of the figures I have seen are the Greatest Hits (characters from the movies), some of the VOTC2 Line (Mainly Han, Greedo, and the Tuskan Raider) as well as some of the earlier Saga 2 waves like the Carkoon Wave and Hoth Wave.
If EU is such a risk and the fear is that they will pegwarm forever, then answer me this "Why is it that two figures that got trashed on this very website, ie Scorch "looks like poo" and Foul "too big in the boots" are next to impossible to find ? With the movies being over fans are eventually going to have to move on to something else. If Hasbro continues to only make figures based on the movies just think instead of a clone army, eventually will we have an army of Luke, Han, Obi Wan, Anakin, Leia, Mace etc. True while there are minor characters who would make great figures, the Tonnika Sisters, other Cantina patrons etc, the line would falter if only those minor characters made up the assortment, Hasbro would have to incorporate some major characters into the waves in order to sell the line.
Another point I would like to make: If EU is such a thorn in many fan's sides then tell me this, "Why is it the Star Wars Novels and Video Games are amoung the number one bestselling items on the market today ?" Perhaps it is because more fans like EU than what is people are led to believe.
I for one am a huge fan of the Expanded Universe. It's a treat to jump into a universe created by one man and see how others people journey into it as well. Lucas is no fool, afterall he is the one who gives permission for this authors and game creators to develop new ideas that take place in his universe. And while he says that none of this EU ever happens in the story he has in his head, perhaps it is happening just not in the way he sees it.
Also, the Fan's Choice was voted by the fans. We sent in our ballots as to who we would like to see be made into a figure in a future wave. It seems to me that EU once again took front row. Whether you agree or not EU has a voice and it seems that at this point that voice is the loudest in the fan population.
I can't wait to see the new EU line Hasbro is producing for 2007. So in advance THANK YOU HASBRO !:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Blue2th
07-15-2006, 10:15 AM
I think you're probably wrong on that one.
I think I'm probably right. Hem Dazon is clogging the pegs here big time. Along with Bren Derlin, Lushstros Dofine, and Vader. Funny how Momaw Nadon dissapears quickly. I think any of the characters with lightsabers except Vader because there is just too many, get scooped up rather quickly. Even Mace and Anakin from H&V dissapear faster than the others. Put Mara Jade one per case and watch what happens. Though a boring character to some, even John Kerry Rieekan is gone now.

2-1B
07-15-2006, 10:37 AM
I would drown a nun for a Teek figure.

Blue2th
07-15-2006, 11:29 AM
I also don't consider different colored legions to be EU. It's just too generic and obvious that similar colors and patterns exist. I think of it like bathrooms. Clearly Luke and company need to do their dirty business, so it's hardly Expanded Universe to say they have bathrooms. I can put a bathroom in a diorama and I hope I'm not called out for EU.
You might get called out for EEW! I need a 501st Special Opps toilet with blue trim!lol

Slicker
07-15-2006, 11:40 AM
If EU is such a risk and the fear is that they will pegwarm forever, then answer me this "Why is it that two figures that got trashed on this very website, ie Scorch "looks like poo" and Foul "too big in the boots" are next to impossible to find ? I'm gonna say it's because they were packed like 1 per case.

BTW, I did see them quite a bit in my area. They were tough to find in some heavily treaded areas, yes, but alot of this stuff depends greatly on your location in the states. As of right now I'm not noticing Hem peg warming but that could def. change.

Phantom-like Menace
07-15-2006, 11:45 AM
I think any of the characters with lightsabers except Vader because there is just too many, get scooped up rather quickly.

That's been my observation as well. Who doesn't love lightsabers?


I'm gonna say it's because they were packed like 1 per case.

Other figures have been shortpacked and still not been absolutely impossible to find. Scorch was purchased because people wanted him not because he was rare.

Droid
07-15-2006, 11:48 AM
I think I'm probably right.

Ha! I think you and I have devolved into a really poor argument.

"I'm right"
"No, I'm right."

