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General_Grievous
01-06-2007, 07:25 PM
I was watching the whole Prequel Trilogy (No, the OT did not follow that viewing. Throw stones if you must.) the other night, and came to the conclusion that the whole purpose of Jar Jar's character was to present Palpatine with emergency powers in AOTC, thus starting the Clone Wars and the beginning of the Empire. I was thinking how much better it could have been if it was Bail Organa who had given the Chancellor the emergency powers. His character could have originally wanted to end any Separatist threat by bringing them to justice for the safety of the Republic. Because of this, he could have worked up the courage to urge the Senate to give Palpatine emergency powers. As the Clone Wars went on and more and more lives lost, Bail could have felt an immense amount of guilt. He would think to himself "What have I done?" and regret his decision about the emergency powers. It could have been that because of this reason, he started the Delegation of 2,000 with Padme and Mon Mothma to urge Palpatine to end the war. It could have been that because of this, the beginnings of the Rebellion could have been born. It would have been so much better this way, and could have opened up a lot of character development for Bail, but unfortunately, it was decided to have the big goofy bastage propose the emergency powers and then just drop out of the picture. Damn shame.

Kidhuman
01-06-2007, 07:37 PM
Dude, after seeing TPM, I came to the conclusion that JJB wasnt needed at all. Sorry it took you almost 8 years

General_Grievous
01-06-2007, 07:41 PM
:D

Well, I was never a fan of Jar Jar in the first place, KH. It's not like he was completely useless (he did lead the Jedi to Theed), but it really should have been Bail in his place in AOTC. It also would have been better if his character was serious, like if they replaced him with Captain Tarpals, for example, TPM would have been a much better movie.

Kidhuman
01-06-2007, 08:08 PM
Much agreed on the Bail thing, it would have given him a sense of ambition to start the rebellion as he could have felt like he betrayed his people and friends.

JarJAr could have been a serious, but still slightly funny addition instead of the crappy kid friendly Goofy wannabe jerkloving pice of carp that he turned out to be

bigbarada
01-06-2007, 08:36 PM
I think Jimmy Smits would have sounded silly delivering lines like "Ex-squeeze me!" or "How wude!"

Rocketboy
01-06-2007, 08:53 PM
But who would have stepped in the poop and the hilarity of the "Icky icky poo!" that followed?

Qui-Gon was a pretty pointless character also.

Bobby Fett
01-06-2007, 10:34 PM
Dude, after seeing TPM, I came to the conclusion that JJB wasnt needed at all. Sorry it took you almost 8 years

I heartily disagree. JJB was needed in TPM to distract us from the pee-poor acting of Jake Lloyd.

Yippee! :cry: :cry:

CaptainSolo1138
01-06-2007, 10:57 PM
Qui-Gon was a pretty pointless character also.
TPM was a pointless movie. It's too bad a mod wasn't around to merge TPM and AotC.

General_Grievous
01-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Qui-Gon was a pretty pointless character also.

And yet he was the best actor in the movie. Ironic, isn't it? Darth Maul was pointless, too, but he made for a cool villain.

bigbarada
01-06-2007, 11:26 PM
TPM was a pointless movie. It's too bad a mod wasn't around to merge TPM and AotC.

They were all pointless, since they created more questions at the end of it all than they answered.

We got some nice toys and couple of cool vehicles that need to be made into toys (ahem.... AT-TE), but other than that they're irrelevant.

El Chuxter
01-07-2007, 01:24 AM
TPM should have been five lines of dialogue near the beginning of AOTC. This would have allowed ROTS to be the two movies it should have been for any sort of believable transition from greatest hero to most evil villain.

Unfortunately, this would have necessitated eliminating both Maul and Qui-Gon. Though not strictly necessary to the series, they're two of the few high points of the prequel trilogy.

I doubt Jar Jar was originally planned to give Palpatine emergency powers. Despite his continuous lying about it, Lucas hadn't thought that far ahead.

