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JediTricks
11-15-2006, 04:03 PM
I swear Sony is trying to put themselves out of business with all the issues with the PS3. This time it's the following from IMDB news:
New Debacle for Sony
In the latest embarrassment to strike Sony Corp., the company acknowledged today (Wednesday) that many games designed for the original PlayStation and PlayStation 2 consoles are not compatible with PlayStation 3. News of the problem follows the rash of bad publicity over production delays involving the device, consumer hesitancy over the company's Blu-ray high-definition DVD devices, and especially a recall of laptop batteries that the company had manufactured. Sony had been hoping that the hugely hyped Casino Royale, due out this weekend, would produce revenue to offset the earlier ordeals. Sony managers were in London Tuesday to demonstrate how they planned to integrate the marketing of their products with the new film. Later in the day they attended the premiere of the movie at the Odeon Leicester Square theater -- along with Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip.
Smoooooooth! Jeez, how do you screw something like that up when it's a significant portion of your primary business model and you've had nearly an extra YEAR of delays to get it right?

El Chuxter
11-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Wow. I'm glad I'm only getting a PS2 shortly. :)

Rogue II
11-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Wasn't backwards compatibility originally one of the selling points they had over the XBox? I was already not buying to PS3 because of the price.

Anyway, Santa is bringing the Wii to our house.

2-1B
11-15-2006, 08:23 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why I was so bad at Tekken on Playstation 1 back in 96/97.

JediTricks
11-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Yeah, backwards compatibility was one of the selling points - all this great older software you could play on your new overpriced machine since all its launch titles are getting horrible reviews.

CNN just gave it a "wait to buy" review: http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/15/commentary/ps3_review/index.htm?cnn=yes

Rogue II
11-16-2006, 02:38 PM
G4TV reported yesterday that there is a rumor that there are only 130,000 PS3 units available for tomorrow's launch in the entire US. My wife said there are people in front of our local Target waiting for the PS3. Aparently she talked to one of them because she told me they got there around 3AM.

CNBC had a documentary on last night about the history of video games. I noticed one of the common factors in many of the failed consoles (NEOGEO, 3DO, Turbographics 16) was the high price tag, no matter how great the graphics are. I didn't know the 3DO was $700.

It's too bad. I liked the Playstation and PS2 (until it took a dump on me).

El Chuxter
11-16-2006, 03:11 PM
I have this crazy feeling that, stupid name or not, the Wii will be the most successful of these in the long run.

JediTricks
11-16-2006, 03:32 PM
I have a feeling the winner of the war will be the slimline PS2. :p Still in production, now just $120, and millions of awesome games that are now super cheap - MS isn't trying to do that with the xbox, they've stopped selling the xbox and are trying to make everybody get the 360 and it's kinda been slow going. Nintendo's Wii I really don't think will survive, I think the novelty of swinging your arms around will wear off quickly as people realize they suck at being a real tennis player or ninja which is why they go to video games.;)

Turbografx-16 failed not due to its pricepoint (which was I believe the same as the Sega Genesis which launched at the same time and the SNES which launched later) but due to hardware annoyances (not a true 16-bit system, 1 controller port) and a poor selection of software and just weak marketing.

Neo Geo was great, I actually still own one, the first system that really delivered arcade-quality play and graphics in-home (at that time), but the $600 pricetag was insane. Naturally Sony decided that'd be the business model they'd like to most closely follow with the PS3. :rolleyes:

Rocketboy
11-16-2006, 03:44 PM
I have this crazy feeling that, stupid name or not, the Wii will be the most successful of these in the long run.I've heard that many times the last few months.

Rogue II
11-16-2006, 04:07 PM
I think the Wii has a decent chance. On top of a new Zelda and Mario games, there are supposed to be 40-45 NES, SNES, and N64 games available for download. Isn't the Wii supposed to play Gamecube games as well? Now if they make an Animal Crossing game for Wii, look out. That game is addictive.

Sure, I'm a little nervious about buying a brand new console right off the bat, but I have a better feeling about this than I do the PS3 or 360. It seems like all the big 360 games are 1st person shooters (Halo 3, Gears of War).

My wife was going to let me buy a used Xbox, but I decided not to get it. Doesn't seem worth the trouble.

El Chuxter
11-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Yeah, I was going to buy a used PS2, but my brother beat me to it and got me one for my birthday. I don't have it in hand yet, but I've confirmed with my parents that this isn't one of those really cool imaginary presents he likes to tell people he bought, but that never materialize.

Rogue II
11-16-2006, 04:59 PM
Wasn't your birthday 2 months ago?

El Chuxter
11-16-2006, 05:06 PM
Yes, it was. My brother is nothing if not punctual. :)

JON9000
11-16-2006, 06:18 PM
I don't know if this is such a huge deal. I never play PS1 games on my PS2. They could always allow online access to play games in the catalogue on a server or something (I think- I know zilch about technology). They probably ought to do this anyway~

Slicker
11-16-2006, 06:29 PM
I'm with JON. I guarantee that most people that are buying a PS3 already have a PS2 and at LEAST a PS1. There are some people that don't have either but they are far outweighed by those that do.



I'm with the others in saying that Wii is gonna be the big winner.

Rogue II
11-16-2006, 11:48 PM
The Gran Turismo series is great, even back on PS1. If you have a PS2 and a HDTV, you can crank up the resolution on Grant Turismo 4. Enter the Next Gen...Gran Turismo HG...Listen to this bull plop.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153775

Gran Turismo HD: Two Versions, Tons Microtransactions
Famitsu reports a brand new model for Gran Turismo on PS3.
by Luke Smith, 09/20/2006
88 of 88 users recommend this story.
There's horse armor and then there's the kind of microtransactions that Famitsu is reporting (via: Beyond3D and the vitriolic NeoGAF). According to the Famitsu inteview with Kazunori Yamauchi, Gran Turismo HD will have two SKUs on the PS3. One of these games will ship with no cars, all of them will be purchased via microtransactions.

The other, Gran Turismo HD: Premium, will ship with two courses and 30 cars, with an additional 30 cars and an additional two courses online at a later date. The Premium game is being considered a prologue to the PS3's eventual Gran Turismo 5.

The microtransaction-focused game, Gran Turismo HD: Classic will be the online-focused entrant into the GT-series. In this game, players will (reportedly) start with no cars or courses available to them. Instead, they will need to purchase their stable of cars and courses to race on. The pricing reported in the Famitsu piece indicated that cars would cost between 50-100 yen ($0.43-$0.85) and courses between 200-500 yen ($1.71-$4.26). There are approximiately 750 cars and 50 tracks available for purchase in the GT: HD Classic. Let's do the math:
# 750 cars for $0.50-$1.00 (Sony will round-up, don't you think?)
# 50 tracks for $1.50-$4.50

A complete copy of the game will cost gamers somewhere between $426.50 and $975, and that's without factoring in whatever Sony decides to charge for the menus (since that's all you'll get with GT HD: Classic).

Does this sound a little familiar? It should. Phil Harrison alluded to a possible future like this one last June in OPM.

I'll give you an example; Kazunori [Yamauchi, producer of the Gran Turismo series] would kill me for this: Imagine Gran Turismo shipping on a disc with one car and one track. And then you can browse, online, a dynamic circuit of vehicles that's growing every day because either the car manufacturers are adding new vehicles or we're adding new vehicles. And you can see a specific-type car that's being called up and say, "I think I'll play with that one. Let me download and play it." Maybe the business model allows you to play it for a day; maybe the business model allows you to own it forever. But that content is now yours on your hard drive. Or [maybe you could download] new tracks, new music, whole games.

Now, is it possible that the game will be a full-priced title with a built-in download system that allows users to download cars and tracks equal to the number of the game's retail price? We hope the model ends up similar to this. However, right now, details are extremely sparse, and Sony has to have an answer to these questions -- most of the people who can answer are over in Tokyo, we'll update if we hear back.

Welcome to next-gen.

So, basically it is $400-$1000 to play the whole game.

JediTricks
11-17-2006, 03:29 PM
Yeesh, that's laughable, a great way to end a franchise.

El Chuxter
11-17-2006, 03:59 PM
Jesus H Christ! Even with the hefty PS3 pricetag, that's more than the system itself! :eek:

jjreason
11-17-2006, 06:31 PM
Hmmmm..... I'm skeptical about that report.... I wonder if someone's got the info wrong?

Apparently there were only 10,000 units available in Canada this morning, when we were expecting 100,000. That's a LOT of people who preordered bent right out of shape tonight.

CaptainSolo1138
11-17-2006, 08:32 PM
I'm with the others in saying that Wii is gonna be the big winner.Man, that sentence is only a couple vowels away from being obscene.

General_Grievous
11-17-2006, 09:25 PM
My friend told me some jackass is selling a PS3 on ebay for $200,000. And people have been mugged because of the PS3 shortages. All for a subpar console. Well, it was fun while it lasted, Sony, but I think we're looking at Microsoft and Nintendo territory ahead.

mabudonicus
11-18-2006, 10:20 AM
I still like JTs notion that PS2 will ironically be the "big winner" of this round

That Gran Turismo BS is nutty, too, I sure as hell hope that isn't "the way of the future", or us "old timers" are gonna be able to say "Back when I was young, you could go and buy a WHOLE GAME, all in one package" and kids will think we're nuts :D

And something I heven't seen in this thread but heard on the news last night- apparently, SONY is charging LESS for the PS3 than it costs to produce, and is staking profits on the sales of licenses and crap like that- if this systembombs it could hurt them pretty badly (IF the cost/price thing is true, too)
:beard:Isobaws&

General_Grievous
11-18-2006, 12:31 PM
I had to see it to believe it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-PlayStation-3-Game-console_W0QQitemZ150060747160QQihZ005QQcategoryZ62 054QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Playstation-3-PS3-Console-60gb-NIB-IN-HAND_W0QQitemZ280050361784QQihZ018QQcategoryZ62054 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLAYSTATION-3-SONY-PS3-VIDEO-GAME-CONSOLE-NIB_W0QQitemZ250051140475QQihZ015QQcategoryZ62054Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


And someone got shot over this stupid hunk of hardware:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/16037648.htm

And I thought the 360 had supply and demand problems last year....holy crap!

Slicker
11-18-2006, 01:00 PM
I love this quote from the first auction:


Why care about things that matter such as the Iraq War or child poverty? I have an awesome video game system.

JediTricks
11-18-2006, 01:56 PM
Sony is so stupid, many consoles are sold at a loss to make back money from software and 3rd-party-licensing, if you are losing money at $500-$600 a pop, your machine is just too damned expensive and you're doing something wrong. Idiots.

Then again, Nintendo is staking everything on people wanting to play a machine that requires you stand exactly in front of the tv and wave your arms around to play it, and isn't even a significant hardware upgrade from their previous console (CPU is an increase of just 63% while GPU is only 50%, every other console generations have at least 200% increases in both).

General_Grievous
11-18-2006, 06:47 PM
I am so glad I own an Xbox 360 right now. Plus, I'm keepin' it real with the good ole PS2. Just wanted to get that off my chest. Did anyone here actually buy a PS3?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-19-2006, 01:43 PM
I'm not getting any of this generation of consoles. I already have an Xbox and Gamecube, though I rarely play the former and I haven't touched the latter in nearly two years. If the Wii is indeed backwards-compatible with the Gamecube, I might just sell it and buy the Wii since it's so cheap. I'm also thinking of getting a PS2 for the insane awesomeness of Guitar Hero.

Slicker
11-19-2006, 01:51 PM
II'm also thinking of getting a PS2 for the insane awesomeness of Guitar Hero.That game is worth more than it's weight in gold.

Val Da Car
11-19-2006, 03:42 PM
did anyone notice the font for the PS3 is just like the SpiderMan 3 movie font?

Coincidence....maybe (or not).

JediTricks
11-20-2006, 05:59 PM
Yeah, I pointed that out the day they revealed it, it's laughable. I like the old font for the PS2, very futuristicky.

I was at Target on Saturday and they had a PS3 playable for demo, but the damn thing locked up on the guy who was playing it at the time and there was no reset button - I wonder if this is an isolated incident, the Xbox 360 demos last year locking up constantly left a negative public image on that machine, if Sony screws that up too... we'll be wondering who will be buying the Sony corporation. :p

Lord Malakite
11-20-2006, 07:19 PM
did anyone notice the font for the PS3 is just like the SpiderMan 3 movie font?

Coincidence....maybe (or not).
That isn't the only thing Sony pulled a "Spider-Man" with. Just as the PSP included the movie Spider-Man to push Sony's UMD format, Sony did the same thing for the Playstation 3 to push the blu-ray format. The movie this time though is Taldega Nights The Legend of Ricky Bobby.:sad:

I guess thats the new thing. Xbox 360's HD-DVD add-on includes the new King Kong movie with it.

preacher
11-20-2006, 07:22 PM
Gotta disagree with you on your critique of the Wii. While I agree that the specs are far from either of the XBOX 360 or PS3 specs. But Nintendo doesn't care. I think Nintendo is going to surprise everyone. I've been very unhappy with the quality of games out their. The flagship games for gates and sony respectively are HALO, and Final Fantasy. They are good games, but its the same ol' same ol'. I put together my own computer so that it would be gauranteed to work for Doom3. And that game sucked. GTA is just morally disgusting - unbelievable that there is a game like that out there. At least Doom you were killing zombies.

