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Tycho
08-20-2008, 10:02 AM
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side:

1) He was a slave and stressed as a very young child by being controlled by Watto and taunted (and endangered) by Sebulba. It made him competitive and self-reliant to an extreme.

2) A Jedi should have been sheltered from any impressions as a child - except those that taught objectivity and dispassionate evaluation of everything WITHOUT emotion. Anakin was too old to be conditioned that way. On top of it, he was basically "adopted" by a Jedi Knight who was completely inexperienced with being a Master and who's training was still not really complete. The knewly knighted warrior defeates a Sith Lord, so the Jedi High Council, in a bad decision Yoda disagreed with, grants Obi-Wan everything he wants and was too emotionally invested in. Now a 24 year old is training a 9 year old. You don't even have parents in the ordinary world who are only 15 years in age separated.

3) Anakin longs for and is far too preocuppied with feminine affections. He associates them with his mother and with Padme - as she did become a huge part of his greatest adventure when he was 9 years old. A major war for freedom and independence on a planetary scale is kind of a big deal. Before the Clone Wars, Jedi Padawans didn't even have so much experience at that age. They can be apprenticed at age 13.

4) When he's 19, Anakin's mother is brutalized and killed by Tusken Raiders. His overly self-reliant nature has already made him difficult and hard to control during his training, even as Obi-Wan struggles to catch up. Now his anger gets out of control and he strikes for revenge.

5) Padme, pregnant, now has her life in danger - from childbirth no less. Palpatine learns Anakin can be tempted towards Sith teachings with saving Padme as his motivation.

OK - so far 1-5 is all good, actually. Now it takes a turn for the worse in some ways.

6) Upon learning Palpatine is a Sith Master, Anakin strikes Mace Windu to prevent him from destroying Palpatine. He is guilty right there of aiding the Sith Lord, and his actions were complicit in the death of a Jedi High Council Member (not to mention the Sith Lord had just killed 3 more that Anakin should've been aware of - as he saw them leave with Mace). Anakin can't return to the High Council and not have them "see through him" (his guilt) by his actions. He let his emotions force him to take Palpatine's side.

7) Now Palpatine convinces Anakin that the Jedi younglings and the old and retired instructors, basically any Force-user at the Temple, must be eliminated. Palpatine is right, that if the Temple is shut down, these orphans who can use the Force, will instinctively do so to survive. The result would be a new, internalized Civil War, starting right there on Coruscant. You'd fight to not be kicked out of your home too. Given appocalyptic power at your disposal, it could get quite messy for the guy trying to repossess your home (Palpatine in this case). So anyway, Anakin goes well beyond the point of no return.

You know - I guess it works, but Lucas was not the best writer and he could have had someone help the script out some more to really explain all this. I filled in so much between logical reasoning, and wishful thinking. I should not have had to make this effort if it was a perfect movie.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-20-2008, 07:21 PM
All of those things cumulatively show why it makes perfect sense why Anakin turned, along with the fact that Palpatine has been a mentor he has known and trusted for years. However, it was executed in such a way that people don't put all of those things together, and thus his turn seems to come from out of nowhere.

El Chuxter
08-20-2008, 07:30 PM
Jumping back to the previous Clone Wars cartoon, I thought the "hints" about Anakin's dark side (totally going crazy when fighting Asajj, crushing the Wat Tambor guy's windpipe when he was already defeated, and, of course, the vision of the warrior who kills his friends) were better than anything Lucas did.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-20-2008, 07:49 PM
Jumping back to the previous Clone Wars cartoon, I thought the "hints" about Anakin's dark side (totally going crazy when fighting Asajj, crushing the Wat Tambor guy's windpipe when he was already defeated, and, of course, the vision of the warrior who kills his friends) were better than anything Lucas did.
But those were just demonstrations of him having those tendencies, plus a vision of the future. We his dark side in the movies with his impatience and his wiping out of the Tuskens. What was necessary was to have a catalyst that finally pushes him over the edge. However, you don't just turn Sith at the drop of a hat. All of that build up led him to the point where he made the fateful decision. By then, he had lost his way and Obi-Wan and Padmé couldn't turn him back.

preacher
08-28-2008, 09:02 PM
This is sound reasoning as to why Anakin became a sith. These are the same conclusions I came up with.

But why in the hell, would Yoda say its cool for cry-baby Ani to teach? I hear what you guys are saying. But allow me to make some comparisons:

This would be like if I owned a Ferrari and I loned it to my son who I knew was reckless and then act surprised when my Ferrari is wrapped around a tree and my insurance premium doubles.

Or

I let somebody housesit for me, knowing that this person is a known kleptomaniac and then act surprised when my house is empty when I return and the housesitter has mysteriously disappeared.

Or

I let someone babysit my 9 month old daughter - but I've looked at the references, none of them check out, plus I do a background check and find out my babysitter has been arrested for child abuse. But I let bygones be bygones and hir the broad anyway. Then I act surprised when I view footage from my nanny cam that shows this babysitter beating my daughter for crying.

Or

I'm a student of education, still in college. I'm known to have a short temper, don't take orders very well, and I like to show off. But I get a job teaching middle schoolers anyway. The board of education acts surprised when I have a confrontation with the principal who didn't approve of my methods.

My point is if Lucas was trying to show Yoda's openness, making the decision to give Anakin a padawan wasn't the way to do it. This action makes Yoda seem very, very foolish. All the signs were there that Anakin would need to be handled with care. Tycho, you gave a very great analysis, and produced five sound reasons for Anakin's fall. All of which Yoda was cognizant of. And if not Yoda, then Mace Windu for sure. Yet in spite of this, Anakin is STILL allowed to instruct a youngling? Mace Windu should've smacked Yoda upside his point-eared head.

Maybe, there will be a good reason, as the cartoon continues. But I kind of doubt it.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-29-2008, 02:38 AM
I thought the reason given in the movie was really as good as it's going to get (or needs to be) . . . Yoda thought that having Anakin teach a Padawan and see her grow up and become her own person, he would learn to detach himself from things more, which was one of his most fundamental problems. Plus, he was a really damn good warrior, so that couldn't possibly hurt to have the best of the best training more Jedi.

Keep in mind, Yoda wasn't aware of the details of the Tusken Raider attack (as far as I know), just that Anakin was in pain around that time. He also didn't know about Anakin and Padme's relationship and marriage. Just, it seems, that he had some attachment issues that needed to be addressed.

