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JediTricks
10-08-2006, 10:00 PM
How are you guys not already talking about this in here? That was a wild season premiere! I don't see how Apollo could have gotten so fat in 4 months, or how he'll lose it so quickly. The ground stuff was wild and dark and made real statements about today's world that made ya think, I didn't buy Tigh giving the map to his wife to burn it though, much less talking in front of her, that seemed pretty out there for a guy who was just talking about the evil things they are doing and how it must be done. I wanted more space stuff, but I suppose there's not much to say there. I didn't buy Starbuck's reaction to the kid hurting herself at all, she's a soldier still and has a real hate-on for the Cylons especially after they violated her to create the kid, I would have been more impressed if they had Starbuck put the kid out of its misery instead of saving it. I thought Baltar not wanting to sign the death orders was pretty good, it makes it more believable if he ends up living on a Basestar like in the original series. All in all, a very strong and impressive start, I wish the season-preview hadn't given away the cliffhanger nature of the last scene in this week's ep though, the question of the firing squad and all.

figrin bran
10-08-2006, 10:18 PM
i would talk about it except that my building isn't providing cable any longer and i haven't paid for it on my own yet. :(

pbarnard
10-08-2006, 10:38 PM
Well when I posted about the Web Episodes and go next to no response, figured there weren't that many interested.

this season I think can have a lot of human flashbacks. Beyond that, i'm amazed. This is the first time I've gotten to see it on the screen as opposed to DVD (*hugs his cable*).

sith_killer_99
10-08-2006, 11:11 PM
Thank the Cylon God this show is back!!!

I enjoyed the entire episode and was relieved to find the season premier was 2 hours long! I agree with you on the map issue, no way he would have fallen for that!

As for Starbuck...well...

All in all a very good start, the fat suit on Lee looks cartoonish! I can't wait for them to dump it!

I think we all knew Rosalin was going to live one way or another...as for Tom?!?! We will see, I kinda hope he lives and forms an alliance with the good ol ex-pres.:D I'd like to see him make vice-president.

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 11:40 PM
i would talk about it except that my building isn't providing cable any longer and i haven't paid for it on my own yet. :(That sucks! Is your antenna reception any good? Mine is crap here, I can't imagine not doing cable or satellite in this area.


Well when I posted about the Web Episodes and go next to no response, figured there weren't that many interested.I wasn't interested in the webisodes, I've come to realize I'm *never* interested in webisodes.


All in all a very good start, the fat suit on Lee looks cartoonish! I can't wait for them to dump it!Heh heh, I bought the belly, but the appliances on his face looked way silly.


I think we all knew Rosalin was going to live one way or another...as for Tom?!?! We will see, I kinda hope he lives and forms an alliance with the good ol ex-pres.:D I'd like to see him make vice-president.I thought icing her would have been really awesome, she was very good in this ep and it would have been a total shocker to kill her from Baltar's pen no less - it'd shake the audience up in the right way.

Phantom-like Menace
10-09-2006, 12:12 AM
I know I got a pretty good laugh out of the fat suit, but the funniest part by far was when the new Ray Vecchio (anyone here a Due South fan?) . . . um Leoben came home. Hi, Honey, I'm home. Oh, did you kill me again? That makes what, five times?

One of my favorite parts of this episode was that Sharon was reinstated. I hope they don't trot out the whole idea that the resistance would think she set them up.

figrin bran
10-09-2006, 02:14 AM
That sucks! Is your antenna reception any good? Mine is crap here, I can't imagine not doing cable or satellite in this area.



well, i don't know what part of town you're from but reception is fine out here in los feliz adjacent :p :D

JediTricks
10-09-2006, 04:15 PM
Not here in Los Feliz proper.

pbarnard
10-10-2006, 02:40 PM
Ok, wondering about the Cylon human models and ignoring the hybrid offspring for now we know the following

1--
2--
3--Xena/Reporter
4--
5--
6--Gina/Blonde/Caprica
7--
8--Sharon/Boomer
9--
10--
11--
12--


Additionally we have the Tour Guide/Castaway (white male dark hair), Starbuck Tormentor/Airlock (white male blonde), Doctor (black male), Dean Stockwell (white male older).

That leaves 5 to be revealed; and assuming balance, should be 3 more females and 2 more males.


Fell free to put the known males to their proper model number.

figrin bran
10-11-2006, 12:33 AM
i'm not sure which thread to post this in but on Veronica Mars, i just heard Veronica say something to the effect of "i want to get the frak out of here". i'm sure she said frak too.

Blue2th
10-11-2006, 01:51 AM
The Season Premier was riveting! At Comic-Con Edward James Olmos said it would be darker than any thing we'd seen before.

JediTricks
10-11-2006, 04:08 PM
i'm not sure which thread to post this in but on Veronica Mars, i just heard Veronica say something to the effect of "i want to get the frak out of here". i'm sure she said frak too.
That's because in last week's episode, when she met the RA on her floor, he used the expression "frak", she asked him what that was, he explained it was from BSG and she used it in that ep and now in this one - always in a slightly-self-aware manner.

figrin bran
10-12-2006, 12:40 AM
a-ha! i see. obviously i didn't see last week's ep.

pbarnard
10-13-2006, 10:16 PM
So what's going to happen to Helen Tigh now? I think I can update my list (Dean Stockwell as 5).

1--
2--
3--Xena/Reporter
4--
5--Dean Stockwell
6--Gina/Blonde/Caprica
7--
8--Sharon/Boomer
9--
10--
11--
12--

Blue2th
10-13-2006, 10:38 PM
So what's going to happen to Helen Tigh now?
He's gonna forgive her, 'cause she did it for love. There's alot of forgiveness on BSG. Normally they would drag it out, but they have to hurry up and get on the escape ship. So Tigh has to do it real quick.:)

JediTricks
10-14-2006, 04:52 AM
That was a pretty good episode, but they totally cheated the way the beginning played out. :p Saul talked pretty tough about collaborators in the previous episode, if he lets Ellen off it will open the door to all the other collaborators, and at this point I'm not sure which way that'll go.

sith_killer_99
10-14-2006, 10:53 PM
Good episode, Saul was pretty horrified by what Hellen had done, I loved the camera shot they got of the expression on his face, the look in his eye. He really played it well.

JT, don't forget how hung up Saul is on Helen, he was ready to turn against Adama, he will do just about anything to stay with her, he knows about her cheating on him and he still stays with her!

My favorite line in the episode "The last thing your kid wants is to have Helen and I as his parents!"

I laughed my arse off!!!:D

JediTricks
10-15-2006, 04:40 PM
It's "Ellen", not "Helen".

Yeah, I can't say I'd be surprised if Saul does forgive Ellen, I'm just saying if he does that opens the door to forgiving all the others - then again, Saul is a hard-headed, hypocritical jerkbag so maybe not. :p

Yeah, that was a good line! Once again his Canadian accent came out heavy in that one though. ;)

sith_killer_99
10-15-2006, 06:34 PM
Ellen, Helen, I'm gellin'...like Magellin.

Has anyone else noticed that even though we are on Season 3 it feels more like Season 4 or 5?!?!:confused:

I'm wondering about our friend Mr. Gaeta. How will the crew react to him, will they believe he was helping them all along, or will they go after him before he gets a chance to explain.

Any chance of Zarek and Roslin teaming up in an election down the road? I would soo love to see Richard Hatch as the VP!!!:D

mtriv73
10-17-2006, 02:52 PM
So what's going to happen to Helen Tigh now? I think I can update my list (Dean Stockwell as 5).

1--
2--
3--Xena/Reporter
4--
5--Dean Stockwell
6--Gina/Blonde/Caprica
7--
8--Sharon/Boomer
9--
10--
11--
12--


You might as well pencil in "Starbuck's" kid somewhere. If they were able to make a hybrid that easily, the Xena cylon wouldn't be so interested in Sharon's.

sith_killer_99
10-17-2006, 03:47 PM
You might as well pencil in "Starbuck's" kid somewhere. If they were able to make a hybrid that easily, the Xena cylon wouldn't be so interested in Sharon's.

Yeah, I suspect the kid is secretly a six!!! Wouldn't that be great!lol

sith_killer_99
10-20-2006, 10:08 PM
Ahhh, someone else's brat, oh well.

I like my idea for the kid better.:D

I still can't believe Saul did it!!!

But then it seems to go with the upcoming story line...people disappearing....I like it!

Mr. Gaeta will escape judgement. I have no doubt. But that still leaves a little problem...he knows who sat in judgement and he could "talk".

pbarnard
10-20-2006, 10:46 PM
Ahhh, someone else's brat, oh well. Predictable based on which Cylon model it was.


I like my idea for the kid better.:D Had it's merrits.


I still can't believe Saul did it!!!
Not that he did it, but how was the bigger suprise.


