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Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-04-2008, 07:57 PM
I noticed that shot in the trailer when I watched it online today. I also noticed a very spoileriffic shot featuring Joker and Rachel.


Saw that as well; I don't think it's as obvious as we think it is. I assume it has as happy ending as that's incredibly spoilerish for a trailer. :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
05-04-2008, 08:10 PM
Well, this trailer was in front of Iron Man last night, it was the 4th one after Speed Racer, Get Smart, and Indiana Jones (good progression, nobody cared about the first 2 much, but Bats wasn't quite as popular as Indy).

Philistines.

I'm far more excited about Get Smart than Indiana Jones. Even considering Evan Almighty, Steve Carrell has disappointed me far, far less recently than George "I Need Fifty Dollars to Make You Holler" Lucas. And I needn't say again that I'm so looking forward to Speed Racer I can't wait until next weekend and am already concocting plans to avoid having to deal with Mother's Day instead.

The Dark Knight is in another league altogether. This is holy ground. This is how I was in 1999, waiting for that Star Wars movie that would surely be the greatest film ever made, before the dark times, before The Phantom Menace actually was released.

I have far more faith in Nolan, Bale, Ledger, and company than in George Lucas. That fat man can rot in his flannel for all I care. I care very little about putting more money in his pocket that doesn't celebrate the bygone days when he had talent, or pretended quite convincingly that he did.

It may not be reflected in box office receipts, since people are morons by and large, but Batman will be infinitely better than Indiana Jones And The Catheter Of The Dadburnt Kids On My Lawn.

2-1B
05-04-2008, 08:11 PM
Chux, you do sound like a fanboy hater in the above post...sour grapes.


The terrific new trailer is up!!

http://whysoserious.com/happytrails/trailer.htm

and I nabbed a screencap of what looks like Harvey as Two Face.

I just love this trailer. The Joker fixing his hair with a knife before going to talk to Rachel just creeps me out. I'm so damned excited about this flick! :thumbsup:

He doesn't use the knife to fix his hair, but you're right that is a great trailer. :thumbsup:

I like the way Joker says "gentle-men" lol

Good stuff. :21B:

JediTricks
05-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Philistines.

I'm far more excited about Get Smart than Indiana Jones. Even considering Evan Almighty, Steve Carrell has disappointed me far, far less recently than George "I Need Fifty Dollars to Make You Holler" Lucas. Ugh, taking Steve "I'm way overrated and 1-note" Carell entirely out of the equation, this movie looks like 100% crap. There's so little that's true to the hilarious Get Smart TV show (or even the dubious Get Smart movie, The Nude Bomb), they even admit they wanted to use the title and general concept as a way to make a new spy franchise, light but action-themed, which completely misses what made Get Smart great. And every review I've seen so far tears this film to shreds for being flat and sloppily written and unfunny on its own, as well as untrue to the source material.


And I needn't say again that I'm so looking forward to Speed Racer I can't wait until next weekend and am already concocting plans to avoid having to deal with Mother's Day instead.I honestly cannot see why, this thing looks like all hype and video game thinking, nothing honest or authentic to the material, just pandering to the "faster, shinier, more cartoony" crowd.


The Dark Knight is in another league altogether. This is holy ground. This is how I was in 1999, waiting for that Star Wars movie that would surely be the greatest film ever made, before the dark times, before The Phantom Menace actually was released.

I have far more faith in Nolan, Bale, Ledger, and company than in George Lucas. That fat man can rot in his flannel for all I care. I care very little about putting more money in his pocket that doesn't celebrate the bygone days when he had talent, or pretended quite convincingly that he did.

It may not be reflected in box office receipts, since people are morons by and large, but Batman will be infinitely better than Indiana Jones And The Catheter Of The Dadburnt Kids On My Lawn.Faith, that's what you hang this on. You can turn a blind eye to issues in what we know of The Dark Knight, but not Indiana Jones because you've been burned before by one and not the other. That's not objective though, that's just your faith carrying you one way because you were burned the other. But people love Indy, it's far more accessible than Batman, and that's what counts for a lot to the general audience.



He doesn't use the knife to fix his hair, but you're right that is a great trailer. :thumbsup:He's absolutely holding a knife to his hair when he awkwardly fixes it while approaching Rachel, but whether he's also holding a comb when he does so is unclear. I think it's fair to say he fixes his hair with a knife though.

2-1B
05-04-2008, 09:08 PM
He's holding a knife NEAR his hair but it doesn't touch his hair. So, he doesn't use the knife to FIX his hair. :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
05-04-2008, 09:45 PM
Faith, that's what you hang this on. You can turn a blind eye to issues in what we know of The Dark Knight, but not Indiana Jones because you've been burned before by one and not the other. That's not objective though, that's just your faith carrying you one way because you were burned the other. But people love Indy, it's far more accessible than Batman, and that's what counts for a lot to the general audience.

:confused:

If I were claiming to be objective, I wouldn't have started a post with a paragraph consisting of just the word "Philistines." The entire post was quite subjective, as it's my opinion. I can't provide any factual evidence that one is objectively better than another. Even after seeing them both, it would be impossible for me to do so, since it would still be my opinion.

Yes, I will freely admit that I have far, far, far more faith in a director who hasn't to my knowledge done a bad movie, and is following up what was close to a perfect movie and a perfect adaptation, vs a director who's in a 10-year slump* and is basically at the mercy of a producer who has proven that he has no qualms about sacrificing things like story progression, cinematography, and character development** in favor of whatever fart joke he's set on inserting into the movie.

I'd love for Indy IV to not suck. However, I'm pretty certain that, at best, it will merely "not suck." The trailer is full of clunky CG, it seems to rely too heavily on "I'm too old for this" gags, and the movie itself seems to be based upon a totally different sort of mythology than the other three Indiana Jones films. On the other hand, I've yet to see any of the "issues" in any of the advance information about The Dark Knight. Wait, I don't care enough about the shape of Batman's motorcycle to complain about it as so many have done at length, since the creative team involved proved they could essentially give him a combat tank for a Batmobile and have it work. And I'm totally baffled about complaints that Batman is boring or that the Joker isn't Joker enough. My personal take, I can't figure out where that's coming from.

Bottom line is, I could be wrong on both counts. I don't know anything conclusive about the quality of either movie right now. However, my educated guess tells me I'll like TDK and may or may not like Indy IV. When movie tickets are more expensive than DVDs, and the nearest theater of sufficient quality to view a blockbuster-type movie is some 30 miles away, that's plenty for me to go on at this point.

Indiana Jones being more accessible than Batman is also, by the way, a subjective statement. We could argue that point until we're both blue in the face, but there is no right or wrong answer. The fact is that both of them are pop culture icons. Nothing will change that.

I wasn't aware of the negative reception for Get Smart. It was probably going to be an HBO movie anyway, since that's the sort of film I don't normally watch in a theater. I've not been paying a whole lot of attention and only saw one trailer with Carrell stuck in a phone booth. I do think he's funny, however, and hardly overrated or a one-trick pony. (It's not fair to put him in the same category as Jim Carey.)

*--In fairness, a "slump" for Steven Spielberg means he's still putting out great movies. They're just not the landmark films like ET or Schindler's List.

**--Before anyone says I'm a hypocrite for expecting the opposite of Speed Racer, I'll point out again that it's based on a cartoon entirely lacking in all three, and not a prequel to movies like The Empire Strikes Back, which was strong on all three counts.

2-1B
05-04-2008, 10:11 PM
If anyone can tell me how Joker's thumb against his hair constitutes fixing his hair with a knife, then I'll eat that knife. lol

General_Grievous
05-05-2008, 10:34 AM
I like the way Joker says "gentle-men" lol
He said "Gentle Ben", as in Grizzly Adams' bear. There's a friggin' bear in "The Dark Knight". That's the real reason Chux is so excited about the movie. ;)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-05-2008, 12:11 PM
He said "Gentle Ben", as in Grizzly Adams' bear. There's a friggin' bear in "The Dark Knight". That's the real reason Chux is so excited about the movie. ;)

lol I can only hope that it has a slight resemblence to the LIFE AND TIMES OF GRIZZLY ADAMS as seen on Family Guy. http://thatvideosite.com/video/1606 :thumbsup:

and i stand corrected: he fixes his hair while holding the knife; it still creeps me out though. Thanks for the screencap, Cae! :thumbsup:

2-1B
05-05-2008, 05:01 PM
JMG, it WOULD be cool if he actually used it that way...they should have shot it that way. I do like the clip though, very cool.

"Here's my card" = classic lol

General_Grievous
05-07-2008, 10:56 AM
If you want to see a leaked pic of Two-Face, go here: http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=421

It looks like a pre-production rendering, but it's really grotesque.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-07-2008, 11:50 AM
If you want to see a leaked pic of Two-Face, go here: http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=421

It looks like a pre-production rendering, but it's really grotesque.

It's been psuedo confirmed as EARLY concept art. I really liket it though; although, I do hope if they show muscle/tendon, it looks like CGI-esque than what's presented here. :thumbsup:

JediTricks
05-09-2008, 04:52 AM
:confused:

If I were claiming to be objective, I wouldn't have started a post with a paragraph consisting of just the word "Philistines." The entire post was quite subjective, as it's my opinion. I can't provide any factual evidence that one is objectively better than another. Even after seeing them both, it would be impossible for me to do so, since it would still be my opinion.It wasn't a question of which is better, but which is more deserving of public favor based on seeing the trailer.


Yes, I will freely admit that I have far, far, far more faith in a director who hasn't to my knowledge done a bad movie, and is following up what was close to a perfect movie and a perfect adaptation, vs a director who's in a 10-year slump* and is basically at the mercy of a producer who has proven that he has no qualms about sacrificing things like story progression, cinematography, and character development** in favor of whatever fart joke he's set on inserting into the movie.Uh, Nolan's had a whopping 4 movies under his belt, not a ton to hang your faith on. As for Senior Spielbergo, I don't buy this "slump" claim even with your proviso, in the last 10 years there was Minority Report which I think is very solid, and Catch Me If You Can which was pretty decent as well. I also think ET is overrated.


**--Before anyone says I'm a hypocrite for expecting the opposite of Speed Racer, I'll point out again that it's based on a cartoon entirely lacking in all three, and not a prequel to movies like The Empire Strikes Back, which was strong on all three counts.No, I'm sorry, that's a load of rich creamery butter. Speed Racer the cartoon had character development and story progression, you're just selling it short because it was a '60s anime cartoon with all the issues that came with.




I'd love for Indy IV to not suck. However, I'm pretty certain that, at best, it will merely "not suck." The trailer is full of clunky CG, it seems to rely too heavily on "I'm too old for this" gags, and the movie itself seems to be based upon a totally different sort of mythology than the other three Indiana Jones films. On the other hand, I've yet to see any of the "issues" in any of the advance information about The Dark Knight. Wait, I don't care enough about the shape of Batman's motorcycle to complain about it as so many have done at length, since the creative team involved proved they could essentially give him a combat tank for a Batmobile and have it work. And I'm totally baffled about complaints that Batman is boring or that the Joker isn't Joker enough. My personal take, I can't figure out where that's coming from.Generous! You don't give the motorcycle trouble for being Warner Bros' gimmicky hand at work again even though it and the new costume reek of studio interference trying to make the character more toyetic. And how you don't see the Joker being not Joker-enough... really? Even if you don't agree, how can you not see where others do see it?



Indiana Jones being more accessible than Batman is also, by the way, a subjective statement. We could argue that point until we're both blue in the face, but there is no right or wrong answer. The fact is that both of them are pop culture icons. Nothing will change that.Right now it's late and I don't feel like getting into it, but I am confident I could drum up a solid argument showing objectively showing my point given a clearer head and more free time.


I wasn't aware of the negative reception for Get Smart. It was probably going to be an HBO movie anyway, since that's the sort of film I don't normally watch in a theater. I've not been paying a whole lot of attention and only saw one trailer with Carrell stuck in a phone booth. I do think he's funny, however, and hardly overrated or a one-trick pony. (It's not fair to put him in the same category as Jim Carey.)There hasn't been much buzz at all about Get Smart in the general atmosphere, but if you look into IMDB or AICN you'll find quite a lot stomping it with good reasonings.

Steve Carell is so much a one-trick pony though, he has the same style of gag-delivery every time, even when he was on The Daily Show it was a lot of that humor (but since there it was in shorter bites and he had better material to work with, it wasn't painful).


If anyone can tell me how Joker's thumb against his hair constitutes fixing his hair with a knife, then I'll eat that knife. lolThat image shows his thumb on his face and the knife handle pushing against his hair.

El Chuxter
05-09-2008, 03:00 PM
A'ight, this is going to be my last word on this for now:

1) I don't deny that all of Spielberg's movies in the past decade have been quite good. However, none of them are Schindler's List, Close Encounters, Jaws, or Raiders (since you don't like ET, I won't count it). And, just a year ago, he seemed to think everything about Transformers was a good idea, and he's under the heavy influence of Lucas on Indy IV. I happen to think the first three Indy movies are three of the best films of all time, and I'm concerned that we'll get a ROTS-class fourth chapter.

My point: Nolan is at the top of his game, and Spielberg no longer is. I'm not saying Nolan is better than Spielberg at his best, or that Spielberg will never do groundbreaking, iconic movies again. His gradual slide into "mere" 3-star movies is enough to be worrisome. If Indy IV is anything less than the best movie this year (or in very close contention for that spot), it will not live up to its predecessors.

2) I didn't say anything about the Bat-Pod not looking like an attempt to wedge in a new toy. However, this is exactly the same gripe everyone had about the Tumbler. I seem to recall that working out quite well. I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt.

I'll admit that the Joker isn't exactly like every previous version, but, then again, I can't think of two actors or writers who've interpreted him the same. He seems pretty faithful to the underlying premise, if not the details. He's certainly more faithful than R'as Al Ghul from the first Batman Begins, and that turned out pretty well. And he's definitely looking more "accurate" than Romero's or Nicholson's versions.

3) Either you watched a totally different Speed Racer cartoon than I did, or you have a different definition of character development. There's maybe five minutes in the entire series, and it's all within the first two-parter. When every story ends with the status quo exactly as it began, we're not talking about Citizen Kane.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-09-2008, 03:44 PM
Somebody on the Spawn boards posted a new pic of the Joker and I gotta say, it's probably the best shot of the Joker yet.

Awesome shot! :thumbsup:

JediTricks
05-09-2008, 05:49 PM
1) I don't deny that all of Spielberg's movies in the past decade have been quite good. However, none of them are Schindler's List, Close Encounters, Jaws, or Raiders (since you don't like ET, I won't count it). And, just a year ago, he seemed to think everything about Transformers was a good idea, and he's under the heavy influence of Lucas on Indy IV. I happen to think the first three Indy movies are three of the best films of all time, and I'm concerned that we'll get a ROTS-class fourth chapter.Spielberg has a bad track record as exec-producer, so I'm giving him leeway on the Transformers mess. I honestly think Jaws is a little overrated as well, it's very good for what it is but people treat it like something bigger. I wouldn't discount your list with ET or Jaws in it, my personal tastes are just enough to say I think folks put some of Spielberg's films on pedestals while others not for somewhat random reasons - if Minority Report had come out a few years earlier, I suspect it might be better thought of.

I hope you're wrong about Lucas' influence being TOO overwhelming, but yeah it does seem that way. Still, it's faith that leads us to "Nolan is somehow in a better place even though he has Warner Bros breathing down his neck on this".


My point: Nolan is at the top of his game, and Spielberg no longer is. I'm not saying Nolan is better than Spielberg at his best, or that Spielberg will never do groundbreaking, iconic movies again. His gradual slide into "mere" 3-star movies is enough to be worrisome. If Indy IV is anything less than the best movie this year (or in very close contention for that spot), it will not live up to its predecessors.Nolan could be at the top of his game, but with such a small past to choose from, he could slip very fast very easily, he's never had as much studio interest as he does with this and a lot of directors can't hang with that.

TOD is not a 4-star film tho'.


2) I didn't say anything about the Bat-Pod not looking like an attempt to wedge in a new toy. However, this is exactly the same gripe everyone had about the Tumbler. I seem to recall that working out quite well. I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt.Baloney! The Tumbler is Batman's car, he needs a Batmobile of some kind, that vehicle is almost anti-toyetic when you look at the design which initially put many fans off (I liked it from almost day 1), the Batmobile is a big part of who that character is. Batman has no need for a motorcycle though, that's just wedge material, it's totally different.


I'll admit that the Joker isn't exactly like every previous version, but, then again, I can't think of two actors or writers who've interpreted him the same. He seems pretty faithful to the underlying premise, if not the details. He's certainly more faithful than R'as Al Ghul from the first Batman Begins, and that turned out pretty well. And he's definitely looking more "accurate" than Romero's or Nicholson's versions.What?!? I would totally disagree with that, this version harkens to some of the '90s "dark" versions but generally is way off the mark for how the character looks most of the time, and I'd say the Jack version with the scarred mouth is much closer.

As for being like previous versions, he doesn't need to ape Jack or Caesar Romero, he just needs to be true to the essence of the comic character, and I didn't get that feeling in the trailer, I got the feeling of a more generic psychopath.


3) Either you watched a totally different Speed Racer cartoon than I did, or you have a different definition of character development. There's maybe five minutes in the entire series, and it's all within the first two-parter. When every story ends with the status quo exactly as it began, we're not talking about Citizen Kane.Speed learns about losing, about honor, about sacrificing winning for doing the right thing, about trusting his instincts, about relying on his friends, about corporate espionage, and about who Racer X really is. Most of this is done through his actions or inner monologue while he's in exciting worldwide races.

2-1B
05-09-2008, 06:11 PM
That image shows his thumb on his face and the knife handle pushing against his hair.

The handle is nested inside his hand...no contact with his hair. The trailer shows this.

JediTricks
05-12-2008, 04:01 AM
The handle is nested inside his hand...no contact with his hair. The trailer shows this.
You're mistaken, it's very clear that the handle is what's contacting his hair in the trailer, I just saw it again tonight.

