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Turbowars
09-29-2006, 07:28 PM
Yak Face,

3) I've heard rumours about a 3 3/4 scale Sith Infiltrator? First of all, is it true? And secondly will it be scaled like the 'real' ship [ideally with space for a couple of probe droids and a Sith speeder or is it going to be a modified TIE fighter with room for one pilot?

Hasbro,

Yes, it is true. It will be develoepd for the $19.99 Starfighter Vehicle line, so liberties will be taken with scale but there will be cool features and will be designed for one pilot. We can't wait to show fans the final product…it's a sensational vehicle.

Sounds more like sensational BS.



$19.99?!?!?!?!?! WTF! Hasbro is killing the line.

Battle Droid
09-29-2006, 07:32 PM
At least they're making it.

JediTricks
09-29-2006, 07:37 PM
I warned you guys this is what would happen.

Turbowars
09-29-2006, 07:56 PM
At least they are marking it? Come on now. Hasbro have lost their nerve. I wont buy it and I hope they reuse the mold for years to come. Next year they can paint it the colors of the rainbow.

Now that's Sensational!

pegger
09-29-2006, 07:56 PM
Yak Face,

3) I've heard rumours about a 3 3/4 scale Sith Infiltrator? First of all, is it true? And secondly will it be scaled like the 'real' ship [ideally with space for a couple of probe droids and a Sith speeder or is it going to be a modified TIE fighter with room for one pilot?

Hasbro,

Yes, it is true. It will be develoepd for the $19.99 Starfighter Vehicle line, so liberties will be taken with scale but there will be cool features and will be designed for one pilot. We can't wait to show fans the final product…it's a sensational vehicle.

Sounds more like sensational BS.



$19.99?!?!?!?!?! WTF! Hasbro is killing the line.


So it'll be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter - which ain't too bad. X-Wing size would have been better... I don't see this as "horrible" just a reflection of what sells. Face it, the 19.99 price point works for kids, parents and some collectors. And it'll fit Maul - so... it ain't ALL bad...

Devo
09-29-2006, 07:59 PM
As expected. I am now less likely to consider this a worthwhile purchase. The sith infiltrator was not a starfighter, it may have had the appearance of one but it was more the scale of a space freighter like the Millenium Falcon. Its a wait and see jobby. Right now I'm not enthused.

Jargo
09-29-2006, 08:04 PM
Blah. Might just as well not have bothered. Unless it's made from really cheapo plastic and has minimal parts. then it could be bigger. but with them saying 'cool features' it sounds like firing things and pop out things and useless non movie stuff.

There again I don't buy ships anyway. take up way too much space. now speeder bikes and swoops are a whole different kettle of fish.

JediTricks
09-29-2006, 09:24 PM
So it'll be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter - which ain't too bad.Provided you don't mind that the Jedi Starfighter is the smallest space vehicle in all of Star Wars and the Sith Infiltrator is 5 times that size, a third bigger than a Republic Gunship.
Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter - 8 meters
Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter - 5.5 meters
Naboo Fighter - 11 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
ARC-170 - 14.5 meters
Republic Gunship - 17.5 meters
Sith Infiltrator - 26.5 meters
world's biggest minirig - $19.99

pegger
09-29-2006, 10:46 PM
Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter - 8 meters
Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter - 5.5 meters
Naboo Fighter - 11 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
ARC-170 - 14.5 meters
Republic Gunship - 17.5 meters
Sith Infiltrator - 26.5 meters
world's biggest minirig - $19.99

Watching Jeditricks and Turbowars melt down - priceless... ;)

I'm not saying it's ideal. I would prefer a larger one too. I'm only saying I can see why Hasbro wants to keep it to a 19.99 price range. Heck, to make it "in scale" to the starfighter it would be the size of the Royal Starship. Now, I love that ship - but it's pretty big - and I don't have the space to display an "in scale" Sith Infiltrator.

Phantom-like Menace
09-29-2006, 11:21 PM
Ten more bucks could have gotten us something more like the Slave I in size and scale, not perfect but far preferable. At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.

Though I'll agree that if you want to change the scale that much what is the point in releasing it? I suppose one could decide it is Darth Maul's personal starfighter with a design influenced by his Sith Infiltrator. We can put a bumper sticker on it that says, "My other car is the Sith Infiltrator."

Kidhuman
09-29-2006, 11:23 PM
Meh, I will wait to make a decision on it. &

TheDarthVader
09-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Meh, I will wait to make a decision on it. &

Is it me or does this guy use the word "meh" too much?...................hehe

Anyway, I will wait and see how the thing looks, but I am doubting that I will be buying this baby-sized Sith Infiltrator. This is horrible news. When I first read the title, I thought it was going to be exclusive. And, when I thought about it being exclusive, I thought...YES! This baby is going to be huge! And now this baby is going to be a baby. &

Kidhuman
09-29-2006, 11:59 PM
Is it me or does this guy use the word "meh" too much?...................hehe




Yeah, I do, but its awesome, every vocabulary should have it :)




&

El Chuxter
09-30-2006, 12:01 AM
Provided you don't mind that the Jedi Starfighter is the smallest space vehicle in all of Star Wars....

Smaller than the Cruisemissile? :p (Okay, seriously, is it really smaller than a standard TIE?)

dindae
09-30-2006, 12:19 AM
Well I'm not happy about the scale, but I will buy it and probably be pretty please with it. The ship has little interaction with on character so I would rather they skimp on this than have them do so on an AT-TE or Jabba's Sail Barge. Still not good news but I will give JT his props on calling it months ago. I will still hope it will come in two pieces and the cockpit has to be attached to the main part of the ship so that can get an extra 6" or so. (yes I know if Hasbro could sell 6" they would make millions)

kool-aid killer
09-30-2006, 06:07 PM
I think the Sith Infiltrator will work in this size. All it really needs to be able to do is have ample room for a Maul figure to fit in. Why people get so bent out of shape over this (and especially when we already know Hasbro doesnt do vehicles that are of the appropriate scale a vast majority of the time) is beyond me. Hasbro can still make this look decent.

Turbowars
09-30-2006, 06:53 PM
It's comment like that tell Hasbro it's OK to make inferior product.

Look, I didn't post this to start a debate on who's right or wrong. Why is it beyond you to understand others point of views. Hasbro CAN DO BETTER. We all know that, but they decide not to. I wont buy it and you will, that's cool.:thumbsup:

Slicker
09-30-2006, 07:54 PM
It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.


And don't make me revive my "Never Happy" thread.;)

Turbowars
09-30-2006, 07:58 PM
It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.


And don't make me revive my "Never Happy" thread.;)
I dare you, I triple dog dare you. :yes:

Tycho
09-30-2006, 08:10 PM
The Sith Infiltrator as Hasbro describes it is exactly what I expected and it will make me happy.

What else I expect? A lever will remotely open and fold the wings on the back, similar to how the INT-4 mini-rig worked back in Kenner's days.

There might be firing missles - and I LIKE firing missles. OK? It allows me to make my new toy ship interact with my cats and I can chase them around the house and shoot them and stuff. (Jango's Slave-One or the Hailfire Droid is best for that though - lot of firepower).

What would surprise me? Some way to use the Sith Speederbike or the Dark Eye Probe Droids with the ship (maybe the probes will launch out of the back somehow on clear tube missle inserts such as how the Sith Speeder operated?)

The ship only needed to hold Maul in a pilot seat like the Darth Vader TIE.

Sure it could have been cool for play value if Maul had room for prisoners on board so you could make your own adventures with him. But when Obi-Wan cut him in half, it also cut my interest in him in half. So that's that.

RooJay
09-30-2006, 10:01 PM
All I read there is that it's actually being made. I'm buying! Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale. Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!) If the Infiltrator were produced closer to actual scale it'd have to be much closer in size to the Queen's Starship vehicle that was done for the Episode 1 line, and none of you could have ever seriously expected that to happen. As long as Darth Maul fits in it I really don't see how this could be so serious an offense. Besides, at 20 bucks I seriously doubt many collectors or fans would ever really consider passing on this ship.

kool-aid killer
09-30-2006, 10:27 PM
It's comment like that tell Hasbro it's OK to make inferior product.

Look, I didn't post this to start a debate on who's right or wrong. Why is it beyond you to understand others point of views. Hasbro CAN DO BETTER. We all know that, but they decide not to. I wont buy it and you will, that's cool.:thumbsup:

Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:

RooJay
09-30-2006, 10:34 PM
Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:

Ahem...make that 28 years!:thumbsup:

Devo
09-30-2006, 11:03 PM
Put it this way. I like the jedi starfighters because they're pretty much as big as they need to be. Accordingly I buy them. They were that size in the film, I'm happy to buy them at that size. Not so Darth Mauls ship. It wasn't presented in the film as a small starfighter but as a larger freighter. He didn't climb out of a hatch at the top of the ship he walked down a ramp at the underside of the ship. Having it starfighter size is just wrong for me. Its like the sandcrawler - the toy is tiny (something I only realised with its modern release)....just far too small. It wasn't like that in the film. Simple as that. Why bother. Why would I bother? What will a starfighter-size toy have beyond firing missiles? For a diorama what will it contribute? I can put a Maul figure beside it but it will be totally out of scale and only good for one scene in any case. In this situation it seems I needn't bother setting up this scene at all. I have serious doubts about whether I need bother buying this ship now. For me there'd be scant difference in having Darth Maul standing there by himself and Darth Maul standing next to a severel undersized toy ship. Granted I'm possibly in a minority on that score. Also granted it may end up looking better than I currently imagine.

Tycho
09-30-2006, 11:32 PM
A small ship can still have a ramp access in the back - it will probably just need a TIE-style opening top on it for convenience.

Jargo
09-30-2006, 11:35 PM
Sometimes I marvel at how non discerning people are. The propensity to buy anything as long as it has the 'right' label on it. Regardless of quality.

This won't be the death of the line but it will be one more step down a slippery slope. The more corners hasbro cuts and the more people carry on buying regardless, the more hasbro will continue to cut corners.
re-carded figures you've bought a few times before are collectible because they're on a different card? screw that and save your money then you could afford to buy bigger better scale vehicles. if the consumer can afford them hasbro will make them. it's only because people are buying all this 'new cardback' stuff time and time again and then moaning they have no money to buy big box items that takes hasbro down the $20 road with vehicles.

Personally I couldn't give a flying **** at a rolling donut what the cost is at retail. if I like it and it's good scale and good qualiy I'll buy it. I'd have bought a royal starship scale Sith infiltrator even if it cost $100 or more. but that's because I'm discerning and circumspect about what I buy. it allows me freedom of cashflow.

As it looks like this sith infiltrator will be vastly underscaled, moreso than the X-wing or the royal starship, I can't imagine even contemplating purchasing it. At that size they might as well have passd it over and done Grievous's Utapau escape ship. or more landspeeders. airspeeders and transport craft. which can be done in correct scale within the $20 price point. It's a complete waste of a good vehicle to create it with so much compromise.

Phantom-like Menace
09-30-2006, 11:58 PM
Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale.

That's either missing the point or making light of the point. Look at the Millennium Falcon. Sure, it's way too small for the figures, but figures can go in the cockpit, loung, gunwell, and floor just like in the movie. The Rebel Transport is an even better example. It would be as big as a nicely sized house, but Hasbro scaled it down to a few inches. However, it can hold how many figures? You feel like you can at least evacuate the figures you have on display in your Rebel Base.

Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave I was great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size. I would be fine if there weren't even a place to put the speeder bike. Something large enough to have a pilot area and at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure would have been great. That arrangement could still be smaller than Slave I and not all but abandon the concept of what the Infiltrator was.


Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!)

The casual viewer would have at least noticed he walks upright out of the back of it and must have stashed an entire speeder bike somewhere.

This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."

Edit:

At that size they might as well have passd it over and done Grievous's Utapau escape ship. or more landspeeders. airspeeders and transport craft. which can be done in correct scale within the $20 price point. It's a complete waste of a good vehicle to create it with so much compromise.

Very well stated.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 12:18 AM
Well I hope they will still do Grievous' ship (that Obi-Wan gets away in), Padme's star yachts (which had more screen time and interiors shown than Maul's ship) etc.

But this is a return to marketing Darth Maul. They're going to use him and his image to sell this to those that buy into that whole Maul thing.

You don't see them having as high of anticipation expectation around making "Darth Tyranus'" solar sailor ship, do you? That's because Dooku was never an obvious marketing blitz - Jango was that for E2. Vader was probably for the rest of the saga, but Grievous had some marketing appeal for E3.

Still, Hasbro is a toy company. Attickus has a correctly scaled Millennium Falcon for a few thousand dollars and in the Death Star hanger no less. I'd say the complainers should go buy that. I'm more offended by recarded figures than any effort on what might be an entirely new mold. On the Sith Infiltrator, I'll reserve judgement until I see pictures.

RooJay
10-01-2006, 12:42 AM
That's either missing the point or making light of the point. Look at the Millennium Falcon. Sure, it's way too small for the figures, but figures can go in the cockpit, loung, gunwell, and floor just like in the movie. The Rebel Transport is an even better example. It would be as big as a nicely sized house, but Hasbro scaled it down to a few inches. However, it can hold how many figures? You feel like you can at least evacuate the figures you have on display in your Rebel Base.

With all due respect and not to offend, that was most definitely "making light of the point" as opposed to "missing the point". I understand everyone's points perfectly. I just think everyone offended by this news is making a mountain out of a mole-hill.


Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave I was great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size. I would be fine if there weren't even a place to put the speeder bike. Something large enough to have a pilot area and at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure would have been great. That arrangement could still be smaller than Slave I and not all but abandon the concept of what the Infiltrator was.

The casual viewer would have at least noticed he walks upright out of the back of it and must have stashed an entire speeder bike somewhere.

Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale]) we never see him or anyone else intereacting with the ship in any other way, and particularly not in anyway you've described in the above statement. We're really only asked by the film to assume that he somehow pilots the ship. Conversely, we're shown on film that characters can stand up in the Millenium Falcon's cockpit and that many more than two people can fit therein, though that is not the case with the toy.


This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."

From another point of view (one held by me in particular and one that should be seen as equally valid), the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. I for one would love to see a new Millenium Falcon made in scale (or at least closer to it) and think that it could be done at a price I would be willing to purchase it for (I think I'd probably go for it at $300-500), but I'm perfectly content in the understanding that it's just never going to happen. Same case with the Sith Infiltrator. Could it be a little bit bigger? Yes. Would I prefer it if it was? Absolutely! Am I gonna holler and scream at Hasbro until they take it back and redo it? No, because there's not a chance it's going to happen anyway. Not even if every Star Wars collector in the world signed a petiton stating they would refuse to buy it like this and then actually stuck to that statement - and let's all be perfectly honest here - at least 9 out of 10 fans that are up in arms about this development are going to end up buying one anyway. Hasbro would just cancel the item all together if it came to that, and I for one would rather have a small Sith Infiltrator than none at all. Anyone else not happy with the way it's being done (again, not to offend here) can just refrain from buying it. Under which circumstances should those of us to whom it's just not that big a deal have to go without just because there are others who would rather not have it at all?

JediTricks
10-01-2006, 01:18 AM
It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.It's that kind of logic which sees Hasbro releasing the dinky-winged white TIE Fighter next year - now there's a fair entry in the 30th anniversary line, because that same dopey-looking wing size has been around since 1977 (it was designed in '77 even though it was released in '78).



Ten more bucks could have gotten us something more like the Slave I in size and scale, not perfect but far preferable.Yeah, and the $30 pricepoint gets us vehicles the size of the Republic Gunship and ARC-170, it's a heck of a lot closer to what it should be than some rinky-dink Jedi Starfighter.


At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.Aiming pretty low, huh PLM? :p That thing sucked, looked almost nothing like it was supposed to and couldn't hold a figure.


Though I'll agree that if you want to change the scale that much what is the point in releasing it? I suppose one could decide it is Darth Maul's personal starfighter with a design influenced by his Sith Infiltrator. We can put a bumper sticker on it that says, "My other car is the Sith Infiltrator."Maybe this toy will be the Sith Infiltrator's escape pod. :p



Anyway, I will wait and see how the thing looks, but I am doubting that I will be buying this baby-sized Sith Infiltrator.I'm in the same boat, I'll wait and see but right now I'm not seeing a reason to buy a Sith Minirig. If I wanted a Sith Infiltrator toy that badly out of scale, I'd buy the Action Fleet version... oh wait, I did. :D



Smaller than the Cruisemissile? :p (Okay, seriously, is it really smaller than a standard TIE?)
The cruisemissile is more man than machine. :p

Yes, it's smaller than a TIE Fighter, which is 6.3 meters long and much taller.



I think the Sith Infiltrator will work in this size. All it really needs to be able to do is have ample room for a Maul figure to fit in. Why people get so bent out of shape over this (and especially when we already know Hasbro doesnt do vehicles that are of the appropriate scale a vast majority of the time) is beyond me. Hasbro can still make this look decent.
To me, it's a big waste of time, if we wanted one so grossly out of scale we would have just asked them to make a Titanium Series 6" version. We only see it in the movie a couple times, and one of them is interacting with Maul - he is standing just outside the hatch on the LOWER LEVEL, the thing is massive behind him. I didn't think Hasbro should have tried this at all, it's not a big enough player in the film, but if they're going to do it they shouldn't screw up the scale this badly when there is a perfectly servicable $30 pricepoint that would be better suited to the ship's size. At $20, it's going to be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter and they're going to have to take liberties with the cockpit lines - and one of its niftiest design features, the opening hatch doors, what are they going to do with that?



The Sith Infiltrator as Hasbro describes it is exactly what I expected and it will make me happy.

What else I expect? A lever will remotely open and fold the wings on the back, similar to how the INT-4 mini-rig worked back in Kenner's days.Well, comparing this to a Minirig sounds about right anyway. :p

Here's what I find most odd Tycho, you say you're not a collector but a diorama-maker, everything you get is in service to that, but what diorama are you going to do with a Sith Infiltrator that's only as tall as the Darth Maul figure standing behind it?



All I read there is that it's actually being made. I'm buying! Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale.That's not a fair argument, we all know it's not going to be to scale, but up until now no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller pricepoint - there's no $20 AT-AT, no $20 Imperial Shuttle, no $20 Millennium Falcon.


Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!)There's a shot in the movie of the Infiltrator landed with its doors open, they aren't even half the cockpit's height, and then Maul comes out of those doors.



A small ship can still have a ramp access in the back - it will probably just need a TIE-style opening top on it for convenience.The doors and ramp were under the engines, how would you get the figure out of there or look halfway decent standing in front of that if they were to scale with the dinky vehicle? And if they were to scale with the figure, there'd be no engines.


Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale]) I refer you to the above statment I just made. How would that be possible? He comes out of this: http://multimedia.theforce.net/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Episode_1/Vehicles/Sith_Infiltrator&image=JEDI12.jpg&img=&tt=


the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. Are you going to buy the $20 white TIE Fighter next year? Would you expect any collector to? As mentioned before, this entry will be the first vehicle to cross its scale/pricepoint envelope, that's a compromise I don't think is a good choice, it has to hurt the vehicle's lines if nothing else and it's just an oversized Minirig - would you buy a Republic Gunship or ARC-170 if it were the size of the 1978 X-wing Fighter toy? I seriously doubt it.



Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave Iwas great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size.Maul's ship is 26.5 meters long, Slave I is 21.5 meters long, and the Slave I toy is way undersized from what we saw in the movies.


This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."Yes, thank you, that's it exactly.



Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale])

Phantom-like Menace
10-01-2006, 03:33 AM
With all due respect and not to offend, that was most definitely "making light of the point" as opposed to "missing the point".

That's cool. I figured that was the case but was covering the bases.


(other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale])

I won't say it's impossible, but we're now talking about a trunk.:razz: In seriousness, something the size of the Jedi Starfighter would end up having a serious bulge to fit something the size of the speeder and Maul inside the bubble structure that is the main passenger area of that design.


we never see him or anyone else intereacting with the ship in any other way, and particularly not in anyway you've described in the above statement.

You mean when I said, "at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure?" That's compromise. The movie shows Maul walking out of that area standing fully erect. I'm not asking for enough room for him to stand, just be seated at least. And even then I'm not saying they need to put an actual seat in that space, just an amount of storage equal to the amount required to hold a seated figure.


From another point of view (one held by me in particular and one that should be seen as equally valid), the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. (...) Under which circumstances should those of us to whom it's just not that big a deal have to go without just because there are others who would rather not have it at all?

No, your point is equally valid, but the question is when is compromise no longer compromise? I'm a Hasbro defender going way back, but "compromise" in my opinion isn't doing whatever the hell you please minus the absolute slightest concession to the other camp. If I want 100% and someone else wants 1%, is 20% compromise? Twenty-five? Does this even qualify as twenty percent? How much more would you be willing to compromise to get an Infiltrator? From the sounds of it, this "effort" on Hasbro's part is within the reach of some of the better customizers out there using a Jedi Starfighter. Only I doubt we'll ever know for sure, because I doubt they would think the end result worth the effort.

I would say, as I kind of mentioned above, Hasbro could release "Darth Maul's Starfighter," but that would be :shocked: EU:shocked: and a particular brand of rhetoric grips a particular group of adherents who think angels and kittens die in droves each time EU is released, so maybe it is best to release an EU starfighter as "Darth Maul's Infiltrator" just so they are placated by the happy thought that they are only buying movie items.

I'm willing to bet that if Hasbro went thirty percent, this thread wouldn't exist. There would be those *****ing and complaining that the toy isn't 1:1 scale and can't go into hyperspace, but they would be a very small minority. A larger group of people would give their usual statements about how they don't buy any vehicles ever in life (but will complain Hasbro doesn't put out vehicles), but by and large happiness would ensue.

The real problem here is that Hasbro is making the molds to do this. They will complain and complain about how much it costs to make molds, but then they will make something that is destined to rot on shelves. "When we make vehicles, you won't buy them!" Yes, Hasbro, you're right. You're absolutely right. What was I thinking? And I didn't buy Thermonuclear R5-D4 back in the orange card days because I don't buy astromechs. No, no, ignore the many astromechs I've purchased, because they don't support your theory.

And since it's taken me so long to finish this reply (I'm at work, so lots of distraction):


Maul's ship is 26.5 meters long, Slave I is 21.5 meters long, and the Slave I toy is way undersized from what we saw in the movies.

That's what I said (maybe slightly paraphrased:grin: ): Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size if you just look at the movies and don't go out and crack a book just to prove someone wrong.:p But I kid JediTricks. . . . Sincerely: all in jest. Giving us the solid numbers is appreciated.

My point of course, all joking aside, is that no one really complains about the scale of the Slave I toy and an Infiltrator of similar length would be fine (maybe a bit longer because of Infiltrator's nose). It's compromise short of one side basically getting their way in its entirety.



