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SithDroid
02-01-2002, 01:35 AM
I brought this up in another thread, but no one ever seemed to have an answer or any real response, so I'd like to know what you think of my reasoning.

The midichlorian thing does not make any sense. Qui-Gon described it to Anakin as "microscopic lifeforms that reside within all LIVING cells". The key here is living. If something is destroyed, let us say to make plastic, then the cells are no longer living. And if the midichlorians talk to each other and tell each other what to do, then the "Force" should only be able to work on organic or living material. Hence the Jedi's being able to use the Force to grab their Lightsaber is totally false. I'm just trying to look at it from a scientific point of view. That is why I never liked the idea of the whole midichlorian thing. It's not consistent with science. George should have just left it as Yoda originally explained it in ESB. So far the prequel is turning out to have more holes in the plot than a piece of swiss cheese. Anyone agree here?

Rollo Tomassi
02-01-2002, 08:13 AM
The only Jedi who ever talked about midichlorians was Jinn and you'll notice he wasn't on the council. Coincidence? I think not...

Wolfwood319
02-01-2002, 10:56 AM
Yippeeee...another Midichlorean thread!:crazed:

I just thought of Midichloreans as a plot device to show how strong in the force Anakin is, mind you, it was a bad one. I don't think Lucas expected it to get blown out of proportion as it did.

You could have the other two movies go on without any mention of midichloreans, and I don't think too many people would mind.

2-1B
02-01-2002, 11:41 AM
I do not like the inclusion of the midichlorians in the SW saga.

However, Sithdroid, the idea behind the midichlorians is that they create the energy field, which then surrounds even nonliving things. And it is through this field that things can be manipulated.

A Jedi's weapon exists within this field, and so it can be moved through the use of the force.

Fulit
02-01-2002, 12:09 PM
There is the distinct possibility that Qui-Gon was nothing more than a fruitcake with crazy ideas who filled Anakin's head up with all kinds of nonsense. Who knows what else he told him on the ride to Coruscant? The Jedi Council just tolerated him like you tolerate your crazy cousin, because you have to.

bigbarada
02-01-2002, 07:35 PM
Even if Qui-Gonn was the only one who believed in midichlorians, Obi-Wan still recognized their significance when Qui-Gonn reported Anakin's count. He even knew offhand Yoda's midichlorian count. However, the Jedi Council seemed less than impressed with the news of Anakin's count.

The "midi-counter" on the Queen's starship could easily be explained away as a medical diagnostic computer which could detect many different substances in the body. Midichlorians just happened to be one of them.

Obi-Don
02-02-2002, 06:58 AM
I hated the whole idea. I guess it was GLs way to give us the idea that Anakin is powerfull like Wolfwood319 said. It was a bad,bad idea and I just choose to forget about it.I go with Yoda's point of view.

sith_killer_99
02-02-2002, 11:42 PM
Midi-WHAT?

:D

See, easy as pie!:)

stillakid
02-04-2002, 10:08 AM
Don't get me started. :D

If we could weigh the threads that discuss this very issue, I think it would come to 2.7 metric tons.

You're right, Midi's make no sense at all when viewed in relation to everything GL set up himself in the original trilogy. You will hear many claims, and snake-oil pitchman trying to rationalize their existence, but all of those arguments inevitably come down to the insistence that it's GL's movie and he can do whatever he wants with it, continuity be-damned. Afterall, he can "fix" the OT later on for the DVD release.

Luke: "The Force?"
Old Ben: "Well, the Force is what gives the Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together. Oh, and the only way to control it is if you have enough Midichlorian's in your blood. If you don't have enough, no amount of training will ever allow you to be a Jedi. Here, let's check your blood."

Old Ben whips out his Midi-checker even though he secretly knows that Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker, the Jedi who was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force and became Darth Vader. Of course, we'll all know that because the secret will be given away in the prequels thus destroying any sense of drama or mystery in ESB or ROTJ.

mabudonicus
02-05-2002, 03:38 PM
......the whole medi cloriants thing stunk. What Caesar said is true,too I think. The energy field can have effects on pretty much anything, matter or energy(something else which is debatably "alive"), and supposedly(trust me, I hate it too,but..) the midachlariens just form as some type of interface between the cells of someones body and the omnipresent energy field that is the Force. However, the whole x-files secret blood sample how come no-one else ever mentioned this ever, and how does it really help to realize something which,still,at its core,doesn't make any real "scientific" sense anyway nature of the whole thing just smacks of gl trying to show that he's smarter than all of his fans put together, and that the movies were "way more complicated than he let on back then" GMAB......AFB!!

SithDroid
02-06-2002, 12:45 PM
O.K. also one other thing I was thinking about. GL has to O.K. all of the EU stuff. Since he is the one that gives it the O.K., then how come he can decide to just mess everything up. GL never did any research about the EU OR the OT when he wrote TPM. He should have had consultants on the script, actual people who know a lot about the EU universe and the OT. Because GL never did any research we have all these inconsistencies. For example the creatures that repel the force in the Heir to the Empire series. So then do they not have any midichlorians in them, or are they EVIL midichlorians? Granted I don't know a whole lot about the EU, but GL didn't even bother to think about it which is why TPM turned out to be such a disappointment. I hope AOTC is a lot better and hopefully we'll hear no mention of midichlorians and hopefully someday we'll see a Special Edition of TPM where all the references to them have been cut. I've stated before how it can be done easily, but I don't want to get into that right now.

