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Tycho
08-16-2006, 07:35 PM
OK, at Rocketboy's request, I will not load this forum with all the WWII titles I am about to watch. I'll BOLD the title of the film I bring up and of course people will be free to discuss what they want. Pearl Harbor and U-571, and though not a war movie, Schindler's List, all have their own threads. Band of Brothers has its own thread in the TV section here: http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5334&highlight=Band+Brothers

We'll start with SAVING PRIVATE RYAN as I just watched this and I want to immediately watch it again. This is one of the greatest war movies ever made, and I doubt the Normandy Invasion on D-Day could have ever been done better. Incidents in the movie such as when one of the squad got killed as they took out the radar station and then one of the boys wanted to mutiny and Capt. Miller finally told them he was a school teacher from Pennsylvania were extraordinarily powerful.

When they found Private Ryan, his determination to do his duty and hold that bridge against the German tanks was made of stuff admirable in every hero in every war movie.

I love the change that the corporal who's a coward goes through. I forgot his name for the moment, but when the German he didn't stop before becomes his prisoner, he just shoots him when he calls his name. Spielberg really demonstrated what war does to people.

Upham - that was it. Corporal Upham. Then BANG!

El Chuxter
08-16-2006, 08:05 PM
Saving Private Ryan is a damned good movie. It's probably the best WWII movie I've seen.

I'd like to recommend two other excellent WWII films, both dealing more with civilians during the Holocaust: The Pianist and Life Is Beautiful.

JimJamBonds
08-16-2006, 10:06 PM
I can't stand Upum in Saving Private Ryan. Otherwise its an AWESOME flick, the landing sequence can't be beat.

I saw Life is Beatiful in the theater way back in.... '99? I thought it was a good flick personally.

JetsAndHeels
08-16-2006, 10:11 PM
Enemy at the Gates is a good WW2 flick. Takes place in Russia.

JimJamBonds
08-16-2006, 10:12 PM
Anbody ever see The Longest Day, it has John Wayne, Sean Connery and a zillion other people. While I've heard great things about it I have to say I thought it wasn't that great of a flick.

Rocketboy
08-16-2006, 10:18 PM
I remember the first time I saw Saving Private Ryan. I thought it was really boring and dragged on and on and on.
This was before I knew or understood much about WWII. Now, I love the living carp out of this movie. Even Vin Diesel is good!

jonthejedi
08-17-2006, 03:58 AM
I saw The Longest Day as a kid. Too many stars, not enough character development. I've since heard Saving P. Ryan is more historically accurate. I'm a big Steve McQueen Fan, so The Great Escape ranks as one of my favorites(check it out Tycho!). Also, The Sand Pebbles(Steve's only Oscar nomination), which is an anomaly since it takes place after WWI, but before WWII. There are so many good ones: A Bridge Too Far, Tycho, definitely check out Battle of Britain for WWII aerial combat; U571(that depth charge scene in surround stereo still gives me the willies), Das Boot, The Big Red One(restored version), A Midnight Clear, God...I could go one forever, and haven't even touched on the older B&W's like Hell Is For Heroes, etc. I just picked up The Devil's Brigade(true story), which is very good, also. This list could be infinity.

CaptainSolo1138
08-17-2006, 07:10 AM
IMDB had an interesting "fact" about Cpl. Upham: He's supposed to represent the viewer, seeing war for the first time. I'm not sure how well that works for me, but I can see where Spielberg was coming from.

I always get mad at Upham. From the start of the film his character grinds me, and after Mellish gets it (in one of the most disturbing deaths EVER in a movie) I honestly get mad.

Blue2th
08-17-2006, 07:20 AM
The best WWII airplane movies are "Tora Tora Tora" and "Battle of Britain" The first is more of a docudrama, but very well done. With more flying scenes than Pearl Harbor. Also told from the Japanese point of view. The second is also kind of a docudrama, with a little more character development. The only movie I've ever seen with actual German manufactured aircraft, and more British Spitfires and Hurricanes you will ever see. Also told with a German point of view. Lots of famous stars in both these flicks. Both historically accurate. Both warplane lovers dream movies.

El Chuxter
08-17-2006, 07:35 AM
IMDB had an interesting "fact" about Cpl. Upham: He's supposed to represent the viewer, seeing war for the first time. I'm not sure how well that works for me, but I can see where Spielberg was coming from.

I always get mad at Upham. From the start of the film his character grinds me, and after Mellish gets it (in one of the most disturbing deaths EVER in a movie) I honestly get mad.

Hmmm. I can sort of see that. From the beginning, he's totally disoriented, and he makes some awful decisions that he'll have to live with forever.

JimJamBonds
08-17-2006, 08:16 AM
I always get mad at Upham. From the start of the film his character grinds me, and after Mellish gets it (in one of the most disturbing deaths EVER in a movie) I honestly get mad.


Preach on brother!!!


What was the name of the escape movie that came out last year? It was based on the escape at Kabanatowon (sp???).

Ji'dai
08-17-2006, 10:18 AM
What was the name of the escape movie that came out last year? It was based on the escape at Kabanatowon (sp???). The Great Raid with Benjamin Bratt leading a group of Army Rangers to free several hundred POWs from a Japanese camp in the Phillipines. It was watchable, but didn't quite resonate with me.

2-1B
08-17-2006, 11:03 AM
Affleck was the bomb in Pearl Harbor, yo.

Tycho
08-17-2006, 11:09 AM
Last night I could only watch the first hour of The Battle of Britain.

The flying sequences were incredible and the meeting between the German and British diplomats in Switzerland was very interesting to me.

It was strange to contrast the German pilots sitting down to eat at a nice restaurant with what we knew their brothers were doing to Jews in the concentration camps. The German fellows there didn't seem like Nazis, in spite of swastikas being painted on their planes (was that accurate? The swastika was a political party symbol, the black cross the German millitary one). Anyway, it prompts a new interest of mine: to study Hitler. He was a dictator yes - but wasn't he ELECTED first? Yeah, he was. Then what happened?

Anyway, I'm going to give The Battle of Britain another chance today. And probably watch it again from the start. The English accents make the characters harder to understand, coupled with the military slang jargon that I'm unfamiliar with. I understand that the characters are probably speaking real English and I am used to "Californian as my first language." However, it didn't help that I started watching this at 11:30pm and at the time, I just didn't have the energy to take it all in. Like I said though - there was a plenty of action and the airial dog-fighting scenes are plenty and really good. I watched the first hour up to the point just after the Brits destroyed the Germans' long-range bombers. They did a really nice job for the effects in an older film!

One thing that I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but the English seemed LAZY. The characters walked instead of ran to respond to air raids, and talked instead of shouted commands a lot of the time. "The Bomb" could have been dropped, and it seemed as if the English would have tea before they decided what to do about it.

Another thing that surprised me was the women in the British military service. I'm not sure if England was the first to employ women in their military (as control operators etc.) but I was used to seeing the ladies in the service working as nurses, such as they were depicted in Pearl Harbor. I know because England's mainland came under attack was the only reason these ladies were put "in the front line," but it did strike me as different, though I suppose it wasn't. I guess I got used to Kate Beckinsale's nurse character in Pearl Harbor and didn't think of her as military because she wasn't serving in a tactical capacity like these Brit-chicks were. But I guess the Spice Girls can fight! Hehe.

Anyway, I'm going to watch The Battle of Britain all the way through in a little while here.

vader121
08-17-2006, 01:54 PM
Ok, besides what has been mentioned before here are some movies that I really like on WW2 that I recommend strongly ...

Kelly's Heroes - Clint Eastwood, lot of action, funny through much of it.

A Bridge Too Far

Midway - they show this on TV all the time. Very cool aerial combart scenes which are mostly actual footage.

Sands of Iwo Jima

Windtalkers

Bridge at Ramagon - I may have spelling this wrong but stars Burt Lancaster

Bataan

Memphis Belle

Patton

The Flying Leathernecks - John Wayne, a lot of great aerial combat scenes which are actual footage.

