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View Full Version : Obi-Wan has the best lightsaber fights through all 6 movies!



Tycho
09-13-2006, 07:52 AM
Obi-Wan Kenobi faces:

Darth Maul
Jango Fett
Darth Tyranus (twice)
General Grievous
Darth Vader (twice)

Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader faces:

Darth Tyranus (twice)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (twice)
Luke Skywalker (twice)

Mace Windu faces:

Jango Fett
Darth Sidious

Master Yoda faces:

Darth Tyranus
Darth Sidious

Luke Skywalker faces:

Darth Vader (twice)

decadentdave
09-13-2006, 09:00 AM
Yeah, YOUNG Obi-Wan does but, uh... OLD Obi-Wan seems to have a rather decrepit fight against Darth in A New Hope. That is one lightsaber duel I wouldn't mind seeing Lucas "upgrade" with some new CGI effects to make it more kinetic with the Prequels.

Rocketboy
09-13-2006, 09:17 AM
Also, Obi-Wan has the best Win-Loss record.

Obi-Wan 5-2
Anakin 3-3
Mace 1-1
Yoda 1-1
Luke 1-1

JimJamBonds
09-13-2006, 10:10 AM
Yeah, YOUNG Obi-Wan does but, uh... OLD Obi-Wan seems to have a rather decrepit fight against Darth in A New Hope. That is one lightsaber duel I wouldn't mind seeing Lucas "upgrade" with some new CGI effects to make it more kinetic with the Prequels.

Yeah that fight is BRUTAL!!! There is a better saber fight in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

Luuuuuuke
09-13-2006, 10:27 AM
Also, Obi-Wan has the best Win-Loss record.

Obi-Wan 5-2
Anakin 3-3
Mace 1-1
Yoda 1-1
Luke 1-1

I wouldn't say Mace lost to Darth Sidious in a box-scoring sense. (I mean he did because Anakin sliced his hand and Sidious flung him to his death--but without his hand, either Anakin or Sidious could have killed him really). Actually, Mace beat Sidious in the actual fight(although you always wonder whether Sidious let him). And I'm not sure Yoda lost to Sidious. Both were knocked off their perches and that's how it ended; I guess you can say Yoda lost because he said he "failed". But then again, Sidious lost because he wanted to kill Yoda, and the old Jedi got away.

Anyway, I agree with Tycho, sort of; Obi Wan had more good duels, but pound-for-pound, I think Anakin/Darth Vader had better ones. His fight in Empire with Luke was, as Billy Dee Williams might say, "van-tastic!"

Rocketboy
09-13-2006, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't say Mace lost to Darth Sidious in a box-scoring sense. (I mean he did because Anakin sliced his hand and Sidious flung him to his death--but without his hand, either Anakin or Sidious could have killed him really). Actually, Mace beat Sidious in the actual fight(although you always wonder whether Sidious let him). And I'm not sure Yoda lost to Sidious. Both were knocked off their perches and that's how it ended; I guess you can say Yoda lost because he said he "failed". But then again, Sidious lost because he wanted to kill Yoda, and the old Jedi got away.
True, but in the deadly fights I was only counting the one that walked away.

JEDIpartner
09-13-2006, 12:54 PM
Obi-Wan and Vader's fight in A New Hope is pants. It could be done so much better than the sad little stand-off that it is. Even Luke and Vader's fights were a bit more exciting than that one. I don't buy the whole "Well, Obi-Wan is old and Vader's mechanical" thing. Yoda was pretty old by the time the battle of Geonosis came around and he kicked some serious butt!!

Slicker
09-13-2006, 04:54 PM
True, but in the deadly fights I was only counting the one that walked away.Ok. I was gonna argue a couple of them, especially the ANH Obers fight and the Mace fight.

JimJamBonds
09-13-2006, 11:17 PM
True, but in the deadly fights I was only counting the one that walked away.

Aren't all the fights "deadly"/have that purpose to at least one of the fighters?

2-1B
09-14-2006, 05:54 AM
Not if you count the remote ball things vs. Luke on the Falcon and vs. the Bear Clan in Yoda's Neverland apartment on Coruscant.

JimJamBonds
09-14-2006, 08:27 AM
Not if you count the remote ball things vs. Luke on the Falcon and vs. the Bear Clan in Yoda's Neverland apartment on Coruscant.

Not much of a fight with the ball thing winning both matches.

Droid
09-14-2006, 08:33 AM
I haven't watched one right after the other, but does anyone know if Lucas sped up the Obi-wan/Vader fight in A New Hope for the DVD release? It seems faster to me.

Luuuuuuke
09-14-2006, 04:20 PM
Obi-Wan and Vader's fight in A New Hope is pants. It could be done so much better than the sad little stand-off that it is. Even Luke and Vader's fights were a bit more exciting than that one. I don't buy the whole "Well, Obi-Wan is old and Vader's mechanical" thing. Yoda was pretty old by the time the battle of Geonosis came around and he kicked some serious butt!!

In retrospect, if Lucas had made the movies in chronological order the fights would have been better. As great as Alec Guinness is--and he's an incredible actor--I can't shake the feeling he's too old for Obi Wan(after having watched the end of Episode III at least).

