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View Full Version : Vader didn't shoot Luke down in ANH? Target locked in...



TheDarthVader
08-09-2006, 11:55 AM
Watching ANH today, Vader says, "I have you now." This is after we see that his targeting computer has locked Luke's X-wing into the computer. Then Vader GETS HIS SHOT OFF! How did those shots, you can see them better in slow motion, miss Luke's X-wing? He does not turn or jerk his tie fighter because of the Millennium Falcon. We can see that in slow motion. So how did those seemingly straight laser cannon blasts miss the X-wing????

Just watch it before you respond...much appreciated.

mtriv73
08-09-2006, 12:12 PM
Vader, as powerful with the force as he is, sensed the Falcon coming towards him which shook his concentration and threw his aim off.

Or, we saw with red leader that those computers aren't the most accurate things in the world. Maybe if he'd just used the force rather than his computer to aim he would have gotten him.

JediTricks
08-09-2006, 07:46 PM
Perhaps Vader's computer was still homing in and Vader took the shot expecting that his fire would track into the X-wing in a few more shots. I have noticed what you're talking about though, his fire doesn't hit its mark at that point, but then again, there are a lot of missed shots in that battle anyway.

Jargo
08-09-2006, 08:18 PM
because we'd have no 5th or 6th movie if he'd hit the x-wing and 'sploded it?

I dunno i may be barking up the wrong tree here but y'know....

JediTricks
08-09-2006, 09:27 PM
They didn't need to show Vader's TIE firing, they chose to.

Qui-Long Gone
08-09-2006, 10:11 PM
I thought Han fired first, but with Lucas' redux I can never remember who shot at who in what battle when and where....:D

TheDarthVader
08-10-2006, 08:54 AM
They didn't need to show Vader's TIE firing, they chose to.

Exactly. I wish they had chose not to show him firing. What's more, they show Vader hitting the laser firing buttons with his hands. ???

His computer being "off target" doesn't make sense because, up until that point, every time he "locked a target in" it meant "yo ***". Watch it, and see what I mean?

Anyway...just something that really bugs me. But ANH is still my favorite. :)

stillakid
08-10-2006, 09:42 AM
I thought Han fired first, but with Lucas' redux I can never remember who shot at who in what battle when and where....:D


Right. Lucas had to have Vader actually fire first so that Han didn't seem like a cold-blooded killer. The earlier Greedo scene was foreshadowing this later incident. :D

JediTricks
08-10-2006, 03:53 PM
It's in the script, Vader was supposed to fire and then have his wingman shot, why Vader is supposed to miss remains unexplained. Maybe it's Obi-Wan's doing, maybe shooting at a moving target in space going super fast isn't as easy as it looks, but the script gives no clue as to why Luke doesn't get hit this time.

When R2 is shot moments before, Vader is locked in and his hits aren't very precise, most of the shots miss before one strikes the droid, so it's not entirely surprising that the targeting computer ain't that perfect.

darthvyn
08-10-2006, 04:32 PM
well, confuters aern't plerfect.

i bet it's a combination of the fact that the computer was locked onto a region of space ahead of the craft, not the x-wing itself... many variables to contend with there... and the fact that the force is strong with luke, and that somehow did... something... to the ... uh...

and han... he distracted you while you would've been thinking about the force being strong with luke somehow... yeah... oh, and he shot the wingman, who collided with the other wingman, who then sent vader careening into space.

THEED CLOSED

El Chuxter
08-10-2006, 05:00 PM
well, confuters aern't plerfect.

testering typung wiyth oyur eyeds closded, I see?

TheDarthVader
08-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Good try, but the responses are still lame. I would rather people say, "You know, it doesn't make sense."

Like I said, Vader's computer worked perfectly up until that point.

GO WATCH THE SEQUENCE AGAIN. DON'T JUST RESPOND FROM MEMORY! That is what I requested when I first posted. Then come back and answer intelligently.

JT has done the best job so far.

2-1B
08-11-2006, 11:08 AM
ANH is a work of perfection, above criticism. :crazed:

;)

stillakid
08-11-2006, 01:18 PM
Good try, but the responses are still lame. I would rather people say, "You know, it doesn't make sense." .