Oh, also, ever see Black Sheep the tv series based on Pappy Boyington? Pretty cool show.

Tycho
08-17-2006, 03:49 PM
Upon my 2nd "all-the-way-through" viewing of The Battle of Britain I really liked this movie in retrospect. I was too tired to watch it before. It is a 1969 piece, and thus I'm still used to a more modern "Pearl Harbor" style soundtract (orchestra versus band I suppose) - but the story gets good, especially seeing the aftermath of London's bombing and a "World Trade Center" type of result. By the way, George Lucas was inspired for the way the Battle of Yavin was displayed by the dogfighting and attacks in The Battle of Britain. You can see a lot of the fightercraft and bombers moving in patterns very similar to X and Y-Wings and TIE Fighters.

Anyway, I'm about to watch "A Bridge Too Far," this afternoon. This is a 1977 piece (yes, contemporary to Star Wars: A New Hope). We'll see how it does.

This movie has a lot of known names in its cast including:

Robert Redford (The Natural, more)
Gene Hackman (Lex Luthor, Crimson Tide, more)
Sean Connery (James Bond, Henry Jones)
Elliot Gould (I'm pretty sure I've heard of him)
Anthony Hopkins (Hannibal, Legends of the Fall)

and probably more names I just don't recognize. Connery, Hackman, and Hopkins had the most enduring careers as I came of age to see them in the movies. The others were slightly before my time I think.

Anyway, in 1977 they were all young men. I think Connery is actually close to Harrison Ford's age because they used to crack jokes about him playing Indiana Jones' father when he's barely older than Harrison. I presume '77 was after Connery's James Bond stint?

Hackman should be close to looking as he did in Superman The Movie, as it was made approximately the same time.

I don't think I've seen Hopkins in movies this old. When you think about it: Star Wars ANH is going to be 30 years old as well.

Anyway, we'll see how things go with "A Bridge Too Far," next.

Blue2th
08-17-2006, 06:15 PM
Midway - they show this on TV all the time. Very cool aerial combart scenes which are mostly actual footage.

It's a cool movie. The problem with the actual footage, is that it is from later in the war. All the airplanes in the actual Battle of Midway are not shown. They show a Hellcat crashing on the deck of an Aircraft Carrier. Hellcats didn't enter the war until 1943. The actual fighter was a Widcat. There is no footage of the doomed lumbering TBD Devastator Torpedo Bomber. The whole Squadran was lost trying to attack the Jap carriers. Torpedo 8 had only one survivor Ensign George Gay, who watched the battle in the water. What the cool thing was that the Japs were so afraid of torpedoes, while attacking Torpedo 8 who were coming in low right above the waves, with their Zeros, they forgot about a whole squadron of SBD Dauntless Dive Bombers, up high coming out of the clouds, who destoyed three carriers in one attack. The Japs delayed lauching their aircraft because they couldn't decide on bombs or torpedoes, because a scout sighted the U.S. cariers in the midst of the attack on Midway. So the dive bombers caught the Flat-tops with their decks loaded with aircraft and amunition. (that part is in the movie) It's a wonder the Americans won that battle with all the slow obsolete aircraft we had in 1942. Against the odds we got lucky at Midway, and the Japs got stupid. It's one of my favorite War stories. I recommend reading the book and getting the real story. If it hadn't have been for Torpedo 8's sacrifice, we would have not have caught them by suprise. Probably more than you want to know, but there it is..

Tycho
08-17-2006, 06:23 PM
No, that was very cool info. Thanks for sharing!

The movie Midway is on order and should arrive in my mail in the next few days - well, maybe after the weekend. That's OK, because I'll be watching 10 hours or more of Band of Brothers by then. I love airial combat however and Midway does it well - especially being that it's a real battle and not a story concocted for "Top Gun," or something. I think Navy air battles are way cool and have a very different "all military feel" to them, than say The Battle of Britain.

Were the Japanese Zero planes more threatening than the German 109's? That's the impression I get. The other hot plane out there was the English Spitfire which the Allied Forces had.

What were the planes of WWII anyway? Who's and what were they used for? (Fighters, bombers, which service (Army, Navy, AirForce, Marines)?

Blue2th
08-17-2006, 07:06 PM
No, that was very cool info. Thanks for sharing!

I think Navy air battles are way cool and have a very different "all military feel" to them, than say The Battle of Britain.

Were the Japanese Zero planes more threatening than the German 109's? That's the impression I get. The other hot plane out there was the English Spitfire which the Allied Forces had.

What were the planes of WWII anyway? Who's and what were they used for? (Fighters, bombers, which service (Army, Navy, AirForce, Marines)?
The Battle of Britain was probably a little more desperate than potrayed. After all, just think if the Brits lost? We would be speaking German perhaps or it would be like that episode of Enterprise (only without aliens)........The Jap Zero could not be matched in menueverability and speed, but lacked armor. The Wildcats (at Midway) and the p-40's both interceptor fighters though slower had armor and could take a beating. It was all over for the Japs when the Hellcat and Corsair came out in 1943. Plus the Japs never wore parachutes! What the...duh!......The Me-109 fighter was the main workhorse for the Germans. A feared plane. Much superior to the Zero. (remember Erich Hartmann- 352 kills!) with a 30mm cannon in the nose ouch! one hit it was over. The Spitfire is the reason we don't speak German (with a little help from Hurricanes- That's the one Robert Shaw was flying) Developed from a racing plane. The Americans took the engine from a Spitfire and put it in the Mustang. Then it was all over for the Germans with P-51 Mustangs escorting the B-17's (Memphis Bell) and B-24 Bombers all the way in to Germany and back starting in 1943. The Mustang saved the Bombing campaign, when we suffered unbelievable losses to our bombers before then and almost decided to end it. But wait... the Germans made the first operational JET, entering service in 1944, the Messershmitt Me-262. (also delayed a year by Hitler who wanted to make it a bomber-duh!) The allies didn't know what hit them! this fighter was almost 200 mph faster than the Mustang! By then we had bombed their facilities so much, they ran out of gas literally. "Whew" We didn't know how close we were to losing. They were already firing missles, yes missles at Britain (the V2 rocket- invented by Werner Vonbruan head of Nasa Saturn program post war U.S.A.) Just think if they had developed a longer range rocket. They were tryng.

Darth Jax
08-17-2006, 07:39 PM
Affleck was the bomb in Pearl Harbor, yo.

affleck was the bomb in phantoms

kelly's heroes and the big red one (featuring luke skywalker) are without a doubt my favorite WWII movies. other good ones off the top of my head - tora, tora, tora; midway; and bataan.

never really understood the hype about saving private ryan (had to be coerced into seeing it). it was an ok movie but nothing special. haven't seen pearl harbor, and have no desire to. the japanese deliberately attacked america, don't gloss over that fact so you can have a japanese audience for the movie.

2-1B
08-17-2006, 11:15 PM
Jax, I was applying the concept of Affleck's bombness to another vehicle.

Tycho
08-18-2006, 01:21 AM
the japanese deliberately attacked america, don't gloss over that fact so you can have a japanese audience for the movie.

I really don't get your point here. Does that mean that World Trade Center is going to become Osama Bin Laden's favorite movie?

Pearl Harbor was very tastefully done and surely made most Americans strongly wanting to defend their country.

Meanwhile, I've watched the first hour of "A Bridge Too Far." I've liked it better than "Britain" almost instantly - I think the music, though still "band," is better as well.

Gene Hackman doesn't say or do much so far. He's a Polish General who brought up his forces to help the British and Americans in their largest airborne drop in the history of the war up to that point. His accent he's faking sounds Scottish rather than whatever Polish accents are supposed to sound like though. I think the producer just wanted another big name to go with the rest of the big name cast, but Gene Hackman was wrong for this role. He still could have been cast in the movie, but he makes a rather obviously convincing American - so that is what he should have played.