At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.
Aiming pretty low, huh PLM? :p That thing sucked, looked almost nothing like it was supposed to and couldn't hold a figure.

To quote Barney from How I Met Your Mother: "Ambition is the enemy of success." Seriously, though, that thing stunk on ice. And it's terrible, because I would do evil and unconscionable things to get an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon. That . . . thing . . . is the perfect example of when compromise is no compromise. I had to be told what it was or I wouldn't have known.

Your point about how no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller price point fairly well states things quite impressively. I was tying my brain in knots trying to convey that thinking.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 04:18 AM
Here's what I find most odd Tycho, you say you're not a collector but a diorama-maker, everything you get is in service to that, but what diorama are you going to do with a Sith Infiltrator that's only as tall as the Darth Maul figure standing behind it?

I'm going to stick the softgoods Maul in it, which I've been saving for a Sith Infiltrator since 1999, and then I'm going to hang it from my ceiling in what will eventually be my prequel Tatooine / Geonosis / Utopau / Mustafar room. I'm not making the display with Maul in front of the landed ship. I'd like it displayed with the wings open in flight mode.



The doors and ramp were under the engines, how would you get the figure out of there or look halfway decent standing in front of that if they were to scale with the dinky vehicle? And if they were to scale with the figure, there'd be no engines.

Wow. I've never paid it that much mind before.

JEDIpartner
10-01-2006, 09:40 AM
I told you not to expect a miracle ship!!! You should have already known that there was no way this would even be CLOSE to the size of the Royal Starship. After that debacle, there was no way it was going to happen again!

rbaumhauer
10-01-2006, 12:50 PM
This whole thing matters to me not a bit, as I don't buy Prequel stuff, but this whole debate got me thinking. I don't know if anybody has mentioned this before, so forgive me if it has, but has it occured to anyone that the Jedi Starfighters were so small in the movies precisely because it makes for a less expensive/easier to produce toy?

I'm not saying that I wasn't aware of the whole "George Lucas makes movies to sell toys" angle, and we certainly have history (ie, Ewoks) that points to past considerations, but when I look at the Jedi Starfighters in relation to every other starship in the movies, they are dramatically smaller. Do you suppose the designers were advised to shoot for something that would allow Hasbro to hit that $20 pricepoint without compromising scale (as had happened in the line since the '70s)?

Tycho
10-01-2006, 01:01 PM
The A-wing was a really small starfighter.

The Lars Landspeeder has never been made and would be probably less than $20 at retail.

I don't think size and toy design had much to do with each other myself.

They never made the Gian speeder or the smaller battle-droid-on-a-rack carrier - and the Senate speaker's car we did get (with the battle pack) was terribly underscale and if it were actually made to scale, it wouldn't be that much bigger - maybe 1/2 again as big or 1.5 times its current size.

DarkArtist
10-01-2006, 03:59 PM
I want one. So what if it isn't in scale at least Hasbro is making one. Afterall, they could pass on it all together.

Turbowars
10-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:
You know what, you don't have to sound so condescending. Hasbro decides to make some ships closer to scale than others and this one will be too off scale for me. Yes Hasbro is killing the line for me. I barley ever buy their products anymore and I'm sure that goes for many other collectors out there. I guess if you don't mind the scale then buy it. I will continue to say whats on my mind about Hasbro and any other company that I give my hard earn $ to.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-01-2006, 08:13 PM
Well, as of yet, we don't for sure know the scale. I'm thinking that it will indeed be much smaller than in the films, but they'll likely cut corners in the nose to make it larger.

But, really, this vehicle wasn't in the film that much, so who ever expected a full-scale one? I'm still happy they're making it and we should reserve final judgment until it comes out.

JediTricks
10-01-2006, 09:34 PM
That's what I said (maybe slightly paraphrased:grin: ): Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size if you just look at the movies and don't go out and crack a book just to prove someone wrong.:p But I kid JediTricks. . . . Sincerely: all in jest. Giving us the solid numbers is appreciated.I didn't crack books, I just looked 'em up on the official site. If I had bothered to get up and look at the books in the living room, my posts would have been sadly FAR longer. ;)


My point of course, all joking aside, is that no one really complains about the scale of the Slave I toy and an Infiltrator of similar length would be fine (maybe a bit longer because of Infiltrator's nose). It's compromise short of one side basically getting their way in its entirety.I've complained about the size of the Slave I toy, I want a little more play environment, at least the real door in the back, but that's me. I think my comparisons between the Sith Infiltrator and Republic Gunship or ARC-170 are a little better, it's the same pricepoint but they use the space more like the Sith Infiltrator (Slave I is a small mold in part because there are no big flat parts, it's all bulk).




To quote Barney from How I Met Your Mother: "Ambition is the enemy of success." Yeah, but he gave Lilly and her twin chlamydia. :D


Seriously, though, that thing stunk on ice. And it's terrible, because I would do evil and unconscionable things to get an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon. That . . . thing . . . is the perfect example of when compromise is no compromise. I had to be told what it was or I wouldn't have known.That's a good point, Hasbro compromised in every manner possible and ended up with a total piece of garbage - the size is too small to fit the $20 pricepoint, the color is off to make it more kid-friendly, it has a new gimmick that ruins most of the ship to make it kid-friendly, and I don't know what compromise ruined that cockpit but I bet it was one.


Your point about how no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller price point fairly well states things quite impressively. I was tying my brain in knots trying to convey that thinking.Thanks, it's a concept I hadn't expressed before but needed saying here I think.



I'm going to stick the softgoods Maul in it, which I've been saving for a Sith Infiltrator since 1999, and then I'm going to hang it from my ceiling in what will eventually be my prequel Tatooine / Geonosis / Utopau / Mustafar room. I'm not making the display with Maul in front of the landed ship. I'd like it displayed with the wings open in flight mode.Why bother putting a figure in it? Why bother having this version over the Titanium or Action Fleet versions if figure interaction display isn't the key?


Wow. I've never paid it that much mind before.Then why did you want it? It's not like I'm pulling this scale out of my behindus (thank you Doctor Zoidberg), these details are in the movie as the main focus of their shots.



I told you not to expect a miracle ship!!! You should have already known that there was no way this would even be CLOSE to the size of the Royal Starship. After that debacle, there was no way it was going to happen again!But not even Republic Gunship or ARC-170 sized??? I mean, I knew Hasbro was going to pull this, and even those $30 sizes wouldn't fully pull off what the ship was, but I sorta thought maybe they'd recognize that the $20 size is too small and go $30.


I don't believe Lucas asks for designs that are toy-friendly, not the Ewoks, not the Jedi Starfighters, I think he has ideas and concepts for various things and asks designers to dream up the thing based on his bare-bones concepts like "small Star Destroyer-shaped fighter" then OKs the ones that best fit his vision - the Jedi Starfighters aren't practical for toys because of droid slots and other stuff, the Ep 2 JSF toy is about half-scale at that.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 09:40 PM
Why bother putting a figure in it? Why bother having this version over the Titanium or Action Fleet versions if figure interaction display isn't the key?

Because I CAN put a regular 3 3/4" figure in it and I bought that figure for the ship 6 years ago already. This feels like the completion of a quest sort of. Even then, I had no reason to buy that softgoods Maul - I think I used less than 10 of them for all my TPM scenes - but that came out and I came up with a reason to buy it - holding out some hope for a Sith Infiltrator.

I also have softgoods Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, with the accessory pack robes, and a JarJar figure saved, in case I ever get a Bongo sub out of Hasbro.

DarthBrandon
10-01-2006, 11:29 PM
Yes Hasbro is killing the line for me. I barley ever buy their products anymore and I'm sure that goes for many other collectors out there. I guess if you don't mind the scale then buy it. I will continue to say whats on my mind about Hasbro and any other company that I give my hard earn $ to.

Dam skippy, been slowing down quite a bit as of late myself & I don't feel bad about it one bit. I was going to buy two (one for my son & I) but after hearing it will be as small as the Jedi Starfighter I'll just get one for my son as he really digs the ship. After watching him play with ship, I'll make a decision on whether or not I'll buy another one. ($19.99 seems like it's going to bite big time) I have found better things to spend my money on so Hasbro had better impress me big time to renew my spending habits in their toy line.

El Chuxter
10-01-2006, 11:50 PM
Anyone think Hasbro could surprise us and release a bargain-priced full-sized Sith Infiltrator for $20?

Me neither. :p

plasticfetish
10-02-2006, 01:13 AM
I think we all know what we'll end up with, but I'm not so jaded that I would rule out a surprise.


...I'll just get one for my son as he really digs the ship. After watching him play with ship, I'll make a decision on whether or not I'll buy another one.This thread is another perfect example of a time when we all sort of forget that this is really just a kid's toy line. I like DarthBrandon's approach to considering this... I like the fact that he's willing to give it a chance, and to see if it'll turn out as a halfway decent toy before ruling it out entirely.

Even I'm a little surprised by the price though. I think JT's point about it needing to be the same size as a Gunship is a good one. Mostly I'm amazed that Hasbro is going to bother making this vehicle, given that it has such a small part in a film that most fans claim is their least favorite in the series.

They are a glutton for punishment aren't they?

Phantom-like Menace
10-02-2006, 01:37 AM
How many of us are complaining that it isn't the size of the Queen's Starship toy and how many of us are complaining that it has been scaled back too drastically? I wouldn't be able to understand the former, but I can't understand not agreeing with the latter.


I didn't crack books, I just looked 'em up on the official site. If I had bothered to get up and look at the books in the living room, my posts would have been sadly FAR longer. ;)

Book, website, same thing. Though this is reminding me how much I need to get the EII and EIII cross sections books regardless.


I've complained about the size of the Slave I toy, I want a little more play environment, at least the real door in the back, but that's me. I think my comparisons between the Sith Infiltrator and Republic Gunship or ARC-170 are a little better, it's the same pricepoint but they use the space more like the Sith Infiltrator (Slave I is a small mold in part because there are no big flat parts, it's all bulk).

Both the vintage mold and the EII mold, or just one or the other? If the EII mold could hold a Han in the cargo area, it would make me pretty happy, even though it's actually smaller than the vintage. Of course because it was not made for the OT, there was no reason to give it a hold, but it's too bad Hasbro didn't have the foresight to put one in for when they released it as the OT version. Of course, I can't fault Hasbro too much for that. I'll restate though: few people really complain about the scale of the Slave I toy. Otherwise, I'll go with comparisons between the Infiltrator and Republic Gunship. Infiltrator is 26.5 meters long and the gunship is 17.4 (saving you some trouble, JT;) ), so while Infiltrator should be longer, I've got no problem with the Infiltrator toy being the same length as the gunship toy.

I'll chime in that I doubt Lucas okayed the JSF design with any special regard toward making toys. There are just too many holes in that logic.

dindae
10-02-2006, 09:50 AM
Let me start by saying I'm very happy Hasbro has started to make new vehicles again. I know that not many people would have been willing to shell out $60 or more for a properly scaled ship because it isn't very exciting of a ship. However for all of those people who seem to be content will the $20, would you have spent $30? I assume that most of you would and aside from fitting into case assortment that stores are already buying I don't see a good reason to not bump the ship up a notch.

jedi master sal
10-02-2006, 11:13 AM
Well, I for one am not surprised by this. We expected the scale to be small. Just not as small as the prospect of a $20 toy holds.

I'll get one and use it as a background vehicle. I do forced perspective dioramas anyway, so I can work the scale to fit my diorama. But I'm the exception here.

In no way do I suspect a surprise here. Hasbro will not produce this close to scale.
Half scale (to the queen's ship toy) would have been fine, but we won't get that either.

It IS disapointing to say the least. But I AM gad they are making it at all. I, like most others, just don't have the time or patience to build one from scratch to our liking. So this is going to have to make due. Yeah, it's a poor excuse.

Here's a thought to the Sith speeder. Since it's belly is curved shaped, and it's slightly slim, it could be a PART of the toy. Push in on it and it "clicks" out, push again and it "clicks" into a locked position. (Much like cabinet doors). Since the Infiltrator is going to be scaled down, the speeder would actually fit pretty nicely like that. It could be right under the engines, so the hole that's left from it being removed for play isn't as noticeable. There could even still be a small back door.

I'm not endorsing Hasbro persay for making this the scale they are, but I am agree with those who say they are happy that the ship is even comeing out at all. Especially given Hasbro's recent comments on NOT making new vehicls/ships.


Should it be bigger? YES.
Will they (Hasbro make it the right scale? NO.
Will many who complain about this being the wrong scale still buy it anyway? My feeling is yes. whether they want to admit it or not. If you don't get the Infiltrator now, you may never get it later. (okay, maybe on eBay for big bucks if it does well, or if it tanks at retail you might get it on sale. Point being you'll still get it.)

I feel SW is going to take a downward turn in the near future and it's going to spin off into relative ambiguity. It will be here, but it's allure will (and has already to some point) diminish.

I won't say people shouldn't give their remarks about this, but all this complaining will do is reinforce Hasbro's reasons for NOT making more vehicles in the future. And I for one still want my damned AT-TE. Wrong scale of NOT!!!

So please folks take this with a grain of salt as NOONE has seen this yet. Make a more inofrmed decision, just not now. DO it when you've seen pics and such.

Respectfully,
-Sal

rbaumhauer
10-02-2006, 04:04 PM
The A-wing was a really small starfighter.

The Lars Landspeeder has never been made and would be probably less than $20 at retail.

I don't think size and toy design had much to do with each other myself.

They never made the Gian speeder or the smaller battle-droid-on-a-rack carrier - and the Senate speaker's car we did get (with the battle pack) was terribly underscale and if it were actually made to scale, it wouldn't be that much bigger - maybe 1/2 again as big or 1.5 times its current size.

But none of those were vehicles that could be repainted and rereleased the way the Jedi Starfighters have been. Imagine if every Jedi had a visually-recognisable starship, but they were each the size of an X-wing - how many people would buy each one as it came out?

I don't claim to have proof, mind you - this whole discussion of scale just got me thinking.

JEDIpartner
10-02-2006, 04:54 PM
I never thought the ship was all that cool anyhow.

JediTricks
10-02-2006, 05:10 PM
Because I CAN put a regular 3 3/4" figure in it and I bought that figure for the ship 6 years ago already.That is such a Minirig type of answer - by that logic, you should have bought Hasbro's Ep 1 mini-Gungan Sub and mini-AAT and hung them in the display room.


This feels like the completion of a quest sort of. Even then, I had no reason to buy that softgoods Maul - I think I used less than 10 of them for all my TPM scenes - but that came out and I came up with a reason to buy it - holding out some hope for a Sith Infiltrator.Seems like a cart-before-the-horse excuse for accepting a poor Sith Infiltrator.


Even I'm a little surprised by the price though. I think JT's point about it needing to be the same size as a Gunship is a good one. Mostly I'm amazed that Hasbro is going to bother making this vehicle, given that it has such a small part in a film that most fans claim is their least favorite in the series.Well, Kenner did the AT-ST for the ESB line even though it made only a cameo appearance, but it did something interesting and fit with the scene at hand while the Infiltrator is less interesting and it's way too late.


They are a glutton for punishment aren't they?That's what Hasbro says about us. :p


Both the vintage mold and the EII mold, or just one or the other? If the EII mold could hold a Han in the cargo area, it would make me pretty happy, even though it's actually smaller than the vintage.I've never thought to compare their sizes, I always thought they were the same size. The vintage mold annoys me in large part because the interior has no sculpted panels, it's just the inside of the mold, very ugly. But the Ep 2 version has Jango standing in the doorway and not only is there no doorway on the toy, but there's barely enough room to put his severed head, much less the rest of him.


I'll go with comparisons between the Infiltrator and Republic Gunship. Infiltrator is 26.5 meters long and the gunship is 17.4 (saving you some trouble, JT;)), so while Infiltrator should be longer, I've got no problem with the Infiltrator toy being the same length as the gunship toy.I posted the Gunship's length on the first page. :p I rounded up to 17.5. I think the Gunship is a good comparison because it's wide, it's fairly long, and most importantly, it's tall the way the Infiltrator should be.

Phantom-like Menace
10-02-2006, 07:21 PM
So Hasbro has decided we won't buy vehicles, and I really can't argue with that. Most of us are up front about saying we won't and the rest decide they're too expensive even if we do want them.

So Hasbro decides to test the water with vehicles of low pricepoint to see if we will buy them. For some ungodly reason, instead of looking at the scores of vehicles we want that would fit in the $20 pricepoint, they choose one that doesn't fit that pricepoint.

So it sucks without measure, and no one buys it, and "logically" we don't want vehicles at any price.

or

It sucks without measure, and we buy it only to suffer $20 AT-TE's, Royal Yachts, sale barges, and the like.

Then I see Hasbro deciding that we will take scaled-down versions of everything. Have you seen the The Corps Stealth Unit Attack Fighter? I've attached it below. That'll be the size of future fighter craft. Why make a $20 swamp speeder when you can make it the size of a motorcycle, sell it for $10 and we'll buy it up because "at least we're getting it."

It's kind of depressing that Hasbro can release good vehicles that cost $90 and it's too much of a sacrifice for some of us because we think it should be five or ten dollars less, but they can release crap vehicles for $20 and the vastly reduced quality is considered perfectly reasonable sacrifice, despite the fact it should be better and a little more expensive.

Tycho
10-02-2006, 07:39 PM
There are some vehicles I want that I care about the scale for, and some I don't mind at all. They are:

Don't care about scale - just get it done:

Sith Infiltrator - make the wings move, seat a reg. Maul figure (softgoods), and fire a couple of plastic missles. I don't mind if the scale is off - it's not that important to me.

Gungan Submarine - seat softgoods Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and JarJar - probably one each in the 3 Bongo compartments (the side 2 were actually cargo holders in the movie). Make the propeller squid tail turn remotely, and maybe have it fire that harpoon in the front (that's actually a steering vane). The size will be compromised as well.

Padme's space yachts: make it seat 4 in the front: Anakin, Padme, C-3PO, and have a space for R2D2. You can alternate those figures with Typho and Obi-Wan. Have a detachable front piece that adds the Episode 3 "winged look" to it included in the box. In the rear, a secret compartment for Obi-Wan to hide in and maybe a bunk bed. This ship will be offscale - especially when displayed as the AOTC version - and the tail will not be movie accurate to one or the other of the two ships. But again I don't care. Just get it done.

The Wookiee Catamaran - just hold 2-4 figures in the "canoes."

The Swamp Speeder - hold 2 clones instead of 4.

The large Homing Spider Droid - it'd be huge if made to scale. Just make it "Gunship sized."

Jabba The Hutt's sailbarge - see Zizzle's Black Pearl from Pirates of the Carribean


Care about the scale: do it right!

The V-wing

Grievous' escape ship that Obi-Wan takes

Senate Speaker cars

The Lars Family Landspeeder

The Gian Speeder

The Corporate Alliance Tank Droid

The Droid Gunship

Various podracers

There are more examples of things that could be done to scale and not-to-scale, but these are just a few that I want, and how I'd buy them.

plasticfetish
10-02-2006, 07:46 PM
It's kind of depressing that Hasbro can release good vehicles that cost $90 and it's too much of a sacrifice for some of us because we think it should be five or ten dollars less, but they can release crap vehicles for $20 and the vastly reduced quality is considered perfectly reasonable sacrifice, despite the fact it should be better and a little more expensive.If it's "too much of a sacrifice," it's only because $90 is a pretty hefty investment for some of us. I'd like to see one example of a Star Wars vehicle that sold for around $100 that really owned up to that price anyway. Most of them, even the biggest,
were probably only worth half... the clearance prices (I got my royal Starship for $10) tell that story.

If they're choosing to sell a vehicle for $20, then they're doing it based on a perceived notion of what their customers (mostly kids according to them) are willing to pay. It's a little early to say whether they'll be putting out a product with "vastly reduced quality," but whatever it is, you've got to remember that they're designing and pricing it for parents to buy for their kids.

Collectors are an afterthought, and let's face it... they know that we're suckers, and that enough of us will likely buy the product regardless of price and quality, to justify putting it on the shelves. At the very least, we'll clean up the leftovers once they go on clearance, which is what most of you should be holding out for anyway.

Tycho
10-02-2006, 08:38 PM
I disagree about holding out for clearance. PlasticFetish has forgotten the first buyers - not parents, kids, or collectors, but TRU, Target, and Wal-Mart.

The big 3 want to see a profit from stocking these things and they are pretty much so diversified from greeting cards to sports equipment that I haven't really heard whether they investigate who buys their Star Wars toy products.

I know Wal-Mart prefers the big ticket - thus if a Black Pearl ship is on the receipt along with toilet paper, microwave dinners, mouth wash, and vitamin water - they maximize their sales by having Star Wars as a draw for that particular customer who didn't just get their 'grocery items' at a local 99 Cent store.

So Hasbro can decide it's kids or collectors, or both, and still prep an AT-TE but if Wal-Mart decides not to buy it - it just won't happen. Art Asylum had the final Enterprise bridge section with Travis Mayweather's station prototyped and basically ready for the final tooling needed to begin production, and not even an e-tailer (NewForce) could garauntee them enough orders to make it worthwhile.

So the attitude of "I'll wait until it's on clearance" doesn't do the future of the line much good. Besides, if I recall - many of you missed out on B-wings with that strategy.

plasticfetish
10-02-2006, 10:15 PM
Besides, if I recall - many of you missed out on B-wings with that strategy.Ouch! He hits me with the one ship I missed out on because I waited too long. ;)

I think the buyers for Target, Wal*Mart, etc. do take into consideration exactly who's buying what product. The people at store level may not care, but I don't doubt that someone is aware of who's spending money, and on what.

My "wait 'til it's on clearance" attitude is generally reserved for those toys -- could be any toy really -- that I'm not 100% sure that I want. If I'm not completely sold on this ship when it hits the shelves, but I still sort of want it, I'm very likely to chance getting it on clearance rather than impulse spend the first time I see it.

But that's just me. I've gotta draw the line and pinch pennies sometimes. ;)

I'm not sure how the Art Asylum reference sells your point though. I mean, if no one was willing to spend the money, then it wasn't a worthy product on the whole. That, and frankly I think AA has always had a weird approach to marketing their stuff.

TheCivilCollector
10-03-2006, 01:41 AM
At this point, the only ship I really care about anymore is Grievous' Fighter.

That thing is a SLICK looking ship that would be very easy to do at a (nearly) correct scale. However, I wouldn't mind getting Padme's Flying Wing from AOTC, but that's highly doubtful. Maybe they'll do a titanium of it.

Phantom-like Menace
10-03-2006, 08:54 AM
If it's "too much of a sacrifice," it's only because $90 is a pretty hefty investment for some of us. I'd like to see one example of a Star Wars vehicle that sold for around $100 that really owned up to that price anyway. Most of them, even the biggest,
were probably only worth half... the clearance prices (I got my royal Starship for $10) tell that story.