Blue2th
08-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Yoda being aware of Anakin's attachment issues like you say, maybe though clouded Ashoka's future is, he knew she was going to die, and wanted Anakin to get used to losing the one's he's attached to.

Or

More than likely Yoda wanted Anakin to see a Padwan who is a lot like him mature, become a Jedi, then learn to let them go as it were. As in "You must learn to let go of the things you fear to loose" or something to that effect. There again getting used to letting go of someone he gets attached to.

El Chuxter
08-29-2008, 11:49 AM
More likely, Lucas said, "How do we appeal to the Hannah Montana crowd?"

I'm just saying, is all.

Phantom-like Menace
08-29-2008, 12:29 PM
Yoda being aware of Anakin's attachment issues like you say, maybe though clouded Ashoka's future is, he knew she was going to die, and wanted Anakin to get used to losing the one's he's attached to.

Wow, like giving a kid a hamster?:evil: That's kind of screwed up. I laughed, but that's because I'm screwed up too.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-29-2008, 02:20 PM
More likely, Lucas said, "How do we appeal to the Hannah Montana crowd?"

I'm just saying, is all.
With his magical foresight to see several years into the future. Just like how ROTS was an allegory for Iraq despite the fact that everything in it had been set up by AOTC, which was filmed in 2000 . . . ;) :D

Rocketboy
08-29-2008, 03:10 PM
Maybe it wasn't Hannah Montana, but Lizzie Maguire was pretty popular in the "tween" market at the time.

Blue2th
08-29-2008, 04:42 PM
Wow, like giving a kid a hamster?:evil: That's kind of screwed up. I laughed, but that's because I'm screwed up too.
Yeah, that is a screwed up thought now that you mention it. lol

bigbarada
08-29-2008, 06:50 PM
With his magical foresight to see several years into the future. Just like how ROTS was an allegory for Iraq despite the fact that everything in it had been set up by AOTC, which was filmed in 2000 . . . ;) :D

Usually an allegory for one war can be applied to just about ANY war that occurs. Aside from the "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" line, I don't see any specific connection between ROTS and the Iraq War.

However, that line can apply to many situations and is actually a paraphrase from the Bible.

It also makes Obi-Wan a Sith Lord because the statement, "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes" is an absolute. Thus Obi-Wan is a Sith Lord.;)

Rocketboy
08-29-2008, 11:23 PM
It also makes Obi-Wan a Sith Lord because the statement, "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes" is an absolute. Thus Obi-Wan is a Sith Lord.;)So, I'm guessing by that statement it means you are also a Sith Lord.

bigbarada
08-29-2008, 11:52 PM
So, I'm guessing by that statement it means you are also a Sith Lord.

Well, it would mean that everyone is a Sith Lord, which is what makes it such a stupid line on Obi-Wan's part.

Claiming that water is composed of 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom is an absolute and would make the scientist stating it a Sith Lord as well.

So, the statement: "There are no absolutes" could only logically be false. Because if it's true, then it makes itself false.

In order for "There are no absolutes" to be true, then that statement would have to be an absolute, which would automatically make it false.

Blue2th
08-30-2008, 12:15 AM
I want to be a Sith Lord, but so far I've only reached Dark Master. Maybe if I post more useless posts like this. :)

bigbarada
08-30-2008, 12:16 AM
I want to be a Sith Lord, but so far I've only reached Dark Master. Maybe if I post more useless posts like this. :)

Speaking of useless posts, isn't the correct quote, "Always in motion the future is"?

Blue2th
08-30-2008, 12:26 AM
Speaking of useless posts, isn't the correct quote, "Always in motion the future is"?
More like a useless quote.

If he didn't say it he should have. :yes:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-30-2008, 12:30 AM
Usually an allegory for one war can be applied to just about ANY war that occurs. Aside from the "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" line, I don't see any specific connection between ROTS and the Iraq War.
Exactly. I was saying, it was ridiculous that the critics all seemed to think that ROTS and Palpatine were supposed to be EXACT copies of Iraq and Bush, even though the characters and ideas were around for so much longer. I'm sure next time there's a war, people will look at the movie again and think it's a mirror of THAT war. Oh wait! George predicted the Russian invasion of Georgia in TPM; he must be a prophet . . . :D


It also makes Obi-Wan a Sith Lord because the statement, "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes" is an absolute. Thus Obi-Wan is a Sith Lord.
See: Figuratively Speaking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDx801nuENg)
(Yes, I'm still pimping that :D )

bigbarada
08-30-2008, 01:05 AM
See: Figuratively Speaking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDx801nuENg)
(Yes, I'm still pimping that :D )

How did I miss that? That's great!:D

Bel-Cam Jos
09-01-2008, 10:24 AM
In the most recent sw.com "Probe Droid" email (if anyone else gets those updates), it says that the ship Anakin "borrows" from the B'Omarr monastery becomes his own throughout the Clone Wars. Allow me to post...


Welcome back to the Homing Beacon, the official Star Wars email Newsletter
Stranded in a B'omarr monastery on Teth and cut off from his troops, Anakin Skywalker looks to a neighboring spire for a means of escape and finds it in an unlikely clunker of a starship, the Twilight. Ahsoka Tano makes short work of the enemy droids loading the ship, and the Jedi heroes soon blast off to continue their mission in the feature film, Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

Although we witness the ship ditch on Tatooine, we have not seen the last of the Twilight. Anakin presumably scares off the overzealous Jawas and reclaims the ship, and it becomes something of a hobby for him throughout The Clone Wars television series, an unofficial, unaffiliated ship he can use on "errands" not part of his Republic orders.

Fans have speculated on the Twilight's origins since images of the ship first appeared at 2007's Celebration IV convention. Its folding lower foil and lateral crossbeam remind many of a B-wing fighter. Its behind-the-scenes design origins, however, only stretch back to Episode III. Director Dave Filoni describes the Twilight as being taken from abandoned Erik Tiemens designs for a Coruscant firefighting ship.