Let's call it a draw and just be friends!

Blue2th
07-15-2006, 12:05 PM
Ha! I think you and I have devolved into a really poor argument.

"I'm right"
"No, I'm right."

Let's call it a draw and just be friends!
Oh yeah, Professor Pooby-pants?! I'll meet ya after school by the bike racks, and we'll settle this! No not really, You're right ...;) friend.

plasticfetish
07-15-2006, 04:50 PM
Teek has something of a cult following. A possibly insane cult following, but a cult following.That's funny. It'd be even funnier if they put that on the figure's cardback... and just that bit of text.

TheDarthVader
07-15-2006, 11:41 PM
I agree with everything JJREASON posted. Hasbro, don't go overboard with making these EU figures.

Phantom-like Menace
07-16-2006, 12:22 AM
So, by show of ayes, how many people who don't want Hasbro to make too many EU figures also voted for Yarna.

jjreason
07-16-2006, 01:11 AM
Ay.

If you're thinking this anti-EU sentiment might somehow be linked to the Yarna fan club - you might be on to something..... but there were lots of people who voted for clones, Hermi Odle, SA Jedi Luke and other movie figures that would express concerns with Hasbro changing their focus toward EU.

There is a problem: we don't have a very wide range of collectors represented in this thread (I can already tell that Slicker and TDV have similar tastes to mine, just by their posts - as I'm sure you can tell who's favoring the creation of more EU figures by theirs). If voting was mandatory, and all 8000 or so members HAD to chime in, we'd get more interesting result. If only 4 people are posting here, and 2 voted for Yarna - all of a sudden "50% of the people who are anti-EU are cheesed off Yarna fans!!!!" - I don't think that's the case.

Phantom-like Menace
07-16-2006, 05:42 AM
Curiousity struck. I was just going to nod knowingly to myself. I swear.


Ay.

If you're thinking this anti-EU sentiment might somehow be linked to the Yarna fan club - you might be on to something..... but there were lots of people who voted for clones, Hermi Odle, SA Jedi Luke and other movie figures that would express concerns with Hasbro changing their focus toward EU.

There is a problem: we don't have a very wide range of collectors represented in this thread (I can already tell that Slicker and TDV have similar tastes to mine, just by their posts - as I'm sure you can tell who's favoring the creation of more EU figures by theirs). If voting was mandatory, and all 8000 or so members HAD to chime in, we'd get more interesting result. If only 4 people are posting here, and 2 voted for Yarna - all of a sudden "50% of the people who are anti-EU are cheesed off Yarna fans!!!!" - I don't think that's the case.

jjreason
07-16-2006, 11:28 AM
Keep in mind that SSG is the "unofficial" headquarters of the Yarna action figure request committee (if such a thing exists). Has been since the first one of these got started, way, way back when:

http://www.forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=1343

El Chuxter
07-16-2006, 02:47 PM
Caesar, I would drown you drowning a nun to get Teek. Nothing personal, y'know, but if that's what they said it would take for them to make Teek, you'd be toast. :p

JON9000
07-16-2006, 04:24 PM
The real question with EU is: "will kids buy it?" I suspect EU figures for the most part (Scorch excepted) would work best as Fan club exclusives, because kids tend to want what they see on the screen so they can recreate the adventures they've seen.

Another trick is making the EU toys look really cool. the Vader starfighter will sell well, but remember the concept cloud car?

Blue2th
07-16-2006, 05:13 PM
Maybe that's why they are putting a comic book with the 2 pack? So kids can read about the character. But then again kids don't read comics books like we did anymore do they? Yup, for collectors.

Phantom-like Menace
07-16-2006, 11:11 PM
The real question with EU is: "will kids buy it?" I suspect EU figures for the most part (Scorch excepted) would work best as Fan club exclusives, because kids tend to want what they see on the screen so they can recreate the adventures they've seen.