Sean Connery is good from the start though.

I got tired, so I took a break from the movie. Couldn't go to sleep and decided to post instead of go back to the film at the moment.

The boys have parachuted into Holland now, and the tank brigades are catching up to the troops, while light artillery blows holes in the German lines.

The real battle has not yet began. It's a 3 hour movie, so you can see why I'm not relishing the prospect of staying up all night with it.

jonthejedi
08-18-2006, 03:45 AM
I had a "double-dose" of WWII on AMC yesterday: A Bridge Too Far(I Love Sean: "2 days they said...we've been here 9"); followed by The Enemy Below(destroyer vs. German sub) with Robert Mitchum. Prettty good. Tycho...try to get ahold of newer Big Red One DVD(restored, reconstructed version). The older version pops up at WalMart & Target for 5.50. This is based on director Sam Fullers WWII experiences, starting with the Normandy Invasion & continuing through the Italy & Africa campaigns thru to Germany. Lee Marvin is great as The Sergeant...and costars Mark Hamill in probably his best acting role. It's a one-squad story, so you really get to know the war through these 4 young men. It doesn't pull any punches either.

CaptainSolo1138
08-18-2006, 06:09 AM
Jax, I was applying the concept of Affleck's bombness to another vehicle.I thought it was funny.

Darth Jax
08-18-2006, 06:34 AM
Jax, I was applying the concept of Affleck's bombness to another vehicle.

has affleck actually been the bomb in any movie ?


I really don't get your point here. Does that mean that World Trade Center is going to become Osama Bin Laden's favorite movie?

Pearl Harbor was very tastefully done and surely made most Americans strongly wanting to defend their country.


i don't think you can draw comparisons between a historical military raid and a recent horrific event that hasn't been explained to everyone's satisfaction.

while i haven't seen pearl harbor, when it came out all the reviews of it that i read indicated it downplayed the aggressive nature of the japanese attack so as not to alienate a potential japanese audience to the film.

Rocketboy
08-18-2006, 09:11 AM
has affleck actually been the bomb in any movie ?Chasing Amy.

Tycho
08-18-2006, 11:30 AM
while i haven't seen pearl harbor, when it came out all the reviews of it that i read indicated it downplayed the aggressive nature of the japanese attack so as not to alienate a potential japanese audience to the film.

So? You can see the movie and make up your own opinion for yourself.

Personally, I hated the Japanese for what they did at Pearl, and I wanted revenge, not any kind of happy Japanese audience.

If I were Japanese or watching the film with someone who was, I'd hope they'd be ashamed of their country's fighters shooting at hospitals, firetrucks, medics, and civilians. The movie portrays all that.

If you wanted to make Pearl Harbor and have the Japanese look good, you'd just show them hitting the military ships and not focus on the American sailors trapped inside burning, sinking hulks and drowning to death. No that movie made me wish it ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki (was that the other bomb target?) instead of the weak little Doolittle raid. When President Rooseveldt, who you can help but sympathize with because of his physical ailments, forces himself to stand up out of his wheelchair in front of his cabinet and tells them and all his military chiefs of staff "DON'T TELL ME WHAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!" you see another hero that represents us all and all our anguish over Pearl. (the military said it was impossible for our bombers of the day to reach Tokyo from aircraft carriers because Russia wouldn't let us launch from their mainland. So Doolittle ordered Army bombers to launch from Navy aircraft carriers because we didn't have the bomb at that time, but Rooseveldt wanted to punch the Japanese back as hard as he could.)

Yeah, Pearl Harbor the movie starts and delves into the love triangle story between two best friends who are P-40 fighter pilots and who both have fallen for the same girl (one after the first is believed to have been killed as a volunteer pilot in the Battle of Britain), but I think it's a really good story whom Affleck, Hartnett, and the WOW Kate Beckinsale were perfectly cast for - as was Cuba Gooding and Alec Baldwin (as Doolittle). No, this was a seriously good movie.

The other 3 I'd most recommend so far would be U-571 (USA submarine war), Saving Private Ryan (USA D-Day and Post-invasion Ops), and A Bridge Too Far (USA, British, and Polish push to capture bridges into Germany so the Allied forces could crush Berlin - General Montgomery commands)*

*Montgomery and Patton were Isenhauer's two best men in the European theater but they disliked each other intensely and each wanted to be the one to lead their divisions into Berlin first. A Bridge Too Far is about Montgomery pushing too far, too fast. I believe Patton took the Third Reich down instead. I'm still getting to that part. But Montgomery's "Operation: Market-Garden" was the largest airborne drop in the history of the world they said. We shall see.

El Chuxter
08-18-2006, 01:08 PM
My wife saw it, and told me there was a scene where Roosevelt stood up to make an overdramatic scene more overdramatic. That was plenty for me.

And, no, I don't think it's a good idea to hate the Japanese. For one thing, they gave us the Transformers, Voltron, and ninjas, without whom GIJoe would be damned boring. For another thing, blind hatred of the Japanese and Italians during WWII resulted in a lot of patriotic American citizens being locked away in internment camps simply because of where they (or their parents or even grandparents) were born. Aside from the fact that these camps didn't have gas chambers or mad scientists, they're no better than the German concentration camps. The Japanese fought during WWII in the spirit of bushido, which is, all things considered, pretty freaking brutal, but still a belief system. We as Americans, on the other hand, threw our beliefs about equality right out the window when we set up internment camps.

Tycho
08-18-2006, 01:26 PM
You know: SO WHAT?!

Japanese citizens that were still loyal to their homeland helped do the intelligence work for Pearl Harbor. I'm sorry, but RACIAL PROFILING is justifiably smart and correct in many cases. As far as the Japanese-Americans were concerned in WWII (and I'm a Trek fan so I know about George Takei (Capt. Sulu) - it was a sorry time for patriotic immigrants and 1st generation Americans of Japanese descent - but it was proven necessary by Pearl Harbor. So meanwhile, post-911, I don't give a darn if you want to wear a turban on an airplane - you invite the profiling. If you are a terrorist, you'd be smarter to try and assimilate and blend in rather than stick out. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the freedom to wear a turban - but I am saying that some freedoms come with a heavier price than others: an airport search and background check in this case.

As to Rooseveldt standing up being over-dramatic? I'm not sure if he really did that or not. It's a minor point in the movie anyway, and what? It's all of 30 seconds in a nearly 3 hour movie? Personally, I loved the scene.

Next, I think that I generalized about "hating the Japanese." You generalize about the enemy that way. I think I spelled out what I meant by hating the pilots that shot civilians and bombed emergency services, and the Admirals and Captains that led them into battle. Some Japanese civilian women were shown witnessing the escape of Doolittle's raiders. I felt no animosity towards them. The guys shooting the anti-aircraft batteries at our American heroes? Well that's another story.

Do you think that if you'd kill them, you have to hate them? I guess not necessarily - but I don't think I could have dinner with one of those guys in 1950 and hear them out explaining why there were justified in killing civilians. I'd just as soon have shot them "Han Solo style."

I still want to very strongly recommend 1977's "A Bridge Too Far." Sean Connery is awesome in this war movie and I think the strongest member of the cast that inlcudes Anthony Hopkins (another good performance), Gene Hackman (miscast), and Robert Redford (sort of underutilized). John Ratzenburger (Cliff, Major Derlin) is also in this movie, amongst a lot of stars like Elliot Gould, and Dermot Elliot (Marcus Brody in Indiana Jones) - plus more.

You don't get hung up in who's playing the parts though. You're really caught up in a lot of action during the war - and there's plenty of varied and good combat scenes from tanks, planes doing bombing runs, to infantry combat in the streets guerllia style, to open fields and forest combat, to a beach landing similar to D-Day, but over the river instead. It's quite a show. I like the theme music too. It's sort of orchestra to a military band hymm (kind of). But it's catchy and resounds in my head.

