PDA

View Full Version : AT-ST #7657 Review (with pics)



Slicker
01-23-2007, 01:34 PM
I just got done building the AT-ST and...WOW!!!

If you have the original and were as let down by it even when that was the only thing around then you've GOTTA get this! I usually don't get pumped over a simple $20 set but it's really quite decent. It's quite large (about 8" tall when it's standing properly and about 11" with the legs fully extended) and is in quite good proportion to the mini-figs.

It came with several elements that I've never seen (I only do SW LEGO now so they're probably in other sets) and I noticed a neat thing (once again probably been around awhile) and that is that they now list all of the parts and show a picture of them on the back of the instructions. I know they used to do this for the Technic sets and the Model Team ones but I didn't know they started doing it for the system sets.

The one real selling point for me though was the badda55 AT-ST Driver!!! He looks sweet and the addition of the new blasters (I liked the old ones because they were made of existing pieces and were so generic that you had to love 'em).

The only real "faults" that I could find are, in my opinion, the eye holes are a bit small and the face is a bit long. Also they could have done a bit more in the interior with the amounts of space that are in there but what are you gonna do? Other than those minor ones it's about as good as it gets without getting the UCS one.


My over all grade: A-





BTW, I clocked in at just under 30 minutes for the build.


Height (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00565.jpg?t=1169580761)

Front View (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00574.jpg?t=1169580790)

Long in the Face (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00575.jpg?t=1169580820)

The Reason I Bought the Set (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00577.jpg?t=1169580850)

Blaster (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00578.jpg?t=1169580879)

JediTricks
01-24-2007, 05:38 PM
Cool pics, though if you have macro mode for shots closer than a foot, it'd take care of the blurry issue with those last 2.

It's weird, I read a few pretty negative reviews of this set originally because the legs don't really move in any meaningful way, but now I'm seeing more reviews like yours where the overall look pays off for them.

I haven't been tempted to get this set, but with more and more folks saying "get it", I'm starting to be swayed. What do you think the chances of rebuilding the chin so it's not too long would be? The chin should end halfway down the chin-gun.

The geared head, does it turn loosely or stay straight until you turn the knob at the back?

Slicker
01-24-2007, 07:26 PM
What do you think the chances of rebuilding the chin so it's not too long would be? The chin should end halfway down the chin-gun.It can very easily be done. I've got an idea right now and I may try it and take some pictures for you to see how you could very easily do it.


The geared head, does it turn loosely or stay straight until you turn the knob at the back?It turns loosely. I'm indifferent about. It stays in position good enough but if you jiggle the table it'll turn towards a side that's slanted.

JediTricks
01-25-2007, 12:08 AM
It can very easily be done. I've got an idea right now and I may try it and take some pictures for you to see how you could very easily do it.Cool! Could you take a photo from an isometric view (a quarter view basically) of the chin with one side of the chin wall totally removed when you do? I'm curious to see what we'd be up against in a rebuild.


It turns loosely. I'm indifferent about. It stays in position good enough but if you jiggle the table it'll turn towards a side that's slanted.I wish they'd either use a worm gear to keep this from happening, or create large and small turntables with friction (like the friction technic pegs, usually black in color - which reminds me, I want a friction half-stud technic peg!).

Kidhuman
01-25-2007, 06:29 AM
Gonna have to grab this one, for 20 bucks its not bad at all.

Slicker
01-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Here are the pics you asked for JT (I think):

Front On (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00589.jpg)

Side (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00590.jpg)

Barometric...or isometric. Whatever...:p (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/slicker1138/Hosted%20pics/Star%20Wars%20LEGO/DSC00591.jpg)


If you need anymore pics just holla!

JediTricks
01-26-2007, 04:52 PM
Wow, thanks! The side view told me a lot less than I expected, but the isometric view told me almost everything I wanted to know about that, and the front view confirmed that which I wasn't sure of.