It sounds as if you didn't really ask a question, but are just waiting for everyone to validate your own conclusion by answering with the above statement. No?

In lieu of taking the cheese, it seems more worthy of the time commitment to just make a smart-as$ comment and see what the other new posts are. :D

2-1B
08-11-2006, 10:44 PM
I prefer to use peanut butter as bait.

stillakid
08-11-2006, 11:04 PM
I prefer to use peanut butter as bait.

How do you get it through your lips? :razz:

2-1B
08-12-2006, 02:49 AM
I borrow the cotton balls from Hayden's mouth and dab it in there.

seanmcfripp
08-14-2006, 09:33 PM
I borrow the cotton balls from Hayden's mouth and dab it in there.

Need more than cotton to crack that grin. A cottony fluffer-nutter sounds pretty tasty though.

TheDarthVader
08-15-2006, 07:46 PM
I can't take the cheese because I am the one who has thrown it out there. Besides, I have no clue why it shows Vader firing his laser cannon after he locks Luke into his computer.

I don't mean to come across as crass, and I can see how it may have been perceived that way.

stillakid
08-15-2006, 09:45 PM
I can't take the cheese because I am the one who has thrown it out there. Besides, I have no clue why it shows Vader firing his laser cannon after he locks Luke into his computer.

Because I wasn't there, I have no clue as to the actual answer, but I'll take a wild guess and suggest that because ILM was just a fledgling operation led by misfits, they didn't get the fx for that scene done at a time when they could have had reference to the live action shots of Vader saying "I have you now" then him pushing the buttons.

And because Lucas was running around exhausted just trying to get ANYTHING out of the Valjean Frat House, he wasn't too picky by the end of the schedule because Fox was all over his butt about this "dumb" movie that they saw a screening of. While Lucas needed quality fx, he wasn't going to quibble over something fairly insignificant that would only be brought up by fanboys some 30 years later.

Perhaps his time and money would have been better spent fixing this error instead of trying to save Solo's reputation by having Greedo fire a gratuitous shot into the wall.

2-1B
08-15-2006, 10:29 PM
It's because of Darth Vader's bipolar disorder. He was so moody when he was firing at Luke that some shots were on target and others went rogue on account of his high and low mood swings.

stillakid
08-16-2006, 12:49 AM
It's because of Darth Vader's bipolar disorder. He was so moody when he was firing at Luke that some shots were on target and others went rogue on account of his high and low mood swings.

I think he got that problem under control by the time ANH came out. He only was flip flopping mood swings when his face was exposed. Maybe his affliction had something to do with sun exposure?

2-1B
08-16-2006, 09:46 AM
No, because this was "a long time ago" and they didn't have medication for it yet...he was still bipolar.

Qui-Long Gone
08-16-2006, 07:26 PM
No, because this was "a long time ago" and they didn't have medication for it yet...he was still bipolar.

And they didn't have the sun yet....

TheDarthVader
08-17-2006, 10:48 PM
Because I wasn't there, I have no clue as to the actual answer, but I'll take a wild guess and suggest that because ILM was just a fledgling operation led by misfits, they didn't get the fx for that scene done at a time when they could have had reference to the live action shots of Vader saying "I have you now" then him pushing the buttons.

And because Lucas was running around exhausted just trying to get ANYTHING out of the Valjean Frat House, he wasn't too picky by the end of the schedule because Fox was all over his butt about this "dumb" movie that they saw a screening of. While Lucas needed quality fx, he wasn't going to quibble over something fairly insignificant that would only be brought up by fanboys some 30 years later.

Perhaps his time and money would have been better spent fixing this error instead of trying to save Solo's reputation by having Greedo fire a gratuitous shot into the wall.

Finally. That all makes sense and is a 100% satisfying answer. And, yes, I wish that ole George could have fixed that scene instead of adding Greedo firing first.

I also like the idea of bi-polar. Man, those chemicals in your head can mess up a lot of ****.

JediTricks
08-18-2006, 02:52 PM
I don't think this is an FX mistake, it could be a poor editing choice by reusing the shot showing Vader's console as he locks in to the X-wing, but the FX are following the script which has Vader shooting and not hitting the X-wing. If it is attributable to the FX though, it'd likely be Stilla's reasoning - they didn't deliver a more appropriate shot of the console or whatever else was mocked up for it, either by being too far behind in the workload or the budget not allowing for one more shot leading to a reuse.