Sorry for the two topics (Pearl and Holland) all at once. But both were on my mind.

OC47150
08-18-2006, 02:08 PM
Where Eagles Dare, the Guns of Navarone and the Great Escape are the three WWII movies my mother and I watch frequently. Yes, I get my love of action movies from dear old Mom. :love: We mutter the lines to each other, too.

Other faves of mine: Kelly's Heroes; the Big Red One (the reconstructed version is great); A Bridge Too Far; Hell is for Heroes; the Dirty Dozen; the Bridge at Remagen; A Time for Trumpets (an HBO movie); Battle of Britain; Battle of the Bulge (restored version). You know, the classics you grew up on.

Saving Private Ryan is a good movie, but beyond the invasion scene, it's a flawed movie. Too many inaccuracies after the first 20 - 30 minutes.

OC47150
08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
If you haven't seen A Time for Trumpets, it's worth a watch. It's like a remake of Hell is for Heroes. Both are set in the Hurtgen Forest, a campaign that started in September 1944 and stretched into the winter. One of the bloodiest battles of WWII. The Battle of the Bulge overshadowed the Hurtgen Forest. If it weren't for that, the Hurtgen Forest debacle will be more well known.

The Longest Day is good too.

For a modern war/action movie, I suggest The Wild Geese, a 70s mercenary movie starring Richard Burton and Roger Moore set in Africa. It's one of (if not the) best non-Bond Moore did. It came out on DVD last fall. A great one.

Tycho
08-18-2006, 02:30 PM
Man I love "A Bridge Too Far!" I'm going to watch it again I've decided.

"Battle of the Bulge" is on deck, but I love "Bridge." Pay attention guys-who-haven't-seen-it-yet. This movie is collecting a few good recommendations from well-versed war movie watchers here.

Another aspect of "A Bridge Too Far" is that it showed the Dutch Underground and how civilian families were affected before, during, and after the fighting destroyed their city. They weren't afraid to show the cost in blood paid by women and children - and during the bright summer's days too. This is not some dark movie shot in dull green and grey (Private Ryan is not especially colorful for example). This is deadly warfare brought on under bright and colorful skies that are only clouded by Europe's ashes.

jonthejedi
08-18-2006, 03:48 PM
There you go, Tycho, two votes for Big Red One(restored version) & The Great Escape...although two VERY different types of war movies. I forgot about Guns of Navarone...a classic! Didn't care much for Force 10 with post SW Harrison Ford. Please try Devil's Brigate, too...not alot of war movies set in Italy, as opposed to France, Germany, Africa. Where Eagles Dare was ok if you like Clint E. I've never seen Kelly's Heroes. For a great PS2 WWII gaming experience...try Medal of Honor or Call of Duty.

Slicker
08-18-2006, 04:13 PM
I definitely love The Pianist. I just watched it a couple of weeks ago and loved it still.

Saving Private Ryan is by far my favorite though with Enemy at the Gates following close behind.

Tycho
08-18-2006, 10:19 PM
Hopefully I won't get in trouble for racial slurs again, but I just thought of something.

The Allied Forces called the Germans "Gerries." Presumably from the abbreviation for Germany as Ger.? I'm not sure. Gerhard was a common name perhaps?

And the Axis Powers called either the British or the Americans "Tommies" (not sure which) - must have been perhaps because Thomas was a common name?

Well, I'm not sure how old the cartoon characters are, but they are forever locked in their own little "world war" of cat-and-mouse, but they are: Tom & Jerry. Is there any relation to World War II?

Slicker
08-19-2006, 01:24 AM
Jerries is indeed a "shortening" of Germans but after searching (not really "searching" so much as "wiking") I found this article on Tommies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommies). Quite interesting.

Blue2th
08-19-2006, 07:39 AM
The Gerries were also afraid of Tommy's Tommy-gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun

Tycho
08-19-2006, 10:23 AM
Interesting reading about the history of machine guns. I spent the better part of the last half hour getting educated on the subject matter. Thanks. I also explored the history of Wikipedia - very interesting as well.

Anyway I started watching The Battle of the Bulge. It's sort of "early-primative" in that its props and effects totally remind you of watching a Classic Star Trek episode or early James Bond movie with all its gadgets and weapons of mass destruction toy model museum. I was too tired to watch more than 20 minutes or so of this film, but I enjoyed the guys flying the cardboard airplane (prop - it was supposed to look metallic I guess) and I'll continue watching today. I have no opinion so far other than it's interesting and the tanks they got for this film are real - hopefully I'll see them in action.

Slicker
08-19-2006, 10:43 AM
I've tried to watch the Battle of the Bulge several times but I always give up because of the fact that they are using American tanks that look NOTHING like panzers. I just can't look past that for some reason.

Tycho
08-19-2006, 10:51 AM
It appears to be a low-budget, or early-primative (but still in color) film, Slicker.

I'm going to watch it all though, and see how well they do with the story and acting. That can make a huge difference to me.

This movie keeps me wondering when James Bond is going to square off with Adolf Hitler though, LOL.

Blue2th
08-19-2006, 11:03 AM
I noticed that right away about the tanks Slicker. They're either Pattons or Walker Bulldogs.........Speaking of James Bond (spies) They movie "Operation Crossbow" another George Peppard movie about spies trying to infiltrate the Nazi V1 Buzz-bomb and V2 Rocket programs. This is a very dark flick. It alternates scenes of the allied spies and the Germans test flying the unmanned Buzz-bomb. Manned at first with a woman test pilot. I liked this one. For an old flick but still in color it was pretty good.

Rocketboy
08-19-2006, 03:37 PM
Anyone seen "The Eagle Has Landed"?
Is it any good?
I see it in the $5.50 bin at Wal-Mart and have been tempted to buy it, but haven't yet.

Blue2th
08-19-2006, 03:46 PM
I think I saw that movie a while ago. It wasn't bad. The only thing that bothered me is seeing a helicopter in it. And it was a German markings American Korean war Mash helicopter. I don't remember any helicopters in WWII. Though I think some countries were on the verge of developing one. It just seemed very unlikely and ruined the movie for me, being an aviation buff................Whoops I just remembered that's "Where Eagles Dare" with Clint Eastwood.

Slicker
08-19-2006, 04:41 PM
Helicopters were used in the war towards the end on both sides. The Germans obviously had one that was a bit more advanced (i.e. armor, weaponary, etc.) than the other sides but the Americans actually used them in the war to pick up stranded seamen I believe. I know they were used but for what exactly is escaping me. I could always use Wiki...;)

Blue2th
08-19-2006, 05:32 PM
Ahh, the old reliable Wiki. I'll probably have to go there now. Didn't the Americans have a twin rotor copter that looked like a huge banana with a rotor on each end that they actually used near the end of the war? Later used in Korea extensively.

Tycho
08-19-2006, 06:26 PM
Not to interrupt your discussion of helicopters, but Battle of the Bulge is getting really good. Man there were a lot of tanks! But speaking of air support of one type or another, why didn't the Allies just bomb the German tank brigade to bits? They had tankbusters in Saving Private Ryan - some version of bomber plane. That was before the Battle of the Bulge. Instead a French town was completely leveled by German Tiger and Pantzer tanks and a lot of US soldiers were captured.

It was interesting to see Germans who'd lived in the USA posing as American MP soldiers and directing the US forces to go the wrong way so that the bridges wouldn't be blown up and the German tank brigade could cross them.

I never realized how much bridges played a crucial role in WWII. If you controlled or destroyed the bridges, you could really control the war.