I realize there are people who legitimately can't afford these items. I currently am shaking in my chair with a need to purchase two of the TRU AT-ATs, but I can't catch a break financially right now to get even one. It's the mentality of those who want the vehicle, can afford the vehicle but don't get it because they're quibbling about a few bucks they feel are just too much.

How many of the people who will jump on a Sith Infiltrator for $20 would balk at the idea of paying $90 for an AT-TE that is as long as a Hasbro AT-AT but half as tall?


It's a little early to say whether they'll be putting out a product with "vastly reduced quality," but whatever it is, you've got to remember that they're designing and pricing it for parents to buy for their kids.

As far as it being a little early to judge the quality, how much lower of a pricepoint do they have to quote for this to be a problem? We can walk into a retail store right now and see what we will get for $20. I'm not saying we can't have quality for $20, because there is perfectly good stuff for $20. The point is, for $20 you get something that is arguably worth $20. I'm sure what we get from the Infiltrator is perfectly reasonably priced at $20. We're going to get something that is worth $20 but isn't worth the Sith Infiltrator.

"For a $20 price point, we're going to release Grievous's fighter!" Awesome, that makes sense. For a $20 pricepoint, we're going to release the Swamp Speeder." Awesome, that makes sense. "For a $20 price point, we're going to make Padme's Star Yacht." What? You already have a price point that matches that item. Why are you changing the vehicle for the pricepoint rather than changing the price point for the vehicle?

And as far as parents buying these toys for kids, they've always been for kids but what hasn't always been is scale compromised this dramatically to arrive at a pricepoint. All I can think is that SNL skit with Judge Judy where she says, "Don't give me rabbit poop and tell me it's chocolate."


Collectors are an afterthought, and let's face it... they know that we're suckers, and that enough of us will likely buy the product regardless of price and quality, to justify putting it on the shelves. At the very least, we'll clean up the leftovers once they go on clearance, which is what most of you should be holding out for anyway.

And that paragraph summed up the problem pretty well. We make ourselves afterthoughts and compound the problem by rooting for the item to go on clearance. So we get it for less money, Hasbro loses money and decides not to take risks. No one wins.

JediTricks
10-04-2006, 03:07 PM
Then I see Hasbro deciding that we will take scaled-down versions of everything. Have you seen the The Corps Stealth Unit Attack Fighter? I've attached it below. That'll be the size of future fighter craft. Why make a $20 swamp speeder when you can make it the size of a motorcycle, sell it for $10 and we'll buy it up because "at least we're getting it."That made me sad, partly because of how true it rings and partly because The Corps vehicles are really crappy.



Don't care about scale - just get it doneThen why bother doing it if they ain't gonna do it even partly right?


Gungan Submarine - seat softgoods Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and JarJar - probably one each in the 3 Bongo compartments (the side 2 were actually cargo holders in the movie). Make the propeller squid tail turn remotely, and maybe have it fire that harpoon in the front (that's actually a steering vane). The size will be compromised as well.Geez, why would you want this? And at $20, there's no way it'll be wide enough to accomodate 3 figures even in the 3 separate bubbles - and why the hell would you want 3 separate compartments for the figures when that's the ONLY thing it did in the movie was give them a chance to talk? I wouldn't mind having this at $30, but no way in hell it'd work at $20.


Padme's space yachts: make it seat 4 in the front: Anakin, Padme, C-3PO, and have a space for R2D2. You can alternate those figures with Typho and Obi-Wan. Have a detachable front piece that adds the Episode 3 "winged look" to it included in the box. In the rear, a secret compartment for Obi-Wan to hide in and maybe a bunk bed. This ship will be offscale - especially when displayed as the AOTC version - and the tail will not be movie accurate to one or the other of the two ships. But again I don't care. Just get it done.Padme has 1 yacht, the Ep 2 Naboo Royal Yacht that took them to Tatooine and Geonosis. She had the Naboo Royal Cruiser at the beginning of Ep 2 and the Naboo Star Skiff in Ep 3, all of which were pretty big. There's no way in hell you'll fit 4 figures into a $20 vehicle of any of that shape - hell, you can barely fit 4 figures into the Naboo Royal Starship toy when it's closed and that was initially a $100 mold!


The Wookiee Catamaran - just hold 2-4 figures in the "canoes."This is one I don't want at any price, but due to its simplistic design I think you could actually get it into a $20 pricepoint if it was partly unassembled.


The Swamp Speeder - hold 2 clones instead of 4.The Clone Swamp Speeder already holds only 2 guys. I'm not sure I'd want to pay $20 for this thing, it's basically a wide desk with 2 easy chairs, a fan, and 2 small turrets, but it'd fit with room to spare in the $20 pricepoint.


Jabba The Hutt's sailbarge - see Zizzle's Black Pearl from Pirates of the CarribeanYou wouldn't pay $20 for a Sailbarge.



Care about the scale: do it right!So now you're picky.


Grievous' escape ship that Obi-Wan takes"General Grievous' Starfighter", yeah, I'd like to seem them do this one too, it'd likely work as a $20, they should make the tail work like it did in the movie.

JON9000
10-04-2006, 05:27 PM
Most vehicles naturally fit the $20 scale, thank heavens.

I think only the most prominent vehicles from the movies deserve large scaling. The Millenium Falcon was a toy you *had* to have at a reasonable scale. Anything else is dangerous. Marking $100 vehicles down to $10 is proof positive that they don't sell, unless you make it an exclusive and cause a shortage, thereby angering those that were not able to get it.

Given the business reality here, I would rather have a $20 Sith Infiltrator that everyone can afford and is readily available than one that is expensive and only scalpers can get.

pbarnard
10-04-2006, 09:09 PM
Plus how many vehicles have been scale accurate in Star Wars to date?

A-Wing, TIE Fighter (recently), TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor (debateable), T-47 Snow Speeder (Debatable), Speeder Bike, Luke's XP-38, Zam Wessel's Speeder, Anakin's Speeder, Maul's Speeder Bike, Dooku's Speeder Bike, Swoop Trooper, The Jedi Starfighters.

They aren't doing too well in that regard. Just another in a long line of not scale, not going to try, but graciously keeping it affordable for all.

Devo
10-04-2006, 09:50 PM
Sure its not like this is without precedent. The Sandcrawler comes to mind. I didn't have the vintage one nor ever see pictures of it with figures alongside so when the pictures of the new one started appearing on the web and then I saw it in person I was hugely let-down. Its tiny!! The Bantha is almost as big as it in all dimensions. Yet in the film it was gargantuan. I did buy it though because i'll take whatever we can get for the OT, I'm sure they'll never make a new one.

For the prequels I will be less forgiving. I'm not so into prequel toys that I'll buy something 'simply because'. This thing is going to be so small as to be beyond absurd. Jedi starfighter size?? I can understand some scaling down, they even scale down vehicles that could easily be made fully to scale while being at a small pricepoint - such as the AOTC airspeeders - but to this extent its too far. Firing missiles, an opening canopy and retractable landing gear...and heres a Darth Maul figure to tower over his ship...or should that be pod?

Bacta Beast
10-04-2006, 10:44 PM
Hasbro!!!! It's not too late!!! Fix this mistake!!!! I would rather pay $30 to $40 dollars for a more correctly scaled "Infiltrator". And I'm cheap!!!! Seriously, We've been paying $40 for X-Wings and Ties that we already have from TRU. Those are way over priced, especially since their existing molds. And the AT-AT for $80!!! C'mon!!!! You may as well do this one right! It's not one the kids ave been clamoring for, it's for the fans. And you know we like it done right. Hasbro, please take your time with this and do it right. I for one would rather pay $20 more and have it right, than save money by having it too small!

jedi master sal
10-05-2006, 02:20 AM
Hasbro!!!! It's not too late!!! Fix this mistake!!!! I would rather pay $30 to $40 dollars for a more correctly scaled "Infiltrator". And I'm cheap!!!! Seriously, We've been paying $40 for X-Wings and Ties that we already have from TRU. Those are way over priced, especially since their existing molds. And the AT-AT for $80!!! C'mon!!!! You may as well do this one right! It's not one the kids ave been clamoring for, it's for the fans. And you know we like it done right. Hasbro, please take your time with this and do it right. I for one would rather pay $20 more and have it right, than save money by having it too small!



Here here! I agree completely.

JON9000
10-05-2006, 02:12 PM
At this point I think it useful to remind people how much shelf space these large vehicles take up. You are paying for more than the costs of producing a toy. Hasbro is really in a no win situation with vehicles.

In spite of my rooting for cheaper vehicles, I woulda really dug a large sandcrawler. ;) Then again I didn't get the small one because $45 seemed obscene for something that small.

pbarnard
10-05-2006, 02:15 PM
At this point I think it useful to remind people how much shelf space these large vehicles take up. You are paying for more than the costs of producing a toy. Hasbro is really in a no win situation with vehicles.

In spite of my rooting for cheaper vehicles, I woulda really dug a large sandcrawler. ;) Then again I didn't get the small one because $45 seemed obscene for something that small.

Exactly. In reality, it's what Wal-Mart wants, Wal-Mart gets.

TheCivilCollector
10-05-2006, 09:00 PM
I really don't see the big deal about this. If the toy isn't to your taste, don't buy it. It will send a far greater message to Hasbro than complaining will.

Personally, I don't see the problem with scaling down a second-tier vehicle. It had about 30 seconds of screen time and the toy would be the size of the Royal Starship if they wanted to really do it justice. I'm not saying it should be mini-rig size, but it is a toy, after all. They're going to make something kids can actually play with.

I've always felt they could do a reasonable version of it about the size of a Power FX X-Wing (approximate length, not a part-for part comparison), but there are those who feel I am very wrong about this.

If you really want one to scale, you could just make it yourself, and feel secure in the fact that you (at the very least) have what you wanted.

I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.

El Chuxter
10-05-2006, 09:13 PM
Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles today, we may not have to worry. Hasbo's making this, not Hasbro. :p

TheCivilCollector
10-05-2006, 09:48 PM
Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles today, we may not have to worry. Hasbo's making this, not Hasbro. :p

You haven't heard of Hasbo?" The non-union, south of the border subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc....

Turbowars
10-05-2006, 09:52 PM
Wait Hasbro's Unionized?:cross-eye

Believe me I WONT be buying this ship and I will complain at the same time. Hasbro needs a kick in the pants.

plasticfetish
10-05-2006, 10:40 PM
Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles todaySmart a**! :p&

jedi master sal
10-06-2006, 08:33 AM
Exactly. In reality, it's what Wal-Mart wants, Wal-Mart gets.

But why should it? The Infiltrator SHOULD be bigger. And since Wal*Mart and Target are both set against selling big toys because of shelf space and TRU ISN'T, then this should be a TRU exclusive!

Besides, TRU needs all the help it can get! It's not ALL TRU's fault for their situation. Collectors (from all genre's not just SW), kids and parents alike, have taken to buying from the big box storres like WM and Target and TRU has suffered because they don't have the diversity of other stock. So they can't "low-ball" prices on toys. Why do you guys think they were trying to merge Babies R Us into many of their stores? This is one reason. Diversification of product enables them to discount a little bit more than they would have had they remained solely a toy store. It's a sad state when we no longer go to the toy store for TOYS!!!


I really don't see the big deal about this. If the toy isn't to your taste, don't buy it. It will send a far greater message to Hasbro than complaining will.

Not buying the toy and not COMPLAINING will only send this message to Hasbro-->"Ships do not sell" OR "Star Wars toys are dying". NO we MUST complain! We MUST tell them EXACTLY what WE want. Screw Wal*Mart. If we're NOT buying the $20 ship regardless then WM is going to get screwed on those too. It's about damn time Hasbro listens to OUR concerns. Look, there's more than one game in town and Hasbro should NOT be put into a strangle hold by certain retailors. I'm CERTAIN that if given the opportunity TRU would POUNCE on the Infiltrator as an exclusive. They MAKE room for big toys. They ARE still a toy store regardless of the additions mentioned above.


Wait Hasbro's Unionized?:cross-eye

Believe me I WONT be buying this ship and I will complain at the same time. Hasbro needs a kick in the pants.


Not just in the pants, but square in the nuts! So far up they are in their throat. I'm am SO tired of being ignored by them. Sure they'll give us the odd ball figure here and there, but not like the likes of an AT-TE for instance.

Damn, look how long it's taken for the Infiltrator! And we have to "settle" for this POS small version? It's ridiculous.

Ok, nuff said for now by me. I need to get a coffee and start of the business day...

pbarnard
10-06-2006, 02:35 PM
But why should it? The Infiltrator SHOULD be bigger. And since Wal*Mart and Target are both set against selling big toys because of shelf space and TRU ISN'T, then this should be a TRU exclusive!

Maybe, but if Hasbro continues to want access to the store and the number of consumers (remember, Wal-Mart is the #1 toy store/buying place), they'll do what they want. Hasbro just makes/suggests how to market. The stores control everything else. So unless you want them to go away from the WM/Targets and only existing as exclusives, SW will go the way of GI Joe recently since TRU was GI Joes only buyer.

As to it should be bigger, sure it should. AS should the Millenium Falcon, Queen's Starship, Outrider, X-Wings (even those based off the FX one), Y-Wing etc. But they aren't. It'll be another in the long line of underscaled/sized vehicles.

JediTricks
10-06-2006, 05:47 PM
I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.Any other examples you can think of? I only ask because the vehicle you cite is considered by myself and others here to be absolutely the worst possibly job Hasbro could have done with that toy, it's an abomination.

Devo
10-06-2006, 10:40 PM
Its quite likely its going to be even smaller than I initially predicted it would be when the rumour started. I said it would be the vertical height of Vaders TIE but have the long nose...or is it tail? Now though, correct me if I'm wrong, Hasbros new idea of 'starfighter size' is the prequel jedi starfighters and not something like Vaders TIE which would be more in the middle-range as far as they're now concerned. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong to think its going to be barely bigger than a delta 7 ship. But thats my feeling right now. And that size is simply ridiculous underscaling for the Infiltrator. Vaders TIE size would be ever so slightly more passable for me.

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2006, 12:02 AM
Besides, TRU needs all the help it can get! It's not ALL TRU's fault for their situation. Collectors (from all genre's not just SW), kids and parents alike, have taken to buying from the big box storres like WM and Target and TRU has suffered because they don't have the diversity of other stock. So they can't "low-ball" prices on toys. Why do you guys think they were trying to merge Babies R Us into many of their stores? This is one reason. Diversification of product enables them to discount a little bit more than they would have had they remained solely a toy store. It's a sad state when we no longer go to the toy store for TOYS!!!

Yes! Toys R Us love! The craziest part of the entire thing, is that Wal-Mart and other discount department store retailers are the driving factor behind our getting gypped out of higher end products, but some of us are more than happy to see TRU fail. Do you think Wal-Mart would ever put out an AT-TE, people? HELL no! If we hadn't left Toys R Us in droves for cheaper products, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now. It's more proof for me that in our capitalist society we consumers are the part that no longer works.


Not buying the toy and not COMPLAINING will only send this message to Hasbro-->"Ships do not sell" OR "Star Wars toys are dying". NO we MUST complain! We MUST tell them EXACTLY what WE want.

Yep, our intended message is not, "We won't buy this," because that's just a symptom of the problem: our real message: "You're falling way short of even our rapidly diminishing expectations."



I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.

Any other examples you can think of? I only ask because the vehicle you cite is considered by myself and others here to be absolutely the worst possibly job Hasbro could have done with that toy, it's an abomination.

Seconded. I nearly did a spit take there.

We continue to ignore the primary message of this thread. While we can cite exceptions to the rule (sandcrawler, Outrider, etc.), we're ignoring two major points.

First we can cite examples until the wee hours of the morning of Hasbro giving us better-scaled vehicles, which makes these better-scaled items the rule, not the exception, and if we shouldn't expect similar, better scale (I.e. not perfect 1:18 scale on all vehicles but simply a remotely consistent, basis for compromise, a basis which should logically be the greater number of vehicles that came before the Infiltrator), then we've already lost a battle and handed victory right to economic convenience.

The second thing we're ignoring, is that these exceptions to better scale that we keep citing . . . yeah, they didn't do so well at retail in terms of sales. I assume it was due to the fact that descriminating consumers decided they were too much of a compromise to scale and opted not to purchase them. As I've said in this thread, "I would do evil and unconscionable things to [pick up] an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon." As far as the Outrider they gave us instead goes, I would simply use a pooper scooper to pick that up. That way I don't get any on my hands.

TheCivilCollector
10-07-2006, 02:56 AM
Well, maybe I'm the only one that thought the Outrider was a decent toy. It's a reasonable facsimile of the ship, and Dash Rendar fits right inside.


First we can cite examples until the wee hours of the morning of Hasbro giving us better-scaled vehicles, which makes these better-scaled items the rule, not the exception, and if we shouldn't expect similar, better scale (I.e. not perfect 1:18 scale on all vehicles but simply a remotely consistent, basis for compromise, a basis which should logically be the greater number of vehicles that came before the Infiltrator), then we've already lost a battle and handed victory right to economic convenience.


I think in the end, the fact that everyone seems to be overlooking is the fact that these are toys we're talking about, and not Master Replicas. It's Ok for a toy to be out of scale because it's really, unarguably, meant to be played with. If a kid gets the same play value (or more) out of an underscale $20 18" toy than he would an accurate 1:18 scale toy for considerably more money that fewer would buy, what's the incentive for hasbro to make the more expensive item?

Why is it OK for most collectors that the AT-AT, or Millenium Falcon (and many others) are way underscale and not the Sith Infiltrator? Given a consistent basis for compromise, as Phantom-like Menace pointed out, considering the greater number of underscale vehicles before, wouldn't an underscale Infiltrator be the "norm", and not the compromise?

Turbowars
10-07-2006, 10:42 AM
Damn I thought Hasbro was Master Replicas. :cross-eye

Bacta Beast
10-07-2006, 11:35 AM
Damn I thought Hasbro was Master Replicas. :cross-eye

How in the world could anyone confuse those two? There's a biiiiiig difference! One of those two pays attention to the people that buy their product and gives them what they want!

Bacta Beast
10-07-2006, 12:29 PM
Yes! Toys R Us love! The craziest part of the entire thing, is that Wal-Mart and other discount department store retailers are the driving factor behind our getting gypped out of higher end products, but some of us are more than happy to see TRU fail. Do you think Wal-Mart would ever put out an AT-TE, people? HELL no! If we hadn't left Toys R Us in droves for cheaper products, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now..

That's ludicrous! In a post 911 economy, with gas prices going through the roof, we're supposed to feel bad for TRU and and spend more money for action figures (that aren't a necessity) for what reason? Because if we don't we're greedy capitalists?:confused:

Look, I love taking a family trip to TRU. But there were times that their figures were over a dollar more than what I would pay at Wal-Mart or Target. On top of the fact that I could never find what I was looking for there. Also while scalpers seem to hit Wal-mart harder, the employees at TRU can be an even bigger obstacle! Now from the "Sith" line going forward I've seen TRu make big improvements! They were match the Wal-Mart price on figures and they're selction was kick-a@#! I loved TRU on the last "Star Wars Night", Wal-Mart (around here anyway) did nothing but dissapoint. But c'mon, between Hasbro, or TRU (Hasbro always says that they don't set pricing:rolleyes:) someone needs to bring down the price of some of these exclusives! The AT-AT, Dagobah X-Wing, Tie-Fighter, and Republic Gunship, are all way over priced. Especially given the state of our economy and the fact that they're just repaints.

Having said that, I go back to my original point. I would gladly pay (I don't care who has it, TRU is fine with me) $30 to $50 for a decent scaled Sith inflitrator. I don't think it should cost $70 or $80. If they can make a small one for $20, they should be able to make a larger version for a little more without going nuts!

Maybe Wal-Mart wouldn't carry an AT-TE right now, I don't know, they're turning into total idiots and trying to alienate the only demographic they have in favor of one they're never going to please!


It's more proof for me that in our capitalist society we consumers are the part that no longer works.

I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

El Chuxter
10-07-2006, 12:37 PM
Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisions, like remodeling all their stores about thirty times in a ten-year period, making the layout more illogical and tougher to navigate each time, despite being in the red.

Oh, and closing down stores that are were the only dedicated toy stores for miles in some areas, while leaving a large number open in a small area in others.

The customer service that pales in comparison to even Wal-Mart's and the unwillingness to part with total dogs (I bet you could still buy some Battlefield Earth toys today at most TRUs) certainly doesn't help, either.

And let's not forget essentially dumping the collector market flat on their arse, though they should be able to easily tell that collectors once accounted for a large part of their sales and have always been marginalized by their competition.

Oooh! Oooh! How about severing their ties with amazon.com in such a way that involved no communication whatsoever to customers, so that baby registries at babysrus.com were suddenly haywire and all preorders for upcoming products were abruptly cancelled?

I'm all for supporting TRU, and I despise WM. But TRU as a whole has made some really stupid mistakes recently, and if they ever do actually go under, they've got what's coming to them.

Jargo
10-07-2006, 01:11 PM
You know, if hasbro had kept quiet about it, and secretly posted to guage reactions they would know that people aren't going to be happy about a ship that large being so underscaled. fair enough on the really huge ships and vehicles. there's no way as a toy that they could economically produce such a thing. but slight reductions in scale on things like the snub fighters is acceptable because the scaling reduction is not so great.
had the millenium falcon been outrider sized there would be this same outcry. no-one would go for that. if the royal starship had been y-wing sized no-one would have gone for that.
speaking personally I'm not going for anything unless it's Tatooine based. And OT. as far as vehicles go anyway. So for me the only large vehicles i want to see is an Imperial landing craft and Jabba's sail barge (yet understand that due to large scale they would be downsized. I'll accept a shuttle sized landing craft and if need be make my own sail barge or half of it anyway.
Other than that the landspeeders and swoops.
In a celebration year I'm more concerned that their vehicle line contains at least some of those small vehicles from Mos Eisley. Xp-38 landspeeder, Ubbrikkian Z001-9000 repulsorlift speeder, Mobquet A1 deluxe floater, Void Spider, The swoop that almost collides with the Ronto in the SE of ANH.
In Mos Espa in TPM there's a red Flash speeder, a green XP-34 landspeeder, the rickshaw pulled by RIC-920, plus a couple more speeders and swoops seen in long shot which look reasonably cool.
I'd sooner spend my money on smaller accurately detailed vehicles than large compromised to hell vehicles anyday.
And it strikes me that if the current economic climate won't support larger vehicles then they should wait, hold fire on those and concentrate on the smaller craft until such time as the economy improves and retailers are better able to facillitate the sale of big box items again.
I mean forgetting my personal taste for tatooine stuff there's about a million other small craft they can do from other locations, the clone swamp speeder, the coruscant air taxi and various airspeeders, twin pod cloud car Which could be repackaged as a concept version in the original McQuarrie colour scheme of blue), Echo base and Yavin base troop/supplies transport vehicles,
Naboo air taxi, Battle droid rack transport sled, Gian speeder, They could correctly detail Grievous's wheelbike so he sits on the correct side and improve those claw footed legs on it. (There's actually more than one in the movie if you look carefully so they could repackage it with Grievous or an Utapau warrior), Grievous's starship, Yoda's shuttle pods (Kashyyk and Dagobah), and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock.