There is an older connection the Twilight holds that dates back all the way to 1977, to the original A New Hope. As a beat up old spice freighter, the Twilight is the kernel of truth to Uncle Owen's lie about Anakin. Luke Skywalker's father was indeed a navigator on a spice freighter... from a certain point of view.
Now, I think this is both great and suspicious. But I like it; harkens back to the SW EU days when ANY quote or throw away line from the OT films was fair game for a storyline. Even fits with another Obi-Wan quote that gets analyzed frequently, too.

Battle Droid
09-01-2008, 11:04 AM
SWEET, I can't wait until Oct. 3rd! :D

Bosskman
09-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I bet anything Anakin and Owen meet up at some point in the cartoon and Anakin has his old spice freighter. Then Obi Wan come to get him for another damn fool idealistic crusade. To that Owen replies "Stay here anakin, don't get involved". That would be cool.

Blue2th
09-01-2008, 02:52 PM
More footage from The Clone Wars: http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/clonewars/

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-01-2008, 03:01 PM
Holy buggers, that looks awesome! :D

Mad Slanted Powers
09-01-2008, 04:38 PM
More footage from The Clone Wars: http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/clonewars/

Cool, looks like Y-Wings!

Bel-Cam Jos
09-01-2008, 10:09 PM
Cool, looks like Y-Wings!The fold-out poster in the CS soundtrack CD showed a pic of one, too.

Mad Slanted Powers
09-01-2008, 10:11 PM
The fold-out poster in the CS soundtrack CD showed a pic of one, too.

What is the CS soundtrack?

Rocketboy
09-01-2008, 10:56 PM
He meant CW.

Mad Slanted Powers
09-02-2008, 01:30 AM
He meant CW.

That's what I figured. No bad song lyrics of shame are required, since it is instrumental.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-02-2008, 06:46 PM
From Jedi Insider (http://jediinsider.com/index.php?catid=243&itemid=11305):

STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS, the first weekly television series from Lucasfilm Animation, premieres on Cartoon Network Friday, October 3 at 9 p.m. (ET, PT) with a special one-hour presentation that anchors the Network’s all-new night of fantasy, action and adventure. New series The Secret Saturdays and the current hit Ben 10: Alien Force join STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS for a night of non-stop adventure, exciting storytelling and innovative animation.

In the signature style of Lucasfilm Animation, STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS chronicles the adventures of Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Ahsoka Tano and other favorite STAR WARS characters as they struggle against the dark side during the divisive, action-packed Clone Wars. Each week, a new story in the galaxy-changing Clone Wars comes to center stage, brought to the screen by supervising director Dave Filoni and executive producer George Lucas.

Dwindling numbers of Jedi fight to maintain freedom and restore peace to the galaxy, using their army of genetically engineered clones against the seemingly never-ending droid army. The terrible conflict grows wider as our heroes are swept into the turmoil of war, while the evil Count Dooku, his assassin Asajj Ventress, their master Darth Sidious, the mechanical General Grievous and a rogue’s gallery of never-before-seen villains scheme to defeat them.

Cartoon Network’s new night of fantasy-adventure programming begins at 8 p.m. (ET, PT) with the series premiere of a new comedy-action series, The Secret Saturdays, from Cartoon Network, Porchlight Entertainment and creator Jay Stephens, about a family of world-saving adventure scientists. Doc, Drew and Zak Saturday live in a hidden base and are part of a network of scientists who protect against all the underlying evil in the world. To the Saturdays, ordinary folktales aren’t just legends, but real-life mysteries and adventures. Traveling from the Gobi Desert to the Marianas Trench, they explore ancient temples and bottomless caves and tangle with twisted villains, including the masked madman V.V. Argost and his half-human/half-giant spider.

Friday, October 3

8:00 p.m.
The Secret Saturdays (p)
8:30 p.m.
The Secret Saturdays (p)
9:00 p.m.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (p) "AMBUSH" Jedi Master Yoda is

on a secret mission to forge a treaty with the King of the
strategic system of Toydaria when his ship is ambushed by
Count Dooku. Yoda and three clone troopers must face off
against Count Dooku's dreaded assassin Ventress and her
massive droid army to prove the Jedi are strong enough to
protect the king and his people from the forces of the
war.

9:30 p.m.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (p) "RISING MALEVOLENCE"

Creating panic throughout the galaxy, a devastating
Separatist mystery weapon terrorizes the clone Starfleet.
Anakin and Ahsoka race to save Jedi Master Plo Koon and
his clone troopers in time.

Fridays Beginning October 10
8:00 p.m.
The Secret Saturdays (p)
8:30 p.m.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (r)
9:00 p.m.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (p)
9:30 p.m.
Ben 10: Alien Force (p)

Beginning Friday, October 10, new episodes of Cartoon Network’s hit original series Ben 10: Alien Force will follow premiere episodes of STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS. Ben 10: Alien Force originally premiered in April 2008 with record ratings as the most-watched original series premiere in Cartoon Network history. The animated series continues the Ben 10 saga five years later, when 15-year-old Ben Tennyson chooses to once again put on the OMNITRIX. He discovers that it has reconfigured his DNA and can now transform him into 10 brand-new aliens. Joined by his super-powered cousin Gwen Tennyson and his equally powerful former enemy Kevin Levin, Ben is on a mission to find his missing Grandpa Max. In order to save his Grandpa, Ben must defeat the evil DNALIENS, a powerful alien race intent on destroying the galaxy, starting with planet Earth.

Cartoon Network (CartoonNetwork.com), currently seen in more than 91 million U.S. homes and 160 countries around the world, is Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.’s ad-supported cable service offering the best in original, acquired and classic animated and live-action entertainment for kids and families. Overnight from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. Monday through Saturday and 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. Sunday (ET, PT), Cartoon Network shares its channel space with Adult Swim, a late-night destination showcasing original and acquired animation for young adults 18-34.

Turner Broadcasting System, Inc., a Time Warner company, creates and programs branded news, entertainment, animation and young adult media environments on television and other platforms for consumers around the world.

jedibear
09-02-2008, 09:49 PM
here's the link to the official CW site at Cartoon Network...
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/clonewars/

Check out that trailer...looks pretty awesome! Wish they had used that Grievous storyline for the movie instead of the Jabba one...but it least it'll start the series off with a bang...looks great seeing more Jedi/Clone action...Plo speaks! A Mon Cal Jedi! Luminara duels Ventress! And yes, that bratz Jedi is still there sounding like she just popped over from the mall...oh well. As long as the focus moves past her quickly, it should still be pretty good viewing...

