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Dominic Guglieme
01-11-2007, 11:53 AM
GI Joe 19
-This issue is the "breathing room" between arcs. There is a nice bit of irony to the fact that Serpentor, (a character steeped in history at many levels), is amnesiac. The biggest change to the status quo seems to be that Snake-eyes is no longer a ninja (as fall-out from a previous arc). Given the amount of back-pedaling and such that the series has been prone to in recent years, one might wonder how long this will stick. But, the Red Ninjas seem to have been permanently written out. Grade: B/C This issue is reason for cautious optimism about the series.

Manhunter 27
-Yeah.......Blue Beetle seems to be back. Yeah. Um.......yeah. He stayed dead a whole 2 years. So, um, question for Dan DiDio and DC as a whole.....is Blue Beetle still emblamatic of the tone of comics? Wow. Back-pedaling. Grade: D Of course, the cover did get me to buy the issue.

El Chuxter
01-11-2007, 11:59 AM
Okay, I'm not worried about spoilers.

How exactly does one become "no longer a ninja"?

darthvyn
01-11-2007, 02:22 PM
he defected and became a pirate. simple.

Dominic Guglieme
01-12-2007, 11:48 AM
During the latest Red Ninja arc (which came out of the series being derailed), Snakeeyes was put under a ninja hex, and when he came out of it, was disillusioned with ninjitsu in general. The recent issue established that Snakeeyes had given up the life.

The Red Ninjas are pretty much wiped out (with a few if any surviving), and Stormshadow has taken in indefinite leave. I assume that DDP is writing the ninjas out.

El Chuxter
01-12-2007, 12:39 PM
All right. I know you don't care for the ninja aspect of a lot of Joe stories, and we'll have to agree to disagree on the merits (or lack thereof) of Mr Hama, but that is stupid.

Why is it stupid? Not so much because it's a pretty blatant deus ex machina to get all the ninja stuff out of the series, but it makes it painfully obvious that whoever's writing it now has never once cracked a book on historical or modern ninjutsu. He apparently thinks they are all-purpose evil wizards, and probably believes that Frank Miller cooked up the idea with his brother back in the 80s to fill pages in Daredevil.

Wow. I don't even want to start pointing out everything that's wrong with someone simply saying, "Y'know, I don't want to be a ninja anymore." I'll fill several pages with my b****ing. And I have better things to do.

Downplay the ninja aspects if you want. Slowly get to the point where he's just an especially dangerous guy in black. Kill Storm Shadow, Jinx, Firefly, and everyone else if you feel it necessary.

But this, wow. Wow. The series doesn't have to be especially realistic at all times, but for 26 years it's shown respect for those readers who bother to find out that ninjas aren't fictional assassins in black with spooky powers, but very real groups of people who purposely kept their methods (and even existence) shrouded in mystery, and who still survive to this day.

This is a factual error on par with Dreamwave saying the US had a Minister of Defense (or whatever it was) in their first Transformers series.

Dominic Guglieme
01-12-2007, 05:52 PM
Yes, the franchise has been around for 26 years. Being unchanged works for Archie, but not many other titles.

Snakeeyes walking away from the ninja life is presented as a rational decision on his part. Yes, his best friend, and most of the people he cares about are associated with the Arashikage clan. But, how much of the grief in his life, even before "Ties that Bind" is associated with the clan? You want "realistic" stories? Well, here you go. Most, rational, realistic, people would walk away after so much difficulty. Giving up a way of life, even that of a ninja, is not impossible. And, showing such an action is far less a deviation from reality than say, mis-labeling a high-profile official, using titles from the wrong system of government.

DDP has not killed Kamakura or Stormshadow. But, it seems that they will not be showing up for a time.

I have nothing against using ninjas in a story at a conceptual level. Stormshadow is one of my favorite characters, as is Kamakura. But, for whatever reason, in GI Joe, many of the ninja arcs fall into serious contrivancy. And, there are other characters. X-Men should not be only about Wolverine, nor should GI Joe be only about ninjas.

There is nothing "insulting" to fans about taking the ninjas out of GI Joe. So what if some fans have followed up on the idea and researched Japanese history and culture? Does this help them pretend that GI Joe is, or ever was, realistic? Do these ninjas (who it seems still exist today) have the mystical powers shown in GI Joe?

Are techniques such as the "Ear the Sees", the "Sleeping Phoenix" and the "Arashikage Mindset" possible to the degree, and with the utility, shown in GI Joe? I sincerly doubt it. If anything, looking into real ninja lore would probably detract from the illusion that the comic is realistic.

Frankly, after the aimlessness of a couple of years back, I will be happy if DDP sticks to a new status quo for any meaninful amount of time. If that means no ninjas and less chance for fans to show a psuedo cultural interest in Japan, so be it.

Heck, after 26 years, maybe some fans want (and deserve) something else.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-14-2007, 10:50 AM
There are some things you just don't do, as it relates to comics. If you take over an existing character, some "do's" and "don't" indirectly apply:

You don't make Superman from anywhere but Krypton.
You don't have Bruce Wayne's parents live.
You don't give the Human Torch the power to freeze things.
You don't put Thor in Egypt's mythology.
You don't give Ghost Rider a Razor scooter or a Schwin bicycle.
You don't make the Black Panther from Thailand.
You don't have Catwoman catch chicken pox and give her facial marks.