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. orf time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.

Turbowars
10-07-2006, 01:58 PM
How in the world could anyone confuse those two? There's a biiiiiig difference! One of those two pays attention to the people that buy their product and gives them what they want!You do know I was being sarcastic. :yes:

Bacta Beast
10-07-2006, 02:15 PM
As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock. .

Oh they're great . .when Hasbro produces actual pilots for them (coughcoruscantspeederscough)!

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. of time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.[/QUOTE]

Here! Here!

One of the problems with comparing this to ships that Hasbro has already released, is that with the AT-AT, Falcon, and Sandcrawler, shuttle, etc... They were using existing molds that were constructed back before fans had an internet forum to try to voice our feelings to the corporate gawds!! This is a vehicle that we the fans have been clamoring for since 1999. Then after getting our hopes up by telling us they're going to make it, they announce they're going to screw it up! Would it kill Hasbro to try to get some input from the fans on this? I've responded to Hasbro poles before, and never did any of them ask . . "At what price range would you consider purchasing a "Sith Inflitrator"? $20, $30 to $40, $50 to $60.
Would you be interested in buying a smaller, out of scale model? yes or no?
I wish we could put this to Hasbro in one of the weekly questions.... "Do you folks realize you're blowing it with the Sith Infiltrator?"

I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it. It's not going to draw their attention away from a transforming Millenium Falcon, or whatever crappy japaname thing kids are buying these days. Are kids the ones putting down $40 for the TRU Tie Fighter and the Dagobah X-Wing? Not When their parents can buy then a Vader Tie fighter and a Jedi Starfighter at the same price! If they (Hasbro) have decide to sculpt this thing, they may as well take a little time with it and do it right! I think most of us understand that it won't be perfect to scale, but c'mon, $20 worth of "Infiltrator" isn't going to cut it!! We need to at least be able to store the speeder in it.

Bacta Beast
10-07-2006, 02:16 PM
You do know I was being sarcastic. :yes:

Hey, I know. right back 'atcha:thumbsup:

plasticfetish
10-07-2006, 03:52 PM
Look, I love taking a family trip to TRU. But there were times that their figures were over a dollar more than what I would pay at Wal-Mart or Target.

I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.I don't feel sorry for Toys R Us at all. It's not like we're talking about some little mom-and-pop store that has to charge a a little more to pay the electric bill, we're talking about a big company with years of experience. The company that invented the "wearhouse" idea for toys, but they've been beat at their own game by people that know how to compete.

I saw Marvel Icons figures at TRU this morning for $16.99 and then at Target for $14.99. Which store do you think got my money? I couldn't agree with you more.


Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisionsBattlefield Earth! Hahahaha...

Toy R Us is a lazy, unimaginative company with idiots running it from the store manager level on up.


I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it.I agree, which is why -- though I understand their logic in wanting to market (and price) to the kids, I don't see why they're bothering at this point.

I wouldn't be shocked if they changed their mind after reading (if they do) most people's comments.

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2006, 04:44 PM
That's ludicrous! In a post 911 economy, with gas prices going through the roof, we're supposed to feel bad for TRU and and spend more money for action figures (that aren't a necessity) for what reason? Because if we don't we're greedy capitalists?:confused:

Did I say anything about feeling bad for TRU? And did I say people who fit the description I gave were greedy capitalists or did I say they were the nonfunctioning part of capitalism, which would make them not capitalistic? In answer, I didn't say anything about feeling bad for TRU, though I'm touched anyone would think I'm that nice a guy. This is all about helping ourselves. You can complain because TRU doesn't have the monopoly power to lowball every manufacturer into near bankruptcy with corrupt buying policies so as to save you a couple of bucks all that you want, and you can even show me where TRU has tried illegal tricks to increase their bottom line as much as you want (if indeed you desired to go there), but the bottom line for us is that we would be getting more vehicles more of the time and of better quality if we had kept our support with TRU. That's good for us, and I don't give a rat's *** if that's good or bad for TRU. And for the second part, I said consumers are the part of capitalism that no longer works (I.e. if not part of capitalism, not greedy capitalists).

So, yeah, if all you want is to save a buck on figures, then sure, Toys R Us is as bad as all that. But if you wanted the old days of large scale vehicles on shelves (or any vehicles as far as Wal-Mart is concerned), then you're only hurting yourself by fiddling as TRU burns.


I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

Well I guess it would depend on what you're trying to accomplish. If by it working, you mean they artificially devalue merchandise to such an extent that your competitors not only can't keep up but are seen as being greedy because they don't have the monopoly power to set prices at a competitive level and the end result is we fight for the scraps to the point some of us are eagerly anticipating this poor offering by Hasbro, then yes it worked. If by it working, you mean a free market economy gives us and manufacturers choices to purchase merchandise at fair value with the end result being we get all the vehicles we clamor for in the quality we have come to expect, then no, I don't think it worked.

Turbowars
10-07-2006, 09:31 PM
In a nut shell I think the Infiltrater should be at the 39.99 price mark and should be in a box the size of the gunship.

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2006, 11:34 PM
In a nut shell I think the Infiltrater should be at the 39.99 price mark and should be in a box the size of the gunship.

Huh, yeah, that was my point somewhere along the line too.;)

Turbowars
10-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Huh, yeah, that was my point somewhere along the line too.;)Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us on this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2006, 11:53 PM
Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us of this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

It'll happen on occasion.

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 10:57 AM
Why is it OK for most collectors that the AT-AT, or Millenium Falcon (and many others) are way underscale and not the Sith Infiltrator?


I'll only answer for myself and say that they ar already freakin' huge. A to scale Falcon or AT-AT would be massive. (That's why I went out and tracked down one of the 6ft TRU display Falcon's to get that scale)

I would never expect Hasbro to make those ships to scale. Heck, I thinkk most of us are saying that we don't expect Hasbro to make the Infiltrator to scale. Just LARGER than a $20 pricepoint ship is. Jedistarfighter size is WAY to small for this vessel. Falcon size is about right. Considering that Hasbro can package this with the wings either folded or disassembled, the box CAN be rather small. With the landing gear stored, and the wings disassembled the height of the ship could be 7-8 inches and the packaging the same thickness as the AT-AT's box, but shorter in height as it would be packaged on its side. This ship scream of being at least a $40 ship. But I'd pay $60 easy for a decently scaled Infiltrator.

The idea that every kid has a chance to get this vehicle at the $20 pricepoint is valid. But I counterargue that not every kid who likes SW is going to want this ship, let alone even know in what movie or who it's for.

So why NOT make it bigger, charge 3 times the price, make it an exclusive and be done with it. TRU would certainly do well by sellign these.

All I can picture when this does come out is a glut of crappy sized Infiltrators clogging precious shelf space at WM, Target and yes TRU. If every retailer gets this ship, unless it's produced and shipped in low quantities, it's going to stink up those shelves for some time.

Which can be good news for Target shoppers as Target will undoubtedly blow it out for cheap. But what kind of message does that send then?

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 11:00 AM
If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

This is quite possibly one of the smartest responses I've ever read on SSG.

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisions, like remodeling all their stores about thirty times in a ten-year period, making the layout more illogical and tougher to navigate each time, despite being in the red.

Oh, and closing down stores that are were the only dedicated toy stores for miles in some areas, while leaving a large number open in a small area in others.

The customer service that pales in comparison to even Wal-Mart's and the unwillingness to part with total dogs (I bet you could still buy some Battlefield Earth toys today at most TRUs) certainly doesn't help, either.

And let's not forget essentially dumping the collector market flat on their arse, though they should be able to easily tell that collectors once accounted for a large part of their sales and have always been marginalized by their competition.

Oooh! Oooh! How about severing their ties with amazon.com in such a way that involved no communication whatsoever to customers, so that baby registries at babysrus.com were suddenly haywire and all preorders for upcoming products were abruptly cancelled?

I'm all for supporting TRU, and I despise WM. But TRU as a whole has made some really stupid mistakes recently, and if they ever do actually go under, they've got what's coming to them.


Ya know, when you put it THAT way....heh.

Still, I'm more for diversity of retailers. It helps to keep the other ones "honest." Imagine SW collecting if TRU DID drop off. That would pretty much onnly leave WM and Target running the show. I think they'd both agree to raise prices to bolster their bottom line with the license. Having TRU around even if they are consistently a little more expensive keeps WM and Target from going crazy and REALLY screwing us. And by us I don't just mean collectors, but kids alike. And this transcends SW. It would mean Lego, Hot Wheels (though I don't collect this), Marvel Legneds, etc....would all go up preternaturally.

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 11:07 AM
You know, if hasbro had kept quiet about it, and secretly posted to guage reactions they would know that people aren't going to be happy about a ship that large being so underscaled. fair enough on the really huge ships and vehicles. there's no way as a toy that they could economically produce such a thing. but slight reductions in scale on things like the snub fighters is acceptable because the scaling reduction is not so great.
had the millenium falcon been outrider sized there would be this same outcry. no-one would go for that. if the royal starship had been y-wing sized no-one would have gone for that.
speaking personally I'm not going for anything unless it's Tatooine based. And OT. as far as vehicles go anyway. So for me the only large vehicles i want to see is an Imperial landing craft and Jabba's sail barge (yet understand that due to large scale they would be downsized. I'll accept a shuttle sized landing craft and if need be make my own sail barge or half of it anyway.
Other than that the landspeeders and swoops.
In a celebration year I'm more concerned that their vehicle line contains at least some of those small vehicles from Mos Eisley. Xp-38 landspeeder, Ubbrikkian Z001-9000 repulsorlift speeder, Mobquet A1 deluxe floater, Void Spider, The swoop that almost collides with the Ronto in the SE of ANH.
In Mos Espa in TPM there's a red Flash speeder, a green XP-34 landspeeder, the rickshaw pulled by RIC-920, plus a couple more speeders and swoops seen in long shot which look reasonably cool.
I'd sooner spend my money on smaller accurately detailed vehicles than large compromised to hell vehicles anyday.
And it strikes me that if the current economic climate won't support larger vehicles then they should wait, hold fire on those and concentrate on the smaller craft until such time as the economy improves and retailers are better able to facillitate the sale of big box items again.
I mean forgetting my personal taste for tatooine stuff there's about a million other small craft they can do from other locations, the clone swamp speeder, the coruscant air taxi and various airspeeders, twin pod cloud car Which could be repackaged as a concept version in the original McQuarrie colour scheme of blue), Echo base and Yavin base troop/supplies transport vehicles,
Naboo air taxi, Battle droid rack transport sled, Gian speeder, They could correctly detail Grievous's wheelbike so he sits on the correct side and improve those claw footed legs on it. (There's actually more than one in the movie if you look carefully so they could repackage it with Grievous or an Utapau warrior), Grievous's starship, Yoda's shuttle pods (Kashyyk and Dagobah), and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock.

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. orf time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.


Wow, this was so well said, i don't know if I can add any more....though I'll try!

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 11:10 AM
Oh they're great . .when Hasbro produces actual pilots for them (coughcoruscantspeederscough)!

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. of time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.

Here! Here!

One of the problems with comparing this to ships that Hasbro has already released, is that with the AT-AT, Falcon, and Sandcrawler, shuttle, etc... They were using existing molds that were constructed back before fans had an internet forum to try to voice our feelings to the corporate gawds!! This is a vehicle that we the fans have been clamoring for since 1999. Then after getting our hopes up by telling us they're going to make it, they announce they're going to screw it up! Would it kill Hasbro to try to get some input from the fans on this? I've responded to Hasbro poles before, and never did any of them ask . . "At what price range would you consider purchasing a "Sith Inflitrator"? $20, $30 to $40, $50 to $60.
Would you be interested in buying a smaller, out of scale model? yes or no?
I wish we could put this to Hasbro in one of the weekly questions.... "Do you folks realize you're blowing it with the Sith Infiltrator?"

I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it. It's not going to draw their attention away from a transforming Millenium Falcon, or whatever crappy japaname thing kids are buying these days. Are kids the ones putting down $40 for the TRU Tie Fighter and the Dagobah X-Wing? Not When their parents can buy then a Vader Tie fighter and a Jedi Starfighter at the same price! If they (Hasbro) have decide to sculpt this thing, they may as well take a little time with it and do it right! I think most of us understand that it won't be perfect to scale, but c'mon, $20 worth of "Infiltrator" isn't going to cut it!! We need to at least be able to store the speeder in it.[/QUOTE]


Again I have to completely agree.

jedi master sal
10-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us on this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

Count me in on agreement. So that's three!

TheCivilCollector
10-08-2006, 12:29 PM
Jedistarfighter size is WAY to small for this vessel. Falcon size is about right. Considering that Hasbro can package this with the wings either folded or disassembled, the box CAN be rather small. With the landing gear stored, and the wings disassembled the height of the ship could be 7-8 inches......

Hell, I'll easily agree with you there. I've always thought they could start with about a 6" sphere for the cockpit and base everything off that scale. At that size, it would be a little longer than the larger scale x-wing.

I'll bet money that in the end, the cockpit section will be about as big as the classic TIEs (give or take), with slightly underscale nose and wing sections. Something larger would be optimal, but I don't think that it's too bad.

And really, as collectors interested in accuracy, we've been pretty lucky. Most movie-based toylines have nothing BUT severely underscale vehicles. I'm thinking about stuff like this:

http://www.toyrocket.com/assets/photos/TNAE11529f.jpg

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 08:14 PM
Well, maybe I'm the only one that thought the Outrider was a decent toy. It's a reasonable facsimile of the ship, and Dash Rendar fits right inside.I would be surprised if anybody else came to its defense. It's not a reasonable facsimile, it's the wrong shape, the wrong dimensions, the wrong color, the wrong functionality; these are reasonable facsimiles of the ship:
http://cache.lego.com/images/shop/prod/6211-0000-xx-33-2.jpg
http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/sote/soteRoutrider.jpg
http://cargobay.starwars.com/webapps/cargobay/item-detail/7990/6515
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Outrider.png

And as for fitting Dash inside, it's not exactly a perfect fit, the seat doesn't even come close to holding him, he has to be crammed in there in the most awkward manner possible while still in a sitting position: http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/sote/soteoutridercockpit.jpg


This is quite possibly one of the smartest responses I've ever read on SSG.Yes, but it's also far too vague to be a realistically applicable business philosophy, "the people" can't agree on what they want on anything, you have a wide market base with differing wants and opinions. The safest thing to do is shoot for the middle, but this should not be a set of blinders placed on the brand managers, sometimes you have to do what's right for the brand or the product instead of what focus groups tell you they want.


And as for TRU, no doubt they've made some stupendous business blunders, and big hunters WM and Target have been eroding their business base, but TRU is the center of the toy industry, if TRU folds the toy industry will splinter and implode. Without TRU there would be no year-round toy business, the toy departments are a low-return nuisance to WM & Target, they only keep them around to entice housewives into coming in to buy their kid a toy and walking out with a microwave oven, and WM has been considering shrinking their toy sections and even eliminating them except during the holiday season, neither company wants what is best for the toy industry, they only want what is cheapest and most effective for them to get customers into their doors so they can point them to other sections of the store that are more profitable.

Jargo
10-08-2006, 08:27 PM
oooh i forget who it was or which site but someone made an absolutely awesome outrider model. I think he scaled it to the hasbro millenium falcon or possible bigger but the detailing and accuracy was amazing. I've got a picture of it somewhere I'll try and dig it out.

TheCivilCollector
10-08-2006, 08:32 PM
I would be surprised if anybody else came to its defense. It's not a reasonable facsimile, it's the wrong shape, the wrong dimensions, the wrong color, the wrong functionality; these are reasonable facsimiles of the ship:

JT, not trying to offend you, but sometimes it sounds like you wouldn't be happy with something unless you could take calipers, a scale, and a color chart to something and it would all check out.

That's fine, I'm not making fun of you, I guess I'm just not that picky about a toy. If i'd have paid $300+ for a Museum Replicas, you'd bet I'd be picky about it, though.

Toys should adhere to a different set of accuracy rules, IMHO

If you ask me, this (unpainted proto) isn't so bad:
http://www.toysrgus.com/images-produ/outrider3.jpg

Daddypants, If you can find that, I'd love to see it.

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 08:47 PM
JT, not trying to offend you, but sometimes it sounds like you wouldn't be happy with something unless you could take calipers, a scale, and a color chart to something and it would all check out. That's fine, I'm not making fun of you, I guess I'm just not that picky about a toy. If i'd have paid $300+ for a Museum Replicas, you'd bet I'd be picky about it, though. Toys should adhere to a different set of accuracy rules, IMHOThat's only a light you paint my posts in, it's not the actual case 3though. I have no problem when Hasbro cuts SOME corners, I like the Dagobah X-wing, the B-wing, the Naboo Fighter, the Republic Gunship, etc., but the Sith Infiltrator at the $20 size will be cutting too many just to fit this small pricepoint - it has no choice. There's nothing particularly fun about misshapen stuff like the short-winged TIE Fighter, the Hasbro Outrider or minirigs like this:
http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeIinvarmoredtank.asp
http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeIinvgungansub.asp
http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeIinvsithattackspdr.asp

The Sith Infiltrator will be the first movie ship taken so far out of its pricepoint in the modern line. There was 1 element of character interaction between Maul and the ship in the movie, and the toy cannot come close to replicating that at $20, it's not possible even if it had no nose or wings, there will be no circular doors that slide open, no ramp he can walk down, no doorway he can stand in, no large imposing ship looming behind him much less one that goes over his head.

TheCivilCollector
10-08-2006, 09:18 PM
My argument with the examples that you're showing in the last post is that they're not supposed to be a Droid Tank, Gungan Sub, or Sith Infiltrator. They are like the Minirigs we enjoyed when we were kids- Essentially small "knock-offs" of larger crafts at a very low price-point.

Honestly, if there were ever ANY toys that were obviously SQUARELY geared towards kids(as opposed to collectors), it would be those.

And, why would someone playing with a toy be limited to merely re-enacting moments from the film? That doesn't make any sense. My experience is that kids don't limit themselves to diorama builing with toys.

Bacta Beast
10-08-2006, 09:44 PM
My argument with the examples that you're showing in the last post is that they're not supposed to be a Droid Tank, Gungan Sub, or Sith Infiltrator. They are like the Minirigs we enjoyed when we were kids- Essentially small "knock-offs" of larger crafts at a very low price-point.

And, why would someone playing with a toy be limited to merely re-enacting moments from the film? That doesn't make any sense. My experience is that kids don't limit themselves to diorama builing with toys.

I agree with you about those "invasion Force" offerings, and I can even see them having a definte appeal to the kids. I can easily imagine a kid asking his (let's be honest) parents for one and getting approval. However...

This Sith Infiltrator situation is ridiculous. I know that's talking pretty loud when we haven't even seen the proto type yet, but I think most of us agree that at $20 Hasbro isn't going to give us fairly sizeble ship. This is the first time that Hasbro has made a new sculpt for a ship seen on screen, that the online community is actually strong enough to attempt to get Hasbro's attention. The Maria Celeste came out when many folks didn't have online access yet. And at least they didn't try to cram that one into a $20 box.



In a nut shell I think the Infiltrater should be at the 39.99 price mark and should be in a box the size of the gunship.

Agreed, but I would be willing to go another $10 just to be safe.:thumbsup:



Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us on this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

I think alot of us are in agreement that Hasbro is making a big mistake with this one. and that many of us are willing to pay more (within reason) for a more correctly scaled vehicle.

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 09:46 PM
And, why would someone playing with a toy be limited to merely re-enacting moments from the film? That doesn't make any sense. My experience is that kids don't limit themselves to diorama builing with toys.It's the foundation for toy sales in lines like this, kids use the movies as their basis for play patterns.


Here are some examples I whipped up to give an idea of realistic concerns over the scales we're talking about at this $20 pricepoint...

Darth Maul figure in comparison to the movie Sith Infiltrator:


14638
Hasbro Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter Scale

14640
Hasbro TIE Fighter Scale

14639
Movie Scale

(I could accept something halfway between that TIE Fighter scale and movie scale, but really, there would be sacrifices elsewhere even then.)

Top-view of vehicle in relation to cockpit:


14642
Hasbro $20 Scale

14641
Normal Movie Scale
(I hope I'm wrong about that, but at $20 fitting 1 figure in the cockpit, I don't see how I could be, and I don't see how any of the compromises at this $20 pricepoint I've shown in this post could be acceptable to anybody.)

Tycho
10-08-2006, 10:34 PM
I still don't have any problem with the way the TIE Fighter cockpit sized Infiltrator was scaled to the Maul figure in JT"s picture. This is exactly what I expected.

The Sith Infiltrator is not an AT-TE or Turbo Tank to me, let alone a Sailbarge or Tantive IV.

And it's not the first new movie mold since whenever - we got what? 4? last year:

ARC-170
E3 Jedi Starfighter
Droid Tri-Fighter
Grievous' wheelbike

Not to mention smaller molds like the BARC Speeder, Wookiee Flyer, ATRT, etc.

Bacta Beast
10-08-2006, 10:58 PM
And it's not the first new movie mold since whenever - we got what? 4? last year:
ARC-170
E3 Jedi Starfighter
Droid Tri-Fighter
Grievous' wheelbike
Not to mention smaller molds like the BARC Speeder, Wookiee Flyer, ATRT, etc.

Sorry, I should have specified more. I just meant that in relation to the figures, this is the first time that I can think of that they've really screwed up the size of one of the movie vehicles that we've been able to find out about it in enought time to possibly get Hasbro's attention to get them to listen. I know the Gunships could have been bigger but in comparison to the mistake they're making with the Infiltrator, it's not quite as drastic. Know what I mean?


I still don't have any problem with the way the TIE Fighter cockpit sized Infiltrator was scaled to the Maul figure in JT"s picture. This is exactly what I expected.
The Sith Infiltrator is not an AT-TE or Turbo Tank to me, let alone a Sailbarge or Tantive IV.

I agree that it's reasonable to expect soemthing a little smaller than what would be accurate, but I feel that the size of the $20 price point is way too small!