Mr. Gaeta will escape judgement. I have no doubt. But that still leaves a little problem...he knows who sat in judgement and he could "talk".
That'll be going on for a long time, Collaborator or not, and not just with Gaeta....Baltar...Sharron Agathon...Will Cylon Caprica and Boomer 1 defect?

Also, what is in store for Hera? And how will that come back to bite them in the ***** at either the midseason or season finale?

Blue2th
10-21-2006, 08:15 AM
Cool space battle. Pegasus flying in with forward batteries blazing. The end of the "Beast" she took out two Cylon Basestars. How about that Galactica atmosphere entry, then jump. Great episode.

JediTricks
10-21-2006, 02:19 PM
"Get ready to jump!"

That was an awesome episode, the Galactica falling through the atmosphere was a fantastic scene. I called all the big moments, even a couple lines, the only thing they really surprised me by was Casey being someone else's kid - good mind-frak right there. I wish they'd show the Galactica fighting the way they show the Pegasus fighting, especially now. :p I'm really glad I didn't know many spoilers on this going in.

pbarnard
10-21-2006, 02:54 PM
"Get ready to jump!"

I wish they'd show the Galactica fighting the way they show the Pegasus fighting, especially now. :p I'm really glad I didn't know many spoilers on this going in.

The problem is that they're two different classes of ships. Think of the Galactica as a WW2 area aircraft carrier crossed with a frigate/battleship. The Pegasus is a modern super carrier crossed with a AEGIS cruiser. The fire power specs, crew compliment degree of automation are all different.

I'm just glad it's back to one ship for the sake of the plot. It gives back the air of military inferiority.

JediTricks
10-21-2006, 06:55 PM
The problem is that they're two different classes of ships. Think of the Galactica as a WW2 area aircraft carrier crossed with a frigate/battleship. The Pegasus is a modern super carrier crossed with a AEGIS cruiser. The fire power specs, crew compliment degree of automation are all different. Ok, but they're both armed, yet we never see Galactica firing any weapons at all, the ship seems completely dead in the water when all the vipers are gone, it's ridiculous. Plus, if they knew it was going to be a tough fight, why take Galactica to New Caprica instead of Pegasus which can hang in the fight a lot longer?

pbarnard
10-21-2006, 07:42 PM
Ok, but they're both armed, yet we never see Galactica firing any weapons at all, the ship seems completely dead in the water when all the vipers are gone, it's ridiculous. Plus, if they knew it was going to be a tough fight, why take Galactica to New Caprica instead of Pegasus which can hang in the fight a lot longer?

Goes back to the mini series. Galactica was being converted to a museum. They go to Ragnar station to look for some ammunition. They fire a lot of it off in that very there during their initial escape. Now either Pegasus' ammunition is either not compatible with the older Galactica, Galactica has fewer gun ports, or some other reason. It also may be where the gun ports are located. We see Pegasus are in the bow. Galactica may have her's on the sides. That means if one has to decide to go between 2 ships, Galactica should go. There is no reason why the two should be the same. What they are capable of manufacturing is the Viper and small arms ammunition (logical, smaller rounds, can use scraps). There's a great deal made that they gave one of the last two nuclear warheads to Baltar for the Cylon detector and than Gina goes and blows up the Rising Star. So there's one nuke left, and my guess is Adama will hold on to it to the very end to ensure the civilian fleet can escape even if Galactica is going down.

Phantom-like Menace
10-22-2006, 12:01 AM
Cool space battle. Pegasus flying in with forward batteries blazing. The end of the "Beast" she took out two Cylon Basestars.

I'm kind of annoyed Pegasus is gone. Anyone familiar with the first series has seen that coming, but it added a cheap (but oddly enjoyable) tension to any scene with Pegasus in danger to think they'll finally destroy her only to have her remain. I'll accept we were supposed to have been lulled into a false sense of security only to have Pegasus destroyed, but it didn't really do the job. I thought they've been doing a fine enough job with two Battlestars plotwise, though I suppose it could get somewhat unbelievable that each would be off doing its own thing when the writers needed them separated.

It also leaves an awkward glut of promoted officers with no reason for their promotions. Will Adama be demoted? Will he be elected to the quorum a la the original series while Lee takes Galactica? Will Lee be demoted? Is Helo going back to simple ECM officer on a raptor?


How about that Galactica atmosphere entry, then jump. Great episode.

That was too cool. I kind of wanted more of a reaction from the people on the ground, maybe some looking up with some I-can't-believe-they're-doing-that expressions and/or comments. I can't imagine too many Battlestars have attempted that maneuver, let alone successfully did it, let alone during combat.

sith_killer_99
10-22-2006, 12:38 PM
It also leaves an awkward glut of promoted officers with no reason for their promotions. Will Adama be demoted? Will he be elected to the quorum a la the original series while Lee takes Galactica? Will Lee be demoted? Is Helo going back to simple ECM officer on a raptor?

I don't see anyone getting demoted. But it does create a big shake up especially with the crew that stayed aboard. What will happen with Kat, once Starbuck is back? Who will be Galactica's CAG? It's obvious that Tigh will be Galactica's XO, so where will Lee go? We also have a bunch of Vipers on Galactica now, since they all go off of Pegasus. That makes more teams for Galactica to run.

Here's what I see could happen...

Lee becomes Galactica's CAG again. Starbuck become team leader of Pegasus Viper crew, Kat becomes team leader of Galactica Viper crew.

Hopefully Chief comes back and I want to see more of the engineer who came over from the Pegasus, I'm sure he could prove VERY useful in developing new weapons, ships, etc.

As for Starbuck's hubby, I see him becoming an officer on Galactica and becoming head of security or something along those lines.

Snowtrooper
10-22-2006, 12:57 PM
Ok, but they're both armed, yet we never see Galactica firing any weapons at all, the ship seems completely dead in the water when all the vipers are gone, it's ridiculous. Plus, if they knew it was going to be a tough fight, why take Galactica to New Caprica instead of Pegasus which can hang in the fight a lot longer?
If I'm not mistaken, they originally figured on fighting only two basestars. When four of them showed up, Adama knew he was in way over his head.

Blue2th
10-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Well, Mr. Gaeta might get it, according to next episode's witch hunt-people are dissapearing-death squads etc. That leaves his old position (opps was it?) open.

sith_killer_99
10-22-2006, 02:31 PM
I still don't think Mr. Gaeta will get killed. Remember he was secretly helping the resistance. All he has to do is tell Chief it was him providing the inside info, it should be easy enough to confirm.:D

Blue2th
10-22-2006, 04:04 PM
Yeah, I hate to see Mr. Gaeta go. Besides, he's the only one who can vouch for Baltar attempting to prevent number 3 from nuking the place. If he ever gets redemption. Though Baltar could turn out to be a Cylon. All kinds of twists and turns to the story. It's hard to guess what will happen. I thought for sure Ellen would be forgiven by Tigh, and he ended up poisoning her.

sith_killer_99
10-22-2006, 06:58 PM
No way Baltar ends up being a Cylon. It just destroys the entire plot and storyline.

1. Why would they have even bothered to send six to hook-up with him and get the info they needed. They could have simply "turned him on" or whatever.

2. He couldn't have been a "plant" aboard Galactica, because they had no way of knowing he would get aboard.

3. It totally negates the "love" that six has for a "human".

Baltar as a Cylon just dosen't play into the story.

JediTricks
10-22-2006, 07:05 PM
Goes back to the mini series. Galactica was being converted to a museum. They go to Ragnar station to look for some ammunition. They fire a lot of it off in that very there during their initial escape.Ah, interesting to know, I never saw the miniseries.


Now either Pegasus' ammunition is either not compatible with the older Galactica, Galactica has fewer gun ports, or some other reason. It also may be where the gun ports are located. We see Pegasus are in the bow. Galactica may have her's on the sides. That means if one has to decide to go between 2 ships, Galactica should go.We never see Galactica fire from her sides that I've ever seen, but Pegasus has guns on the bow and on the sides of the forward section, so it can defend itself a lot better.



I thought they've been doing a fine enough job with two Battlestars plotwise, though I suppose it could get somewhat unbelievable that each would be off doing its own thing when the writers needed them separated.I agree, it was working for me, Galactica as the flagship and Pegasus as the workhorse defense ship. And I could have bought them separating for mining jobs and whatnot.


It also leaves an awkward glut of promoted officers with no reason for their promotions. Will Adama be demoted? Will he be elected to the quorum a la the original series while Lee takes Galactica? Will Lee be demoted? Is Helo going back to simple ECM officer on a raptor?Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, there are a lot of promotions that are out of place now. I don't think Adama needs to step down as Admiral though.


If I'm not mistaken, they originally figured on fighting only two basestars. When four of them showed up, Adama knew he was in way over his head.
He seemed confident they could hold off 2 basestars but hardly sure they could take them out, and the atmospheric drop damaged a lot of systems, and why they didn't expect more basestars I don't get.

sith_killer_99
10-22-2006, 08:20 PM
why they didn't expect more basestars I don't get.