Blue2th
08-20-2006, 12:20 AM
It's ok you can interrupt me. I'm rambling as I do..... During the Battle of the Bulge it was overcast and bad weather. The Allies couldn't fly in any air support for a while. You can see this also in Bastogne which was part of the Bulge in Band of Brothers, where they were surrounded by the Germans in winter and told to hold the town at all costs. The 101st Airborn Division held this strategic town till help arrived. When the Allies finally were able to drop supplies and send in the Tank-Busters it changed the outcome. Plus Patton finally got there with the 3rd Armored Division. He was hampered by bad weather also. The Army Air Corps could have ended the Battle of the Bulge earlier if the weather had cooperated, but it was the men on the ground that made the difference when there was no air support.

Tycho
08-20-2006, 02:04 AM
In the movie Battle of the Bulge, they do not explain the lack of air support situation at all. That was an sucky oversight if you ask me.

By the way: now that I'm exploring it, many of the major campaigns shown in the World Wars were disasters mismanaged by the armed forces of both sides! I mean gross mismanagement!

Pearl Harbor: the US docked their warships like sitting ducks, worried more about sabotage than the attack that came. They did likewise with their air forces in Hawaii.

Battle of Britain: the Germans flew their longrange bombers out of the range that their fighters could fly support for them.

D-Day: Either no arial bombardment was attempted to soften the Germans at Normandy, or it was totally ineffective and Utah Beach, Omaha Beach, etc. were almost impossible and deadly for our forces. We got lucky that we were able to retake France.

Operation: Market-Garden - the largest Airborne operation in history became a major failure as Montgomery tried to outshine Patton instead of play on the same team. As everyone competed for control over the bridges, the German field marshall arrogantly assumed the Allied Forces were personally after him and refused to blow the bridges as he also presumed the Germans would rally a major amored offensive again. Thus they'd need the bridges. Meanwhile, the Airborne troops' equipment didn't work (communications gear, etc.) and their occupation of Arnem, Netherlands wound up getting the whole town destroyed. Meanwhile the 82Airborne was getting slaughtered trying to cross the river. Plus the Allied's resupplies were getting dropped to the Germans!

Battle of the Bulge - American 101st had no idea that Germans trained to act like Americans were impersonating MPs and taking command of the US forces, misdirecting them. Weather didn't permit either side any air support. The Germans destroyed Allied resupply trains. Bastogne gets leveled by the Germans as well. Germans executed captured American soldiers by mass-firing squad. American troops grew insabordinate to their officers. The list goes on and on.

Slicker
08-20-2006, 09:55 AM
Battle of Britain: the Germans flew their longrange bombers out of the range that their fighters could fly support for them.It's not the bombers fly out of range it was just that the German fighters could only hold enough fuel to fly across the English Channel and have at most 30 minutes of dogfight time. The British would simply wait for the fighters to turn back then slaughter the bomber formations.


D-Day: Either no arial bombardment was attempted to soften the Germans at Normandy, or it was totally ineffective and Utah Beach, Omaha Beach, etc. were almost impossible and deadly for our forces. We got lucky that we were able to retake France.We tried our best to bombard the beaches the best we could but so as to not lead the Germans on to where we were gonna land we had to bomb elsewhere. I believe the ratio was approximately on bombing run on Normandy per every 4-5. On Utah we did completely miss with the aerial AND the naval bombardment and the Germans made us pay.[/quote]


Operation: Market-Garden - the largest Airborne operation in history became a major failure as Montgomery tried to outshine Patton instead of play on the same team. As everyone competed for control over the bridges, the German field marshall arrogantly assumed the Allied Forces were personally after him and refused to blow the bridges as he also presumed the Germans would rally a major amored offensive again. Thus they'd need the bridges. Meanwhile, the Airborne troops' equipment didn't work (communications gear, etc.) and their occupation of Arnem, Netherlands wound up getting the whole town destroyed. Meanwhile the 82Airborne was getting slaughtered trying to cross the river. Plus the Allied's resupplies were getting dropped to the Germans! Not much to say about this except for the fact that the paratroopers literally on top of several SS panzers divisions that were refitting and thought destroyed by the Allies. If not for that the operation may have worked.


Battle of the Bulge - American 101st had no idea that Germans trained to act like Americans were impersonating MPs and taking command of the US forces, misdirecting them. Weather didn't permit either side any air support. The Germans destroyed Allied resupply trains. Bastogne gets leveled by the Germans as well. Germans executed captured American soldiers by mass-firing squad. American troops grew insabordinate to their officers. The list goes on and on.The one funny thing about the Battle of the Bulge and airforces is that Hitler deliberately planned the invasion to take place in overcast weather so the Allies couldn't fly yet he had several thousand planes assigned to the operation to hamper the Allies. Needless to say the Germans didn't fly many sorties either and the battle actually shortened the war since the troops taken for the battle were drawn from the reserves of the eastern front thus weakening the front at a crucial time.

Tycho
08-20-2006, 07:17 PM
I finished watching Battle of the Bulge earlier today and it is an excellent movie. A Bridge Too Far is better, but I am very glad I bought them both. They'll have repeat viewings in my video collection.

The music to Battle of the Bulge is pretty cool.

But I've started Band of Brothers now. That music and its character development and factual accuracy is amazing!

Forum member "LOBITO" started the thread for Band of Brothers and other HBO shows here: http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5334&highlight=Band+Brothers

so I'm just going to roll with that one and use it for much of my discussion of the series. Please join in if you like. This thread will shortly be moving on to the Pacific Theater of the war, as Germany's defeat seemed well documented in Band of Brothers - such a great series!

Slicker
08-20-2006, 07:20 PM
If you move on to the Pacific theater I believe I'm out of this thread. For some reason teh Pacific doesn't hold much for me. I know alot about it but it just bores me for some reason. I think it's because it was such a primitive war whereas the European war was very technological in nature and alot of the technology that came from that war is still influencing us.

Tycho
08-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Slicker, "Flags of Our Fathers" will be coming out in theaters this fall and may spark an interest in the Pacific Theater again. You never know. You make a good point about technology, but I thought that the Japanese did alright in that area? Germany surrendered first, and we had the chance to redeploy our technology to the Pacific, too.

The other thing was "the bomb" was new technology that we deployed in the Pacific and didn't have in time to drop on Berlin (else we might have - as much as many like to blame racism for why we bombed the Japanese - I don't think it was really).

Slicker
08-20-2006, 07:40 PM
Slicker, "Flags of Our Fathers" will be coming out in theaters this fall and may spark an interest in the Pacific Theater again. You never know. You make a good point about technology, but I thought that the Japanese did alright in that area? Germany surrendered first, and we had the chance to redeploy our technology to the Pacific, too.Yes, but Germany surrendered first because they had approximately 10,000,000 me against nearly 30,000,000 me. Not good odds in a war. Alot of the technology the Japanese had actually came from Germany. That's not to say that they weren't technological but they didn't have the industrial capabilities that other nations had. They had to use inferior metals, were constantly short of fuel, and were using old tactics that had worked in the 30's.


The other thing was "the bomb" was new technology that we deployed in the Pacific and didn't have in time to drop on Berlin (else we might have - as much as many like to blame racism for why we bombed the Japanese - I don't think it was really).We had no need to drop the bomb on the Germans. We saw them as being rational (relatively) whereas the Japanese saw surrender as an insult to there family (thus the "bonzai" charges). Even after both bombs (little known fact is that after the test fire and the 2 on Japan our nuclear arsenal was at 0 ) we didn't believe that they'd surrender. We were gonna initiate Operation Paperclip which was the transferring of German technology that we had taken over so that we could test it against the Japanese. It was also estimated that we'd lose as many at 1,000,000 troops invading the Japanese home islands.

Slicker
08-20-2006, 07:46 PM
Double post but whatever I don't want to add it to the other one.

Since there aren't enough of them to make a separate thread I'm gonna add in that I saw a trailer for a WWI movie called Flyboys. I literally had chills through the whole thing. The dogfights looked absolutely spectacular and as I said I had chills through the whole thing. I'm gonna definitely see this one and I hope that the trailer doesn't lie.