The biggest problem with this stance is that kids don't watch the movie with freeze-frame DVD. Kids notice Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Artoo, Threepio, Obi-Wan, maybe Lando, Yoda, Jabba, Ewoks, Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Stormtroopers, and the Emperor in the OT; Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, Artoo, Threepio, maybe Qui-Gon, maybe Jar-Jar, maybe Mace, Jango Fett, clones, and the Emperor in the PT. I don't think any of us really want Hasbro to limit themselves to those figures only. They're not going to look at Mxyzptlk on the pegs, go home, pop in the DVD, search screen by screen until they prove whether or not that guy was in the movie then make a decision to purchase him based on that. They're going to look at the figure, decide whether or not it's cool, which probably means deciding whether or not it looks like it has a big gun, lightsaber, or a cool outfit.

The only people who are going to look at Mxyzptlk and immediately know whether or not he's in the movie would be fairly hardcore fans who have already made the decision whether or not to buy Expanded Universe figures. As far as kids are concerned, Mxyzptlk could have been in ten background scenes in five of the movies and he's just as important as anyone who may or may not have been in some novel.

Don't forget kids also play video games, so they'll be familar with Scorch. They'll be familiar with one of the main characters of KotOR. They watch cartoons, so they'll be familiar with ARC Troopers and Foul Moudama. They might read comics, so Quinlan Vos could be perfectly familiar to them. Also, some of them do on very rare occasions crack a book, so Talon Karrde might not be someone they missed. Of course, many of these books end up in comic form like the Thrawn Trilogy, so that's more exposure. If you have children, movie purists, and EU fans. Two-thirds of those people enjoy the video games at the very least. Suddenly that puts movie purists in the minority.

Calling for figures kids recognize automatically paints fans of obscure figures into a corner. You have to know something is EU to make a value judgement on it based on that observation. Few children think like any of us, so if we paint children as behaving anything like we do, we're simply projecting our opinions onto them.

Kidhuman
07-17-2006, 12:23 AM
As a kid watching the OT, I noticed just about every background character that had a figure and then some that didnt. I have wanted Yarna, Sgt Dolan, and many many others for almost 30 years. Kids see these characters and would buy them. I was stoked to get every single bounty hunter from ESB. If they can do that, why not give us every person, creature and what not from the movies including Yarna. Hasbro is trying to appeal to another audiunce by doing theis EU crap. It failed once, dont do it again.

Banthaholic
07-17-2006, 01:29 AM
I also would like Teek, and if if it's not too much trouple through him in a two pakc with Wilfred Brimley (aka the celebrity who I seem to see the most look-a-likes of)

El Chuxter
07-17-2006, 08:42 AM
Mxyzptlk was in Star Wars? Maybe he was responsible for Revenge of the Sith.

Phantom-like Menace
07-17-2006, 08:53 AM
As a kid watching the OT, I noticed just about every background character that had a figure and then some that didnt. I have wanted Yarna, Sgt Dolan, and many many others for almost 30 years. Kids see these characters and would buy them.

Regardless of age, if you want one of every obscure figure in the movies, you are a collector. When Hasbro talks about kids versus collectors, they're describing purchasing habits, not strictly age.

However, you're not making the logical extension of this scenario. What other Star Wars media did you have access to? There was a comic that had a handful of non-movie characters who were not memorable enough for anyone to hardly mention anymore, though I seem to remember people talking about a humanoid rabbit named Jaxxon or something. There were a handful of read along with Mommie books, and there were two almost unwatchable cartoons, Droids and Ewoks, and then there were the two (three?) Ewok movies, which only aired once on television and I don't believe were ever offered on VHS, (but I could be wrong on both those counts). Today, those same kids witness Star Wars as a multimedia event. Video games are enthralling and give them characters they care about and want to own as figures (the eighties offered vague pixels). Go ahead and argue with me, but the recent Clone Wars cartoons were lightyears ahead of Droids and Ewoks. Comic writers have massive freedom in inventing their own characters who are then allowed to star in their own stories. You don't imagine when you were younger that you might have been remotely interested in these stories if they were available to you? I imagine you'll answer no, so I'll ask if you don't imagine kids today have more familiarity with video game characters than they have with background movie characters? My answer? To paraphrase: a kid watching these various media, notices just about every character that has a figure and then some that don't. Kids see these characters and would buy them.

