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View Full Version : To heck with the stupid astronomers



El Chuxter
09-13-2006, 11:12 PM
Pluto will always be a planet, and anyone who disagrees with me can kiss my butt.

Stupid moron astronomer-wannabes, having to do something to get in the news because they're too damned incompetent to actually accomplish anything.

Viva Pluto!!

JetsAndHeels
09-13-2006, 11:31 PM
Yeah, tell me about it.

They thought they had discovered some remnants of Krypton but that was a bust too.
Damn them.

JimJamBonds
09-13-2006, 11:34 PM
Ehhh! I don't think its anything to get your undies in a bundle, this will go back and forth now for who knows how long.

Phantom-like Menace
09-13-2006, 11:46 PM
I'll pass on the butt kissing, but Pluto is lucky not to be known as simply a Kuiper Belt Object. I suppose thinking about it, I'm happy with the idea of dwarf planets. Hydrostatic equilibrium seems like a good marker as long as it is not a satellite. However, given the nature of their orbit, I'd say Charon is not a satellite but one of two dwarf planets in a dwarf binary system.

Downgrading Pluto but upgrading Charon makes it even right?:razz:

decadentdave
09-14-2006, 12:38 AM
What about Uranus? :D

figrin bran
09-14-2006, 12:51 AM
Chux, did you have ancestors in the Earth is Flat Society? :p

LusiferSam
09-14-2006, 12:54 AM
I would have started a while ago, but I assumed nobody here really cared. With that said, I think the IAU mostly made the right decision. This pot has been boiling since about 1992 when the first KDOs starting showing and really came to a head when the first big KBOs were found. combine that with the fact the that Pluto has a very eccentric orbit that takes it out of the plane of the Solar System and you got a yourself a dwarf planet (I would have preferred minor planet, but oh well).

As I always ask people who ask me about, "How does really affect you and your enjoyment of astronomy?" Most can't answer this and the few that can sound like an idiot. All it does is add a new subgroup to the Solar System. So Earth, Mars, Venus and Mercury are terrestrial or rocky Planets. Jupiter and Saturn are the gas giants and Uranus and Neptune are the ice giants. Pluto, Ceres, and Eris are dwarf planet with Sedna, Orcus, and Quaoar as likely candidates.

Phantom-like Menace
09-14-2006, 12:56 AM
What about Uranus? :D

I hear there is kissing involved, so we might not want to know. Though, can we all agree this thread officially has hit its quota of derriere talk?

decadentdave
09-14-2006, 03:52 AM
But isn't that what you said, Chux? That if we disagreed we could kiss Uranus? ;)

2-1B
09-14-2006, 05:58 AM
If these stargazers can't agree on what is or isn't a planet, why the hell was I forced to memorize all the "planets" in school when I was a kid ? :rolleyes:

"You're name will be COSMOS."
-- that kid on The Simpsons --

Kidhuman
09-14-2006, 06:14 AM
What is my very educated mother going to show us now?&

scruffziller
09-14-2006, 07:13 AM
Yea, when I read that, I thought "WHY????". There wasn't any "stellar" (no pun intended) evidence to justify saying Pluto is no longer a planet

Darth Jax
09-14-2006, 07:30 AM
the 2 skinnee J's said it all Pluto is a Planet (http://www.2sj.com/)

El Chuxter
09-14-2006, 08:43 AM
My undies aren't in a bunch, but what's the point? Seriously? It's been called a planet for almost a century, and taught as such in schools, so just freaking leave it. My daughter is going to go to school, come home, watch cartoons, and ask why Daffy Duck is a retard who's calling Pluto a planet. Anything that results in people thinking Daffy Duck is retarded has to be bad.

It just really, to me, reeks of the astronomers saying, "Hmm, there are no more celestial bodies that can be easily discovered. How else can we get in the news?"

JimJamBonds
09-14-2006, 11:18 AM
It just really, to me, reeks of the astronomers saying, "Hmm, there are no more celestial bodies that can be easily discovered. How else can we get in the news?"

I'll more or less agree with that. Who knew that astronomers are the new media wh#%es? lol

pbarnard
09-14-2006, 03:43 PM
It's funny to watch this as a neuroscience grad student. This sort of thing happens all the time in just about every field. Something comes along forces everyone to rethink, big convention, get drunk, vote on some things, get drunk again, go home because there's no more alcohol.