Recon showed two, so they expected two.

Sure, he could have said...what if more basestars show up? But then you can "what if" things to death. Military planning is what it is, you depend greatly upon your intel....and recon said two basestars.


It also leaves an awkward glut of promoted officers with no reason for their promotions. Will Adama be demoted? Will he be elected to the quorum a la the original series while Lee takes Galactica? Will Lee be demoted? Is Helo going back to simple ECM officer on a raptor?

You don't demote based on available slots. It just dosen't work that way, you just push on with what you have. Unless someone messes up and earns a demotion.

The interesting thing is that all these officers left for civilian life, ala Starbuck. In the real world they would go down one rank when they came back on active duty. That could leave Starbuck working for Kat! However, I really don't think they will do that, fans probably wouldn't like it.

pbarnard
10-22-2006, 08:23 PM
He seemed confident they could hold off 2 basestars but hardly sure they could take them out, and the atmospheric drop damaged a lot of systems, and why they didn't expect more basestars I don't get.

There's so many great lines from the miniseries. Adama's existence, Rosalin's make babies...

It was where New Caprica was located, inside a nebula. Plus the frame of reference that Adama had to go on is that usually 2 Basestars act in concert, but only super important things like the Resurection Ship got more than 2 Basestars. They could have been there all along but the Raptor scouts never detected them.

And to all who say things about promotions, ranks and positions, again going back to the miniseries, the most important thing is that they get out of there and start having babies. On that note, what is the current census? My guess is that they went from 45k+ to ~35k to 40k. At that number, there may not be enough diversity to continue as a species.

Phantom-like Menace
10-22-2006, 09:54 PM
You don't demote based on available slots. It just dosen't work that way, you just push on with what you have. Unless someone messes up and earns a demotion.

Let me clarify what I meant by demotion. Demotion does not only mean a rank reduction, it also means a reduction in position. Galactica is not going to have two Commanding Officers, Galactica; two Executive Officers, Galactica; two Commanders, (Galactica) Air Group, they're only going to have one of each. Someone may have to take a reduction in position regardless of their rank status. When I said Adama could be elected to the Quorum, that is certainly a promotion but has nothing to do with rank. Also, when I said Helo could become a simple ECM officer, that's certainly a demotion but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with rank.

Now, if Adama were to become a politician, Lee could be the Commanding Officer, Galactica with no reduction in position, but if Tigh was XO, Galactica, Dualla (I assume former XO, Pegasus, possibly with the rank of colonel, though not necessarily), is not going to be XO, Galactica too, ergo, positional demotion regardless of whether she keeps the rank given to her as XO, Pegasus.

pbarnard
10-22-2006, 11:10 PM
Dualla (I assume former XO, Pegasus, possibly with the rank of colonel, though not necessarily), is not going to be XO, Galactica too, ergo, positional demotion regardless of whether she keeps the rank given to her as XO, Pegasus.

Dee was only a Lt. The very fact in the 6+ months from the colonizing of New Caprica to the Cylon's occupying she went from NCO to officer is probably all the promotion she can take.

Phantom-like Menace
10-22-2006, 11:26 PM
Dee was only a Lt. The very fact in the 6+ months from the colonizing of New Caprica to the Cylon's occupying she went from NCO to officer is probably all the promotion she can take.

Yeah, I wasn't sure. I knew the position didn't necessarily require the rank of colonel, but figured it wasn't completely impossible that it was bestowed.

sith_killer_99
10-23-2006, 02:39 AM
Dee was only a Lt. The very fact in the 6+ months from the colonizing of New Caprica to the Cylon's occupying she went from NCO to officer is probably all the promotion she can take.

When was Dualla ever an NCO? LT is a junior grade officer, as far as I can remember she has always been an officer.

pbarnard
10-23-2006, 01:12 PM
When was Dualla ever an NCO? LT is a junior grade officer, as far as I can remember she has always been an officer.

Since the Miniseries...Plus there was the one episode where after she was in shock, Rosalin tells Billy to use her Rank/Name to get her to snap out of it. It was an NCO rank.

JediTricks
10-23-2006, 04:54 PM
Recon showed two, so they expected two.Hope for the best, expect the worst.


Sure, he could have said...what if more basestars show up? But then you can "what if" things to death. Military planning is what it is, you depend greatly upon your intel....and recon said two basestars.It's not exactly unexpected that they'd have backup somewhere nearby, they could have had a contingency plan for that and should have expected heavier resistance either way.


It was where New Caprica was located, inside a nebula. Plus the frame of reference that Adama had to go on is that usually 2 Basestars act in concert, but only super important things like the Resurection Ship got more than 2 Basestars. They could have been there all along but the Raptor scouts never detected them.They knew there were more than 2 basestars when they first jumped into New Caprica space, and this wasn't exactly a minor basestar hit-n-run mission, this was a significant Cylon base at that point, AND they're in a nebula perfect for hiding patrol basestars.


On that note, what is the current census? My guess is that they went from 45k+ to ~35k to 40k. At that number, there may not be enough diversity to continue as a species.They landed at New Caprica with only 39k after Gina nuked Cloud Nine which destroyed a few other ships in the blast. My guess is that they're now around 30k after a year with the Cylons, and I believe that numerically that's enough genetic diversity to continue the species - our genes are tougher and more maliable than we think, it takes about 3 generations of direct inbreeding to bring about defects.

sith_killer_99
10-23-2006, 07:03 PM
Since the Miniseries...Plus there was the one episode where after she was in shock, Rosalin tells Billy to use her Rank/Name to get her to snap out of it. It was an NCO rank.

Ahh, a little research find that you are indeed correct. She was a Petty Officer Second Class "communications bridge NCO, onboard Battlestar Galactica" up until the end of the second season.


At the end of season 2, Dualla was promoted to Lieutenant and became Executive Officer of the Battlestar Pegasus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_Dualla

Nice catch, I never really pay much attention to those "Navy ranks". LOL:D Though most of the ranks in BSG are Naval ranks.:p

Phantom-like Menace
10-25-2006, 02:06 AM
Since the Miniseries...Plus there was the one episode where after she was in shock, Rosalin tells Billy to use her Rank/Name to get her to snap out of it. It was an NCO rank.

I was blowing some time this afternoon and was checking out the most recent episode again (Had to check out that awesome atmospheric FTL entry/drop/viper launch/exit again!). I'd missed Lee directly addressing her as lieutenant. And now that pbarnard reminded us, I definitely remember the incedent with Roslin and Billy when they address her as petty officer.

As an aside, it's been a few days and I'm still ****ed they blew up Pegasus.

Edit: Oh, yeah, I'm also ****ed the site censors ****ed.

JEDIpartner
10-25-2006, 12:58 PM
Can we write Laura Roslin in for the next Presidential Election? I'd totally vote for her.

pbarnard
10-25-2006, 03:01 PM
Can we write Laura Roslin in for the next Presidential Election? I'd totally vote for her.

The question is how to do it. Both I think would involve Adama. First, he goes back and says to whatever resembles the Quorum/Courts that the election results were overturned but that they should be reversed. 2nd is that due to Baltar's action, he's impeached, Adama holds the government in Trust and his "canidate" is than elected back into office and he cedes everything back to her.

And I wish everyone would get off the obsessing about Rank and demotion and how it will hurt them. Rank only became important when Cain came into the picture. Adama never emphasized it (nor did he ignore it). She's gone, the Pegasus (which had to be go for the show to continue and plots to be about the struggle of survival), gone, the rank contreversy should be gone. It also goes to the show's premise on survival. It doesn't matter if some one is called Admiral, Captain, Petty Officer or The Purple Cockatoo when the important thing is to get the population numbers up.

30k is probably dangerous close to the lower limits that would allow a species to keep diversifying. Genes aren't as stable as you think (comes from a physiologist who hates genetics). Remember, unlike most animals, female humans live a great deal beyond their ability to reproduce. Males while capable of reproducing most of their adult life, go way down in the motility and "prime" factors in their sperm. So while they may have sufficient numbers, they may not have sufficient numbers in the proper roles to keep having babies.

So what does this have to do with the shows plot? There may not be enough females who can bare children available and there may not be enough balance between the sexes to keep the species going. All issues not examined as of yet. To further complicate matters eventually, saying there are enough to survive a generation or two, there will begin to be heavy inbreeding as the possiblity for continuing the species may depend on 1st and 2nd cousin offspring in the third filial generation.

And the final point, so far the only events of conception have taken place on planets. Even the Cylon-human hybrid was made on Caprica; Tyrol and Cally's babie on New Caprica etc. There maybe something that needs to occur on a terrestrial world in order for this to happen that the show's writers may want to meta insert (or not).