I see again three types of Star Wars fans: kids, movie purists, and EU fans. Kids and EU fans will buy both movie and EU figures. Movie purists will only buy movie figures.


Hasbro is trying to appeal to another audiunce by doing theis EU crap. It failed once, dont do it again.

Hasbro is not trying to appeal to this "other audience." This "other audience" appealed to Hasbro.

Am I correct in assuming most people hold the gloom and doom view that Hasbro cannot support the license until 2018? So what's the logic then in suggesting Hasbro not investigate an alternative market? You're telling Hasbro, who just spent all of this money in the last couple of years to go ahead and cut their losses and ignore the twelve years they have left to bow out with a love letter to what you perceive to be the droves of fans who want every character the camera pans across in the movies but absoulutely none of the characters who have sold record numbers of video games and other media. No, they need to expand their market. Video games now have opening sales days comparable to opening box office weekends of movies. Hasbro shouldn't see this is an opportunity?

I can accept that some of you have night terrors that EU figures may end up on the shelves, but I can't accept that you sincerely believe you are saving Hasbro and EU fans from ourselves. None of you will allow that you just might not want anyone else to play in your sandbox? It always sounds like you want your figures without having to wait for us to get some of ours.

And finally, you see absolutely no responsibility to help Hasbro help you? You absolutely can't make yourself purchase an EU figure because it looks cool or would make a good base for a custom or because you just want to help the line continue? I've already stated I hate Darth Revan's winning the poll but I am willing to purchase him, wish the best to people who voted for him, and simply want to support the possibility of future EU figures. My roommate, as much as I wish he had purchased something cool for himself, was nice enough to purchase the Clone Wars gunship for me. I'm now dying to get several Firespeeder pilots to act as ground crew. One EU ship will find me purchasing multiple movie figures that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise. These things aren't oil and water. They are made to go together, meant to go together. Maybe your neighbor's kid would like some EU figures. Hell, you might even get him interested in buying some of these figures so you don't have to. Part of the solution people.


Mxyzptlk was in Star Wars?

He was sitting next to ET.

Droid
07-17-2006, 09:17 AM
And finally, you see absolutely no responsibility to help Hasbro help you? You absolutely can't make yourself purchase an EU figure because it looks cool or would make a good base for a custom or because you just want to help the line continue? I've already stated I hate Darth Revan's winning the poll but I am willing to purchase him, wish the best to people who voted for him, and simply want to support the possibility of future EU figures.

I will not buy figures I do not want and certainly feel no responsibility to HELP Hasbro. They could give a crap what I want. If nothing but Lukes would sell, they would prodcue nothing but Lukes. They make their marketing decisions based on what they think will make money. They have not made a single figure because I wanted it, but because they thought I would buy it. So I have to vote with my dollars when they make a figure I do not want to show them that I will not be buying future products I do not want. If I buy figures I do not want they will think I want such figures and produce more.

Also, I bought EVERY figure made in the Vintage line that I could get my hands on or afford when I was a kid. I bought Prune Face, which I think is the best example of a really obscure and odd choice for Kenner to have made during that time period. I think kids who have a strong interest in Star Wars will want a figure BECAUSE it is Star Wars and therefore interesting. I grant you that the casual fan would want a main character and that a child will not buy an obscure character until he or she has the main characters.

General_Grievous
07-18-2006, 01:45 AM
I'm not a big EU fan, but I'll accept the fact that there'll be figures based upon it. I'll even pick up Quinlan Vos (aka Jedi Master Bob Marley). However, it does make me angry that Darth effin Revan won the fan poll over someone more deserving like Yarna.

pegger
07-18-2006, 07:51 AM
What JJ said...