Jar Jar should have done a lot more in AOTC and ROTS. Lucas tried to downplay him after the backlash (again, despite his constant lying). Some sort of maturation and heroic end was absolutely needed to provide a payoff for the string of fart jokes. Instead, like C-3PBattleDroid, there's no point to him.

bigbarada
01-07-2007, 01:38 AM
For proper dramatic effect, I always thought that Anakin should turn to the darkside at the end of Ep2. This way, the opening of Ep3 would have Obi-Wan hunting down Anakin to kill him.

Instead we get two movies that were a complete waste of time and the entire story crammed into the last hour of ROTS.

El Chuxter
01-07-2007, 01:41 AM
Yeah, my main complaint with ROTS was that the plot was essentially. "Hey, I'm such a great guy! I'm so nice and everything's wonderful, la la la la la. I had a bad dream. What if my wife dies? Ah, I think I'll go kill a bunch of kids now." Such a major shift and the ramifications of it needed far more screen time. Instead we got the eye candy of General Grievous.

stillakid
01-07-2007, 03:36 AM
I was watching the whole Prequel Trilogy...

I was thinking how much better it could have ...

It could have been...

It could have been...

It would have been so much better...

Damn shame.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

mabudonicus
01-07-2007, 09:13 AM
LMAO I was reading through this just waiting for the Stilla take, and you did NOT disappoint man :D

Agreed with Chux's take, TPM could have been the first few seconds of the PT, hell, the opening crawl could have explained more than 2-plus hours managed to in TPM

And bigbarada, also agreed, the PT overall made more questions than it did supply answers (most inportant- was that REALLY 21-B?!?!??!?!?) and on a funny side note- since getting my own copy I have NEVER been able to remain awake for the entire ROTS film and have tried several times- as others have said elsewheres even AOTC (and I have the vhs version, double whammy) is damn near unwatchable anymore, whereas I can watch any of the OT at the drop of a hat and be totally pleased despite knowing damn near everything that happens in any of 'em...

But I gotta say, I DO love my Jar Jar mask :beard:Isobaws&

Luuuuuuke
01-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Yeah, my main complaint with ROTS was that the plot was essentially. "Hey, I'm such a great guy! I'm so nice and everything's wonderful, la la la la la. I had a bad dream. What if my wife dies? Ah, I think I'll go kill a bunch of kids now." Such a major shift and the ramifications of it needed far more screen time. Instead we got the eye candy of General Grievous.

I had not thought of this, but that is exactly true. ROTS does not establish Anakin/Vader as a great villain so much as a whack-job child murderer/domestic abuser. It's way too sudden.

I also agree with the suggestion that by ROTS Anakin could have started as an outright villain, the battle between the remaining Jedis and the Sith being the core of the movie, climaxing with Obi Wan's defeat of Anakin and his transformation into the black-clad Vader.

Let's face it: As far as the prequels are concerned, the toys are definitely better than the movies.

Droid
01-07-2007, 12:34 PM
They could have had Qui-Gon and Darth Maul and not had Jar Jar. Lucas could have written the prequels just about any way he wanted within the confines of the few lines of dialogue in the original trilogy that set down some parameters. We did not need to see how Palpatine got emergency powers or find out how the Jedi got to Theed. That was not required of the prequel trilogy. That was required once Lucas starting writing the prequels. It's funny how he got so bogged down in made up stuff like the chosen one and "always two there are" that didn't have to be there but negelected stuff like establishing Anakin and Obi-wan as friends, Owen not taking with Anakin's ideals, Obi-wan "taking it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi because he believed he could do it just as well as Yoda" or Leia knowing her mother.

And speaking of training as well as Yoda. There is nothing in the prequels to support the original trilogy representation that Obi-wan had been reckless, angry or arrogant enough to believe he could train Anakin as well as Yoda. The Obi-wan in the prequels is perfect and humble as the day is long (though a tad grouchy).

There did not have to be just two Sith. They didn't have to say the Sith had been extinct for 1,000 years. They could have had Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Obi-wan, Yoda and many other Jedi fighting with Sith including Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus and Darths that we never saw. Sidious could have made his power play in the middle of that fight.