I mentioned this in the Indy thread, but just like last week, the Indy trailer got a HUGE response from the audience, and then the TDK trailer right after it got barely a smattering of interest, and none enthusiastic except 1 guy who whistled.

I think I've figured out what's up there though, this trailer... it sucks. It's not a good trailer, it's very generic (aside from seeing Batman characters and vehicles), there's no real "story" to it, it's just cuts off riffs and beats from Joker's dialogue with its particular pacing.

El Chuxter
05-12-2008, 01:12 PM
He has a knife and he fixes his hair. Does it matter what he uses to fix his hair? He's the mother****ing Joker; he's a bad*** sicko either way. I'm sure this is not the pivotal plot point here.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-12-2008, 01:49 PM
He has a knife and he fixes his hair. Does it matter what he uses to fix his hair? He's the mother****ing Joker; he's a bad*** sicko either way. I'm sure this is not the pivotal plot point here.

I feel SLIGHTLY responsible for this one as I mentioned how it was creepy that the Joker fixed his hair in the trailer with the knife cos that's what I thought it looked like. I don't see how this debate has gone on anymore.

Posted by JT:


I mentioned this in the Indy thread, but just like last week, the Indy trailer got a HUGE response from the audience, and then the TDK trailer right after it got barely a smattering of interest, and none enthusiastic except 1 guy who whistled.

And that's relevant how, exactly? My theater was incredibly excited for BOTH trailers. Who really cares what theater had this reaction and whatnot? Both movies are going to do incredibly well at the boxoffice and will probably have a generally positive reaction from moviegoers (although, fanboys will ALWAYS find stuff to B and moan about....)


I think I've figured out what's up there though, this trailer... it sucks. It's not a good trailer, it's very generic (aside from seeing Batman characters and vehicles), there's no real "story" to it, it's just cuts off riffs and beats from Joker's dialogue with its particular pacing.

Holy crap, you're right.....there isn't a story to the trailer; oh cos THAT'S WHAT THE MOVIE IS FOR. What, did you want a rundown of the entire damn movie in the trailer? Batman faces off against the Joker while trying to deal with his own life and we also have Dent in there as well. What more do you want, dude?

I'll tell ya what JT, I usually ignore your pretty much constant complaining about EVERYTHING, but you're just reaching for straws with these two "points."

2-1B
05-12-2008, 06:22 PM
You're mistaken, it's very clear that the handle is what's contacting his hair in the trailer, I just saw it again tonight.


I just watched the trailer again and I still disagree because you can see his thumbs contacts his scalp and you can see space between the handle and his hair the whole time - you can see through to the area behind him. :)



Holy crap, you're right.....there isn't a story to the trailer; oh cos THAT'S WHAT THE MOVIE IS FOR. What, did you want a rundown of the entire damn movie in the trailer? Batman faces off against the Joker while trying to deal with his own life and we also have Dent in there as well. What more do you want, dude?

I'll tell ya what JT, I usually ignore your pretty much constant complaining about EVERYTHING, but you're just reaching for straws with these two "points."

Don't get too excited, JT's gonna hate Indy 4 anyway, so it doesn't matter what kind of reaction the trailer is getting in theaters. :thumbsup:

Beast
05-12-2008, 06:29 PM
It's gotta be better than Batman Begins. So I'm looking forward to it.

El Chuxter
05-12-2008, 06:40 PM
I'm not making any judgment call here, so don't see one where there's not one, but you're not a DC sort of guy, are you?

Aside from that post, the most negative thing I ever heard about Batman Begins was that it was just "good."

2-1B
05-12-2008, 06:48 PM
And that the Scarecrow sucked...he and the Tumbler were the worst things about it.

El Chuxter
05-12-2008, 07:03 PM
All right, I forgot Katie Holmes. Except when they filmed on what was clearly a chilly day. :beard:

Beast
05-12-2008, 07:11 PM
I'm not making any judgment call here, so don't see one where there's not one, but you're not a DC sort of guy, are you?

Aside from that post, the most negative thing I ever heard about Batman Begins was that it was just "good."
I love DC. Not as much as Marvel, but I enjoy the DC films and animated series. But Batman Begins was just dry, dull, and boring. The Burton films were pretty much perfect Batman films. Down to actually showing Bats as the Detective he's known for. Yet in Batman Begins, he's got Lucius Fox doing all of the hard work.

And like Ceaser mentioned, there's a bunch of other things about the film that are just meh. The Tumbler. Scarecrow. Ra's Al Ghul. It's just a boring trudging origins film, on par with Ang Lee's Hulk. Hopefully now that we're past the dull origins story the film will pick up. But so far, there's a few things that look off.

El Chuxter
05-12-2008, 07:14 PM
Huh. Okay, let's just agree to disagree on both Batman Begins and Hulk.

2-1B
05-12-2008, 07:15 PM
Correction: There are 3 things wrong with BB. I forgot about Katie Holmes, sorry about that. :)

I disagree with Beast because Bats Begins is WAYYYYYYYYYY better than The Hulk. Way better. :)

Beast
05-12-2008, 07:29 PM
Correction: There are 3 things wrong with BB. I forgot about Katie Holmes, sorry about that. :)

I disagree with Beast because Bats Begins is WAYYYYYYYYYY better than The Hulk. Way better. :)
Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree that it's better than Hulk. Most things are. Even Superman Retreads was better than Hulk. Other than Man-Thing, Ang Lee's Hulk is the worst Marvel film since Blade restarted the comic book franchise. Actually, I'd probably rather watch Man-Thing. It's shorter, so less awful.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-12-2008, 07:40 PM
Huh. Okay, let's just agree to disagree on both Batman Begins and Hulk.

I wouldn't worry too much about Beastie, Chux. Let's not forget: the man has an undying love for X3: THE LAST STAND. Maybe if BATMAN BEGINS had Kelsey Grammar in a Beast suit doing poor wire stunts, Beast would like it. :p


Caesar said:

Don't get too excited, JT's gonna hate Indy 4 anyway, so it doesn't matter what kind of reaction the trailer is getting in theaters.

lol definitely; in fact, i'll see that and raise you that he'll hate Indy AND TDK! :crazed:

General_Grievous
05-12-2008, 09:43 PM
I mentioned this in the Indy thread, but just like last week, the Indy trailer got a HUGE response from the audience, and then the TDK trailer right after it got barely a smattering of interest, and none enthusiastic except 1 guy who whistled.
I saw "Iron Man" at midnight, and people went nuts over the trailer. But I guess that's because most of the people in there were comic fans. But then again, the "Indy" trailer is supposed to be more upbeat and inspiring. The TDK trailer isn't really supposed to make you get up and cheer.

JediTricks
05-13-2008, 03:26 AM
And that's relevant how, exactly? My theater was incredibly excited for BOTH trailers. Who really cares what theater had this reaction and whatnot? Both movies are going to do incredibly well at the boxoffice and will probably have a generally positive reaction from moviegoers (although, fanboys will ALWAYS find stuff to B and moan about....)It came up in conversation prior and I thought it was worth mentioning since it happened the same way twice in 2 weeks. Stop trying to defend this movie against conversation. Oh, and don't forget to B and moan about people B'ing and moaning, this IS the internet after all. :p


Holy crap, you're right.....there isn't a story to the trailer; oh cos THAT'S WHAT THE MOVIE IS FOR. What, did you want a rundown of the entire damn movie in the trailer? Batman faces off against the Joker while trying to deal with his own life and we also have Dent in there as well. What more do you want, dude?That's a bad argument, and I'm a little disappointed in the tone. A good trailer gives you pieces of information, it tells its own story, it chains ideas together in a coherent manner while creating a sense of anticipation for the final version (this is different from the hype alone doing that). The TDK trailer doesn't, if the movie is as simplistic as you show it there, it's going to be a thin film, I'm hoping you're mistaken.


I'll tell ya what JT, I usually ignore your pretty much constant complaining about EVERYTHING, but you're just reaching for straws with these two "points."Hey, that's a really responsible and mature argument you've made there, coherent and totally adding to the discussion while accepting that others might have a different perspective from your own.


I just watched the trailer again and I still disagree because you can see his thumbs contacts his scalp and you can see space between the handle and his hair the whole time - you can see through to the area behind him. :)I watched VERY carefully for this, his thumb's on the handle and there's no space between the handle and his hair.


Don't get too excited, JT's gonna hate Indy 4 anyway, so it doesn't matter what kind of reaction the trailer is getting in theaters. :thumbsup:Only if it sucks. But don't worry, I'm sure no matter how many Jar Jar moments there are, you'll eat it up and ask for seconds. ;)



It's gotta be better than Batman Begins. So I'm looking forward to it.It does? I thought BB was really good, so that's a tall order. It would be nice if it was, but I'm not seeing how it's GOTTA be better.


I love DC. Not as much as Marvel, but I enjoy the DC films and animated series. But Batman Begins was just dry, dull, and boring. The Burton films were pretty much perfect Batman films. Down to actually showing Bats as the Detective he's known for. Yet in Batman Begins, he's got Lucius Fox doing all of the hard work.I gotta disagree with this, I just GOTTA! ;) I thought BB was really entertaining and none of the things you said. Meanwhile, the Tim Burton films are far from the character, and the detecting in 'em is pretty thin.

El Chuxter
05-13-2008, 08:30 AM
In fairness, TDK is a franchise that's been visited regularly in the past two decades since we got an Indy movie, and the trailer didn't show much that's not been seen already over the past several months. I honestly think they're going to both do pretty well.

If I'm passing on one, though, it's going to be the new George Lucas joint, yo.

2-1B
05-13-2008, 06:10 PM
I watched VERY carefully for this, his thumb's on the handle and there's no space between the handle and his hair.

The screencap I posted a few pages back shows his thumb out and away from the handle. This continues through the shot in the trailer.


Only if it sucks. But don't worry, I'm sure no matter how many Jar Jar moments there are, you'll eat it up and ask for seconds. ;)


My fear is that there won't be ENOUGH Jar Jar moments in this film.

JediTricks
05-13-2008, 09:17 PM
The screencap I posted a few pages back shows his thumb out and away from the handle. This continues through the shot in the trailer. You mean the shot of his thumb ON HIS FACE??? The only part of his thumb that could touch his hair is instead on the knife, his fingers are holding the knife mostly, and it shows SOMETHING moving his hair, it's the knife handle.


My fear is that there won't be ENOUGH Jar Jar moments in this film.You're a monster. I bet you'll enjoy Speed Racer. :p

Beast
05-13-2008, 09:22 PM
Jesus. Is the position of the knife that big of a deal that it's still being debated?

And re: Jar Jar moments. The sense of humor in the Indy movies have always been pretty JarJaresque. Tongues are planted pretty firmly in cheek.

JediTricks
05-13-2008, 09:44 PM
You see anything else keeping this thread alive?

mabudonicus
05-13-2008, 10:08 PM
yeah, me going right off the deep-end amd callin YOU, JT out for your constant Speed Racer diminishin'
:beard: Iso&Baws

I bet this film will be goofier then Speed, the Batman one that is

2-1B
05-13-2008, 10:41 PM
You mean the shot of his thumb ON HIS FACE??? The only part of his thumb that could touch his hair is instead on the knife, his fingers are holding the knife mostly, and it shows SOMETHING moving his hair, it's the knife handle.

Yeah, it's on his face and then he pushes away further and on toward his hair.
If he was using his left hand to do this, it would make sense that he's using the handle. However, his right hand is in play, reaching across his face with knife handle in his fingers. Maybe Nolan can clarify this on the DVD commentary. :thumbsup:


You're a monster. I bet you'll enjoy Speed Racer. :p

My prediction is that I would not enjoy Speed Racer...not a slam, just don't know anything about it. I will post about that in the relevant thread. :)

Beast
05-13-2008, 11:10 PM
You see anything else keeping this thread alive?
Point. Doesn't seem likely that the film will be very good then, does it. If the only thing worth discussing is whether he uses the knife to fix his hair or not. :p

2-1B
05-13-2008, 11:21 PM
I'm on the Heath bandwagon for this one, I'm really excited for his performance.

"Here's my card."

"and I'm gonna give it to 'em"

"ladies and gentle-men"

all 3 of those lines from the various trailers have me giddy, as well as the thing he does with his mouth agape in that other clip. And, of course, the way he fixes his hair with his thumb while holding a knife.

I'm pumped. :)

JediTricks
05-15-2008, 04:15 PM
Point. Doesn't seem likely that the film will be very good then, does it. If the only thing worth discussing is whether he uses the knife to fix his hair or not. :pJust to clarify, that's on you, I wasn't saying the film won't be any good.

Jayspawn
05-17-2008, 09:05 PM
I really cant wait for this film. I'm completely sold after seeing the latest preview.

Tycho
05-26-2008, 01:53 AM
This is the movie I'm looking forward to the most now as well.

Batman is my favorite super hero, and I'm not really into super heroes. But I dig Batman. He's really cool.

I don't know if it will be better than Batman Begins. I like "origin films." Christian Bale did a great job in the role, as did Liam Neeson in his role.

I'm about to watch that again tonight, I think. I haven't viewed Batman Begins in quite a long while and I really ought to. It was a great movie.

You can't make a movie that cool with almost any other super hero. Batman is just awesome because of everything that he is, that he became. I know that he's just the coolest you can get with any and all super heroes!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-16-2008, 10:37 PM
Beware spoilers.

http://www.whysoserious.com/myhero/


I almost crapped myself.

General_Grievous
06-17-2008, 01:48 PM
Beware spoilers.

http://www.whysoserious.com/myhero/


I almost crapped myself.

....Ho. Lee. Crap. Is it July 18th yet?

2-1B
06-19-2008, 07:43 PM
Gotta love that Tommy Lee Jones !

preacher
06-20-2008, 01:20 PM
I spotted this a couple days ago. It may only be a rear view but if you look closely you can see that the scarring (putting it mildly) Dent undergoes on the left side resembles that picture that was leaked about three weeks ago that Warner Bros has tried to pull. The exposed bone is revealed in the same spot in the video and the leaked photo. This makes me believe that THAT particular "conceptual" picture is the real deal. Makes Anakin's scarring look like a walk in the park. The picture is on a website called comicbookresources. I hope its legit.

El Chuxter
07-12-2008, 12:42 PM
Well, I saw a preview for this today, and it sucked.

Christian Bale this time seemed more like he was channeling Adam West as Batman. He was silly. And I'm disappointed by Ledger's performance as the Joker, too. His makeup was lousy. It almost looked like he'd applied the greasepaint over a moustache or something.

There were too many villains, and no one got any real attention. Why the Penguin and Riddler had to make appearances, I don't know. I could've done without Catwoman, too, but at least she's pretty cool in her role.

Joker's master plan of dehydrating the UN was just stupid. Absolutely stupid. He reduced them all to powder, but then Batman was able to rehydrate them back to normal. WTF? Logic? Reason? Simple basis in scientific fact? Is that too much to ask?

The low point came during a helicopter chase over the ocean. Batman was attacked by a shark! And he had to yell up to Robin (did I mention they shoehorned him into this fiasco) to throw him some Bat-shark repellent. Jeez. Can you believe it? That has to be the corniest line ever uttered in a movie.

All said, this is one you can avoid, unless you're really masochistic. I wish I had.

I'm still not sure why the sneak preview showing was late at night on a local affiliate, nor why the film looked so old.

General_Grievous
07-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Chux, you ignorant slut.

Beast
07-12-2008, 01:09 PM
Cute El Chuxter.

But Batman: The Movie will still be better than The Dark Knight.

General_Grievous
07-12-2008, 05:29 PM
But Batman: The Movie will still be better than The Dark Knight.
Please tell me you're joking.

Beast
07-12-2008, 06:15 PM
Please tell me you're joking.
Not at all. Batman Begins was long and dull.

I expect more of the same from The Dark Knight. Hopefully I'll be pleasently surprised.

But I'll still enjoy Batman: The Movie more. It's a great flick.

General_Grievous
07-12-2008, 07:03 PM
To each his own, I guess. I prefer the darker Batman to the campy "Let's dance like we snorted an 8-ball of coke at a swingers party" Adam West Batman.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-12-2008, 08:31 PM
Cute El Chuxter.

But Batman: The Movie will still be better than The Dark Knight.

Pay no attention to Binks; he thought X3 and Daredevil were fantastic movies, ie- his taste is kinda iffy. :p

El Chuxter
07-12-2008, 09:16 PM
For the record, I like Batman: The Movie, and consider the Shark Repellent Bat-Spray to be one of the greatest scenes of all time.

But I like it because it's cheesy (just like the old show it spun off from), not because it's what Batman should be.

And I doubt even Adam West would say it's better than Batman Begins or TDK. Especially without seeing TDK. :p

Easy trivia question: Adam West played Batman in the 1960s TV show, but has appeared on both subsequent Batman shows (Batman: The Animated Series and The Batman). Who did he play on each of these shows?

Beast
07-12-2008, 11:28 PM
To be fair, the 60's TV Show was only following the comics of that era.

Not to mention, without the 60's TV show we likely wouldn't have characters like Catwoman or The Riddler as well known as they are today. Check out the new Batman: The Movie Blu-Ray. DC had basically retired Catwoman due to the senate hearings on comic books. And Riddler had only appeared once or twice before his inclusion in the Batman TV Series. The TV series making use of Catwoman and basically establishing The Riddler did a lot for those two characters. Returning one to the pages of comics and basically establishing the other. Mark Hammil and Jim Carrey also based their takes on the characters of Joker and Riddler directly on the 60's show.

El Chuxter
07-13-2008, 10:34 AM
Well, not exactly.

Batman had become sci-fi in the 1950s, and had turned back to tame superheroing in the 1960s. It was weak, but not "camp." The book was on the verge of cancellation until someone (I forget who) saw Hugh Hefner's enthusiastic response to the (godawful) 1940s serials during a screening at the Playboy Mansion. (His ad-libbed comments were the direct inspiration for things like "KPOW!" and "WHAM!")

The comic was changed to match the TV show. Among other things, the costume had to be changed, and Alfred had to return from the dead. (He'd been killed off during the Wertham hearings, since three men in a house was a no-no.)