Phantom-like Menace
10-26-2006, 03:20 AM
And I wish everyone would get off the obsessing about Rank and demotion and how it will hurt them. Rank only became important when Cain came into the picture. Adama never emphasized it (nor did he ignore it). She's gone, the Pegasus (which had to be go for the show to continue and plots to be about the struggle of survival), gone, the rank contreversy should be gone. It also goes to the show's premise on survival. It doesn't matter if some one is called Admiral, Captain, Petty Officer or The Purple Cockatoo when the important thing is to get the population numbers up.

You've got quite a definition for obsession. It's been discussed, mostly in terms of, "Oh, yes, now I remember." Otherwise, I'd be drastically surprised if these rapid promotions (in rank, in position, in general importance--I don't care which) paired with equally rapid loss of the same isn't brought up in the show for drama. People engage in drama, not logic, so regardless of what is important, they will engage in whatever is petty and insignificant. You don't need to look any farther than modern elections to see importance being passed up for drama.


30k is probably dangerous close to the lower limits that would allow a species to keep diversifying. Genes aren't as stable as you think (comes from a physiologist who hates genetics). Remember, unlike most animals, female humans live a great deal beyond their ability to reproduce. Males while capable of reproducing most of their adult life, go way down in the motility and "prime" factors in their sperm. So while they may have sufficient numbers, they may not have sufficient numbers in the proper roles to keep having babies.

So what does this have to do with the shows plot? There may not be enough females who can bare children available and there may not be enough balance between the sexes to keep the species going. All issues not examined as of yet. To further complicate matters eventually, saying there are enough to survive a generation or two, there will begin to be heavy inbreeding as the possiblity for continuing the species may depend on 1st and 2nd cousin offspring in the third filial generation.

Okay, the only reason I've had as many biology classes in my life as I have is because I hate biology only slightly less than I hate chemistry and physics, and none of my classes have gone into genetics very much, so I am talking out of my backside, so take this with that warning.

There is a widely held theory that mankind almost became extinct when the population was reduced to that of a small village, something like 2,000 people. Now, I know that theory may or may not be accurate, but regardless of whether or not it's correct, none of the arguments I've heard against it involve a lack of genetic diversity. If I had a population of 2,000 people, though, I'd be inclined to regulate reproduction, especially who can reproduce with whom.

Otherwise, the first thought that came to my mind is the native population of the Pacific Islanders. I would have a hard time thinking some of those Micronesians or Melanesians have access to a population nearly as large as 30,000, but I know they've been living out there for thousands of years. The stories I've been told of Marshallese courting involve poking a stick into the next tent to see if the lady is interested, not floating on an outrigger for days or weeks then poking the tent. I'm sure there are numerous isolated human populations to point to with the same situation.

I know I've heard numerous times estimates of the smallest human population that could maintain genetic diversity and it seems all of those were well under 30,000. But again, no fancy genetics learning here, so all of the above is more or less to be understood to have a question mark on the end of it.

pbarnard
10-26-2006, 06:16 PM
I'll cede you the 2000 that are necessary, but you missed my point. They need to have 2000 who are actually capable to have children, not just 2000+ people.

Between 3 sites where i'm in similar conversations, people are "obsessing" about ranks saying how they wouldn't want to take demotions for plot reasons and what not. Getting caught in the minutia (just correcting facts here ;) ) and missing the obvious, rank doesn't matter unless they start having babies.

Phantom-like Menace
10-26-2006, 07:10 PM
I'll cede you the 2000 that are necessary, but you missed my point. They need to have 2000 who are actually capable to have children, not just 2000+ people.

Between 3 sites where i'm in similar conversations, people are "obsessing" about ranks saying how they wouldn't want to take demotions for plot reasons and what not. Getting caught in the minutia (just correcting facts here ;) ) and missing the obvious, rank doesn't matter unless they start having babies.

I would truly assume they have a disproportionate number of women and children, given the drive to save the women and children. Just based on any theory that there are a disproportionate number of children, they're probably just a few years away from quite a population boom. Otherwise, polygyny would be an option, artificial insemination of fertile females who don't want to become second, third, fourth wives etc. Their society might even lower the acceptable age for children to marry or lower the socially acceptable age for a previously minor girl to marry an adult male. They'll be fine.:thumbsup:

pbarnard
10-26-2006, 08:09 PM
All interesting plot devices if they'd just explore the issue. They sorta did when Starbuck was captured on Caprica, but it could go a whole lot deeper.

sith_killer_99
10-27-2006, 12:51 PM
The simple fact is, that if they decided to use human re-production as a major plot line they would loose viewers. Could they do it, yes, should they do it...no. They can and will dance around the issue, side bar issues like abortion, etc. but the issue directly, no.

Reproduction is just a boring plot line, just like many other issues, rank, etc. Sure it's all interesting to discuss on boards, but it dosen't make for very good Sci-Fi TV.

In fact, as good as it's gotten, they have strayed off target. They need to pull the fleet back together and keep searching for Earth, fraggin' Cylons along the way and building cool and interesting plot twists in the background.

pbarnard
10-27-2006, 10:11 PM
Ok, anyone notice tha the lighting for Baltar in the basestar is just like the for John Colicos in the old series? I'm waiting for Lucifer to walk in and go, "By your command".

The Zarek/Rosalin thing broke pretty much as I expected. Her offering him the Vice President was a little of a twist. Of course, we find out later why he wanted to drag out the transition for 4 days.

Interesting commentary tonight on the role or executive power, military tribunals, and what not. Anyone think that the offer of Vice President is gone now?

JediTricks
10-28-2006, 11:18 PM
The interiors of the basestar felt like a greenscreen set, I didn't see that hazy connection to the original series until you just mentioned it.

I didn't expect Zarek to be sponsoring the secret juries, that was a good twist. The rest I did actually feel was telegraphed, right down to the Gaeta ending. Kara is a mad little monkey!

Yeah, I suspect Tom Zarek is going to end up not being VP.

sith_killer_99
10-29-2006, 12:06 AM
Kara is a mad little monkey!

ROTFLMFAO!!lol lol

Yeah she was pretty jacked up in the head over everything. I figured Gaeda would get through it, I like the way he stayed defiant "I won't beg" and it was Kara who inadvertantly tiped off Chief.

Legal?!?! WTF, I guess they had to do something to cover everyone's arses.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: It was much cooler when it seemed like clandestine vengence Tigh snaps and goes vigilante etc. Oh well.

I called the VP thing, but I think your right, that might be out the window...or not, the President is a woman of her word. They may just find another way to write him out of the job, the writers seem to be good at doing that sort of stuff.:yes: :yes:

pbarnard
11-03-2006, 11:09 PM
1--Airlock/Starbuck Tormentor (white male blonde)
2--Doral/Tour Guide Castoff (white male burnette)
3--Xena/Reporter (white female off blonde)
4--Doctor (older black male)
5--Bro. Cavell/Dean Stockwell (older white male)
6--Gina/Blonde/Caprica (white female blonde)
7--
8--Sharon/Boomer (asian female)
9--
10--
11--
12--

Seems we won't be revealed the last 5 anytime soon for cryptic Cylon reasons. Interesting thing on the Cylon psyche of projection. Sounds Kierkergaardian/Berkelian (pronounced Barkley) philosophy to me.

the other thing, was Hybrid not included in the number of 12 because she's integrated into the ship?

Val Da Car
11-04-2006, 12:57 AM
1--Airlock/Starbuck Tormentor (white male blonde)
2--Doral/Tour Guide Castoff (white male burnette)
3--Xena/Reporter (white female off blonde)
4--Doctor (older black male)
5--Bro. Cavell/Dean Stockwell (older white male)
6--Gina/Blonde/Caprica (white female blonde)
7--
8--Sharon/Boomer (asian female)
9--
10--
11--
12--

Seems we won't be revealed the last 5 anytime soon for cryptic Cylon reasons. Interesting thing on the Cylon psyche of projection. Sounds Kierkergaardian/Berkelian (pronounced Barkley) philosophy to me.

the other thing, was Hybrid not included in the number of 12 because she's integrated into the ship?


The virus plot in the nebula is a nice little twist....almost as good as Baltar on the remaining cylon...

I think the virus is a old germ that the cylons have never been exposed to from the canister. Nice lighthouse reference between the canister and the pulsar.

Blue2th
11-04-2006, 01:43 PM
This was a great episode! So many close-ups of the Base Stars. Man I hope someone does a die-cast of these! They are alot more symetrical than I thought. The Hybrid running them is cool. Looking like they are reaching orgasm/bliss when they jump. Nice touch. So Baltar did ask the question of whether he is a Cylon. (thought I saw that in a preview many episodes ago) I don't think it was really proved one way or the other, as he was wearing a space suit. Though probably not. Interesting twist of number 6 knowing about the probe that Baltar failed to mention. She's not spilling his secret for some reason. Love? Tigh needs an eyepatch. That gauze pad has got to go.

pbarnard
11-04-2006, 01:55 PM
Though probably not. Interesting twist of number 6 knowing about the probe that Baltar failed to mention. She's not spilling his secret for some reason. Love? Tigh needs an eyepatch. That gauze pad has got to go.