And didn't you think at least once in the prequels they would have Obi-wan go by Ben?

bigbarada
01-07-2007, 03:20 PM
The ages of the characters didn't match up either. Obi-Wan and Anakin were waaaay too young at the end of Ep3 to properly match up with their characters in the OT.

The Obi-Wan of Ep3 should have been the very first Obi-Wan we saw in Ep1. He should have been in his early 50s by Ep3. Anakin should have been in his early to mid-30s by the end of Ep3.

I remember Lucas saying that Anakin had to be so young in Ep1 because it would be more traumatic when he was taken from his mother. Did it ever occur to Lucas that Vader could have been just as imposing a villian without being an intergalactic mamma's boy?

Yoda was probably one of the biggest disappointments of the prequels. Aside from turning into a ninja-frog, his character experienced zero growth over three films. He could have been one of the most interesting characters in the series, but was really no more than a plot device.

Imagine if Yoda had been the Jedi librarian in Ep1 and 2, someone who none of the other Jedis really took seriously and who could seem a little childish at times (more in line with his character in ESB). But it was up to him to step up to the plate during the Clone Wars and eventually face Darth Sidious. Imagine the dramatic tension it would create if a Jocasta Nu type character had been the only surviving Jedi and it was up to that character to attempt to take out Palpatine? The unlikely hero, who has no chances of success, but still tries regardless. That's the stuff that great drama is made of.

Unfortunately we didn't get any of that.

Kidhuman
01-07-2007, 04:25 PM
Actually, I think Yoda being in exile and having little to no communication at all is what made him loopy.

bigbarada
01-07-2007, 06:05 PM
That's just poor storytelling to have the greatest change in a character's personality take place offscreen. Luke changed quite a bit between films, but the three most life-changing events in his life happened in front of the audience (seeing the burned corpses of Owen and Beru, watching Ben die, and Vader's revelation)

Yoda's pretty boring in the prequels, he knows everything, he's never wrong, he's always in control and he never loses (except when the plot requires it). THere's no drama in that and it makes him a very 2-dimensional character.

Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda are the main characters in the prequels. They are the three who are absolutely necessary for telling the story. But it seems that Lucas only really attempted to develop one of them, and even that was just two films of meandering around, then trying to fit everything into the last movie.

2-1B
01-07-2007, 08:13 PM
The movies might not have needed Jar Jar but the audience did. :love:


Instead we get two movies that were a complete waste of time and the entire story crammed into the last hour of ROTS.

Funny that you wasted your time defending them for so long, then. lol lol lol

bigbarada
01-07-2007, 08:24 PM
Funny that you wasted your time defending them for so long, then. lol lol lol

I know, six years I won't get back.:( I had been holding out hope that Lucas knew what he was doing and everything would make perfect sense after Ep3. Well, when the credits rolled on ROTS, I learned that I was wrong and George Lucas had been full of crap after all.

Droid
01-07-2007, 09:30 PM
I really think Yoda was just pretending to be loopy for Luke's benefit.

I agree the prequels should have been a story of relationships against the backdrop of some great action.

I say that the prequels should have been about three relationships: Anakin's with Owen, Anakin's with Obi-wan, and Anakin's with Palpatine. He would have left the farm to join Obi-wan to achieve greater glory and would make the same choice to leave Obi-wan for Palpatine to achieve greater glory.

Anakin's relationship with Obi-wan would mirror Obi-wan's relationship with Yoda as both should have been a depiction of a student rebelling against the restrictions placed on him by his teacher. Yoda would be a successful teacher and Obi-wan would make the correct decision to follow the teachings of his master while Obi-wan would be a terrible teacher and Anakin would make the poor decision to ignore Obi-wan's teachings.

Anakin's parents would not have been an issue.

Another important relationship would have been Anakin's with Luke and Leia's mother.

The prequels we got did not effectively show the relationship between any of these characters. Much happened off screen and people's motivations changed without any rationale being given.