The show became a huge hit, and the comic got a sales boost and was saved from cancellation, meaning it's not like Wonder Woman and gets cancelled and revived every six months or so now.

Shortly after the cancellation of the show, guys like Denny O'Neil and Neil Adams had the privilege of essentially undoing everything that was tied in to the show. And they did an amazing job (though Grant Morrison currently seems dead set on re-doing it, for some reason).

Catwoman would've returned at some point. O'Neill went deep into Batman's history to dig up interesting villains like Hugo Strange who hadn't been used in ages (last in the early 1940s, IIRC). A longtime foe/love interest like Selina would've probably fallen under "interesting."

The Riddler's continued success may be more or less based on the TV show, but it's probably due more to his casting than the character. The producers wanted someone like the Joker, but not the Joker, and dredged out an essentially worthless villain. They did the same with the Puzzler, only who remembers the guy who played Puzzler? Though, to be honest, a Batman universe without the Riddler wouldn't be a great loss. It wasn't until Hush that anyone was able to make a real threat out of him.

I've never heard that Hamill based his Joker directly on Cesar Romero's. Yes, it was an influence, but his Joker is far more the insane sociopath, and less an unfunny clown who robs banks. About the only similarity I can come up with is the cackling.

So, yeah, the point I'm getting at is that the comic of the time was actually aping the show, not the other way around.

Thankfully, as much as I like the show, it didn't continue long enough for Marsha, Queen of Diamonds, to become ingrained in pop consciousness and remain an ongoing Batman villain.

Jayspawn
07-13-2008, 11:59 PM
Hamill's Joker rules.

2-1B
07-14-2008, 05:28 PM
I agree with Beast that Batman Begins was overrated.

I agree with Chux that the Bat-Shark Repellent scene was awesome.

I diagree with Beast and Chux that Batman The Movie was good overall.

I agree with myself that Heath Ledger gives a great performance in those trailers. 2-1B hopes the rest of the film is the same.

mabudonicus
07-14-2008, 05:48 PM
I agree with Deuce on points 1 through 3.

I disagree on point #4 but that's just me
:beard: Iso&Baws

Oyes the above is true

2-1B
07-14-2008, 05:58 PM
I disagree with mabudonicus' need to flame me for point #4.

JediTricks
07-14-2008, 10:49 PM
Easy trivia question: Adam West played Batman in the 1960s TV show, but has appeared on both subsequent Batman shows (Batman: The Animated Series and The Batman). Who did he play on each of these shows?Gray Ghost and the city mayor. From memory baby!!!

El Chuxter
07-14-2008, 11:05 PM
:thumbsup:

I'm a little surprised it took someone that long to get them! (Especially with "The Grey Ghost" being one of the best episodes of one of the best series ever.)

JediTricks
07-14-2008, 11:11 PM
:thumbsup:

I'm a little surprised it took someone that long to get them! (Especially with "The Grey Ghost" being one of the best episodes of one of the best series ever.)
If I had seen the thread earlier, I would have responded right away. Somehow, they were just right there waiting for me to answer. If it had been asked in a different way, it's possible I wouldn't have known the Gray Ghost, having not seen that episode in far too long. But for whatever reason, it was knowledge that was readily available.


BTW, I caught the new trailer for TDK. It's on the Gotham Knight DVD, and I saw it yesterday with Hellboy 2. It reinstills me with the belief that this one is gonna work well, and I'm anticipating seeing the movie several times.

RooJay
07-15-2008, 01:40 AM
So I noticed on OnDemand that they're currently running some promo shorts for Dark Knight, and lo and behold - they feature Anthony Michael Hall in character as some television news Anchor Man who (to my recollection) has heretofore never had anything to do with the Batman mythos in any form. I'm left to wonder why all the secrecy surrounding his casting then. It's not as though anyone would hear the name of his character and immediately realize major plot points. I mean, I consider my knowledge of comics (DC in particular) to be fairly encyclopedic, and though I can't at the moment remember the name of his character in those promos, I'm almost certain that the character is completely new to this film. Anyone else got any ideas as to what tha dealio?!

Tycho
07-15-2008, 02:54 AM
A bat is a flying rodent.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-18-2008, 03:28 AM
I just got back from the flick (and some grub afterwards) and I gotta say that this is not only a fantastic superhero film, but it's also a great mob film as well, one that would make Scorsese or Coppola proud. Everybody is on their game here and the Joker was INCREDIBLE to behold on screen. He's so demented, twisted, and he has some great moments onscreen, even some funny ones, which were funny in a very sick way.

Seriously, just superb on every level. :thumbsup:

Maradona
07-18-2008, 05:20 AM
Just got home from this. I typically, cynically go into films with low expectations so if the film isn't completely good, I am mostly unaffected. I went into this with very high expectations. The film surpassed them on every level.

God rest Heath Ledger's soul...

General_Grievous
07-18-2008, 01:22 PM
First of all, I'm not including any spoilers, so don't hesitate to read this. Everything positive you've heard about this movie is right. The new bar is set for superhero movies, and I doubt anything will ever top TDK.

This movie is so awesome that I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'll start with the performances. Heath Ledger's Joker is one of the most amazing villains I've ever seen on screen. Some of his mannerisms are hilarious and terrifying at the same time. It just saddens me that this will be the only time we'll ever be able to see the greatness that is Heath Ledger's Joker. Christian Bale once again did an awesome job as Bruce Wayne/Batman. Maggie Gyllenhaal made for a much more believable DA than Katie Holmes ever did. Aaron Eckhart gave a decent performance as Harvey Dent. I really liked his portrayal because at times it showed a darker side of Harvey even before he became Two-Face. But I think the other standout performance besides Ledger in the movie comes from Gary Oldman. Gordon freakin' owned in this movie. Thankfully they gave him much more screentime in TDK than "Begins", including a
great monologue at the end.

As far as the action goes, the Batpod vs. Joker's truck completely trumps the Tumbler chase from "Begins". But this is really more of a crime drama than an action film, which makes it the ultimate Batman flick. All the great Batman stories have been crime dramas, like "Long Halloween". And also, this movie shows off Batman's detective skills, which, I think, makes it the closest representation to the character on screen.

Overall, I think this is a great contender for "Greatest Superhero Movie Of All Time". Definitely the best Batman movie. It's definitely a movie that requires multiple viewings in order to soak everything in, which is why I'm going again at some point this weekend.

JetsAndHeels
07-18-2008, 01:45 PM
I am just getting back from seeing it, and I agree with all you said GG. Excellent film on all accounts...not sure what else to say besides the fact that it was superb.

I am going to see it again on Sunday....can't wait for another viewing.

Beast
07-18-2008, 02:22 PM
Just got back from seeing it.

Much better than Batman Begins, which I still have trouble sitting though. No offense to it's fans, but it's a really dull film. This movie's pacing is much better so it doesn't have these long periods of dull scenes interrupting the flow. Mostly cause it's not trying to tell an origin story, so at least Batman Begins worked like Phantom Menace and allowed Nolan to cut to the chase. So in that case Begins works to allow TDK to be better.

Ledger's Joker wasn't bad. But I'll still champion Nicholsan's Joker as being the better incarnation. Much more manic and in keeping with the comic counterpart. Ledger's Joker's elaborate plans all throught the movie border on the absurd. I wasn't sure whether Nolan was confusing Joker with Clock King or simply didn't care. In fact, Joker's intricate complex plans make Jigsaw's down to earth and realistic by comparison.

All in all it was a good film. Was it a good 'BATMAN' film? That's another question entirely. While I wouldn't consider myself an expert on the Dark Knight... I can't really say that it succeeds on that level. It seems like more of a case of Batman in Name Only. Hypocrisy example: For everyone who complained about guns on the Batmobile being out of character in Burton's version, the weaponry on the Batpod is even more so.

Qui-Long Gone
07-18-2008, 03:43 PM
Saw the midnight show and still trying to wake up at work.

I thought the film was good. For my money Gordon stood out more so than Joker.....Ledger was excellent. I loved the Two Face reign of terror because it was the most personal. I thought Bale settled into the Bat really well, especially since Begins was such a Bruce Wayne story.

The action was fun but nothing spectacular.

Best moment: everything from the hospital to the end.

Worst moment: can't really think of one since Holmes was out....

Best line: Joker explaining how he's like a dog chasing cars! Hahahaha.

Worst line: can't really think of one since Holmes was out....

Best new equip: Bat sonar! Awsome!

Left me wondering: Gordon's son played a fairly important role....will he become Robin?

Bel-Cam Jos
07-18-2008, 05:36 PM
Left me wondering: Gordon's son played a fairly important role....will he become Robin?I thought the same thing.

I won't be the wet blanket, and I'll also post spoiler-free, but I only found this to be really good, not great. It's pretty darn violent (surprised it kept a PG-13 rating, IMHO), but has a good mystery/twist plot that kept me guessing throughout. I'd think the film was about to come to and end, then there'd be some other plotline that opened up another thread. Well acted to be sure, but I can't call it my favorite super hero film ever.

But you should see it. Definitely worth it.

Tycho
07-18-2008, 09:48 PM
I think I'm seeing it Sunday due to my friend's schedule. But I'll see it more often than that. Tonight will be a madhouse, though.

Meanwhile, I don't think there will be a Robin in these films. I've heard before that to keep it dark and realisitc, as well as keeping Batman a vigilante hero and not a mentor-teacher-nice-guy, they don't want to introduce a side-kick for him. At least not for a long while.

I don't see how this has to follow in the footsteps of the older films. I love the approach they're taking now and I haven't even seen The Dark Knight yet.

Batman Begins was such a good movie. Feel like watching that again right now, as a matter of fact.

What's nice about it is there is an example of a movie I do not get sick of watching over and over again (Batman Begins) considering how much I've watched it lately as it is.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-19-2008, 09:34 AM
Meanwhile, I don't think there will be a Robin in these films. I've heard before that to keep it dark and realisitc, as well as keeping Batman a vigilante hero and not a mentor-teacher-nice-guy, they don't want to introduce a side-kick for him. At least not for a long while.

I don't see how this has to follow in the footsteps of the older films. I love the approach they're taking now and I haven't even seen The Dark Knight yet.Well, if they're following the formula of the Dark Knight comic series (maybe some of you read it as a graphic novel), Robin isn't treated very kindly in that (and, she was a girl) storyline. But I agree, let Robin come in (if at all) later.

Most disturbing details for me were all the people-in-danger and torture scenes. And Joker's lip licking. lol

El Chuxter
07-19-2008, 12:50 PM
No, that's The Dark Knight Returns, as opposed to any of the other multitudinous Batman titles and storylines incorporating the name "Dark Knight" (Legends of the Dark Knight probably being the longest running).

One thing that a lot of folks seemed to miss, and I've not seen Frank Miller speak of even though it seems obvious to me, is that The Dark Knight Returns isn't a future version of the current Batman, but a future version of the 1960s Batman set in the 1980s or 1990s of a dystopian alternate timeline.

preacher
07-19-2008, 08:40 PM
I just got back from the show. What can I say that hasn't been said already? The movie is better than Batman Begins and I enjoyed it immensely. They mean business in this one. The Joker's presense dominates the story even when he isn't actually on the screen. And he is every bit as nasty and chaotic as you have read.

My only complaint, and its a very minor one is that the mood was vastly different than the last one. But I really didn't get what some reviewers are saying regarding this being more of a mobster movie. Its a superhero movie but with urban terrorism as a central theme that just happens to have mobsters in it.

There is a cameo appearance by someone from Batman Begins. Totally wasn't expecting it. Great to see it to establish continuity.

General_Grievous
07-19-2008, 10:48 PM
There is a cameo appearance by someone from Batman Begins. Totally wasn't expecting it. Great to see it to establish continuity.
You mean Scarecrow?

Bel-Cam Jos
07-19-2008, 10:57 PM
You mean Scarecrow?I thought it was that extra, the one who'd walked across and pointed. :p

figrin bran
07-20-2008, 01:24 AM
Those of you that watch Lost (looks like just JMG in this thread thus far), how about Richard Alpert as the Gotham mayor. The Dharma folk sure get around.

Count me in the minority camp with Beast and BCJ. While it is worth seeing, I'm having tremendous trouble comprehending exactly why but I didn't feel completely satisfied after this film. I'll get flamed for this, undoubtedly but right now, I'd rather see Crystal Skull again over TDK. I don't usually gravitate too strongly towards crime dramas and so that might play a part in it.

Those of you hyping it up as the greatest superhero film ever might want to reserve that for the Watchmen next year :p

RUSHBOY
07-20-2008, 02:11 AM
Just got back from watching TDK and yes it is amazing !! The Joker stole the show from Batman and I give this 2nd best superhero movie of all time ! The number one spot goes to Superman 2 (kneel before Zod !)
:whip:

Tycho
07-20-2008, 02:12 AM
It's the tower in the ancient ruins of Crystal Skull, Figrin. When it changed shape it reminded you of a Transformer ;)

Indiana Jones and the Matrix of Metroplex!

But though I am seeing the film later today, I think the Batpod cycle thing comes out of the Batmobile (Tumbler) - though I'm not sure.

Can't you think of that as like an alt-mode similar to a Triple-Changer? :P

Hahahah.

JetsAndHeels
07-20-2008, 11:17 AM
I give this 2nd best superhero movie of all time ! The number one spot goes to Superman 2 (kneel before Zod !)
:whip:

Now there is an opinion I can agree with!! :)

preacher
07-20-2008, 11:23 AM
You mean Scarecrow?

Yessir. (I was trying to stay spoiler free)

Great that they got Cillian Murphy to reprise his role. However brief.

Phantom-like Menace
07-20-2008, 12:06 PM
Count me in the minority camp with Beast and BCJ. While it is worth seeing, I'm having tremendous trouble comprehending exactly why but I didn't feel completely satisfied after this film.

I'm with you too. I couldn't get excited from the previews and the movie itself didn't do much for me either. It didn't get good until they captured Joker and then it petered out again. Two Face was more or less absurd in that they vastly overdid the damage while expecting us to believe he's up and about in anything other than horrible, debilitating agony. The bat cycle left me shaking my head. It was bad enough when I thought he had that as a second vehicle. As an escape pod for the tumbler, it was even worse. And I think Ledger's getting too much credit for Joker, though I think it doesn't help that every time he smacked his lips all I could think about was an exaggerated imitation some of my friends do of another friend of mine.

Beast
07-20-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who isn't hailing it as the second coming. :D

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-20-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who isn't hailing it as the second coming. :D

Well, not everyone can have great taste Beast, so don't feel too bad about having bad taste. heheehehehehe :thumbsup: just messin'! :razz:

Glad to see that it smashed Spidey 3's record opening, making 156 million or so. My brother caught it in Chicago and he said that the IMAX showings were sold out until Wednesday afternoon. Insane. I plan to see it again this week as it's a masterpiece, IMHO. :thumbsup:

Beast
07-20-2008, 02:26 PM
Don't worry. I don't feel bad for you at all. :p

Glad it's doing well. Maybe Nolan will sit out Batman 3 and we'll get a more Batmanish film.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Don't worry. I don't feel bad for you at all. :p

Glad it's doing well. Maybe Nolan will sit out Batman 3 and we'll get a more Batmanish film.

And then maybe Brett Ratner could direct it and destroy the franchise like he did with your X3: THE LAST STAND? :whip:

What wasn't batmanish about it: it was dark, great action scenes, an insanely awesome villian, had detective work, presented choices and morals...I don't get how it wasn't Batman. This IS Batman, Binksy.

El Chuxter
07-20-2008, 03:04 PM
I'm a little confused myself. In one post, you say you're not a big Batman fan, and not as familiar with him, and, in another, you say Batman Begins and The Dark Knight aren't "Batmanish"?

Beasty, you got some 'splainin' to do! :D

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-20-2008, 03:29 PM
I'm a little confused myself. In one post, you say you're not a big Batman fan, and not as familiar with him, and, in another, you say Batman Begins and The Dark Knight aren't "Batmanish"?

Beasty, you got some 'splainin' to do! :D

Chux, maybe Beast has things confused with what a Batman comic is and what a Batman FILM is? Perhaps he thinks that Burton's vision was good or even Schumakers was better (God i hope not).

I'm confused just as you are, good sir.

El Chuxter
07-20-2008, 04:15 PM
I love both of Burton's Batman films, but as examples of Burton's vision. Neither is a good Batman film, per se.

Tycho
07-20-2008, 05:02 PM
This was the best movie I've seen since 2005 Revenge of the Sith!

I love it when the writers have real POINTS they're making with themes in the picture, and there were too many to count with this one!

There were so many ideas about prejudice (the two boats full of prisoners and civilians - which one should you destroy?)

And that there are people out there who just want to inflict pain - that IS their agenda - not money, not power.

From the bank robbery through "No - I'm supposed to kill the bus driver," this was an intense non-stop thriller.

The Hong Kong sequence was great too. Seeing Fox and Alfred in action.

The star-crossed lovers with Harvey Dent and Rachael Dawes - and the uh...unexected happening there (no spoilers)

I loved it when The Joker was playing a nurse and uses the hand sanitizer. I watched the film with my very close friend and she's a nurse and got a chuckle out of that.

I loved the mobster angle on this - such a real-world feel. And that the Bat Cave wasn't completed yet, made for great continuity between films, as well as the reprisal of the Scarecrow.

BTW, we don't think Two Face is dead. He can't be. And they didn't say.

I don't want to spoil an element of the ending, but it totally set up how Batman is to be portrayed, traditionally, in so far as the law regards him.

The guy playing Harvey Dent was great, too! His interaction with Heath Ledger in the hospital was one of many great, great moments!

Darth Jax
07-20-2008, 07:47 PM
Jack's Joker was perfect for Burton's film. Heath's Joker is perfect for this film (though the lip licking was annoying - i kept having Harry Potter flashbacks). i'm definitely in the minority but i didn't like Maggie as Rachel. Katie wasn't good, but i found Maggie to be worse. Gordon was the man, he stole the show in every scene.