Tycho
08-20-2006, 08:11 PM
Yes, there are World War One and Flyboys threads started in this forum.

I can't wait for Flyboys myself! It's going to be the best movie of the summer (though it technically won't be summer by that time).

This summer we were "treated to":

X-men 3 (uh...)
Superman Returns (so-so. About what was expected)
Miami Vice (alright. Cool for what it was.)
Clerks 2 (funny as heck -everyone ought to see it)
Pirates of the Carribean 2 (didn't see either of the POTC films yet)
Snakes on a Plane (I don't really have any mother-%$@KN interest)
Click (hey, it's a Sandler film, so I thought I should include it, but haven't seen it yet)

And the subject matter, effects, and true-story to Flyboys will surpass it all!!!

I also think Flags of Our Fathers will be better than the above.

Next summer with:

Spider-Man 3
Trans-Bionicles (it might be good afterall, but my hopes are taking a roller-coaster ride)

I think the movies might be better. Spidey will be good. Whether Michael Bay can make a likeable Optimus Prime come to life, remains to be seen.

With all that being said, Flyboys is going to be the film all remember! (Spidey might make that category as Sam Raimi is very good). But yeah, I can't wait for Flyboys!!!

And James Franco is going to have 2 more very good films under his belt!

Blue2th
08-20-2006, 08:41 PM
If you move on to the Pacific theater I believe I'm out of this thread. For some reason teh Pacific doesn't hold much for me. I know alot about it but it just bores me for some reason. I think it's because it was such a primitive war whereas the European war was very technological in nature and alot of the technology that came from that war is still influencing us.
The Japs themselves were working on an atomic bomb. So they have no call whining about the U.S. bombing them. They also were the forerunners of biological warfare and even deployed germ warfare on the Chinese as a reprisal for helping Doolittles men. They still have not appologized to the Chinese for this or the genocide/ raping of Nanking. The Americans let the lead scientist escape war crimes in exchange for his secrets on biological weapons.

JimJamBonds
08-20-2006, 08:57 PM
Hey Slick, have you heard that the plans for the invasion of Japan were recently found?!?! I heard a quick blurb about it but apparently it was going to be in two stages 1) in Nov of '45 and another big move in March of '46. 60% of the US' armed forces would have been involved in this attack.

OC47150
08-21-2006, 06:54 AM
Battle of the Bulge is probably the most inaccurate WWII ever made. It was made in Spain, using Spanish Army tanks, etc... But it's still fun.

After I got home, I looked at the war movie shelf and noticed a couple of movies I omitted.

* Bridge on the River Kwai. One of William Holden's best.

* Cross of Iron. This was legendary director Sam Peckinpah's only WWII movie. It's the German perspective about the war on the Eastern Front. James Coburn plays the main German soldier. It's considered low-budget and made in Yugoslavia in the 1970s. A new and improved DVD version (widescreen!!) was released earlier this year.

* Stalingrad. This is made by the same guys who did Das Boot. Great German movie. I highly recommend it.

I'm looking forward to Flags of Our Fathers when it comes out.

Slicker
08-21-2006, 01:17 PM
Hey Slick, have you heard that the plans for the invasion of Japan were recently found?!?! I heard a quick blurb about it but apparently it was going to be in two stages 1) in Nov of '45 and another big move in March of '46. 60% of the US' armed forces would have been involved in this attack.Actually I didn't hear that. That's amazing using 60% of the troops. It shows how hard of a fight we would have had there. I've seen shows on History Channel about the invasion and the beaches and whatnot before but they must have been made using eyewitnesses and not the plans.

Tycho
08-21-2006, 01:26 PM
In the field guide that comes on every Band of Brothers DVD, there is a historical outline, invasion maps of the war, military rank listing from private to 5-star General and all the NCOs in between. It's incredibly thorough and paints a very detailed picture of every major development in the war dating back to World War One's closing in 1918 and going all the way through Hiroshima and all the treaties that ended WWII. It even holds election coverage of Churchill, Rooseveldt, Hitler, Mussolini, etc. and Japanese agression in the South Pacific as well as Germany's fight with Russia, its objectives in Africa, even Australia's resistance. It's amazing. These are the best DVDs I've ever explored!

OC47150
08-21-2006, 01:37 PM
Anyone seen "The Eagle Has Landed"?
Is it any good?
I see it in the $5.50 bin at Wal-Mart and have been tempted to buy it, but haven't yet.

It's an enjoyable movie. But the book is better. Lot of stuff left out.

RE: the invasion of Japan. It was going to be done in three waves. The first invasion was planned for the fall of '45 along the southern portion of Japan, and followed by two more in '46. Casualities were expected to be in the millions for the Americans.

Most of the armor units and paratroopers based in Europe were in route to the Pacific when the atomic bombs were dropped.

Several good books written on the subject. WWII magazine did a cover article about the invasion several years ago.

Tycho
08-21-2006, 09:10 PM
I've posted 3 times in a row in the Band of Brothers thread, this series is THAT good. Have most of you not seen this or actually not liked it?

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5334

JimJamBonds
08-21-2006, 10:32 PM
I've posted 3 times in a row in the Band of Brothers thread, this series is THAT good. Have most of you not seen this or actually not liked it?

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5334

I'm only at two in a row so I guess I better head on over there so I can be on par with the standard you set. :D

Blue2th
08-21-2006, 10:36 PM
I just watched Battle of Britain over the weekend. Did you see my cameo appearance? I was that Spitfire pilot all shot up, going down, the pretty air traffic controller saying "Come in Blue2th" just before I splattered my plane all over the beach. :grin:

Tycho
08-21-2006, 11:44 PM
I just watched Battle of Britain over the weekend. Did you see my cameo appearance? I was that Spitfire pilot all shot up, going down, the pretty air traffic controller saying "Come in Blue2th" just before I splattered my plane all over the beach. :grin:


I don't remember that part and I think you're joking as I'm not sure you're old enough to have been in that movie.

Blue2th
08-22-2006, 07:14 AM
I don't remember that part and I think you're joking as I'm not sure you're old enough to have been in that movie.
Actually it was Blue 2. :razz: I wonder how many if any real planes they blew up in Battle of Britain and Tora, Tora, Tora where alot of P-40s are wasted on the ground. Some of the scenes you can tell are not real, but some do look real. These movies were made in the late 60's. Maybe there were plenty of planes around to do that. Now a single WWII plane can be worth millions. Wish these old movies transfered to DVD had extra "the making of" disks.

jonthejedi
08-22-2006, 11:49 AM
The problem is they didn't shoot extra "making of footage" back then for alot of these movies...like they do now. You're lucky to even get a trailer included. Once in awhile, I'll see one pop up on TCM like Soylent Green either before or after the main feature.

Slicker
08-22-2006, 01:05 PM
I know for a fact that in Tora, Tora, Tora they had to make the Zeros. If I'm not mistaken there isn't a single Zero left in existence as the Allies destroyed them all after the war.

Blue2th
08-22-2006, 05:04 PM
I know for a fact that in Tora, Tora, Tora they had to make the Zeros. If I'm not mistaken there isn't a single Zero left in existence as the Allies destroyed them all after the war.
I knew about the Zeros, Kates and Vals all being made from Northrop AT-6 Trainers. I had also heard some of the P-40s on the ground were mock-ups, but they looked very real. Especially the one trying to take off and smashing into the other Warhawks with propeller spinning. The Spitfires and Hurricanes destroyed on the ground in Battle of Britain looked real as well as some of the aircraft destroyed in the air, so I don't know about that one. I guess that's the illusion of movie making. The B-17 Bomber landing with one wheel in Tora Tora Tora was an actual incident that happened when one landing gear failed to come down and they kept filming it and used it for the movie.