And to get back to the point of this thread, Jar Jar. Man what a bad idea.

JimJamBonds
01-08-2007, 11:17 AM
I came to the conclusion that JJB wasnt needed at all. Sorry it took you almost 8 years

What did I ever do to honk you off jerkface? :D

JediTricks
01-08-2007, 05:49 PM
What does Jar Jar actually do?

- Leads the Jedi to the Gungans.
- Helps bridge the Naboo and the Gungans, which leads the Gungans to draw the Battle Droids out of Theed giving the audience the only "Star Wars" part of Episode I.
- Accepts Padme's senatorial powers, leading to...
- Is hamfistedly manipulated into voting Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers. So what of that is actually necessary?
- Do the Jedi need to be led to the Gungans? No, they could have made their way to Theed without the trip through the "planet core", there's even a storyboard with Obi-Wan stealing a STAP (which would have been way cooler).

- Do the Naboo need the Gungans? No, since they were a creation of the script, it could have been any group that distracted the Trade Federation. Or better yet, the Naboo people themselves could have fought the Trade Federation in Theed, or started uprisings in the internment camps which caused the distraction.

- Did Palpatine need Jar Jar specifically to vote him those powers? No, as a Sith Lord he could have manipulated any number of people to give him those powers, either through political machinations or through the Force.

In other words, Jar Jar is not necessary at all.


Lucas has said Eps 1 and 2 are each 20% of the prequel story and Ep 3 is 60%, I'd say he's overvaluing Ep 1 for sure, and cramming all the story into Ep 3 to the point where there's just actions without reasons for them.


But who would have stepped in the poop and the hilarity of the "Icky icky poo!" that followed?

Qui-Gon was a pretty pointless character also.The line is actually "icky icky goo".

Qui-Gon is so pointless that most drafts of Ep 1 he's not in it.



TPM should have been five lines of dialogue near the beginning of AOTC. Totally agree, I've always felt that way. All they needed to do was say how Obi-Wan found Anakin and how Palpatine came to power.


Unfortunately, this would have necessitated eliminating both Maul and Qui-Gon. Though not strictly necessary to the series, they're two of the few high points of the prequel trilogy.Maul is a non-entity, he's Darth Action Figure, he could have been put in AOTC or ROTS just as easily.

stillakid
01-08-2007, 06:13 PM
Totally agree, I've always felt that way. All they needed to do was say how Obi-Wan found Anakin and how Palpatine came to power.



I disagree with that. While the larger canvas of the saga was about a large scale galactic conflict, the personal story of redemption that mirrored the larger story was that of Anakin's fall from grace. In the same way that this Republic was seemingly solid on the outside, Anakin too needed to appear on screen in the beginning as someone to admire. A hero perhaps. Not a shoehorned fake one, but a real character who audiences would look at and say, "yeah, I'd like to hang out with or be that guy."

It doesn't take long to establish that kind of character. In the hands of a skilled writer, an audience can be onboard within minutes of the screen lighting up. So in the first 20 minutes of our hypothetical Episode I, we could easily meet Anakin Skywalker, witness his skill at piloting, and all while another character named Obi Wan witnesses along with us. Later, when Obi Wan needs someone like Anakin, we watch Obi Wan's own arrogance cause trouble as he believes he can teach Anakin just as well as his own mentor taught him.

The blueprints for an excellent Prequel Trilogy are all there expertly laid out by Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan. George just chose to ignore his own story, that's all. If he had any sense of artistic justice in him, he'd donate five-hundred million of his 64 billion to someone else to remake the Prequels as they should have been. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to tell the story. It just takes someone who can pay attention and not get caught up by blinky lights and primary colors.

JediTricks
01-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I disagree with that. While the larger canvas of the saga was about a large scale galactic conflict, the personal story of redemption that mirrored the larger story was that of Anakin's fall from grace. In the same way that this Republic was seemingly solid on the outside, Anakin too needed to appear on screen in the beginning as someone to admire. A hero perhaps. Not a shoehorned fake one, but a real character who audiences would look at and say, "yeah, I'd like to hang out with or be that guy."Which they could have done by briefly explaining via dialogue how Obi-Wan found him and then showing throughout the new first movie Anakin to be a virtuous guy who starts his fall from grace - how does that differ from what I said prior?