Goes to the theory of projection. Since she's Caprica Six, she is able to penetrate Baltar's ability to project what he wants to the Cylons. It adds to the mystery of is he or isn't he a Cylon. Of course, we'll find out out 4 other models probably before this one.

Speculation...If we get to see the Cylon homeworld (where they went after the armictice till hitting the colonies) want to bet that at least 4 of the other models have called it quits and never wanted to fight with them to begin with and have been "black boxed"? The fifth model is or isn't Baltar/God/Imperious Leader.

sith_killer_99
11-04-2006, 02:12 PM
Another great episode!

Lee finally got rid of that aweful fat suit! LOL

I loved that confrontation between Adama and Starbuck and Tigh! It looks like Starbuck is on her way back. I almost wanted Tigh to off himself. It's too bad, because he's a great character, but his recovery from everything that has happened is going to take a LONG time. The writters have a big challenge ahead of them to get him through this.

Interesting twist on the other five Cylon models, it should make for some great future episodes. It will be interesting to see what happens to Sharon (Athena) when this Cylon disease is discovered. Will the doc be able to come up with a Cylon cure? Hmmmm

The Basestars are awesome, the whole "projection" thing is pretty cool and shows the connection with Baltar and Six. Baltar is not a Cylon, I've never bought that, but I suspect they will preserve the theory.

Here's one theory. The Cylons were split on the issue of attacking Earth, six to six. The first six models say "Crush 'em" the second six are different and oppose the idea, they want to remain seperate and go about their business. Then they convince model eight to go along with them, majority rules, but the other five models remain out of the fight. This would explain eight's conflicted feelings, her reluctance to kill the humans, the "that model has always been weak" comment, etc.

Anyway, it's just a theory.:D :D

pbarnard
11-04-2006, 03:05 PM
I don't know if Starbuck is back...probably filing for divorce (the cutting the hair). Although we'll see. She did enter the refugee section with her bag, that seems to imply leaving the ship.

sith_killer_99
11-04-2006, 03:44 PM
Probably not "back" but at least on "her way back" starting down the right road. The meeting with Casey shows she's begining to heal. The fact that she cut her hair and put on her uniform indicated to me that she wants to be the person she was, as opposed to Tigh, who said "that person dosen't exist any more".

I think we will see her back in a Viper by the end of the Season, as for a divorce?!?!? We will see.

JediTricks
11-04-2006, 07:22 PM
I thought it was a pretty good ep, but it felt very compressed, like this is stuff that should have taken at least twice as many episodes to tell, especially the Baltar storyline, they moved the series along to a whole new pace but at the same time I don't think this 1 episode can transition it by itself.

pbarnard
11-04-2006, 08:48 PM
The webextra from this week was worth watching. Shows a scene of the Colonials boarding it with Athena, and wondering what the frak they're seeing.

pbarnard
11-06-2006, 11:18 PM
Flipping between BSG and Monday Night Football atm, and I got to thinking, what if the blonde woman walking down the corridor that Tigh thinks was his wife is Casiopia? That's the sole "major" character they have left to touch in this series. Of course, they've twisted the fact that in the original the Geminons were "loose" while in this incarnation they're the most fundamental/literalists of the 12.

Back to the Casiopia idea, what if she's the means to get Tigh back to some resemblance of himself? Or is there some other character who is the Casiopia figure in this series (perhaps split between Rosalin and Dee).

pbarnard
12-08-2006, 10:19 PM
Interesting that Baltar is now searching for the remaining 5 Cylon models.

Bad news Hot Dog, you're the only nugget left from Starbuck's first training group.

Midseason finale next week.

JediTricks
12-09-2006, 07:32 PM
Fairly good episode, but Kat's big reveal felt like a letdown, the ads overhyped that and even in the storyline it didn't feel like it really was saying as much as they wanted. Their plan made no sense to me, why only 1 pilot each, why only 1 raptor per ship? It felt like they did all that specifically to kill Kat, the story serving that end rather than having it form organically. Still, generally a solid ep.

Hot Dog being Edward James Olmos' son, I doubt they're gonna ice him. :p

pbarnard
12-10-2006, 10:39 PM
http://screenings.tvguide.com/programs/detail/4

If you live in NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta or St. Louis you can register to watch the season 3 midseason finale before it airs on Dec 15.

JediTricks
12-10-2006, 10:56 PM
Oh man, here in LA it's at the theater in the Westside Pavilion mall, my old teenage stomping grounds. That multi-theater used to be total crap, teeny tiny and THEN they split it into 5 screens so each room holds maybe 40 people at best IIRC. If it were at a different theater I'd think about it, but at this one I'm gonna pass. Thanks for the info though.

Phantom-like Menace
12-11-2006, 01:51 AM
I didn't pay enough attention to the episode to decide whether the plan made any sense.

I'm going to miss the Kat character, but not because of any fondness for the character. Several of my friends hate Michelle Rodriguez because she always plays the same character: the badass girl with an attitude, which they find funny given her size or lack thereof. Kat, though not played by Rodriguez, immediately reminded them of every character Rodriguez has ever played. Add to that the fact that she vaguely resembles Rodriguez, and she was immediately dubbed "Space Michelle Rodriguez." It's such a stupid name with little creativity used in its formation, but it makes me laugh every time. Simple mind I guess.

figrin bran
01-04-2007, 01:58 AM
i still don't have cable and so i had to watch the season 3.0 episodes via itunes.

i would've liked to see the new caprica story arc last a few more episodes than it did.

for the "Passage" episode, i just had a feeling that Kat wasn't going to make it...if any of you watch Lost (speaking of michelle rodriguez), anytime a character that isn't a main character, gets an episode with lots of flashbacks and/or revelations about their past history, it's often a sign that they won't make it past the episode.

if it turns out that Baltar is a Cylon, that would so anticlimactic and obvious. like we didn't see it coming.

Phantom-like Menace
01-22-2007, 01:22 AM
Some spoilers for Rapture:














I really thought they would show us something concrete about the final five. As much as I agree it would be obvious that Baltar is a Cylon, it really makes the most sense. There seemed to be some more implication that Baltar is one of the final five, but that's nothing new. I'm thinking mostly about Xena's reaching out to one of the final five in her vision and the scene cutting to Baltar taking her hand.

When Al from Quantum Leap pulled the plug on Xena to have her boxed, I was hoping her bathtub would flush her like a toilet.

I'm beginning to decide that every problem and every solution involving the Cylons is for them to eat a bullet.

Blue2th
01-22-2007, 02:50 AM
I don't think it proved either way that Baltar is a Cylon. So we're left hanging again. I thought I heard Number 6 (in his head) say that he was the chosen one and not Xena number 3? Had a visitor come over right after that so I had to turn the TV down and I missed the rest dammit.....That would've been cool to see her flushed. I agree with your solution "Frack them Toasters!"

JediTricks
01-22-2007, 09:26 PM
I found this one disappointing. This was another episode where stuff happens and then stuff happens and then more stuff happens without any of the "why" or any of the ramifications happening around it. It wasn't just the last 10 minutes that were compressed, the whole thing was compressed and thus unsatisfying.

- Why didn't Baltar treat Hera? He's a doctor, or at least has some medical training from what we've seen him do in season 1.
- How does Tyrol not notice a large eye-shaped stone with the shape in it on the floor?
- Why/how are the Cylons able to use the humans' temple?
- What happened to the centurions on the planet after the second battle when they retreated? Why didn't they attack again when the team was busy readying the destruction of the temple?
- What was the temple really about? Total letdown.
- No emotional context shown for Caprica 6's decisions, she just worries for a second and then "does".
- Duala finding Starbuck - completely unsatisfying.
- What did D'anna see in her vision? They cheated us on that.
- How did the fleets jump out of the area so easily when it was such a pain in the *** to jump in?
- And then BAM! Starbuck's a prophet at the end.

This was an extremely empty episode. My guess is that they wanted to spend 3 or 4 more episodes on the algae planet but the weak response to New Caprica left them terrified of another viewer revolt.

figrin bran
01-24-2007, 12:29 AM
According to http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/main/

Diamond Select Toys is making BSG figures!

Phantom-like Menace
01-24-2007, 12:44 AM
I don't think it proved either way that Baltar is a Cylon.

Did it prove anything? No. Did it imply? Yes. Actually, the more they imply that he is a Cylon, the more I figure they are setting us up to find out that he isn't.


Why/how are the Cylons able to use the humans' temple?

What did D'anna see in her vision? They cheated us on that.

I don't think the series is explaining the Cylons remotely enough. I have no idea what's going on with most of their story right now. The series almost seems to be two different shows that two different sets of writers work on with little or no input or communication between the two. It seems like every once in a while characters from one of the two shows make guest appearances on the other then go back to their own show without adding anything more to the whole.