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 11:48 PM
I still don't have any problem with the way the TIE Fighter cockpit sized Infiltrator was scaled to the Maul figure in JT"s picture. This is exactly what I expected.Those doors, how will they work? And did you look at the overhead shot I posted? The smaller one will be more like the version you're expecting, all chibi and sad like that.

TheCivilCollector
10-09-2006, 12:07 AM
I took the time to illustrate exactly why what I think will and won't work in regards to this toy. Here's a series of orthographic drawings and the accurate measurements of what the toy would be if the particular size was used. Sorry for the bad compression, had to sqeeze it to attach it here. Maul is in the lower left corner for scale.

First up, here's 1:18, about exactly what the size would be if the toy was 1:1 with the figure. A ship this big would be ridiculous. Over 80" long and the dome would be larger than a blow-up beach-ball.
14644

Next, if the diameter of the dome is about 7", and the proportions of the ship are correct. It would be about 34" long, longer than the Naboo Starship. This would easily be the biggest this thing would ever get made.
14645

This is what I think we'll be getting. About a 4 3/4" dome, and the proportions scaled back to a reasonable degree. It would be about 16" long. I also added a pic of how the doors COULD work, similar to the clamshell-like function of the current tie, but located on the rear of the hull. They could easily make the seat pull out to accomidate the figure.
14646

Tycho
10-09-2006, 12:34 AM
TheCivilCollector: I really, really, really appreciate the effort that went into your illustrating the Sith Infiltrator toy options, and I agree with your picture labels (what we could get, what we probably are getting, etc.)

I still have no problem with the scale of the last picture (the $20 ship size) and how the doors work on it, etc. That's all I expected of this vehicle. The interior was never even seen in the movie. It is going to sell with Darth Maul's name, basically.

It is different from a sailbarge which must accomodate:

Luke Jedi
Leia Slave
Jabba the Hutt
Bar-2-D-2
C-3PO
Bib Fortuna
Klaatu
Weequay
Nikto
Barada (or a Klatoonian)
Gamorrean Guard (really multiples, but...)
Ree-Yees
Tessek
a Jawa
Boba Fett
Salacious Crumb
Max Rebo
Sy Snootles
Droopy McCool
Saelt Marae
etc. (I'm going by who I remember seeing on the barge in the movie, not Palace characters explicitly)

By contrast, with the Sith Infiltrator - all that I expect of it is that Darth Maul can sit in it. Recreating a scene with him standing by himself outside of the craft is almost lame as well - especially when you compare it to what you can do with a sailbarge that can hold the figures listed above.

Phantom-like Menace
10-09-2006, 01:20 AM
JT, since we are two of the Chickens Little in this story of impending doom, I feel I should warn you about your warnings.


And as for TRU, no doubt they've made some stupendous business blunders, and big hunters WM and Target have been eroding their business base, but TRU is the center of the toy industry, if TRU folds the toy industry will splinter and implode. Without TRU there would be no year-round toy business, the toy departments are a low-return nuisance to WM & Target, they only keep them around to entice housewives into coming in to buy their kid a toy and walking out with a microwave oven, and WM has been considering shrinking their toy sections and even eliminating them except during the holiday season, neither company wants what is best for the toy industry, they only want what is cheapest and most effective for them to get customers into their doors so they can point them to other sections of the store that are more profitable.

While this scenario terrifies me beyond the capacity for rational thought and sounds completely plausible, anyone who reads this will read, "Wal-Mart and Target are making heroic efforts to give you toys in the price ranges of free, for a smile, and cheap and are more than willing to do anything required including 'innovative decision making' to provide you with low prices. Toys R Us, though is still living in the stone age where goods and services were expected to be exchanged for money."


The Sith Infiltrator will be the first movie ship taken so far out of its pricepoint in the modern line.

You should realize that this will be read as "The Sith Infiltrator will be the first ship taken out of perfect 1:18 scale ever in life."

jedi master sal
10-09-2006, 09:28 AM
And as for TRU, no doubt they've made some stupendous business blunders, and big hunters WM and Target have been eroding their business base, but TRU is the center of the toy industry, if TRU folds the toy industry will splinter and implode. Without TRU there would be no year-round toy business, the toy departments are a low-return nuisance to WM & Target, they only keep them around to entice housewives into coming in to buy their kid a toy and walking out with a microwave oven, and WM has been considering shrinking their toy sections and even eliminating them except during the holiday season, neither company wants what is best for the toy industry, they only want what is cheapest and most effective for them to get customers into their doors so they can point them to other sections of the store that are more profitable.


Hmm, I retract my previous statement and will say that this is possibly the best post here on SSG.

Jargo
10-09-2006, 09:48 AM
Hasbro will pretty much just scale up the action fleet version so it'll have a top opening like a TIE fighter. it's cheaper to have that than add two hinges on the back to gt maul in. They'll probably use a mechanism similar to the one used for AOTC jedi starfighters on the wings.
the rear of the ship provides ample space to throw in a missile firing mechanism (probably innaccurate undetailed mini dark eye probe droids)
while the landing gear only needs to be manual pull down/push up. thus saving cost on fiddly mechanisms. or better still have it permanently deployed.
Maul himself ocupies the front of the sphere cockpit (painted red inside rather than bother with any cool electronics to get the red glow) with his legs ending up inside the nose.
The whole thing is cast in polythene plastic rather than sturdier types and overall looks rather cheap. Paint deco is minimal and applied so thinly you can see through it.

haha. I'll carp myself if that turns out to be even partly accurate.

JediTricks
10-09-2006, 05:28 PM
This is what I think we'll be getting. About a 4 3/4" dome, and the proportions scaled back to a reasonable degree. It would be about 16" long. I also added a pic of how the doors COULD work, similar to the clamshell-like function of the current tie, but located on the rear of the hull. They could easily make the seat pull out to accomidate the figure.
14646Those doors made me sad, it looks like Yoda's escape pod in ROTS, and the engines being right in the middle of the doors makes no sense.


While this scenario terrifies me beyond the capacity for rational thought and sounds completely plausible, anyone who reads this will read, "Wal-Mart and Target are making heroic efforts to give you toys in the price ranges of free, for a smile, and cheap and are more than willing to do anything required including 'innovative decision making' to provide you with low prices. Toys R Us, though is still living in the stone age where goods and services were expected to be exchanged for money."If they can't understand that Target & WM don't want to be in the toy business and since they feel obligated they want to make toys less quality, they deserve to suffer I guess. But that's the bottom line: Target & WM don't like toys, they want as few toys as possible, and they want them to be as poor quality as they can force on the market to lower their costs.


You should realize that this will be read as "The Sith Infiltrator will be the first ship taken out of perfect 1:18 scale ever in life."I can't help that they're rewriting whatever we say to fit their presumptions, you and I know that's not what it says, if they're so stupid they can't tell the difference between "perfect scale!" and "the Sith Infiltrator being markedly smaller than any other Star Wars vehicle toy in the line's pricepoint system" then they have no argument anyway because their argument's foundation is totally flawed due to them being incapable of reading beyond their own preformed opinions.



Hmm, I retract my previous statement and will say that this is possibly the best post here on SSG.This is a tad out of character for me, but... Woot! :D

TheCivilCollector
10-09-2006, 05:56 PM
Those doors made me sad, it looks like Yoda's escape pod in ROTS, and the engines being right in the middle of the doors makes no sense.

Man, this is getting frustrating. No, I didn't take the time to fully render a solution or make an engineering schematic regarding exactly how the doors would work. I kind of assumed people might figure out that the engines (which are molded plastic) might be attaced to the doors. If you can't envision how that would work, I can't help you.

Based on the size this would be, there's TWO ways this "door" would work- either a panel (or two) on hinges, or a panel mounted on fold-out struts. I'm betting on the former. It could be mounted on top or back, and any pieces attached to that section would obviously fold away, or be mounted to the door.

The only reason I even made those orthos (and measured to scale) was to show people why a correctly-scaled infiltrator would NOT work. I can't imagine an 80" toy doing much more than sitting there, can you? Even a 34" toy is ridiculous, given that most of the kids playing with it would have difficulty holding it up.

JediTricks
10-09-2006, 06:16 PM
Man, this is getting frustrating. No, I didn't take the time to fully render a solution or make an engineering schematic regarding exactly how the doors would work. I kind of assumed people might figure out that the engines (which are molded plastic) might be attaced to the doors. If you can't envision how that would work, I can't help you.You are spinning your wheels, it's not that I can't envision the engines there, I said it doesn't make sense to have them in the middle of doors. You are reinterpretting what I said.


The only reason I even made those orthos (and measured to scale) was to show people why a correctly-scaled infiltrator would NOT work. I can't imagine an 80" toy doing much more than sitting there, can you? Even a 34" toy is ridiculous, given that most of the kids playing with it would have difficulty holding it up.Then you wasted your time, nobody here was calling for a correctly-scaled Sith Infiltrator - that was just your presumption - the arguments were that the toy cannot be well-represented by the $20 pricepoint, that it'd have to be at least the $30 pricepoint to be even remotely close to its movie incarnation and still interact with the figure.

Turbowars
10-09-2006, 11:03 PM
I'm really regretting posting this thread..........
No matter where I go there's misunderstandings and people getting all upset because they don't agree with you.

Phantom-like Menace
10-10-2006, 05:57 AM
Man, this is getting frustrating. No, I didn't take the time to fully render a solution or make an engineering schematic regarding exactly how the doors would work. I kind of assumed people might figure out that the engines (which are molded plastic) might be attaced to the doors. If you can't envision how that would work, I can't help you.

It's not that he doesn't understand that the inside edges of a double set of doors hinged at the far left and far right edges of each door respectively will bisect engines that are molded onto the outside of, or even as part of, the doors, it's that he doesn't find that arrangement especially logical, though he can correct me if I'm wrong. He can understand it and still not agree it's a good idea. He could even agree that your arrangement is the best idea for an unnecessarily small scale Infiltrator, but the doors wouldn't need that sort of compromise if it weren't so underscaled.

jedi master sal
10-10-2006, 08:31 AM
It's not that he doesn't understand that the inside edges of a double set of doors hinged at the far left and far right edges of each door respectively will bisect engines that are molded onto the outside of, or even as part of, the doors, it's that he doesn't find that arrangement especially logical, though he can correct me if I'm wrong. He can understand it and still not agree it's a good idea. He could even agree that your arrangement is the best idea for an unnecessarily small scale Infiltrator, but the doors wouldn't need that sort of compromise if it weren't so underscaled.


Slightly confusing, but well said....

pegger
10-10-2006, 09:05 AM
I'm really regretting posting this thread..........
No matter where I go there's misunderstandings and people getting all upset because they don't agree with you.

lol - sorry to laugh...sounds like the state of the world...not just this thread.

TheCivilCollector
10-10-2006, 04:09 PM
lol - sorry to laugh...sounds like the state of the world...not just this thread.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing.

Really, I'm not tweaked on anything in particular. When I said I was frustrated, I meant that I thought I wasn't getting my point across.

Anyway, If we all agreed about everything, it would be a boring discussion thread.

Imagine:

Me: "I like this new figure!"
P-LM: "Me too!"
JT: "I concur!"
Turbo: "Sure is!"
Peg: "Yep!"
lol

Personally, I like a little debate about something. Keeps the wits sharp. :thumbsup:

Tycho
10-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Well I've written the President of Iran and Kim Jong II asking them to post their opinion about the Sith Infiltrator here, too.

pegger
10-10-2006, 04:37 PM
Well I've written the President of Iran and Kim Jong II asking them to post their opinion about the Sith Infiltrator here, too.

LOL.... Just don't ask Georgie...Cause then we'd all have to agree....

mabudonicus
10-10-2006, 04:40 PM
(with apologies to KH)

looks good I'm getting one :beard:Isobars&

Phantom-like Menace
10-10-2006, 04:57 PM
Slightly confusing, but well said....

Yeah . . . it seems in this thread the devil--and possibly all of his minions--is in the details.

Jargo
10-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Haha, I was thinking the same thing.

Really, I'm not tweaked on anything in particular. When I said I was frustrated, I meant that I thought I wasn't getting my point across.

Anyway, If we all agreed about everything, it would be a boring discussion thread.

Imagine:

Me: "I like this new figure!"
P-LM: "Me too!"
JT: "I concur!"
Turbo: "Sure is!"
Peg: "Yep!"
lol

Personally, I like a little debate about something. Keeps the wits sharp. :thumbsup:
well that is why it's a forum not a fanclub. some people seem a little confused on that though.

Turbowars
10-10-2006, 07:05 PM
Christ here we go again. I never said I wanted everyone to kiss each others @ss like they do at Sideshowfreaks.

TheCivilCollector
10-10-2006, 07:39 PM
I never said I wanted everyone to kiss each others @ss like they do at Sideshowfreaks.

Ok, I'll start it again:

Whatever you guys think, I disagree with.

::commence debate::::thumbsup:

dindae
10-10-2006, 08:04 PM
Ok, I'll start it again:

Whatever you guys think, I disagree with.

::commence debate::::thumbsup:

I agree with you completely. :D

Jargo
10-10-2006, 08:29 PM
I abstain. and refrain.

JediTricks
10-11-2006, 03:38 PM
Well I've written the President of Iran and Kim Jong II asking them to post their opinion about the Sith Infiltrator here, too.
It's "Kim Jong Il", now the post office will never deliver your letter.



LOL.... Just don't ask Georgie...Cause then we'd all have to agree....That addle-brained looney? :crazed:

Tycho
10-11-2006, 04:19 PM
It's "Kim Jong Il", now the post office will never deliver your letter.


Maybe that's why we haven't heard from him yet?

Actually, his name is just begging to be made fun of. Suppose he gets the Bird Flu, then he'll be Kim Jong's Ill! Hahahahaha. I'm so funny!

JediTricks
10-11-2006, 04:51 PM
Maybe he did get your letter and it's what prompted the nuclear testing.

pegger
10-11-2006, 05:16 PM
Maybe he did get your letter and it's what prompted the nuclear testing.

Way to go Tycho. :upset:

kool-aid killer
02-05-2007, 12:12 AM
Seen this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280078105859

Whats your thoughts?

Turbowars
02-05-2007, 12:21 AM
If that's hasbro's,it sucks @ss.

bigbarada
02-05-2007, 12:30 AM
Seen this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280078105859

Whats your thoughts?

Actually pretty cool. :thumbsup:

I have no real interest in this vehicle, but if that really is the prototype, then I'd buy one.

Slicker
02-05-2007, 12:55 AM
I've never heard nor read about any unproduced Sith Infiltrator but the action feature gimmick does have Hasbro written all over it.

Bacta Beast
02-05-2007, 06:24 AM
It figures that they would waste money on action features that they could spend on accuracy. Let's hope that this really has been cancelled in favor of a larger version.

13"?!!!!!!!!! That's it?!!!!!!!

Tycho
02-05-2007, 06:38 AM
That's exactly the size and expectations I had for this vehicle.

I don't think it was cancelled. I think the seller has embellished his auction so he makes some money on it now before the toy comes out at Toy Fair or Comic Con.

For a non-important character's "character-specific vehicle," this is fine for being exactly what it is supposed to be.

If they made the Gungan Bongo, for an alternate example, it would have to be larger to hold 3 figures. Inaccurate, yes. But you're never going to get a Sith Infiltrator the size of the Royal Starship. The vehicle just doesn't warrant that.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. You never have to have one. Let the rest of us who want it enjoy it though.

JEDIpartner
02-05-2007, 09:16 AM
I had no doubts that it would be this small. I really don't know what people were expecting. Realistically, this ship SHOULD at least be the size of the Naboo Royal Starship but, I think those of us with heads realised it woldn't be that big. Well, there you go. There's your Sith Infiltrator. Now, please stop asking Hasbro to make things you know they are going to completely disappoint you with.

Jargo
02-05-2007, 10:57 AM
defeatist attitude.

I say let's wait til toyfair or comicon.

kool-aid killer
02-05-2007, 11:18 AM
That's exactly the size and expectations I had for this vehicle.

I don't think it was cancelled. I think the seller has embellished his auction so he makes some money on it now before the toy comes out at Toy Fair or Comic Con.

For a non-important character's "character-specific vehicle," this is fine for being exactly what it is supposed to be.

If they made the Gungan Bongo, for an alternate example, it would have to be larger to hold 3 figures. Inaccurate, yes. But you're never going to get a Sith Infiltrator the size of the Royal Starship. The vehicle just doesn't warrant that.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. You never have to have one. Let the rest of us who want it enjoy it though.

Ebay sellers are known to call common stuff "rare" and "VHTF" im sure this guy is no different and the ship hasnt gotten the axe. Personally, i think the ship looks good. There is no reason for it to be the size of the Royal Starship. Why? Just to hold Mauls speeder? The action feature isnt very thrilling, but i'll just keep it closed up.

plasticfetish
02-05-2007, 11:40 AM
That's exactly what I expected it to look like, and for a $20 vehicle (if that's really what it turns out to be) it's not half bad.

bigbarada
02-05-2007, 12:16 PM
It's a ship for a one-movie character, it was never involved in any battles or chase sequences. It's simply Darth Maul's mode of transportation from Coruscant to Tatooine.

Add to that, most kids have forgotten that it exists by now and you have a vehicle that we are lucky Hasbro is making at all.

Tycho
02-05-2007, 12:19 PM
defeatist attitude.

I say let's wait til toyfair or comicon.

Translation: "I'm not content with just being disappointed now! I want to be disappointed again later in the month and perhaps in July as well!" :thumbsup:

I think Kool-Aid Killer, JediPartnr, BigBarada, and PlasticFetish are all being very realistic about this.

I wish Hasbro would make products that we are ALL satisfied with Jargo, but this IS Hasbro we are talking about - and even transferring the 12" license to SideShow hasn't worked out completely well in that arena either.

The other issue relates to the movie fiction: If the Naboo Royal Starship requires a crew for its maintainence, what does Darth Maul do with a ship that big? Sith like Maul work alone (though "Tyranus" would probably have someone vallet park it were that ship his). So perhaps if Vader has a black R2 unit at the least (according to EU), then maybe Maul has a crew of droids running about his ship? I could see that. But otherwise, I don't see much of a need for Darth Maul to have a ship larger than a small star yacht, perhaps the size of Padme's second ship (taken to Geonosis) in AOTC or smaller still, like her craft in ROTS.

So the next logical complaints over a ship the size of the Naboo Royal Starship, but for Darth Maul, would be either "too much wasted empty space," or "too much EU that was never revealed in the movie."

I'm just illustrating that so many things could occur with this craft that point to it being much more logical to keep this at the $20 price point.

The alternative is to not produce it at all - and that would upset at least 5 people here, and probably many more. So if you're in business like Hasbro, and you can possibly turn a profit with a product (inferior or not), why not put it on the market?

I mean furthermore - if the thing is a sell-out success and further market research indicates you could sell a larger one (as so many clamor for a new Millennium Falcon that this would be a logical ship to upgrade), then why not re-do it later (the Sith Infiltrator) and sell it to everyone again?

I'm one of the few people around here who don't buy movie figure upgrades. Hehe. They repaint the Gamorrean Guard in 2004 and admittedly, it looks better. So PUN INTENDED, many of you go "hog wild" over the figure. It's moreso the case with your purchases of Luke, Han, Vader and Chewie figures. I rarely buy those. They're actually tempting me with that stand they made out of Obi-Wan's empty robe :rolleyes: (translation: I'm being a stupid idiot with $7).

But the Sith Infiltrator has produced one of the most vehement debates I've ever seen for a vehicle not yet even shown in final form. If they made the droid gunship from Kashyyyk (one can hope), we all wouldn't be this particular over it. The funny thing is, we all liked what they did with the AOTC Slave-One as far as I can remember. That thing is way undersized, but everyone seemed to joyfully buy it and it could have had all the features of both the E5 and E2 ships combined in a larger version of it (with prisoner cages inside as well) and been completely awesome (it's still one of Hasbro's best ships - the AOTC version). But here drudges on this silly debate about an even less-important vehicle. :rolleyes:

DarkArtist
02-05-2007, 01:28 PM
I have a feeling that this auction might be for a prototype that was thought of back in 99 when TPM was the hot Star Wars Product, but it was cancelled since the shelves were warming with Naboo Starship and the Pod Racers.
I think this is yet another wait and see the Toy Fair Coverage.
In the pics it's looks like they tried to merge the AOTC Jedi Starfighter with the Sith Inflitrator to make some kind of attack feature. I just hope that Hasbro does some justice and gives us a decent ship for the $20 price tag.

Jargo
02-05-2007, 01:31 PM
I'm too tired to read that. and you're putting words in my mouth the same as you do with everyone you disagree with. I simply posted two separate comments. If you wish to invent an entire dialogue and wallow in your fantasy world then fine. your post (the first two sentences i could be bothered to read) bears no relation to my thoughts in any way shape or form. end of discussion.

mtriv73
02-05-2007, 01:48 PM
I have a feeling that this auction might be for a prototype that was thought of back in 99 when TPM was the hot Star Wars Product, but it was cancelled since the shelves were warming with Naboo Starship and the Pod Racers.
I think this is yet another wait and see the Toy Fair Coverage.
In the pics it's looks like they tried to merge the AOTC Jedi Starfighter with the Sith Inflitrator to make some kind of attack feature. I just hope that Hasbro does some justice and gives us a decent ship for the $20 price tag.


If a prototype did exist back then, I'd be willing to bet Hasbro would reuse for the upcoming release. It costs them a lot of money to get to the prototype stage and they really don't stand to gain that much more by making a new one.

I think it looks okay for a $20 vehicle. I'd rather pay $45 or $50 and get a better one. But, as was said before, kids probably don't remember/care about it and wouldn't shell out that kind of money. At this point, I doubt I'll buy it. I may change my mind after toyfair though.

sicqnus
02-05-2007, 04:10 PM
I think it looks nice. Once "closed", it's pretty accurate. We are lucky to get this obscure vehicle during the dark era of the non-movie years. Hasbro said a few months ago that this vehicle will be made (and a V-Wing as well).
I too think it will be unveiled at ToyFair.

El Chuxter
02-05-2007, 04:31 PM
Did anyone notice that the guy selling the "cancelled" Sith Infiltrator prototype is also selling a Marvel Legends WWF Sting?

Hmmmmmm.... Curiouser and curiouser.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-05-2007, 05:42 PM
It's a ship for a one-movie character, it was never involved in any battles or chase sequences. It's simply Darth Maul's mode of transportation from Coruscant to Tatooine.

Add to that, most kids have forgotten that it exists by now and you have a vehicle that we are lucky Hasbro is making at all.
Agreed. It's not a particularly exciting vehicle on-screen, and I'm just glad we're getting it at all. If the eBay one is the actual Hasbro one, then I think it looks pretty nice. :)

JediTricks
02-05-2007, 06:46 PM
What is it with Hasbro not making the front landing gear fold away on this ship? They've done it with every incarnation to date now, as did the Galoob guys.