El Chuxter
09-02-2008, 11:11 PM
Any idea if the Mon Cal is Bant Eerin? I'd actually make a point to watch if she's in it. IIRC, Obi-Wan says she's dead in Last of the Jedi, but we never found out how.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Sorry to disappoint, but it's not Bant. She'd be 33 at the start of the Clone Wars. That Padawan's name is Nahdar Vebb . . . there are major spoilers on his Wookieepedia page, too.

plasticfetish
09-03-2008, 02:56 AM
So, Friday nights? Oh, well... looks like I'll be missing this one on a regular basis. (Wonder if they'll be replaying episodes on another day though.)

El Chuxter
09-03-2008, 10:44 AM
Dang. Why wouldn't they use Bant? :(

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-03-2008, 11:35 AM
Dang. Why wouldn't they use Bant? :(
Because they wanted Kit to be with a Padawan in this episode apparently, and as I said, Bant would be an adult by now. And, again, look at Wookieepedia on his page to see a spoiler about Vebb; that may say why they introduced him for this episode . . .

bigbarada
09-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Dang. Why wouldn't they use Bant? :(

I've noticed that every time they get a new team to work on a Star Wars story, then that team is so excited about introducing their own creations into the universe, that they completely ignore any existing characters that might be better suited for the role.

Ando
09-03-2008, 01:08 PM
So, Friday nights? Oh, well... looks like I'll be missing this one on a regular basis. (Wonder if they'll be replaying episodes on another day though.)

TNT will be replaying The Clone Wars, but I am unsure of what day/time the repeats will be.

Neuroleptic
09-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Woah!

That preview was WAAAAAAY more interesting than the one for the da . . . rn movie that I'm totaly skipping. Makes me almost want to buy cable to see if it's any good.

Don't know why, but my favorite part of it was probably the most silly. The part where grevious puts the smack down on the battle droid.

El Chuxter
09-03-2008, 07:25 PM
Wow. What BigB said about them not paying attention applies to Plo Koon as well. In the comics and novels, it's always been implied he has a very strange voice, not a British accent.

It actually looked passable until Ahsoka showed up. And the Battle Droid brown-nosing Grievous was the nail in the coffin.

cookiemonster
09-03-2008, 08:18 PM
I cant see why people are hating this, actually maybe I can - I suppose it was the same as when the Prequel Movies altered things for the Original Trilogy series.

Well as people told me when I was objecting, what you going to do, stop watching is your only real anwser, however I think this is going to be a great success - it is already better than the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones in my opinion, the only Prequel Movie this hasnt gotten better than is the Revenge of the Sith.

Have we ever heard Plo Koon speak, if we have I cant remember it, so who's to say this isnt some kind of universal translator he uses, god knows whats in the mask, that Lucas wants to put in there, and more to the point do you think a kid is going to be bothered, as long as Plo Koon is back flipping and jedi styling they will love it.

And as far as Ahsoka well if you dont like her, maybes the best option is not to watch it, as I think she is going to be a prominent character.

Tenric78
09-03-2008, 08:22 PM
I thought this looked awesome, but even if it IS the best thing ever people are intent on hating it.

El Chuxter
09-03-2008, 08:33 PM
I can't "hate" it, as I've not seen it. I'm just making a preliminary judgment based on what I've seen. This does look less silly than the ads for the movie did.

I'm just sick of cartoons having to "talk down" to kids. It makes them unwatchable for adults.

Rocketboy
09-03-2008, 08:44 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned John Cleese being in Clone Wars.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-04-2008, 06:13 PM
ENI (http://enewsi.com/news.php?catid=194&itemid=13898) has a new article with a bunch of awesome images.

As for Plo's voice, the only thing I have actually heard from him was the "gaw . . . bu-LAH!!!" scream he always let out in Jedi Power Battles. It wasn't too different from the CW voice, but it was just a scream . . . there's another clip on his Wookieepedia page but I don't want to have to download something just to hear ogg files.

Ando
09-04-2008, 06:20 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned John Cleese being in Clone Wars.

Sweet! I was wondering who belonged to that voice!

Bel-Cam Jos
09-04-2008, 07:51 PM
So, Friday nights? Oh, well... looks like I'll be missing this one on a regular basis. (Wonder if they'll be replaying episodes on another day though.)Wait, what else can you do on Friday nights?

(whisper, whisper)

Really? Anything else?

(whisper, whisper)

Wow! That, too? Are you sure?

(whisper, whisper)

Hmm... broading one's horizons, eh?

I'll probably give it a look-see every now and then.

Rocketboy
09-04-2008, 07:51 PM
Sweet! I was wondering who belonged to that voice!It wasn't Cleese doing the voice. The dude just looks like him, and has a British accent.

Kidhuman
09-04-2008, 08:12 PM
I kind of hope they replay it at another time

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-25-2008, 06:21 PM
Here (http://tv.ign.com/dor/objects/826173/star-wars-the-clone-wars/videos/sw_clonewars_tv_092408.html) is a clip from "Ambush." Looks like the droids are still as retarded as ever, but Yoda is kicking some serious a**. Looks pretty sweet.

Blue2th
09-25-2008, 08:09 PM
Here (http://tv.ign.com/dor/objects/826173/star-wars-the-clone-wars/videos/sw_clonewars_tv_092408.html) is a clip from "Ambush." Looks like the droids are still as retarded as ever, but Yoda is kicking some serious a**. Looks pretty sweet.

This is going to be great! I like this scene, Yoda doesn't have to say anything.
Noticed a Battle Droid with black trim on his face.

Beast
09-26-2008, 07:23 PM
DVD Active has news and more about the upcoming DVD/Blu-Ray release of the movie.

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/star-wars-the-clone-wars3.html

Looks good. I love the Target Exclusive cover art. That will be mine.

Phantom-like Menace
09-26-2008, 08:09 PM
You know, I don't remember the Droids or Ewoks cartoons changing my life nor even my opinion of Star Wars. I'm pretty sure I would find both of those series unwatchable today. I don't see why this cartoon should be held to any higher standard. Would it be just because Lucas is more involved or is it just because we've grandfathered the earlier products in as acceptable?