Therefore, you don't take away a ninja's ninja-ness. Period. GI Joe may not be on the level with some iconic Marvel or DC comics, but it has its own history and standards. This sounds bad, and I don't even collect the GI Joe comics anymore, but...

kool-aid killer
01-14-2007, 05:31 PM
I picked up the first issue of the Batman and Superman vs Aliens and Predator two shot series on Friday. I'll give my final thoughts on the story once its concluded. So far its got its good and bad, so we'll see how it wraps up and if it does so in a good manner.

El Chuxter
01-14-2007, 05:32 PM
All righty.... I'm willing to say that, based upon your last post, I might have misinterpreted exactly what you meant.

So, to clarify, which is it?

A) Snake Eyes is still the badarse, black-clad, katana-wielding commando of the Joe team, but woke up one morning and thought, "Ninjas suck." He then renounced every bit of ninja training he's ever received and is merely a nasty commando.

B) Snake Eyes, after recent events, though, "The Arashikage Clan" sucks and then renounced his ties to the clan (or to any organized ninja clan), while still holding onto and practicing the skills he gained from them which would be considered "ninja skills."

Dominic Guglieme
01-15-2007, 05:03 PM
To answer Chux, Snakeeyes turns away from ninjitsu itself, not just the Arashikage. (Remember, most of them are dead now.) Given the amount of grief he likely associates with ninjitsu, this makes sense. I would bail too. Snakeyes is seen in issue 19 basically hiding from the world.



There are some things you just don't do, as it relates to comics. If you take over an existing character, some "do's" and "don't" indirectly apply:

You don't make Superman from anywhere but Krypton.
You don't have Bruce Wayne's parents live.
You don't give the Human Torch the power to freeze things.
You don't put Thor in Egypt's mythology.
You don't give Ghost Rider a Razor scooter or a Schwin bicycle.
You don't make the Black Panther from Thailand.
You don't have Catwoman catch chicken pox and give her facial marks.

Therefore, you don't take away a ninja's ninja-ness. Period. GI Joe may not be on the level with some iconic Marvel or DC comics, but it has its own history and standards. This sounds bad, and I don't even collect the GI Joe comics anymore, but...


With fiction, understanding the reasoning for the rule is more important than the rule itself. If one understands the reason, it is possible to break the rule, and still yield a good product, as the intend of the rule would be preserved. I

First, discount fannishness. Superman and Krypton are good examples of this. Yes, I thought the end of "Red Son" was forced, and involved some bad comic book elements, but the lack of Krypton was hardly the worst thing in the story.

With the Human Torch, if one assumes his powers are derived from heat manipulation, rather than generating heat, then freezing would make sense, as the Torch would be able to draw away and re-allocate heat. If nothing else, what we know of physics and energy (and cold being the absence of heat) would be consistent with this as well. (The idea being that the Torch projecting heat one place would draw it from another.)

Bruce Wayne's parents dying are the motivation for Wayne to become Batman. There was an excellenct pre=Crisis Batman story ("To Kill a Legend") that assumed Wayne's parents lived, and Wayne still was destined to become Batman. (Sadly, the story was never followed up on, as aside from the living parents, it was assumed little else would change.)


And, Snakeyes need not be a ninja, unless one still insists on reading the same comics they did when they were 10. If you want Snakeeyes to always be a ninja (whoa, ninjas are kewl), read back-issues. As I have said before, the new GI Joe series is deeply flawed, largely by its reliance on polemnic writing. But, at least the plots are more idea based, if ostentatiously politicized, than they habe been in the last few years.

By the "Snakeeyes should be a ninja and ninjas are good" logic, Sigma 6 is the best thing to happen to GI Joe in a long time.

preacher
01-15-2007, 11:42 PM
One writer that breaks superhero rules consistently is Garth Ennis. The reason his breaking of rules succeeds is that he intentionally seeks out to make superheros seem absurd. I mean lets face - they are absurd.

His run of Punisher (first 12 issues) he systematically made bad asses Spiderman and Daredevil completely laughable and showed just how a grave a threat someone like punisher could be if he existed.

The hitman was the same way. I never laughed so hard at how rediculous Green Lantern seemed and the Hitman was just a common - well - Hitman. The only two classic heros that Ennis actually has an affinity for is Batman and Superman.

The one-issue storyline where Superman and Hitman meet was superb.

You can break the rules, but you better be a damn talented writer if you do that. If you suck as a writer, don't bother trying your hand at something like - Spiderman Clone Wars. (Ultimate Spiderman version of Clone Wars is just - awesome).

Rocketboy
01-15-2007, 11:59 PM
His run of Punisher (first 12 issues) he systematically made bad asses Spiderman and Daredevil completely laughable and showed just how a grave a threat someone like punisher could be if he existed.How true! Not only did he make DD and Spidey look like fools in the first twelve he did it quite a few other times in his 2nd run of Punisher (he also used Wolverine and Hulk).