JediTricks
01-24-2007, 08:40 PM
I don't think the series is explaining the Cylons remotely enough. I have no idea what's going on with most of their story right now. The series almost seems to be two different shows that two different sets of writers work on with little or no input or communication between the two. It seems like every once in a while characters from one of the two shows make guest appearances on the other then go back to their own show without adding anything more to the whole.
That is SO true! A great way of putting it. They barely even shoot at each other anymore.

figrin bran
01-25-2007, 02:32 AM
Caprica Six helps Sharon escape from the basestar with Hera and there's not so much as a centurion trying to stop them?? a raptor launches and no one is alerted??? and why does 6 help her so readily?

the show hasn't been picked up for a fourth season and so that might explain all the wishy washy directions the show has taken lately

JediTricks
01-26-2007, 05:31 PM
Caprica Six helps Sharon escape from the basestar with Hera and there's not so much as a centurion trying to stop them?? a raptor launches and no one is alerted??? and why does 6 help her so readily? Yeah, that's a good point, how did they not notice? Then again, how did they not notice D'anna sent out a squad of centurions when they first jumped in? Sloppy types of writing meant to get through to the next stuff easier - but it shouldn't be easier, it should be what it should be, it should tell a story organically which BSG did quite well until this season.

figrin bran
01-30-2007, 10:57 PM
So "Taking a Break from all your Worries" was that good of an episode, eh? seeing that no one's talking about it ;)

should i even bother watching it? i've read a synopsis and could care less about the Lee/Kara storyline right now

Phantom-like Menace
01-30-2007, 11:34 PM
So "Taking a Break from all your Worries" was that good of an episode, eh? seeing that no one's talking about it ;)

should i even bother watching it? i've read a synopsis and could care less about the Lee/Kara storyline right now

I didn't think it was terrible. It seemed little was accomplished, though they at least weren't mashing the reset button as hard as they have been. I'm not huge on the Lee/Kara thing either, but there has been an interesting question raised about Gaeta, specifically something he may have done on New Caprica.

JediTricks
01-31-2007, 11:43 PM
This was an alright episode, I felt like it finally decompressed a little after all the over-compression in the storylines. I didn't buy Rosalin believing Baltar not being a part of the genocide though, he basically is saying even he's not sure - that should have raised some red flags! The ep felt a little like they cut some interesting storyline stuff to get more of the clunky Apollo/Starbuck junk into the episode, but hopefully that'll wrap that muck up soon at least. However, the extended version of the cut scene was far more interesting than the soap opera BS.

Gaeta stabbing Baltar in the neck seemed over the top, a friend of mine says he listened to Ron Moore's podcast about it and Baltar said he'd give false implications on Gaeta in that whisper - they shouldn't be saving stuff like that for podcasts!!!

JEDIpartner
02-02-2007, 02:04 PM
My biggest complaint about the show this season is how they've just got no clue how to write Lee anymore. First he has a fling with a prostitute in last season and then it all went downhill from there. First he's fat this season... then he's cheating on his wife... then he's an alcoholic... Whatever!!! I love a flawed character but they are writing him like Markie Post in a series of Lifetime Movies!!! :frus: While they are fixing Lee... how about making Dee less of a dimwit. She was so smart when the series started and now she's a raging idiot.

Thankfully, they haven't mucked up the characters of Bill Adama and Laura Roslin. Flawed but noble... I love them!!!

JediTricks
02-17-2007, 06:44 AM
I don't know what it was about the last episode, but I absolutely loathed it, I hated sitting through it, I could predict every possible beat because the writers telegraphed everything a mile off and stole constantly from the cliched TV drama playbook. And it was *such* a "now-message" episode, this ****'s always been somewhat preachy but they've really started laying it on thick lately and this one was among the worst. And a lot of supporting characters were written "off" for no reason, especially Tom Zerek in his fear mode. And nothing really happened here even though it was a compressed ep.

And including a vital part of the plot as "Previously on..." was lowest of the low! This season's been cutting out all sorts of scenes that were character development and drama, but to actually cut out a scene explaining how we got there and shove it into the prologue pretending it came from another episode, that's LOW.

plasticfetish
02-19-2007, 06:26 AM
As much as I do like the show, the last few episodes have been very missable. Been enjoying the Dresden Files more to be honest.

JediTricks
02-19-2007, 04:40 PM
I thought last night's episode worked pretty well, it was character-driven all the way and they could have spent even more time with each storyline. The "bonus scene" at the end was totally unnecessary though and served only to explain what we were about to be shown anyway. I also liked that people just were people in this, nobody had a huge life-changing revelation or admitted something that would be detrimental to their relationships, life continued on Galactica.


Dresden Files I have been not so in love with, but I am generally intrigued enough to return to it each week and it does seem to be getting tighter with each episode. I wish there was more focus on the atmosphere with which our Wizard PI lived though, the city and such seem very generic (because they're Canada and meant to be) rather than a unique version of Chicago. I only noticed last night that Nick Cage is one of the exec producers.

JediTricks
02-26-2007, 04:17 PM
Last night's ep was uneventful, boring, and another "message" ep. Plus, it really would have been nice to have a story arc there across multiple episodes rather than pile it all onto 1, that seems to be a running theme with season 3 where a story is told in 1 ep rather than spread out across multiple threads - it leads to less character development, less displaying nuance of the situation, and a feeling of a pat ending. This ep ended in such a happy and uneventful manner it could have been the original BSG.

plasticfetish
02-26-2007, 09:07 PM
It was another "message" episode, but I liked this one. I was getting a little tired of these realationship dramas, and like how they addressed something more relevant to survival.

I'm okay with this being a single episode story -- though it refers to past episodes, and will relate to future ones also. The rolling stories can be hard for people that might miss an episode here and there, and for people watching them out of order as reruns. (As much as I loved Farscape, I think the show was hard to follow because of this. Same goes for Enterprise.)

pbarnard
02-27-2007, 12:06 PM
Plus they can always bring up some of the themes later of how the civilians look for right now while the military officers are looking long term. This episode will come to bite them later on.

JediTricks
02-27-2007, 09:00 PM
I'm not buyin' it, an episode where they create and then fix a problem usually ends up being a throw-away, hell even the Simpsons takes pot shots at this when someone will goof on their lives returning to normal next week. With a problem this big, it should have overwhelmed the fleet's lives for more than 5 minutes. Also, situations like this all bundled into 1 ep offer too much room to writers who NEED a character to act a certain way whether it's in their nature or not - Adama and Rosalin's reactions to Tyrol are way too blunt because there's no time to show any nuance, then we have to create Baltar all of a sudden being a jailed author a la Hitler writing Mein Kampf. There's no time for character development in all that because it's unthreaded, instead the characters are moved from situation to situation at the necessity of the plot.

figrin bran
02-27-2007, 10:27 PM
i haven't watched any of the episodes since "taking a break from all your worries" but perhaps these one off self contained episodes were a necessity prompted by the series not being picked up for next season yet. now that it has been renewed, hopefully the writing gets stronger.

JediTricks
02-28-2007, 03:29 PM
It has been picked up for next season, but it's only a 13-ep order at this point. It's not like these have to be mega-threads, even 3 episodes would have spaced some of these stories out enough.

Adam
03-05-2007, 01:21 AM
Tonight's episode was kinda boring to me. It was hyped up too much.

OC47150
03-05-2007, 08:30 AM
I don't freakin' believe it. :shocked:

figrin bran
03-05-2007, 11:42 AM
i haven't watched it yet but i've been reading spoilers. i don't think that's the last we've seen of that person.

pbarnard
03-05-2007, 01:59 PM
Question is which way are they going to take this plot. They can borrow two from the original series: Starbuck as the herald/agent of the Lords of Kobol. Starbuck as the star child care taker.

They can go with the obvious and least gratifying, Starbuck is a Cylon. Mostly it was done to do something to drive Lee much the way his animosity with his father, than the sexual tension with her did later. She'll be back around the cliffhanger time.

Phantom-like Menace
03-05-2007, 03:44 PM
Spoilers












I made the call a few episodes ago that the Cylon Xena saw among the five was Starbuck. I too figure we haven't seen the last of her.

JediTricks
03-05-2007, 04:37 PM
Regarding that episode last night, I think the bard put it best when he penned the phrase "much ado about nothing". A whole lot of beats but no notes behind them. We learn almost nothing new about the character, the herald stuff is paid the smallest amount of lip service then drifts lazily back into the "eye" without saying what that's meant to convey, and the stuff about fearing what's beyond death made no sense whatsoever. Nothing came of it at all except her death, and I don't think anybody's ever needed permission for that before. It came off like it was SUPPOSED to have meaning but actually didn't, very unrewarding.