Does it really affect anyone? Not outside those who directly study it, it may affect their money situation.

Let's look at things that have changed in science over the past century: evolution has been changed to be a complicated series of events that don't just happen at the molecular, cellular, histological, organism, and ecological levels when before it was just simply survival of those best able to adapt. Even more fundamental is that an biology class is now nothing more than applied organic chemistry. Chemistry has gone from the simple Bohr "solar system" atom to quantum mechanic series of probability density functions. My own field is in a bit of a revolution because now its clear the astrocytes and microglia has as much to do with synapases forming between neurons and modulating if not controling when neurotransmitters are released if not releasing some non-traditional neurotransmitters themselves.

There's one truth to science. As the knowledge base grows, things change and what you learned 5-10+ years ago, is obsolete. Definitions and classifications have to be re-examined, paradigms shifted. Blah blah blah.

LusiferSam
09-14-2006, 04:21 PM
It's funny to watch this as a neuroscience grad student.

If you think it's funny as a neuroscience grad student you should try it as an astrophysics grad student. I don't work on any sort of planetary science topics (most planet are pretty boring X-Ray sources) but it's pretty close to my field.

pbarnard
09-14-2006, 09:30 PM
It's all funny. Course, it's too late but you probably will know who this is, I'd be interested to hear what Van Allen, who just died recently, has to say about all this.

JediTricks
09-14-2006, 10:13 PM
Yes, by all means, let's all throw a fit over something completely unimportant that has no bearing on us whatsoever that we can't even see with the human eye and we made up less than 100 years ago anyway, that'll solve all the world's problems! (it's funny if you read it in Farnsworth's voice)

Science isn't supposed to stick its head in the sand because popular entertainment might look like they got it wrong even though popular entertainment often gets facts wrong and presents incorrect theories of burgeoning scientific and future events. Oh no, Daffy Duck looks dated because he made a reference to Pluto being a planet! Guess what, Daffy Duck looks dated because he makes references to brands of shaving cream that haven't been made since your grandparents were in high school. You know why they downgraded Pluto? Because "The Adventures of Pluto Nash" tanked at the box office. :p

2-1B
09-14-2006, 10:30 PM
JT does have a point there about Nash.

El Chuxter
09-14-2006, 10:33 PM
Science isn't supposed to stick its head in the sand because popular entertainment might look like they got it wrong even though popular entertainment often gets facts wrong and presents incorrect theories of burgeoning scientific and future events. Oh no, Daffy Duck looks dated because he made a reference to Pluto being a planet! Guess what, Daffy Duck looks dated because he makes references to brands of shaving cream that haven't been made since your grandparents were in high school.

You Daffy Duck hating Doombot. :mad::mad::mad:

2-1B
09-14-2006, 10:35 PM
I see you don't take up for Pluto Nash, Chux...:(

JediTricks
09-14-2006, 10:49 PM
Actually, Daffy Duck is by far my favorite Looney Tunes character, doesn't mean I can't recognize his brilliance AND his anachronisms at the same time: Bogart's dead, nobody goes to a spa for the gout, nobody uses an iron lung, and Brylcreem isn't in the mainstream anymore.

JimJamBonds
09-14-2006, 11:10 PM
And now we have puffy planets to deal with!!! lol http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060914/ap_on_sc/puffy_planet

Kidhuman
09-14-2006, 11:24 PM
I wonder if they smoke weed on a puffy planet?&

Phantom-like Menace
09-15-2006, 12:48 AM
What is my very educated mother going to show us now?&

My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Neptune?


It just really, to me, reeks of the astronomers saying, "Hmm, there are no more celestial bodies that can be easily discovered. How else can we get in the news?"

Nah, that ignores the fact that all of this started because of the many celestial bodies that were easily discovered that began the whole debate. I would think adding Ceres and Eris (among many other stray chunks of rock and/or ice) to the roster of planets would have been just as newsworthy. Demoting Pluto was simply more logical as well.

Another thought to consider is that prior to this event, there was no hard definition of planet. As we begin to discover extrasolar planets, nailing down a good definition now will help us as we discover more and more exotic bodies that we would otherwise hastily ascribe the word planet to.

Kidhuman
09-15-2006, 06:03 AM
My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Neptune?