I think the hardest part will be figuring out how to attach those 2 small radar dish greebles under the gun without that plate underneath, there's not much room to work with behind the guns to hang it but that's the most likely place. I'm thinking that the slanty bricks might not do the trick to replace the long slanty bricks currently making up the chin, but perhaps small angle plates hanging on either side could be used instead (I'm beginning to like that idea already). I'm gonna try to pick this set up tonight and see if I can pull that off.

There's some decent photos of the AT-ST from the front in the "movies" and "EU" section on its sw.com listing: http://www.starwars.com/databank/vehicle/atst/

Thanks Slick! Let us know what you do with the rebuilding, photos too.

Slicker
01-27-2007, 12:05 AM
Thanks Slick! Let us know what you do with the rebuilding, photos too.Unfortunately, I can't do it. I've only got limited pieces here and I THOUGHT I had the proper pieces but I don't so it's all just gonna have to be done by others.:(

JediTricks
01-27-2007, 01:56 AM
Ah well, if you ever get a chance...

I picked it up today, haven't had a moment to get it assembled yet though.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 01:34 AM
First, let me fire off my initial review on this set...

There's a sliding scale of "good" in the LEGO Star Wars universe, especially if a ship is a remake of an older set. In this case, the older set is the AT-ST with Chewbacca from 2001 and it's among the least-accurate sets ever (not to mention it's just plain silly-looking) so any remake of it can only be better. This new one is the 4th LEGO version of the All Terrain Scout Transport, and definitely the most recent. However, it's not exactly all that good even though it's a significant upgrade from the original.

The build is pretty interesting and has a very decent part-count, but building the legs last feels anticlimactic here. The hardest part for me was getting the figure into the cockpit seat, it's a little awkward to get in there. The focus is on getting more of the movie model's details to make an appearance through false-perspective and light greebling (building little details that serve no other function), it's a fair update but definitely not the final stop.

The cockpit is still a 1-seater but has much more room, even if there aren't any details. The top hatch is a sight better than the original's goofy mess, now the center of the roof flips up and has a fake hatch in the middle. There's some fudging to get the windows and shutters on the face, but the look is pulled off better than it really deserves. Under the main gun now is a detail from the movie version, the twin disks - are they energizers, recoil system? I dunno, but they look neat and add a lot of character for something rather small. The "toes" are now represented and do a decent job of that for what they are, and the feet are much closer than the original's, but the lower leg springs are poorly-depicted by another use of the toes greeble.

The minifigure is an Imperial AT-ST Pilot, with a new gray outfit, goggle-painted non-smiling head, new helmet, and new blaster. The pilot is a cool customer, the only things he's missing are the black boots and Imperial emblem on his left shoulder. I also would have liked to see a second, non-goggled face painted on the other side of his head. The box shows the figure halfway out of the hatch, but the only thing to stand on is the narrow seat and it turns out he's holding onto the railing.

Features include a movable chin gun, rotating side weapons, and a gear-driven gimmick that turns the head left and right. Notice I didn't mention walking even though this is the "Chicken Walker", that's because for stability's sake (or money's) there are no viable leg joints on this set. The hips are locked into place, the upper knees can only bend backwards, and the lower knees and ankles have stops to keep them from collapsing so they can only move backwards, all of which is a shame because not only does it take away a nifty feature, but it also makes legs that are plain and not accurate-looking (especially sad since the leg joints on the real AT-ST look very similar to some newer LEGO joints). No walking gimmick means this is a "stand there and turn side to side" set, it's a nifty gimmick but not much to do for a $20 toy.

Besides the lack of play functions, my chief complaint here is how half-hearted some of the representations are. The angled bar at the back of the head is just a nub on either side, the railing at the top hatch is just a single bar at the front instead of all the way around, the simple hip shield plates reduced to a stick-on brick. I can deal with stuff like the binoculars in place of left-side turret, but only to a point.

The worst though is the lack of shape on the head itself. The AT-ST's head may seem at first like a simple box in the movie, but a cursory look shows it's actually tapering both forward and downward, a very difficult shape for LEGO to convey in bricks. Here, they try to represent that with angled plates for the rear armor and a slanted lower face that also steps in 1 level, and the result isn't particularly accurate. Then LEGO goes and makes the chin nearly twice as long as it's supposed to be since, rather than angling the whole head downward, they got stuck using steeply-angled bricks and there's very little in their arsenal that can be used for that.

