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View Full Version : The clones know Palpatine is a Sith?



Battle Droid
09-11-2006, 06:56 PM
After he gives all the commanders Order 66, they say "Yes my Lord."

As in Lord Sidious, cause if they didn't wouldn't they say "Yes Supreme Chancellor."

Luuuuuuke
09-11-2006, 10:40 PM
I don't know if the clones knew Palpatine was a sith/Sidious per se. But I think they clearly answered to Sidious and knew he was a sith.

The clones recognized Palpatine in his Lord Sidious form. Only the "bad" guys ever saw Palpatine in this form, right? If the clones were unfamiliar with Sidious, wouldn't they have looked at this robed, dark figure and said, "WTF"?

They also obviously knew what Order 66 was and had been expecting it. So when Palpatine in Sidious form appears and gives them the order, it's kind of a sign they know who is really pulling the strings. The fact they address him as "my lord" is not as persuasive by itself, but taken together, I think it all adds up to support your theory that the clones knew something.

El Chuxter
09-11-2006, 10:50 PM
They didn't question who gave the order. It was a top secret order on a closed channel accessible only to the chief of state. And are you suggesting that anyone wouldn't recognize Palpatine just because he pulled his hood up?

Luuuuuuke
09-11-2006, 11:08 PM
Palpatine and Sidious are pretty different, both in appearance and speech--let alone when Sidious is usually only seen via grainy holographic imagines.

I don't know about Battle Droid, but to me it's not apparent they ascribe the order to Palpatine. They ascribe it to a robed figure who obviously demands unquestioned loyalty. But I hesitate to say the clones made the connection between the chancellor and the Sith lord.

But I don't think it was a question of the clone commanders simply accepting orders without having a clue about who was giving the order. I think they were familiar with the robed figure. When Sidious address Cody by his name, it was a small sign, to me, that Cody had seen this figure before and knew something was imminent.

JimJamBonds
09-12-2006, 01:16 AM
Would the clones even care that Palpy is a Sith? I doubt it, they are supposed to answer to him so that is about that.

stillakid
09-12-2006, 04:18 AM
Would the clones even care that Palpy is a Sith? I doubt it, they are supposed to answer to him so that is about that.

That's what I was going to say. I don't think they gave a sh##. Palpy could be a Oscar Wilde reading Prom Dress Wearing Nancy Boy and they would still do what he said.

darthvyn
09-12-2006, 01:38 PM
the way i see it the "order 66" was a subliminal trigger that the clones were imprinted with, either genetically or hypnotically through training... they could have been subliminally taught that the person that gives "order 66" is their ultimate commander. whether it was also a voice-recognition thing remains to be seen - could anyone have said "order 66" and gotten the same reaction? or was it just palpy's voice in conjunction with the "attack word"?

mabudonicus
09-12-2006, 05:32 PM
Edit- missed Vinsant's post somehow, I DO believe he's saying the exact same thing.... still gonna post it tho :beard:

This goes bakc to the "hardwired command" discussion, if it indeed WAS hardwired, then basically it was like a switch that changed everything, and I think this angle makes it pretty clear that the order must have been hidden deep and awaiting a signal- sort of like hypnosis, only different

But it is odd, I never really thought about it- tho the whole "M'lord" thing could just be because the clones are nothing more than slaves and thus their sense of protocol was geared to accept anyone who was NOT a clone as a superior- think C3PO using the term "Master Luke" and it getting on Luke's nerves, seems to make sense to me&

2-1B
09-12-2006, 07:46 PM
do the clones know that mabudon is an accomplished 'medical droid action figure documentary' film maker? :confused:

bobafrett
09-12-2006, 10:07 PM
There was a Charles Bronson film that I saw many years ago, and ordinary people were programmed that if they got a phone call with a part of a poem "Miles to go before I sleep" was part of that poem, it would put them in a hypnotic state. They would then go out and kill someone, or do whatever assignment they had been programmed to carry out.

This "Order 66" reminds me of just that.

Darth Jax
09-12-2006, 10:34 PM
There was a Charles Bronson film that I saw many years ago, and ordinary people were programmed that if they got a phone call with a part of a poem "Miles to go before I sleep" was part of that poem, it would put them in a hypnotic state. They would then go out and kill someone, or do whatever assignment they had been programmed to carry out.

This "Order 66" reminds me of just that.

was there any break dance fighting in the movie?

bobafrett
09-13-2006, 02:39 AM
was there any break dance fighting in the movie?


Maybe, I think it came out before break dancing though, so probably not. :D

JediTricks
09-13-2006, 09:15 PM
Telefon - starring a man named after a street!

dr_evazan22
09-15-2006, 10:56 AM
... And are you suggesting that anyone wouldn't recognize Palpatine just because he pulled his hood up?

Lois Lane, et al, never figured out that Clark was Superman. all he did was put on glasses.

Bel-Cam Jos
09-15-2006, 09:53 PM
Does this behavior "prove" that Sidious ordered the clone army from the Kaminoans, then? Maybe Palpatine shared with the clone commanders his "doubts" about the Jedis' loyalty, and that they would take the route to 66 (so kick me... I wanted a BAD pun in this reply :o ) if he should ever inform them of such mutany.

2-1B
09-15-2006, 11:10 PM
I still think Dooku ordered the Clones.