Looks like there will be missiles in the nose when it splits apart, and missiles in the wing nacelles. It also looks like the wings will spring open on their own.

As a toy taken out of context of Star Wars and the movies, this looks like it might be a fun item, and has some good sculpting, and on that level I will likely get it. HOWEVER, the cockpit shot and 13" size tell the real tale, this thing will be SMALL, about the same size if maybe a little wider than the Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter, a Darth Maul figure will likely be at least 1/3rd taller than the cockpit ball -- that kills the contextual performance of this item which is why it would exist in the first place. Am I surprised? No, I said as much when we were discussing this the first time around.



If that's hasbro's,it sucks.Agreed! And I believe this is the one we'll be getting soon.


the action feature gimmick does have Hasbro written all over it.Absolutely agreed! It reeks of Hasbro's style of action feature design.


It figures that they would waste money on action features that they could spend on accuracy. Let's hope that this really has been cancelled in favor of a larger version.

13"?!!!!!!!!! That's it?!!!!!!!I don't believe it's been canceled, but the rest I totally agree with, action figures that are WAY outside what the ship design called for and a 13" size rather than any pretense of scale.


I had no doubts that it would be this small. I really don't know what people were expecting. Realistically, this ship SHOULD at least be the size of the Naboo Royal Starship but, I think those of us with heads realised it woldn't be that big. Well, there you go. There's your Sith Infiltrator. Now, please stop asking Hasbro to make things you know they are going to completely disappoint you with.That's an interesting point, some of us did realize this would disappoint and didn't want them to make it, now they have and we'll get to move on to the next potential disappointment machine's discussion. I'm not sure folks should stop dreaming of stuff like the AT-TE, but Star Destroyers should probably be out.


I have a feeling that this auction might be for a prototype that was thought of back in 99 when TPM was the hot Star Wars Product, but it was cancelled since the shelves were warming with Naboo Starship and the Pod Racers.
I think this is yet another wait and see the Toy Fair Coverage.
In the pics it's looks like they tried to merge the AOTC Jedi Starfighter with the Sith Inflitrator to make some kind of attack feature. I just hope that Hasbro does some justice and gives us a decent ship for the $20 price tag.This is nothing like Hasbro's vehicle design from '99 though, it's much more like the '02 and later designs when they threw in more play features that didn't appear in the movies. I think this is the real deal.

dindae
02-05-2007, 07:18 PM
The size is my biggest issue with this ship and since they stated it will be $20 I knew I would be dissappoint in the ship. It may be a different mold that is shown at Toy Fair but I don't think it will be any bigger. I understand the reasons why Hasbro won't want to make this bigger but it doesn't make it any better of a ship it just means this is the best I'm going to get.

Devo
02-05-2007, 08:12 PM
I have every confidence that that is Hasbro's one and its as underwhelming as I expected. Tiny Sith Infiltrator = Crap and fairly pointless in my book. Pass.

Darth Cruel
02-05-2007, 10:34 PM
Ya know? I am completely at peace with the scaling down of the ship. I wanted a fighter-type ship for Maul and the normal-scale Infiltrator is too big to be a fighter on par with the Jedi Starfighter. In my head, Hasbro has given us an EU ship and has not yet made the real Sith Infiltrator.

TheCivilCollector
02-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Well, it could've been worse.....

They could have made the Sith Infiltrator as some kind of wacky transforming robot........

::EDIT::Oh, they took down the ebay auction, which makes me believe they were going to premiere it at ToyFare.

JEDIpartner
02-06-2007, 11:05 AM
That's an interesting point, some of us did realize this would disappoint and didn't want them to make it, now they have and we'll get to move on to the next potential disappointment machine's discussion. I'm not sure folks should stop dreaming of stuff like the AT-TE, but Star Destroyers should probably be out.

Oh, yeah... a Star Destroyer is definitely not something they would do right. If they attempted it, they could make it a play environment the way-- was it Playmates who had the Star Trek license? the Enterprise bridge was made. I would be chuffed if they had a play platform with two crew pits, a couple of wall panels and the rest of the set being a bank of windows. They could then make a small Vader's Chamber play environment with two walls that featured a door on one and a viewscreen on the other and his Meditation Chamber as the main part. This environment could connect to the main bridge set or exist as a stand-alone.

I see the AT-TE being made as a three-figure vehicle around the length and width of the Sith Infiltrator. The cockpit would lift open to reveal two seats for the pilots and would hinge behind the main cannon on top. The back would also hinge near the centre of the unit and there would be a gunner seat for the rear cannon. Granted, this would be completely out of scale and nowhere near the size of the AT-AT, but I think it's something they could accomplish.

DarkArtist
02-06-2007, 12:52 PM
Oh, yeah... a Star Destroyer is definitely not something they would do right. If they attempted it, they could make it a play environment the way-- was it Playmates who had the Star Trek license? the Enterprise bridge was made. I would be chuffed if they had a play platform with two crew pits, a couple of wall panels and the rest of the set being a bank of windows. They could then make a small Vader's Chamber play environment with two walls that featured a door on one and a viewscreen on the other and his Meditation Chamber as the main part. This environment could connect to the main bridge set or exist as a stand-alone.

I see the AT-TE being made as a three-figure vehicle around the length and width of the Sith Infiltrator. The cockpit would lift open to reveal two seats for the pilots and would hinge behind the main cannon on top. The back would also hinge near the centre of the unit and there would be a gunner seat for the rear cannon. Granted, this would be completely out of scale and nowhere near the size of the AT-AT, but I think it's something they could accomplish.

I like these ideas and would be on board for them if they saw production. But according to Hasbro they don't want to make playsets since they don't sell and the Star Destroyer sets you mentioned would fall into the playset catagory.

I really wish Hasbro would give up the reigns on the vehicles and playsets to perhaps another compnay as long as that company kept them within the 3 3/4line.

mtriv73
02-06-2007, 01:15 PM
::EDIT::Oh, they took down the ebay auction, which makes me believe they were going to premiere it at ToyFare.

I agree. If it really was a preproduction piece then it is the property of Hasbro and this guy would have had to steal it to sell it. Hasbro probably got miffed and made e-bay cancel it. :bandit: :whip:

kool-aid killer
02-06-2007, 02:12 PM
Did anyone notice that the guy selling the "cancelled" Sith Infiltrator prototype is also selling a Marvel Legends WWF Sting?

Hmmmmmm.... Curiouser and curiouser.

Back when i first posted the link, i was searching for prototypes of various toy lines. Then i ran into some of his/her auctions. Everything he/her had up on ebay was what they claimed were protoypes of action figures. Maybe they know someone in the biz.

JEDIpartner
02-06-2007, 02:13 PM
I like these ideas and would be on board for them if they saw production. But according to Hasbro they don't want to make playsets since they don't sell and the Star Destroyer sets you mentioned would fall into the playset catagory.

I really wish Hasbro would give up the reigns on the vehicles and playsets to perhaps another compnay as long as that company kept them within the 3 3/4line.

I know... I was just thinking out loud. As for the AT-TE, I think that would be the only way they could go with that.

Tycho
02-06-2007, 02:35 PM
I see the AT-TE being made as a three-figure vehicle around the length and width of the Sith Infiltrator. The cockpit would lift open to reveal two seats for the pilots and would hinge behind the main cannon on top. The back would also hinge near the centre of the unit and there would be a gunner seat for the rear cannon. Granted, this would be completely out of scale and nowhere near the size of the AT-AT, but I think it's something they could accomplish.


This would be perfect for me and my diorama! I see the AT-TE's main body being about the size of the ARC-170. I just hope it stands tall enough on its 6 legs that more troops can march underneathe it. Perhaps a rear segment would open and seat 4 more figures so it would be a "True Troop Transport." But I don't think I'd actually buy more Clones to occupy those seats as you couldn't tell they were in use when the vehicle's shell was closed up. If it did open, it could be top loading, or side-loading like the AT-AT, but again, I wouldn't care too much as it would not be a feature I'd use.

All it would accomplish is give my GAR on Geonosis more firepower on the ground that would be representative of something authentic in the movie.

In turn, they could give the Separatists something more (and far more cheaply) in the form of a large homing spider droid toy.

A star destroyer would have to be between 7-9 feet long and completely cover up like the exterior of the actual ship. I have a design to build one in the future, similar to how many eBay customizers have done theirs. A thread with pictures exists. I made the Blockade Runner exactly as I'd want it and it was 5 feet long. Features included a working escape pod you boarded from within the ship, a turret cannon with a seat for a Fleet trooper, boarding hatch doors, and a cockpit area with seats and controls (cannibalized from the Millennium Falcon keyboard cover CD-ROM playset). I always needed to fill in the rear engineering areas of the ship to simulate where Leia was hiding.
My ship could hold about 40 figures - the majority Stormtroopers and Fleet Troopers locked in combat.

I don't expect anything grand out of an AT-TE or TurboTank. I just want to fill in my dioramas for between $100 and $50.

TheCivilCollector
02-06-2007, 05:47 PM
I made the Blockade Runner exactly as I'd want it and it was 5 feet long. Features included a working escape pod you boarded from within the ship, a turret cannon with a seat for a Fleet trooper, boarding hatch doors, and a cockpit area with seats and controls (cannibalized from the Millennium Falcon keyboard cover CD-ROM playset). I always needed to fill in the rear engineering areas of the ship to simulate where Leia was hiding.
My ship could hold about 40 figures - the majority Stormtroopers and Fleet Troopers locked in combat.

Kudos! I really respect fans that customize stuff for themselves they know will never see the light of day. I remember pics of that (I think it was you). Awesome stuff. If I didn't have my studio taking up half my apartment, I'd do something similar.

Anyone remember that brilliant freak (I say fondly) that did the 1:1 Blackade runner? Thing was bigger than a minivan.

Tycho
02-06-2007, 06:59 PM
Thanks for the compliments. Yes I wanted to make it like an expensive TOY in the tradition of the USS Flag (GI Joe) or something.



Anyone remember that brilliant freak (I say fondly) that did the 1:1 Blackade runner? Thing was bigger than a minivan.

That was Michael Fright (appropriately named, though I've been told that's not his real last name, but a joke at his own expense).

He bought a semi-truck rig which he custom-painted in Darth Maul's tattoos to drive it around - presumably to a convention even, though I never saw it at any of the Star Wars Celebrations.

I think the thing was at a 1:1 scale to the figures, but I don't know if it could actually interact with them or how he allowed access to a lot of the interiors.

Mine was small enough I could use a removeable top like the Millennium Falcon toy to keep with tradition.

Phantom-like Menace
02-07-2007, 12:28 AM
The timing seems fishy for it to actually be a cancelled prototype. They just happen to acquire it and put it on eBay when the actual ship is coming out and it just happens to match the size we've recently been given? I don't buy it. It's too likely a prototype for the Cop-out Scale Collection Sith Infiltrator that is coming up.


In my head, Hasbro has given us an EU ship and has not yet made the real Sith Infiltrator.

Yeah, it kind of makes me smile that so many people hate EU but will accept a ship so radically changed from its on-screen counterpart that it might as well be an EU ship. In my opinion, that's what Hasbro should do. If they want to change things from on-screen so much, just give it a new name and make it a different vehicle. If they refuse to make a proper AT-TE (half the height of the AT-AT toy and just as long would make me happy), then make it smaller and call it the AT-(insert random alphabetic characters here), though quite a few people would automatically say EU sucks and not buy it just because it's not the exact same toy with the AT-TE name applied to it.

Otherwise, I'm still not buying it. It's not as bad as I expected, because the action feature makes it worse than I expected. It's not the Infiltrator, and as much as Darth Maul's starfighter could fit into my collection, I'd rather not tell Hasbro it's okay to continue this unnecessary degree of scale compromise.

Tycho
02-07-2007, 01:12 AM
The AT-AT, first offered in 1981, is not to scale either!

The actual snow walkers they used on Hoth, had two decks in their interior, with seating for 12 troopers on each deck, plus a command officer (2 commanders total), plus storage for several speederbikes (4 I think) in the rear. It was huge and just one of its feet were pretty much larger than a snowspeeder.

So I guess the AT-AT toy is an EU vehicle: the AT-AA (All-Terrain-Awkward-Attempt)?

TheCivilCollector
02-07-2007, 01:28 AM
So I guess the AT-AT toy is an EU vehicle: the AT-AA (All-Terrain-Awkward-Attempt)?

I'm gonna agree there. I think for the most part EVERY vehicle has been out of scale (not that it bothers me, mind you).

I can definitely see where some vehicles should be a little larger, but I think there's been plenty of examples of large vehicles not selling very well. I can totally understand Hasbro wanting to stay in an "impulse buy" price-range.

Tycho
02-07-2007, 02:57 AM
Master Replicas and to an extent, Attikus and Code 3, have all tried to tackle realistic proportions in their various scales they offer their vehicles in.

We don't really think of them as TOY companies.

Hasbro is a toy company and all they are doing is simulating the movie props and making them interact with their figures.

They started the modern line with intentionally "buffed out" figures to attract kids to He-Man Luke Skywalker, but while the kids they entertained came and went, picking up more in 2005 with ROTS than probably at any other time, they got stuck with us adult collectors who form their consistent base. (Kids might still account for more sales - MIGHT - but what we have is adults appreciating children's toys. That's the line.)

So really, some of you ought to start posting that Master Replicas ought to make an AT-TE and Sith Infiltrator.

Realize who Hasbro is and buy or not buy depending upon whether you like each specific Hasbro product. But be realistic with what you expect, and know what you want and what it will probably cost you.

I actually took my 5 foot-something Blockade Runner with all my figures aboard with me to Comic Con 1999 to show Hasbro (SirSteve will tell you - and boy he did not want to be seen with me rolling it on a cart through the con with the Star Wars theme song stuck on repeat in my "ghetto blaster" on the shelf underneathe. I surely make an entrance when I want to!)

But Hasbro, and Steve Sansweet told me right then and there, that this ship would retail for at least $250 if it were produced in any quantity to make it profitable for them.

My ship cost me nearly $700 because of mistakes I made during its production, but it still would have been closer to $500 anyway.

Steve and another friend joked that it's a "child-killer" as if the thing ever fell on a little kid, they'd have a hard time getting out! I used industrial strength irrigation pipe for some of it to ensure durability (it's no flimsy foam-core ship).

However, one can argue that with the adult collector element out there, and buying SideShow, Master Replicas, Code 3 and so forth, premium Hasbro pieces would sell at high prices. I made that argument to Hasbro myself (Andy, Mark Brauedaux, and Darrel DePriest at different times).

Mark was even the one who pointed me in the right direction to see my nemesis, Zizzle's Black Pearl when I whined about Jabba's Sailbarge which could be made at half the size of my Blockade Runner and maybe sold for 1/5 of the price (if on par with Zizzle's piece). Amongst other toys, Mark is responsible for every X-wing that Kenner and Hasbro's ever produced.

Phantom-like Menace
02-07-2007, 03:11 AM
The AT-AT, first offered in 1981, is not to scale either!

Yeah, so I'm, not getting into the discussion about the difference between what I'm saying and what you're reading into it.

RooJay
02-07-2007, 09:44 AM
Master Replicas and to an extent, Attikus and Code 3, have all tried to tackle realistic proportions in their various scales they offer their vehicles in.

We don't really think of them as TOY companies.

Hasbro is a toy company and all they are doing is simulating the movie props and making them interact with their figures.

They started the modern line with intentionally "buffed out" figures to attract kids to He-Man Luke Skywalker, but while the kids they entertained came and went, picking up more in 2005 with ROTS than probably at any other time, they got stuck with us adult collectors who form their consistent base. (Kids might still account for more sales - MIGHT - but what we have is adults appreciating children's toys. That's the line.)

So really, some of you ought to start posting that Master Replicas ought to make an AT-TE and Sith Infiltrator.

Realize who Hasbro is and buy or not buy depending upon whether you like each specific Hasbro product. But be realistic with what you expect, and know what you want and what it will probably cost you.

I actually took my 5 foot-something Blockade Runner with all my figures aboard with me to Comic Con 1999 to show Hasbro (SirSteve will tell you - and boy he did not want to be seen with me rolling it on a cart through the con with the Star Wars theme song stuck on repeat in my "ghetto blaster" on the shelf underneathe. I surely make an entrance when I want to!)

But Hasbro, and Steve Sansweet told me right then and there, that this ship would retail for at least $250 if it were produced in any quantity to make it profitable for them.

My ship cost me nearly $700 because of mistakes I made during its production, but it still would have been closer to $500 anyway.

Steve and another friend joked that it's a "child-killer" as if the thing ever fell on a little kid, they'd have a hard time getting out! I used industrial strength irrigation pipe for some of it to ensure durability (it's no flimsy foam-core ship).

However, one can argue that with the adult collector element out there, and buying SideShow, Master Replicas, Code 3 and so forth, premium Hasbro pieces would sell at high prices. I made that argument to Hasbro myself (Andy, Mark Brauedaux, and Darrel DePriest at different times).

Mark was even the one who pointed me in the right direction to see my nemesis, Zizzle's Black Pearl when I whined about Jabba's Sailbarge which could be made at half the size of my Blockade Runner and maybe sold for 1/5 of the price (if on par with Zizzle's piece). Amongst other toys, Mark is responsible for every X-wing that Kenner and Hasbro's ever produced.

The man makes a very good point. Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on my very own beautifully designed, underscaled, and affordably priced Sith Infiltrator. For the record I'm also completely behind anyone who absolutely refuses to buy one - more for me!:thumbsup:

abell748
02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
"it is not in scale... blah, blah, blah..." Honestly, think of the size of an AT-AT, AT-TE, Sail Barge, Death Star, and Blockade Runner compared to the size of people in the movie. If any of these were truly produced to scale for our 4 inch hunks plastics called TOYS, then we would all need to win the lottery to buy them all plus build a huge place to display them. I happen not to mind the scale too much for Maul's ride. When I display it, I will not open the action feature, much like I did with my EPII jedi starfighters. If you do not want it, great don't get it. Just please stop the bellyaching over scale, we just have to live with it and accept it.:tired:

Turbowars
02-07-2007, 10:00 PM
Wow hasbro, thanks for this 19.99 hunk of junk.

DarkArtist
02-08-2007, 12:53 PM
Wow hasbro, thanks for this 19.99 hunk of junk.

I still think it's too early to judge the ship withouot actually seeing it. perhaps they will reveal it at Toy Fair and blow us all away with it. As far as the prototype, yes it looks alright but not great but you have to remember it is a prototype. hopefully hasbro will work out all the kinks and bugs and give us an incredible ship to add to our fleets.

Jargo
02-08-2007, 03:03 PM
Stick a fork in this thread's butt. It's done.

Tycho
02-08-2007, 05:49 PM
Oh no. We've got several more rounds to go in circles with this as the Toy Fair pictures or Comic Con pictures (whenever they officially show this) get released. Then when the actual vehicle gets released and distribution can be complained over, too. :rolleyes:

I looked back at the first page of this thread which was began in August or September of 2006 and we've seen forum members fighting with each other over this stupid thing ever since.

Isn't the bottom line that the people who are or are not going to buy this, have not at all altered their plans or stance?

Only if what Hasbro reveals or actually ships is significantly different from what we all expect now (not wish for, but actually expect) will anyone's plans change.

However, whomever has not participated in this thread before will start things all over again, I'm sure.

Turbowars
02-08-2007, 07:27 PM
I still think it's too early to judge the ship withouot actually seeing it. perhaps they will reveal it at Toy Fair and blow us all away with it. As far as the prototype, yes it looks alright but not great but you have to remember it is a prototype. hopefully hasbro will work out all the kinks and bugs and give us an incredible ship to add to our fleets.
Some how I have a feeling that hasbro isn't going to double it's size from now to TF.

JediTricks
02-09-2007, 11:11 PM
I still think it's too early to judge the ship withouot actually seeing it. perhaps they will reveal it at Toy Fair and blow us all away with it. As far as the prototype, yes it looks alright but not great but you have to remember it is a prototype. hopefully hasbro will work out all the kinks and bugs and give us an incredible ship to add to our fleets.This doesn't appear to be a prototype, it appears to be a "test shot", running the mold with whatever scrap plastic of the same material properties they have laying around. When you see a test shot it means the tooling is completed.

sergiurusu
02-10-2007, 07:34 AM
Seen this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280078105859

Whats your thoughts?

It seems the auction is off. But I saved some pics from another forum, are these the same?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1093/sithinfiltratorproto01tk9.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1094/sithinfiltratorproto02lv5.jpg

Tycho
02-10-2007, 08:11 AM
Yeah. They're the same. I want that ship!

sicqnus
02-11-2007, 02:07 AM
I've just seen the pics of the V-wing and the Sith Infiltrator* and they both look very nice ! I will probably consider buying them.

*Well... except the Probe Droïds launchers in the wings.

sicqnus
02-11-2007, 02:15 AM
Here's the pic :

Kidhuman
02-11-2007, 02:21 AM
I likeit and think the size is good. I will buy it no second thoughts.

JediTricks
02-11-2007, 02:27 AM
Ha! I didn't notice the probe droid missiles, what a silly entry. :D And it's not even the first probe droid missile. :p


Oh man, you can see in that pic it's near the Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter mold and the JSF looks like it has a bigger cockpit, the Sith Infiltrator's gonna be so small next to a figure because it's all nose. Here's a compare to the V-wing: http://photos.sirstevesguide.com/showphoto.php?photo=20365&cat=5268

figrin bran
02-11-2007, 02:36 AM
There's probably only 1 Darth Maul figure that's capable of sitting down inside the infiltrator - Evo Maul so unless that one is the Saga Legends Maul, a lot of you will be out of luck as far as a pilot.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-11-2007, 03:29 AM
The Sith Infiltrator looks all right to me. I'm running out of room for big vehicles anyway.

Tycho
02-11-2007, 08:44 AM
There's probably only 1 Darth Maul figure that's capable of sitting down inside the infiltrator - Evo Maul so unless that one is the Saga Legends Maul, a lot of you will be out of luck as far as a pilot.

I have that Maul because I had to buy that 3-pack to get a Sidious my Vader could look good tossing. I'm not sure that idea worked, but...

In 1999 I wanted a Sith Infiltrator, and thought it would be made at exactly the same scale this toy is being offered at.

Not needing another Maul for ANY other reason, I bought the softgoods CommTech one so he could sit in a ship should they ever make it. I think that 3rd carded Maul from '99 will do just fine. But I also have the Evolutions one sitting in a box as well.

Finally, as the ship's cool but interacted with next to nothing in the movie, all I planned to do with it was hang it from the ceiling in my Prequel Trilogy "Tan-Red-Lava Room," (Tatooine, Geonosis, Mustafar) away from anything that could 'scale it' to something else. While I actually bought a Maul figure to pilot it and don't have anything better to do with him, the fact remains that I could put the ship up without a pilot and no one would know the difference. My TIE Fighters all have pilots because you can see them through the windows.