It always seeme like Lucas is correct, at least to an extent, that we've grown up and can't accept that our tastes have changed a little more than Star Wars has. And of course I will have to qualify this statement by saying that the prequels truly are inferior to the sequels or I'll be defending points I haven't made in short time.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-26-2008, 11:10 PM
Well, either way, Kit Fisto has a slightly rastafarian accent, as seen on the currently-on-TV preview special.

If that isn't the coolest damn thing ever, then I don't know what is. :D

Battle Droid
09-28-2008, 10:51 PM
SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!













From, http://tv.ign.com/objects/142/14253314.html

Episode 3: "SHADOW OF MALEVOLENCE," Friday, Oct. 10, 9 p.m.

With the help of his Padawan Ahsoka and Jedi Master Plo Koon, Anakin utilizes new long-range Y-wing bombers to lead a bold strike on General Grievous warship the Malevolence and its destructive weapon.

Episode 4: "DESTROY MALEVOLENCE," Friday, Oct. 17, 9 p.m.

Padmé Amidala and C-3PO are taken hostage by General Grievous, leaving Anakin and Obi-Wan to save the Senator and complete the destruction of the Malevolence.

Episode 5: "ROOKIES," Friday, Oct. 24, 9 p.m.

Alone on a distant outpost, Clone Commanders Rex and Cody must inspire their rookie unit to believe in themselves to stave off a Droid Commando invasion.

Blue2th
09-28-2008, 11:47 PM
We get to see Grievous in action. :thumbsup: Anakin never meets him till ROTS, so other Jedi will get to fight him.
The fifth episode with just Clones sounds cool.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-29-2008, 12:55 AM
Hopefully the multi-episode arcs won't get long in the tooth, but that said, I can't wait to see Grievous kick a lot of serious *** in this series! :D

Also, that clip in the preview show with the Y-wings flying near the aiwhas (or similar creatures) looked absolutely beautiful. Oh, and Padmé seems to get captured an awful lot. :p

cookiemonster
10-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Ok loving Kit's voice, and the Mon Calamari's voice as well, loving the Y-Wings, I think this series is going to make me love the Prequel Era, which I loathed.

Cant wait to hear Plo Koon speak as well.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-03-2008, 01:32 AM
Seeing more and more preview stuff is making me more excited. Unfortunately there's a laser Queen show tomorrow that my friend and I have been planning on going to for a long time so I will watch the episodes later on the DVR at home or just wait until Sunday when they replay them. But I really don't think I can wait that long. :D

Blue2th
10-03-2008, 04:08 AM
I wonder if and when the episodes will be shown on the web?

Jaff
10-03-2008, 09:36 PM
What's with the one liner quotes after the Clone Wars logo appears at the begginning of the show.

I guess I enjoyed the shows. I didn't much like how the Battle Droids were so stupid and non-robotic. I did enjoy seeing plo-koon talking. Seeing Anakin walking on the bridge of the star destroyer with his padawan was kind of cool too.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-03-2008, 10:27 PM
I gotta say I thought the episodes tonight were really fantastic. I do agree that the Droids went from funny to somewhat irritating, but aside from that, it was pretty kick arse. Yoda was great, and doing his slightly crazy act from ESB and his discussion of the force with the clones reminded me of some of the great spiritual moments of the Saga.

The second episode was also strong with more setup of Anakin being a teacher to Tano, which was refreshing to see.

All in all, i'm REALLY VERY pleased with the show. I do need to tweak my DVR as it cut in somewhat late (just as the quote was ending) and ended early on both accounts. They're replaying the series on sunday night, so i'm going to rerecord them then. :thumbsup:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-03-2008, 10:30 PM
I wonder if and when the episodes will be shown on the web?
As has been said a few places, starwars.com and cartoonnetwork.com will have the episodes a week after they air for free. iTunes also will have them for purchase.

Rocketboy
10-03-2008, 10:42 PM
The voice-overs suck.
The battle droids suck.
Ventress sucks.
Ahsoka sucks.
The lip-syncing sucks.

If it weren't for the last minute Deuce appearance, I'd be tempted to say the whole thing sucked.

Beast
10-03-2008, 11:29 PM
The movie was great. But the episodes kicked arse.

Especially the Yoda one. And I loved that Plo-Koon sounded like Sean Connery a bit.

Can't wait for some of the teased upcoming episodes. Especially the Jar Jar one.

C-3PO: "The ship has been destroyed."
Padme: "Battle Droids?"
C-3PO: "No."
Padme: "Jar Jar?"

jediguy
10-03-2008, 11:59 PM
I loved it and I can't wait for the rest

did anyone catch the phrase at the start of each episode?

I wanted to write them down, but they were on for so short a time I didn't get the chance

stillakid
10-04-2008, 12:43 AM
Well, it's about as good as the movie. Meh. :ermm:

I'm still not a fan of this animation style. The aliens and exaggerated characters are just okay, but real people (like Anakin) just look creepy. It's almost one step above The Year Without a Santa Claus and Heat Miser.

The stories are ... not very gripping. The exaggerated characters, like Plo Kloon and Grievous are the most fun, but otherwise, meh. The whole thing is just lacking "something." Can't put my finger on it, but it's as if there is no passion in it... imagine a graph where the "line" is running fairly horizontal instead of having spikes and valleys... a story without major ebbs and flows... that's this series so far. Just "average" across the line. It doesn't even start with the signature Star Wars BANG of the John Williams theme. We join vanilla in progress and never find any fruit.

They should've stuck with the Samarai Jack guys to do this one.

On the other hand, the teaser commercials that were running all day on Cartoon Network were pretty cool. :)

Tycho
10-04-2008, 03:30 AM
I agree with just about everything Stillakid just posted above.

To be fair, I'm biased. I'm pretty burnt out on the Clone Wars era in Star Wars.

I just bought Karen Traviss' book "Order 66," and I'm eager to read that. However, I'm ready to read about other eras in Star Wars history. I enjoy the Legacy and KOTOR comics a lot for exactly that reason.

And the battle droids were just ridiculous. I envision those droids as operating from a central mind - like on the Droid Control Ship in TPM. Now I think the Super Battle Droids were more indpendent, as were the OOM-9 models, but it's gotten ridiculous with their mishaps.

Ashoka's character really feels forced in there. And I hate how they say "early in the Clone Wars." Bull!