Maradona
07-20-2008, 08:01 PM
I read somewhere that Nolan has a 3 hour cut of the film.

figrin bran
07-20-2008, 08:31 PM
This was the best movie I've seen since 2005 Revenge of the Sith!

I love it when the writers have real POINTS they're making with themes in the picture, and there were too many to count with this one!

You say that as if it rarely happens in movies.

So this is better than Transformers? Has Nolan supplanted Michael Bay as your director hero? :p


There were so many ideas about prejudice (the two boats full of prisoners and civilians - which one should you destroy?)


And yet all that resulted from that was the status quo. Both sides revealed their prejudices. They just decided not to act upon them.

Tycho
07-20-2008, 08:32 PM
Funny thing is, the movie seemed to go on-and-on, I wasn't even expecting a 2 1/2 hour movie. But it was constantly entertaining and full of action and great story-telling. I was relieved every time the movie DID NOT END.

I so badly want to see it again right now!

Tycho
07-20-2008, 09:05 PM
You say that as if it rarely happens in movies.

It does. That's why I wrote my novel, which I think would be "epic" as a movie. I have points and reasons for everything I wrote. Batman definitely did.

It was written by Jonathon Nolan, Christopher Nolan's brother. Christopher helped with the screenplay again (as he did on Batman Begins).


So this is better than Transformers? Has Nolan supplanted Michael Bay as your director hero? :p

Easily actually. I am very thankful for Michael Bay having actually made my dream come true of there being live-action Transformers, but I've acknowledged the problems (AllSpark, divergence from G1 as far as other opportunities, like using an adult theme referencing our energy crisis by way of having the Decepticons raiding our oil reserves, that sort of thing. Transformers missed some opportunities that I hope the sequel doesn't).

By contrast, The Dark Knight is an intellectual film. It leaves you with so many things to think about. I'm dizzy from considering it all now. I had great conversations about it with non-fans already (my date, for example).

The media is rightly hailing this for being as great as it is.



And yet all that resulted from that was the status quo. Both sides revealed their prejudices. They just decided not to act upon them.

That's a point I've long been making, even on these boards. I have my prejudices and defended them, too. I try to look at things and discuss them as they really are - and as JediTricks has pointed out, I will trust my own empiracle observations, which might be limited from a larger bigger picture. But I will stand by my own theories and convictions and trust my own judgement. But I also do my best not to act UNJUSTLY just because of them (for example, my distinction between someone who is prejudiced versus racist).

The Dark Knight threw this kind of situation in your face and made every member of the audience confront it in themselves. That is a powerful use of the media. Kudos to the Nolans for achieving this!

figrin bran
07-20-2008, 09:34 PM
You say that as if it rarely happens in movies.


It does. That's why I wrote my novel, which I think would be "epic" as a movie. I have points and reasons for everything I wrote. Batman definitely did.



Not as rare as you think. In fact, there's an animated film playing right now that is chock full of themes of consumerism, our over reliance upon technology, globalization and our world economy and for good measure, the dichotomy between man and machine. On top of that, it has strong character arcs, "hero's journey" type arcs too, that are beautifully interwoven together.

Tycho
07-21-2008, 12:55 AM
That Wall-E movie? Someone else told me that was good.

I'd pick that as a date movie, moreso than one I'd go see by myself or with my guy pals. Thing is, my most-often-date already saw that film for a girls' night out. I think that's who told me it was a good flick. Yup. It's all coming back to me now.

El Chuxter
07-21-2008, 01:16 AM
I caught Gotham Knight tonight in preparation of TDK Wednesday. It's good, but not great. Essentially a set of vignettes set before the final scene of Batman Begins but after the rest of the movie (not a huge spoiler, but it ends with Batman seeing the batsignal for the first time), it's hit and miss. Some stories are way too long and tedious, others are too short and don't feel fully realized. There's more or less an ongoing storyline between them, but it's not especially cohesive, and seems jumbled and out of order at several points.

Surprisingly, a story featuring Killer Croc kidnapping people on behalf of Scarecrow (by now totally deranged and living in the sewers), which sounds at first like the one least likely to fit in the more realistic Batman Begins universe, is by far the best. Another story with Deadshot started strong, but, dammit, they had to put him in that uber-retarded costume. Why can't we get an alternate reality version of Deadshot who's just a great assassin and not winner of the Dumbest Supervillain Costume award every year?

figrin bran
07-21-2008, 01:29 AM
That Wall-E movie? Someone else told me that was good.

I'd pick that as a date movie, moreso than one I'd go see by myself or with my guy pals. Thing is, my most-often-date already saw that film for a girls' night out. I think that's who told me it was a good flick. Yup. It's all coming back to me now.

So we have a 10 page thread about that film but because it doesn't fit your SSG agenda, you've ignored it, haven't you? :p I mentioned to JT that he should try to drag you to see Wall-E this week but he's reluctant as he thinks you won't like it. I say you need to prove him wrong :p

Just to keep somewhat on topic, Chux, the "Task Force X" episode of JLU was a good Deadshot story. As a bonus, he was in JLU Watchtower civvies most of the time and not the usual costume.

I own the previous 2 DCAnimated direct to DVD's (Doomsday and New Frontier) and was disappointed by both to varying degrees and so I decided to pass on Gotham Knight, not even bothering to rent.

El Chuxter
07-21-2008, 01:40 AM
You were disappointed by New Frontier? Wow. To each his own, I suppose. I thought it was one of the best direct-to-video movies I've ever seen.

Tycho
07-21-2008, 01:45 AM
So we have a 10 page thread about that film but because it doesn't fit your SSG agenda, you've ignored it, haven't you? :p

I have an SSG agenda? I wasn't aware of this. Could you fill me in? I may have to appoint someone to do my scheduling anyway.


I mentioned to JT that he should try to drag you to see Wall-E this week but he's reluctant as he thinks you won't like it. I say you need to prove him wrong :p

I treat my guests kindly. Last year I treated him and another friend to Transformers. This year, I think I'll offer The Dark Knight. I'm going to want to see that movie many times over. It's just too good.

I may read some Batman comics as well. I'll defer to El Chuxter's advice when I'm ready to get started. If there's one thing I'm really impressed wtih Chux, it's his knowledge of comics for certain.

figrin bran
07-21-2008, 02:08 AM
You were disappointed by New Frontier? Wow. To each his own, I suppose. I thought it was one of the best direct-to-video movies I've ever seen.

Slightly disappointed, Chux. That's why I put in that "to varying degrees" (Doomsday was rather disappointing). I enjoyed the graphic novels tremendously and although they did an adequate job translating it, something felt missing in the animated version.

I'll tell you what, I'll watch it again and see if I like it better.

Tycho, how coy of you to deny the agenda :p

Tycho
07-21-2008, 08:35 AM
Tycho, how coy of you to deny the agenda :p

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Please, if I've created a conspiracy, I want to be let in on it. It's my own conspiracy! How could I have excluded myself?

I think one of my multiple personalities is plotting against me!

preacher
07-21-2008, 10:58 AM
Jack's Joker was perfect for Burton's film. Heath's Joker is perfect for this film (though the lip licking was annoying - i kept having Harry Potter flashbacks).

Really? I thought the lip licking thing was great and really helped to show that the Joker was not right in the head. A testament to how much homework Ledger did to perfect his role. The scars bugged the hell out of the joker that much was obvious. He was licking the inside of cheek to feel the scaring. It was like an itch he couldn't scratch. I could totally relate. I have scarring in my mouth along my gum line (from a wisdom tooth pull gone bad) and it annoys me. I always run my tongue along that area of my mouth. Its a compulsion. Another compulsion I have is that I chew the skin between my left thumb and index finger when I am in deep thought about something. Drives my wife nuts. I'm otherwise a very normal, tax-paying law-abiding citizen.

I used to work in Safeway when I was a teen. And there was this one guy that exhibited very odd behavior. This cashier I had the hots for saw that I was watching this man follow the tile lines on the floor. But only the ones colored. She told me that he was looking for an opening so that he didn't have to cross over the black tiles. She was going to school to become a criminal psychologist and swore that the behavior was a trademark of someone that has a split personality disorder.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-21-2008, 11:08 AM
Really? I thought the lip licking thing was great and really helped to show that the Joker was not right in the head. A testament to how much homework Ledger did to perfect his role. The scars bugged the hell out of the joker that much was obvious. ... Drives my wife nuts. I'm otherwise a very normal, tax-paying law-abiding citizen.

I used to work in Safeway when I was a teen. And there was this one guy that exhibited very odd behavior. ... She was going to school to become a criminal psychologist and swore that the behavior was a trademark of someone that has a split personality disorder. I noticed the lip-licking, too. It bugged me, but in a good character strengthening way. Does that mean his "issues" could've been fixed with a simple visit to Dr. 90210? (hey, that sounds like a Batman villain name! ) :D

So, the old "step on a crack..." line means that well-intentioned sons are all nutso in the head? ;) I'd better watch out... :tired:

General_Grievous
07-21-2008, 11:25 AM
(though the lip licking was annoying - i kept having Harry Potter flashbacks).
But the Harry Potter villain (Barty Crouch Jr) didn't lick his lips. He did this weird snake-tongue thing. With the Joker, it was more like a licking his wounds type of thing.

preacher
07-21-2008, 12:53 PM
So, the old "step on a crack..." line means that well-intentioned sons are all nutso in the head? ;) I'd better watch out... :tired:

Man, I hope I didn't offend. I was only pointing out that behaviorial quirks are pretty common.

The guy at safeway wasn't trying not to step on cracks as much as he was pacing the tile lines looking for an opening. Even though there wasn't a wall the stark contrast of black on cream convinced him there was a very physical boundary. Me being a mild-mannered bag boy I couldn't help seeing this man pacing back and forth like he was a lion in a cage.

2-1B
07-21-2008, 05:30 PM
I'm gonna review it this way,

The movie was very good but overhyped.

The performance by Ledger was great and actually overhyped because it was VERY outstanding but I felt it was underused. As great as he was, he should have been in it MORE. Also, I feel they clipped out a few of the shots from the trailer that I liked. For example, that single clap he did in the jail cell was not in the film IIRC - they just showed him clapping excitedly at Gordon's promotion.

Hey, did anybody else notice how Joker did NOT comb his hair with that knife? I saw this flick on an Ultrascreen and it was plain as day to me that he just used his thumb while holding the knife. :lipsrsealed::lipsrsealed::lipsrsealed:


Best line: Joker explaining how he's like a dog chasing cars! Hahahaha.

Indeed ! That was my favorite as well. :D


it's also a great mob film as well, one that would make Scorsese or Coppola proud.

HUH? :confused:


Those of you that watch Lost (looks like just JMG in this thread thus far), how about Richard Alpert as the Gotham mayor. The Dharma folk sure get around.

The guy with the eyeliner? Yeah, that was annoying. :crazed:

Bel-Cam Jos
07-21-2008, 06:51 PM
Man, I hope I didn't offend. I was only pointing out that behaviorial quirks are pretty common.No offense taken. I sort of do some of those things myself, but I hope I'm not bipolar [Shut up! they'll hear you!] Of course they will; I just typed this [Idiot! this will ruin all my plans!] Your plans? What about mine? [I don't care about... wait, are you typing all this?] Yes. Why? [Urrg... ]

:D Sorry if that was offensive to anyone. [No you aren't! I should know...]




And I did notice that the knife was just in his hand, but it was his gloved hand that "combed" his hair.

And while I said one time was enough for me, I might check this one out one more time before the summer wanes away.

Tycho
07-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Bel-Cam, you have multiple personalities, too?

I got an idea. I got to get rid of Tycho. That guy drives me nuts!

Let's get your extra personality and mine together, and then nuclear irradiate them!

10 to 1 we could count on JediTricks to help!

(I hope Tycho doesn't see this post.)

Tycho
07-21-2008, 09:07 PM
Actually Josh, nuclear irradiation is a very cruel and painful way to get rid of someone.

I'm shocked you're capable of such callousness.

I should punch you in the head!

FEEL THAT? There's your nuclear irradiation $#@!!#@!

Jerk. :mad:

Darth Jax
07-22-2008, 12:06 AM
But the Harry Potter villain (Barty Crouch Jr) didn't lick his lips. He did this weird snake-tongue thing. With the Joker, it was more like a licking his wounds type of thing.

they both look like lizards with their tongues.

i can understand why Joker did it, but it was just distracting for me and had been done before. speaking of done before, i remember watching Johnny and his hair and a knife - and he never did get his $2.

RooJay
07-22-2008, 02:00 AM
Sorry folks that I haven't got time to read through all the comments from over the weekend (I'm usually nowhere near a computer on my days off, and looks like you guys have been busy!) Just wanted to comment on how much I was blown away by this movie! It really exceeded my already high expectations on every level. Heath Ledger's Joker was truly amazing - so genuinely frightening and hilarious at the same time! My favorite Joker moment from the movie was the magic trick he does for the Gotham Underworld crowd during his big reveal! That "TaDAAA!" was priceless! The best thing about the Joker, and the movie in general, in my opinion was that as strong as the character was, he still didn't overpower Batman, or even most of the other characters for that matter. Especially not in the way Jack Nicholson's Joker overshadowed Michael Keaton's Batman. I'm now even more sad at having lost Heath Ledger so early in what was sure to be a very successful and a praise-worthy career.
I used to always wish that the Joker could be as cool in the movies as he was in the comics. Nicholson came closest, but still fell short as far as I'm concerned. Now I really wish the Joker could be as cool in the comics as he is in the movies!

Tycho
07-22-2008, 02:28 AM
I want to sing some praises for Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent.

Whoa! What a great performance. Let's not forget Two Face!

I'm all for him being in another film as well.

Do you think he's dead DEAD? It looked that way but neither Gordon nor Batman said...

figrin bran
07-22-2008, 02:35 AM
! The best thing about the Joker, and the movie in general, in my opinion was that as strong as the character was, he still didn't overpower Batman, or even most of the other characters for that matter. Especially not in the way Jack Nicholson's Joker overshadowed Michael Keaton's Batman. I'm now even more sad at having lost Heath Ledger so early in what was sure to be a very successful and a praise-worthy career.
I used to always wish that the Joker could be as cool in the movies as he was in the comics. Nicholson came closest, but still fell short as far as I'm concerned. Now I really wish the Joker could be as cool in the comics as he is in the movies!

I do feel that in many ways, Joker did overpower Batman. On any day, Bats should be able to own Joker in hand to hand combat yet Joker held his own and got a few good licks in.

He, meaning the Joker, also seemed too Luthor-like in his ability to concoct schemes and to allow for every possible scenario. In the DC verse, there are a few that are great at that but usually one doesn't think of the Joker as being one of them. You think of Batman as one and yet time and time again, he gets flummoxed.

Acting wise, I do feel that Ledger overshadowed Bale which is understandable as the role of the Joker demands a greater range than that of Batman. As such the film is not so much "The Dark Knight" as it is "The Joker Strikes Back"

RooJay
07-22-2008, 02:56 AM
I want to sing some praises for Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent.

Whoa! What a great performance. Let's not forget Two Face!

I'm all for him being in another film as well.

Do you think he's dead DEAD? It looked that way but neither Gordon nor Batman said...

I have a strong feeling that (given comments made in the past, before this film was completed, by Christopher Nolan) Harvey may be dead and gone, but that Two-Face may have been secretly and quietly locked away up in Arhkam. Wouldn't want the good folks of Gotham knowing what really became of their White Knight, but imagine what could happen if Two-Face were to ever get out!

RooJay
07-22-2008, 03:02 AM
I do feel that in many ways, Joker did overpower Batman. On any day, Bats should be able to own Joker in hand to hand combat yet Joker held his own and got a few good licks in.

He, meaning the Joker, also seemed too Luthor-like in his ability to concoct schemes and to allow for every possible scenario. In the DC verse, there are a few that are great at that but usually one doesn't think of the Joker as being one of them. You think of Batman as one and yet time and time again, he gets flummoxed.

Acting wise, I do feel that Ledger overshadowed Bale which is understandable as the role of the Joker demands a greater range than that of Batman. As such the film is not so much "The Dark Knight" as it is "The Joker Strikes Back"

Well, if hangin' out in these forums all this time has taught me anything it's that everyone will have their own equally valid opinion and their own reasons for arriving there. For me, I never once felt like I was watching anything other than a Batman movie. More so than any other Batman movie that had come before. In fact, I felt that the movie made an excellent point in that Batman and Joker really are unequivocally two halves of the same coin. So in a way, from my perspective in this movie (like no other) the Joker really served the purpose of really underlining who and what Batman is.

JediTricks
07-22-2008, 04:31 AM
I caught Gotham Knight tonight in preparation of TDK Wednesday. It's good, but not great. Essentially a set of vignettes set before the final scene of Batman Begins but after the rest of the movie (not a huge spoiler, but it ends with Batman seeing the batsignal for the first time), it's hit and miss. Some stories are way too long and tedious, others are too short and don't feel fully realized. There's more or less an ongoing storyline between them, but it's not especially cohesive, and seems jumbled and out of order at several points.

Surprisingly, a story featuring Killer Croc kidnapping people on behalf of Scarecrow (by now totally deranged and living in the sewers), which sounds at first like the one least likely to fit in the more realistic Batman Begins universe, is by far the best. Another story with Deadshot started strong, but, dammit, they had to put him in that uber-retarded costume. Why can't we get an alternate reality version of Deadshot who's just a great assassin and not winner of the Dumbest Supervillain Costume award every year?Gotham Knight is a mess, but I enjoyed it, I didn't regret buying it (though, keep in mind, I bought it the day I had my wisdom tooth pulled, so it was a "keep me from being bored" choice). Too many wild style changes without changing the story stylings enough. Not enough variety of characters. The loose continuity to TDK was a nice pickup but I would have liked to have seen more body around that which wasn't silliness. The Deadshot one was the most comic-like, and the one I enjoyed the most. Finally, while I think Kevin Conroy is a great animated Batman actor, here he feels overused. Overall, it's good, but it lifts from that BTAS ep "Legends of the Dark Knight" too heavily in the beginning, and it's not as visionary or wearing the impact of the Animatrix.