Things like Guitar Hero, and Karaoke revolution are just good fun. You don't have to invest a lot of time in it and I have never, I mean never seen either of these titles in the used or discounted game section in any retail outlet or ebgames type store.

The Wii is a trip. I don't have one. But I tried both the Wii and the PS3 in the store and found myself amazed with the new control scheme. Don't knock until you try it. PS3 has amazing graphics, but that is it. I mean they didn't even change the controller. Lame.

Banthaholic
11-20-2006, 10:33 PM
As someone who has the Wii I have to say the thing is outragious. I've always been a Zelda fanatic, though I have barely even touched that game so far. I'm been just amazed with the play control of the others. The free inclusion game Nintendo Sports is pretty dang addicting. I honestly never though bowling and tennis would be the games I want to play, but it's more than just staning in front of the screen and waving your arms, it's actually playing a game. There goes the ole blaming your childs obesity on video games, heck I was sore as could be this morning after a game of gaming.

Specs and cpu speed is all nice, but after a point the graphics and speed of it all don't seem to impress me all that much. Nintendo 8 bit was revolutionary in how it changed ataris block into many blocks to form real images. Nintendo 64 and PS1 were revolutionary in how they made more of a real image, improved game control, and speed. PS2 x-box and Gamecube to me just extended the controllers options (which incidentally alienated casual gamers) and had better speed and graphics but their was nothing Earth shattering or revolutionary about any of them. X-box 360 has been around a year, and while some of the games are nice nothing has changed the gaming experience the way 8-bit Nintendo did to Atari or 64 & PS1 did. So the Wii is a welcome change.

I really think the system is welcoming to new players better. Were other consoles mega controllers intimidate new users from trying because of confusion of all the buttons, what does what and so on. Tonight I had the inlaws over they've both never played any video games and caught on to the Wii within minutes and were leaving considering buying one for the grandkids. They loved it. Point being Nintendo's marketing strategy of not just catering to what is a competitive market niche and to branch out to untouched and possibly casual gamers could work a bit.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-20-2006, 10:54 PM
Yeah, I pointed that out the day they revealed it, it's laughable. I like the old font for the PS2, very futuristicky.

I was at Target on Saturday and they had a PS3 playable for demo, but the damn thing locked up on the guy who was playing it at the time and there was no reset button - I wonder if this is an isolated incident, the Xbox 360 demos last year locking up constantly left a negative public image on that machine, if Sony screws that up too... we'll be wondering who will be buying the Sony corporation. :p

actually, not an isolated incident: my friends back at my old wal-mart said the demo froze within 30 minutes of installation for the PS3. Gotta work out the glitches, Sony! It makes for better public perception!! :thumbsup:

figrin bran
11-21-2006, 12:39 AM
There's a Taco Bell out here in California that is offering a free lifetime's worth of tacos from them if you give them your PS3. darn, i wish i had one to turn in.

Lord Malakite
11-21-2006, 12:48 AM
The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/20/arts/20game.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1164085200&en=0cd61faaf25e74ab&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin) doesn't seem all that impressed with the Playstation 3 either.

chrisc
11-21-2006, 02:50 PM
My buddy had a PS3 reserved. I was with him when he turned it on for the first time. I died when he turned it on because it froze up immediatley! Go Figure! He has got it to work once in the few days he has had it.

JediTricks
11-21-2006, 06:55 PM
I saw the PS3 in action last night, and I have to say it's a major step up graphically from the PS2, I didn't expect that I'd be impressed with it. However, it was on an HD monitor and I have heard neither the PS3 nor 360 look anywhere near as good on a standard-def monitor which sucks because there IS room for improvement there already.

As for the Wii, I truly don't think the gimmick is going to hold up in the long run, I think the gimmick will get impulse buys and then it'll collect dust and get a low reputation (not coincidentally, the Gamecube felt somewhat the same way when it came out).

El Chuxter
11-22-2006, 12:12 PM
Stop dissing the Playstation 3! It might be able to cure cancer! (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_hi_te/playstation_research)

JediTricks
11-22-2006, 02:33 PM
"Nice try, Lao Che!" - Indiana Jones

plasticfetish
11-23-2006, 04:53 AM
As for the Wii, I truly don't think the gimmick is going to hold up in the long run, I think the gimmick will get impulse buys and then it'll collect dust and get a low reputation (not coincidentally, the Gamecube felt somewhat the same way when it came out).Mmmm... I don't think you're opinion of the Gamecube is fair, and I don't think the Wii "gimmick" is what's going to decide its popularity. I don't think people are really buying it for the controller at this point anyway. They're looking at the three new systems, and then deciding what's going to be the most fun for the money.

Right now, I'm not thrilled with the game offerings from any of the systems. They've all managed to launch with a p*** poor offering, which is nothing new, but given the cost and hype, I'd expect at least a few decent titles.

I've seen and played each system... PS3 looks amazing, but I don't own an HD TV, so that's a no go in my house. Wii is very fun to play, but with important titles like Mario Galaxy, Animal Crossing and RE5 (that's going to xbox anyway isn't it?) so far off, I'm buying one, but not right now. (Probably with the tax return dollars like we always do.) Xbox 360 seems the best deal for your dollars at this point... but if I think about it, there aren't any 360 games that I really care about (yet.)

The best thing about new system launches, is the way all of those old system games go on clearance or dip in price. That's enough to keep me busy until the next KOTOR or RE game comes out.

Bobajames
11-23-2006, 09:51 AM
actually, not an isolated incident: my friends back at my old wal-mart said the demo froze within 30 minutes of installation for the PS3. Gotta work out the glitches, Sony! It makes for better public perception!! :thumbsup:


my roommate works at target and their demo system apparently freezes about twice an hour. lololololol

we of course waited all night to get the wii and haven't had a free moment not occupied by it.

i think my mii is a little worn out :thumbsup:

scruffziller
11-23-2006, 05:54 PM
Not bothering with any of these next gen consoles either. I am glad the new Zelda is also out for GC so I will get that. Other than that, I am addicted to World of Warcraft. Can't wait till the new expansion!!!!!

JediTricks
11-25-2006, 08:50 PM
I dunno PF, most of the folks I know feel that way about Gamecube.

As for fun, you're right, none of them have decent launch titles - I was told that the PS3's launch titles all have reviews of like 6.4, or $100 a review point. :p If folks want fun, all the old systems seem like the way to go this season - PS2 especially because they're still offering it and have lots of titles that aren't just kids' stuff. I suspect most folks buying the newest systems are buying them because they're NEW, I saw a woman with a PS3 yesterday standing in front of Best Buy waiting for her ride, she seemed remarkably blaze about it, like she bought it for someone else... anyway, what says "new" more than the PS3? Certainly not the Wii with its 50% GPU and 63% CPU upgrades.

You do make a good point about HDTVs, I don't have one so the PS3 won't do me any favors (which sucks, I still don't understand why that is with it and the 360), but I suspect most buyers don't even know about that so the Wii probably won't win based on that alone even if it should.


I was at a couple Targets yesterday, their PS3 demos were totally offline, perhaps on purpose due to the crowd but maybe not. Still... there are no Wii demos. :p That's got to be the biggest mistake Nintendo could have made right now, if they're in this deep and they have 4 times as many consoles as Sony has PS3s, and the big sell feature is their unique gameplay, they should have demos so folks can actually TRY that unique gameplay.

General_Grievous
11-26-2006, 05:57 PM
My EB Games has a Wii demo, JT. Only problem is, the remote's not connected to the kiosk, so in order to use it, you have to give your driver's license to an employee, and they will give you the remote. Stupid concept. Probably only temporary until they wire the remote to the console. The only demo they had for it was Excitetruck, and it wasn't that great.

Rogue II
11-26-2006, 06:54 PM
I finally saw the PS3 in action this weekend. The store had an NBA game demo in. I was pretty impressed.

Have you ever really played the Gamecube, JT? You keep bringing up the specs of it and the Wii, but have you seen how they work? I have both the PS2 and Gamecube. Gamecube load times are a fraction of the PS2's and the games aren't as glitchy. Nothing against the PS2, but I've fallen asleep waiting for games to load. The target audience for the Wii probably aren't all about the graphics. The hardcore gamers who want the high-end graphics probably all have their PS3s and Xbox 360s.

I don't get too picky about graphics, but the preview videos seen I've seen for the Wii look good.

Dar' Argol
11-26-2006, 07:44 PM
I had a chance to see the PS3 in action and I have to say, I'm very impressed. I can't remember what off road racing game it was but it looked AWESOME!!! It looked like you could reach up and grab the car right out of the screen. But the price is still the downside. Having the PS3 Wi-Fi compatible is a nice touch. I got a spec book the other day on it in the mail, it explained a bit. Unfortunately unless I hit the lotto I'm gonna wait till the price drops.

2-1B
11-26-2006, 08:44 PM
Is Excitetruck related to Excitebike by any chance ? (yes that's a serious question, I'm not trying to be funny)

JediTricks
11-27-2006, 07:37 PM
My EB Games has a Wii demo, JT. Only problem is, the remote's not connected to the kiosk, so in order to use it, you have to give your driver's license to an employee, and they will give you the remote. Stupid concept. Probably only temporary until they wire the remote to the console. The only demo they had for it was Excitetruck, and it wasn't that great.Haw! That's a pretty funny way of doing it, not a lot of folks are going to bother, and I'd love to see them try to keep your license if the wiimote slips out of your hand and breaks somehting.


Have you ever really played the Gamecube, JT? You keep bringing up the specs of it and the Wii, but have you seen how they work? I have both the PS2 and Gamecube. Gamecube load times are a fraction of the PS2's and the games aren't as glitchy. Nothing against the PS2, but I've fallen asleep waiting for games to load. I have played the GC a bunch at TRU and at a friend's place a couple of times. Of course the games load faster, they're smaller discs with less data to load, and the machine is a year and a half newer than the PS2. The CPU on the GC is faster than the PS2, but the GPU is slower (an odd combination). I didn't care for the GC's titles though and loathe that controller, so I didn't bother even when it dropped to $100 - I used to get all the consoles (at one point I had an NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari Lynx handheld, Game Boy, Turbografx-16, TurboExpress handheld, and Neo Geo) but around the N64's release I got more picky.


The target audience for the Wii probably aren't all about the graphics. The hardcore gamers who want the high-end graphics probably all have their PS3s and Xbox 360s.Perhaps, but here's the thing, CPU and GPU speeds are quantifiable measurements of the machine, and they can translate into quality of gameplay as well. Also, Nintendo is trying to pass this machine off as "next-gen", a competitor to the 360 and the PS3, but the second you walk into a Target or any store with all 3 machines on display, there's no question whatsoever that the Wii looks sorely lacking, plus if it doesn't hook the audience on the gimmicky controls then the machine is also competing with the Gamecube and slimline PS2 - both of which look about the same, have tons of proven games out now for $20, and the consoles cost less than half what the Wii does - so the only thing the Wii really has to grab the target audience is its gimmicky control systems. And that gimmick isn't exceptionally new, it's been tried before with peripherals for various consoles all the way back to the NES (not just the power glove, but there was a big ring as well, and a mat for playing one of the sports games, a bunch of other stuff like this; plus the PS2 has the failure that is Eyetoy), they never hold the audience's attention long enough to make longterm sales.


I don't get too picky about graphics, but the preview videos seen I've seen for the Wii look good.The ones I've seen look a little on the cheap side, Wii Sports is downright pathetic (I mean, granted it's a pack-in title but it is supposed to be showing off the system too, right?).


I had a chance to see the PS3 in action and I have to say, I'm very impressed. I can't remember what off road racing game it was but it looked AWESOME!!! It looked like you could reach up and grab the car right out of the screen. But the price is still the downside. Having the PS3 Wi-Fi compatible is a nice touch. I got a spec book the other day on it in the mail, it explained a bit. Unfortunately unless I hit the lotto I'm gonna wait till the price drops.Yeah, I saw that game too and it definitely caught my attention, I was going to write off the PS3 completely due to price but now I'm thinking about the future when it does drop in price. The same can't be said of the 360, none of its demos have impressed me this much which is odd because it's on the same level as PS3.


BTW, Excite Truck is indeed the 3rd game in the Excitebike series, I looked it up to be sure.

Lord Malakite
11-28-2006, 02:45 AM
Having the PS3 Wi-Fi compatible is a nice touch.
Unfortunately that statement isn't entirely true for all PS3s. Only the the 60 GB "silver striped" PS3 has Wi-Fi compatibility built in. The 20 GB "non-striped" PS3 does not.


Haw! That's a pretty funny way of doing it, not a lot of folks are going to bother, and I'd love to see them try to keep your license if the wiimote slips out of your hand and breaks somehting.

