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Tycho
02-12-2007, 10:12 PM
This was a Disney space epic made to capitalize on sci-fi's surge given to it by Star Wars no doubt.

V.I.N.C.E.N.T. was a direct knock off between R2-D2 and Spock actually (with his witicizms in response to everything the brash pilot Charlie Pizer said).

The uniforms are almost white variations on the StarFleet look done later on Enterprise, which are also similar to real NASA jumpsuits (the blues, minus the diapers of some fame as of late).

Captain Dan Holland was a cool character and "Reinhart" was well played as an obsessive madman.

I liked the heroic music played during the firefights with the robots. The other theme they had running during much of the credits and the Palamino's original approach of the Cygnus felt very dated and reminded you that this was a "B-movie."

Anthony Perkins played Dr. Alex Durant who you had to like before he met an unfortunate end at the hands of the killer-enforcer robot, Maximillian (who was undoubtedly the surrogate Darth Vader of the film).

The Sentry Robots were also knock-offs of the stormtroopers. But so what?

I had the action figures when I was a kid. They did most of them old GI Joe style (screws and rubberbands) and they lacked weapons. However they looked alright and the robots were cool!

I still love that scene when the crew is running ahead of the huge meteroite that crashes into the ship. It's like the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark X 100!

This concludes all my movie reviews until I have watched 7 years or more of Star Trek and tackle the Enterprise's movies. I've discussed everything I own in my personal video collection, and that I had an interest in renting, etc.

Of course I'll participate in on-going threads and new-movie threads -or start them if need be - but everything I know I plan to see this year has a thread:

Epic Movie
Hannibal Lechter
Fan Boys
Spider-Man 3
Transformers

I'm not sure if there will be more. I don't think I'll run and see Fantastic Four: 2 in the theaters. I wasn't really impressed with the first one.

But if anyone cares to discuss The Black Hole...

Rocketboy
02-12-2007, 11:41 PM
Black Hole sucked.
How is it there was a Star Wars lawsuit against Battlestar Galactica and not against this crap?
Two guys and an old man (and two robots) go aboard the space station to save the girl from the evil old guy and his henchman robot.

Tycho
02-13-2007, 12:01 AM
I don't think The Black Hole sucked. I rather liked it.

But I totally agree with your point about it being a direct Star Wars rip-off.

I'm not sure what the basis for a Battlestar Galactica lawsuit is, but I hope that to even be filed, it has more substance to it than similarities such as The Black Hole exhibits.

mabudonicus
02-13-2007, 10:25 AM
Sedcond RB here, while some of the visuals were OK and Maximillian kinda looked cool, the film was carp, hell Space 1999 was almost better and it sucked too...

Hopefully there'll be no re-make starring Will Smith or something, but no doubt there's a plce for it in the crap that gets trotted out every summer...

I honestly can't remember a single scene that was anything more than subpar, but I ain't gonna toss away moeny or time making sure I'm right on that

:beard:Isobaws&

JON9000
02-13-2007, 10:43 AM
While I wholeheartedly recommend “The Black Hole”, it needs to be understood going in that it is far from airtight and will only likely appeal to kids, those who remember loving it as a kid, or those interested in it as an example of the effects capabilities of the time. It suffers from schizophrenia. We have an extremely dark theme, a symbolic ending and a rather violent murder (the first I saw on screen as a kid- I was rattled) paired a couple of cutesy robots and some truly silly moments (ESP with a robot?).


Captain Dan Holland was a cool character and "Reinhart" was well played as an obsessive madman.

Anthony Perkins played Dr. Alex Durant who you had to like before he met an unfortunate end at the hands of the killer-enforcer robot, Maximillian (who was undoubtedly the surrogate Darth Vader of the film).

Don't forget Enest Borgnine and Roddy McDowell... that makes 5 extremely well regarded actors in this film.


I liked the heroic music played during the firefights with the robots. The other theme they had running during much of the credits and the Palamino's original approach of the Cygnus felt very dated and reminded you that this was a "B-movie."

The "Black Hole Theme" was done by John Barry (James Bond and several Oscars). It is a blatant rip-off of Bernard Herrmann's "Prelude" from the "Vertigo" soundtrack. It amazingly somehow gives one the sensation of being on the edge of a precipice, so I understand what he was shooting for.
This was actually a prestigious picture for Disney at the time- it had a very big budget and an ambitious script, so I wouldn't call it a "B", but it is obvious that corners were cut in a couple of places.


I still love that scene when the crew is running ahead of the huge meteroite that crashes into the ship. It's like the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark X 100!

With regards to the effects, when they work they are magnificent and hold up quite well. The Cygnus and the black hole are beautiful, and the big FX shot, that of a giant asteroid piercing the ship and rolling toward the heroes, still has me wondering how they did it. Unfortunately, in some ways the movie was far too ambitious for the technology of its time. You can see the wires in many scenes (thanks to the DVD’s picture quality) and the shot where the Cygnus is being consumed by the maelstrom was just impossible to film, I suspect.