Pretty sure that wasn't the batsignal for the first time, it doesn't quite fit. Gordon is still on the run from Deadshot so he likely didn't turn it on, and Gordon talks about recent events in Batman Begins the first time they do the bat signal which wouldn't fit here, and Batman faces mobsters and situations that are closer to the timeline of TDK than BB.

Oh, and that Killer Croc story is Goyer's, so no surprise it's the best.



So, on Saturday night, I picked up tix to Sunday's 2:45 showing, and got down there an hour 15 ahead of time to find about 20 people in line ahead of me, which is only a little more than I expected. I sat in the sun with only my cap to protect from the sun, and got a sunburn on my forearms for my troubles.

Nearly everything from the Warner Bros logo through Batman's Hong Kong adventure didn't work for me - pacing was off, style was off, and setting was off. Setting is the one area where this film utterly drops the ball, where last time we got a very keen sense of feeling about Gotham being Gotham, here it was far too much Chicago and little else. The end of the bank robbery was kinda good, but that's the only bright spot from that period - even Lucious' gizmo-related shenanigans were too risky and too over the top (oh, and ballerinas aren't shaped like THAT... ever!). But when the Joker makes his entrance on the mob meeting and does his pencil disappearing trick, that sets up this character perfectly.

Ledger's Joker is nearly note-perfect, he is that comics character, the deranged murderer who has no clear motives, who laughs at jokes nobody else would get, who sees the humor in anarchy and has no stomach for the champions of the status quo of hypocrisies. Ledger plays this with an amazing array of personality traits and shifts in behavior, he keeps you guessing where his madness will take him next because it seems like even he doesn't entirely know, he sees the framework of broad plans but the details don't entirely concern him. He is fascinated by the Batman because Bats is both a champion of the status quo and a master of breaking the status quo for his goals. Nearly every word out of the Joker's mouth is played perfectly, and it's as much a testament to the writers as it is to the actor, everybody there did their piece right and delivered one of the best cinematic performances of all time. It is with only nostalgia's sadness that I say Ledger's Joker erases Nicholson's Joker completely, Nicholson was cutting edge compared to Cesar Romero and now Ledger has made Nicholson's performance look as antiquated as Romero's; the only thing truly left now in Burton's Batman is that batmobile.

The Hong Kong bit left me cold, that evacuation especially disappointed because it borrows from better stuff like Dr No and The Green Berets, and feels so thoroughly un-Batmanlike. What the hell does Batman need with some chartered flight? He's captain ninja! He can just swoop out of the building and go underground - that aspect felt so un-Batman that I wondered where it came from.

Then, when the Joker got going, everything changed. The whole movie came together, Harvey Dent was something more interesting, Gordon was downright amazing, and there was so much to say and do. I would disagree that this batmobile sequence was better than BB's, I felt like it was a real letdown and painfully obvious and just underwhelming except when that 18-wheeler flipped and when Batman went up the wall - everybody loved that.

Harvey Dent kinda ebbed and flowed, but got more interesting as we went along. Rachel annoyed me throughout again largely because Maggie Gyllenhaal A) aped Katie Holmes' behavior and voice; and B) is shot in a notably unattractive manner (she doesn't have great features to begin with, but there's ways to do makeup and shoot her so it doesn't hit the audience so damned hard). Rachel's storyline fulfills in some important ways that I appreciate though.

Christian Bale I didn't think really delivered as much here as I would have liked, he was more "guy in suit growling" than a main story character the way he was in BB. There's too many cut up pieces of story for him to play and the part comes off fragmented and underperforming for me. Also, Batman CSI is not really all that interesting.

But largely, the movie really keeps going and going solidly and amazingly from about 20 minutes in until the last 3 minutes, and nearly all of that is thanks to Gordon and the Joker.

I didn't really care for how Two-Face was presented at all, it was over the top, he wasn't merely twisted, he was DESTROYED, and there's just no way he wouldn't be in a coma from the pain, not to mention horribly infected. They took that business too far, and I always felt a little conscious of it once we were there, too CG. And it's tragic because that could have set up the next movie much better if we hadn't taken Harvey to this point here only to give him so little time in which to be who he is to become, especially when the Harvey Dent we have here is already dang interesting and already fantastic at showing his duality without that mess. If that had been set up for Batman Begins 3, I would have applauded it, but to take him through the transformation and into his final moves so quickly and sloppily, it left me cold. And I am sure they meant him to be dead, he's not wearing body armor or a cape to slow him, the dialog supports his death, and Bats moves his head in a way suggesting he's no longer among the living.

So there's this great finale, and Tiny Lister gets one of those "cheer for someone doing the right thing" moments that almost feels cliche but is done in such a note-perfect way that it highlights how the good people can fall. But then there's another finale, it's weak as hell and doesn't have a chance to do anything, and then Gordon and Bats talk about how to spin stuff so Bats needs to be the city's bad guy - excuse me, why?!? What the hell is this? What kind of bullcrap self-martyrdom is going on here and why do we have to suffer it? "Because he can, because we need it"?!? My Aunt Fanny! Why exactly can't these just be unsolved, or blamed on the Joker (since they really are his fault, in a way), or just don't lie to the people? Yes, it makes the noble cover-up feel important, and it makes Batman's life more difficult as it often is in the comics, but Batman put the people's lives at risk and took down an entire SWAT team and was incredibly irresponsible with private property (blowing up a bunch of cars right next to kids just to drive your oversized batcycle? Lame) - there's plenty to make Bats' life more difficult in the future without this bunko "a fake murderer running from the cops" crap.

And what of these weird almost-a-piece-of-the-story elements like Scarecrow (and was he the guard on the ship?), or Mike Engel, or the mayor (who played Bat Manuel in The Tick live-action) having none of the impact he should have?

So basically, I gave this film a strong 8/10. I would say after the first 20 mins or so this movie is nearly perfect, an incredibly complex film in some very satisfying ways (if you can take the Joker without the cartoon or previous movie or the '60s TV show), but then the last 3 minutes underwhelms enough to leave a bad taste in the mouth. Still very much worth seeing, but more for the Joker, Gordon, most of Harvey Dent's story arc, some of the action, and eventually even Batman a little.

Beast
07-22-2008, 07:41 AM
So there's this great finale, and Tiny Lister gets one of those "cheer for someone doing the right thing" moments that almost feels cliche but is done in such a note-perfect way that it highlights how the good people can fall. But then there's another finale, it's weak as hell and doesn't have a chance to do anything, and then Gordon and Bats talk about how to spin stuff so Bats needs to be the city's bad guy - excuse me, why?!? What the hell is this? What kind of bullcrap self-martyrdom is going on here and why do we have to suffer it? "Because he can, because we need it"?!? My Aunt Fanny! Why exactly can't these just be unsolved, or blamed on the Joker (since they really are his fault, in a way), or just don't lie to the people? Yes, it makes the noble cover-up feel important, and it makes Batman's life more difficult as it often is in the comics, but Batman put the people's lives at risk and took down an entire SWAT team and was incredibly irresponsible with private property (blowing up a bunch of cars right next to kids just to drive your oversized batcycle? Lame) - there's plenty to make Bats' life more difficult in the future without this bunko "a fake murderer running from the cops" crap.
Agreed with most of your points, especially the over the top damage to Two-Face.

Someone actually came up with a halfways decent explaination for how this actually isn't as horrible an ending as originally viewed. I agree, I myself felt it was easier to take the blame off Harvey by putting it on the Joker or one of his associates. But in some ways it also works. All throught the movie we see the criminal element of Gotham no longer fearing the bat. They know he has morals and there's a line he won't cross. They basically spit that in his face time and time again. Now everyone believes that The Batman has crossed this line. He's killed criminals. So while it does destroy the trust Batman has built with the Police and shake the belief that Gotham has in him, he's more effective now with the criminals because they believe he might kill them. In fact, that means in some ways The Joker won. He knows he destroyed Dent, but that wasn't his original target anyway. He's managed with his schemes to tarnish Batman. So in a ways there's yet another elaborate scheme that Joker managed.

Beast
07-22-2008, 07:48 AM
Also some early interesting Blu-Ray news from Nolan:

Nolan and Thomas both brought up the anticipated Blu-ray version and its capabilities. Nolan summed it up by saying, "The Blu-ray, in particular, will be able to actually use the shifted aspect ratios as it appears on the IMAX screen because the 16:9 aspect ratio is sufficiently different from the 2.4 that you'll actually see a shift on the Blu-ray. The resolution on the Blu-ray is clear enough that you can actually see difference in grain structure and sharpness. So I think it will be quite spectacular."
http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=6466

vader121
07-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Although just about everything has been said about Dark Night I feel compelled to give my 2 cents worth ...

The movie was spectacular (I don't use that word much but it fits here).
Heath's Joker was just awesome. A real sinister, crazy psychopath. I only wish they would have shown what happenned to the guy-who-played-Spawn's henchmen. Maybe on the dvd release. I really wanted to see more blood at the hands of the Joker. I just loved him as the villian.
Funny and ruthless all at the same time.

Acting was superb and there were a lot of familar faces in the cast. I didn't like Gylennhal though. Sorry but they could have picked someone a little better looking I think. I know that's harsh but it is what it is.

I haven't enjoyed a movie in the theater this much since ROTK. Although Wall-E was very good.
I will probably see Dark Night again. Just excellent. :yes:

El Chuxter
07-22-2008, 10:06 AM
Pretty sure that wasn't the batsignal for the first time, it doesn't quite fit. Gordon is still on the run from Deadshot so he likely didn't turn it on, and Gordon talks about recent events in Batman Begins the first time they do the bat signal which wouldn't fit here, and Batman faces mobsters and situations that are closer to the timeline of TDK than BB.

I was mainly going off the surprise Batman seems to show when he sees the signal. Deadshot, however, is imprisoned, facing the death penalty, and he even said Gordon was a ruse and the real target was Batman.

The "recent events" you referred to are Scarecrow being on the loose and the Narrows still being shut down, right? The one vignette looked like they'd just essentially chained up the Narrows for the time being, and there was still fear toxin lingering in the air in some places. So they haven't really started to take it back yet. And Scarecrow, well, he's lost in the tunnels, so he's still on the loose.

I don't know how much time lapse is between Batman Begins and TDK, but I was assuming it wasn't much. It seems strange that Gordon would tell Batman that the criminals are upping their game, hand him the Joker's card, and then they'd ignore the Joker altogether for a while. From what I've seen, this Joker doesn't seem like he'd be content laying low, either. Regarding the "upping their game," Joker would be the second "costumed" loony in Gotham. This Croc is a diseased fellow, and Deadshot wore (stupid-looking) armor and targeting devices. I'll just assume everything regarding that moronic flying ninja guy was totally exaggerated by the kids and he wasn't as powerful as the first sketch made him out to be.

Speaking of which, how many freaking times has that "four or five people discuss Batman, exaggerating him in different ways, and then the real Batman shows up" bit been done now?

Bel-Cam Jos
07-22-2008, 11:30 AM
I don't know if anyone's started this yet, but what plotlines do you think would work for movie #3? How will Ledger's death affect the ability to use the Joker again with another actor, or will they go Troy McClure and just pretend he isn't around anymore?

Villain-wise, maybe a Bane who's not a raving brute with a push-button start? Catwoman? :lipsrsealed:

Droid
07-22-2008, 02:26 PM
I think Bane is too big a villain for a Batman movie. I think that the Knightfall story is great, but doesn't fit too well into the two hour format. Same with Superman and Doomsday.

I think the Catwoman femme fatale bit gets kind of played out and I would actually like to see them not have a love interest in the next one.

I bet they don't mention the Joker in the next movie and I would boycott a recast.

I think the Penguin is too broad for the realistic angle they are going for. Exploding umbrellas and an army of birds are a bit much. I hear in the current comics he is a nightclub owner who skirts the law and is eccentric. That might be a good angle to use the character, but not make him the next villain.

Most of the other villains are a bit obscure.

I think if Two Face isn't dead they should consider using him more (though when I saw the movie I really thought he was dead).

I think it should be the Riddler, but that they should stray from the typical idea that he is just aching to get caught if Batman can solve the riddles. Maybe they should have Batman busy solving the riddles to save lives while the Riddler is actually up to something bigger. However, they should avoid a Die Hard with a Vengeance type feel.

I think the third movie will be hard to do properly; this movie is a tough act to follow. They need to avoid third movie itis where they have WAY too many villains.

It would be nice to see Wayne Manor and the Batcave up and running. I don't mind the Bat Cycle, but they should avoid a plane or jet of some kind.

By the way, I thought the Dark Knight was great, but thought Batman deciding to be labeled a cop killer was unnecessary, particulary since many crimes in Gotham go unsolved and they could have blamed it on the Joker. And wasn't Batman supposed to be a symbol of hope for Gotham? They kept calling Dent the White Knight but he was dead, not much hope there.

LTBasker
07-22-2008, 09:31 PM
I was quite pleased with the result of the movie, I went in trying not to get my hopes up too high based on reactions I had been reading for the past few days, but it was difficult. Fortunately, it didn't fail to live up the hype. I was waiting eagerly everytime the film hit a calm point, but it wonderfully transitioned right back into action and intrigue every time. Heath Ledger's Joker did seem to have bits of Nicholson, especially when it came to his speech while hanging upside-down, in which that scene was a pleasant nod to the Burton film, considering that it was a lethal fall that was the end for the Joker. This wasn't the only nod I found, they seemed to give a creative nod to the comic/animated appearances of Batman with the cowl eyeholes filled in with only white when it came to the sonar integration. Going back to the Joker, it actually made me feel a little odd for laughing at the humorous bits with him, not because it was badly done, rather because what he was doing at the time defined villainy, but Ledger managed to pull of the sadistic humor so well.

It was nice to see that they didn't immediately go into use of the new Batsuit, however I think he could have gone slightly longer in the Begins-style suit, it just seemed odd that Fox was able to make it so quickly and with so many new features, granted money was nearly no object, but still probably should have taken slightly longer. The destruction of the Tumbler was saddening, although it wasn't completely destroyed, and there should be another based on lines from Begins.

"She was built as a bridging vehicle. During combat, two of these would jump over a river, towing cables. Over here on the throttle, flip that open and throttle up. This will boost you into a rampless jump."
"We never could get the bridge to work, but this baby works just fine."

It implies that there is a second Tumbler ready to go, so hopefully it will see a return. Although, I wouldn't mind it being slightly modified. Which brings me to my next topic; the Batpod. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, I'm glad it was quite under-used, and even included another nod to the first Burton Batman film as Joker and Batman play chicken, but instead of the Batwing it was the Batpod. The only thing I didn't really like was the launching of the Batpod, I would've rather seen bits of the Tumbler blow apart in order for it to be able to escape, much like a figher jet's canopy being blown off by mini-explosives, with the way it was done it had too much of a *poof* sort of appearance. The only other thing that bugged me regarding the Batpod was the scene with Batman driving into a wall, and doing a 180. I could believe the very round tire being able to go up the wall, but the cannons should have slammed into the wall first, and the 180 turn wreaked of weakly done CGI.

Overall though, I enjoyed it quite a bit and am quite glad I wasn't letdown from overhype. As for sequels, I could understand why people could consider this the end-all, be-all followup, but I think it just begs for at the very least a trilogy to complete it, one that truly brings Batman into his normal "routine." Hopefully including a more comfortable, and intimidating voice than a gruff whisper. I'm not sure who exactly I would like to see though. I'd really like a Mr. Freeze that is portrayed along the lines of the determined, cold but still hearted version from Batman: The Animated Series, possibly played by Hugo Weaving. I'm just not sure if he could really be a realistic enough villain to fit in with this, and people are still left with the bad taste in their mouth from Batman & Robin. I suppose if I had to pick the most likely candidates, I'd go with the Riddler (based on his Batman: The Animated Series attitude and appearance, rather than the campy verisions) played by Jason Isaacs, and possibly Catwoman.

Catwoman and the Riddler actually seem like the best duo to really evolve Batman further. Catwoman because obviously he lost Rachel, so it would give him yet again that impossible-to-get relationship to shoot for, and the Riddler could really bring him into taking more of an educated and detective approach to solving things.

RooJay
07-23-2008, 03:00 AM
Villain in the sequel - c'mon?! Harvey might be dead, but I'm almost certain Two-Face is alive and well, having been locked quietly away in Arkham...

Also, I'm really sad that we won't ever get to see Heath Ledger play the Joker again, but the character is too important to let die with him. I wouldn't mind at all seeing the continuing effects of the Joker's schemes in future sequels even if we never get to see him on screen again. I honestly would not be averse to seeing someone else step into the role either. Sure, no one could ever manage to do it the same that Ledger did it, but I'm betting Johnny Depp wouldn't be too bad. You have to admit that there would seem to be a slight resemblance when all that make-up is applied, and Depp is also a fantastic actor.

Droid
07-23-2008, 09:40 AM
Villain in the sequel - c'mon?! Harvey might be dead, but I'm almost certain Two-Face is alive and well, having been locked quietly away in Arkham...

Also, I'm really sad that we won't ever get to see Heath Ledger play the Joker again, but the character is too important to let die with him. I wouldn't mind at all seeing the continuing effects of the Joker's schemes in future sequels even if we never get to see him on screen again. I honestly would not be averse to seeing someone else step into the role either. Sure, no one could ever manage to do it the same that Ledger did it, but I'm betting Johnny Depp wouldn't be too bad. You have to admit that there would seem to be a slight resemblance when all that make-up is applied, and Depp is also a fantastic actor.

I think it would be inviting comparison and cries of "not as good as Ledger".

Also, where do you really go with it? Would they go dark enough to have the Joker attack Gordon's family like in the Killing Joke? Short of that, you would just have the Joker hurting more people and Batman stopping him. It would be a Dark Knight retread. The Joker laid it out in the Dark Knight: they won't kill each other. I think they should let the Joker go completely, maybe mention him.

Mvader91
07-23-2008, 11:15 AM
The dark knight I guess is truly dark. Bale arrested for battering mother and sister?