I was thinking not-pluto or ninnies for the letter n&

CaptainSolo1138
09-15-2006, 06:41 AM
My Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Nachos?

I don't think that there was a really good reason to downgrade Pluto. It's been a "planet" for 70 years or so and I feel that, like Chux said, this was basically a PR move to garner some attention in the astronomy field that doesn't have to do with NASA, a failed mission, or shuttle tiles.

It should have been left alone, even though I agree with the new designators for planethood. Since Pluto was around for so long I think the IAU should have "Grandfathered" it and left it's planetray status intact. On a small scale, think of all the textbooks that'll need to be revised and, ultimately, rebought. This particularly sucks for college students, because when the new edition comes out next winter, the one used this fall won't be bought back at the end of the semester. Kiss your refund good-bye so the editor can change a dozen paragraphs and change a few diagrams.

Blue2th
09-15-2006, 07:30 AM
I think they should send in the Deathstar to destroy Pluto. Then we can say it WAS a planet. Or not feel bad about it 'cause it wasn't really a planet anyways. :D

Phantom-like Menace
09-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Saying Pluto should stay a planet because it's been a planet for a long time is like saying the coelacanth should stay extinct because we believed it extinct for so long that we should ignore the inconvenient living specimens.

2-1B
09-15-2006, 05:52 PM
Brylcreem isn't in the mainstream anymore.

Well, it should be.

Blue2th
09-15-2006, 06:05 PM
"Brylcreem, a little dab will do ya!"

pbarnard
09-15-2006, 09:03 PM
My Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Nachos?

I don't think that there was a really good reason to downgrade Pluto. It's been a "planet" for 70 years or so and I feel that, like Chux said, this was basically a PR move to garner some attention in the astronomy field that doesn't have to do with NASA, a failed mission, or shuttle tiles.

It should have been left alone, even though I agree with the new designators for planethood. Since Pluto was around for so long I think the IAU should have "Grandfathered" it and left it's planetray status intact. On a small scale, think of all the textbooks that'll need to be revised and, ultimately, rebought. This particularly sucks for college students, because when the new edition comes out next winter, the one used this fall won't be bought back at the end of the semester. Kiss your refund good-bye so the editor can change a dozen paragraphs and change a few diagrams.

That's life. If you buy a book in college you shouldn't expect the bookstore to buy it back. University is american indian word for "screwing you over this week". All the people who don't accept the the status in Pluto sound like Kansas' school board in terms with evolution.

So despite it's known existence for 70 years, it isn't worth mentioning that it's smaller, orbit is more erratic, and it is well outside of the predicted orbit using Kepler's formulas which successfully predicted the orbits of Saturn, Uranus and Neptune with acceptable limits and Pluto's is well off the mark?

Nostalgia and saving money are not acceptable scientific reasons or methodologies given the evidence and the definitions that have finally been codified.

Phantom Like Menace is correct. The other thing is what a physical chemistry professor said to me: Everything they teach you in general classes is a lie; you learn the vocabulary, but not how anything really is.

Phantom-like Menace
09-16-2006, 12:36 AM
Phantom Like Menace is correct.

I swear I didn't do it on purpose!

El Chuxter
09-16-2006, 12:39 AM
Nostalgia and saving money are not acceptable scientific reasons or methodologies given the evidence and the definitions that have finally been codified.

No, but the reputation of a noble duck with a speech impediment is a good reason. Viva Daffy Duck, regardless of what JT says. :mad:

LusiferSam
09-16-2006, 12:37 PM
So despite it's known existence for 70 years, it isn't worth mentioning that it's smaller, orbit is more erratic, and it is well outside of the predicted orbit using Kepler's formulas which successfully predicted the orbits of Saturn, Uranus and Neptune with acceptable limits and Pluto's is well off the mark?

That is very incorrect. None of the planets (dwarf or otherwise) obey Kepler's Third Law with "acceptable limits." This is because Kepler's Laws only work for a two body system and out Solar System is a multi body system. A true fully solution can't be made analytically, only numerically. Most of the time Kepler is pretty good. It all comes down to what "acceptable limits" are.


No, but the reputation of a noble duck with a speech impediment is a good reason. Viva Daffy Duck, regardless of what JT says.
That's Donald Duck who has the speech impediment. Watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" if you don't believe me.

El Chuxter
09-16-2006, 02:07 PM
That's Donald Duck who has the speech impediment. Watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" if you don't believe me.