How is it there was a Star Wars lawsuit against Battlestar Galactica and not against this crap?

"The Black Hole" owes a lot more to "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" than it does to "Star Wars", and since "Star Wars" is almost completely derivative itself, this criticism isn't fair.

Phantom-like Menace
02-13-2007, 05:16 PM
I liked it for what is was. V.I.N.CENT was pretty cool when I was young, and I even got the old Mego figures of him and Maximillian last year with the intent of trying to sneak them into Star Wars displays as a gag and tribute to a movie I used to like when I was younger.

JediTricks
02-13-2007, 05:55 PM
While I wholeheartedly recommend “The Black Hole”, it needs to be understood going in that it is far from airtight and will only likely appeal to kids, those who remember loving it as a kid, or those interested in it as an example of the effects capabilities of the time. It suffers from schizophrenia. We have an extremely dark theme, a symbolic ending and a rather violent murder (the first I saw on screen as a kid- I was rattled) paired a couple of cutesy robots and some truly silly moments (ESP with a robot?).You are a wise man Jon, those are all great points.

Disney had a weird period around then where they did films that were marketed to kids but way too dark, another one was "Something Wicked This Way Comes" and "Return to Oz".


Don't forget Enest Borgnine and Roddy McDowell... that makes 5 extremely well regarded actors in this film.You counting Slim Pickens as old BOB?


This was actually a prestigious picture for Disney at the time- it had a very big budget and an ambitious script, so I wouldn't call it a "B", but it is obvious that corners were cut in a couple of places.They spent so much money on effects that it created an effects house far more powerful than ILM at that time, unfortunately Disney the film studio wasn't as smart about using it as Lucas was with his rag-tag band. Disney had wanted to use the Dykstra cameras for the model work but Lucas wouldn't allow it, so Disney actually had invented a far more advanced system than what was on Star Wars.


With regards to the effects, when they work they are magnificent and hold up quite well. The Cygnus and the black hole are beautiful, and the big FX shot, that of a giant asteroid piercing the ship and rolling toward the heroes, still has me wondering how they did it. Unfortunately, in some ways the movie was far too ambitious for the technology of its time. You can see the wires in many scenes (thanks to the DVD’s picture quality) and the shot where the Cygnus is being consumed by the maelstrom was just impossible to film, I suspect.

"The Black Hole" owes a lot more to "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" than it does to "Star Wars", and since "Star Wars" is almost completely derivative itself, this criticism isn't fair.Another set of good points, especially 20,000 Leagues which TBH is directly borrowing from.

I think The Black Hole delivers on the more intelligent promises of sci-fi from the '50s, but sullies that with the kid marketing. In some ways, TBH reminds me of one of the best-made sci-fi flick of the '50s, "Forbidden Planet" - there are similar plot overtones and they're both set in a single place with the heroes there from a stranded spaceship. Actually, once we start looking close enough, TBH, Forbidden Planet, Star Trek TOS, and a lot of other "dawn of man's venture into space"-era sci-fi works share a lot of concepts (though with varying amounts of hope).


BTW, The Black Hole is not exactly a rip off of Star Wars, it had been a pre-production project at Disney since the late '60s I believe and was in early production in '75 while Star Wars was still in pre-production.

JON9000
02-13-2007, 07:03 PM
You are a wise man Jon, those are all great points.

Thank you, kind sir. I forgot about Slim Pickens. It is worth finding a hi-fi surround system to watch the DVD on. You might be surprised how good the soundtrack is at the beginning and end of the film.

Blue2th
02-13-2007, 07:59 PM
I liked this flick when I saw it years ago. I remember seeing the wires for the floating robot and thought that was fake. I also remember being traumatized as a kid when Anthony Perkins got shredded by Maximillian. I thought it odd that the villian was played by Maximillian Schell ordering Maximillian the robot to kill Anthony Perkins.

Tycho
02-13-2007, 08:11 PM
What roles is Anthony Perkins famous for?

JON9000
02-13-2007, 09:52 PM
Go rent "Psycho" today. He never quite lived it down, he was perfect in an iconic role.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-14-2007, 01:33 AM
I remember this looking cool when it first came out, but I didn't get to see it. The school library had the book though, so I read that. I eventually saw the movie, probably on TV a few years later. I don't remember the details much, but it was all right.

Old Fossil
02-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Glad to hear I wasn't the only one shaken by Maximilian tearing up Anthony Perkins' character. Another scene that hit me pretty hard was Reinhart's face as he was swallowed by the Black Hole... can't say why that rattled me, but hey, I was 10 years old, I think.

I always loved this movie, even with the cop-out symbolic ending which, as a child, I really didn't understand. The theme music by John Barry was perfect. The robots were great fun, and Roddy MacDowall as the voice of V.I.N.CENT brought back great memories of another sci-fi favorite, Planet of the Apes. I liked this film so much as a kid, that I bought and read the novelization.