Dominic Guglieme
01-16-2007, 04:24 PM
Truthfully, I cannot stand Ennis. He is a bit too much of a "swearing to make it seem grown up" type. It stops being funny pretty quickly. Beyond obnoxious parody, he does not seem to have anything to say.

I never read Ultimate Spider-clone, but I recall the original being horrid.

I wager that not writing aimlessly is probably the only rule that should never be broken. (Yet, it is the most commonly broken in terms of comic books.)

El Chuxter
01-19-2007, 11:45 AM
To answer Chux, Snakeeyes turns away from ninjitsu itself, not just the Arashikage. (Remember, most of them are dead now.) Given the amount of grief he likely associates with ninjitsu, this makes sense. I would bail too. Snakeyes is seen in issue 19 basically hiding from the world.

And, Snakeyes need not be a ninja, unless one still insists on reading the same comics they did when they were 10. If you want Snakeeyes to always be a ninja (whoa, ninjas are kewl), read back-issues. As I have said before, the new GI Joe series is deeply flawed, largely by its reliance on polemnic writing. But, at least the plots are more idea based, if ostentatiously politicized, than they habe been in the last few years.

By the "Snakeeyes should be a ninja and ninjas are good" logic, Sigma 6 is the best thing to happen to GI Joe in a long time.

I have a feeling we're going to have to agree to disagree on Snake Eyes suddenly deciding he doesn't want to be a ninja anymore.

There is a lot of BS information about ninjas out there. More than accurate, verifiable info, I'm afraid. But the legitimate sources all agree that, though the ninja clans technically existed outside the rigid class structure of feudal Japan, they still held the same ideals that the "official" bushi/samurai classes clung to. If you were born a ninja, you died a ninja. Period. There was no such thing as class mobility or career change in this time and place in history.

Now, Snake Eyes came to the Arashikage as an adult, and as a foreigner. However, he was chosen over Storm Shadow to be the Hard Master's heir. So we can reasonably assume that he has totally embraced their ideals, both spiritual and social.

As for simply turning his back on that, while not impossible in the modern world, it's highly unlikely. We see Kamakura call him "Silent Master" in the first issue of the DD run of GIJoe. So, if he wasn't already there, he's attained the rank of Master--at least a genin (equivalent to a ninja general), possibly a jonin (clan leader). (Unlike Luke Skywalker, Snake Eyes would know more about ninja and would not take it upon himself to take the title Master when he felt like it.)

As for feeling that ninjutsu itself has betrayed him, well, that's one point that really makes me wonder if the current writer has done any research aside from watching old TMNT cartoons. One of the core tenets of most (if not all) schools of ninjutsu was a specialized form of Zen Buddhism, which would have prepared him for loss, and helped him cope.

It just doesn't ring true. It seems like the book is in the hands of people who want to downplay the ninja aspects of the old series (not necessarily a bad thing), but who think that a ninja is anyone who wears black, knows martial arts, and can move silently. It's rather disappointing, since Blaylock has seemed to have a pretty good handle on these things in the past.

Dominic Guglieme
01-19-2007, 01:59 PM
Both Snakeeyes and Kamakura are westerners, and would not have the same cultural aversion to mobility that you are talking about.

I am wondering who confered the master title on Snakeeyes. After all, but issue 100 of the original series, there was only one previous master alive =Firefly. And, both he would not likely give Snakeeyes a title. (Stormshadow was exiled, and I assume stripped of title in flash-back.)


Of course, one reason Snakeyes may have given up (in addition to the previously discussed) is that ther is not much of a clan anymore. Aside from Himself, Kamakura and some other names characrers, the clan consists of maybe a half-dozen guys in red gis that seem to have trouble picking a side.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-20-2007, 01:42 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread, so here goes.

I actually bought a new non-SW comic book! :eek: The Who Wants to Be a Superhero book that was delayed more times than Wolverine's "true" origin story. I won't repeat my review from my TV section post, but this was the closest to "all effects-no story" comic I've read in a LLOOOOOOOONNNNGG time. Bad, lame, cheesy. But that's close to the TV show, so I guess it's appropriate then.

darthvyn
07-20-2007, 02:17 PM
holy crap, it actually came out???? i was expecting it to be the new "PITT!"

Bel-Cam Jos
07-20-2007, 11:38 PM
holy crap, it actually came out???? i was expecting it to be the new "PITT!"I'd re-phrase it: "holy, it actually came out crap????" Hee-hee... nah. That's not fair. It just seems stuck in the 1960s hero mold, but then Stan the Man seems to be there himself. :sad:

El Chuxter
07-21-2007, 12:31 AM
Stripperella didn't appear to be indicative of his retention of his once uncanny ability to create great characters. The last thing he created that showed promise was Ravage 2099, which went into the toilet superfast after he left the book after less than ten issues.

darthvyn
07-22-2007, 08:51 PM
his story in "stan lee meets the amazing spider-man" was pretty funny - it was all about spidey asking stan if he could quit, and stan convincing him to stay on the job by showing him all the people who depend on him because they make their living off his merchandising rights.