Nintendo included a wrist strap to prevent that sort of problem JT. :D


The ones I've seen look a little on the cheap side, Wii Sports is downright pathetic (I mean, granted it's a pack-in title but it is supposed to be showing off the system too, right?).

The main purpose of Wii Sports is to show off the remote's capabilities (act as a tutorial) than anything else.

JediTricks
11-28-2006, 04:35 PM
Nintendo included a wrist strap to prevent that sort of problem JT. :DI know, I've read about those straps failing in a few articles already though.


The main purpose of Wii Sports is to show off the remote's capabilities (act as a tutorial) than anything else.It still looks like butt.

Dar' Argol
11-28-2006, 06:58 PM
Unfortunately that statement isn't entirely true for all PS3s. Only the the 60 GB "silver striped" PS3 has Wi-Fi compatibility built in. The 20 GB "non-striped" PS3 does not.

Well the way I am thinking is if you are going to plop down THAT much money for the system, wha's another $100 to get everything???



I'm not really happy with the deletion of the Dual Shock in favor of the Sixaxis controller but I know its because of the lawsuit. I just hope that feature can be turned off. I can see it being a problem with some games. I had a chance to pick up one of these new controllers and I have to say the weight difference is enough to throw you off for a bit. Plus without the dual shock you kinda feel disconnected from the game . . . I mean firing a HUGH gun with no feeling of it in your hands???

The problem I see with the Wii is that the gimmicks going to wear off eventually. That's going to be a lot of movement to to play the game. How are they going to do fighting games. Did they not learn anything from the Power Glove??? Or the Virtual Boy??? Or Robbie the Robot?? I really hope this does not go that way.

JEDIpartner
11-29-2006, 10:55 AM
It seems like the PS3 rollout was a bit premature. Not to mention that Blu-Ray sales aren't even hitting close to the numbers (or a reasonable comparitive percentage of the numbers) that standard DVDs did when they bowed. This has put up a huge red flag for the industry as the Blu-Ray format is likely to go the way of the DiVX and other stupid formats that people just couldn't be bothered with.

The Wii seems like it has a lot more going for it at the moment. At least you don't just have to sit on your fat duffs to play the games... AND it will play all Nintendo games going all the way back to the original NES! :)

El Chuxter
11-29-2006, 11:04 AM
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are both doomed.

1) Joe Schmoe doesn't have the hardware necessary to take advantage of the benefits.

2) Most average folks wouldn't notice a difference anyway.

3) The people who just embraced DVD a couple of years ago (read: 99% of users) are probably not enthusiastic about re-investing in a new technology.

4) Most people who otherwise would otherwise jump on the new technology will wait until there's a clear winner. By which time, both will likely have already died.

darthvyn
11-29-2006, 11:40 AM
Haw! That's a pretty funny way of doing it, not a lot of folks are going to bother, and I'd love to see them try to keep your license if the wiimote slips out of your hand and breaks somehting.

i think it's more a wiimote theft-prevention strategy than a breakage loss-prevention strategy. still, it's a concern - they need to get those retractable tethers to connect the controller to the demo case, or else they're not going to get a lot of takers.


Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are both doomed.

false. (and i think i know something about who is DOOMED! or not!)


3) The people who just embraced DVD a couple of years ago (read: 99% of users) are probably not enthusiastic about re-investing in a new technology.

i doubt they'd re-invest (read: re-buy all the movies they own) but it's perfectly justifiable that they would continue their movie buying practice with HD instead of regular.


4) Most people who otherwise would otherwise jump on the new technology will wait until there's a clear winner. By which time, both will likely have already died.

by this logic, we wouldn't have VHS, CD-Rw, memory cards, or the future standard dvd recordable, DVD-Rw. sony just pumps money into retarded proprietary media and chokes on it every time. this doesn't mean that the competitor chokes, as well. they end up thriving. one has to win, and history shows that it will be HD DVD (although i think they need to shorten that to just HDVD... it's just too much of a tongue stumble otherwise. but it's still HELLA better than "blu-ray" - what the hell does that mean? i know what it "means" but it's not really descriptive of the product. same as UMD - how universal is it if it only plays on sony products??? this is a long parenthetical!)

darthvyn
11-29-2006, 11:48 AM
delete me... mistaken double-post...

El Chuxter
11-29-2006, 11:50 AM
delete me... mistaken double-post...

Delete you or your post? 'Cause, believe you me, you can be deleted.

:p

darthvyn
11-29-2006, 02:09 PM
delete??? ME????? i'm leaving forever!

Lord Malakite
11-29-2006, 06:48 PM
I know, I've read about those straps failing in a few articles already though.
I've read about a few of those myself. Those people must be whipping their remotes pretty hard to cause them to fly out of their hands and break the strap.:p In all seriousness though, it seems like this is something Nintendo could easily improve upon for future shipments and replace relatively easily for current owners when compared to other potential problems (such as what Sony is dealing with in terms of their PS3s freezing for example).


Well the way I am thinking is if you are going to plop down THAT much money for the system, wha's another $100 to get everything???
Except even with the extra $100 plopped down for the better PS3 bundle you still aren't getting everything. The special coponent cables to hook the PS3 to an HDTV (HDTV hook-up being one of Sony's biggest advertised selling points to get a PS3 over other consoles in the first place) aren't even included. You have to buy those seperately at an extra charge.


The problem I see with the Wii is that the gimmicks going to wear off eventually. That's going to be a lot of movement to to play the game. How are they going to do fighting games. Did they not learn anything from the Power Glove??? Or the Virtual Boy??? Or Robbie the Robot?? I really hope this does not go that way.
Contrary to what the commercials and other demonstrations may have shown, the movements don't have to be as extremely projected as doing the said activity in real life. Little turns or flicks of the wrists is all that is needed.

Fighting games (if they choose not to come up with some new remote/nunchuk control scheme) can be done with a traditional controller. They have two potential options they can use. The first is to use a standard or wavebird GCN controller. Wii supports both of those due to the built-in backwards compatibility with GCN games. The second option is the retro controller attachment for the remtote. It resembles the SNES controller with two duelshock looking analog sticks added to the bottom of the controller. This attachment is primarily meant for Virtual console games, but I can see it being used for traditional fighters as well.

As for those other things you mentioned.:rolleyes: Nintendo was well aware ROB was a gimmick (marketing ploy) when it was released. Coming off the "Great Video Game Crash of 1984" Nintendo used ROB as as means to convince weary shop owners to carry the NES because it wasn't really a "video game console" but rather a "home entertainment device" like surround sound systems, VCRs, DVD players, etc. and that ROB just happened to be the sophisticated interactive companion to home system entertainment.

Virtual Boy (Game Boy and Metroid series creator Gumpei Yokei's final contribution to Nintendo before leaving to create the Wonder Swan at his newly formed company and passing away in a tragic car accident) was known to be dead by Nintendo before it was even released due to some test marketing. Having already spent a small fortune backing Yokei's work with the promise of another Game Boy success though Nintendo had no choice but to either bite the bullet or try to recoup some of their losses. They went with the latter option. The failure of the Virtual Boy also led to the popular (though never proven) belief that Nintendo had fired Yokei.

And as for the Power Glove, that wasn't Nintendo's doing despite being used for the NES. The Power Glove was a third party accessory created and marketed by Mattel.

darthvyn
11-29-2006, 08:14 PM
Fighting games (if they choose not to come up with some new remote/nunchuk control scheme) can be done with a traditional controller. They have two potential options they can use. The first is to use a standard or wavebird GCN controller. Wii supports both of those due to the built-in backwards compatibility with GCN games. The second option is the retro controller attachment for the remtote. It resembles the SNES controller with two duelshock looking analog sticks added to the bottom of the controller. This attachment is primarily meant for Virtual console games, but I can see it being used for traditional fighters as well.

wow... i had no idea that 'cube controllers would work with the wii, as well as that retro controller... latching onto the retro craze (a la atari joysticks with built-in games, etc..) was a REALLY smart move. i may have to pick one up...

2-1B
11-29-2006, 10:24 PM
I just saw a Wii advertisement on TV for the first time and that is one absurd looking system !

JEDIpartner
11-30-2006, 09:17 AM
Now all the out-of-shape gamers are complaining about being out of breath and sweaty!!! Hahahahahaha!!! Get off your arses and take some exercise people!!!!

http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=494455&page=0 (http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=494455&page=0)


WSJ: First cases of "Wii Elbow" reported
Aerobic activity with motion-sensing controller causing aches, pains; Nintendo urges exercise to counteract.
By Tim Surette
12:29 pm PST November 27, 2006

Nintendo is seeking to lead the charge against the notion that all gamers are unfit couch potatoes. Nationwide sellouts of the Wii indicate that gamers are supporting that notion, and many have been very vocal about the system's motion-sensitive controller as being a revolution in gaming. The problem is that it appears that after the first week of the console's release, many of those gamers are running out of breath.

The Wall Street Journal says that "Wii elbow" and other Wii-related physical issues may be the first widespread gaming-related injuries since "Nintendo thumb," the condition that ran rampant following the introduction of the NES in the '80s and the SNES in the '90s.

The newspaper spoke with several new Wii owners who were experiencing aches and pains from repeated use of the console. A 12-year-old from Kentucky reported numbness in her right arm after mimicking the motions of bowling and boxing in Wii Sports; a computer programmer in Minnesota, who admits to being "not very active," complained of sore shoulders; and a man in Indiana says he was "soaking wet with sweat, head to toe" after Wii Boxing.

Nintendo vice president of marketing Perrin Kaplan put it plainly. "[The Wii] was not meant to be a Jenny Craig supplement," she told the WSJ. "If people are finding themselves sore, they may need to exercise more."

darthvyn
11-30-2006, 10:55 AM
The Wall Street Journal says that "Wii elbow" and other Wii-related physical issues may be the first widespread gaming-related injuries since "Nintendo thumb," the condition that ran rampant following the introduction of the NES in the '80s and the SNES in the '90s.

well, if physical pain is any indication, they're as pioneering now as ever!


Nintendo vice president of marketing Perrin Kaplan put it plainly. "[The Wii] was not meant to be a Jenny Craig supplement," she told the WSJ. "If people are finding themselves sore, they may need to exercise more."

AWESOME! that's probably the best press release bite i've ever read!

JEDIpartner
11-30-2006, 11:43 AM
AWESOME! that's probably the best press release bite i've ever read!

I know... then again, I think more Americans need to stop being such lazy heifers and start taking a bit more exercise. So, really, it's only funny 'cos it's true. :thumbsup:

Lord Malakite
11-30-2006, 05:56 PM
well, if physical pain is any indication, they're as pioneering now as ever!
Indeed. I find it funny how every previous Nintendo console mentioned as causing injury also came out number one in the end for that particular generation. :D I wonder if that is a good sign for the Wii. :lipsrsealed:

JediTricks
11-30-2006, 06:35 PM
I've read about a few of those myself. Those people must be whipping their remotes pretty hard to cause them to fly out of their hands and break the strap.:p In all seriousness though, it seems like this is something Nintendo could easily improve upon for future shipments and replace relatively easily for current owners when compared to other potential problemsOne of the articles I read said it slipped out of the user's hand, off their wrist, slammed into the wall and THAT is what broke the strap. :D


Except even with the extra $100 plopped down for the better PS3 bundle you still aren't getting everything. The special coponent cables to hook the PS3 to an HDTV (HDTV hook-up being one of Sony's biggest advertised selling points to get a PS3 over other consoles in the first place) aren't even included. You have to buy those seperately at an extra charge.True, but the Wii doesn't have HD support at all so it's an unfair comparison. Plus, I just read the Wii's component output cables are also a separate purchase.


Contrary to what the commercials and other demonstrations may have shown, the movements don't have to be as extremely projected as doing the said activity in real life. Little turns or flicks of the wrists is all that is needed.So Nintendo is advertising the product wrong, smooth move! :p Isn't that kind of movement exactly what causes carpal tunnel syndrome and repetitive stress injuries?


As for those other things you mentioned.:rolleyes: Nintendo was well aware ROB was a gimmick (marketing ploy) when it was released. Coming off the "Great Video Game Crash of 1984" Nintendo used ROB as as means to convince weary shop owners to carry the NES because it wasn't really a "video game console" but rather a "home entertainment device" like surround sound systems, VCRs, DVD players, etc. and that ROB just happened to be the sophisticated interactive companion to home system entertainment.That's what the lightgun accessory was for as well, and why Nintendo dropped support soon after 1985. However, are we totally sure the Wii gimmick isn't a similar situation, especially coming from a company who has already pulled the stunt once?




Nintendo vice president of marketing Perrin Kaplan put it plainly. "[The Wii] was not meant to be a Jenny Craig supplement," she told the WSJ. "If people are finding themselves sore, they may need to exercise more."So in other words, "this machine will tax your body, and even though it's required from the nature of the gameplay, we're not going to take any responsibility in ensuring you don't injure yourself with improper movements that are contraindicated by safe exercise behavior." I foresee some lawsuits brewing from this, as well as some hyperextended joints.

darthvyn
11-30-2006, 06:46 PM
I know... then again, I think more Americans need to stop being such lazy heifers and start taking a bit more exercise. So, really, it's only funny 'cos it's true. :thumbsup:

oh i know, that's why i find it so great...