The result is that the Darth Vader/Obi Wan duel in the hangar looks really dull now. It's hard to believe that these are the two Jedis who went balls out to kill each other in Episode III.

I always rationalize that fight by saying to myself that they probably just didn't really want to fight each other after so many years. They were hesitant.

Tycho
09-14-2006, 05:13 PM
I have to agree with some of the above. By the ages, Obi-Wan was:

24 in TPM
34 in AOTC
37 in ROTS
56 in ANH

Now Qui-Gon was supposed to be about 60 in TPM and Liam Neeson was in quite great shape to take on Darth Maul, and younger looking than Alec Guiness comparatively was for ANH. (I'm not sure how old Liam was in 1998 when they filmed.)

You can chalk some of it up to Obi-Wan aged a lot living for 19 years in the middle of a desert wasteland and Vader being a life-support suited mechanical parapallegic, but Vader fought much harder against Luke in ESB it seems. (Luke was reckless, but he was fast and Vader had to be to counter him).

Now there are some periods of faster moves in the ANH fight - when Obi-Wan spins and when they switch positions in front of the hanger doors. But it's not the typical Obi-Wan "flashy style." You assume that if Qui-Gon was capable of it at an even supposedly older age, than Obi-Wan was at 56.

Let's look at Qui-Gon's age.

In the "official account of his character," Lucasfilm allows the Expanded Universe. That being said, he trained and failed with Xanatos before Obi-Wan was apprenticed to him at about 13 years of age. (Before then, most younglings were instructed by Yoda amongst others, so Stillakid can shut up about "the Jedi Master who instructed me.")

If Obi-Wan was 13 when he became Qui-Gon's apprentice, Qui-Gon was 49 years old at the start of the Jedi Apprentice books.

If Qui-Gon trained Xanatos for nearly 11 years or so, he would have to have been 38 at the oldest when he took on Xanatos. However, if you read the books, you know Qui-Gon refused to take another Padawan because of his loss of one to the Dark Side (Xanatos did not become a Sith, but a Dark Jedi doing his own thing, uninvolved with the Sith).

So we could guestimate that Qui-Gon was roughly 33 or 30 when he took on Xanatos as his first apprentice.

Giving Qui-Gon the benefit of the doubt, (that he was younger than 60 in TPM and this is an error in some reference materials), we have about 8 years or so (let's make it 10 even) to play with Qui-Gon's age. That means that the youngest Qui-Gon might have been when he took Xanatos was 28 perhaps.

Obi-Wan, by contrast, was 24 when he inherited a 9 year old Anakin. (Too young for the small age difference, and perhaps Obi-Wan's inexperience - not that there's evidence he was inexperienced).

But say Qui-Gon was 28 when he took Xanatos. The pupil would have been 13, by the Jedi Code, so Xanatos' betrayal would have happened when Xanatos was about 24 and Qui-Gon 39 years old. Then Qui-Gon spent at least 5 years refusing a new Padawan and rarely coming back to the Temple - ashamed of his failure. So he would be 44 at the youngest when he could have taken on Obi-Wan. That's only a 5 year difference than we arrived at before.

So Qui-Gon was about 55 or so when Darth Maul killed him (at Qui-Gon's youngest possible age).

If Obi-Wan is 56 in ANH, yeah, you have a nice parallel between the Jedi Masters, however, Alec Guiness seems like he's 70 years old by comparison. (I'm not sure of Alec Guiness' actual age in 1976.)

Now I love Alec Guiness' acting and what he brought to "Old Ben" in the classic trilogy (I thought they were going to explain why he goes by 'Ben' in ROTS! Why not 'Marlin' or something?) [I know: "We named the TaunTaun Ben..." - but then seriously, he could have called himself Boga, hehe].

But did Lucas flub-up?

1) By casting Ewan McGreggor who was too young for Obi-Wan, and not having made him older? (Sorry, I like the casting and how the story worked out)

2) By casting Alec Guiness way-back-when? (Again, no - I like the casting and Guiness' performance is one of the best in Star Wars.)

So we have to finally conclude that

a) the desert REALLY, REALLY, REALLY ages a 56 year old man and healthcare isn't what it is in the Core Worlds when you're out on the Outer Rim.

b) a parapallegic will fight like a parapallegic when confronted with an old man, but must draw a lot of inner strength when faced with a wild, incestuous son who's been kissing his own sister.

Bacta Beast
09-14-2006, 06:15 PM
Not if you count the remote ball things vs. Luke on the Falcon and vs. the Bear Clan in Yoda's Neverland apartment on Coruscant.

"Yoda's Neverland Ranch"!!!!!!!!! God that's good stuff!!!!! It would make a sweeet band name!!!

I don't think it's fair enough credit is given Luke's duels with Vader. I would much rather watch either one of them than the first Count Dooku vs. Anakin, I'm pretty much bitter at how poorly that duel was portrayed! I was fairly dissappointed in the big Obi-Wan vs Anakin fight also. Overall, in my opinion, Obi-Wan vs. Maul is by far and away the best of any of the duels. That one was art! It was poetry!!!