JediTricks
02-11-2007, 02:13 PM
There's probably only 1 Darth Maul figure that's capable of sitting down inside the infiltrator - Evo Maul so unless that one is the Saga Legends Maul, a lot of you will be out of luck as far as a pilot.Legends Maul will be Sith Speeder Maul, who is designed specifically to sit down in a vehicle. However, they could have also used Ep 1 "Sith Lord" Darth Maul, he's got a cloth skirt - though his arm pose sucks.



Not needing another Maul for ANY other reason, I bought the softgoods CommTech one so he could sit in a ship should they ever make it. I think that 3rd carded Maul from '99 will do just fine. But I also have the Evolutions one sitting in a box as well.That's the "Sith Lord" one I mentioned above, its arm pose will make it a challenge (at the very least) to get into that tiny cockpit.


I still don't understand why you guys even want a Sith Infiltrator like this. You can't display it next to any figures, they'll dwarf it - it'll be like standing a figure next to the Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter, only that's somewhat accurate to scale and this wouldn't be. The only interaction it can have with a figure is by stuffing him into the tiny cockpit which you can't see into anyway. So why this and not Action Fleet or Titanium Series 3". I could understand if you were kids who played with ships on the carpet, they're the ones who minirigs are marketed to, they are looking for a play-over-display functionality, but collectors aren't kids.

Tycho
02-11-2007, 04:24 PM
I still don't understand why you guys even want a Sith Infiltrator like this.

It's one more vehicle that provides a certain sense of completeness and closure to the 3 3/4" line. Like how they made Blue SnaggleToothe, though I didn't buy him. It's some sort of pathology within this hobby, but I can't put a distinct name to it.



You can't display it next to any figures, they'll dwarf it

I won't be. I'll be hanging it from the ceiling with whatever Maul figure that most easily stuffs inside it.


The only interaction it can have with a figure is by stuffing him into the tiny cockpit which you can't see into anyway.

Well, I already bought the specific figure for this ship 7 years ago.


So why this and not Action Fleet or Titanium Series 3".

Believe it or not: because this ship is bigger. :D

- and like I said, it is one more step towards closure for the 3 3/4" line that needs things like a Gungan Sub for the figures, as well as Jabba's Sailbarge.


I could understand if you were kids who played with ships on the carpet, they're the ones who minirigs are marketed to, they are looking for a play-over-display functionality, but collectors aren't kids

This will fire several missles which will be a fun feature for me to use as I run around the house and chase my cats (AOTC Slave-One can't be beat for animal cruelty, although the Hailfire packs more firepower - you can't really "fly" the Hailfire and you can switch to spacial charges and reload the missles on Slave One).

Mad Slanted Powers
02-11-2007, 04:44 PM
It's only in a couple scenes in the movie and not next to anything but Darth Maul, so I don't have a problem with the size. The proportions seem about right. The earlier picture I saw looked like the nose was a bit short, but the new picture from Toy Fair seems fine. It's certainly closer to scale than any Star Destroyer we've ever got. I think it will be just fine for my purposes.

Slicker
02-11-2007, 06:18 PM
It's one more vehicle that provides a certain sense of completeness and closure to the 3 3/4" line.

I don't really get this sentence. How is it "closure" when we still have a Cloud Car Pilot with out a Cloud Car and Gasgano, Teemto Pagalies, Mars Guo, and Dud Bolt still without pods?

Mad Slanted Powers
02-11-2007, 06:22 PM
I don't really get this sentence. How is it "closure" when we still have a Cloud Car Pilot with out a Cloud Car and Gasgano, Teemto Pagalies, Mars Guo, and Dud Bolt still without pods?You missed his later sentence where he clarified:


and like I said, it is one more step towards closure for the 3 3/4" line that needs things like a Gungan Sub for the figures, as well as Jabba's Sailbarge.

Slicker
02-11-2007, 06:28 PM
You missed his later sentence where he clarified:I missed it because I can only read the first sentence or so of his posts before I get bored and skip the rest.:p

JediTricks
02-13-2007, 04:03 PM
From my earlier argument, I maintain:
The Sith Infiltrator will be the first movie ship taken so far out of its pricepoint in the modern line. There was 1 element of character interaction between Maul and the ship in the movie, and the toy cannot come close to replicating that at $20. It's not possible even if it had no nose or wings, because there will be no circular doors that slide open, no ramp he can walk down, no doorway he can stand in, no large imposing ship looming behind him much less one that goes over his head.



It's one more vehicle that provides a certain sense of completeness and closure to the 3 3/4" line. Like how they made Blue SnaggleToothe, though I didn't buy him. It's some sort of pathology within this hobby, but I can't put a distinct name to it.That makes no sense at all to me, how is it "closure"? You can't use it in display with any Maul figures, can't put it up next to any other vehicles, it's hardly the "last piece" in the line... the only way I can see it having any appeal is for kids who want another bad guy small starfighter but at that level this thing is as EU as a mini-rig.


I won't be. I'll be hanging it from the ceiling with whatever Maul figure that most easily stuffs inside it.Then why get this rather than the Action Fleet one? That one at least had opening rear doors and a minifig that had a pretense of scale.


Well, I already bought the specific figure for this ship 7 years ago.That's a shaky choice, one of the other sites is surmising that only figures with knee articulation will be able to fit in that cockpit because it's so small and the seat is raised up.


Believe it or not: because this ship is bigger. :DThat's an odd argument IMO, you talk all the time about how you don't have space for this stuff.


- and like I said, it is one more step towards closure for the 3 3/4" line that needs things like a Gungan Sub for the figures, as well as Jabba's Sailbarge.If they're to be handled the same way this Sith Infiltrator is, almost nobody would want them. A 1-man gungan sub would be pathetic, and a tiny 3-man (yet still overpriced) Sailbarge would be incredibly disappointing.


This will fire several missles which will be a fun feature for me to use as I run around the house and chase my cats (AOTC Slave-One can't be beat for animal cruelty, although the Hailfire packs more firepower - you can't really "fly" the Hailfire and you can switch to spacial charges and reload the missles on Slave One).Save $20 and just pull their tails.



It's only in a couple scenes in the movie and not next to anything but Darth Maul, so I don't have a problem with the size. My previous post showing scale mockups:
504986
We'll be getting something actually even smaller than my Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter picture, I believe - I didn't take into account that they might put the figure's legs into the nose (my top-down assessments are way off though because of that). So granted, it's only in a couple of scenes and not shown next to anything besides Maul, but look at what size Maul is in relation to it in movie scale vs what we'd be getting - it's nearly 500% difference, that's a little beyond "fudging".

TheCivilCollector
02-13-2007, 04:16 PM
JediTricks:

Just so I get this straight, what you're saying is- you don't like it?

:thumbsup:

Tycho
02-13-2007, 05:00 PM
I have plenty of space to hang things from my ceiling.

But I agree with you about the Gungan Sub and Sailbarge. They better be somewhat decently sized. I just don't care about the Sith Infiltrator that way.

The way I'd expect the Gungan Sub is that it would have 3 "cockpits" and the side cargo areas would hold Qui-Gon and JarJar separately, with Obi-Wan in the front pilot spot.

This would have the added benefit of relieving our Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan figures of having to listen to the incessant ramblings of our JarJar figure.

Droid
02-13-2007, 06:56 PM
I wouldn't buy the bongo anymore, but back when I would have I certainly would not have bought one where Qui-Gon and Jar Jar would be stored as cargo.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-13-2007, 09:09 PM
504986In the top down comparison of the two, the longer nosed version looks closer to what I'm seeing in the Toy Fair picture. That's one reason why I am not too disappointed. The first picture I saw of it was that ebay auction someone linked too, and it seemed kind of snub-nosed. The Toy Fair picture shows the ship to at least be in scale with itself. Comparing it to the TIE Fighter it is next to, it seems like it will be much longer than the E3 Jedi Starfighter.

JediTricks
02-14-2007, 10:40 PM
JediTricks:

Just so I get this straight, what you're saying is- you don't like it?

:thumbsup:That's not what I'm saying actually, it looks like a fun single-man fighter toy, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a crappy useless tiny Sith Infiltrator.


The way I'd expect the Gungan Sub is that it would have 3 "cockpits" and the side cargo areas would hold Qui-Gon and JarJar separately, with Obi-Wan in the front pilot spot.

This would have the added benefit of relieving our Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan figures of having to listen to the incessant ramblings of our JarJar figure.
I wouldn't buy the bongo anymore, but back when I would have I certainly would not have bought one where Qui-Gon and Jar Jar would be stored as cargo.Thank you, I was going to say the same thing, Tycho's been pushing this idea for a while now and I still don't get why - if you're going to bother doing a vehicle where 3 characters sit together and interact, why make the toy SO different from that? That's what LEGO did and while that set was cute, it's dopey for that.


In the top down comparison of the two, the longer nosed version looks closer to what I'm seeing in the Toy Fair picture.Which is why I negated that top-down comparison in my previous post when I said "I didn't take into account that they might put the figure's legs into the nose (my top-down assessments are way off though because of that)." What do you say of the back comparison pics with the figure though? That's the sell.


That's one reason why I am not too disappointed. The first picture I saw of it was that ebay auction someone linked too, and it seemed kind of snub-nosed. The Toy Fair picture shows the ship to at least be in scale with itself. Comparing it to the TIE Fighter it is next to, it seems like it will be much longer than the E3 Jedi Starfighter.The ebay test shot photos come from the same mold as the one at Toy Fair, so I don't know how you can see it differently, maybe you're thrown by the color variance.

The ship seems to be about as long as the Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter while wider yet with a smaller cockpit, but that's a rough guesstimate. Comparing it to the small-wing TIE Fighter doesn't really say anything since that thing is very short. The thing is really small in the rep's hands: http://photos2.figures.com/gallery2/showgallery.php?cat=573

Mad Slanted Powers
02-14-2007, 10:54 PM
What I was considering was the two top-down pictures you had. One looked too stubby, the other one looked all right. The one at Toy Fair doesn't look stubby. It does appear to be a bit longer than the Jedi Starfighter. The width is not much different though.

JediTricks
02-14-2007, 11:02 PM
What I was considering was the two top-down pictures you had. One looked too stubby, the other one looked all right. The one at Toy Fair doesn't look stubby. It does appear to be a bit longer than the Jedi Starfighter. The width is not much different though.
Ok, I just wanted to be clear, my post from yesterday was saying to ignore those top-down pictures I made, they are not even remotely accurate nor worth discussing anymore because it didn't occur to me when I made them that Hasbro would make such a small cockpit that the figure's legs weren't in it.

My post yesterday was referring to the scale pictures, comparing the figure to the ship size, which even though the pics were made 4 months ago are proving to be prophetic.

BTW, looking at Civil Collector's drawings on that same page, it's sad that Hasbro couldn't even implement his smallest scale idea.

Tycho
02-15-2007, 01:17 AM
Thank you, I was going to say the same thing, Tycho's been pushing this idea for a while now and I still don't get why - if you're going to bother doing a vehicle where 3 characters sit together and interact, why make the toy SO different from that? That's what LEGO did and while that set was cute, it's dopey for that.


First, I'd love it if the Bongo was made authentically.

Second, Hasbro is a TOY company, not a replica company. There's a difference.

A Bongo Toy might only have to carry the 3 principal characters, not offer them a conference room. Couple with a "neat-O" feature that lets the propeller spin, and maybe an EU action that makes a launching harpoon out of the front steering vein that will thrill many a 5-year old, the vehicle's a wrap.

If the size Hasbro wants to achieve (possibly a $20 toy, but no larger than a $30 toy) can be manufactured with a cockpit for 3, then I'm sure they'd do it (or even underscale the two side pocket cargo areas to achieve the saving of space).

But I think again, our choices from a TOY company that manufactures stuff for 5 year olds would be a compromise in size, or not-at-all.

I do not prefer the not-at-all option.

I always come back to having built my own Blockade Runner that's 5 feet long to get what I wanted out of a ship. Michael Fright built one to scale for the action figures which requires a semi-truck to transport (not kidding).

I made what I consider an expensive, but feasible TOY (inspired by the GI Joe USS Flag of yesteryear).

I'm just trying to be realisitc. Almost EVERYTHING Hasbro might make a TOY of (in terms of vehicles) would be out of scale:

OUT of SCALE.............................IN SCALE:

AT-TE.......................................Twin Pod Cloud Car
Sailbarge....................................Corpo rate Alliance Tank Droid
Large Homing Spider.....................Clone Swamp Speeder
TurboTank..................................Corusca nt Jedi Temple AirSpeeder
Padme's star yacht.......................
Padme's personal ship
General Grievous' fighter
Lars Family Landspeeder
Droid Gunship
Wookiee Catamaran
AT-PT

I mean stuff of all sizes for various amounts of passengers would be produced out of scale by Hasbro. Yes, General Grievous' ship is a lot larger than what a toy might need to be to fit Obi-Wan like a Jedi Starfighter. And the Lars family landspeeder should probably hold 4 figures, but would likely only hold 2 if they ever made it.

Tycho
04-03-2007, 07:24 PM
I said I'd take it back if I was wrong. The Sith Infiltrator is sitting here loose, newly opened, right on the bed next to my desk.

Turbowars and JediTricks were correct in just about all their complaints posted in the thread above.
It is smaller than I thought it would be for sure.

However, I wonder if Hasbro could have made this in a size somewhere in between what it is, and what JT or Turbo would have liked, and price it at say $30-50? Thus, while it would not be as large as the Queen's Royal Starship toy (which is under scale as well), it would be larger than this.

JT: Hasbro lied to us. They didn't cancel "Action Fleet" altogether. :rolleyes:

Droid
04-03-2007, 07:37 PM
Well now I'm really convinced this thing is something to skip.

Jargo
04-03-2007, 09:14 PM
Hasbro could market a gungan bongo for gungans as there were a few just barely seen docked in the sphere at Otoh Gunga. smaller than the three man one. a single man bongo could feasibly be achievable. but no-one would want it as A the gungans are boring as the amish. and secondly if hasbro made one those who'd buy it would want a three man one.

figrin bran
04-03-2007, 10:17 PM
way to man it up and admit you were wrong Tycho! :thumbsup:

i guess it would be like rubbing salt into the wounds if we decorated your lawn with a few of the infiltrators? :p

Turbowars
04-03-2007, 11:52 PM
Told you so... J/K It really is too bad, but there's going to be plenty of people that will love it. Some people love anything. The worst case of this sickness is GG and SSC collectors.

TheCivilCollector
04-04-2007, 12:33 AM
This will find a prominent place on my shelf right next to my treasured "Outrider".:thumbsup:

Tycho
04-04-2007, 01:12 AM
OK, the Sith Infuriator complaint department is now open:

1) The parts you put on to form the nose are that soft plastic that the floor of the Theed Hanger playset was made out of. You could probably cut through it with a pair of kitchen scissors.

2) You snapt those nose sections on with some difficulty, trying to match them with the "arms" that tractor in and out to make the front end open to expose the lasers and launchers. It's frustrating.

3) The box shows the missles in the outer cannons, but they are too long to fit there when the nose is opened, so you really need to put the probe droids there (on the outside) and the missles on the inside that opens up. This actually makes sense in light of that's the EU attack mode. But the instructions and box pictures are wrong.

4) The micro-Maul figure that comes with the Transformer would be the most accurate scaled Maul to work with this ship. A 3 3/4" figure's head could barely not get stuck in the back boarding hatch were it actually made to open. There is space for Maul's feet to go into part of the nose extension of the ship. My softgoods Maul figure is in storage at the moment, but when I bring him home, I don't doubt that he will fit alright.

Jargo, I maintain that the way to scale down the Bongo is to make each of the side compartments (in the movie) the remaining two seats (for Qui-Gon and JarJar) so 3 figures can ride in the bongo. As a display alternative, they can include cargo facades you could place on the sides and just make it a one-man-sub as well if you like.

figrin bran
04-04-2007, 02:03 AM
from what i've heard/read, you have to really squish in any of the soft goods or evo/tin set Mauls

JediTricks
04-04-2007, 06:18 PM
I said I'd take it back if I was wrong. The Sith Infiltrator is sitting here loose, newly opened, right on the bed next to my desk.

Turbowars and JediTricks were correct in just about all their complaints posted in the thread above.
It is smaller than I thought it would be for sure.Sorry you had to find out the hard way. I'm surprised you weren't prepared though, I thought you were going to be ready by now, I warned you for half a year (plus there's another thread about this before the announcement). :p


However, I wonder if Hasbro could have made this in a size somewhere in between what it is, and what JT or Turbo would have liked, and price it at say $30-50? Thus, while it would not be as large as the Queen's Royal Starship toy (which is under scale as well), it would be larger than this.You're so original Tycho:
Yeah, and the $30 pricepoint gets us vehicles the size of the Republic Gunship and ARC-170, it's a heck of a lot closer to what it should be than some rinky-dink Jedi Starfighter. and in the same post
I didn't think Hasbro should have tried this at all, it's not a big enough player in the film, but if they're going to do it they shouldn't screw up the scale this badly when there is a perfectly servicable $30 pricepoint that would be better suited to the ship's size. At $20, it's going to be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter and in another post
But not even Republic Gunship or ARC-170 sized??? I mean, I knew Hasbro was going to pull this, and even those $30 sizes wouldn't fully pull off what the ship was, but I sorta thought maybe they'd recognize that the $20 size is too small and go $30. and another:
nobody here was calling for a correctly-scaled Sith Infiltrator - that was just your presumption - the arguments were that the toy cannot be well-represented by the $20 pricepoint, that it'd have to be at least the $30 pricepoint to be even remotely close to its movie incarnation and still interact with the figure.

So, what do you think, was I prophetic when I said " Maybe this toy will be the Sith Infiltrator's escape pod. :p"? Or how about
That's not a fair argument, we all know it's not going to be to scale, but up until now no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller pricepoint - there's no $20 AT-AT, no $20 Imperial Shuttle, no $20 Millennium Falcon.



JT: Hasbro lied to us. They didn't cancel "Action Fleet" altogether. :rolleyes:Not Action Fleet, Mini Rigs:

Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter - 8 meters
Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter - 5.5 meters
Naboo Fighter - 11 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
ARC-170 - 14.5 meters
Republic Gunship - 17.5 meters
Sith Infiltrator - 26.5 meters
world's biggest minirig - $19.99

So Tycho, what say you about this?

Don't care about scale - just get it doneThen why bother doing it if they ain't gonna do it even partly right?
and this?


It's one more vehicle that provides a certain sense of completeness and closure to the 3 3/4" line. Like how they made Blue SnaggleToothe, though I didn't buy him. It's some sort of pathology within this hobby, but I can't put a distinct name to it.That makes no sense at all to me, how is it "closure"? You can't use it in display with any Maul figures, can't put it up next to any other vehicles, it's hardly the "last piece" in the line... the only way I can see it having any appeal is for kids who want another bad guy small starfighter but at that level this thing is as EU as a mini-rig.



OK, the Sith Infuriator complaint department is now open:

1) The parts you put on to form the nose are that soft plastic that the floor of the Theed Hanger playset was made out of. You could probably cut through it with a pair of kitchen scissors.Oh man, that's horrible! Are they as soft as the Geonosian Starfighter noses?


3) The box shows the missles in the outer cannons, but they are too long to fit there when the nose is opened, so you really need to put the probe droids there (on the outside) and the missles on the inside that opens up. This actually makes sense in light of that's the EU attack mode. But the instructions and box pictures are wrong.Hmm, that is a surprise, are you sure there's no way to get that right? I do seem to remember the toy fair version being like you said though.


4) The micro-Maul figure that comes with the Transformer would be the most accurate scaled Maul to work with this ship. A 3 3/4" figure's head could barely not get stuck in the back boarding hatch were it actually made to open. There is space for Maul's feet to go into part of the nose extension of the ship. My softgoods Maul figure is in storage at the moment, but when I bring him home, I don't doubt that he will fit alright.There's an Action Fleet Maul minifig that's got the Tatooine robes, I believe, that'd work best. The feet going into the nose is what originally threw me but they showed pics of it on another site and I knew that was going to make this thing even tinier than expected (the cockpit wouldn't have to be taken out of shape to get the figure inside since he's partly in the nose too).



I maintain that the way to scale down the Bongo is to make each of the side compartments (in the movie) the remaining two seats (for Qui-Gon and JarJar) so 3 figures can ride in the bongo. As a display alternative, they can include cargo facades you could place on the sides and just make it a one-man-sub as well if you like.Dude, didn't you learn from this Sith Infiltrator mistake? :p
Geez, why would you want this? And at $20, there's no way it'll be wide enough to accomodate 3 figures even in the 3 separate bubbles - and why the hell would you want 3 separate compartments for the figures when that's the ONLY thing it did in the movie was give them a chance to talk? I wouldn't mind having this at $30, but no way in hell it'd work at $20.and in a different post:

The way I'd expect the Gungan Sub is that it would have 3 "cockpits" and the side cargo areas would hold Qui-Gon and JarJar separately, with Obi-Wan in the front pilot spot.

This would have the added benefit of relieving our Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan figures of having to listen to the incessant ramblings of our JarJar figure.
I wouldn't buy the bongo anymore, but back when I would have I certainly would not have bought one where Qui-Gon and Jar Jar would be stored as cargo.Thank you, I was going to say the same thing, Tycho's been pushing this idea for a while now and I still don't get why - if you're going to bother doing a vehicle where 3 characters sit together and interact, why make the toy SO different from that? That's what LEGO did and while that set was cute, it's dopey for that.

Droid
04-04-2007, 07:47 PM
So, um, JediTricks, are you saying, "I told you so!"?

JediTricks
04-04-2007, 08:01 PM
So, um, JediTricks, are you saying, "I told you so!"?
Well, I had that 10-character-minimum requirement... ;)

Kidhuman
04-04-2007, 08:20 PM
That's not a fair argument, we all know it's not going to be to scale, but up until now no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller pricepoint - there's no $20 AT-AT, no $20 Imperial Shuttle, no $20 Millennium Falcon.


I will let you know, I only paid $15 for my OTC Falcon.






JJReason is the best cop Canada has to offer.

Tycho
04-04-2007, 09:02 PM
Oh man, that's horrible! Are they as soft as the Geonosian Starfighter noses?

Not really. I don't think the nose will droop like the Geo Fighter. That's something to be thankful for.


Hmm, that is a surprise, are you sure there's no way to get that right? I do seem to remember the toy fair version being like you said though.

I'm sure.


Dude, didn't you learn from this Sith Infiltrator mistake? :p and in a different post

These are still kids' toys. They are what they are. MR / Attikus make scale replicas.