A friend of mine thinks Kara ejected in time, I don't buy it since there's no seat, no vapor trails, no chute, and even if she ejected the atmosphere was supposed to instantly crush her. I think that'd be an even bigger cop-out than her being a Cylon - and that's a HUGE cop-out (especially since we've seen a noteworthy specific past about her and her mother).

pbarnard
03-05-2007, 05:03 PM
A friend of mine thinks Kara ejected in time, I don't buy it since there's no seat, no vapor trails, no chute, and even if she ejected the atmosphere was supposed to instantly crush her. I think that'd be an even bigger cop-out than her being a Cylon - and that's a HUGE cop-out (especially since we've seen a noteworthy specific past about her and her mother).

First off it wouldn't be visible in all atmospheres. I assume this was a gas giant, so just like the tint of light depends on the Raliegh scattering by ozone in the upper atmosphere, not everything that works as one thinks should happen.

As to her being having her flashbacks, 2 things. First, Cylons can be programmed. Sharron Boomer was programmed with parents, a childhood and all the rest. It was after her activation and downloading that she became Cylon full fledged. Next, the concept of Cylon projection. the programming could be just enabling her to see what she wants in order to carry out her mission.

I don't think that's likely. We were revealed early on that Boomer was a Cylon (in the miniseries). When they want to reveal a Cylon, they do it pretty blatantly. Cryptic hints say not happening. As to what Diana saw, goes to Cylon psychology and projection again. She probably saw herself.

JediTricks
03-05-2007, 05:41 PM
Look at the scene, you can see tiny debris and you can see a clear view between the explosion and Apollo's Mk VII Viper.

Plus, having her eject in time and picked up by the heavy raider, how can that not be a cop out?

Sharon had vague memories of a family, Kara had very specific memories of her mother, as well as the physical wounds which correlate to that (her fingers had breaks in them from the abuse) - and her mother was military so it's an easy thing to check up on. Plus, they would be going to an awful lot of BS just to mindfrack an unknowing cylon when she was in that "egg farm" hospital on post-apocalyptic Caprica.

pbarnard
03-05-2007, 06:44 PM
That's just it, they don't know she was a Cylon either so to mindrack her on the egg farm is something that would explain Diana's appology.

Not saying it isn't a cop out, but that the observations one expect may not always happen.

Blue2th
03-05-2007, 07:46 PM
They did have a two second shot of Starbuck's hand on the ejection apparatus. This probably alludes to her ejecting. What happens after that is anyones guess....This episode at least had some nice beautiful large shots of both types of Vipers, and some cool flying sequences.

JEDIpartner
03-06-2007, 09:17 AM
Perhaps she meant she wasn't afraid of being captured in order to fullfil her destiny. Maybe she was meant to be some sort of intermediate between the Cylons and the Humans.

JediTricks
03-07-2007, 07:35 PM
They did have a two second shot of Starbuck's hand on the ejection apparatus. This probably alludes to her ejecting. What happens after that is anyones guess....This episode at least had some nice beautiful large shots of both types of Vipers, and some cool flying sequences.The shots of her hand hovering NEAR the ejection lever came well before the ship actually broke up and exploded though, it didn't track with a suggestion of ejection, it was more implying hesitation or a change of mind - as if she were fighting her training so she wouldn't eject.

JEDIpartner
03-12-2007, 09:33 AM
Ron Moore said "she's dead" in the podcast. :(

OC47150
03-12-2007, 10:02 AM
Good episode. Glad they didn't gloss over the events from last week's episode.

Balter kinda reminds me of Charlie Manson: just out there!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue2th
03-12-2007, 09:57 PM
I liked the Scottish Lawyer character in last night's episode. Hope they keep him around for a while. I wonder if it's the last we will ever see that officer who planted the bombs. He'll be in the brig for a while I imagine........... Either Starbuck ejected or she's a Cylon. It really hasn't been explained how Cylons are made. Do they have an original human to copy? If so, another possibility is the original Starbuck is still in the hospital on Caprica.

JediTricks
03-12-2007, 10:41 PM
I thought last night's episode was pretty good, I would have liked to see a scene somewhere with Vipers practicing dogfighting or something just to remind us we're watching an action show, but otherwise the characters did stuff I felt worked organically with who they are quite nicely and the plot went somewhere that worked. I liked how the lawyer was able to manipulate 6 into showing her hand about how she'd deal with Baltar's testimony, should it come to that. I also liked how Sam and Lee sorta bonded over Kara's death rather than fought over it, their mourning brought them together.

One thing that I thought was a sticking point was how the bomber was revealed to be Kelly (someone we see what, 3 times a year?), I thought he said Cally which they had given slight suggestion to the possibility of. Not like they can change Kelly's name though, they'd have to change the character altogether. Also, Lee calling Racetrack "Starbuck" felt a tad heavy-handed, but it did convey the emotions lickety split.

What happened to the lawyer's cat after it ran out of the Raptor and got the bomb discovered?

OC47150
03-13-2007, 08:05 AM
I wonder if it's the last we will ever see that officer who planted the bombs. He'll be in the brig for a while I imagine...........

This was a storyline I would've liked to seen for a few more episodes. You know there are people in the fleet against Baltar and what extremes are they going to to stop him from getting a trial, let alone a free trial.

Blue2th
03-13-2007, 09:36 AM
What happened to the lawyer's cat after it ran out of the Raptor and got the bomb discovered?

The Cat! I forgot about him. Nobody seems to like him. The lawyer's X-wifes cat, he even hates it. They should do another story featuring the cat getting into some kinda trouble. I loved those short pieces of Data's cat Spot causing havoc in TNG.

pbarnard
03-13-2007, 05:23 PM
I like the bigger cultural message they're making about Baltar's trial as a human trait: tell us the things we want to hear, and we'll forget everything you did no matter how terrible.

JediTricks
03-14-2007, 05:44 AM
Giving Baltar a trial is a mistake as bad as holding elections in the first place that put him into power, there are certain things that shouldn't happen no matter what when the chips are down that badly. Look at Rosalin throwing Leoben out the airlock in season 1, that's the kind of decision the ruling powers of the rag-tag fleet need to make until they're at least safe enough to proverbially take extended breaths, but instead she starts giving in on everything like this and it detracts from the organic flow of the series.


Looks like the **** hits the fan next week with Lee giving up his commission to become a lawyerette, and taking some sort of cheap shot at Rosalin while she's on the stand (my guess is he asks about her feelings concerning the senior Adama). I'm not sure I'm going to be able to buy such a rigorous defense of Baltar this quickly, but apparently they've run out of time to tell stories. :(

Daz
03-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Blue2th
I liked the Scottish Lawyer character in last night's episode.


He was Irish not scottish best I can tell, sounded like colin farrel as bullseye in daredevil.

JediTricks
03-15-2007, 04:51 PM
The actor who plays Romo Lampkin is British, one of his parents is Irish though. I think I've heard him do other accents.

Daz
03-15-2007, 06:17 PM
JediTricks
The actor who plays Romo Lampkin is British, one of his parents is Irish though. I think I've heard him do other accents.


yeh I know was just saying he played the role with what sounded to me an irish accent.

JediTricks
03-15-2007, 07:23 PM
I understood, I was just giving some background. Plus, there's no Irish in the BSG fleet since there's no Ireland. :p

OC47150
03-16-2007, 09:24 AM
Mark Sheppard is a good character actor. One of his more memorable roles is the pyrotechnic guy in a first season episode of the X-Files called Fire.

Phantom-like Menace
03-24-2007, 01:36 AM
Apparently Sci-Fi channel has increased the run of season four episodes from 13 to 22 episodes. There also will be a two-hour television movie detailing Pegasus' adventures from the Cylon attack until they met up with Galactica.

You hear that BSG staff? That's a reprieve. Let's straighten up and fly right and stop making so many missteps. Your episodes right after New Caprica proved you still have it in you, so let's do this.


Plus, there's no Irish in the BSG fleet since there's no Ireland.

I figured he was from Arelon. My Scotch-irish ancestry had to laugh that the guys from Arelon sounded like they lived life well enough by my standards.


Mark Sheppard is a good character actor. One of his more memorable roles is the pyrotechnic guy in a first season episode of the X-Files called Fire.

And he was Badger on Firefly. I'm finding Lampkin to be quite entertaining. It's easy to go wrong with a quirky character like that, but they're doing him well I think.

mtriv73
03-25-2007, 06:19 PM
I was selecting BSG on the Direct tv (so it will just automatically come on when it's time in the very off chance that I forget about it.) At any rate, Katee Sackhoff was creditied as appearing tonight.

Is this a mistake?

Will Starbuck be back already?

I guess I'll know in 3 hours...unless I forget to watch it.

P.S. That's great news about season 4 being extended. I was really worried about just 13 episodes. I thought it might be the end of the line for my favorite show.

JediTricks
03-25-2007, 10:35 PM
Apparently Sci-Fi channel has increased the run of season four episodes from 13 to 22 episodes. There also will be a two-hour television movie detailing Pegasus' adventures from the Cylon attack until they met up with Galactica.