So in other words, "this machine will tax your body, and even though it's required from the nature of the gameplay, we're not going to take any responsibility in ensuring you don't injure yourself with improper movements that are contraindicated by safe exercise behavior." I foresee some lawsuits brewing from this, as well as some hyperextended joints.

i see some frivolous lawsuits that no judge in their right mind would uphold. in fact if i was a judge in such a case, i would sentence the plaintiff to sit-ups. i think a video-game system that makes you get up and move is just what the doctor ordered, in a nation where other such video-game systems are the reason why childhood obesity is running rampant... in addition to poor dietary habits garnered from parents, that is...

JediTricks
11-30-2006, 07:48 PM
If they don't take care to properly inform and control the motions required to use it, Nintendo will be liable for damages due to repetetive stress injuries, asking an untrained person to thwack away at the screen without warning them that flinging their arms back and forth wildly could cause serious injury will result in lawsuits that hold up, I suspect.

Lord Malakite
11-30-2006, 08:02 PM
True, but the Wii doesn't have HD support at all so it's an unfair comparison.
Who ever said I was directly comparing the PS3 to the Wii with the following statement? :) I was simply pointing out that Sony made a big deal about HDTV graphics being "the big thing" that should be standard in every home now and not in the future. If Sony truly felt that strongly about their claim I would think at the very least they would the courtesy to put their money where their mouths are and include the HDTV coponent cables in the PS3 bundle itself, not make it a seperate purchase. That be almost like Nintendo spouting about their controller being the next innovative thing in gaming as they have been doing and then not even including at least one controller in the Wii bundle.


So Nintendo is advertising the product wrong, smooth move! :p Isn't that kind of movement exactly what causes carpal tunnel syndrome and repetitive stress injuries?
No more wrong than the screaming babies, eggs smacking walls to hatch ravens, and exploding puzzle cubes Sony has done with the PS3. Its the nature of advertising to exagerate.:p At least with the Wii commercials you have some general idea as a common spectator as to the message being conveyed. If I didn't have the knowledge of the multi-cell processor, the tilt abilities of the Sixaxis controller, or the hi-def capabilities of the PS3 though I'd have no idea what the hell Sony was trying to convey. I'd be left there going "WTF." Hell, even with that knowledge I'm left there going "WTF." :D

You are probably right about the carpal tunnel and repetitive stress thing, but that is almost true with any tech device in this day and age if one isn't careful.


That's what the lightgun accessory was for as well, and why Nintendo dropped support soon after 1985. However, are we totally sure the Wii gimmick isn't a similar situation, especially coming from a company who has already pulled the stunt once?

While I can't comment on how invested they are to continue using the motion capabilities on future consoles beyond the Wii JT I can tell you right now Nintendo can't simply drop it for the Wii. With ROB and the Zapper they were just mere extras in terms of accessories. Neither were really needed (technology wise anyway) for the success of the NES. ROB's importance you could argue with politics/buisness for getting Nintendo's foot in the "console marketing" door, but that seems like an unfair comparison to the Wii situation as the NES's actual internal capabilities didn't hinge on ROB's abilities to make it a success. This time its a bit different. The Wii console itself was designed entirely around this unique controller interface. There is just too much invested in the Wii console itself with this controller setup for Nintendo to simply drop it as just a gimmick and realisticly expect to be around for the next round of home consoles.

JediTricks
11-30-2006, 08:32 PM
Who ever said I was directly comparing the PS3 to the Wii with the following statement? :) I was simply pointing out that Sony made a big deal about HDTV graphics being "the big thing" that should be standard in every home now and not in the future.In that post, you spent a lot of time commenting on and defending the Wii, so I just decided to head it off at the pass and build some connective tissue since the first and third replies in the post were both about the Wii anyway.


If Sony truly felt that strongly about their claim I would think at the very least they would the courtesy to put their money where their mouths are and include the HDTV coponent cables in the PS3 bundle itself, not make it a seperate purchase. That be almost like Nintendo spouting about their controller being the next innovative thing in gaming as they have been doing and then not even including at least one controller in the Wii bundle.Sure enough, but on the Nintendo side, consider that the name "Wii" is supposed to conjure up folks playing together, yet the Wii ships with just 1 Wiimote and Nunchuck, and a second set will cost you another $60.


No more wrong than the screaming babies, eggs smacking walls to hatch ravens, and exploding puzzle cubes Sony has done with the PS3. Its the nature of advertising to exagerate.:p At least with the Wii commercials you have some general idea as a common spectator as to the message being conveyed.Sony's ads are about the ethos of the machine. Nintendo's are about the goofy gimmicky play and everybody there is apparently playing WRONG.


You are probably right about the carpal tunnel and repetitive stress thing, but that is almost true with any tech device in this day and age if one isn't careful.The difference is that the Wii controls require a ton of wrist and/or elbow movement, where classic controls require only finger movement, and wrist/elbow movement can be far more painful and detrimental to a person's ability to use their arms which in turn can affect their ability to make an income.


While I can't comment on how invested they are to continue using the motion capabilities on future consoles beyond the Wii JT I can tell you right now Nintendo can't simply drop it for the Wii.If they find that people did indeed buy the Wii and are hungering to play more titles on it, yet aren't really enthused about using the Wiimote, they'll dump it and treat the Wii like the Gamecube. But you are right, for now they have tied themselves closely to the gimmick and even if they wanted to, could not cut it out cold-turkey, only weened off of it.


ROB's importance you could argue with politics/buisness for getting Nintendo's foot in the "console marketing" door, but that seems like an unfair comparison to the Wii situation as the NES's actual internal capabilities didn't hinge on ROB's abilities to make it a success.The only difference is that then Nintendo's main market product were arcade titles, now the Wii is their bread and butter (I don't believe any handheld, even the DS, could be anywhere near the significance that consoles and arcade have been for Nintendo because ultimately handhelds remain a niche product). The NES drop-loading system was the gimmick that carried the machine beyond the Atari days just as the wacky wild Wiimote is the gimmick of their latest console, granted this gimmick is more crucial to gameplay but it's still in question whether it's any more necessary, especially when you realize the NES's chief failing was that stupid drop-down front-loader.


This time its a bit different. The Wii console itself was designed entirely around this unique controller interface. There is just too much invested in the Wii console itself with this controller setup for Nintendo to simply drop it as just a gimmick and realisticly expect to be around for the next round of home consoles.I dunno, I look at what Nintendo's press releases are saying, and it seems like they're trying to hedge their bets on this, I notice they talk about a lot of games DON'T need the Wiimote play style and could be played normally with other controllers, and I hear the launch titles don't even make great use of the gimmick except for Wii Sports and Zelda, it's like they're saying "if you don't like the gimmick, we can work with you to make this a regular console".

Lord Malakite
11-30-2006, 09:54 PM
In that post, you spent a lot of time commenting on and defending the Wii, so I just decided to head it off at the pass and build some connective tissue since the first and third replies in the post were both about the Wii anyway.
Fair enough to connect them if you wish to do so JT. My intention was to address each issue brought up in concern to the PS3 and Wii individually though without trying to compare the two.


Sure enough, but on the Nintendo side, consider that the name "Wii" is supposed to conjure up folks playing together, yet the Wii ships with just 1 Wiimote and Nunchuck, and a second set will cost you another $60.

You can look at the "Wii equals playing together" thing from two sides the way I see. The one way is from the "Wii equals playing together equals multiplayer" perspective like you are. In that case you are right that it would have been a wise to have included at least two remotes and two nunchuks. On the other side you can look at as "Wii equals playing together equals inviting family/friends who do not normally play games to join in and give it a try" or in other words Wii is something that the whole family could use if they choose, not just the hardcore gamer of the family.


Sony's ads are about the ethos of the machine. Nintendo's are about the goofy gimmicky play and everybody there is apparently playing WRONG.
There isn't a right or wrong way to play per say. If someone wishes to play as shown on the commercials in full workout mode they can choose to do so. I'm just pointing out that it isn't entirely neccessary to do so if one wishes not to do so.


The difference is that the Wii controls require a ton of wrist and/or elbow movement, where classic controls require only finger movement, and wrist/elbow movement can be far more painful and detrimental to a person's ability to use their arms which in turn can affect their ability to make an income.
Repetitive motion injuries were covered in Nintendo's warning pamplets long before Wii. True it may be more painful and detrimental when compared to the problems of older systems, but repetitive motion injuries are still repetive motion injuries regardless of where it occurs. Thats why its always good to read the pamplets to be aware of the risks beforehand and to follow the advice provided to at least try to prevent/minimize such accidents from happening.


If they find that people did indeed buy the Wii and are hungering to play more titles on it, yet aren't really enthused about using the Wiimote, they'll dump it and treat the Wii like the Gamecube. But you are right, for now they have tied themselves closely to the gimmick and even if they wanted to, could not cut it out cold-turkey, only weened off of it.
With as close as Nintendo has allied themselves with this controller setup it seems like it be a risky move on their part even if it were gradually cut off.


The NES drop-loading system was the gimmick that carried the machine beyond the Atari days just as the wacky wild Wiimote is the gimmick of their latest console, granted this gimmick is more crucial to gameplay but it's still in question whether it's any more necessary, especially when you realize the NES's chief failing was that stupid drop-down front-loader.
Well thats what we are about to find out.:thumbsup: You can't have a true innovation without investing some risk on the next possible gimmick. The directional pad, analog control sticks and rumble/duelshock probably wouldn't be entirely what they are today if Nintendo hadn't given those a chance in their systems.


I dunno, I look at what Nintendo's press releases are saying, and it seems like they're trying to hedge their bets on this, I notice they talk about a lot of games DON'T need the Wiimote play style and could be played normally with other controllers, and I hear the launch titles don't even make great use of the gimmick except for Wii Sports and Zelda, it's like they're saying "if you don't like the gimmick, we can work with you to make this a regular console".
They probably could make it a regular console if they wanted to or the controller thing doesn't pan out to most people's liking, but I doubt they could do it without alienating a large part of their customer base (as it is the whole reason to buy the thing in the first place).

El Chuxter
11-30-2006, 09:58 PM
Actually, the name of the Wii is meant to inspire people to play it in the bathroom.

JT, I'll drop the three pennies in the mail for you.

(Ah, these "Wii" jokes never get old.)

darthvyn
12-01-2006, 12:23 PM
If they don't take care to properly inform and control the motions required to use it, Nintendo will be liable for damages due to repetetive stress injuries, asking an untrained person to thwack away at the screen without warning them that flinging their arms back and forth wildly could cause serious injury will result in lawsuits that hold up, I suspect.

i understand that the litigious nature of people is always climbing higher and higher in this country, but i remember playing all kinds of games on my original NES and genesis, rolling all over the ground, falling off chairs with excitement, and punching my little brother when he beat me. my parents never sued. i say, if it takes motion sensing technology to get fat lazy slobs off their ***es and make them sweat off the fritos they've been munching, more power to nintendo.

plasticfetish
12-01-2006, 01:42 PM
and even if they wanted to, could not cut it out cold-turkey, only weened off of it.Don't you mean "Wii-ned" off of it? :stupid:

El Chuxter
12-01-2006, 02:22 PM
If plasticfetish corrects an obvious "Wii" joke that JT missed, does he owe him three cents?

JediTricks
12-01-2006, 03:18 PM
Fair enough to connect them if you wish to do so JT. My intention was to address each issue brought up in concern to the PS3 and Wii individually though without trying to compare the two.With a release date 2 days apart, I think there's some call to compare them. ;) But I do see what you mean.


You can look at the "Wii equals playing together" thing from two sides the way I see. The one way is from the "Wii equals playing together equals multiplayer" perspective like you are. In that case you are right that it would have been a wise to have included at least two remotes and two nunchuks. On the other side you can look at as "Wii equals playing together equals inviting family/friends who do not normally play games to join in and give it a try" or in other words Wii is something that the whole family could use if they choose, not just the hardcore gamer of the family.To me, playing together means multiple players, having people wait in line to play is the opposite of that.


There isn't a right or wrong way to play per say. If someone wishes to play as shown on the commercials in full workout mode they can choose to do so. I'm just pointing out that it isn't entirely neccessary to do so if one wishes not to do so.My point was that if the commercials showing people flailing about are turning off a significant customer base AND that flailing about is not crucial to gameplay, that is "wrong" advertising. Moreover, that kind of flailing can possibly lead to joint injuries so that'd be "wrong".


Repetitive motion injuries were covered in Nintendo's warning pamplets long before Wii. True it may be more painful and detrimental when compared to the problems of older systems, but repetitive motion injuries are still repetive motion injuries regardless of where it occurs. Thats why its always good to read the pamplets to be aware of the risks beforehand and to follow the advice provided to at least try to prevent/minimize such accidents from happening.Thumb damage really isn't the same though, recently we've seen stuff crop up about kids playing tennis and getting arm damage, soccer and getting bowed legs and knee damage and even neck damage because they're not taught to look for warning signs and not properly taught how to exercise responsibly.