Droid
01-08-2007, 07:14 PM
I think showing Anakin and Obi-wan meet is very important. It should have happened and been a big part of Episode I. As it was, Anakin and Obi-wan are on screen together probably less then ten minutes in Episode I.

I think a lot of people in this thread think in terms of how what Lucas did could have been changed to work differently, whereas I really think the whole thing in no way matched up with the story as it needed to be.

There didn't have to be a Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Shmi, Jar Jar, Naboo, Gungans, Battle Droids, pod racing, or a Trade Federation. All of that should have been window dressing around the story laid out by the original trilogy and thrown out if it got in the way of the back story described in the original trilogy. Instead that story was contradicted and ignored to try to tell a story that was not half as good or interesting as the one described in the original trilogy.

And another thing, how much of Episode II was a waste given that Padme and Anakin's love felt forced. If such a poor job was going to be done in showing why they loved each other why not just have Anakin married when Obi-wan finds him in Episode I. They could have still had that be the reason Anakin couldn't get Yoda sanctioned training. There did not have to be a love story in the prequels at all. And they could have just said - Hello, I'm Anakin and this is my wife. " We all would have believed he loved her.

stillakid
01-08-2007, 08:17 PM
And another thing, how much of Episode II was a waste given that Padme and Anakin's love felt forced. If such a poor job was going to be done in showing why they loved each other why not just have Anakin married when Obi-wan finds him in Episode I. They could have still had that be the reason Anakin couldn't get Yoda sanctioned training. There did not have to be a love story in the prequels at all. And they could have just said - Hello, I'm Anakin and this is my wife. " We all would have believed he loved her.

I'm with you on that one. Lucas clearly decided that this issue of Anakin "losing" the ones whom he loved (mom, Padme) was going to be THE catalyst for him to turn to the darkside. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the OT doesn't give any clues as to what really was to motivate Anakin to become Darth Vader (beyond Vader being "seduced" by the darkside), but this issue of loss wasn't incredibly convincing, certainly not enough to propel a decent likable guy to become something arguably worse than Hitler.

For what it's worth, my own motivation had I written the story would have been far more political in nature. As in, Anakin is an upstanding government employee. An A personality type, yet that guy who everyone likes. Then while in the midst of just doing his job, he is witness to growing internal corruption that he feels powerless to combat (lest he lose his own job). In some cool action sequence (befitting the real Star Wars), we (and Obi Wan for some reason) witness his piloting skills which are suspciously "Force" laden. Anakin himself doesn't realize what makes him a good pilot, but Obi Wan does.

Meanwhile, Senator Palpatine is stirring the pot and making the situation in the Republic more fragile. The corruption compels some star systems to rebel thus the Jedi are needed (guardians of peace and justice). They need more Jedi to combat the problem (as they see it) so Obi Wan goes out to recruit. Remembering Anakin, he goes and finds the guy and his wife. He convinces Anakin to come and train as a Jedi. Anakin is eager to fix the problem of corruption and return the galaxy to it's once proud self. The Jedi don't have much time to train newcomers while they are fighting a war, so Obi Wan takes it upon himself to teach Anakin.

During training, Palpatine crosses paths with Anakin and the Senator realizes Anakin's potential. He is headstrong, idealistic, and rash. His passion for a cause is easily manipulated toward building the Republic in Palpatine's image. Anakin "falls" at roughly the same stage in his training that Luke does years later. The final nail in the coffin of his soul is when he leaves his wife to go out and fight at the behest of Palpatine. Prior to leaving his home, he and his wife make love which unknowingly to him, is the moment of conception of the twins.