2-1B
07-23-2008, 05:55 PM
Classy lad, that one.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-23-2008, 07:02 PM
The dark knight I guess is truly dark. Bale arrested for battering mother and sister?

Here is the actual story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2448942/Christian-Bale-'fought-with-mother-after-she-insulted-his-wife'.html

Didn't assault, just yelled at his mother loudly after he started bad mouthing his wife; I see nothing wrong with that. :thumbsup:

Tycho
07-24-2008, 02:55 AM
Wait: Are you implying there's something WRONG with misogyny?

RooJay
07-24-2008, 03:48 AM
I think it would be inviting comparison and cries of "not as good as Ledger".

Also, where do you really go with it? Would they go dark enough to have the Joker attack Gordon's family like in the Killing Joke? Short of that, you would just have the Joker hurting more people and Batman stopping him. It would be a Dark Knight retread. The Joker laid it out in the Dark Knight: they won't kill each other. I think they should let the Joker go completely, maybe mention him.

I agree with how daunting it would be to replace Ledger, but the fact is he didn't exactly create the Joker (he may have perfected him, though!) He's been played by others in the past, and I guarantee you that he'll eventually be played by someone else again. In all fairness, I really don't want to see another Joker story right away, but I would like to see the character come back in this franchise at some point.

Tycho
07-24-2008, 09:00 AM
I want to see Liam Neeson return as Rhas'A Guhl (spelling) at some point. He was incredible in Batman Begins and a natural arch enemy for Batman since he trained him.

JediTricks wondered if the accountant thinking about blackmailing Bruce would turn out to be Riddler, since his name was Mr. Rees (or mysteries, the way it sounds when you say it). But Riddler's real name is Edward Nigma, or E.Nigma. But you never know what Nolan is going to do. I completely trust him on these films, but "The Dark Knight" may be impossible to compete with.

It blew Batman Begins out of the water, too. That's not always the case with sequels. But Dark Knight delivers!

I want to see the movie again - RIGHT NOW!

The worst thing about Comic Con this year is that it will take me away from the movie theater for a few days. Dark Knight is my favorite movie! It is so good!

"But there's only 1 opening on my team. So I know: we're going to have try-outs!"

vader121
07-24-2008, 09:01 AM
At thsi point I would love nothing more than to see another 5 Batman films if they can match Dark Knight but let's be realisitic. They will probably do one more and that's it. Do you really think Bale wants to keep doing Batman movies?

The next one has a lot of possibilities but I don't see Joker being in the film. He will probably be mentioned but not an actual character. I instead see them bringing back Two face and another villian or two. I think Cat Woman is a possibility or the Riddler.

Tycho
07-24-2008, 09:07 AM
They will probably do one more and that's it. Do you really think Bale wants to keep doing Batman movies?



Maybe Bale will be different from other actors and decide he'll "own" this franchise, and keep doing them. Or maybe they'll introduce Night Wing (is that right?) and a new guy (formerly Robin) will become Batman - so that Gotham's legend will always continue and criminals will be afraid.

But Bale is jumping on as John Connor as well. So he doesn't seem to be afraid of type-casting. And with American Psycho under his credits, he's proven he can play the bad guy, too.

Darth Jax
07-24-2008, 10:02 PM
Just returned from seeing it again. Should get one more showing under my belt this weekend, then i think it'll call it quits til it hits the $1.

When Bats wants a new suit after the dog attack, Lucius tells him that it'll withstand cats. A possible nod to the addition of Catwoman in the next film?

i think it was JT that mentioned the movie was too long. Watching it again with that point in mind, i agree . Joker's second capture by Batman should've been the end. Two Face's rampage should've been much more detailed and occupied most of the 3rd movie.

So that may contain a small amount of spoilage, but anybody reading this far into the thread has seen the movie by now.

El Chuxter
07-28-2008, 03:26 PM
This was a pretty good movie. :)

Villains in the sequel? I'd lean toward Bane done properly. Riddler is a putz.

General_Grievous
07-28-2008, 03:48 PM
I really want to see Catwoman in the third film.

Qui-Long Gone
07-29-2008, 03:18 PM
Saw it again in the drive-in followed by Hellboy 2....good movie night.

Questions:

So who are the five murdered? 2 cops (I only count one cop killed and one told they can live another day after they're smacked out cold), Mob (I only counted two). Who are the other 2 (my count is 3 dead)?

Is Two Face really dead or just Harvey the white knight (not the same after the Joker's hospital visit.....LOVED THAT SCENE)?

New Joker for 3? RIP Heath....excellent performance!!!! How could you continue without Joker? These films deserve a better class of criminal!

Catwoman reference/new suit?

Fox said if the machine was still here he'd quit but his name was the password to destroying it.....Fox returns?

New Batmobile? New Batcave?

**Anyone else notice that in Begins and Dark Knight there is a key scene involving a small boy and Batman saving him? I love this choice by Nolan as a nod to the boy-fan/young Bruce in all of us!!!!!:thumbsup:

preacher
07-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Riddler is a putz.

I don't disagree entirely. Carrey from Batman forever sucked hiney. Riddler from Legion of Doom is a douche. And the goof-ball from the Batman circa 60s was just lame. The Batman animated series Riddler was alright. Passable, but not great.

Riddler could be cool if his premeditative side were exploited. Make him something like the serial killer from Se7en or Saw.

When I saw Se7en the first time I was floored and immediately thought "THAT is how the riddler is supposed to be" have the crime be the puzzle not some stupid note that leads to another note and another and another. Okay maybe Se7en is a bit too dark even for the direction that Batman world is leaning. Can you imagine Kevin Spacey as the Riddler?

But if you think about it the Joker from The Dark Knight planned things out like the Riddler. There were even a couple boobie traps. The gutt bomb, and the River Boat trap comes to mind.

Qui-Long Gone
07-29-2008, 07:50 PM
The villians in Nolan's Batman serve the narrative and support the reality of the world. Scarecrow = fear, Ras = the genesis of Batman, Joker = the great yin to Bat's yang, and Two Face = corruption of the personal......

The Riddler doesn't strike me as important in this world....neither do Bane, Croc, Clayface, Man-Bat, Penguin (we have enough maffia), Mr. Freeze, Poisen Ivy....basically any character rooted in exaggeration....this worked great in Spiderman (see Dr. Oc and the first Goblin) and XMen (see 1 and 2, skip 3!).

These are the best superhero movies we've seen in a while because they are so rooted in authentic visions of society and the need for heroes.

Surely the Joker will be back (actor????) or possibly Two Face (maybe he's not dead yet?). Catwoman would work since she's a borderline vigilante.

Honestly, what villian will be a greater threat than Joker?

preacher
07-29-2008, 08:45 PM
The Riddler doesn't strike me as important in this world....neither do Bane, Croc, Clayface, Man-Bat, Penguin (we have enough maffia), Mr. Freeze, Poisen Ivy....basically any character rooted in exaggeration....this worked great in Spiderman (see Dr. Oc and the first Goblin) and XMen (see 1 and 2, skip 3!).

I agree with you. I guess my point was that we already had some dose of Riddler in that Joker set little traps. Even the Bank Robbery in the beginning had that kind of premeditation I was speaking to. If the Riddler was going to be adapted into this much more violent Gotham universe I would want to see the kid gloves come off. You are right most of the Batman villains just don't seem to align with the direction the maffia-rich storyline is going. Penguin's role could be downgraded to like an information broker. Ra's Al Gul's daughter Talia seeks revenge for her father's death? Scarface maybe?

Everyone is gunning for Batman this go around.

On a side note, I made the mistake of attempting to watch Batman and Robin on cable the other day. I got about ten minutes into it about the point where Freeze says you aren't taking me to the coolah. I quickly remembered why I hated that movie so much. Consequently I have a sour tast in my mouth for Freeze or Poison Ivy or Bane.

RooJay
07-30-2008, 02:10 AM
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that booby traps and the like have been part of Joker's M.O. since very early on in the character's development. What we see in Dark Knight isn't Joker aping the Riddler's shtick - just the Joker doing what he does. In a way you could say that, as originally envisioned, Riddler is a bit of a Joker rip-off. The only real difference is that Joker = jokes and Riddler = riddles.
Now that I think of it, there might be something to be said of Riddler being brought into the movies as a Joker copycat; something I had initially expected upon hearing rumors that Riddler might have a cameo in this movie.

Tycho
07-30-2008, 03:03 AM
I love the real-world take on Batman in Nolan's films. No one has super-natural powers. Everything is basically real or very close to possible. It's really a film for everyone whether they believe there's "life on Krypton" or not.

The Dark Knight so delivered! I want to see it again (for my 3rd time!)

JON9000
07-30-2008, 06:00 PM
I was prepared to be majorly let down, but this film was about as perfect a movie as you could make in the genre. I didn't care for Batman Begins, but I loved The Dark Knight. This movie on Blu-ray might be enough to get me off my behind and get a PS3!

JetsAndHeels
07-30-2008, 07:16 PM
It's really a film for everyone whether they believe there's "life on Krypton" or not.

What do you mean by that?

preacher
07-30-2008, 08:26 PM
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that booby traps and the like have been part of Joker's M.O. since very early on in the character's development. What we see in Dark Knight isn't Joker aping the Riddler's shtick - just the Joker doing what he does. In a way you could say that, as originally envisioned, Riddler is a bit of a Joker rip-off. The only real difference is that Joker = jokes and Riddler = riddles.
Now that I think of it, there might be something to be said of Riddler being brought into the movies as a Joker copycat; something I had initially expected upon hearing rumors that Riddler might have a cameo in this movie.

Yeah, in the darker incarnations definitely. Killing Joke was full of these sorts of things. I didn't mean to imply that the Joker aped Riddler. On the contrary, I don't think the Riddler is necessary since the Joker already concocted traps in TDK. Not to say I wouldn't be thrilled to see the Riddler portrayed like the Jigsaw killer in SAW or like I said earlier se7en.

I read somewhere that the Riddler was actually introduced into Batman lore because the Joker was too intense. This was right around the time that Batman 60s was born.

El Chuxter
07-30-2008, 08:28 PM
There is no life on Krypton, as there is no longer a Krypton.

RooJay
07-31-2008, 01:47 AM
Yeah, in the darker incarnations definitely. Killing Joke was full of these sorts of things. I didn't mean to imply that the Joker aped Riddler. On the contrary, I don't think the Riddler is necessary since the Joker already concocted traps in TDK. Not to say I wouldn't be thrilled to see the Riddler portrayed like the Jigsaw killer in SAW or like I said earlier se7en.

I read somewhere that the Riddler was actually introduced into Batman lore because the Joker was too intense. This was right around the time that Batman 60s was born.

Riddler is actually a Golden Age character, having been introduced in 1948. I suppose it's possible that he was intended to be Joker-Lite, though.

Tycho
07-31-2008, 04:25 AM
I mean that just about everything you see in The Dark Knight is totally possible and not dependant on anything supernatural or extraterrestrial.

Batman can therefore be enjoyed by everyone, including those skeptical that there is life on other planets, or whatever.

JediTricks
08-01-2008, 10:42 PM
One thing I missed in this movie about Batman was that intensity when Bats snared Flass in BB, that was the theatrics and power of the Bat and I don't think the new voice or behavior for the character in TDK worked as well.

I really appreciated that all the Joker lines seen in the original trailers, all the "catch phrase" lines, were different takes from the final version and were inferior ones at that.


Agreed with most of your points, especially the over the top damage to Two-Face.

Someone actually came up with a halfways decent explaination for how this actually isn't as horrible an ending as originally viewed. I agree, I myself felt it was easier to take the blame off Harvey by putting it on the Joker or one of his associates. But in some ways it also works. All throught the movie we see the criminal element of Gotham no longer fearing the bat. They know he has morals and there's a line he won't cross. They basically spit that in his face time and time again. Now everyone believes that The Batman has crossed this line. He's killed criminals. So while it does destroy the trust Batman has built with the Police and shake the belief that Gotham has in him, he's more effective now with the criminals because they believe he might kill them. In fact, that means in some ways The Joker won. He knows he destroyed Dent, but that wasn't his original target anyway. He's managed with his schemes to tarnish Batman. So in a ways there's yet another elaborate scheme that Joker managed.Whoa whoa? No longer fearing the bat throughout the movie? Did you see a DIFFERENT movie? It's abundantly clear that the only person who understands that Batman's code is his weakness is The Joker, everybody else comes off the streets when the Batsignal is flashed, and Joker makes a point of the gang leaders gathering only during the day because they're scared to face the Bat at night. And Batman killed only 1 criminal in their claim (and that's under the assumption anybody even asks about what happened to Marone and his driver who flipped over), yet the same claim says he killed 3 cops and a DA? Not seeing how that works.

And the Joker only wins with that bat-tarnishing because Bats and Gordon allow it to, they could easily have NOT let the Joker win there. No, I'm afraid I'm not following the logic on that claim, it seems like too far a stretch.



The "recent events" you referred to are Scarecrow being on the loose and the Narrows still being shut down, right? The one vignette looked like they'd just essentially chained up the Narrows for the time being, and there was still fear toxin lingering in the air in some places. So they haven't really started to take it back yet. And Scarecrow, well, he's lost in the tunnels, so he's still on the loose.Those are some of the events, but also the gang war with Maroni and the Russian changing gears which was very close to TDK's events, and the folks in the MCU also tie into TDK (the rookie that Dent mentions in TDK joins up in GK, so it's pretty close to that).


I don't know how much time lapse is between Batman Begins and TDK, but I was assuming it wasn't much. It seems strange that Gordon would tell Batman that the criminals are upping their game, hand him the Joker's card, and then they'd ignore the Joker altogether for a while. From what I've seen, this Joker doesn't seem like he'd be content laying low, either. Regarding the "upping their game," Joker would be the second "costumed" loony in Gotham. This Croc is a diseased fellow, and Deadshot wore (stupid-looking) armor and targeting devices. I'll just assume everything regarding that moronic flying ninja guy was totally exaggerated by the kids and he wasn't as powerful as the first sketch made him out to be.They mention in the movie that it's been a year since BB, and that the Joker has been on their radar the whole time but he's been slipping away as they had higher priorities.



Next villain should be Riddler, they kinda hint at that with "Mister Reese" = mysteries, the guy who works for Wayne then gets miffed, and he's got red hair just like Jim Carrey did... wait, how does that HELP???

I really think The Joker doesn't need to be in the movies again, there's nothing they could do with him that would top what our imaginations could do, even if Ledger hadn't died I think he'd say that character is put away for this series, and rightfully so.

Perhaps Ra's Al Ghul should make a comeback towards the end of the 3rd one, that's his M.O. after all. Then you can get into all that '70s Talia stuff which has great cinematic potential.

Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Man-bat, Clayface, they're all too surreal for this series. Penguin is too broad and unthreatening. Two-Face would have been perfect but they wasted that. Bane is kinda pushing the reality limits, and doing him right would require a lot of work on him which would further limit how interesting Batman can be.

Catwoman is an ok choice so long as they can keep FAR FAR away from the Batman Returns storyline in every single aspect. But she's more a menace than a villain.

Lady Shiva could come after Bats for what happened to Ra's, but that's only good for action scenes rather than story, and if she trains him before taking him down it'd just feel like a retread of BB.

Harley Quinn would feel like a retread of TDK.

I think maybe they may have to put the mob back at the center as a villain.



Going back to the Joker, it actually made me feel a little odd for laughing at the humorous bits with him, not because it was badly done, rather because what he was doing at the time defined villainy, but Ledger managed to pull of the sadistic humor so well.I didn't find it self-conscious when laughing the first time, but the second time it did take me offguard. I laughed the first time seeing the fire truck on fire, that had a Joker sensibility to it.


It was nice to see that they didn't immediately go into use of the new Batsuit, however I think he could have gone slightly longer in the Begins-style suit, it just seemed odd that Fox was able to make it so quickly and with so many new features, granted money was nearly no object, but still probably should have taken slightly longer. The destruction of the Tumbler was saddening, although it wasn't completely destroyed, and there should be another based on lines from Begins.The suit seemed kinda like off-the-shelf components really, so it didn't phase me too much (I didn't understand the point of making it weaker armor though, and that doesn't even get used in the plot anyway). The Tumbler's destruction did bother me immensely, I thought it was unnecessary in some ways, but if we accept that the Joker has an RPG so easily, then I guess Batman has to sacrifice to stop it (though it's a bad strategy to sacrifice that much when they've shown they can reload afterwards... and why didn't they?). There's nothing left of the car IMO, the Batpod is basically nothing, just an emergency drive motor and some cannons and the front wheels, the Tumbler was about the armor and the stealth and the rockets and the angled spoilers and wings.


It implies that there is a second Tumbler ready to go, so hopefully it will see a return. I disagree, the quote suggests that the CONCEPT was to use 2 of them, but that they never got past the prototype stage since they couldn't get the bridge aspect to work. "This baby works just fine" suggests a singular version rather than "these babies work just fine".


and even included another nod to the first Burton Batman film as Joker and Batman play chickenHonestly, I took that more as a character point, The Joker wants to test Batman's limits, to break him of his code and go beyond, even if it means costing him his life - he WANTS to be hit. I don't think that's at all the same as what Burton did and I don't think they were intentionally paying homage to it (maybe a little).


The only thing I didn't really like was the launching of the Batpod, I would've rather seen bits of the Tumbler blow apart in order for it to be able to escape, much like a figher jet's canopy being blown off by mini-explosives, with the way it was done it had too much of a *poof* sort of appearance.Totally agree, they set it up to blast out and then it just emerged instead.


The only other thing that bugged me regarding the Batpod was the scene with Batman driving into a wall, and doing a 180. I could believe the very round tire being able to go up the wall, but the cannons should have slammed into the wall first, and the 180 turn wreaked of weakly done CGI.That one had a big audience reaction. It seemed like the drive motors was strong enough and they had the speed, and the guns already showed they are mobile enough to rotate out of the way on their own. I'm not sure that was CGI, it could have been a practical or a wire stunt.