JON9000
07-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Calling for figures kids recognize automatically paints fans of obscure figures into a corner. You have to know something is EU to make a value judgement on it based on that observation. Few children think like any of us, so if we paint children as behaving anything like we do, we're simply projecting our opinions onto them.

I remember being a kid, and what my thought process was like, and I was much happier getting primary characters than tertiary ones. Once I had Han, Luke and Chewie, I was more open to getting a Jawa.

The rest of what you said makes sense, so I guess the issue is whether or not collectors are likely to buy EU, since I suppose that is the primary audience. Clones are a "can't miss" because you have collectors that have to have a battalion of each variation (smart marketing), and "Clone Wars" was very popular with children, but get far from that and I think problems set in. How many fans read the books and buy figures? With the amount of product that is being produced these days, I've had to prioritize. I usually stick only to characters from the OT, only going outside of that if the toy is really cool. I would pick up a prequel figure before I'd get an EU one. And then I'd only get an EU figure I know. It's just a small pool depending on the media format.

Darth X from X-box game X is only going to appeal to:
a Star Wars fan
who buys figures
who plays video games
who has an X-box (exclusive)
who has game X that features Darth X

I think selling figures from books is even more difficult. My guess is that EU is unpredictible, and corporations like sure bets. You have scorch, but you also have SOTE. Again, the best thing Hasbro can do from a marketing standpoint is short pack figures that are worrisome. $10 for a figure as dodgy as VOTC 3po yet still being HTF was no accident. While frustrating for collecotrs, I find clogged pegs of crap even worse. It's a tightrope.

Phantom-like Menace
07-18-2006, 02:25 PM
I will not buy figures I do not want and certainly feel no responsibility to HELP Hasbro. They could give a crap what I want.

The operative part of my sentence was to help Hasbro help you. I'm not appealing to any caring nature. I'm appealing to straight-up selfishness. You can hope Hasbro's options dry up and get nothing else, or you can buy an EU figure and get your other figures for the next twelve years. You can not care at all whether or not it's good for Hasbro and still have it in your best interest to help them.


I think selling figures from books is even more difficult. My guess is that EU is unpredictible, and corporations like sure bets.

That's been one of my points. Most people seem to think Hasbro is about to start selling EU figures only with no attention to movie figures. EU will not take over the line anymore than the third alien from the left in scene ten will.


You have scorch, but you also have SOTE.

SotE only showed you shouldn't pin your hopes on one story. People were at best sold on three characters, Xizor, Dash, and Guri (why no Guri Hasbro?) and anyone madly sold on Outrider (the best part of the book in my opinion) was emotionally scarred by that . . . crappy starfighter they turned her into. For the record, I purchased everything in that line but Slave I since I had the PotF version and one of the two packs with Xizor since I already had both figures. The '98 line is much more like anything Hasbro would actually try, though I imagine any new effort will be released within movie waves. It had a broad sampling of figures from multiple stories and media and it sold well. I'd make the case that the Clone War toys sold as well as movie figures. Obi-Wan and a couple other figures pegwarmed, but tell me that is any different than the results of movie toys.

JON9000
07-19-2006, 11:25 AM
SotE only showed you shouldn't pin your hopes on one story.

As I recall, Leia Boushh, Chewie as Snoova, Coruscant Luke (downright HTF) & Fett/IG-88 sold much better than Dash and Xizor (particularly Xixor, an all time pegwarming champion). So, SOTE showed that when it comes to moving units, movie characters are 9 times out of 10 going to do better than EU.

jjreason
07-19-2006, 09:37 PM
Shadows of the Empire (though a separate topic) was an interesting experiment - and it did well at gauging the interest in Star Wars at the time. I for one was on board with the book, comics, figures AND video game!

The problem with Xizor in my eyes was that the 2 available figures were nearly identical. If they had changed up the outfits instead of just the pose and accessories, I think BOTH the basic figure and the 2 pack with Vader would have sold better.