The Clone Wars lasted 3 years: 22 bBY to 19 bBY (Battle of Yavin - Luke being 19 years old in ANH).

Geonosis (AOTC) was 22 years before Yavin. I don't think Anakin was knighted until 19 bBY - very close to the time of ROTS - based on the dates given for the rest of the EU novels and books I read.

That means that this business with Ashoka has to be taking place less than 1 year before ROTS. Then that would set it for "LATE in the Clone Wars."

Who is checking their facts?

Phantom-like Menace
10-04-2008, 10:07 AM
I loved all the stuff with the clones, and it's always cool to watch Yoda in action. It seemed a little forced that the council would be that upset that Anakin went to look for Plo Koon. First, there were next to no consequences, and second that's well expected from Anakin.

I had no great problem with the show. I enjoyed parts and was annoyed by parts, but the only annoying parts were the battle droids, and I know each week that they will be there. I can conjugate the verb suck and decline the noun and adjective ad nauseum in a fan freakout, or I can ignore them and enjoy the show. I do the latter. I thought it worked better on the small screen, and really look forward to next week.

Still no problem with Ahsoka, and it's a shame that all of the people who passionately hated Jar-Jar ten years ago and claim Ahsoka is more annoying won't realize they're massively overstating for another ten years. I hated Jar-Jar passionately ten years ago, and hate him passionately today. Ahsoka is not remotely as annoying and never will be.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-04-2008, 10:35 AM
I loved it and I can't wait for the rest

did anyone catch the phrase at the start of each episode?

I wanted to write them down, but they were on for so short a time I didn't get the chance
The first with Yoda's episode was something like "Great leaders inspire others to greatness," and I distinctly recall that the second with Anakin's was "Try to remember what the second line is." :rolleyes:

Anyone notice the escape pod designation of #1-9-7-7? And that Plo seemed to be affected by the vacuum in his motions, which the machine droids were not; sounds semi-scientific.

I also loved the ESB-giggling Yoda style. The battle droids were fun but not always funny.

I liked the re-use of SW lines such as "No, that one goes there, this one goes here," "but not that strong," "then I cannot help you," etc.

So, am I going to cancel my Friday night plans to watch this religiously every week? Probably not, but if I'm home and it's 9pm, I'll like, prolly watch 'em.

pbarnard
10-04-2008, 02:49 PM
Well I enjoyed the episodes. I like the Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda (and other shows) quote at the beginning aspect to the show. I liked the interaction of the clones and Jedi. I loath Ashoka. I only wished the building's fire alarm didn't go off making me miss 15 minutes of the second episode.

Rocketboy
10-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Still no problem with Ahsoka, and it's a shame that all of the people who passionately hated Jar-Jar ten years ago and claim Ahsoka is more annoying won't realize they're massively overstating for another ten years. I hated Jar-Jar passionately ten years ago, and hate him passionately today. Ahsoka is not remotely as annoying and never will be.Well, I liked Jar Jar back in '99 and I still like Jar Jar today.
Ashoka needs to mature and she needs to do it relatively fast. As it stands now, she is easily my least favorite Star Wars character (over such turds as Darth Maul, Ventress, and Ziro. Yes, Ziro.). I cringe when she appears (and double cringe when I hear those damn nicknames).

pbarnard
10-04-2008, 06:46 PM
Well, I liked Jar Jar back in '99 and I still like Jar Jar today.
Ashoka needs to mature and she needs to do it relatively fast. As it stands now, she is easily my least favorite Star Wars character (over such turds as Darth Maul, Ventress, and Ziro. Yes, Ziro.). I cringe when she appears (and double cringe when I hear those damn nicknames).

Ditto. I don't mind Jar-Jar. He is what he is. And he's the ultimate symbol of Palpatine's evil machniations.

But I loath absolutely loath and wish Ashoka does make it to knight so there will be some video game where we get to play as Anakin and go through the Jedi Temple and we mutilate her. I'm talking, we throw her head and limbs into the Council Chamber before we butcher the younglings hate her. She goes to hate. The rest, Fett, Maul, Ventress, Durge, etc go to overhyped throw away do nothings.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-04-2008, 09:14 PM
I like her. If not for her, they might not have rescued Master Koon.

sith_killer_99
10-04-2008, 09:24 PM
Well, my daughter is a huge fan of the new cartoon.:thumbsup:

Beast
10-04-2008, 09:35 PM
Well, my daughter is a huge fan of the new cartoon.:thumbsup:
Just like the Tobacco Industry. Hook 'em when they're young.

sith_killer_99
10-04-2008, 09:47 PM
Just like the Tobacco Industry. Hook 'em when they're young.

Yep, I took her to see the new movie a few weeks ago, she loved it. She was a little confused about the cartoon, she originally thought the DVD was being released on October 3rd, not realizing that the cartoon was going to be a series. She was happy to stay up late last night and watch the new cartoon.:D

Tycho
10-05-2008, 02:14 AM
On DirectTV I get the show at 6pm and thus it doesn't interfere with my Friday night plans at all.

So Ashoka? I think that maybe she'll get lost or leave the Jedi Order.

They'll undoubtedly never traumatize children by KILLING her - even though they really should. If the show were well-written, which I don't sense yet, Anakin should grow fond of her (as his Padawan - remember he's secretly married and totally whipped on Padme). Then when she dies - maybe horribly at Dooku's or Ventress' hands (or if General Grievous could take her), Anakin gets further riled. He's already got his mother's death irking him at this stage - then later by ROTS, he's worried about Padme and their unborn child.

Making Anakin grieve for Ashoka (because I don't think I will be, hehe), keeps the bi-polar Jedi further off-balance. I guess that would be good writing.

The whole thing is just way too forced. This show is going to go on for 5 years worth of episodes? The whole darn Clone Wars only lasted 3, and as I stated before: Anakin has what? Maybe 6 months as a full-knight where he'd be even allowed to take on an apprentice before she's long-gone by ROTS?

Maybe Ashoka doesn't die. Maybe she even lives to confront Darth Vader. Maybe she even learns the truth about her former master? Then maybe she'll have to die. Could DARTH VADER show mercy to any Jedi? Perhaps his own former apprentice?

I guess they could do some interesting stuff here. The show might have to cover ROTS and go on to the Dark Times afterward.