Villain in the sequel - c'mon?! Harvey might be dead, but I'm almost certain Two-Face is alive and well, having been locked quietly away in Arkham...Wow, um, you're saying Half-Face can breathe independently of Harvey and was hiding it? Not buying that.



I agree with how daunting it would be to replace Ledger, but the fact is he didn't exactly create the Joker (he may have perfected him, though!) He's been played by others in the past, and I guarantee you that he'll eventually be played by someone else again. In all fairness, I really don't want to see another Joker story right away, but I would like to see the character come back in this franchise at some point.He created THIS Joker though, he created the mindset by staying in a hotel room for a month, reading the comics, and feeling out how the character would behave and sound (he had a hard time figuring out the voice). This Joker is half writers and half actor, and if you take that out of the equation you're left with half a Joker.



i think it was JT that mentioned the movie was too long. Watching it again with that point in mind, i agree . Joker's second capture by Batman should've been the end. Two Face's rampage should've been much more detailed and occupied most of the 3rd movie.I didn't feel that the film was too long, I just didn't think the last 5 minutes were right and Two-Face should have been the next movie. And I thought the first 20 minutes or so didn't quite work. But I could have sat through 3 hours of this film if it had been done right in those spots.


So who are the five murdered? 2 cops (I only count one cop killed and one told they can live another day after they're smacked out cold), Mob (I only counted two). Who are the other 2 (my count is 3 dead)?There are 4 dead: Two-Face kills the cop that took him, Maroni and his driver, and then Harvey Dent is dead as well. My only guess is either Harvey killed another cop we didn't see, or they're blaming Rachel's death on Bats too but that seems way unlikely.


Riddler is actually a Golden Age character, having been introduced in 1948. I suppose it's possible that he was intended to be Joker-Lite, though.The Joker was first in 1940, and the Riddler was just the Joker without laughter and less vicious because the Comics Code was right around the corner.

DarkArtist
08-02-2008, 09:38 AM
finally saw TDK last nigth. great flick felt a little long since the AC busted in the theater and it felt like 100 degrees. I thought Ledger did an amazing job as the Joker, was upset that Two-Face was killed off (the character had such potential) the bat pod was awesome, but my question is this....in the beginning of the movie is that the real Scarecrow or an imposter ? i mean it's not the same actor and since there were fake Batmen in the scene does that mean that the scarecrow was fake as well ?

Bel-Cam Jos
08-02-2008, 10:33 AM
finally saw TDK last nigth. great flick felt a little long since the AC busted in the theater and it felt like 100 degrees. ... but my question is this....in the beginning of the movie is that the real Scarecrow or an imposter ? i mean it's not the same actor and since there were fake Batmen in the scene does that mean that the scarecrow was fake as well ?Might have heightened your sense of fear and being uncomfortable, like a Batman criminal or cop in the film. :sense-o-vision:

I thought it was the same guy, since he's in the jail scenes later (I think).

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-02-2008, 10:56 AM
Might have heightened your sense of fear and being uncomfortable, like a Batman criminal or cop in the film. :sense-o-vision:

I thought it was the same guy, since he's in the jail scenes later (I think).

It's the same actor, Cillian Murphy, as you see him later sitting with the rest of the goons without his mask when Batman leaves the scene. :thumbsup:

Darth Jax
08-02-2008, 01:50 PM
Just got back from my 3rd screening.

To all those trying to count the 5 victims that Batman takes responsibility for, you need to go back and recount victims. Joker is the first to mention them, long before Gordon. He tells Batman that his lack of unveiling himself has accounted for 5 deaths so far while in the holding cell at MCU. So the 5 victims must be (from my count): the commissioner, judge, havery & dent & who??? the fake batman, the cop joker shoots from the truck, gambol i'm not sure who the 5th person would be.

JediTricks
08-03-2008, 04:25 AM
This is gonna become the next "too many replicants" thing, ain't it?

joshephe
08-03-2008, 04:20 PM
saw it last night it was a good movie. Does anyone know if there is something at the end of the credits at all?

2-1B
08-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Nothing at the end, we stayed all the way through just in case and saw nothing.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-03-2008, 06:53 PM
saw it last night it was a good movie. Does anyone know if there is something at the end of the credits at all?That big giant corporate logo of Warner Bros. is something, right? :p

I'm a stay-for-the-credits all the time guy, even when there's doubtful to be anythign extra; frustrates some of the movie goers who join me. It makes the "rush" out so much easier, you get to talk about the film you just saw (often in more comfortable seats than my car has), laugh at funny-sounding credited creator names, and basically relax for a little bit.

Darth Jax
08-03-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm a stay-for-the-credits all the time guy, even when there's doubtful to be anythign extra; frustrates some of the movie goers who join me. It makes the "rush" out so much easier, you get to talk about the film you just saw (often in more comfortable seats than my car has), laugh at funny-sounding credited creator names, and basically relax for a little bit.

plus there ain't a line by that time. particularly after a 2.5 hour movie one needs some relief.

RooJay
08-05-2008, 04:15 AM
Next villain should be Riddler, they kinda hint at that with "Mister Reese" = mysteries, the guy who works for Wayne then gets miffed, and he's got red hair just like Jim Carrey did... wait, how does that HELP???

From where I'm sitting, there is absolutely nothing to imply that this guy has anything to do with the Riddler; I think some folks are just reading way too much into this. For the record, the Riddler has brown hair in the comics (and the cartoons, for that matter.) so I'm not sure how that even figures.


I really think The Joker doesn't need to be in the movies again, there's nothing they could do with him that would top what our imaginations could do, even if Ledger hadn't died I think he'd say that character is put away for this series, and rightfully so.

Neither do I actually. Especially if all we get is a trilogy (why does Hollywood seem to be so in love with the trilogy? Whatever happened to the concept of the franchise? You know, like James Bond, or Star Trek?) However, if we do end up getting more than three films, I for one whole-heartedly believe that the Joker is far to important to Batman to have Ledger's death stand in the way of the story.


I think maybe they may have to put the mob back at the center as a villain.

YaaaAAAAAnnn!


Wow, um, you're saying Half-Face can breathe independently of Harvey and was hiding it? Not buying that.

Sure, I'm thinking the surgically removed Harvey and left only the bad part! Come one, you seriously don't think that's what I meant? I was clearly speaking metaphorically there.


The Joker was first in 1940, and the Riddler was just the Joker without laughter and less vicious because the Comics Code was right around the corner.

Now it sounds like you're confused. That's right there is pretty much in line with what I said.

Tycho
08-10-2008, 05:50 AM
I took Slicker to see The Dark Knight today and he loved it.

This was my 3rd time seeing the show.

We both left the movie theater wanting to watch this film AGAIN!

It's THAT good!

Blue2th
08-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Saw The Dark Knight for the first time yesterday.

This is the best movie I've seen so far this year.

CaptainSolo1138
08-10-2008, 11:35 AM
I took Slicker to see The Dark Knight today and he loved it.
Did he pull the "hole-in-the-bottom-of-the-popcorn-tub" trick on you? He always gets me with that one.

Tycho
08-10-2008, 12:11 PM
Did he pull the "hole-in-the-bottom-of-the-popcorn-tub" trick on you? He always gets me with that one.

No. We didn't order any concessions anyway - we barely made it into the last show - and they'd already started the previews when we took our seats.

Funny. I was thinking about that movie when I woke up this morning. It is so good!

2-1B
08-10-2008, 07:04 PM
I woke up this morning. It is so good!

I agree, Slicker's popcorn is the best. :thumbsup:

DarthQuack
08-10-2008, 07:17 PM
I agree, Slicker's popcorn is the best. :thumbsup:

Does it come with his butter flavoring as well? :)

preacher
08-10-2008, 08:27 PM
No. We didn't order any concessions anyway - we barely made it into the last show - and they'd already started the previews when we took our seats.

Funny. I was thinking about that movie when I woke up this morning. It is so good!

Last time you were so excited was last Summer when Transformers was released. I'm curious which you prefer now, Transformers or Dark Knight?

Rocketboy
08-10-2008, 10:46 PM
Does it come with his butter flavoring as well? :)Love butter.

TeeEye7
08-10-2008, 11:15 PM
Love butter.

Topped with peaches.

Tycho
08-11-2008, 03:47 AM
Last time you were so excited was last Summer when Transformers was released. I'm curious which you prefer now, Transformers or Dark Knight?

The Dark Knight. It's probably even better than the majority of the Star Wars films, and I'm not especially a Batman fan. I just love this movie.

It's so much action, it never has a slow moment. AND the entire film has PLOT and STORY behind it, with excellent ACTING by the performers.

Aaron Eckhart
Morgan Freeman
Michael Caines
Gary Oldman

they all are only outshined by Heath Ledger, but the other 4 are not to be forgotten! They had incredibly great moments as well!

Christian Bale was actually the most replaceable of the main cast (besides Maggie Gyllenhal - however you spell her name). But Bale was great - just performing as the straight-man next to the other CHARACTERS!

But The Dark Knight just doesn't stop. Slicker wants to see it again this week. If I get a chance to see it with him, I might join him for that - though we're more likely to see Clone Wars if we go to another show together. But he has a chance to see new movies for free on his base, and he'll very likely see The Dark Knight again out there.

Transformers was an origin-film, and "establishing film," though Batman Begins and Spider-Man both did better jobs at that, too. I praised Michael Bay's film so much because I always wanted to have it be made. Now Transformers 2 might be the film that makes that franchise if they really focus on Optimus Prime as the main character, the way it is supposed to be. Allegedly, that's what's happening. But we'll see. Remember, "The Dark Knight" is Batman 2 - the second film of that saga as well though.

Qui-Long Gone
08-11-2008, 03:39 PM
No matter what Bay does with Trans. 2, it will never be as good as what Nolan is doing with Batman.....Nolan uses action to support the character, Bay uses action to replace character. Don't get me wrong. If you have $8 to spend on mindless fun, Bay's as good a choice as any.....but if you'd like more bang for your buck, Batman is the true summer winner....

Tycho
08-12-2008, 12:53 AM
I went out late for desert with a lady friend last night (after Sea World) and there, in the restaurant, almost for no apparent reason, sat The Joker!

Actually, this guy and his girlfriend were at SeaWorld that day as well. So they do face-painting for the kids there. Little girls usually get butterflies and flowers. This guy asked them to make him into The Joker. So there he was just sitting at a restaurant last night.

Today's newspaper had a picture of Batman and Joker from The Dark Knight and the news reported that for the 4th week in a row, The Dark Knight was the No.1 movie! It's broken all 4-week records really, and quite deservingly so.
In the long term, I guess it still needs to beat Shrek and Titanic, but that doesn't look like it's going to be a problem.

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain!"

Great line, btw!

Rocketboy
08-12-2008, 06:32 AM
#3 All-time Domestic (behind Titanic and Star Wars) (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm)

#49 All-time Domestic (adjusted for inflation) (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm)

#24 All-time Worldwide (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/)

Tycho
08-12-2008, 10:26 AM
Yup. But it's not over yet.

"The (K)night is darkest just before the dawn."

Darth Jax
08-12-2008, 08:23 PM
i still plan on seeing it once more, haven't experienced the imax version yet.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-13-2008, 04:37 PM
#3 All-time Domestic (behind Titanic and Star Wars) (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm)

#49 All-time Domestic (adjusted for inflation) (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm)

#24 All-time Worldwide (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/)
God damn! I knew it was doing well, but not THAT well!

2-1B
08-13-2008, 04:45 PM
Meh, inflation has that effect.

Qui-Long Gone
08-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Is inflation really that big of a factor? I've never fully bought that argument.....:ermm:

Tycho
08-14-2008, 02:51 PM
Back in the day I bought my movie tickets for $5 bucks - and matinees for $3.75 I think.

Slicker
08-14-2008, 04:40 PM
Is inflation really that big of a factor? I've never fully bought that argument.....:ermm:
It definitely is a big factor. I think some of the tickets for "Gone with the Wind" were about $5 at that time and that comes out to around $50 now so yeah, it's a big factor.

Rocketboy
08-14-2008, 05:01 PM
In 1977 the average price of a movie ticket in the United States was about $2.25, so Star Wars' adjusted domestic gross would be doubled (at minimum) or tripled or more.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-15-2008, 12:29 PM
a poster on SHH created this AMAZING fan poster for the next film. I had to share as it is just freakin' great. :thumbsup:

Rocketboy
08-16-2008, 03:02 PM
August 16, 2008 - The day Star Wars dropped to #3 all-time.

As of Friday, August 15, Star Wars sits at $460,998,007 and The Dark Knight has $459,703,000.

A mere $1,295,007 separates the two. Batman hauled in another $5 million on Friday which means today should pull in a relatively similar amount, easily surpassing Star Wars as #2 all-time.

And The Dark Knight is still going pretty strong...but question remains: How close will it come to Titanic's $600.78 Million? Does Batman have another $140 Million left in it?

Qui-Long Gone
08-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Probably another $50 million left in it, not $100....

There's no greater power than teen girls in love with Leo!

JediTricks
08-17-2008, 02:38 AM
I honestly feel like this movie now HAS to dethrone Titanic, because if you're going to dethrone Star Wars you better take down the less-deserving movie that beat it.

Thankfully, Star Wars will likely never be dethroned as the all-time #2 ticket-selling film, that's what those "adjusted" box office numbers mean - SW:ANH sold 178 million tickets. And how awesome is it that ESB is #12 on that list? Never noticed that Ep 2 is the lowest seller though, that Ep 3 outsold it.

JediTricks
08-17-2008, 02:38 AM
I honestly feel like this movie now HAS to dethrone Titanic, because if you're going to dethrone Star Wars you better take down the less-deserving movie that beat it.

Thankfully, Star Wars will likely never be dethroned as the all-time #2 ticket-selling film, that's what those "adjusted" box office numbers mean - SW:ANH sold 178 million tickets. And how awesome is it that ESB is #12 on that list? Never noticed that Ep 2 is the lowest seller though, that Ep 3 outsold it.

DarthQuack
08-17-2008, 03:27 AM
Thanks for telling us twice to make sure we get the point JT :lipsrsealed:

Qui-Long Gone
08-18-2008, 01:38 PM
I think a better question will be how much pressure the next Batman film will have to score big $$$ and critical reception.....is there enough gas in this tank to take these films to the next level? Or will the thrid installment be another Shrek/Spiderman/Pirates....crappy stories spinning on worn-out tires...:rolleyes:

JediTricks
08-19-2008, 09:38 PM
Thanks for telling us twice to make sure we get the point JT :lipsrsealed:
For some reason, when it gets later, the system gets a little laggy and does weird stuff like that. I was gonna delete it, but now it'd look stupid. :p Anyway, friggin' thing ran out of gas finally as we all knew it would. It had a good run, but honestly, I think too many people can just download it and say they saw it without paying, it makes beating Titanic that much more difficult.

Tycho
08-20-2008, 12:43 AM
I don't want to download it. Well, except to watch it at home until I can buy an official DVD. But in the meantime, I can see it on a far bigger screen with a far better sound system than I can privately buy so long as I still go see it in the movie theater!

Slicker
08-25-2008, 06:17 AM
I thought this was pretty funny...

Qui-Long Gone
08-25-2008, 11:09 AM
........sigh..........:whip:

Tycho
08-26-2008, 03:11 AM
Haha Slicker. Did you get to see the movie a SECOND time yet?

I'm actually itching to see it for my 4th time, I think. I don't remember when the last time a movie that good came along. Revenge of the Sith? The Dark Knight may very well beat it (for its ACTING at the very least!).

"You suspect that one of the most powerful and wealthy men in the world is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating the hell out of the mob bosses in the criminal underground, and you want to blackmail this person? Uh-huh. Well, good luck."

preacher
09-01-2008, 06:44 PM
TDK still has life in it! It passed the 500M mark over the weekend and if my experience over the weekend is a representative of TDK showings I can see why. I saw it for the second time with my brother (his 1st time seeing it) and the theater we saw it at was packed! I had not expected this show to have that much longevity. We had to sit in the very front. Even so, it was a great experience even the second time around. I was able to appreciate Heath Ledgers performance even more. The Joker's dialogue is very entertaining. You can tell everyone had a great time with this character.

RooJay
09-03-2008, 01:28 AM
I hate to have to disagree with general sentiment, but upon subsequent viewings I've found Christian Bale's performance to stand out even better. The Joker's still great, but after you've seen it a few times he gets even less overpowering. I really think that the entire cast in general (with one glaring exception) just did a really astounding job on this movie!

Darth Jax
09-03-2008, 07:49 AM
I hate to have to disagree with general sentiment, but upon subsequent viewings I've found Christian Bale's performance to stand out even better. The Joker's still great, but after you've seen it a few times he gets even less overpowering. I really think that the entire cast in general (with one glaring exception) just did a really astounding job on this movie!

So you didn't like Maggie G. either.

RooJay
09-03-2008, 08:20 AM
So you didn't like Maggie G. either.

Well...you know...I'm not trying to name names or anything, but...you know...someone was just a bit out of place. It's not that it wasn't a decent performance or anything...just that...it could have been, and probably should have been, a...prettier performance the way the part was written. If you get my meaning.

Rocketboy
09-03-2008, 10:30 PM
He's dead.


Q: Is Harvey Dent alive?
Aaron Eckhart: No. He is dead as a door nail.

Q: So he's not coming back?
Eckhart: He ain't coming back baby!

Q: I was hoping he would.
Eckhart: No. I asked Chris [Nolan] that question and he goes, "You're dead" before I could even get the question out of my mouth. "Hey Chris, am I?" "You're dead!" Alright, cool. http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=48470

El Chuxter
09-04-2008, 12:04 AM
But he only says Harvey is dead, not Two-Face.

RooJay
09-04-2008, 12:41 AM
But he only says Harvey is dead, not Two-Face.