What's funny about the line in Roger Rabbit is that they both have a speech impediment. Daffy has an exagerrated lisp and can't pronounce several soft consonants properly. (In fact, it could be argued that Donald just has a completely ridiculous voice and manner of speaking, and Daffy's the only one with a speech impediment. :p)

JediTricks
09-16-2006, 04:09 PM
No, but the reputation of a noble duck with a speech impediment is a good reason. Viva Daffy Duck, regardless of what JT says. :mad:You're an idiot, regardless of what you say... no wait, BASED on what you say. :p

Blue2th
09-16-2006, 05:52 PM
Who fwamed Woja Wabbit? Aw I know is I won't be moving to Pwuto anytime soon if it's not a pwanet.

El Chuxter
09-16-2006, 07:50 PM
You're an idiot, regardless of what you say... no wait, BASED on what you say. :p

And you're still a Doombot with a strange fixation on discrediting Daffy Duck. :)

2-1B
09-16-2006, 10:47 PM
"Your name will be COSMOS."

JediTricks
09-17-2006, 03:00 AM
And you're still a Doombot with a strange fixation on discrediting Daffy Duck. :)
That must be why I said he's the best Looney Tunes character.


My grandfather is 93, until he was 17 Pluto wasn't referred to as a planet, the perception has just gone full circle.

You know what I find interesting? How regular folks are acting like astronomers are planning to blow Pluto up with an Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator or something, and even if they were, that it would somehow affect their lives in any way.

Blue2th
09-17-2006, 04:50 AM
You know what I find interesting? How regular folks are acting like astronomers are planning to blow Pluto up with an Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator or something, and even if they were, that it would somehow affect their lives in any way.
Well, we could at least settle the shock-wave question. Will it explode like the original Star Wars or the Special Edition? :laugh:

pbarnard
09-17-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, we could at least settle the shock-wave question. Will it explode like the original Star Wars or the Special Edition? :laugh:

But it's too small, could be a proof of concept though:thumbsup:

Phantom-like Menace
09-17-2006, 07:58 PM
You know what I find interesting? How regular folks are acting like astronomers

I always find it interesting when astronomers act like regular people.

El Chuxter
08-18-2009, 09:09 PM
I just saw something on TV that reminded me of this issue.

To hell with all the jackarses who voted Pluto out! Who's next in the cosmic Survivor: Solar System? Uranus has an unfortunate name. Everyone thinks Mercury is a hothead. Or could it be a total surprise and (gasp!) Earth gets voted out?

Mad Slanted Powers
08-19-2009, 12:33 AM
And now we have puffy planets to deal with!!! lol http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060914/ap_on_sc/puffy_planet

Haven't they changed these to diddy planets now?

I recall Tim Calhoun's reaction on SNL:

"I'm glad Pluto is now a dwarf planet. It's about time we had a planet to send those little bee holes to. I propose that we make Jupiter a Mexico planet."

Qui-Long Gone
08-19-2009, 11:55 AM
OMG!

Did you guys hear last night that, like, Mars totally used head of house to put up Saturn and Neptune because he wanted to take out Saturn for voting out Earth even though Neptune tried to vote out Mars last week and lied about Saturn's loyalty to Mars, but then Venus won power of veto instead and, put up Mercury to save Saturn? And after Mercury was voted out, Mars was like, "Venus, you said you would play with loyalty and help me and Mercury get Saturn out, WFT?" And Eath's moon was like, "Mercury and I were really tight so now my back is up against the wall and I'm going to hav to play my game, yo."

That was, like, totally unexpected, but I think Venus will still make final two because she has played really well...unless, like, Mars gets HOH again....I-love-this-season!

Blue2th
08-19-2009, 12:36 PM
Hey don't forget about Beetlejuice! Just found out that's an actual star, though it's probably not spelled that way.
That could throw a wrench in all your plans. :crazed:

pbarnard
08-19-2009, 01:25 PM
Hey don't forget about Beetlejuice! Just found out that's an actual star, though it's probably not spelled that way.
That could throw a wrench in all your plans. :crazed:

Beetleguese, one of the shoulders in the constellation Orion?