Slicker
08-22-2006, 08:50 PM
I knew about the Zeros, Kates and Vals all being made from Northrop AT-6 Trainers. I had also heard some of the P-40s on the ground were mock-ups, but they looked very real. Especially the one trying to take off and smashing into the other Warhawks with propeller spinning. The Spitfires and Hurricanes destroyed on the ground in Battle of Britain looked real as well as some of the aircraft destroyed in the air, so I don't know about that one. I guess that's the illusion of movie making. The B-17 Bomber landing with one wheel in Tora Tora Tora was an actual incident that happened when one landing gear failed to come down and they kept filming it and used it for the movie.Actually, the one that crashed into the others was a complete accident and the people running from it were running for there lives. It wasn't at all planned like that much like the B-17.

Blue2th
08-22-2006, 11:25 PM
Actually, the one that crashed into the others was a complete accident and the people running from it were running for there lives. It wasn't at all planned like that much like the B-17.
Wow! So that was an actual P-40 crashing into the others? I thought it looked real. Anyone get hurt?

Tycho
08-23-2006, 01:42 AM
Don't forget Blue2th's question:

So that was an actual P-40 crashing into the others? I thought it looked real. Anyone get hurt?

Meanwhile, I've moved on to MIDWAY. I'm halfway through it but had to stop because Nancy Pelosi was going to be on Letterman tonight and I'm curious to hear her analysis heading into the midterm elections.

Meanwhile Midway stars Charleton Heston as Captain Garth and Henry Fonda as Admiral Nimitz. A young Mr. Myagi from the Karate Kid movies appears to be in the film as well, along with some other young stars. Captain Esteban from the Federation Starship USS Grisom (The Search for Spock) also seems to be in the picture.

Very notable is that a young JOHN WILLIAMS scored an excellent soundtrack (of course). This one is part of his early work before Star Wars and Jaws, and before all the other successes he's created for himself. "Midway" by John Williams is definitely good. (It's great to have fighters battling in the skies in many of his scores!) This came right before Star Wars as well I think (Midway is 1976, A New Hope is 1977 - so he must have worked on Midway first).

Anyway, some months after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese plan to destroy the rest of the Pacific Fleet. Our carriers were out to see and not hit during Pearl. Admiral Nimitz devises a plan to lure them to try and take Midway Island after the Doolittle Raid and bombing of Tokyo shook the Japanese up a bit. Fake messages are sent to lure a huge Japanese strike force under Admiral Yamamoto to Midway. Nimitz has a chance to destroy the commander responsible for the devastation at Pearl Harbor. But he only has 3 American ships: the USS Enterprise, the USS Hornet, and the badly damaged and delayed USS Yorktown. This is a true story. I've seen the film before, but it's enjoyable for multiple viewings.

Meanwhile, Captain Garth's son, a young fighter pilot and alumi of San Diego State (my own alma matter), is in love with a Japanese girl he met in college, but she was forced into the internment camp when she returned to Hawaii to ask her parents permission to marry him (which they are refusing because they do not want her to marry outside her own race. Japanese are still very xenophobic.) The boy is shipped out to Midway in the middle of all this, while the girl and her family must be uprooted from Honalullu and shipped back to an internment camp in the mainland United States - a security precaution the FBI is taking to prevent any more threats from Japanese inside the United States. It was an unfortunate time of racial profiling at its worst, but I do believe it made sense - although background checks done expediently quick enough might've cleared many folks of Japanese descent's good name - but I still agree with the racial profiling for security reasons.

Well, I'm ready to go back to the battle. I've seen Nancy Pelosi on Letterman now. So I'm offline in a few more posts. But I'm highly recommending MIDWAY to all of you arm-chair admirals out there.

Tycho
08-23-2006, 12:45 PM
The airial combat footage in Midway was nothing close to as good as Pearl Harbor or The Battle of Britain. It does intermingle real life footage from the actual historical battle however. Midway was considered a huge Naval victory, but was fought entirely by Navy fighters launching from American and Japanese aircraft carriers.

The Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet emerged victorious, destroying the Japanese fleet!

Still, a modern redo of that movie with new dazzling airial combat footage could be very cool. Since Pearl Harbor, I don't think there has been great WWII air combat movies, in terms of effects.

I'm watching The Thin Red Line today.

OC47150
08-23-2006, 02:35 PM
Midway is ripe to be remade. Sadly, it probably won't happen.

AMC did a behind the scenes show on Tora, Tora, Tora several years ago (when the network still showed classic movies, not the crap it shows today). During the attack on the airfield in Tora, Tora, Tora, one of the exploding aircraft went in the wrong directioni and the stunt men had to run to get out of the way. That's the footage used in the final film.

The AMC special on The Longest Day did make it to the two 2-disc DVD.

Another good WWII flick I thought of: Sahara. The classic and the remake. Yes, remake. HBO remade Sahara in the mid-90s. It was remade as an action movie, with Jim Belushi in the Bogart role. It follows the original closely, but there are one or two minor changes.

To my knowledge, the remake has never been released on video, but someone on another board was gracious enough to get me a copy. It's a copy of a copy of a copy, etc... The picture quality's not the greatest but still enjoyable.

Tycho
08-23-2006, 03:26 PM
I just finished The Thin Red Line. This movie has many "artsy moments" to a war film as a narrative sort of makes a comment about life between combat sequences.

Nick Nolte is terribly fiercesome as the Colonel! He scares me in several "your men are going to take that hill!" scenes. The music score played for him is startlingly dark and twisted as well.

Sean Penn is quite a likeable sergeant who plays his part well.

John Cusack is a soldier you can't help but feel sympathy for, as the man who's wife leaves him while he is at war. I feel sympathy for any homeless veteran when I think of him returning from Guadalcanal only to get divorced.

This movie is the Battle of Guadalcanal - a key island area the United States had to take to eliminate another Japanese air base and establish one of their own. Japan was a war that required the US to take many islands on their approach to striking distance of Tokyo. It was very costly and didn't go well thus eventually leading President Truman to drop the bombs.

John Caraziel (spelling) reminds me of Stillakid, or the Anti-Stillakid for several of his movies, for whatever reason. A lot of the events in the film are seen through his eyes. He is first a deserter who can't make sense of the war. Then he is reasigned by Penn's character to being a stretcher barrer. Finally, he makes a heroic last stand to save many lives from his company as he faces a battalion of Japanese alone.

A great movie, The Thin Red Line was nominated, and I believe won, a few Oscars. Sean Penn and Nick Nolte were at the forefront of the Academy's mind when it was reviewing this World War 2 masterpiece.

jonthejedi
08-23-2006, 03:33 PM
Tycho...have you picked up restored/recontructed Big Red One yet on DVD??

JimJamBonds
08-23-2006, 03:48 PM
While its a comedy what about 1941?

Slicker
08-23-2006, 04:05 PM
Wow! So that was an actual P-40 crashing into the others? I thought it looked real. Anyone get hurt?
I'm not sure if it was a real P-40 or not but as for injuries I can safely say that no one was hurt in the accident.

Tycho
08-23-2006, 05:31 PM
Tycho...have you picked up restored/recontructed Big Red One yet on DVD??

No, but I saw that movie set at BestBuy the other day. I was a bit curious about it. I can look it up on the IMDB, but anything more you care to share would be "sehr kuhl."

Blue2th
08-23-2006, 06:05 PM
The airial combat footage in Midway was nothing close to as good as Pearl Harbor or The Battle of Britain. It does intermingle real life footage from the actual historical battle however. Midway was considered a huge Naval victory, but was fought entirely by Navy fighters launching from American and Japanese aircraft carriers.

The Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet emerged victorious, destroying the Japanese fleet!

Still, a modern redo of that movie with new dazzling airial combat footage could be very cool. Since Pearl Harbor, I don't think there has been great WWII air combat movies, in terms of effects.