Bottom line, this feels like a work in progress, it's not a bad set exactly but it has deficiencies in both the play and display departments. It's a mostly-solid set, the top hatch dish and some of the greebling stuff can come off when it's knocked over, but generally it holds up to use and is moderately well-balanced. It's not a failure, but neither is it a success. Grade: C

Slicker
01-28-2007, 01:44 AM
The box shows the figure halfway out of the hatch, but the only thing to stand on is the narrow seat and it turns out he's holding onto the railing.
If you'll notice I pulled off the "half out of the cockpit" view too. It's quite easy and done with everything that's there. You'll notice that the "view screen" in front of the pilot has to studs at the top. Just keep the pilot in the sitting position and clip his feet to it and he'll stick out.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 03:27 AM
Now, onto the chin fix...

Within mere minutes of finishing the build, I realized I couldn't stop thinking about how that chin looked and how I could fix it, and I knew those 2 dishes had to be a part of whatever I did. I had spent some time earlier checking out a few pictures of the AT-ST, considering what were my criteria, and ultimately I settled on these examples:
LEGO UCS AT-ST image: http://guide.lugnet.com/set/?q=10174_1&v=z
Code 3 AT-ST image: http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/code3/news20050216.html
SW.com databank image 1: http://www.starwars.com/databank/vehicle/atst/
SW.com databank image 2: http://www.starwars.com/databank/vehicle/atst/?id=euFrom those, I realized I was in a lot of trouble because the thing really isn't square at all, and LEGO's $20 version stuck me with a very steep angle which not many pieces accomodated - including the standard 2x1 slope brick (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?P=3040).

Even before I bought the set, I was thinking the 3x2 wedge plate (left (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=43723) and right (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=43722)) would likely be my go-to part, and I also needed those 2x1-2x2 hanging plates (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=44728) to hold them, and naturally I had neither in my loose pieces box. Initially, I borrowed the hanging part from the knees of the AT-ST itself and had the left and right wedges on my recent "Cool Cars" purchase, though they were in yellow. I slapped the parts on and got the initial idea worked out. I had forgotten that Shop.LEGO.com now had pick-a-brick (a meager 14 cents for each of the ones I needed plus 6 cents each for the two 3x1 gray plates I still have to fudge for now) so I went to Bricklink to scope out inventories of sets that those parts appeared in that I could possibly scavenge them out of. After tracking down the parts, I went through a search of sets I had before realizing all the data I really needed was right there, including which sets had them in colors I wanted. Finally I stumbled across the AT-RT for the hanging plates and V-wing for the wedge plates and realized both are essentially vestigial on those sets! The wedge plates appear 6 times (3 left, 3 right) on the V-wing, but 1 set is virtually unseen making up the underside middle of the cockpit, I replaced them with regular 3x2 plates which I happened to have bought a surplus of last time I was at the lego store. The hanging plates appeared 4 times on the AT-RT, and it was a combo job holding a wedge plate on the sides as detail and the forward set couldn't be seen from most angles anyway, so I removed the front set and put a 2x2 in their place at the top. Now I had my parts... until I got to the detail under the gun! There's next to no room to work with and it's several awkward elements, so I spent over an hour working out what would do best and the one I liked the most turned out to be unusable. Ultimately, I came up with a fairly strong system but it limits the guns downward movement exactly the same as the original.