Obi Wan realizes that he has lost "control" over his student and goes out into the galaxy to reel him back in. The attempt is unsuccessful and the two fight an epic duel which leaves Anakin for dead. Obi Wan and the audience leave Anakin to die and Obi goes to tell Anakin's wife what happened. She sobs (naturally) and tells Obi Wan that she is pregnant. Not that she has twins (because she doesn't know yet), just that she is pregnant. Credits roll.

What that simple setup gives us is an idealistic man (not whiny boy) thrust into the middle of a galactic conflict before he is emotionally ready to deal with it. We also are led to believe at the end of the story that he is dead. We also knows that his wife is pregnant (cliffhanger). We don't know that Anakin lives nor is there any hint that he is behind any mask until Episode V. The only "mystery" that can't be hidden from view very well is that of Yoda's identity, which is played for the "surprise" in ESB. That's a minor issue compared to everything else, so it's a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things. We might question what Old Ben is talking about in ANH when he explains that he trained a "young Jedi named Darth Vader," but that itself sets up an interesting "cliffhanger" mystery that ANH didn't really have before. Suddenly instead of just being a story about Luke's Dad dying, we can leave the theater wondering what Ben is talking about.

The story is very simple to write and the outline is right there in the OT for all to see. I didn't invent anything really that exists outside the bounds of established continuity.

stillakid
01-08-2007, 08:25 PM
Which they could have done by briefly explaining via dialogue how Obi-Wan found him and then showing throughout the new first movie Anakin to be a virtuous guy who starts his fall from grace - how does that differ from what I said prior?

I'm not sure how to answer that question directly, except to say that you suggested that the audience does not have to see the two of them actually meet. I disagree with that. We've already heard the story that Obi Wan found Anakin (in ROTJ), so now it's time to see it happen. That establishes Anakin in a universe separate from all the elements that will converge to interrupt the life he has. "Talking" about something that happened is very sitcom. Actually seeing it happen then witnessing the ramifications is cinematic.

Lucas's biggest failing in TPM was to think that by just telling the audience how great Ani was that we'd just buy into it and accept that he was special. Somewhere Lucas himself clearly didn't believe his own strategy which is why Midichlrians were invented..."see, now we can MEASURE how special he is." Anyhow, the point is that the more we can actually watch and the less we have to be told, the better. Joining the Obi Wan/Anakin relationship "in progress" is exactly like jumping into the beginning of AOTC. It was forced and contrived and very few people bought into it. We don't know what kind of guy Anakin is without the influence of Obi Wan, the Jedi, or anything else on him and we really have to to understand the tragedy that is to follow. We got that view of Luke and we need the same of Anakin. A simple cop-out explanation in a scroll isn't enough.

Droid
01-08-2007, 09:34 PM
Lucas's biggest failing in TPM was to think that by just telling the audience how great Ani was that we'd just buy into it and accept that he was special.

I think his biggest failing might have been nicknaming Anakin SKywalker Annie. They never called Leia "Lay" or Luke "Lou" or Jabba "Jab" or Admiral Ackbar "Ack" or Governor Tarkin "Tar."

Every time they referred to him they should have called him "Anakin". I hate that Annie garbage.

The suns'll come out tomorrow... bet you're bottom credit that tomorrow, there'll be suns...

Rocketboy
01-08-2007, 09:37 PM
Artoo.
Threepio.
Chewie.

JediTricks
01-09-2007, 08:42 PM
I think showing Anakin and Obi-wan meet is very important. It should have happened and been a big part of Episode I. As it was, Anakin and Obi-wan are on screen together probably less then ten minutes in Episode I.

I think a lot of people in this thread think in terms of how what Lucas did could have been changed to work differently, whereas I really think the whole thing in no way matched up with the story as it needed to be.I feel the same way, the story Lucas delivered doesn't cut it at all, their meeting in Ep 1 is a joke and there's no reason to show THAT. I was merely saying that if we're stuck with Lucas' prequel history points, then it's not worth our time to see it, just say it and move on.