With as close as Nintendo has allied themselves with this controller setup it seems like it be a risky move on their part even if it were gradually cut off.That's a DS situation, dedicated players who are devoted to the PDA-style of play in the machine, but if that dedicated audience isn't a core audience, if they become just a niche audience, they cannot determine the fate of the company all by themselves, just as Dreamcast devotees couldn't save their machine (though Neo Geo devotees somehow continued that one in the underground for a decade, but SNK was not entirely part of it so it didn't do them much good).


The directional pad, analog control sticks and rumble/duelshock probably wouldn't be entirely what they are today if Nintendo hadn't given those a chance in their systems.There's nothing innovative about the D-pad, it's just a 4-way arcade stick minus the actual stick part - and Nintendo and others DID make several stick controllers. The D-pad is just an Atari 2600 stick. :p Analog control sticks are the same thing, arcades had them standard long before SNK put them in the Neo Geo (this was before the N64's stick). The joystick technology is nearly 100 years old, since nearly the birth of flight. As for Rumble, I question Nintendo's role in the popularity of the product, the rumble pack for N64 sucked because it was an add-on that required separate batteries, and the same year it came out Sony released the Dualshock with built-in rumble motors that were powered by the console.

I think something often overlooked is Nintendo's innovation of 2 D-pads on the Virtual Boy, which paved the way for 2 directional controls on the N64 and PSX.



Actually, the name of the Wii is meant to inspire people to play it in the bathroom.

JT, I'll drop the three pennies in the mail for you.

(Ah, these "Wii" jokes never get old.)
Thank you, thank you. You know, your KITH 'tar kinda looks like it's making a Wii joke... ;) (I owe me 3 cents.)



i understand that the litigious nature of people is always climbing higher and higher in this country, but i remember playing all kinds of games on my original NES and genesis, rolling all over the ground, falling off chairs with excitement, and punching my little brother when he beat me. my parents never sued. i say, if it takes motion sensing technology to get fat lazy slobs off their ***es and make them sweat off the fritos they've been munching, more power to nintendo.That was not a required element of gameplay, therefore it could not be construed as the companies' fault, rather it'd be your parents at fault for raising you to be goofballs. :p

The reason we take PE is because random play is not structured enough to allow safe exercise, safe exercise means protecting your body's systems so they can serve you in the long term, the Wii is not doing so but is suggesting users tax their bodies anyway - that's not responsible behavior, especially for a product marketed to children.



Don't you mean "Wii-ned" off of it? :stupid:Ouch! I think you've coined a new Wii-parody copyright there, as limited use as it is. ;)

Lord Malakite
12-01-2006, 08:05 PM
My point was that if the commercials showing people flailing about are turning off a significant customer base AND that flailing about is not crucial to gameplay, that is "wrong" advertising. Moreover, that kind of flailing can possibly lead to joint injuries so that'd be "wrong".
At this point in the game I don't think there is enough evidence to say conclusively that it is turning off a "significant customer base" just from the opinions of some of the more vocal "traditional gamers." And at the same time it could be argued that it is just as easily turning on a new "significant customer base."

The "flailing" shown in the commercials to reproduce the activity in the game is no worse than attempting the same activities in real life. By that logic it would be "wrong" to advertise fishing, baseball, etc. equipment because "flailing" in those activities can also lead to joint injuries.


Thumb damage really isn't the same though, recently we've seen stuff crop up about kids playing tennis and getting arm damage, soccer and getting bowed legs and knee damage and even neck damage because they're not taught to look for warning signs and not properly taught how to exercise responsibly.
Nintendo provides those warning pamplets with pretty much every game sold and system they produce. If they aren't read and some injury does occur the responsibility should lie with the person playing or the parent if said person is a child. Nintendo did its part by providing the warning and they can't force people to read them, so its up to them to use their common sense and take some responsibility for themselves.


That's a DS situation, dedicated players who are devoted to the PDA-style of play in the machine, but if that dedicated audience isn't a core audience, if they become just a niche audience, they cannot determine the fate of the company all by themselves, just as Dreamcast devotees couldn't save their machine (though Neo Geo devotees somehow continued that one in the underground for a decade, but SNK was not entirely part of it so it didn't do them much good).
True enough. The big thing that has to be questioned though is can Nintendo even accommodate the core audience if they choose to go that route and quit using the remote. They could use GCN controllers, but would the main crowd want to use the older controller for the new system's games (especially how some hate it's design still today) or would they want something new. They could use the retro controller, but that would require also attaching/utilizing the remote which they wouldn't want. If they did make a new wireless controller that would force those with retro controllers/remotes to buy another controller because those are now obsolete devices. Maybe I'm just over thinking it but with as heavily relied upon as the remote's abilities are for this generation it seems like there would be a lot of alienizing going on for both sides (niche crowd and core crowd) if something did happen like that...even if it was a gradual change.


There's nothing innovative about the D-pad, it's just a 4-way arcade stick minus the actual stick part - and Nintendo and others DID make several stick controllers. The D-pad is just an Atari 2600 stick. :p Analog control sticks are the same thing, arcades had them standard long before SNK put them in the Neo Geo (this was before the N64's stick). The joystick technology is nearly 100 years old, since nearly the birth of flight. As for Rumble, I question Nintendo's role in the popularity of the product, the rumble pack for N64 sucked because it was an add-on that required separate batteries, and the same year it came out Sony released the Dualshock with built-in rumble motors that were powered by the console.
The d-pad is innovative in that it has a much better feel with 2-D games over almost any joystick for the console market...so much so that its been copied in some form with almost every console since the NES.

Analog sticks did exist in the console market before the N64 as you said JT but they didn't catch on fully until then. Even Sony's Playstation didn't attempt using analog sticks until after the N64's release.

Duelshock may have had the N64 rumble pack beat technology wise and been the main driving horse behind its popularity but with as close as those two items were in coming out you can't help but to wonder if Nintendo had at least some influence on Sony's decision. Similar can be said of the Sixaxis and the Wii-mote today.


I think something often overlooked is Nintendo's innovation of 2 D-pads on the Virtual Boy, which paved the way for 2 directional controls on the N64 and PSX.
I can agree with that...even extending it to the precursor for duel analog sticks on the GCN and PS2.

Dar' Argol
12-03-2006, 03:58 PM
The sixaxis IS in response to the Wii's remote. Since they lost the ability to use the dual-shock, they did need something. And it would seem that the sisaxis would cause far less damage the the Wii's controller. Also it would seem that you would need some room to use the Wii's controller. Personally I do not have that much room to be swinging my arms about.

What this will ultimately come down to is the consumers, if they buy into this gimmick or not. You are going to have those who will support Nintendo to the end, there are those who support Sony no matter what. And there are also the X-Box'ers. I use to be a Nintendo supporter, and then I found SEGA. I was a die-hard SEGA fan. I had the Master System, I got the Genesis. I bought the SEGA CD and 32X add ons. I even bought the Saturn. The Saturn was suppost to be the next best thing in gaming. Then they tanked it 6-8 months later in favor of the Dreamcast because it was "Thinking". I was vehemently against Playstation when it came out. But after getting burned on the Saturn, I went to Sony. I've been happy with them since because they do not rely on Gimmicks heavily, Its more about performance and delivering great games.

It is not relevant if the PowerGlove was a third party product or not, Nintendo authorized it and promoted it, just as they did their Game Pad for their Olympics games. If they were promoted properly, or better games created to support it the PowerGlove could have completely changed the face of gaming an brought us to a more "tron-like" era.

The Wii to me brings to mind the fact of people playing together, as JT said. Not showing someone how to do it an then having them try on their own. Most people who do not play are not going to just jump on this system because of the controller. Especially when in their eyes they are going to look like an idiot. Now if you have someone else next to you acting like an idiot too then people are more likely to do it. Idiots like being around thir ownind . . . he he he . . . tht is not a slam against anyone . . tha's just a personal funny.

The consumer will ultimately decide if the Wii's controller will be a hit or not. We can sit here and debate the pros and cons of it all we want. There have been plenty of systems that have come and gone, and they were pretty gimmick heavy. Personally I hope that this leads to a better way of gameplay . . . I don't think this is the way, but I think it may lead to it.

JediTricks
12-05-2006, 02:57 PM
The "flailing" shown in the commercials to reproduce the activity in the game is no worse than attempting the same activities in real life. By that logic it would be "wrong" to advertise fishing, baseball, etc. equipment because "flailing" in those activities can also lead to joint injuries.There are 2 differences though: A) people get some level of training for those other activities, which is supposed to include safe movement training; and B) all those activities have equipment with a real weight to them, you can do more damage throwing a pretend ball than you can throwing a real one because a lack of weight has no counterbalance or feedback so your joints are uncontrolled and hyperextending.


Nintendo provides those warning pamplets with pretty much every game sold and system they produce. If they aren't read and some injury does occur the responsibility should lie with the person playing or the parent if said person is a child. Nintendo did its part by providing the warning and they can't force people to read them, so its up to them to use their common sense and take some responsibility for themselves.It's completely different here, the activity is different and the chance for serious damage is significantly higher.


True enough. The big thing that has to be questioned though is can Nintendo even accommodate the core audience if they choose to go that route and quit using the remote. They could use GCN controllers, but would the main crowd want to use the older controller for the new system's games (especially how some hate it's design still today) or would they want something new. They could use the retro controller, but that would require also attaching/utilizing the remote which they wouldn't want. If they did make a new wireless controller that would force those with retro controllers/remotes to buy another controller because those are now obsolete devices. Maybe I'm just over thinking it but with as heavily relied upon as the remote's abilities are for this generation it seems like there would be a lot of alienizing going on for both sides (niche crowd and core crowd) if something did happen like that...even if it was a gradual change.It wouldn't be the first time a console got a new controller late in the game, the Sega Genesis upgraded from 3 to 6 buttons late in its life, and the PS1 changed controllers twice until it got to the Dualshock.


The d-pad is innovative in that it has a much better feel with 2-D games over almost any joystick for the console market...so much so that its been copied in some form with almost every console since the NES.Because it's smaller and cheaper to produce, not because it's better for the user. Now every system comes with at least 1 stick control, they just made the sticks smaller and stronger (I broke a lot of Atari 2600 controllers back in the day). The D-pad has been relegated to playing 4th fiddle behind the analog sticks, shoulder buttons, and face buttons.


Analog sticks did exist in the console market before the N64 as you said JT but they didn't catch on fully until then. Even Sony's Playstation didn't attempt using analog sticks until after the N64's release.Actually, the PS1 had an Analog controller which was the precursor to the Dualshock before the N64's release: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Flightstick


The sixaxis IS in response to the Wii's remote. Since they lost the ability to use the dual-shock, they did need something. And it would seem that the sisaxis would cause far less damage the the Wii's controller. Also it would seem that you would need some room to use the Wii's controller. Personally I do not have that much room to be swinging my arms about.That's a good point, the Sixaxis should be safer because users have to grip it with both hands anyway, plus because of that it MUST use more elbow movement since certain motions won't work with wrists moving in tandem (you can't turn it right by moving your wrists because the controller would come out of one hand or the other).

General_Grievous
12-06-2006, 02:44 PM
Why did Sony lose the DualShock feature, anyway? I can't imagine playing a shooter without feeling that vibration as you fire off an AK-47. And how does the six-axis thing work, anyway?

JediTricks
12-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Why did Sony lose the DualShock feature, anyway? I can't imagine playing a shooter without feeling that vibration as you fire off an AK-47. And how does the six-axis thing work, anyway?
A major theory is that the $97 mil they lost in the lawsuit over the dualshock rumble motors made them not want to give up any more money. It also seems like a wireless remote with 2 rumble motors is a great way to eat up the batteries fast.

Lord Malakite
12-06-2006, 11:58 PM
There are 2 differences though: A) people get some level of training for those other activities, which is supposed to include safe movement training; and B) all those activities have equipment with a real weight to them, you can do more damage throwing a pretend ball than you can throwing a real one because a lack of weight has no counterbalance or feedback so your joints are uncontrolled and hyperextending.

It's completely different here, the activity is different and the chance for serious damage is significantly higher.

When it comes down to it in the end it will just have to fall on people to use common sense in order to not get injured (God help us all :cry: ), not having Nintendo hold their hands. The warning pamplets on repetitive motion injuries (regardless of the motion, be buttion pushing or wrist flicking) are there for the reading and you don't have to be Einstein to figure out whipping a remote around repeatedly at 90 mph (if they go that route) will eventually do damage to yourself and/or your friends/stuff. Lawsuits may (and no doubt in my mind will) come from injuries from people's ignorance JT (McDonald's hot coffee anyone), but I honestly can't say I will have much sympathy for them (especially the 90 mph swinging people).


It wouldn't be the first time a console got a new controller late in the game, the Sega Genesis upgraded from 3 to 6 buttons late in its life, and the PS1 changed controllers twice until it got to the Dualshock.
And all could be associated in part to keeping up with the competition. The 6 button Genesis controller due to complaints of not enough buttons for games (like fighters) when compared to the SNES for example. The PS1 brought the duel analog sticks to their controller in answer to the N64 controller's use of one stick and then the built-in rumble (and later Duel Shock) was added due to the N64 Rumble pak accessory.