Bosskman
10-05-2008, 07:25 AM
It might be sorta cool for a future novel where Vader does kill her, semi-reluctantly, foreshadowing his doubts about killing Luke.

Bosskman
10-05-2008, 07:26 AM
I said "might be sorta cool". As long as they don't try to retcon the whole 6 movies to make some of the vague lines a possible reference to her.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-05-2008, 10:46 AM
I also wondered if that clone who was holding the rotating Gatling-type gun would say "ain't got time to bleed" at some point.

"Artoo-ie" sure is quite annoying; not the droid, the "nickname" for him.

But I like it. I'll probably really enjoy the DVD more, once it's out, too.

dr_evazan22
10-05-2008, 11:51 AM
I like it so far, but I'm not blown away by it. A little disappointed that there was a similar plot in the first ep as in the movie. Well, not the same, but close enough for me to be underwhelmed.

I really liked the clones, the BD's a little less. LOVED Yoda! Too bad they time travelled ESB Yoda back to the CW. What we saw in that one cartoon was so out of character with what was shown in the PT. I mean, Yoda helped lead the Jedi for centuries before the the PT. In AOTC he talked about the arrogance (or whatever) of some Jedi. I think that two decades of exile to reflect on his own arrogance is the reason for the more "open minded", mystical Yoda of ESB. Its weird, but I see refelctions of the PT era Jedi in some of the performance of ESB and ROJ Yoda and Obi.
Some inspiration for this post belongs to Order 66 by Karen travis

Phantom-like Menace
10-05-2008, 12:25 PM
I've always said that I suspect Ahsoka will survive and face Darth Vader, who will probably kill her, during the Purge.


Well, I liked Jar Jar back in '99 and I still like Jar Jar today.


Ditto. I don't mind Jar-Jar. He is what he is. And he's the ultimate symbol of Palpatine's evil machniations.

And even this by itself proves the prequel universe is not as bad as it's made out to be on the Internet. If some can actually make themselves like Jar-Jar, and some people can actually make themselves like Ahsoka, we just might accept that some parts of the movie are aimed at a different audience. I'm curious though if Ahsoka is so bad someone will make a Phantom Edit excising or largely excising her presence from the cartoon.

Rocketboy
10-05-2008, 12:40 PM
The difference is I never made myself like Jar Jar.
If you have to try to/make yourself like a character then that is a failure on the part of the creators.
Like Jar Jar, Ahsoka is intended to be a likable main character. Where Jar Jar was mainly the comic relief, it was a success (IMO), and Ahsoka is intended to be one of the "big" heroes. I happen to find her too annoying to care about in any way. As I said before, she needs to do a TON of maturing.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-05-2008, 12:48 PM
The difference is I never made myself like Jar Jar.
If you have to try to/make yourself like a character then that is a failure on the part of the creators.
Like Jar Jar, Ahsoka is intended to be a likable main character. Where Jar Jar was mainly the comic relief, it was a success (IMO), and Ahsoka is intended to be one of the "big" heroes. I happen to find her too annoying to care about in any way. As I said before, she needs to do a TON of maturing.
I don't see her as a "big" hero. She is the annoying sidekick, but I don't find her too annoying. Of course she needs some maturing. She's just a kid after all.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-05-2008, 01:22 PM
It's hard to say what will happen to Ahsoka, especially since she's never been mentioned before. If she died during the war, that would be another thing weighing on Anakin's mind, but who knows if he would have mentioned it in ROTS (he was still thinking about Shmi and worrying about Padmé at the time). If she became a knight (unlikely) or was reassigned or something, that might be more plausible as Anakin could try to let go of her, but you'd think they'd still be hanging around each other like Anakin and Obi-Wan did in ROTS even after Anakin was no longer his padawan. I really don't know, and apparently Dave Filoni and George Lucas don't even know, as they have discussed about four possible scenarios.

Phantom-like Menace
10-05-2008, 04:30 PM
The difference is I never made myself like Jar Jar.

I kind of figured someone would jump on that. I was being facetious. The implication was that people who hate Jar-Jar and people who hate Ahsoka would each think the other side couldn't possibly have genuine affection for the character they champion.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-05-2008, 11:47 PM
I finally got to watch the episodes today and they were awesome!

"Ambush" moved a little slowly and the battle droids were still stupid but Yoda was a serious pimp. I loved when he made the SBD fire on the other droids! I also loved the use of Yoda's theme throughout the episode, which I felt the movie could have used more.

"Rising Malevolence" was a better episode, though. Plo Koon was freakin' sweet! And Ahsoka was actually not half bad this time out. That was probably due to her limited role, though. :p

The DVR stopped during the previews for next time, but what I'm seeing looks great. I really am looking forward to next week's show, when Anakin uses those spiffy Y-wings to bomb the s*** out of the Malevolence! :D

Rocketboy
10-06-2008, 12:28 AM
And Ahsoka was actually not half bad this time out.You're right...she was all bad! [/StatlerandWaldorf]

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-06-2008, 01:04 AM
I just watched them again when they re-aired and I actually liked them better. I got to see the previews and, again, it looks freakin' sweet. The interaction about Jar Jar was hilarious. lol

El Chuxter
10-06-2008, 01:39 AM
Wow.

I missed these Friday and tried to watch them tonight. Despite all my misgivings, I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised. I was actually let down, even with my low expectations.

This show is an embarrassment to Star Wars. The writing is choppy, the action slow, the characters unsympathetic, and the animation clunky, at best. I was especially annoyed by how not a single character or vehicle seemed to interact with the background in a realistic fashion, and they seemed to be sort of floating a few inches off the ground at all times.

After ten minutes of unbearably slow "humor" from the battle droids, I turned it off. Hoping this episode was a fluke, I turned back on at 9:30, and wasn't able to last even ten full minutes of this one, partly due to having to listen to Ahsoka and her unnecessary pandering to the High School Musical crowd on top of the blistering excitement of watching Plo Koon sit still in an escape pod.

I've said before Star Wars was becoming what Star Trek became in the 1990s, an ever-worsening series of spinoffs that become less and less interesting. I was wrong. Star Trek never went this low; even Enterprise was still okay enough for me to sit through an entire episode.

And for the record, I thought Jar Jar was overused in TPM, but never exactly "hated" him. In fact, I think his being relegated to marginal status in AOTC and ROTS after being so prominent in TPM is one of the great failures of the prequel trilogy as a whole.