COMMANDERCODY2795
08-19-2006, 11:19 AM
maybe its because the tie collided with vaders at the same ttime he shot? it would make sense.

Qui-Long Gone
08-19-2006, 11:57 AM
Of course when we're dealing with Jedi/Sith things always happen in split seconds....plus I think laser blasters travel slower in outer space....since their weapons were from a long time ago, one could easily dodge them (see C3PO and R2 scramble through a gun fight in the opening sequence of ANH).....

LTBasker
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Earlier we see Vader firing at a "locked" target and the first blasts are way off, he has to redirect his fire with each shot by watching where he's hitting. The targeting computer probably "locks" on a target as in they are in the optimal spot but doesn't give a lock that actually tracks their movements. Since Vader just got off a couple shots, he didn't have time to redirect his fire to counteract Luke's movements.

JediTricks
08-21-2006, 05:23 PM
maybe its because the tie collided with vaders at the same ttime he shot? it would make sense.It didn't happen that way though, Vader shot, then the Falcon blew up the first TIE, and only after that did the second TIE freak out and careen into Vader.


Of course when we're dealing with Jedi/Sith things always happen in split seconds....plus I think laser blasters travel slower in outer space....since their weapons were from a long time ago, one could easily dodge them (see C3PO and R2 scramble through a gun fight in the opening sequence of ANH).....Luke could have dodged them, the FX don't support that (though I will accept the possibility that Luke simply moved upwards right before we saw Vader fire), but it's the shot of Vader's console locking onto the X-wing hampers the theory - a locked-on computer shouldn't miss THAT badly, my only real guess is that the computer is tracking its fire upwards towards the X-wing when the Falcon intervenes.



Earlier we see Vader firing at a "locked" target and the first blasts are way off, he has to redirect his fire with each shot by watching where he's hitting. The targeting computer probably "locks" on a target as in they are in the optimal spot but doesn't give a lock that actually tracks their movements. Since Vader just got off a couple shots, he didn't have time to redirect his fire to counteract Luke's movements.Interesting, which scene are you referring to when Vader locks on and misses? That'd definitely support the "crappy computer" theory, although I think the "pinpointing lock" part is a bit of a stretch since it's such a vague lockon indicator - it's a whole X-wing in the screen.

stillakid
08-21-2006, 06:29 PM
a locked-on computer shouldn't miss THAT badly, my only real guess is that the computer is tracking its fire upwards towards the X-wing when the Falcon intervenes.


Maybe the company that made Greedo's raygun also made Vader's.

LTBasker
08-21-2006, 09:41 PM
The scene is at 1:52:27 according to my DVD during the first X-Wing trench run, his computer "locks" onto the first X-Wing and the first shots go between the group and moves over to the targeted X-Wing with each blast.

Even though a whole ship is shown in the targeting screen, I think my theory still applies that it just locks onto a general area. We see Luke "lock" onto a TIE Fighter before the trench runs begin and you can see a shot or two miss the TIE.

stillakid
08-22-2006, 04:40 AM
TI think my theory still applies that it just locks onto a general area.


Maybe everyone is putting the cart before the horse here. How does a bolt of energy get "locked in" anyway? Air to air missiles "lock in" in a multitude of ways, but the thing that makes them work is an onboard engine of some sort to help guide it to the target. A laser blast, on the other hand, is released and just goes straight until it hits something. The computer in question may be able to tell the pilot when the target is in range of the straight line the laser will follow, but there technically isn't a way for the weapon itself to "lock in" or "home in" on the target.

So in this instance, Vader's computer tells him that the XWing is in the zone where his lasers "could" hit it, but if the target moves at all after the weapon is fired, the lasers will definitely miss. This ignores that inconvenient speed of light thing, but we'll have to let that one go too. :)

JediTricks
08-22-2006, 06:49 PM
The scene is at 1:52:27 according to my DVD during the first X-Wing trench run, his computer "locks" onto the first X-Wing and the first shots go between the group and moves over to the targeted X-Wing with each blast.