Because it's smaller and cheaper to produce, not because it's better for the user. Now every system comes with at least 1 stick control, they just made the sticks smaller and stronger (I broke a lot of Atari 2600 controllers back in the day). The D-pad has been relegated to playing 4th fiddle behind the analog sticks, shoulder buttons, and face buttons.
It may just be my personal preference then, but I have always liked the D-pad compared to sticks when it comes to 2D gaming. In today's 3D gaming world the D-pad maybe the 4th fiddle, but back in the 2D era it reigned supreme. If it didn't almost everyone wouldn't have used some form of it past the NES to even current day. When Nintendo planned not include a D-pad initially on the GCN controller gamers all across the internet outcried and had a **** fit because of the potential drastic effect it would have on fighter games and 2D games that may have been offered. If that doesn't speak for importance I don't know what does.


Actually, the PS1 had an Analog controller which was the precursor to the Dualshock before the N64's release: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Flightstick

Perhaps I should clarify myself then. When I said analog sticks I meant to refer to analog "thumb sticks." I often think of analog sticks and thumb sticks as being synonymous with each other (probably due to the N64 being my first real exposure to them). The larger sticks (analog or not) that you hold with your whole hand (the NES Advantage controller, Atari 2600 controllers, arcade machines, etc.) I usually just think of and refer to as "joysticks." Since both "thumb" and "hand" varieties come in both "analog" and "digital" moving versions I'm sorry about the misunderstanding there.


A major theory is that the $97 mil they lost in the lawsuit over the dualshock rumble motors made them not want to give up any more money. It also seems like a wireless remote with 2 rumble motors is a great way to eat up the batteries fast.
It also screwed with the movement capabilities of the Sixaxis according to Sony. Whether it is true or just a line Sony has been feeding people hasn't been confirmed.

Lord Malakite
12-07-2006, 01:06 AM
And how does the six-axis thing work, anyway? The Sixaxis contains an accelerometer for measuring movement and tilt.

Dar' Argol
12-08-2006, 03:43 PM
And how does the six-axis thing work, anyway?

In easier terms think of a plane . . . Tilt the controller forward and the plane dives. Tilt it back andthe plane climbs . . . tilt it left or right and you get the idea . . . . although that is only 4 axis's . . . .where's the other 2???



It also seems like a wireless remote with 2 rumble motors is a great way to eat up the batteries fast.

Actually no. I have the Logitech Wireless controller for my PS2 and since X-Mas last year I have replaced the 2 AA batteries twice. And I play a LOT!!

JediTricks
12-08-2006, 04:36 PM
Yesterday I finally got to play the PS3 demo at Target, the guy who was playing the NBA'07 game (which looked very nice) walked away and then nobody was using it even though it was actually working. I tracked down the playable demo menu (someone left it at the video menu) and booted up Motorstorm - MAN did that game look and play good! I sucked at it, and the controller's lack of rumble was a tremendous loss, but the game was awesome and the analog R2 and L2 buttons with their larger footprint, new spring design, and longer travel were a noticable upgrade from the Dualshock. And Target only had the monitor at 780i not the full 1080 so it can only get better. I think getting those demo machines into all the Target stores is going to really make an impact since the 360 demo machine is gone from there and the Wii doesn't have live demo - of course, if the PS3s keep locking up then it'll look bad, but when it's online it's going to really blow folks' minds.



When it comes down to it in the end it will just have to fall on people to use common sense in order to not get injured (God help us all :cry: ), not having Nintendo hold their hands.Yes, we should all trust that using common sense with a child's toy is going to be a prerequisite... ahahahaha! Never gonna happen, Nintendo's going to get swamped with broken TV lawsuits and repetetive motion injuries out the wing-wang, and they know it, they're scrambling right now to fix the strap and they are refusing to talk to any news media about the issue - they're probably clamming up because their lawyers told them to.


The warning pamplets on repetitive motion injuries (regardless of the motion, be buttion pushing or wrist flicking) are there for the reading and you don't have to be Einstein to figure out whipping a remote around repeatedly at 90 mph (if they go that route) will eventually do damage to yourself and/or your friends/stuff.But they expect a children's toy to do such damage? That's going to be a cornerstone for these lawsuits, what level of expectations users and parents of users should have. The bottom line is that Nintendo isn't doing their part to properly educate users on safe use of their product.


Lawsuits may (and no doubt in my mind will) come from injuries from people's ignorance JT (McDonald's hot coffee anyone)That is a bad example to cite though because a court of law found McDonalds 80% at fault in that situation, their own testimony said they serve the coffee at 190 degrees, hotter than is safe for human consumption, and when asked why they said THEY DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DO IT AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT POLICY. The system felt the consumer was 20% at fault but McDonalds' policies were beyond a reasonable expectation for her to have known.


And all could be associated in part to keeping up with the competition. The 6 button Genesis controller due to complaints of not enough buttons for games (like fighters) when compared to the SNES for example. The PS1 brought the duel analog sticks to their controller in answer to the N64 controller's use of one stick and then the built-in rumble (and later Duel Shock) was added due to the N64 Rumble pak accessory.Please cite evidence of such, the Genesis 6-button was just as likely a response to a slowing gaming market - they threw a ton wacky ideas out at that time to keep support alive for the Genesis when it was waning, the worst of which was the 32x. And Sony playing catch-up to the N64? Sony's analog controller was in development before the N64 was even released so again, it could just as easily have been to create more hardware and software sales.


It may just be my personal preference then, but I have always liked the D-pad compared to sticks when it comes to 2D gaming. In today's 3D gaming world the D-pad maybe the 4th fiddle, but back in the 2D era it reigned supreme. If it didn't almost everyone wouldn't have used some form of it past the NES to even current day.I never cared for the D-pad much, especially the horrible 8-way D-pad on the Genesis, that thing sucked. The D-pad reigned supreme because it was cheap, small, and could transmit the simple on-off movement information over a ridiculously small bandwidth which was important back when they were using 8-prong ports on machines and had limited information they could move between controller and console. But it was limited even in the NES days, I hated driving games where your accellerator choices were "on" or "off" and you had to tap the pad up at a certain speed to not drive too fast. And any game like Street Fighter 2 which required a sweeping motion, on the SNES the D-pad just couldn't accomodate and it always sucked.


When Nintendo planned not include a D-pad initially on the GCN controller gamers all across the internet outcried and had a **** fit because of the potential drastic effect it would have on fighter games and 2D games that may have been offered. If that doesn't speak for importance I don't know what does.All it speaks of is gamers fear of change, sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong.


Perhaps I should clarify myself then. When I said analog sticks I meant to refer to analog "thumb sticks." I often think of analog sticks and thumb sticks as being synonymous with each other (probably due to the N64 being my first real exposure to them). The larger sticks (analog or not) that you hold with your whole hand (the NES Advantage controller, Atari 2600 controllers, arcade machines, etc.) I usually just think of and refer to as "joysticks." Since both "thumb" and "hand" varieties come in both "analog" and "digital" moving versions I'm sorry about the misunderstanding there.Here's the thing, thumbsticks are just smaller versions of full-sized joysticks, so the technology is the same use, just applied at a different scale - same as the 2600 joystick vs the NES D-pad, they're identical technology underneath.


It also screwed with the movement capabilities of the Sixaxis according to Sony. Whether it is true or just a line Sony has been feeding people hasn't been confirmed.I was going to say that it might mess with the motion sensors but was only theorizing so I threw it out of my post, that's very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if dualshock motors would mess with the sixaxis sensors, the dualshock motors aren't centralized so if one goes off it'll be felt more on 1 side of the controller than the other, the Wiimote has a single central rumble motor so it'd feel the vibrations evenly. Then again, there may be ways to filter out that motion, especially when the console KNOWS it's creating it.


In easier terms think of a plane . . . Tilt the controller forward and the plane dives. Tilt it back andthe plane climbs . . . tilt it left or right and you get the idea . . . . although that is only 4 axis's . . . .where's the other 2???Rotational along 3 axes (yaw, pitch and roll) and 3 axes of linear motion (up-down, side to side, and back-forth). So let's use a spaceship example:
- tilt the controller forward or back and the ship pitches up or down, that's 1 axis;
- tilt it to the left or right and the ship rolls left or right, that's another axis;
- tilt one side forward and the other side back and the ship rotates from its midpoint, that's yaw, another axis;
- move the controller sideways and the ship slides sideways;
- move the controller up or down and the ship moves straight up or down;
- finally, move the controller forward or back and the ship moves forward or back.


Actually no. I have the Logitech Wireless controller for my PS2 and since X-Mas last year I have replaced the 2 AA batteries twice. And I play a LOT!!Well, the Sixaxis only has 30 hours of play between charges without rumble motors.

Lord Malakite
12-09-2006, 11:01 PM
Yes, we should all trust that using common sense with a child's toy is going to be a prerequisite... ahahahaha! Never gonna happen, Nintendo's going to get swamped with broken TV lawsuits and repetetive motion injuries out the wing-wang, and they know it, they're scrambling right now to fix the strap and they are refusing to talk to any news media about the issue - they're probably clamming up because their lawyers told them to.

Nintendo is usually good about replacing defective products. Broken straps are already being replaced free of charge from Nintendo's consumer services and they are looking into a means of improving the strap. Lawsuits...we'll just have to take a "wait and see" approach to how that develops.

Can't be any worse then the eye damage complaints of the Virtual Boy.;) lol


But they expect a children's toy to do such damage? That's going to be a cornerstone for these lawsuits, what level of expectations users and parents of users should have. The bottom line is that Nintendo isn't doing their part to properly educate users on safe use of their product.
I can't say you are entirely wrong or right on this matter until I get hold of a Wii console myself and have a chance to look through all the manuals. I do know repetitive motion injuries is covered in prior Nintendo systems though. I'll admit it is a little different this time around because it is more than pushing buttons, but at the same time it is still repetitive motion injuries. The pamplets with the Wii may be more detailed than that (such as proper usage techniques, wearing the strap, etc.) so you don't hurt yourself or your stuff. Without the console though I can't say either way.


That is a bad example to cite though because a court of law found McDonalds 80% at fault in that situation, their own testimony said they serve the coffee at 190 degrees, hotter than is safe for human consumption, and when asked why they said THEY DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DO IT AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT POLICY. The system felt the consumer was 20% at fault but McDonalds' policies were beyond a reasonable expectation for her to have known.
Yes, it is hard to have a reasonable expectation that McDonald's policy of maintaining "hot coffee" would actually mean the coffee would be hot.:D


Please cite evidence of such, the Genesis 6-button was just as likely a response to a slowing gaming market - they threw a ton wacky ideas out at that time to keep support alive for the Genesis when it was waning, the worst of which was the 32x. And Sony playing catch-up to the N64? Sony's analog controller was in development before the N64 was even released so again, it could just as easily have been to create more hardware and software sales.
I wouldn't call this undeniable proof (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=3&cId=3143627) about the 6-button Genesis controller, but it is a start.:thumbsup:

The Sony thing I wouldn't call "catching up." If anythng I would say Sony was (and still is) trying to match Nintendo blow for blow in a sort of "me too" syndrom. Sony does some tinkering with analog for an "extra controller" but nothing major really comes of it. Then Nintendo decides to do analog with "thumbsticks" and adds early drafts of a "rumbling" accessory in the mix. Seeing the potential of Nintendo's "standard controller" route Sony then decides to play their analog tech in the same "me too" manner. The "Duel Analog controller" with thumb sticks (and for Japan only built-in rumble) is shown to the public at about the same time as the N64's release. Later as the rumble ability became more popular in the U.S. and Japan the "Duelshock" with built-in duel-rumbling ability was released to primarily trump Nintendo's then "rumble monopoly" in the U.S. Now with the Nintendo Wii adding tilt motion and motion sensing into the mix Sony just conveniently shows off its own tilt motion Sixaxis Controller only six months after Nintendo' remote. There is just too many coincidences between Sony's products to Nintendo's.

They maybe researching this same technology independently of Nintendo and aren't playing catch up in the truest sense, but they sure as hell appear like they are letting Nintendo influence the if/when/how the technology is applied for it to be a success.


Here's the thing, thumbsticks are just smaller versions of full-sized joysticks, so the technology is the same use, just applied at a different scale - same as the 2600 joystick vs the NES D-pad, they're identical technology underneath.
The funny thing about innovation is it doesn't always have to be something entirely new. It can just as easily be a simple improvement (redesign) on something old.

Lord Malakite
12-10-2006, 02:17 AM
It looks like we have our first lawsuit over the Nintendo Wii's remote JT.



Its not about what you were thinking of though (http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/InterlinkvNintendo.pdf).

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-10-2006, 08:48 AM
It looks like we have our first lawsuit over the Nintendo Wii's remote JT.



Its not about what you were thinking of though (http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/InterlinkvNintendo.pdf).

People are effin' morons; do they REALLY think they'll get anything out of this? It's like if i went to the store, bought a bike, brought it home and wiped out, turned around and sued Huffy. C'mon you assclowns, this is pointless!