You hear that BSG staff? That's a reprieve. Let's straighten up and fly right and stop making so many missteps. Your episodes right after New Caprica proved you still have it in you, so let's do this.You know, just the other day I suspected they'd end up ordering a full run for season 4, they'd end up doing it in 2 parts that'd be more separated than usually. I'm glad to see they're getting the full run now, and like you said, they need to pull their stuff together now more than ever.

Pegasus story could be cool, it should be the entertaining parts of BSG with all the hard mean choices nobody on the show is ever able to make, and hopefully none of the stupid soap opera crap we suffer so much lately.

So, is the suspicion here that they reupped BSG and went to Peg TV movie because their Caprica show has fallen off the radar? That's my guess.



And he was Badger on Firefly. I'm finding Lampkin to be quite entertaining. It's easy to go wrong with a quirky character like that, but they're doing him well I think.Yeah, I remember him as Badger there, I think he's doing a better job here and I think he's a better character actor at this age than when he did Firefly back in 2002.



I was selecting BSG on the Direct tv (so it will just automatically come on when it's time in the very off chance that I forget about it.) At any rate, Katee Sackhoff was creditied as appearing tonight.

Is this a mistake?

Will Starbuck be back already?

I guess I'll know in 3 hours...unless I forget to watch it.

P.S. That's great news about season 4 being extended. I was really worried about just 13 episodes. I thought it might be the end of the line for my favorite show.The spoilers someone threw at me said she's coming back tonight.

mtriv73
03-25-2007, 11:15 PM
Well, She's back and she's been to Earth.

2008 for the next new episode?!

Frak the Sci-Fi channel! I'm not watching that channel again until a new episode airs. (Which really *expletives* because I liked Eureka.)

I wish they would move this show to NBC so we could get 32 episode seasons.

I don't know what to believe about 4 of the final 5. Is it for real? Are they pulling our legs again? Is Starbuck the 5th? By the time I find out, my four and a half months pregnant wife and I will have a frakking 4 month old child.

OC47150
03-26-2007, 09:26 AM
* Lee's speech while on the stand had for-your-Emmy-consideration written all over it. Great speech. Great emotion.

There was no other way for that trial to end.

* The whole Final 5 was a little anti-climatic for me. Part of me wants to believe it's them, but yet, part of me thinks it's a ruse just to throw the fans off.

* Roslyn's cancer's back. Interesting.

* Nice way to keep the fans hanging until January with Starbuck showing up.

* Finally the Cylons are back!!!

* Baltar being hustled off by the ladies will be an interesting storyline for next season.

* I enjoyed seeing Roslyn's aide get more screen time. She's a hottie!! :yes:

Phantom-like Menace
03-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Spoilers for the season finale













Well, the president's aide, Starbuck (I think it's clear she's the fifth, but I'm sure others will disagree), and Anders were on my short list for being Cylons. I had Dee on that list too, because I read somewhere that the writers very intentionally chose her first name, Anastasia, which means rebirth. Tigh I said would be a long shot. He's known Adama for decades! Just how far back were the Cylons making humanform Cyclons?

Now as far as the chief goes, I wanted desperately to put either Cally or him on my list, but I didn't for one very solid reason: they've reproduced. The writers are going to have to do one or two things in my opinion. They're going to have to inform us their child was with another man, and then there is going to have to be solid evidence that we should have figured that out, or they're going to have to stop making a big deal about Hera, because she's no longer special.

Dude! The Cylons are fans of Dylan! The best part was that I really wasn't paying attention to what they were saying when the music was affecting them, but I realized suddenly I had All Along the Watchtower stuck in my head, and I couldn't figure out why until I paid better attention. How weird was that? I hope we meet the Cylon god and it's Dylan himself. That'd be great.

pbarnard
03-26-2007, 04:46 PM
Yeah, the Dylan thing was interesting.

But, we only had 4 revealed. There's a fifth someplace out there. Explains why Tyrol and Sharron couldn't make a baby though. Tigh's reaction/dispostion would make for a great episode if and when those 4 reveal themselves to the other 6 (since the 3's were black boxed) and especially see him against the Cavil's.

And can I get some credit with Kara getting selected by the Lords of Kobol/lights and showing them how to get to Earth ala the first series?

Blue2th
03-27-2007, 07:16 PM
* The whole Final 5 was a little anti-climatic for me. Part of me wants to believe it's them, but yet, part of me thinks it's a ruse just to throw the fans off.


I think the Cylons messed with their heads with possible implants during interogation on New Caprica.

JediTricks
03-27-2007, 07:33 PM
(Which really *expletives* because I liked Eureka.)Eureka's kinda fallen off the radar, but supposedly is expected to return in July.


I wish they would move this show to NBC so we could get 32 episode seasons.Standard network orders are for 13, 22 or 26 eps, I haven't heard of a show in 35 years that got more than that. I think they can barely keep up with the 22 eps they're writing now, it's starting to feel a tad threadbare.


I don't know what to believe about 4 of the final 5. Is it for real? Are they pulling our legs again? Is Starbuck the 5th? By the time I find out, my four and a half months pregnant wife and I will have a frakking 4 month old child.That final 5 stuff is annoying! Now nearly every main character's a Cylon, it's silly. And Adama's known Tigh for 40 years, how could he be a Cylon? Made no sense to me. I would have preferred them to be heralds to the Lords of Kobol or something.



* Lee's speech while on the stand had for-your-Emmy-consideration written all over it. Great speech. Great emotion.

There was no other way for that trial to end. Only because they didn't know how to write any of that trial to begin with, it was such a goofy ending - no court would allow any of that, totally outlandish.


I dunno about this show anymore, I'm losing faith, that ending was so very rushed and frustrating, it really seems like they're spinning the plot out of control now and don't know what to do next.

Phantom-like Menace
03-28-2007, 12:33 AM
I've done a bit of digging, and I came up with the following two links:

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Rapture
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

I can't tell if RDM is just being coy or whether he has no damned clue. The implications of the above tend to favor Starbuck's not being the fifth Cylon, but I just have trouble buying it. Some mysterious music affects four--and only four--of the final five Cylons. Then those four--and only those four--of the final five Cylons feel compelled to come together and meet, and--oh yeah--the highly exaggeratedly dead Starbuck is completely coincidentally arriving while the Cylon music goes to lyrics. Xena doesn't have too many people to apologize to. Beyond Starbuck and Tigh, who else?

If misdirection wasn't intended, mission not accomplished. If misdirection was intended, heavy-handed much? Unless the next episode begins with the Final Five's Final Fifth Cylon's communication regretting an inability to make it to the first ever meeting of the Cylon Bob Dylan Fan Club, I'm assuming Starbuck toasts bread.

So Caprica is a go . . . of sorts. The two-hour Pegasus movie will happen in the fall to give us some Battlestar goodness before 2008.

OC47150
03-28-2007, 08:39 AM
And Phantom has a point we as fans may/may not have considered. Season 3 has been up and down, good episodes and so-so episodes, ratings are down a bit. The writers may have written themselves into a corner and are trying to find a way bring back and rally the fans.

I've read since Sunday different ideas and theories from fans and producers on the Final Five, and at this point, I still don't know what to believe.

The Pegasus movie will be interesting, and I can't wait for that.

JediTricks is right, too. No network show since the late 1960s has had more of a 26-episode run. The X-Files had a couple of 25-episode seasons. The WWII Combat! TV show had 32 episode seasons, except for its final fifth season, and then it was down to 20-something. We have those on DVD at hom.

OC47150
03-28-2007, 09:40 AM
From Ron Moore himself.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070327j.php

sicqnus
03-28-2007, 06:06 PM
I really enjoyed this last episode. The Bob Dylan thing is nice but I think this version is even better. The song will be in the Bear McCreary BSG soundtracks vol. II.

Moore said in an interview "Yes, the four - Tigh, Tyrol, Anders & Tori are Cylons." TV Week interview. Starbuck is most probably a Cylon.

Obviously Starbuck will be back in season 4. So the Cylons are the dog and the humans, the sheeps. But who is the shepherd ?

The Cylon god ?

JEDIpartner
03-28-2007, 10:47 PM
It really was quite good, wasn't it?

Final Cylon... Starbuck or Roslin? Roslin seemed to "feel" something right before the power drain.

mtriv73
06-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Does anyone know when (or if) season 3 will be out on DVD? I can't find anything on Sc-fi.com or even Universal's website.

I really want to go back and rewatch the season but I can't even find it on in re-runs at a time when I'm home.

OC47150
06-27-2007, 10:36 AM
TVshowsondvd.com didn't have season 3 listed.

But I would guess late fall or in time for Christmas.

chrisc
06-28-2007, 11:41 AM
Haha I bought it yesterday from a vendor here in Afghanistan!!! It's freakin awesome!!! Thats the only perk of being here!