Even though a whole ship is shown in the targeting screen, I think my theory still applies that it just locks onto a general area. We see Luke "lock" onto a TIE Fighter before the trench runs begin and you can see a shot or two miss the TIE.I'll check it out later, that'd definitely change this argument.


Maybe everyone is putting the cart before the horse here. How does a bolt of energy get "locked in" anyway? Air to air missiles "lock in" in a multitude of ways, but the thing that makes them work is an onboard engine of some sort to help guide it to the target. A laser blast, on the other hand, is released and just goes straight until it hits something. The computer in question may be able to tell the pilot when the target is in range of the straight line the laser will follow, but there technically isn't a way for the weapon itself to "lock in" or "home in" on the target.

So in this instance, Vader's computer tells him that the XWing is in the zone where his lasers "could" hit it, but if the target moves at all after the weapon is fired, the lasers will definitely miss. This ignores that inconvenient speed of light thing, but we'll have to let that one go too. :)The blaster bolts are not lasers, they're excited gas in a photonic envelope (that's their excuse for why they're not speed-of-light).

If we had seen Luke's X-wing evade at all at that point in the scene it might be believable, but the X-wing had been going straight as an arrow.

stillakid
08-22-2006, 07:09 PM
I'll check it out later, that'd definitely change this argument.

The blaster bolts are not lasers, they're excited gas in a photonic envelope (that's their excuse for why they're not speed-of-light).

No sh**? A "light" envelope? Interesting. Why not just wrap it up in Reynolds Wrap? :p


If we had seen Luke's X-wing evade at all at that point in the scene it might be believable, but the X-wing had been going straight as an arrow.
I haven't seen it in a while, but doesn't the X-Wing float upwards while Vader's excited gas in a photonic envelope creep the same direction?

JediTricks
08-22-2006, 08:49 PM
Heh heh, Vader has excited gas. :D I don't remember him doing so, I haven't watched the scene in a month or so. If I had more time I'd cue it up now, but I've been busy all day.

TheDarthVader
08-31-2006, 09:21 AM
I am going to check the scene LT Basker mentioned...(edit) checked it. Are you sure none of those laser blasts are from the turbo laser? Hmmm. He shot a few times, but he still shot him down. I can see where he missed a few times. Hmmm.

Yeah, I don't remember Luke moving when Vader is firing at him because he is concentrating on hitting that exhaust port.

LTBasker
09-03-2006, 07:58 PM
The turbolasers stop before Vader's squad enters the trench, you wouldn't want to be the unlucky gunner that has to explain shooting the boss would you? :D

One pilot even yells "The guns- they've stopped!"

Even though Vader did shoot down the X-wing, he only got a couple blasts off at Luke and then he was interrupted. Luke's X-wing was sliding around a bit, probably from him trying to align the X-wing with the exhaust port.

Slicker
09-03-2006, 08:25 PM
Even though Vader did shoot down the X-wing, he only got a couple blasts off at Luke and then he was interrupted. Luke's X-wing was sliding around a bit, probably from him trying to align the X-wing with the exhaust port.At that part I'd always thought that Luke was trying to evade Vader by swerving to try and keep him from locking on.


Also, of note is when Vader has Luke locked on earlier when he hits R2. He's got him locked in yet when he fires the shots go high and end up hitting R2 in the dome which is the highest point on the entire fighter since his dome sticks up above the cockpit.

2-1B
09-03-2006, 08:29 PM
Vader should have shot Buzz Droids at Luke...but maybe he figured Artoo would remember how to defeat them.

COMMANDERCODY2795
09-04-2006, 12:05 AM
maybe the laser didn't do anything? couldn't it just done some damage to engine and not one anything,hmmm? *ears twitch like yodas*

Slicker
09-04-2006, 09:49 AM
maybe the laser didn't do anything? couldn't it just done some damage to engine and not one anything,hmmm? *ears twitch like yodas*Ummm, yeah. I'd say it's 100% possible since Luke did get shot by a TIE in the engine and things were fine.&

DarkArtist
09-04-2006, 10:06 AM
Also it looks like Vader's TIE begins to pull up a little during the firing, perhaps he overshot the target.

COMMANDERCODY2795
09-05-2006, 08:31 PM
so i guess that settles it, vaders blast didn't o any thing, or he over shot and hit the middle part in the middle of the engines.