Still, the one website: http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/index.php has some of the funniest pictures i've ever seen. Clumsy Americans. :crazed:

hango fett
12-10-2006, 01:32 PM
well, with me now working at a local GameStop (awsome job), i have played the "PS3" several times and every time, i try to find the diffrence in the graphics between the PS3 and the 360. i can't see any. and another handy tidbit is something everyon probably knows, but must be said in the manner i am going to say it in.
ok. i was playing the PS3 at gamestop, specifacly the motocross or w/ever its called. i was maybe a lap or 2 into it and it suddenly froze. the musice was still playing right along where the game should have been, but the screen wouldn't budge. after that, i got the "glorious pleasure" of re-setting the damn thing. this means i had to unlock the 2 locks in the back of the kiosk and discovered a PS3 can nearly produce molten metal. the outlets in the kiosk had metal coverings and i brushed my wrist on it and almost lost it. it was insanley hot! did they not put any fans in the PS3? i figure with a single processor doing a trillion things per seconds wouldn't get that hot, but i was wrong. well, theres my rant on this infernal machine. GET THE Wii! it rocks! but don't get red steel. it sucks!
HF

JediTricks
12-10-2006, 08:09 PM
Can't be any worse then the eye damage complaints of the Virtual Boy.;) lolHow can you fear a slew of lawsuits when only 10 people bought the thing to begin with? :p With that thing, they warned you strenuously not to use it beyond 15 minutes and they explained safe-eye use.


Yes, it is hard to have a reasonable expectation that McDonald's policy of maintaining "hot coffee" would actually mean the coffee would be hot.:DWhen you wash your hands with hot water, it's not so hot that it could immediately scald you. When you sell someone a ready-to-consume product at a temperature unsafe for human consumption and can't explain WHY it's so hot that it can destroy human tissue on contact, generally that's above the expectations for "hot". Just because a product is called "hot chocolate" doesn't mean it has to be as hot as the sun.


It looks like we have our first lawsuit over the Nintendo Wii's remote JT.

Its not about what you were thinking of though (http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/InterlinkvNintendo.pdf).There are 2 possibilities here, either they're going to get annihiliated when Nintendo crops up with a billion patents showing prior art and this company will lose their patent, or the judge will go "duh" and say "prior patent filed, nothing I can do" and Nintendo will have to pay royalties on the wiimote general concept, probably leading to a total change of the wiimote layout. Unfortunately for Nintendo, a lot of judges have been going "duh" lately about the patent office, they've even instituted something called the "obviousness test" to rule out cases even though the POINT of a case like this is to dig deeper into an issue than just the surface elements.



well, with me now working at a local GameStop (awsome job), i have played the "PS3" several times and every time, i try to find the diffrence in the graphics between the PS3 and the 360. i can't see any. and another handy tidbit is something everyon probably knows, but must be said in the manner i am going to say it in. They're probably about the same really, but I've not seen any demos on the 360 that have blown my mind, maybe it's just a poor choice of demo titles. Do you know what resolution the consoles' TVs were displaying at?


ok. i was playing the PS3 at gamestop, specifacly the motocross or w/ever its called. i was maybe a lap or 2 into it and it suddenly froze.Motorstorm, that game looks awesome but it's an unfinished demo which only furthers the likelihood of the lockup-prone PS3 crashing.


after that, i got the "glorious pleasure" of re-setting the damn thing. this means i had to unlock the 2 locks in the back of the kiosk and discovered a PS3 can nearly produce molten metal. the outlets in the kiosk had metal coverings and i brushed my wrist on it and almost lost it. it was insanley hot! did they not put any fans in the PS3?That's exactly what happened last year with the 360 displays, the machine doesn't have enough fans and vents and would get hot very quickly leading to lockup, many of the demo units were also pre-production models so they weren't tuned quite right, and the some of the demo cabinets were blocking airflow, leading to a bad public opinion about the console locking up all the time, now it looks like the PS3 is in the same boat, they put just 1 large fan in there, a bunch of vents (but none on top where the HEAT accumulates) and a few heat pipes which I've found are kinda useless without quality heatsinks - without being able to bleed off their heat into a heatsink, the pipes absorb heat and get hot and then have nothing to do with that heat but hold on to it.


i figure with a single processor doing a trillion things per seconds wouldn't get that hot, but i was wrong.Actually, it has a dual cell processor so it's technically 2 processors (and each cell processor is essentially multiple processors in 1 board) and the more computations per second it does, the more electricity it requires and the more heat it generates.

JediTricks
12-11-2006, 02:48 PM
I doubt any of us will find this article a surprise:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-12-07T231503Z_01_N07316023_RTRIDST_0_SONY-PS3-BLURAY.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

I didn't know there were companies culling data from posts such as ours though, that's a little weird.

The part I found most interesting was this, near the end:

Microsoft recently added an optional HD-DVD player [to the Xbox 360] and began offering full-length film and TV downloads in high-definition via its Xbox Live online gaming service.

Mark Knox, a spokesman for the HD-DVD consortium, said offering HD-DVD as an add-on was an important distinction.

"We know that every HD-DVD drive being sold to Xbox users is being used to watch films. They're not being forced to buy it," he said. "Every PS3 includes a Blu-ray drive, but that doesn't mean every gamer wants to watch a movie on PS3."
That is SO true! I have not heard of 1 person with a PS3 watching a Blu-Ray DVD movie. Sony really did force this on the gamer market and I think it's their biggest mistake.

Dar' Argol
12-11-2006, 04:05 PM
after that, i got the "glorious pleasure" of re-setting the damn thing. this means i had to unlock the 2 locks in the back of the kiosk and discovered a PS3 can nearly produce molten metal. the outlets in the kiosk had metal coverings and i brushed my wrist on it and almost lost it. it was insanley hot! did they not put any fans in the PS3? i figure with a single processor doing a trillion things per seconds wouldn't get that hot, but i was wrong.
HF

Well, if GameStop is anything like GameCrazy (I have one of those near by) I know the "kiosk" they use for these systems. Its a small box with no air flow at all. Not exactly a re-creation of the average gamers set up. I mean I don't know too many gamers who get their sstem and then lock it up in a tiny box to paly it. So its no wonder its reaching Nuclear heat level and locking up. And as JT stated this was the same problem with the X-Box.



Actually, it has a dual cell processor so it's technically 2 processors (and each cell processor is essentially multiple processors in 1 board) and the more computations per second it does, the more electricity it requires and the more heat it generates.

Is it actual Dual cell processor??? I got a tech book a bit ago and this is what it stated about the processor:


One point eight trillion calculations per second. Welcome to the mind of the Cell Broadband Engine: Playstation 3 system's advanced microprocessor. Wth up to eight Synergistic Processor Units (SPUs), or "cores"to help balance the workload, it's more powerful and more efficient than traditional "single-core" processors. Translated, that means the Playstation 3 is fast - really fast. And it has to be. It's got a lot to think about. The physics alone on Playstation 3 are wicked. It also learns and acts unpredictably. Artificial Intelligence has given way to "Actual Intelligence" - which means your enemies can learn you best moves and counteract the,. The Playstaion 3 system's Processor is 40 times faster than the Playstation 2 chip. The result? Some choice words come to mind: high fidelity, high definition, and hyper-reality to name a few.

40 times faster than the chip that runs the Playstaion 2
1 Power Processing Unit (PPU) and 8 Synergistic Processing units (SPUs)
1.8 trillion calculations per second
Capable of running at speeds of 3.2 GHz
Memory bandwidth: 25.6 Gigabytes per second



So I don't know if its 2 processors or more then that. I'll have to see if I can locate pics of an opened PS3 . . . with all its guts hanging out:D

Lord Malakite
12-12-2006, 12:12 AM
When you wash your hands with hot water, it's not so hot that it could immediately scald you.
Not normally no, but usually that is because faucets are used frequently enough on a day to day basis that people normally have the common sense to turn on the hot water gradually and test the water before it gets to that scalding point. If one isn't careful and just turns it on full blast and has their water heater setup too high it could easily cause immediate scalding. There are several cases I've heard of this happening. Most involve infants or toddlers in tubs, but I've also heard of a few adult cases happening while showering or washing their hands.


When you sell someone a ready-to-consume product at a temperature unsafe for human consumption and can't explain WHY it's so hot that it can destroy human tissue on contact, generally that's above the expectations for "hot".
Thats stupidity on McDonalds part for such a lame *** answer about not knowing. It should have been common sense on the victim's part (and McDonalds) that anything just coming out from the machine would be too hot for immediate human consumption (much less spilling on one's lap while trying to consume). It be almost like me trying to eat lasagna right out of the pan with just my face at the same time as I was taking it out of the oven from cooking it.:laugh:


Just because a product is called "hot chocolate" doesn't mean it has to be as hot as the sun.
I could be wrong but I don't think that it is technically possible to get something that hot with current technology.:D


There are 2 possibilities here, either they're going to get annihiliated when Nintendo crops up with a billion patents showing prior art and this company will lose their patent, or the judge will go "duh" and say "prior patent filed, nothing I can do" and Nintendo will have to pay royalties on the wiimote general concept, probably leading to a total change of the wiimote layout. Unfortunately for Nintendo, a lot of judges have been going "duh" lately about the patent office, they've even instituted something called the "obviousness test" to rule out cases even though the POINT of a case like this is to dig deeper into an issue than just the surface elements.
I can agree with the judges going "duh" lately. There sure is a lot of "duh" going on recently in that department.;)


That's exactly what happened last year with the 360 displays, the machine doesn't have enough fans and vents and would get hot very quickly leading to lockup, many of the demo units were also pre-production models so they weren't tuned quite right, and the some of the demo cabinets were blocking airflow, leading to a bad public opinion about the console locking up all the time, now it looks like the PS3 is in the same boat, they put just 1 large fan in there, a bunch of vents (but none on top where the HEAT accumulates) and a few heat pipes which I've found are kinda useless without quality heatsinks - without being able to bleed off their heat into a heatsink, the pipes absorb heat and get hot and then have nothing to do with that heat but hold on to it.
With the exception of the demo units in stores I haven't heard much about overheating issues as of yet.

JediTricks
12-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Is it actual Dual cell processor??? I got a tech book a bit ago and this is what it stated about the processor:

So I don't know if its 2 processors or more then that. I'll have to see if I can locate pics of an opened PS3 . . . with all its guts hanging out:D Hmm, I thought I read somewhere that it was a Dual system... the Cell Processor page on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor) mentions it has a Dual Cell Server and Dual Cell Blade configuration, but I think that's just about threading so it's possible the page I read about 2 processors before is mistaken about what it means.


Not normally no, but usually that is because faucets are used frequently enough on a day to day basis that people normally have the common sense to turn on the hot water gradually and test the water before it gets to that scalding point. If one isn't careful and just turns it on full blast and has their water heater setup too high it could easily cause immediate scalding. There are several cases I've heard of this happening. Most involve infants or toddlers in tubs, but I've also heard of a few adult cases happening while showering or washing their hands.My point was that there are acceptable variations in the term "hot". And there's a key difference in your example, users washing their hands can immediately control the temperature of the faucet whereas the McDonalds coffee is sold at 1 specific temp not under the control of the customer even though the sale is intended to be for immediate consumption - immediate consumption of McDonalds coffee will physically damage the customer. And this woman didn't test it to find out it was scaldingly hot, she didn't CHOOSE to receive severe injuries, it spilled accidentally on her at a temperature hot enough to IMMEDIATELY scald her, giving her 3rd degree burns and putting her in the hospital for a week ultimately requiring skin grafts, and 2 years of further treatment.


Thats stupidity on McDonalds part for such a lame *** answer about not knowing.It's their corporate policy, they REQUIRE it, and it cost them millions in punitive damages (the jury charged them 2 days' worth of coffee revenues) when it could have been settled for the $11k in medical expenses and $9k in pain and suffering she originally asked for. (Actually, the judge knocked it down to a $640k total judgement and McDonalds fought, they ended up settling with her for $600k)


It should have been common sense on the victim's part (and McDonalds) that anything just coming out from the machine would be too hot for immediate human consumption (much less spilling on one's lap while trying to consume). It be almost like me trying to eat lasagna right out of the pan with just my face at the same time as I was taking it out of the oven from cooking it.Again, that's an inaccurate likening, this wasn't "straight out of the machine", McDonalds corporate requires that the coffee be SERVED at 180 to 190 no matter when its made even though it's purchased as intended for immediate consumption.


I could be wrong but I don't think that it is technically possible to get something that hot with current technology.:DGranted, the sun is pretty hot. :p But compared to the heat we get from it at the Earth, it could be superheated to a temperature significantly over boiling, but with the sugar and milk in the drink it'd be pretty difficult to get it that hot.


With the exception of the demo units in stores I haven't heard much about overheating issues as of yet.I've heard of a few lockups beyond the demos, and I would not be surprised if the chief cause was overheating leading to failure, the PS3's cabinet seems like a magnet for heat.