I'm watching The Thin Red Line today.
Though none of the planes needed for the epic Midway exist in the numbers needed, and it might be a crazy idea, I always thought that a CGI or animated version of the movie would be cool. Animation is not just for kids anymore. It could be done accurately.......... I wonder how George Lucas' Red Tails is coming along? It's supposed to be about the Tuskeegee Airmen. Though a version of that story has already been made, I'm sure the dog fights and airial shots would be excellent with Gearge directing, and plenty of P-51 Mustangs are still around for the real flying. It could end up being one of the great WWII movies. I hope so.

Tycho
08-24-2006, 12:19 AM
Windtalkers already had its own thread started, so I posted over there, reviving a 2002 thread by DeadEye nonetheless.

jonthejedi
08-24-2006, 01:20 AM
I think I mentioned something before, Tycho, but here goes again. Big Red One follows the 1st Infantry from Normandy invasion thru Sicily & Africa campaigns to gas camps in Germany. Veteran screen tough guy Lee Marvin(Oscar winner for Cat Ballou also starred in WWII classics Hell In The Pacific & The Dirty Dozen) plays The Sergeant who leads his rifle squad thru some rough enemy action. The war is seen thru the eyes of 4 young men(The 4 Horseman as they are called) that include Luke himself, Mark Hamill(his best performance ever) & Robert Carradine. Very character driven, but some great action, too. The legendary Sam Fuller directed, who was himself in this unit...so it's first hand authentic. I especially liked the Kasserine Pass segment(see also Patton(1970). The film was taken away from the director, as often happens, and chopped up...leaving whole segments on the cutting room floor. It is a real epic, and one of my favorite WWII films. The film actually begins in WWI...but I've said too much!

Tycho
08-24-2006, 02:52 AM
I'm going to have to look into that one. And I'd nearly burnt out on World War movies at this point. (yeah, right)

I'm looking for something about Hiroshima and Nagasaki now - maybe also concerning President Truman and how the decision was arrived at. The United States remains the ONLY nation to ever use nuclear weapons and at the end of WWII. This is quite an interesting topic.

OC47150
08-24-2006, 06:42 AM
I think I mentioned something before, Tycho, but here goes again. Big Red One follows the 1st Infantry from Normandy invasion thru Sicily & Africa campaigns to gas camps in Germany. Veteran screen tough guy Lee Marvin(Oscar winner for Cat Ballou also starred in WWII classics Hell In The Pacific & The Dirty Dozen) plays The Sergeant who leads his rifle squad thru some rough enemy action. The war is seen thru the eyes of 4 young men(The 4 Horseman as they are called) that include Luke himself, Mark Hamill(his best performance ever) & Robert Carradine. Very character driven, but some great action, too. The legendary Sam Fuller directed, who was himself in this unit...so it's first hand authentic. I especially liked the Kasserine Pass segment(see also Patton(1970). The film was taken away from the director, as often happens, and chopped up...leaving whole segments on the cutting room floor. It is a real epic, and one of my favorite WWII films. The film actually begins in WWI...but I've said too much!


The restored BRO made the characters, particular Hamill's, more three-dimensional and gave them more depth.

Another interesting aspect about the restored version is the German character the squad keeps encountering. He's more like a member of the squad in the restored version.

I highly recommend picking it up, Tycho. It's almost a totally different movie.

Blue2th
08-24-2006, 07:17 AM
I'm going to have to look into that one. And I'd nearly burnt out on World War movies at this point. (yeah, right)

I'm looking for something about Hiroshima and Nagasaki now - maybe also concerning President Truman and how the decision was arrived at. The United States remains the ONLY nation to ever use nuclear weapons and at the end of WWII. This is quite an interesting topic.
Well it's not about the decision to drop the bomb, but it's the story of how it was made. Little boy and Fat Man (names of the bombs) staring Paul Newman, John Cusak, Laura Dern, and that guy who used to be Barclay on Star Trek as Dr. Oppenhiemer. I think it was made in the 90's so it's a modern take on the story. Newman plays the General who puts it all together and has to make tough decisions when the scientists realize what a monster they are creating, and Oppenhiemer's suspected Communist ties. Even an accident with radiation (pretty gross) I enjoyed this well made flick.

JimJamBonds
08-24-2006, 07:17 AM
I watched Enemy at the Gates last night...... boy do I wish I hadn't. I nominate EATG's story as taking even longer to unfold then Memphis Bell's.

OC47150
08-24-2006, 07:53 AM
I watched Enemy at the Gates last night...... boy do I wish I hadn't. I nominate EATG's story as taking even longer to unfold then Memphis Bell's.

EATG is similar to a book called War of the Rats. Same characters, same plot. Don't think the book was acknowledged as a source for the movie, though.

There is a historical account of Stalingrad called Enemy at the Gates but it's nothing like the movie.

Rocketboy
08-24-2006, 09:20 AM
I watched Enemy at the Gates last night...... boy do I wish I hadn't. I nominate EATG's story as taking even longer to unfold then Memphis Bell's.Yeah, it can be a bit slow at times and being highly fictionalized, but I love Enemy at the Gates. Such a good movie.


EATG is similar to a book called War of the Rats. Same characters, same plot. Don't think the book was acknowledged as a source for the movie, though.

There is a historical account of Stalingrad called Enemy at the Gates but it's nothing like the movie.Enemy at the Gates did take it's name from the book of the same name, even though that part of the book was only 2 or 3 pages long.

Never heard of War of the Rats. I'll have to look it up pretty soon.

jonthejedi
08-24-2006, 11:53 AM
Tycho...if memory serves, there was a TV movie called Enola Gay about the Japan atom bomb droppings. Can anyone else confirm this. If true, I'm not sure it was ever on DVD or video.

OC47150
08-24-2006, 12:09 PM
Tycho...if memory serves, there was a TV movie called Enola Gay about the Japan atom bomb droppings. Can anyone else confirm this. If true, I'm not sure it was ever on DVD or video.

It's true. It came out in the late 70s or early 80s. Patrick Duffy was Paul Tibbets, and Billy Crystal was a crew member.

If I remember correctly, it was more about the men and the events leading up to August '45 than the actual mission. The bombing aspect was at the end.

Slicker
08-24-2006, 01:50 PM
I'm going to have to look into that one. And I'd nearly burnt out on World War movies at this point. (yeah, right)

I'm looking for something about Hiroshima and Nagasaki now - maybe also concerning President Truman and how the decision was arrived at. The United States remains the ONLY nation to ever use nuclear weapons and at the end of WWII. This is quite an interesting topic.Have you watched Fat Man and Little Boy yet? It mainly centers around the making of the bomb but it's quite interesting. I think one of the main stars is John Cusack.

Tycho
08-24-2006, 02:12 PM
Have you watched Fat Man and Little Boy yet? It mainly centers around the making of the bomb but it's quite interesting. I think one of the main stars is John Cusack.

I'm going to order that on DVD at the library, then watch it, and buy it if I like it.

As for The Big Red One? I think I have to buy it at BestBuy to get the latest version - I saw it there myself when I was looking through the war movies. But I take the recommendations from you guys seriously, so it will be on my "to watch list." This WWII thread has been one of the best resources with the most participants in the whole movie forum.

Rocketboy
08-25-2006, 01:15 PM
Not if these were mentioned yet:
The Diary of Anne Frank and
Hart's War - Bruce Willis and Collin Ferell in the world's nicest prison camp.

Blue2th
08-25-2006, 04:42 PM
Hart's War is a good choice Rocketboy. A murder mystery within the war. With a good story that keeps you guessing till the end. Shows a scene of a Red Tail P-51 Mustang crashing, and later the black pilot becomes part of the plot. I recommend this movie also.

Rocketboy
08-25-2006, 09:52 PM
Oh, I didn't say I recommended it. I just mentioned it because it was a WWII movie. ;)

Blue2th
08-26-2006, 07:09 AM
Whatever, I appologize for implying that you recommend Hart's War. It is a good movie. I recommend it then. (strike that word "also" from my last post) I could have just waited a few posts, then mentioned the movie and give you no credit. It happens (here) It's no big deal. ;)