There didn't have to be a Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Shmi, Jar Jar, Naboo, Gungans, Battle Droids, pod racing, or a Trade Federation. All of that should have been window dressing around the story laid out by the original trilogy and thrown out if it got in the way of the back story described in the original trilogy. Instead that story was contradicted and ignored to try to tell a story that was not half as good or interesting as the one described in the original trilogy.There was a thread way back in the day about changing Ep 1, I came up with a very different Ep 1 with only a few pieces that Lucas came up with it, it was very satisfying personally but ultimately just a rough outline of fanfic. I actually just found it, so I'll include it below...



And another thing, how much of Episode II was a waste given that Padme and Anakin's love felt forced. If such a poor job was going to be done in showing why they loved each other why not just have Anakin married when Obi-wan finds him in Episode I. They could have still had that be the reason Anakin couldn't get Yoda sanctioned training. There did not have to be a love story in the prequels at all. And they could have just said - Hello, I'm Anakin and this is my wife. " We all would have believed he loved her.Yeah, that Ep 2 love story stunk up the screen for far too long.



I'm with you on that one. Lucas clearly decided that this issue of Anakin "losing" the ones whom he loved (mom, Padme) was going to be THE catalyst for him to turn to the darkside. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the OT doesn't give any clues as to what really was to motivate Anakin to become Darth Vader (beyond Vader being "seduced" by the darkside), but this issue of loss wasn't incredibly convincing, certainly not enough to propel a decent likable guy to become something arguably worse than Hitler.I'd say the OT does give some clues, he was seduced by the Dark Side, by its ability to do more faster and easier, and we see his secret draw to power in Ep 5, the guy wants control and gives up control to Palpatine to get it - the ultimate irony, his lust for control turns him into the Sith master's attack dog, puppet, and then zombie. Why Lucas went and cast that aside in favor of this "fear of loss" thing, I dunno, maybe his wife leaving him was a bigger impact than we thought.



I'm not sure how to answer that question directly, except to say that you suggested that the audience does not have to see the two of them actually meet. I disagree with that. We've already heard the story that Obi Wan found Anakin (in ROTJ), so now it's time to see it happen. That establishes Anakin in a universe separate from all the elements that will converge to interrupt the life he has. "Talking" about something that happened is very sitcom. Actually seeing it happen then witnessing the ramifications is cinematic. As I said in the first paragraph in this post, if I'm stuck with Lucas' crapass "Obi-Wan Kenobi, meet Anakin Skywalker" junk from the Ep 1 story, I'm not going to waste my time showing that, it's a pathetic start and not worth the audience's time. And ultimately, we are talking about what we'd do with Lucas' story as we've seen it.



Anyway, here's the Ep 1 pitch I came up with waaaay back in 2000 or so, it's a little sloppy and in hindsight, I would have it only end the clone WAR so that the next film could have another clone war which would bring the rest of the Jedi into play...

If forced to pitch a trilogy, I'd have made Ep 1 start 25 years before ANH, with Obi-Wan not yet training Anakin as his padawan.

A mid-30s Obi-Wan would start off the film splitting away from the Jedi council, all of whom are refusing to help the republic and specifically Alderraan in the clone war. While Obi-Wan is en route to Alderraan, we learn of the plight of Queen Amidala of Naboo, the young queen who's body of advisors have created the clones to make war. However, the queen is greatly opposed to this, but tricked into going along by the senator who represents the Naboo system and is secretly an evil Sith master who is manipulating all of Naboo's governing officials.

Obi-Wan goes off to help Bail Organa, who makes the Jedi knight a general for his advice and leading of troops into battle. During one of these ground-to-space battles, Obi-Wan encounters a freighter with R2-D2 and C-3PO as two of the ship's many droids, and a co-pilot named Anakin Skywalker - a brash young man in his early-to-mid teens who's a fantastic pilot, has a quick temper... and has something extra special about him. Obi-Wan pairs up with Anakin and they go off to fight the rest of the clone war. Sometime during this period, they get split up towards the middle of the film just as Obi-Wan is explaining to Anakin why he feels Anakin would make a great Jedi, with the right training.