That reminds me, the other night I turned off my slimline PS2 but it only has standby mode so I didn't hold the button long enough and instead rebooted it, it was on all night playing the SW:BF2 demo, the machine doesn't have an internal fan instead relying on more heatsinks and vents, the next day I hear something moving and it's the laser carriage moving back and forth, it was still working, but the housing was pretty warm.

Lord Malakite
12-12-2006, 11:23 PM
Again, that's an inaccurate likening, this wasn't "straight out of the machine", McDonalds corporate requires that the coffee be SERVED at 180 to 190 no matter when its made even though it's purchased as intended for immediate consumption.
On the contrary. Regardless of when it was made the coffee still had to come straight out of some sort of machine to maintain it at that 180-190 "just brewed hot" level everyone likes it at when it is finally sold.:p ;)

Man, we sure took this topic way off track.:D

JediTricks
12-13-2006, 03:35 PM
McDonalds' coffee is not dispensed directly from a machine, it's poured from a decanter. While the decanter is likely set on a warming plate, the decanter itself is not a machine and the warming plate's only function is to warm up the decanter, not to make the coffee. And it's all Sony's fault.

BTW, if you are ever burned in the crotch by overheated scalding hot coffee requiring an 8-day stay in the hospital, 2 years of treatment, and skin grafts in your most sensitive areas, I suspect you're going to feel differently about tort law. :p Anyone who burns my junk is getting served with a lawsuit... if they're lucky, JUST a lawsuit!!!

jjreason
12-14-2006, 06:15 PM
Anyone checked the prices on ebay lately? I could have won a couple of different auctions for the 20GB unit for just over $400 US last night.

The 60GB is still over $700, which is what I understand the shelf price was, correct? How much was the 20GB version going for?

plasticfetish
12-14-2006, 07:04 PM
Meh... I didn't check to see which ones they were, but the Target down the way from us has 5 or 6 of them on the shelf, and they aren't moving too quickly, so...

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 08:39 PM
Anyone checked the prices on ebay lately? I could have won a couple of different auctions for the 20GB unit for just over $400 US last night.

The 60GB is still over $700, which is what I understand the shelf price was, correct? How much was the 20GB version going for?The base model is $500 and the deluxe model is $600, before sales tax.

There are still none in my local stores, they're basically legends.

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 09:05 PM
A friend of mine works at TRU and says he's heard a bunch of complaints about the consoles having probs, not just lockups but HD issues like refusing to display in 1080, refusing to switch to HD mode at all, refusing to show any picture. Plus, Sony claims the backwards compatibility is fixed but still a ton of issues reported.

Tenric78
12-15-2006, 10:40 PM
Okay, I'm not going to bother reading all the posts here, but my buddy has been testing PS3s and here's his response when I asked him about this:

Out of 5,000 games 200 don't work.

Come on, let's be fair to Sony... that's freaking good considering that its a bonus to the system and not a critical function.

And no I'm not a Sony fan boy. I'm an XBox fanboy.

Dar' Argol
12-16-2006, 01:08 AM
A friend of mine works at TRU and says he's heard a bunch of complaints about the consoles having probs, not just lockups but HD issues like refusing to display in 1080, refusing to switch to HD mode at all, refusing to show any picture. Plus, Sony claims the backwards compatibility is fixed but still a ton of issues reported.

You know, there were issues with the 1st releases of the PS2. Not being able to play the purple backed discs, locking up at the browser menu, etc. So hearing that the PS3 is having issues is no real surprise. Which is kinda glad I am waiting to get one. Not just for the price issue, but so they get the thing working 100% by the time I get one. Of course by that time we may be talking about the PS4 . . . .

JediTricks - And now they are saying you will be able to plug it right into your head.

Dar Argol - I finally got one!!!!

JediTricks - A PS4!?!?! How did you manage that one DA?

Dar Argol - PS4??? No, I finally scored a PS3!!! woot!!

JediTricks - Year and a half later and you are just getting one?? And did they just discover fire there in Pennsyl-tucky????

Dar Argol - You know one day I will find my feelings and you may hurt them . . . . until then . . . *singsong* I got a PS3 I got a PS3 I got a PS3

Lord Malakite
12-17-2006, 01:40 AM
BTW, if you are ever burned in the crotch by overheated scalding hot coffee requiring an 8-day stay in the hospital, 2 years of treatment, and skin grafts in your most sensitive areas, I suspect you're going to feel differently about tort law. :p Anyone who burns my junk is getting served with a lawsuit... if they're lucky, JUST a lawsuit!!!
Haven't had a crotch incident yet, but I did dump a pan of boiling water with hot dogs in it once on my face. Does that count?:D


A friend of mine works at TRU and says he's heard a bunch of complaints about the consoles having probs, not just lockups but HD issues like refusing to display in 1080, refusing to switch to HD mode at all, refusing to show any picture. Plus, Sony claims the backwards compatibility is fixed but still a ton of issues reported.
Backwards compatibility will most likely never be fixed 100% (in the physical sense) JT. The the original PS2 had some PS1 compatibility (http://www.us.playstation.com/News/ConsumerAlerts/Compatibility.html) issues. The updated slim PS2 corrected most of these problems, but it wasn't even 100% compatible (http://www.us.playstation.com/News/ConsumerAlerts/softwareTitles_75001.html) with all PS1 (and even some PS2) games. So it is kind of hard to expect the PS3 to acheive that goal.

Sony is going to try to remedy most of the problems by having various firmware updates as well as offering their own version of the "Virtual Console" in which nearly all PS1 and PS2 games will be made available for download.

There is a bit of a catch though, from what I understand the initial offerings will be primarily PS1 games and you will need to own a PSP to play them. Sony plans on eventually making the games playable on the PS3 directly, but that could be some time off.

JediTricks
12-18-2006, 03:34 PM
Haven't had a crotch incident yet, but I did dump a pan of boiling water with hot dogs in it once on my face. Does that count?:DWho boils hot dogs? Takes all the flavor out! Anyway, you were preparing them so you're at fault. Haw haw. Plus, in hindsight, I bet you were happy that boiling water didn't hit your crotch. ;)

Lord Malakite
12-19-2006, 07:43 PM
Anyway, you were preparing them so you're at fault. Haw haw. Plus, in hindsight, I bet you were happy that boiling water didn't hit your crotch. ;)
Actually my mom was preparing them (I was only 3 or 4 at the time). In hindsight all I remember is having my head and body held under a cold running faucet while screaming.:cross-eye

Val Da Car
12-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Actually my mom was preparing them (I was only 3 or 4 at the time). In hindsight all I remember is having my head and body held under a cold running faucet while screaming.:cross-eye

Almost as bad I me falling on the bunk bed ladder 2 days before Christmas (at the age of 8) I need 3 stiches on my BUTT.

kinda funny but sad..

Tenric78
12-19-2006, 10:34 PM
Actually my mom was preparing them (I was only 3 or 4 at the time). In hindsight all I remember is having my head and body held under a cold running faucet while screaming.:cross-eye

That's terrible!!!

I boil hotdogs.

Lord Malakite
12-19-2006, 11:30 PM
That's terrible!!!
And ironically it is far from the only tragic experience I have had while growing up.

I was electrocuted by a plug outlet around the age of 4 or 5, stabbed in the back some 15-16 times or so around age 8 or 9, split my skull open on the corner of a coffee table at the age of 2, took a drill bit to the eye at around the age of 6 or 7 and took another drill bit in the stomach my freshman year of high school.

If that weren't enough I fell from the top of Ohio University's Jeff Hill (http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/layout/images/2005/04/06/01050406_jeffhill_thumb.jpg) and tumbled down the pothole filled brick paved street all the way to the bottom after tripping over my shoe lace during my freshman year of college. During my freshman year I should also point out that those poles at the top and bottom weren't there and the street was open to vehicles (one vehicle just happened to be going up the hill at the same moment too).

Now thats terrible.

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 04:54 AM
Actually my mom was preparing them (I was only 3 or 4 at the time). In hindsight all I remember is having my head and body held under a cold running faucet while screaming.:cross-eyeHow did you even get access to a boiling pan of hot dogs at that age? Well, at least your mom didn't burn your crotch with boiling hot dog water... I am sorry, I have to call it, that's the quote of the day right there. :thumbsup: :D




Now thats terrible.You think that's bad? My late grandfather, when he was a student at UCLA he fell out of the top bunk on a 3-row bunk bed at the UCLA dorm (he kept the newspaper clipping they wrote about it, like it was something to be proud of or something) and landed on an exposed nail... into his testicle, which then had to be removed... the testicle.

darthvyn
12-21-2006, 11:57 AM
Who boils hot dogs? Takes all the flavor out!

unless you boil them in beer... beerdogs are AWESOME. the cheaper the beer the better. pabst and schlitz somehow turn out gourmet beerdogs.

wait, is this the food forum? or the testicle forum? i'm confused...

El Chuxter
12-21-2006, 12:31 PM
Eat 'em raw. Not like they're not processed to hell and back anyway. ;)

Lord Malakite
12-22-2006, 03:08 AM
wait, is this the food forum? or the testicle forum? i'm confused...
As am I at this point.

Who knew Sony's Playstation 3 had the power to generate discussion on the dangers of Wiener water crotch burnings and driving nails into the testicles?:cross-eye

Hehe...Aren't you glad I didn't say Wii-ner water? lol

El Chuxter
12-22-2006, 09:50 AM
Hehe...Aren't you glad I didn't say Wii-ner water? lol

And with that comment, JediTricks became three cents richer.

JediTricks
12-22-2006, 04:33 PM
And with that comment, JediTricks became three cents richer.
Awesome! Now I can afford that house in the Hamptons! :greedy:

jjreason
12-22-2006, 06:56 PM
Eat 'em raw. Not like they're not processed to hell and back anyway. ;)

Now I'M confused... are you talking about the hot dogs or the testicles? :(

El Chuxter
01-10-2007, 11:40 AM
So it looks like the PS3 didn't perform up to expectations, missing Sony's sales goal.

The Wii stomped it. What I find amusing is that the article I read credits this entirely to the Wii controller. I don't suppose the fact that it costs half as much and they produced several times as many had anything to do with that. Nosireebob. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
01-10-2007, 08:42 PM
How could the PS3 not live up to sales? Every single unit in the country is sold-through the moment it arrives even to this day. Granted, they made 1/4th as many PS3s as Nintendo made Wiis, but that shouldn't make a difference since they knew how many they made.

Lord Malakite
01-11-2007, 01:16 AM
How could the PS3 not live up to sales? Every single unit in the country is sold-through the moment it arrives even to this day.
Not as fast as they would like apparantly. Even with the more limited supply compared to Wii I've heard several cases of PS3s found sitting on shelves unsold anywhere from 2 days to nearly a week after arriving at the store (including from one of my brothers who works just across the street from Toys 'R' Us, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, EB, and a few other places that sell games).

The Wii on other hand is gone usually within an hour of each shipment arriving. I'm still sitting around Wii-less waiting to play Twilight Princess. :cry:

SirSteve
01-11-2007, 06:07 AM
I've had my PS3 for a little while and there are a number of issues I have with them. The most recent is the game pauses when the wi-fi connection is lost during Tony Hawk. It seems to do it just on this game and not my others (so far). Annoying to say the least. Oh, and they don't give you an HDMI cable. You have to buy that separate. They hype the high-def aspect and give you an RCA cable. sigh....

Kidhuman
01-11-2007, 07:30 AM
Its because HDMI cables run around 50 + dollars. IF they gave you one, the system would in turn cost 700 dollars. IT is a cost cutting move. The least they could have done though was give component cables(similar to RCA, but for Blue, Red and Green)

Lord Malakite
01-13-2007, 01:12 AM
Oh, and they don't give you an HDMI cable. You have to buy that separate. They hype the high-def aspect and give you an RCA cable. sigh....
Go back a few pages Steve and you'll see that I already griped on that aspect.:D

Val Da Car
01-13-2007, 09:22 AM
Go back a few pages Steve and you'll see that I already griped on that aspect.:D

Here is my delimmea.

42inch Mitsubishi projection TV

HDCP compliant DVI input, 480i/480p/1080i support.

PS3 native 720p.

Get a HDMI to DVI cable for $35 and hope the downscaling and upscaling work ok or go buy a new TV and see the old one?

That is why I returned my PS3.

Kidhuman
01-13-2007, 11:11 AM
The HDMI to DVI works fine except you will get no Audio unless you use the RCA jacks.

The thing with HDMI though is since it has multiple grounds in it, it can run into issues down the road. I would only recommend using a Sony TV with the PS3 since both are Sony issued and therefore should have no issues.

Lord Malakite
01-14-2007, 02:28 AM
I would only recommend using a Sony TV with the PS3 since both are Sony issued and therefore should have no issues.

And all I have to say to Sony and that recommendation is "BS." :rolleyes: The price Sony is asking for the PS3 alone and the HDMI cable seperate is horrendous enough as is without the notion of having to already own or face purchasing replacement "Sony made" products just to use it.

Kidhuman
01-14-2007, 06:40 AM
I only reccommended that becuase of the fact that the groud wires will match up. Other than that screw Sony TV's, they bite.