Back to the main topic - I'm sensing that in the eyes of some of those contributing here there is perceived to be a nasty rift between EU accepting and non-EU accepting parties..... I don't think that's the case. It's all Star Wars. We all prefer different soda, different types of girls (or boys), different types of music..... why should the particular figures we favour out of the thousands produced be exempt from preference? It doesn't need to put us at odds.

The interesting thing happening here is that we get to see exactly what types of figures we prefer - both as individuals, and as a community (if more people were actually chiming in, and we could mark some trends, that is).

Phantom-like Menace
07-20-2006, 04:33 AM
As I recall, Leia Boushh, Chewie as Snoova, Coruscant Luke (downright HTF) & Fett/IG-88 sold much better than Dash and Xizor (particularly Xixor, an all time pegwarming champion). So, SOTE showed that when it comes to moving units, movie characters are 9 times out of 10 going to do better than EU.

I don't recall any figure selling better either way, but I do recall seeing an awful lot of figures on the shelves, and I don't recall all of them or a large percentage of them being Dash and Xizor.

That said, you might pay attention to the names of the parties involved. Leia, Luke, Chewie, and Boba Fett? I really hope it's not your contention that EU characters have to outsell core movie characters in order to be considered. I also really hope no one thinks any fan of the EU thinks our figures will outsell core movie characters, because unless one crazed EU zealot who sniffed a bad mouse droid got a little carried away, that statement was never made.

SotE figures were not a success. Shadows of the Empires figures sold horribly. No one is attempting to say otherwise. The biggest difference between SotE and successful EU ventures is that some group of suits threw them to gether with an "if you build it they will come mentality." The '98 figures, the Clone Wars figures, and Scorch were all built after we had come, so they were removed from pegs in shorter order.

SotE was more a curiousity than a significant chapter of Star Wars. It's largely brought up anymore only because the video game was kind of cool and it's everyone's favorite poster child for why no EU figures should ever be made in any capacity ever again in life. With the exception of a five-part Guri comic, no characters from that series have gotten more than a cameo in any other works, and the only aspect of that book to be continually explored was Black Sun, because a giant space mafia is actually kind of cool. A multimedia project that was supposed to be some major event had no staying power. Looking back with hindsight--hindsight of how well SotE would stay in fandom's consciousness, not how poorly the figures did--SotE was a terrible choice to pin an entire toyline on. The problem, as I mentioned before, is that figures were made before anyone realized this. I seriously doubt Hasbro would have ever made a toyline based on SotE if they had waited to see how well the story was received. And if SotE figures had not been made, I'm not sure what argument EU bashers would be making.


Shadows of the Empire (though a separate topic) was an interesting experiment - and it did well at gauging the interest in Star Wars at the time. I for one was on board with the book, comics, figures AND video game!

I can't agree that SotE is a separate topic. SotE is the end all and be all of evidence the EU will not do well. SotE pops out of every EU basher's mouth on reflex when EU figures are mentioned. If anyone presented a different case, SotE wouldn't be the whole of the discussion.


Back to the main topic - I'm sensing that in the eyes of some of those contributing here there is perceived to be a nasty rift between EU accepting and non-EU accepting parties..... I don't think that's the case. It's all Star Wars. We all prefer different soda, different types of girls (or boys), different types of music..... why should the particular figures we favour out of the thousands produced be exempt from preference? It doesn't need to put us at odds.

I agree with the second part of this paragraph, but I disagree with the first part. There is a massive rift. While EU fans have no intention of preventing any movie figure from being made in any way, shape, or form, because we purchase movie figures, like movie figures and wish movie-only figure fans well, the EU haters are interested in expressly preventing our figures from being made. It's the opinion of movie-only fans that characters that ninety-eight percent of toy buyers and fifty percent of Star Wars fans have to look up will sustain the line and that major EU characters will kill the line deader than Boba Fett (see, not all EU floats my boat). It's the contention of EU fans that major EU characters have as much right to be on shelves as background movie characters and that in most cases (I.e. popular video games) recognition of the character goes up substantially with the toy buying public.