2-1B
02-06-2002, 12:50 PM
Different storylines / histories are part of the EU deal. It has been established that they are not "canon", so the films can always contradict it.

I'm not an EU fan, but it is unfortunate that this is the reality. I would not care for the lack of continuity in some of these areas.

JediTricks
02-07-2002, 02:44 AM
Actually, Lucas Licensing approves all EU stuff, not Lucas himself, and the approval doesn't mean it's canon, its only ensuring it doesn't step on other toes and doesn't make Star Wars look bad. Lucas sees very little of the EU and supposedly doesn't care about it at all.

Rollo Tomassi
02-07-2002, 05:35 PM
Can The Phantom Menace be EU? It obviously didn't make it to Lucas Licensing because it conflicts with previously established "facts." I think it's easier to toss out one movie than 30+ books worth of continuity...:D :happy:

JEDIpartner
02-08-2002, 11:36 AM
You have a point there...

But then again... there's the Holiday Special and those two Ewok movies... the "Droids" and "Ewoks" series... oh... the list is endless. Most of the bad stuff really started to happen AFTER ROTJ came out! Ooooohhh! It was a sign!:(

Rollo Tomassi
02-08-2002, 11:58 AM
Well, I think there was a definite schism between the EU that came out before Zahn's trilogy and the stuff afterwards. When Lucas Licensing gave the okay to do post-ROJ fiction, they really took the bull by the horns and said:

"Look. We're not going to have conflicting stories like "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" and the Marvel Comics and the cartoons and the Holiday special. Everything is going to tie into everything else and it will all "confirm" the other fiction."

So Dark Horse and Bantam/Spectra and Del Rey and the Video Games all mesh. I really admire Lucas Licensing recognizing that the fans would be aware of inconsistencies and tried for the most part to deal with that issue from the start. it's made for a more solid, cohesive EU in my opinion.

stillakid
02-08-2002, 12:12 PM
Hey, if everything would just revolve around Life Day, the world would be a better place. :sur:

Darth Mojhaan
02-28-2002, 10:19 PM
One thing that that intriged me the most about the OT was that it was a combination of science and spirituality. I have always viewed the force from a spiritual point of view, but now with the discussion of midichlorans, it is turning into an all scientific universe with nothing to believe in. Also,...everything that happens in the OT was either coincidental, or predestined. If midichlorins was to exist, then I guess everything was coincedental!

Vader: "Your destiny lies with me young Skywalker!"

Luke: "...no!"

Vader: "Obi-Wan knew it to be true. Your midchlorins led you here to rule with me!"

Luke: "No!" Luke backs further away realizing that his jedi master did not tell him the truth...that the force truly did not exist. "That is not possible!"

Vader: "Search your midichlorans, you know it to be true!":crazed: :crazed:

Pendo
03-01-2002, 11:03 AM
I see midichlorians as something that some Jedi believe and some do not.

The best way I can describe it is like the universe. Some scientists believe that the universe will continue to expand forever, and never stop.
But some believe that it will expand to a certain poin then contract, then the big band will occur again and the universe will expand, the contract, etc....

Also like how scientists believe that man evolved from ape, but religious people believe the "Adam and Eve" story in the Bible.

So maybe some Jedi, such as Qui-Gon, believe the scientific 'midichlorian' theory, whereas other Jedi, maybe Obi-Wan, believe the more spiritual side.


PENDO!

P.S. I forgot the word which describes the opposite of expand. A friend told me it was contract so if it is wrong i'm sorry but you know what i mean...

stillakid
03-01-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Pendo
I see midichlorians as something that some Jedi believe and some do not.

The best way I can describe it is like the universe. Some scientists believe that the universe will continue to expand forever, and never stop.
But some believe that it will expand to a certain poin then contract, then the big band will occur again and the universe will expand, the contract, etc....

Also like how scientists believe that man evolved from ape, but religious people believe the "Adam and Eve" story in the Bible.

So maybe some Jedi, such as Qui-Gon, believe the scientific 'midichlorian' theory, whereas other Jedi, maybe Obi-Wan, believe the more spiritual side.


PENDO!

P.S. I forgot the word which describes the opposite of expand. A friend told me it was contract so if it is wrong i'm sorry but you know what i mean...


But TPM explanation makes Midi's a "measurable" entity...not a theory. In the prequel world, Midi's are an accepted scientific/biological fact, unlike a religious belief that can't be measured or tested. As previous tomes of discussion mentioned before, Midi's simply disrupt the continuity of the OT universe for a variety of reasons and don't belong anywhere. It was a mistake made by GL because he isn't a good enough writer to think through the problems. Oh well.