Jayspawn
09-17-2006, 11:07 AM
Does it say anywhere how old Obi-Wan is in TPM? I dont think George sped up Ben and Darth's fight scene in ANH. I watched it objectivly the other night -it is a very good fight. Also consider that Vader would want to be cautious, as their last fight didnt end so well for him.

If Qui-Gon is about the age of 60, he would still be in good shape as a practicer of the force and genuinly active person.

Luuuuuuke
09-17-2006, 11:10 AM
I was always a big fan of the Luke/Vader duel in Empire. Especially the last few moments, beginning where Vader pops up in that "tunnel" and just starts going nuts. I love the way they just swing at each other as Luke strikes Vader in the arm and the way Vader got ****ed and just said, "F it! I don't care if you're my son, I'm done #%#@ playing around!":D Hacks his hand off... Unbelievable fight.

Tycho
09-17-2006, 11:37 AM
Yeah, the Empire fight had a lot of Darth Vader's personality fused into it, huh?

I liked the way you described that Luuuuke. It makes me want to watch ESB again.

Jayspawn, I believe Obi-Wan's age was revealed in the novelization to TPM and on the official Star Wars website. There might be some discrepancy as to whether he was 24 or 25, but it's generally conceived that he's 15 years older than Anakin, who was 9 in TPM. The idea there being that he is really too young to have a nearly adolescent child, let alone one who is his Jedi apprentice perhaps.

Anyway, had he been 70 in ANH, he would have been 38 in TPM, and that would have been totally implausable. Besides, Ewan was around 27 when he was cast for Obi-Wan in the first prequel.

stillakid
09-17-2006, 12:00 PM
I always rationalize that fight by saying to myself that they probably just didn't really want to fight each other after so many years. They were hesitant.

I'd buy that argument if their fight came after ESB. Reason being, when we first meet the OT Vader in ANH, he's much more like Maul in that he is just an angry guy with no discernable motivation beyond just crushing the Rebellion. It's after he learns that he has a son that we sense that he has been doing some reflecting upon his own life and his own motivations. Naturally, he is conflicted which is what the entire climax brings to the table, but prior to the knowledge (brought by spies?) that it was a Skywalker who blew up the Death Star, Vader had no reason to be hesitant about killing anyone, much less Obi Wan. If anything, he should have been MORE po'd the moment he "sensed something" in the hangar bay, to the point where he would have gone on board himself to find the guy who cut off his limbs,condemned him to a life in the suit, and took his girl.

But that's indicative of the disconnect between the Prequels and the OT trilogy. Character motivations, particularly that of Anakin/Vader just don't coincide on any level. The Prequel Anakin/Vader is a whiny bipolar brat who contradicts his own motivations from scene to scene. The OT Vader was pretty cut and dried...a mysterious past in ANH followed by visible internal conflict as his own son fights to save his father's soul.

The Prequel Vader would have been angry to the point of recklessness had he sensed Obi Wan in the Death Star but that's not what we saw.

Tycho
09-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Vader was 19 years older by ANH (41 years old) and may have grown up from his impetuous youth by then.

stillakid
09-17-2006, 12:30 PM
Vader was 19 years older by ANH (41 years old) and may have grown up from his impetuous youth by then.

Anakin's last words to Obi Wan as he lay there burning to death were "I hate you!"

Anakin's last memories of his "old" life were of Obi Wan standing there with Padme.

He had rage for Obi Wan (misdirected as it was). One would think that even after all those years, the moment Vader "sensed" Obi Wan on the Falcon, he would have done more than calmly utter to himself:

"I sense something. A presence I've not felt since....."

Then he runs off to tell the boss, a little more edge to his voice, but far from rage.

"He is here."

No, I don't buy it. Anakin had rage for Obi Wan and even years don't remove that sting. The moment he knew that the old man was on board, he would've gone on the ship himself immediately. He did appear to have the greater "good" in mind by using the Princess as bait to get a homing beacon on board the Falcon, but even emotional rage trumps reason. And that's exactly the character which was "established" by the Prequels....Anakin being a guy who allowed his emotions to run unchecked against all logic. The irony is that if we were to accept that the Prequel Anakin and the OT Anakin were the same guy, OT Anakin in ANH would prove to be an even better Jedi than he should have been...that being that he has learned to control his emotions for the greater cause.

Those are just two distinct characters...Prequel Ani and Postquel Ani...George f'd up. Is there a CG "fix" for that?

Blue2th
09-17-2006, 12:39 PM
Well, I still like Obi-Wan's pose when he points to Grievous with one hand, hair flopping in his face, lightsaber raised, on the Invisible Hand and on Utapau, just before he crushes those Bodyguards with the force. Some of you think it's stupid, but I think he's suave! :yes:

stillakid
09-17-2006, 01:19 PM
Well, I still like Obi-Wan's pose when he points to Grievous with one hand, hair flopping in his face, lightsaber raised, on the Invisible Hand and on Utapau, just before he crushes those Bodyguards with the force. Some of you think it's stupid, but I think he's suave! :yes:

Any scene with Grievous is cool. :)