Anyway, enough of my blah blah blah, here come the pictures to really tell the tale:
Prototype - http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstprestartya8.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/931/legoatstprestartya8.jpg)

Completed -
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfin01xc9.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfin02pz1.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfin03hr8.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfin04by2.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfinup05fi6.jpg

Here it is partly deconstructed (you can see the difference between the gray and blay on the remaining 1x1 plate and the 1 stud on top of it) -
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfindebuild06oy9.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfindebuild07to5.jpg

Deconstructed with the double-dish removed -
http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfinsuperdebuildir0.jpg

The parts removed from the set -
http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfinleftovers09lx3.jpg

A comparison in the difference between the height of the original and my rebuild (it's 1 brick shorter, that's a significant amount) -
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfincompare10re0.jpg

Finally, an alternate concept with a 2x3 plate aligning the new chin with the face's lines -
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfinalt11dm3.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legoatstfinalt12ws8.jpg
(you can see the gray vs blay even more in that last one)
On that alternate, neither photo really did the job showing what it looks like. Also, I tried a different alt build stacking a second set of 3x2 wedge plates but it looked way worse so I didn't bother shooting it.

Anyway, basically what I did is use the false-perspective design yet another level in so it looks like it's tapering down again. The chin is shorter by a whole brick and maintains the face angle. The build basics:
- remove the original chin and separate gun with hinge plate and stud-faced bricks (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=4070) from the rest of the chin;
- remove the 1x6 plate from the underside;
- move the two 4x6 plates remaining on the underside back 1 stud each;
- attach the two hanging 2x2-2x4 under the front slope faces;
- re-attach the 2x3 dark gray plate to the underside in the original location so it anchors under the hanging plates;
- re-attach the guns to the 2x3 plate;
- attach the side wedges and plates behind them (I used a 1x2 and a 1x1, then covered the 1x1 with a blay single stud because the mix is ugly, I would have used a 1x3 if I had one, but actually the stud at the top of that helps transition down).

Then I had to build a new holder for the double dishes:
- attached two 1x2 black plates under the gun;
- attached two black stud-faced bricks in normal orientation;
- attached a "half-stud (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3794)" (1x2 plate with single stud on top) to the front of the stud-faced bricks;
- attached the double dish's t-handle to the half-stud.

Voila!



If you'll notice I pulled off the "half out of the cockpit" view too. It's quite easy and done with everything that's there. You'll notice that the "view screen" in front of the pilot has to studs at the top. Just keep the pilot in the sitting position and clip his feet to it and he'll stick out.Haw! I didn't notice that in your photo. Yours is a better cheat though.

DarkArtist
01-30-2007, 02:52 PM
I may have to get this one. would love to see a comparsion shot of the new set as compared to the old. I have all the original lego sets up to AOTC and bowed out during the ROTS craze.
Recently picked up the Clone and Droid sets. was thinking of getting the AT-St and the Landing Craft so maybe now I will.

JediTricks
01-30-2007, 05:30 PM
The old one is so ugly it cannot be photographed. :p I found this comparison on FBTB:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jinx32/7657/dscf0046.jpg
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jinx32/7657/dscf0047.jpg

(for those who don't know, no, the original does not come with that Snowtrooper)


And check this, my complex thing that made the double dish stay on, this person came up with another, far simpler idea: http://www.fbtbforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=17268&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
I toyed with the notion of changing the hinge system, but never went beyond the thought. It's an easy conversion, I just slapped it together, but I'm not sure I prefer how the guns move now and the chin feels "naked" with no backer.

Slicker
01-30-2007, 05:42 PM
God, I knew that original AT-ST was bad but I didn't realize it was THAT bad.

I don't know how that thing got past QA!!!

JediTricks
01-30-2007, 05:58 PM
At the $10 level, LEGO doesn't seem so concerned with accuracy. ;) It shuffles along and comes with Chewbacca, that was good enough back in the day for them - not for buyers though (I bet kids didn't mind, but what do they know, they eat paste). The design borrows heavily at the waist down from their late '90s robot/mech/walker designs.

Slicker
01-30-2007, 06:13 PM
I had totally forgotten about the low price point. I guess it can be slightly forgiven. It also came with Chewie so it saved people that wanted that mini-fig about $60 instead of buying the Falcon.

JediTricks
01-31-2007, 10:06 PM
The original Falcon has some charms though. If the original AT-ST had come with either a driver or 2 Ewoks as well as Chewie, I think it would have been even easier to accept. But let's face it, it's an ugly sucka.