You know, someone should really remake this film... they could do it great justice with the technology available today.

Tycho
02-14-2007, 12:37 PM
I just want to echo so many others' sentiments about Maximillian tearing his rotor blades into Alex Durant. Dang! That idea did disturb me quite a bit as a kid, and sort of still does now.

They didn't show the blood splatter on the wall (or worse) but your own imagination fills that in far worse. It was quite an effective moment in the movie!

Blue2th
02-14-2007, 10:18 PM
And the fact that Maximillion's blades went through the clipboard or notebook Anthony Perkin's was trying to block himself with, and the rythmic cutting-screaming as the blades went through it. Just disturbing.

Rocketboy
02-14-2007, 10:42 PM
"The Black Hole" owes a lot more to "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" than it does to "Star Wars", and since "Star Wars" is almost completely derivative itself, this criticism isn't fair.How is that? Not trying to be an @ss here - but I've never seen "20,000 Leagues..." and based on my description (minus one big furry sidekick) of Star Wars and The Black Hole (see below), they sound pretty damn similar.


Two guys and an old man (and two robots) go aboard the space station to save the girl from the evil old guy and his henchman robot.

preacher
02-16-2007, 09:29 PM
I always thought this more like Moby Dick.

Dr Reinhard being Ahab

Blackhole being his White Whale.

His obsession killing him in the end and taking everyone down with him.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-16-2007, 10:47 PM
What roles is Anthony Perkins famous for?I'll take the bait, if you're being sarcastic. Heard of some cult underground film called Sidekick-o? Uh, I mean Psycho?

[edit: I didn't notice the other comments after this]

Tycho
02-17-2007, 12:35 AM
I thought his name was associated with Psycho.

To be honest, I've never seen the entire film. I know the gist of it: the character dresses up like his mother and kills the girls he is trying to hook up with in his outside life - one of them while she's taking a shower.

Amazingly, the Hannibal movies entertain me, but the idea of watching something else in that genre bores me. That's why I haven't viewed Psycho.

JediTricks
02-17-2007, 07:54 AM
How is that? Not trying to be an @ss here - but I've never seen "20,000 Leagues..." and based on my description (minus one big furry sidekick) of Star Wars and The Black Hole (see below), they sound pretty damn similar.Wow, I couldn't see less in common between SW and The Black Hole if you paid me. :p

20,000 Leagues is the story of Captain Nemo, his super-advanced (for the time) submarine the Nautilus, and the passengers he takes on. Nemo has been using the Nautilus to damage other ships under the guise of being a sea monster, a group sets out to hunter the sea monster only to have their ship attacked by it, some of them - a scientist and a seaman - are thrown overboard and wind up on the monster, discovering it to be a ship. They're taken inside the Nautilus to meet the brilliant Captain Nemo who is on a quest for scientific knowledge, but also a revenge against civilization. The scientist wants to stay with Nemo in his travels around the globe in the name of science while the seaman tries to escape Nemo's clutches. Nemo and the scientist have appreciation for each other because of their expertise in sciences. They travel to far off places and have character conflicts throughout, eventually the Nautilus is attacked by a giant squid which kills a crewmember and sends Nemo into emotional fits. In the Disney film, Nemo has a secret island base which is discovered by the military and Nemo would rather destroy his base than have his knowledge be taken away from him, the crew agrees and Nemo's prematurely killed as the place self-destructs taking out the Nautilus and its crew but our heroes escape the suicidal crew's clutches and survive the destruction of the Nautilus and her base.

plasticfetish
02-19-2007, 06:11 AM
That's why I haven't viewed Psycho.You should give it a try. I hear the director's pretty good.

JimJamBonds
02-19-2007, 12:16 PM
I thought this was a thread about Slicker's mamma. :(

JON9000
02-20-2007, 01:24 PM
How is that? Not trying to be an @ss here - but I've never seen "20,000 Leagues..." and based on my description (minus one big furry sidekick) of Star Wars and The Black Hole (see below), they sound pretty damn similar.

The Black Hole has robots and so does Star Wars. Star Wars is set in space, so is SW. There is about where the similarities end. Yes, it does become necessary at one point to rescue the girl, but that's any adventure movie.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, in terms of characters and interactions, is the blueprint for the Black Hole. Both sets of guests are more like prisoners, the captain in dark and mysterious, and the scientist guest forms an unhealthy admiration for the mad genius of his captor and his technological advances.

JediTricks
02-21-2007, 05:35 AM
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, in terms of characters and interactions, is the blueprint for the Black Hole. Both sets of guests are more like prisoners, the captain in dark and mysterious, and the scientist guest forms an unhealthy admiration for the mad genius of his captor and his technological advances.So that's what it's like to be concise. :p