Luuuuuuke
09-16-2006, 10:45 AM
I still think Dooku ordered the Clones.

that many clones--it had to be Jedi Master Sal.

mabudonicus
09-16-2006, 10:51 AM
LMAO good one, Sir, that explains a LOT :beard:&

JediTricks
09-16-2006, 04:54 PM
I still think Dooku ordered the Clones.He did, Lucas says so in the ROTS DVD commentary, Lucas said it was "obviously" Dooku using the name Sifo Dyas to order the clones.

Luuuuuuke
09-16-2006, 10:27 PM
He did, Lucas says so in the ROTS DVD commentary, Lucas said it was "obviously" Dooku using the name Sifo Dyas to order the clones.

Still, i think it's interesting that if you take out the "fo" part of that name, it spells "Sidyas." Which is basically Sidious. Maybe Dooku was being playful with the fictional name, giving a hint about who he was ordering the clones for.

JediTricks
09-17-2006, 03:50 AM
In the script, it's "Sido-dyas" which is even more Sidious.

Bel-Cam Jos
09-17-2006, 11:43 AM
In the script, it's "Sido-dyas" which is even more Sidious.So, Lucas put the "FO" in sidious? How insidious of him! One thing, this sure paints the clones in a just-following-orders mode, taking away any trace of humanity. For me, that lessens their abilities and reduces any pity I might have had for them. In that regard, they are "more machine than man." :( Wonder if that's some more social-political commentary by Lucas about leaders' views on sending soldiers out to war (don't turn this thread into a Rancor Pit-esque debate, please).

El Chuxter
09-17-2006, 01:48 PM
It's funny that Lucas himself says it was obviously Dooku, but the EU has created a whole backstory for his old friend, Master Sifo-Dyas.

2-1B
09-17-2006, 07:03 PM
What do you mean Chux, I thought Dooku ordered under the name of Sifo-Dyas...so I don't see how the stories couldn't work together ? :confused:

Ohhhhhhh, or maybe you mean that Sifo actually DID order the Clones in the EU ?

Maybe that's where you're going, in which case I see your point. :)

Come to think of it, do I remember the ROTS novel saying that Sifo actually did order the Clones, as if he was duped or whatever and then killed? If so, that was dumb, they should have had Dooku kill Sifo and then impersonate him.

Or something. lol

El Chuxter
09-17-2006, 07:40 PM
In EU, Master Sifo-Dyas acted without the approval of the Council to order the clones. He confided in his friend Dooku that he felt drastic measures were necessary to combat the Sith. Of course, Dooku was by this point well along his way to becoming a Sith himself. Dooku's final test was to kill Sifo-Dyas, and he then met with the Kaminoans using Sifo-Dyas' name (they'd never actually seen him) to order the clones.

Of course, the SW Visionaries graphic novel has a really weird scene where Sifo-Dyas is in suspended animation and Dooku has to give or take a blood transfusion from him. But that book was never considered canon, and the scene isn't explained and makes absolutely no sense, so meh.

Hey, it's not as dumb as Dengar being Boba's best man or Anakin's grandson becoming the first of a new generation of Sith Lords, is it?

pbarnard
09-17-2006, 08:23 PM
In EU, Master Sifo-Dyas acted without the approval of the Council to order the clones. He confided in his friend Dooku that he felt drastic measures were necessary to combat the Sith. Of course, Dooku was by this point well along his way to becoming a Sith himself. Dooku's final test was to kill Sifo-Dyas, and he then met with the Kaminoans using Sifo-Dyas' name (they'd never actually seen him) to order the clones.

Except in Jango Fett: Open Seaons, Jango is recruited directly by Dooku using the Darth Tyranus title. What's your source for this?

El Chuxter
09-17-2006, 09:06 PM
Jango was the template, not the one who placed the order. His story's in Open Seasons and in the Bounty Hunter video game. The stuff about Dooku and Sifo-Dyas is mainly from Labyrinth of Evil.

scruffziller
09-18-2006, 06:50 AM
Does this also go for the Imperial Officers that called him Lord Vader.

pbarnard
09-18-2006, 01:09 PM
Does this also go for the Imperial Officers that called him Lord Vader.
I don't think it's a hidden fact Vader is a Sith Lord. The Empire pretty much broadcasts that he's the last legitimate Jedi because he became a Sith Lord, but kept the Emperor's force using a secret which was known only to the highest ranks or spoken as rumors. But it was also justified that because he was the Emperor, he was entitled to more power/rights than the rest.

JediTricks
09-18-2006, 05:13 PM
So, Lucas put the "FO" in sidious? How insidious of him! One thing, this sure paints the clones in a just-following-orders mode, taking away any trace of humanity. For me, that lessens their abilities and reduces any pity I might have had for them. In that regard, they are "more machine than man." :( Wonder if that's some more social-political commentary by Lucas about leaders' views on sending soldiers out to war (don't turn this thread into a Rancor Pit-esque debate, please).I always felt it was Lucas' way of making the heroes' killing of these soldiers more morally-fair since now they're not people, they're just robots (literally in TPM). It also has the side-effect of turning the populace's role in the Empire from an active one that - duped or not - supported Palpatine's actions and willingly joined the Imperial ranks, into a passive role where they just sit back and let clone/machines do all the killing labor and Palpatine makes all the decisions and fulfils all the machinations to turn him into an emperor by himself.


It's funny that Lucas himself says it was obviously Dooku, but the EU has created a whole backstory for his old friend, Master Sifo-Dyas.Is that right? I hadn't heard that. Yeah, Lucas felt it was "obvious", when I heard that I got all mad as hell about it - it's obvious to him because he thought it up and it lived in his head, but on the screen he doesn't do the job of laying the groundwork to explain it, and actually goes out of his way to add mystery to it without followup.