Bel-Cam Jos
08-20-2009, 03:46 PM
Actually, since the Solar System's planets are based on a polytheistic society, all names will have to conform to current beliefs. Therefore:

Mercury -> Geiko
Venus -> Lady Remington
Earth (Gaea) -> Rebecca
Mars -> Hershey
Jupiter -> Stupider
Saturn -> Hyundai
Uranus -> Preparation H
Neptune -> Ariel

By the way, my 1983 Funk & Wagnalls encyclopedia under "Solar System" lists "The Major Planets," with Pluto right there. So how's it fall to a "minor planet" so fast? :upset:

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 05:49 PM
By the way, my 1983 Funk & Wagnalls encyclopedia under "Solar System" lists "The Major Planets," with Pluto right there. So how's it fall to a "minor planet" so fast? :upset:
Ah, but your 1893 encyclopedia doesn't list it as a planet at all! "So how's it grow to a planet so fast?" they'd say back in 1930.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-20-2009, 08:33 PM
You KNOW about my 1893 research books collection?!? How?

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 08:39 PM
I didn't, mister knifey did.

LusiferSam
08-20-2009, 11:27 PM
I still would like to know why people are so bothered by this. It's professional scientists deciding on a professional term. It's not like Pluto had to pack it's bags and start orbiting another star. Ceres has under gone three classification changes (planet, asteroid, and dwarf planet). And guess what, very few people really have cared that much. Get over it.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-20-2009, 11:46 PM
We should care about Ceres. She's the god of cereal, who provides my breakfast nearly every morning. Without her, there would be no Wheaties boxes to put Olympic champions on.

El Chuxter
08-21-2009, 06:30 AM
Because it undermines the very social structure of America and leads to chaos, and the next step is we all have implants in our heads and worship Britney Spears. So bite me. :p

Qui-Long Gone
08-21-2009, 08:07 AM
Because it undermines the very social structure of America and leads to chaos, and the next step is we all have implants in our heads and worship Britney Spears. So bite me. :p

Let's not start attacking Ms Spears, El...:mad:...it's not worship, it's called being a fan!:upset: I think a lot of people are jealous because she does have class but they want to portray her as being 'white trash,' or 'a skank,' or a 'crazy-washed-up-bimbo-pushing30,' or 'trailer-park insane,' or 'a ho,' or 'an unfit mother.' It's really sad when people are haters. If we can't respect Britney, how can we appreciate what Pluto means to our galaxy...:cry:

LusiferSam
08-21-2009, 08:11 PM
So bite me. :p

Gladly. But you'll have to come out here first and sign a release. The last person I bit really threw a fuss over it. :p Who knew such a minor planet could cause harm. lol

Bel-Cam Jos
08-21-2009, 09:45 PM
It's in Nostradamus' Directors' Cut prophesy:


And lo' for in the time post why too kay
The tiniest orb of sunny revolution
Shall create a revolution of the populace
Around a dog like a human but with a mouse
Or the Roman god down below
And the blows electric in their type
Like posts and tweets all a-twitter
Proclaim full status or lesser
None will survive this calamity
All ends in tragedy.
So there.

p.s. And JT, tell Mr. Knifey that I sent him a nice whetstone as a present, with Rick McCallum's home address inside. ;)

JediTricks
08-23-2009, 03:09 AM
I still would like to know why people are so bothered by this. It's professional scientists deciding on a professional term. It's not like Pluto had to pack it's bags and start orbiting another star. Ceres has under gone three classification changes (planet, asteroid, and dwarf planet). And guess what, very few people really have cared that much. Get over it.I suspect they care because they see it as "ours", part of "our gang", the "inner circle" if you will (pun sadly intended). There's a little investment of one's self into situations like that, and to find out that the insider is really not what was expected can be a deflation of ego.



Because it undermines the very social structure of America and leads to chaos, and the next step is we all have implants in our heads and worship Britney Spears. So bite me. :pDo bluetooth headsets count as implants?



p.s. And JT, tell Mr. Knifey that I sent him a nice whetstone as a present, with Rick McCallum's home address inside. ;)Mister Knife appreciates gifts, but doesn't take requests, he only makes 'em. However, Mister Knife says bribery is a respectable expression of capitalism, so there could be an open mind... literally?

Bel-Cam Jos
08-23-2009, 08:34 AM
Do bluetooth headsets count as implants?Only if they run on DD batteries.

Who said that? :p

On that note, why hasn't LucasEverything created a blue Snaggletooth hands-free device yet?