LTBasker
03-01-2002, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by SithDroid
I brought this up in another thread, but no one ever seemed to have an answer or any real response, so I'd like to know what you think of my reasoning.

The midichlorian thing does not make any sense. Qui-Gon described it to Anakin as "microscopic lifeforms that reside within all LIVING cells". The key here is living. If something is destroyed, let us say to make plastic, then the cells are no longer living. And if the midichlorians talk to each other and tell each other what to do, then the "Force" should only be able to work on organic or living material. Hence the Jedi's being able to use the Force to grab their Lightsaber is totally false. I'm just trying to look at it from a scientific point of view. That is why I never liked the idea of the whole midichlorian thing. It's not consistent with science. George should have just left it as Yoda originally explained it in ESB. So far the prequel is turning out to have more holes in the plot than a piece of swiss cheese. Anyone agree here?

Actually I don't care about the midichlorian thing or not, but there is an error there. The midichlorians reside within all LIVING cells of the BODIES, and the force itself as Obi-Wan put is bound from all living life-forms, not just midichlorians. Or something along those lines. :D But basically if you combine Qui's midichlorian statement and Obi-Wan & Yoda's force teachings, you'll probably be able to find where they meet eye to eye. :cool:

Personally though, I think midichlorians are just something that are there and later on the Jedi figured they don't really matter because "It's not the size of the count that matters, but the way you use it." :D

stillakid
03-01-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker

Personally though, I think midichlorians are just something that are there and later on the Jedi figured they don't really matter because "It's not the size of the count that matters, but the way you use it." :D


This gets to my biggest point of all: why they were never mentioned in the OT. If the Jedi are on the verge of dying out, and Luke is the final realistic hope, and time is of the essence in his training, then wouldn't it logically follow that his teachers would tell him upfront that there are Midichlorian's in him that can help "feel" the Force. Instead they use a lot of vague descriptions and encourage him to figure it all out for himself, thus wasting extraordinary amounts of time while the Emperor and Vader lay waste to the galaxy.

Think of it this way: Imagine you're trapped in a burning room with a friend and the only way out is through a locked door. You know where the key is, but instead of telling your friend where the key is, you just tell him to open the door. He tries and fails at first of course, because it's locked. "You must unlock the door, reach out and feel the knob in your hand," you mystically tell him. Eventually he'll get ****ed and ask you where the damn key is, but by then you would've both burned to ashes.

Pendo
03-01-2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Think of it this way: Imagine you're trapped in a burning room with a friend and the only way out is through a locked door. You know where the key is, but instead of telling your friend where the key is, you just tell him to open the door. He tries and fails at first of course, because it's locked. "You must unlock the door, reach out and feel the knob in your hand," you mystically tell him. Eventually he'll get ****ed and ask you where the damn key is, but by then you would've both burned to ashes.

But not knowing about midichlorians isn't going to burn you! I don't think knowing about them is important, and it probably has more chance at confusing Luke about the force if he did know about them.

PENDO!

stillakid
03-01-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Pendo


But not knowing about midichlorians isn't going to burn you! I don't think knowing about them is important, and it probably has more chance at confusing Luke about the force if he did know about them.

PENDO!


The burning metaphor doesn't refer back to knowledge of Midichlorians, rather it refers to the impending doom of letting the Sith take over the galaxy.

How could it confuse Luke? We're only confused as an audience because the concept came out of left field and didn't mesh with anything we'd known previously. As a new element to his learning, it isn't hard to figure out at all. "Talk to the symbiotic organisms swimming around in your blood and they'll help you "feel" the Force." How hard is that to get? And it only took a moment to say. Little kids get it (which is the REAL reason GL put it in the movie). The road to learning could have been a much straighter line and far more productive had his teachers used a tangible element like midichlorian's. But they didn't. And this is only one facet of many of why Midi's don't belong.:)

SithDroid
03-01-2002, 01:02 PM
GL said somewhere that midichlorians were the idea the whole time. I don't believe this for one minute. If it was then he should have included it in the OT. Also if it was the idea all along and the Special Edtion of the OT was to make SW as GL had envisioned it, then why didn't he add a scene or two then about the midiclorians and cut the references Yoda made about the force? Surely he could have found a way to do it. I believe that this whole midichlorian idea came about recently when he started writing TPM. It was a horrible move on his part. GL was never that great of a writer in the first place. I mean take a look at the ORIGINAL draft of SW. It was horrible. He had other people help tweak some of the rough spots. Hopefully AOTC will be a lot better than TPM because he had a co-writer on it. I believe the only reason he add midichlorians was because he thought that SW fans wanted to know more about the force, but obviously GL overlooked the rule that "less is more" and should have left it more mysterious. Same thing goes for Boba Fett in the prequels. We are going to get to see a lot more of him and find out more as well. I liked the whole mystery of the character and now IMO that will be ruined. Oh well, as long as the OT doesn't get messed with in the future then I will be fine. As for AOTC, it isn't my number one movie to see this year. Spiderman IMO sounds much more apealing.

stillakid
03-01-2002, 01:05 PM
Everything you said, Sithdroid, I'm with you 100%.