I only plan on hanging the Sith Infiltrator by itself from my ceiling. I have a Maul figure saved that I'll use as its pilot (1999 Softgoods), so the way the toy turned out isn't heartbreaking, but seriously disappointing.


So Tycho, what say you about this?





Don't care about scale - just get it done

Then why bother doing it if they ain't gonna do it even partly right?

I'm still glad I can hang this from the ceiling. I'm primarily a 3 3/4" buyer and this goes with my collection in that sense. But I had no plans to pose Maul outside his ship with the probe droids.

Now I would use the Bongo in a larger scene, but it would not be central to it. It just needs to hold the 3 characters "somehow." Part of my take on the hobby is being a "Fan of Toys," not necessarily scale.

That's not to say that the Sith Infiltrator couldn't have been better.

El Chuxter
04-04-2007, 11:47 PM
So, um, JediTricks, are you saying, "I told you so!"?


Well, I had that 10-character-minimum requirement... ;)

You do realize that, without spaces or punctuation, "I told you so" is exactly ten characters?

mabudonicus
04-05-2007, 09:02 AM
I just thought- why didn't they go with a "Cruisemissile" type deal, just put Mauls head and torso in there so it could pop up and not worry about the legs in there??

I still prefer my teeny AMT-ERTL model kit of this ship, it's pretty much perfect even if it is small :beard:Iso&baws

Slicker should be sleeping right about now.

Tycho
04-05-2007, 12:23 PM
I just thought- why didn't they go with a "Cruisemissile" type deal, just put Mauls head and torso in there so it could pop up and not worry about the legs in there??


The whole idea was to make a child's toy that interacts with the figures. That's Hasbro's business model. That's what I wanted.

I never had any plans to pose Maul outside of the ship like in TPM's scenes. I just wanted to collect a toy that could interact with my Maul figure, and hang it (wings open) from my ceiling over my TPM Tatooine displays.

So a pop-up head like the Cruise Missle Trooper abomination wouldn't work for me, and the scale would be just as bad if the head were a 3 3/4" sized head. If it were not, the ship would be better classified as Action Fleet, Titanium, or a Transformer.

All this being said, if it were in an only slightly larger class - the ARC 170 class or something, it would have felt like we did a little better.

However, I'm still glad they made this ship versus "not at all," and it takes one more off of the list:

Gungan Bongo Sub***
MTT
AT-TE
Large Homing Spider Droid ***
Padme's star yacht (s)***
Corporate Alliance Tank Droid***
Wookiee Catamaran ***
Clone Trooper Swamp Speeder ***
Jedi Airspeeder ***
Separatist Droid Gunship ***
Clone Turbo Tank
Lars family landspeeder
Jabba's Sailbarge

There are more than a few of these that could be done at the $20 pricepoint, some much better than others, obviously (like 1-2 men or pilotless droid craft)

All of these have to interact with more figures than the Sith Infiltrator in terms of movie recreation.

I see people's point though: The Bongo Sub or Padme's star yacht would come out the worst at a $20 price point. (Maybe a Wookiee catamaran at that price as well) I didn't *** stuff like the TurboTank or Sailbarge of course.

JediTricks
04-05-2007, 06:11 PM
Not really. I don't think the nose will droop like the Geo Fighter. That's something to be thankful for.I meant the material feel, not their thickness. If the noses on the Geonosian Fighter were thicker, it wouldn't have drooped even with that awful plastic.


I'm sure.Crazy. So someone at Hasbro's photography guy jammed the parts in the wrong way on the prototype I guess.


These are still kids' toys. They are what they are. MR / Attikus make scale replicas.I don't get it, you've already made that argument several times about the Sith Infiltrator and I keep having to say the same thing - it's not about being true to scale, it's about being true to the ESSENCE of the vehicle. It doesn't have to be 1:1 scale to the figures, it just seems unwise to make it another tiny $20 vehicle where the figures are stowed as cargo rather than interacting the way they did in the movie. If you're going to do something, you shouldn't set out to do it wrong.


I'm still glad I can hang this from the ceiling. I'm primarily a 3 3/4" buyer and this goes with my collection in that sense. But I had no plans to pose Maul outside his ship with the probe droids.Yet you just said it was "seriously disappointing" just above. I don't get it.


Now I would use the Bongo in a larger scene, but it would not be central to it. It just needs to hold the 3 characters "somehow." Part of my take on the hobby is being a "Fan of Toys," not necessarily scale.I just don't get that, if you want them to hold the characters "somehow", why not just stack all 3 under the Mini Rig version?



You do realize that, without spaces or punctuation, "I told you so" is exactly ten characters?
Yes mister killjoy, I have a javascript character counter for such things, it's 13 counted characters (spaces count when they're not doubled up), I was making a joke about how large my post was.



I still prefer my teeny AMT-ERTL model kit of this ship, it's pretty much perfect even if it is small :beard:Iso&bawsI like the Action Fleet one, it's got the opening lower doors (even if the figure is a tad out of scale to them). The Galoob Die Cast one has 'em too, but its sculpt isn't as tight. I've never seen the AMT version, was it a snap kit?



I see people's point though: The Bongo Sub or Padme's star yacht would come out the worst at a $20 price point. (Maybe a Wookiee catamaran at that price as well) I made this comment earlier on this thread, but I'll make it again - I think the Wookiee Catamaran is simple enough and lacking in mass enough that if it were shipped unassembled it could work ok in the $20 scale.

Tycho
04-05-2007, 08:40 PM
I meant the material feel, not their thickness. If the noses on the Geonosian Fighter were thicker, it wouldn't have drooped even with that awful plastic.

No the material feel is of harder plastic, but thinner as well. It will hold its shape better than the Geo fighter at least.


Crazy. So someone at Hasbro's photography guy jammed the parts in the wrong way on the prototype I guess.

You can put the missles into the exterior launchers. They don't have to be jammed in. They're interchangeable. However, if you open the nose halves with the missles in the exterior launchers, they block the nose from opening all the way. I don't know if you can force them in deeper, but that might break the launch springs or whatever. Actually, I think that part of the width of the missles are too large to fit in the exterior launchers that deep but I'll take a look later.



I don't get it, you've already made that argument several times about the Sith Infiltrator and I keep having to say the same thing - it's not about being true to scale, it's about being true to the ESSENCE of the vehicle.

No, that DOES make sense to me.


I just don't get that, if you want them to hold the characters "somehow", why not just stack all 3 under the Mini Rig version? That would be far worse of course. Apples and oranges.


I made this comment earlier on this thread, but I'll make it again - I think the Wookiee Catamaran is simple enough and lacking in mass enough that if it were shipped unassembled it could work ok in the $20 scale.
Well that's good news.

El Chuxter
04-06-2007, 11:38 AM
Yeah, I know, but sometimes nothing is funnier than seeming totally deadpan and oblivious. :p

jedibear
05-03-2007, 02:18 PM
Well I finally managed to snag one of these at WM this morning...I was looking forward to seeing for myself what all of the talk was about, lowering my expectations considerably after some of the comments here.

My take: For a toy, not bad. I do have some issues....while I could live without the "play features", most notably the pull-apart nose section, it doesn't affect the overall look of the ship except for the fact that the pieces on the one I've got don't fit snugly together, leaving a slight gap...not bad but still noticeable when you look at it close-up. I wish it fit together better.
Also, mine had scratches on the gray painted part of one of the wings...again, not a huge deal but it still takes away from the display a bit.

The scale thing doesn't bother me that much, since I just wanted to have an Infiltrator I could display with the rest of my "Maul Collection" on my trunk desk (see the attached pic) and it fits the bill alright for that, especially in creating a display that is patterned after Chaing's cool concept painting...

One question for those that have this (and forgive me if it was addressed earlier in the thread)....the box indicates that there are stickers included...I didn't have any in mine. Misprint or am I missing 'em?

Devo
05-03-2007, 03:06 PM
On Sith infiltrator evidence my opinion would have to be "don't bother" as regards the other 'Sith' spacecraft I wanted - Dooku's Solar Sailor. I wonder how tiny that'd end up being, barely larger than his speeder perhaps?

decadentdave
05-03-2007, 03:42 PM
On Sith infiltrator evidence my opinion would have to be "don't bother" as regards the other 'Sith' spacecraft I wanted - Dooku's Solar Sailor. I wonder how tiny that'd end up being, barely larger than his speeder perhaps?

About the size of the BARC speeder I would think.

jedi master sal
05-03-2007, 04:48 PM
One question for those that have this (and forgive me if it was addressed earlier in the thread)....the box indicates that there are stickers included...I didn't have any in mine. Misprint or am I missing 'em?


There's another thread around here somewhere that says others are finding out that their stickers missing too.

Tycho
05-03-2007, 06:57 PM
jedibear: very cool display. That's a creative thing to do with your Maul stuff. I like seeing what different collectors do with their purchases.

I didn't get stickers with either ship in this assortment. I bought 4 V-wings, too. But I've only opened 1. That's OK by me, as I really don't apply stickers to my vehicles any more unless it would be absolutely noticeable without them (the Falcon for example).

JediTricks
05-05-2007, 04:20 PM
There are no stickers with either ship, my guess is that's a holdover from a previous box - probably the Jedi Starfighter - that the graphic designer simply forgot to take out when he used the previous box as a template for these new ones. I don't even know where stickers would go on this thing, the outside's pretty complete in its deco and the interior is all sculpted details that stickers wouldn't go over.


I bought this thing just to make a complete judgment, and it's pretty weak, it's not even a fun toy outside the context because the features just don't come off as engaging. It's not all that small in length or width, but it totally fails because it's so short, it's shorter than a figure, you've got a dinky ship without much going on next to a figure that is a head taller.

The splitting nose doesn't reveal enough new details, it's just 4 underwhelming cannons - 2 of which are spring-loaded missiles. The weird thing is that the opening nose actually hearkens back to an early design for the Sith Infiltrator where it had a big sphere cockpit and 2 jutting prongs in front. This split-nose configuration has a little charm with the wings folded down, a stealthy tiny fighter, but not very exciting either.

Its look is fairly accurate overall outside the context of the figures, if you just want a model kit version of that then this is an ok way to go I guess, though you might want to glue the nose halves together since the clip they designed doesn't do its job quite enough so there's a tiny gap. In the details, they got a few things wrong like the area connecting the nose to the cockpit details (they don't even match the box photos) and there's no thin windshield connecting the 2 main windshields. I really hate the missile launchers in the wing pylons, they're only good for the Sith dark eye probe droid missiles as the cannon ones are too long for the nose to completely open - the probe droid missiles are dippy too, tiny black-painted spheres with a little detail. Push a button on the underside and the wings pop open, it's a solid feature and movie-accurate, but it's more dutiful than exciting.

Strangely, every toy of the Sith Infiltrator has the legs non-retractable, at best they tilt up to get a tiny bit closer to the nose, and this is no exception! They have all this worthless nose area and the best they can do is let the legs pivot forward slightly and rotate in so they can cross, it's really lame, but at least the legs are easily removable and replaceable (that may be this piece of junk's best feature, and it's not even intentional).

The cockpit has a lot of detail sculpted into it, even inside the canopy lid which is also painted. The dashboard detail seems like it's made to be in scale with the ship rather than the figure, like that's the top floor if this weren't made for 3.75" figures but for 1" figures instead. A normal figure is fairly cramped in there, it's not much room but it'd be ok if it weren't for the canopy being curved so they have to sit forward to clear that.

The strangest part for me is that I took the Darth Maul from the Action Fleet Sith Infiltrator, he is a standard 1.25" Action Fleet figure, and even HE is too big for this thing, that's how small this ship is, it's too small to be in scale with an AF minifigure! I suppose a Micro Machines minifig statue might be the proper scale then, but who cares? It's not like the doors open and the ramp comes out anyway.

The most acceptable thing about this whole purchase may be the box, the graphics look nice, they showed the ship on Tatooine at dusk from several angles and that looks nifty even though it's not that exciting to see a ship hovering over a dusty landscape.

All in all, this is a waste of time for the 3.75" figure line, it's painfully and ridiculously undersized to the point of embarassment, it's not very exciting or Sith-like, it doesn't even come off as an acceptable 1-man starfighter that'd be akin to the Jedi Starfighter or Naboo Fighter. It's basically a model of the ship, a stand-alone Sith Infiltrator out of scale with everything else that underwhelms with the passage of time because it's not quite good enough to be treated as a model when you notice some of the smaller issues build up.

Jargo
05-05-2007, 05:56 PM
It's a dog of a vehicle toy. End of.

DarkArtist
05-12-2007, 01:02 PM
I have to say, I just found this today and picked it up and overall it's not too bad. I mean I would have loved to see a larger scale but for what it's worth I liked it. I can understand why Hasbro did what they did with this ship, it sort of reminds me of the AOTC Jedi Starfighter.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-12-2007, 03:00 PM
I got this yesterday, and I actually really like it. For a ship that has all of 30 seconds of screentime and doesn't fight anything I think they did a fine job. It's bigger than I thought it would be, given all the damn complaining on here. Seeing as how nearly every other vehicle is way out of scale, I think this would've been weird if it were as big as the Royal Starship.

And hey, at least it's not as small as this one (http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeItrophymaul.asp) was. :D

El Chuxter
05-13-2007, 06:53 PM
I saw it today. It was easy to save $20.

plasticfetish
05-14-2007, 01:40 AM
I saw it the other day and skipped it also. For now anyway.

I like jedibear's Maul display. Wouldn't mind doing something like that... but if the thing's not a fun toy or a very good model of the ship, I'll pass.

Dark Marble
05-15-2007, 12:43 PM
I also just picked this one up and after all is said and done I like it. It is not in my top 5 favorites but not the dog I thought it would be.

JediTricks
05-16-2007, 05:56 AM
I like jedibear's Maul display. Wouldn't mind doing something like that... but if the thing's not a fun toy or a very good model of the ship, I'll pass.It's an adequate model, the details are inaccurate at the midsection but most folks wouldn't care, same with the paint which I believe is a little wrong. Only the minor split nose issue takes it down as a model, and what little of the hinge is showing for the canopy.

JEDIpartner
05-16-2007, 09:14 AM
I'm so glad I'm passing on this. It sounds and looks like crap.

El Chuxter
05-16-2007, 11:53 AM
I saw it again yesterday, and passed on it again. I didn't even have to remind myself that I only came for the nachos.

JEDIpartner
05-16-2007, 02:26 PM
LOL!!!! :D That's hilarious, man!!!

DarthBrandon
06-15-2007, 06:20 PM
I picked this up today & I got the V-wing last week. The V-wing is a killer toy & it's become one of my favorites right now (picking up a second as well in case they make Palpy's ship) right down to all the cool features. The Infiltrator is a nice toy that could have been made a little larger IMHO, but for what it is, this isn't that bad. The sculpt is pretty good & the paint apps on mine are O.K., but not great. It's worth the $29 dollars I spent on it, but again it could have been a little larger; 1/2 or twice the size that it is & it would have been perfect. That's my only gripe with this thing (size) other than the fact I would have like to put his speeder inside the ship that is. I HOPE THAT IF HASBRO DOES AN AT-TE, THEY DO IT LIKE THE AT-AT; DID YOU GUYS HEAR THAT HASBRO?:thumbsup:

OH, HASBRO: PALPATINES SHIP COULD BE A RE-DO OF THE VINTAGE SHUTTLE WITH SOME MODS THAT WOULD ACCOMODATE THE SITH'S VERSION. JUST IN CASE YOUR WONDERING HOW TO SO THIS.:D

darko666
06-15-2007, 10:14 PM
i've been waiting for Hasbro to make this ship since Episode I came out. when they released the Royal Ship, i figured we would get the Infiltrator, but it never came. after the long wait, it finally arrives and it is such a let down. it should have been bigger in scale, at least somewhat close to how the Royal Ship was made. but i'm still glad to see it was made, better than nothing(at least i think so). oh well, i will just add the toy to my list of reference for the 3D model i'm planning on doing soon of the Infiltrator.

knighthawk3759
06-18-2007, 05:36 PM
ok so i see the infiltrator...yes its small...yes the nose splits but i can overlook all of this......when i take it out of the cackage i see that the two front landing struts just rotate...not fold into the body of the ship! I mean how could they make such a crummy mistake? or did i miss something....?

stillakid
06-18-2007, 06:33 PM
ok so i see the infiltrator...yes its small...yes the nose splits but i can overlook all of this......when i take it out of the cackage i see that the two front landing struts just rotate...not fold into the body of the ship! I mean how could they make such a crummy mistake? or did i miss something....?

Yes. Cackage is spelled with a p.

JediTricks
06-19-2007, 03:44 AM
ok so i see the infiltrator...yes its small...yes the nose splits but i can overlook all of this......when i take it out of the cackage i see that the two front landing struts just rotate...not fold into the body of the ship! I mean how could they make such a crummy mistake? or did i miss something....?
For some reason, there's no toy version of the Sith Infiltrator that's ever had fully-retracting front legs even though they aren't shown when it's flying. The LEGO version, the Micro Machines version, the Titanium Series version, the Action Fleet version, they all suffer this. Only the new upcoming LEGO version looks to get this right, but they take enough liberties on the ship that I don't think we can consider it.

The Hasbro legs at least pop out easily.

knighthawk3759
06-19-2007, 10:28 AM
is use the strut setup from the advanced jedi starfighter and everything would be fine.....hasbro screwed up the whole line when they took over for kenner

JON9000
06-19-2007, 10:40 AM
Given the wretched performance of the Naboo Royal Starship at retail, in spite of the fact that it is likely the holy grail of all vehicles in terms of features and overall coolness, yet the sell-through of the AT-AT during the holiday season, I have to wonder what must be going through Hasbro's collective mind when it comes to scaling. If it were me, I would sell huge vehicles with next to no features for minimal dollars. Those seem to sell the best.

I think they made the right call with the Infiltrator, BTW, which is essentially what KENNER did back in the day with Slave I (which still rocks).

knighthawk3759
06-19-2007, 10:43 AM
but the gear man the freakin gear!!!!! I mean I dont want to have to pull the struts off if I want to display this while in flight!it just sucks.....should have known when the back of the box it said...(pivoting landing gear)!!!!!!!!!!

JON9000
06-19-2007, 02:46 PM
Yeah, unfortunately, we have had some pretty crap luck with landing gears. My vintage Y-wing landing gear isn't the greatest, and everybody who has had any Millenium Falcon over the years has had to deal with those sketchy back gears.

A good gear that comes to mind is that on the F/X X-wing. The electronics make the rear pretty heavy, but they stay put.

RooJay
06-20-2007, 02:34 AM
is use the strut setup from the advanced jedi starfighter and everything would be fine.....hasbro screwed up the whole line when they took over for kenner

MmHm, because one thing Kenner always got right was scale and film accuracy. They were totally known for that kind of thing (stupid Hasbro...):

JediTricks
06-21-2007, 12:16 AM
Given the wretched performance of the Naboo Royal Starship at retail, in spite of the fact that it is likely the holy grail of all vehicles in terms of features and overall coolness, yet the sell-through of the AT-AT during the holiday season, I have to wonder what must be going through Hasbro's collective mind when it comes to scaling. If it were me, I would sell huge vehicles with next to no features for minimal dollars. Those seem to sell the best.I think the Naboo Starship initially being $100, coming out late, having floppy parts, being in a GIGANTIC box, and the movie being underwhelming to audiences had a lot to do with its struggles at market, and why Hasbro ultimately slashed its MSRP in half. But it's also likely that it just didn't actually DO anything in the movie, it had no guns so it didn't shoot at anybody, it just flew from place to place and landed, that's not going to lead to particularly exciting play patterns.


I think they made the right call with the Infiltrator, BTW, which is essentially what KENNER did back in the day with Slave I (which still rocks).That assessment is far too generous IMO, sure Slave I was small, but it was tall enough to accommodate a standing Boba Fett the way he was seen in the movie AND a second figure AND Han in Carbonite. Plus, Slave I is much much smaller than the Infiltrator, so the scale issue isn't nearly as far out there as the Infiltrator, Slave I is like 3:1 while the Infiltrator is probably 9:1 or more. No Star Wars vehicle has ever been taken that far out of scale for the Star Wars action figure line before, they either did it bigger or didn't do it at all.

RooJay
06-21-2007, 03:59 AM
That assessment is far too generous IMO, sure Slave I was small, but it was tall enough to accommodate a standing Boba Fett the way he was seen in the movie AND a second figure AND Han in Carbonite. Plus, Slave I is much much smaller than the Infiltrator, so the scale issue isn't nearly as far out there as the Infiltrator, Slave I is like 3:1 while the Infiltrator is probably 9:1 or more. No Star Wars vehicle has ever been taken that far out of scale for the Star Wars action figure line before, they either did it bigger or didn't do it at all.

You do realize that if the Infiltrator had been done at 3:1 it would had to like three feet long? For a ship with even less screen time than the Royal Starship? A ship which also is never seen doing much of anything? I mean, did we even see it flying? It certainly didn't shoot at anybody.

Of course, at this point we're all just beating our own dead horses, though. Some folks hate it, some like it. Those who hate it have presumably passed on it, those who like it have presumably already bought it (or will soon.) Honestly, I don't see any sitting on the shelves for any extended length of time anyway. We really (as always) should just all move on. It's obvious that Hasbro isn't going to be rushing a new, larger scale version into production anytime soon, if ever.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-21-2007, 08:26 AM
You do realize that if the Infiltrator had been done at 3:1 it would had to like three feet long? For a ship with even less screen time than the Royal Starship? A ship which also is never seen doing much of anything? I mean, did we even see it flying? It certainly didn't shoot at We did see it approach Tatooine. I can't remember at the moment if we see it land. Other than that, it didn't do anything. I still haven't opened mine to examine it for myself, but it will suffice for me.

JON9000
06-21-2007, 05:00 PM
You do realize that if the Infiltrator had been done at 3:1 it would had to like three feet long? For a ship with even less screen time than the Royal Starship? A ship which also is never seen doing much of anything? I mean, did we even see it flying? It certainly didn't shoot at anybody.

That was my exact thought. Except we did see it flying, coming out of cloak. Regardless, I have only seen it once at retail, so it must be selling okay.

JediTricks
06-21-2007, 09:16 PM
You do realize that if the Infiltrator had been done at 3:1 it would had to like three feet long? For a ship with even less screen time than the Royal Starship? A ship which also is never seen doing much of anything? I mean, did we even see it flying? It certainly didn't shoot at anybody.Yes, I am aware of that (except we do see it flying and decloaking and landing as MSP pointed out, plus we got Maul and the dark eye Sith probe droids coming out of it), I've always been aware of that and that's why I have suggested for 8 long years that all these fan requests for it were going to end up with a disappointing little ship... and that's what we got.