It's mildly interesting that the biggest haters of the EU are the people calling for obscure movie figures. There is even less difference between someone campaigning to get ICMG made and people wanting Corran Horn. The biggest difference is that ICMG fans will point to the fact that he was in a movie! Magical words those. Those are not, however, the magical words for making him any more well-known than Corran Horn. While the claim is made that EU is going to sink Hasbro, the real problem seems to be that they are afraid EU will replace background movie figures. They're afraid that by letting us get any figures, they'll get no figures. And we actually will have no more figures if we don't work together.

jjreason
07-20-2006, 02:26 PM
I don't think the rift is that big. What we've got here is a big bunch of completists (me being a bit of one myself) who are a little bit upset about the prospects of still "having" to buy one of every figure - even though some of us are going to be seeing a few more EU figures than we'd choose to. Let's look at the list of what's up & coming EU-wise:

Mace Windu's Squadron Battlepack (which almost everyone will buy because of the Airborne Trooper being included)
Tons of EU Jedi Starfighters (of which I won't be partaking, other than the black and grey/silver Vader version)
Kir Kanos 2 pack (I'm in)
Quinlan Vos 2 pack (which I'm sure I'll buy)
Other EU 2 pack(s) (which I'll likely buy)
Darth Revan Fan's Choice Figure (which I'll buy)
Commemorative Tin 4 packs - Blue EpII Clone, White ATRT Driver 6 packs total, of which I'm sure I'll buy the 2 mentioned as well as the EPI set that comes with the red Astromech.

That's already well over $200 worth of EU merchandise we're expecting over he next year or so, and I didn't even really think to hard about it - there's likely more. Is that a suitable amount of EU stuff to release in one year? Too much? Too little?

For me, it's more than I want. I don't mind a few things here and there (Scorch being a good example), but I'd prefer a smaller portion of the stuff from the next year being EU.

The only thing I can do is continue to work on breaking my completist ways, and vote for future figures by buying only the product that appeals to me.

Phantom-like Menace
07-21-2006, 12:02 AM
Sure, but I'd argue the repaints are barely EU. Sure, some of the Jedi Starfighter repaints are from the Clone Wars cartoons, but the rest of them are just Hasbro repainting molds with no eye to any source material. I'll allow the fighters from Clone Wars as being EU (though in lieu of actual EU fighters, Hasbro would have simply painted them another color) but other than those, the only items that actually come from the EU are the comic two-packs. Yes, I'm calling the Airborne Clone a repaint, though why this version came before the Utapau version makes no sense. Edit: Oh, and I'm not including Revan because Hasbro didn't seek to make him; that was our idea.

We've complained about repaints in the past, and it's a separate issue from the Expanded Universe.

I haven't heard about the tins. What is the red astromech? Is it the droid from the Queen's Starship?

jjreason
07-21-2006, 12:39 AM
Looks to me like the one Obi Wan had co-piloting for him when he went to Geonosis. I can't keep the call numbers straight, but I think this one is R2-R5? You can see some pics from them at a number of sites out there, but gosh, I seem to have forgotten which one.....

There are also pics around which are showing what appears to be an Imperial Officer 5 pack.... complete with yet another planned EU figure: a white uniform sporting Grand Admiral (which I'll also be happy to buy).

I still think the repaints are EU. Sure, they're based on movie designs, but they're not in the movies - extrapolated from them, without a doubt. For me, my list of EU stuff would stay the same.

Phantom-like Menace
07-21-2006, 12:53 AM
You can see some pics from them at a number of sites out there, but gosh, I seem to have forgotten which one.....

Thanks for the directions. I forget about sites because some--maybe one in particular--don't load on my home computer (no idea why), so I forget they exist. I just checked it out here at work, though. The red astromech very much appears to be the same droid (same mold? I don't know) as the Queen's Starship pack-in. The blue Episode II clone is just a lieutenant, so it's not EU:D.

Edit: A lot of people are assuming the Imperial officer pack actually includes Wulf since so many of the others appear to be from the same Death Star scene.