Yeah, but don't you know - that would require them to surgically remove his dead half leaving only 'Half-Face'? Come on man - think!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-04-2008, 12:47 AM
When he said "you're dead," I assume that means every character that Aaron Eckhart played in the movie. ;) :D

RooJay
09-04-2008, 01:08 AM
Anyone else thinking it'd be pretty cool to see a spin-off Gotham Central movie? I think it'd be great! Not sure if Nolan would eve be up to direct something like that, but there are plenty of directors out there who could pull it off with Nolan's films as a jumping off point. Gary Oldman's Gordon is great, and he really seems to strike a chord with the audience - there always seems to be a big cheer in the audience when he shows up to arrest the Joker! Throw in Rene Montoya, Harvey Bullock, Crispus Allen, Ramon Bach and the rest, keep Batman references to a minimum if references are needed at all, and I'm not sure they are as long as there's plenty of indication that this is Batman's Gotham we're seeing. Just a good, well acted, cleverly written police story. I know I'd be there!

Slicker
09-04-2008, 03:01 AM
Haha Slicker. Did you get to see the movie a SECOND time yet?
Unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance to see this again. I'm hoping that it's still in theaters when we get back to Japan because I'd definitely love to see it again.

Rocketboy
09-04-2008, 07:31 AM
Unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance to see this again. I'm hoping that it's still in theaters when we get back to Japan because I'd definitely love to see it again.Good luck. By the sounds of it TDK isn't doing all that amazing in Japan.

JediTricks
09-04-2008, 04:30 PM
But he only says Harvey is dead, not Two-Face.You mean the character in the movie nicknamed "Harvey Two-Face"? It's the same guy, suggesting that Two-Face could even survive without Harvey is ludicrous and robs the character of his very essence. Just thinking about a whole movie where the character played into the duality that was the shining white knight's mind cracking and giving in to the evil his two-faced persona had hid, taking his well-crafted strategic personality and breaking it in half so he would be willing to leave lives in the hands of chance, that would have made for its own interesting 2 hour + film, and it's tragic we won't be getting it.

El Chuxter
09-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Since no one seems to have "gotten" it, I was joking about the (previously) ongoing argument whether he was dead or not.

General_Grievous
09-04-2008, 05:24 PM
I hate to have to disagree with general sentiment, but upon subsequent viewings I've found Christian Bale's performance to stand out even better. The Joker's still great, but after you've seen it a few times he gets even less overpowering. I really think that the entire cast in general (with one glaring exception) just did a really astounding job on this movie!
I respectfully disagree. Each time I've watched the movie, The Joker's still as enthralling as ever. I think Bale's performance was overshadowed by not only Ledger but also by Gary Oldman and Aaron Eckhart. Granted, there were a few times where Bale owned the scene, like the scene where Bruce was grieving in his apartment and Batman's final speech ("I'm not a hero"). Bale still did an outstanding job, but he certainly was given a lot more time to shine in "Batman Begins".

RooJay
09-05-2008, 01:06 AM
I think someone here is missing the point a bit regarding Harvey vs. Two-Face - personally, I've never meant that Harvey would ever be even metaphorically dead as a persona. What I mean when I say that I hope Harvey being dead doesn't keep them from using Two-Face again is that it would depend on Harvey being officially dead; as in publicly dead in the sense that he would be secretly locked away in Arkham while the general populace of Gotham believes him to be deceased to keep them from finding out what he's become.
Even if the character being officially, clinically dead is Nolan's bottom line at the moment, I could easily see him doing this anyway.

Qui-Long Gone
09-08-2008, 03:29 PM
So when will we move these discussion to the 3rd Batman film thread?



I hope the Joker is back (no one will top Heath, but that shouldn't stop the Joker's return....and give respect to Nolan not taking the cheep and easy, "well we killed off the Joker because everyone knew Heath was dead.").

*What are these rumors about Nolan not directing again and Cher as catwoman and Jack Sparrow as the Riddler? I think Depp would be a compelling Joker.....

*I don't mind Dent being dead. It was a fully-drawn character with a great dramatic arc from white knight into sympathetic villian (far better tragedy than a guy turned into sand or a Dr. with 4 long arms because his love died, blah blah)....let Harvey RIP.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-08-2008, 05:13 PM
So when will we move these discussion to the 3rd Batman film thread?

I hope the Joker is back (no one will top Heath, but that shouldn't stop the Joker's return....and give respect to Nolan not taking the cheep and easy, "well we killed off the Joker because everyone knew Heath was dead.").

*What are these rumors about Nolan not directing again and Cher as catwoman and Jack Sparrow as the Riddler? I think Depp would be a compelling Joker.....

*I don't mind Dent being dead. It was a fully-drawn character with a great dramatic arc from white knight into sympathetic villian (far better tragedy than a guy turned into sand or a Dr. with 4 long arms because his love died, blah blah)....let Harvey RIP.

I plan to start up a thread once Nolan confirms that a third film is going to happen. Will it happen? Probably, but I just want to make sure Nolan is behind it.

- The rumor about Cher and Depp is just rumor, a funny one at that. Nolan hasn't said anything about the next film or where he's going to with it. I'd love to see Depp as Riddler though and i'm curious to see where they could go with it. I could actually see Catwoman showing up (despite Nolan saying it probably won't happen). Maybe she shows up after Batman disappears and begins handing out her own vigilante justice and Batman shows up to take her on or something. I also spotted this article published/written today where Michael Caine states that Depp is the Riddler and Philip Seymour Hoffman is Penguin. Read it and chuckle: http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Michael-Caine-Claims-Riddler-And-Penguin-Are-In-For-Batman-3-10101.html


- I could see the Joker coming back, but to a smaller extent, maybe something with him in Arkham manipulating something behind the scenes. I THINK I read that they have lots of unused footage of Heath they could use to an extent, which I think would be a nice cameo for Ledger. Then again, I could easily see Depp taking over for the Joker or something along those lines.

I think within the next few months we'll hear something, but like somebody else on teh net said, WB will have the brains not to pressure Nolan into using villains that he doesn't want to use as nobody wants another Spidey 3.

Rocketboy
09-08-2008, 08:23 PM
- I could see the Joker coming back, but to a smaller extent, maybe something with him in Arkham manipulating something behind the scenes.This is pretty much what I'm hoping for, especially if he toys the mind of a certain Dr. Quinzel.

Qui-Long Gone
09-09-2008, 03:45 PM
I plan to start up a thread once Nolan confirms that a third film is going to happen. Will it happen? Probably, but I just want to make sure Nolan is behind it.

- I could see the Joker coming back, but to a smaller extent, maybe something with him in Arkham manipulating something behind the scenes. I THINK I read that they have lots of unused footage of Heath they could use to an extent, which I think would be a nice cameo for Ledger. Then again, I could easily see Depp taking over for the Joker or something along those lines.



Will you thread if Nolan isn't behind it?

I like the idea of Joker as small but important character, but I doubt their would be enough footage of Heath to make a film.....I say let Heath RIP, give him an Oscar, and give the Joker to another brave actor (not a better actor, because that won't happen, but one just as brave).

I do like that Nolan grounds the villians in the "real," but flexes with their mystery (example, Ra's) and theatricality.

***side note: I say nominate Heath and Gary for Best Supporting Actor....Oldman is way underrated, especially in the Dark Knight....which I'm going to see again tonight!! :thumbsup:

2-1B
09-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Will you thread if Nolan isn't behind it?


No, discussion will not be allowed unless Nolan is involved.

Mvader91
09-09-2008, 04:58 PM
Will you thread if Nolan isn't behind it?

I like the idea of Joker as small but important character, but I doubt their would be enough footage of Heath to make a film.....I say let Heath RIP, give him an Oscar, and give the Joker to another brave actor (not a better actor, because that won't happen, but one just as brave).

I do like that Nolan grounds the villians in the "real," but flexes with their mystery (example, Ra's) and theatricality.

***side note: I say nominate Heath and Gary for Best Supporting Actor....Oldman is way underrated, especially in the Dark Knight....which I'm going to see again tonight!! :thumbsup:My understanding is that Depp will play the Riddler. The fat guy with the cell phone in his gut, the scar was in the shape of a question mark. I mean it seemed alot of Joker's plan's had a puzzle tied into them? That was just speculation of course.

Rocketboy
09-09-2008, 09:39 PM
My understanding is that Depp will play the Riddler. 100% rumor.
As is Phillip Seymor Hoffman as Penguin.
Or Cher/Angelina Jolie as Catwoman.

There is no script, thus no casting. And Christopher Nolan will first be taking a break then reportedly directing another movie before moving forward to Batman 3.

Batman 3 hasn't even officially been announced by Warner Bros. (even though it is a given there will be one).

El Chuxter
09-09-2008, 10:50 PM
Jeffrey Tambor as a very different take on Bane.

Qui-Long Gone
09-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Jeffrey Tambor as a very different take on Bane.

Or as the Riddler?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-10-2008, 11:39 AM
Jeffrey Tambor as a very different take on Bane.
I heard he's pretty busy right now, though.

El Chuxter
09-10-2008, 12:48 PM
I heard he's pretty busy right now, though.

Yeah....

With YOUR MOM!!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-10-2008, 05:15 PM
IGN has a nice article about what they would like to see in a third film: http://movies.ign.com/articles/908/908838p1.html

Some really interesting ideas in there. :thumbsup:

Devo
09-10-2008, 06:19 PM
If the Joker was to appear in a third film would you guys prefer if whatever actor took it on copied Ledgers performance as closely as possible or did their own take?

Personally I say just copy Heath seen as its likely to be a tiny role anyway, hardly much point in trying to make something new of it. Plus in the interests of consistency...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-10-2008, 11:58 PM
Yeah....

With YOUR MOM!!

Burn you got me gud haha lol

Too bad now he's over with YOUR MOM!!

*swish*


If the Joker was to appear in a third film would you guys prefer if whatever actor took it on copied Ledgers performance as closely as possible or did their own take?

Personally I say just copy Heath seen as its likely to be a tiny role anyway, hardly much point in trying to make something new of it. Plus in the interests of consistency...
Unfortunately, since we can't have Heath come back, I don't think the Joker should be in it at all. If they have to reference him, they should pass by his cell in Arkham or something and just have the sound of his laugh. Or they could just not go to Arkham, say he's still in there, and be done with it.

Qui-Long Gone
09-25-2008, 03:52 PM
Did anyone else watch Batman Gotham Knight? I just watched it?

2nd question: was anyone else disapointed?

We should pause and give thanks for the 90s animated masterpiece.....

Rocketboy
09-25-2008, 09:38 PM
Did anyone else watch Batman Gotham Knight?Yes.


2nd question: was anyone else disapointed?Yes.

Kevin Conroy should only be the TAS Batman. It seemed wrong with a different style Batman. Killer Croc was a huge letdown - he was there like a minute and a half.

Beast
09-26-2008, 06:13 PM
DVD Active has news about the DVD and Blu-Ray release.

The Batpod Set is pretty cool. But I think I'll just get the regular Blu-Ray release.

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-dark-knight.html

RooJay
09-27-2008, 12:55 AM
Aww! The Batpod comes with the Blu-Ray?!!! No Batpod for the DVD?!!!

Curse you technological advancement!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Rocketboy
09-27-2008, 06:27 AM
No regular DVD announcement yet.

Beast
09-27-2008, 10:24 AM
No regular DVD announcement yet.
Uhhh, did you even check the link?

Title: The Dark Knight
Starring: Christian Bale
Released: 9th December 2008
SRP: $34.99 (2-Disc DVD)

Further Details:
Warner Home Video has announced 1-disc ($28.98), 2-disc ($34.99) and Blu-ray ($35.99) releases of The Dark Knight for the 9th December. The extras have yet to be revealed for the DVD releases, although the Blu-ray release will include a Gotham Uncovered documentary, featurettes (Batman Tech: The Incredible Gadgets and Tools, Batman Unmasked: The Psychology of The Dark Knight), 6 episodes of Gotham Cable's Premier News Program, galleries (The Joker Cards, Concept Art, Poster Art, Production Stills), trailers and TV spots. A limited edition set with Batpod will also be available. Artwork is attached:

Rocketboy
09-27-2008, 01:08 PM
Uhhh, did you even check the link?Uhhh, yes I did and when I posted that it was all Blu Ray info and pics.

JediTricks
10-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Honestly, that batpod packaging sucks, the disc is sequestered in a rather large area, can't put it in a bookshelf the way the recent Iron Man Target SE DVD case is. Don't get me wrong, it is kinda nifty, but it's not reasonable.

I'll probably buy this blu-ray, I put my 32" Sony WEGA into widescreen mode recently on a regular DVD (Men in Black) and it showed off every flawed artifact available, so no more of that. I bought Iron Man as Blu-Ray, my mom will be buying the regular DVD so I can compare that I suppose.

Now if I could only find the time to actually watch these things. :p


Back to TDK, I am not really feeling the listing of extras there, it appears to be pretty light.

RooJay
10-04-2008, 01:05 AM
"Reasonable" = Not sucky. Makes perfect sense to me.

JT, my friend, I'm really beginning to believe that you are the kind of person who really is rather underwhelmed that the stars twinkle, that the sky is blue, that summer ain't all it's cracked up to be, and that you really get annoyed at having to breathe this crappy air junk that's all around us.
I'm thinking it's time to squeeze some of those lemons piled all around you and make some nice, refreshing lemonade!:yes::p

No offense - all in fun! Nothin' but love, man!

JediTricks
10-08-2008, 02:47 AM
Easily the lamest double-negative ever.

Look, sorry you don't like that I think it's a crappy DVD case. Boo hoo. Go out and get your own opinion. I'll stick with stuff that doesn't take up a ton of space on my shelf and actually fits in it, like the Target Iron Man SE DVD. And the Batpod sucks, but I didn't even mention that before. So there, nyeah! :p

Qui-Long Gone
10-08-2008, 08:15 AM
And the Batpod sucks :p

Are you kidding, the Batpod is the shizzel! :grin:

I thought it would be cool if the DVD came with a Two-Face coin! Those are cheep, just look at the coins SW did recently.

JediTricks
10-09-2008, 03:31 AM
Are you kidding, the Batpod is the shizzel! :grin:Minus that last "the" maybe. ;) Yeah, I thought the Batpod sucked, and I think that one the DVD comes with looks like it isn't even a good version of it.


I thought it would be cool if the DVD came with a Two-Face coin! Those are cheep, just look at the coins SW did recently.That's a better idea, but I'd really hope they'd do it in a much higher quality than the SW coins, which are shot in very low-quality materials (that's why they're so lightweight, it keeps the tooling to make them from being of higher tolerances and more hardened).

Qui-Long Gone
10-09-2008, 01:47 PM
You know JT, you, Chewie, Lucas, and that Ewok would look smashing on the Batpod! :lipsrsealed:

JediTricks
10-13-2008, 02:57 AM
Batman wasn't even allowed to drive it, they had to get a stunt double. :p

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-04-2008, 01:09 PM
Yeah, it looks like i'll be going to circuit city for their exclusive packaging of the two disc set. :thumbsup:

DarkArtist
12-04-2008, 01:13 PM
Yeah, it looks like i'll be going to circuit city for their exclusive packaging of the two disc set. :thumbsup:

the box art looks awesome. i hope i get this for christmas. it's one of the DVD's on the list (would really love the exclusive Blue Ray version with the Batpod but without the player the disc is useless to me and I want to watch the DVD Christmas night

Tycho
12-04-2008, 08:29 PM
This is my favorite movie!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-09-2008, 09:05 AM
alright, the WHY SO SERIOUS cover art is NOT the actual cover art. It's basically a cardboard sleeve that houses the DVD and the exclusive journal thing.

The actual cover art is of the Joker and why not as cool as WHY SO SERIOUS, it still trumps the regular two disc art. :thumbsup:

DarkArtist
12-09-2008, 01:09 PM
Walmart has an exclusive Harvey Dent / Two Face coin with there copy of the Dark Knight. my only gripe with the DVD so far is the lack of deleted scenes etc. i love seeing deleted / alternative scenes. still want the movie on DVD as this was one of the best Batman's ever. wondering if i should hold out awhile and get a blue ray DVD player and then get the movie or just break down and buy the DVD now and get a blue ray version at a later date.

Beast
12-09-2008, 01:27 PM
Picked up the Blu-Ray. Hoping to watch it later.

Maybe I'll actually like the movie on a second viewing.

It's still highly overrated in my opinion. I prefer the Burton films.

Tycho
12-09-2008, 01:47 PM
I got The Dark Knight from Target this morning for $15. I bought the regular DVD edition, and didn't want any 2-disc set, exclusive junk or anything.

I'm a purist and this is my favorite movie. I'll just want to watch the film over and over again. "Ready. Set. And go!"

I invited friends over to watch the movie at 7pm PST tonight. I'm cleaning house today so they may have a comfortable visit.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-09-2008, 02:48 PM
Picked up the Blu-Ray. Hoping to watch it later.

Maybe I'll actually like the movie on a second viewing.

It's still highly overrated in my opinion. I prefer the Burton films.

One of the many problems with you, Beastie. Then again, you DID like HOWARD THE DUCK, so I don't think many really buy/look into your opinion too seriously. :p And don't even get me started on your adoration of X3....hehehehehee :thumbsup:

I cut up the cardboard sleeve and that's now my official packaging. Looks pretty good, aside from a slighting scissor misstep at the bottom. Overall, i'm very pleased.

I've already watched the movie once; it's so damn fantastic. I haven't seen it since the midnight showing on the 17th/18th, so it was fresh again. Awesome stuff. :thumbsup:

Beast
12-09-2008, 02:51 PM
One of the many problems with you, Beastie. Then again, you DID like HOWARD THE DUCK, so I don't think many really buy/look into your opinion too seriously. :p And don't even get me started on your adoration of X3....hehehehehee :thumbsup:

I cut up the cardboard sleeve and that's now my official packaging. Looks pretty good, aside from a slighting scissor misstep at the bottom. Overall, i'm very pleased.

I've already watched the movie once; it's so damn fantastic. I haven't seen it since the midnight showing on the 17th/18th, so it was fresh again. Awesome stuff. :thumbsup:
Pbbt. I just consider the films "Batman In Name Only".

And hey, even Kevin Smith liked X3. Especially over Superman Retreads.

It's worth buying the movie for the extras anyway. The Tech and Psychology specials that aired on History Channel back when TDK came out. Both in HD on Blu-Ray.