Once split up, Obi-Wan - finding himself on a large asteroid-based space station (dirty and dark) - is forced to battle a gang of young men who have decided to take upon themselves to make lightsabers and learn the ways of the Force without any guidance or real skill, and end up becoming dark Jedi, some with lots of raw power, some with little talent, but all fairly dangerous. As Obi-Wan battles these youngsters (one of whom could be extra lucky and could be Boba Fett... perhaps), Anakin learns about Queen Amidala being opposed to the clone war and finds out something even more shocking - the queen is being targeted for assassination by someone within her own government because she is the only person who can bring peace to the looming galactic conflict.

Once Anakin and Obi-Wan reunite, Anakin explains the situation to his new friend and they go racing off to Naboo to save this young queen and hopefully bring about the end of the war. At this point, we cut away to learn more about Senator Palpatine's devious plot to manipulate every side of the republic in order to get to power, but the Jedi order are not as easily controlled and Palpatine discusses some of these issues with his puppets back on Naboo.

While en route to Naboo, Obi-Wan starts teaching Anakin the ways of the Force, and finds that teaching the ways of the Jedi is not quite as simple as it seemed when he was younger. Once Anakin brings the ship he and his new Jedi master are on out of Hyperspace, he has to carefully maneuver the freighter safely onto the planet Naboo without detection - another feat of piloting skill. When on the planet, our two heroes make their way to the capital city of Theed and come across clone and security droid resistance before actually getting near the queen. Once in the bustling Theed palace marketplace, a courtyard full of droids and traders of all walks of life, we see that Obi-Wan is quite adept at more than just the lightsaber as he exercises his mastery of the Jedi arts to convince traders to help our duo learn more as they sneak about. Finally, they learn about a public gathering in the marketplace where the Queen will make one of her regular appearances, and this gathering will be the place of her assassination, which will then be blamed on Alderraan with the assistance of Senator Palpatine and his pawns, the governing advisors and heads of Naboo. This part is building with suspense and action as our two heroes first attempt to sneak closer to save the queen, and then when they fail that way, remove their disguises and begin the hard fight against the well-armed and well-trained Naboo Royal Security Forces, as well as their clone and droid reinforcements. Obi-Wan believes he may have found out where the assassin is, and sends Anakin, with blasters in-hand, to defend the queen while the Jedi knight goes after the assassin. The scene hits a fevered pitch as we see Anakin first try to avoid hurting as many people as he can, and then just gets desperate when he feels his time running out, while Obi-Wan simultaneously tracks his prey, destroying enemy clones and droids as he hunts the hunter. Finally, Anakin reaches the Queen and quickly explains the situation as best he can, and there's an instant attraction between the two teenagers, although the sense of immanent doom is lurking. As Obi-Wan climbs the catwalks of the surrounding buildings of the marketplace, leaping huge distances in a stealthy manner, Anakin senses danger much closer than the assassin out on the outskirts, but isn't sure what to do, and panics. Just then, Obi-Wan finds the assassin, but the assassin is well-armed and gives the Jedi Master a real battle. As Obi-Wan battles, Anakin springs forward just as several of the Queen's closest advisors turn on her when they realize that the assassination isn't going as planned. Anakin fights hard and furious, while Obi-Wan fights equally hard, but calm as he is secretly moving the assassin out of position. Eventually, Anakin and the Queen have to take to the crowd as the Naboo Security Forces are loyal to Palpatine's people and turn on the Queen. Anakin and the Queen race through the crowd, deftly dodging blaster fire and staying low, for a moment getting separated but quickly meeting back up. The scene stays with Anakin and the Queen as they get corralled towards a dead-end, and just as Anakin starts becoming totally unable to keep the enemy forces at bay, Obi-Wan drops out of the building from 50 feet above and saves his new padawan and the young Queen he's defending. The film ends with Anakin and Obi-Wan bringing the Queen and Bail Organa together to end the clone wars, and Obi-Wan sending a message to the Jedi council about the dark Jedi-poser youth he encountered and the new padawan learner he's taken as his charge.