JEDIpartner
10-06-2008, 09:25 AM
I have to say that I really enjoyed the first one tremendously. I'm glad they brought Yoda back with some of that silly ESB humour back into the mix. There wasn't much story there but it was enough to make its point: Yoda is clever; the CIS is bad; you can still defeat the enemy even if you are outnumbered.

The second one was all right for me. It came up a little short for some reason or another. Since we don't really know much about Plo Koon, I thought this was not the best way to get to know him or care much about what happens to him. A little more backgroud would've been nice before they put him in peril like this.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-06-2008, 09:31 AM
I have to say that I really enjoyed the first one tremendously. I'm glad they brought Yoda back with some of that silly ESB humour back into the mix. There wasn't much story there but it was enough to make its point: Yoda is clever; the CIS is bad; you can still defeat the enemy even if you are outnumbered.

The second one was all right for me. It came up a little short for some reason or another. Since we don't really know much about Plo Koon, I thought this was not the best way to get to know him or care much about what happens to him. A little more backgroud would've been nice before they put him in peril like this.Perhaps the connection to Ahsoka was meant to provide some of the reason to care about him. Then again, since people hate her so much, they might be blaming Plo Koon for bringing her into the Jedi Order.

Rocketboy
10-06-2008, 10:14 AM
And for the record, I thought Jar Jar was overused in TPM, but never exactly "hated" him. In fact, I think his being relegated to marginal status in AOTC and ROTS after being so prominent in TPM is one of the great failures of the prequel trilogy as a whole.Where is the Congregation when you need 'em?

Droid
10-06-2008, 11:27 AM
So in future episodes:

Episode 4: "DESTROY MALEVOLENCE," Friday, Oct. 17, 9 p.m.

Padmé Amidala and C-3PO are taken hostage by General Grievous, leaving Anakin and Obi-Wan to save the Senator and complete the destruction of the Malevolence.

Episode 5: "ROOKIES," Friday, Oct. 24, 9 p.m.

Alone on a distant outpost, Clone Commanders Rex and Cody must inspire their rookie unit to believe in themselves to stave off a Droid Commando
invasion.

Are we really to believe that General Grievous once took Padme hostage? Give me a break. Funny that never came up in ROTS.

And CLONES need inspiration? Isn't that the whole point of clones? They have no fear, no doubts, no emotions. They just do what they're told?

I don't watch this show, but these two episodes sound really dumb.

preacher
10-06-2008, 11:55 AM
[QUOTE=Tycho;641450]

The whole thing is just way too forced. This show is going to go on for 5 years worth of episodes? The whole darn Clone Wars only lasted 3, and as I stated before: Anakin has what? Maybe 6 months as a full-knight where he'd be even allowed to take on an apprentice before she's long-gone by ROTS?
/QUOTE]

My whole problem with this cartoon isn't Ashoka as a character, but Ashoka as a plot element. Anakin would have never, ever, EVER, been given a padawan. No way in hell. Mace Windu distrusts him and knows that Anakin has this huge cloud over him. He has even gone so far as to describe him as dangerous. And Yoda! Wtf man? In Phantom Menace he had grave reservations. In Attack of the Clones he senses terrible terrible pain in Anakin. Then he suddenly throws a youngling his way to train? Not everyone is a good teacher George. Chandra Leavy for example. Indeed some people should never even have children. Tom Cruise comes to mind. Anakin falls into this category. He is too self absorbed in trying to prove to everyone he is the chosen one. Mace and Yoda would've recognized this. And actually in the movies they did just that.

Yeah, I watched this show on Friday. Parts of it were cool, parts of it were clearly intended to attract a younger audience. Finally we get to see Plo Koon in action. More Toydarians. Asajj Ventress being completely humiliated by Yoda. The use of the ion cannon was neat to see again. I had wondered what the impact of the enemy having such a device would be. And now I know. There is enough cool snipits that I will probably watch more episodes.

The droids are very ewok-ish, and maybe a bit over-the-top. Bottom line, you have to suspend everything you know already from the other three prequel stories to fully enjoy this. It just doesn't flow very well and the continuity it introduces between AOTC and ROTS is awful. So glad I didn't spend $8 is the movie theatre to see the pilot.

Tycho
10-06-2008, 02:40 PM
I agree with Preacher, but may I just summarize the whole phenomenon I think is going on here: this show is just NOT for most adult fans.

It may be good for the kiddies and keep the toy pegs emptying so new orders can arrive with the figures us adults want, who remain in the hobbie for every last cantina alien.

Now that's been said, I'll answer Preacher on one thing: Anakin was likely given a padawan to help straighten him out. What he thinks works for him - going his own unorthodox way - is not the correct way to train a Jedi.

So Anakin will have to teach Ashoka all he learned from Obi-Wan, in theory. He's the ultimate "do as I say, not as I do" master, and Yoda knows that Ashoka will call him out on that.

So in effect, having Anakin train a padawan, will force some more Jedi training back upon him. Anakin is not yet a Sith, so he is not going to mis-train Ashoka in a completely non-Jedi fashion. In fact, when he took his title Darth Vader, he just began his Sith Training that day, with Order 66.

As expressed with his conversation with Palpatine at the opera in ROTS, Anakin previously held only the Jedi's view of the Sith (as he would while training Ashoka).

"It was said [he] would destroy the Sith..."

El Chuxter
10-06-2008, 04:05 PM
I'll go farther than preacher. Not only is Anakin having a padawan inconsistent with the prequel movies, but the fact that it was added to the story after ROTS, meaning it couldn't be acknowledged in that movie, is some of the shoddiest storytelling I've ever seen.

Combine that with things like Padme being captured by Grievous, and you undermine what integrity there is in ROTS.

Phantom-like Menace
10-06-2008, 06:02 PM
In saying the council would have never given Anakin an apprentice, aren't we using the same logic that would say Anakin would never be put on the Jedi Council, never be made a knight and even never be trained to begin with? Anything could have happened behind the scenes.

I'd wonder why anyone who isn't ready to train an apprentice would be made a knight anyway. Knighthood doesn't seem to have much meaning if it doesn't imply you can begin training an apprentice.

Plus, you all have to remember, Yoda trained a guy who became a Sith, and that future Sith's apprentice was Qui-Gon who was in no way shape or form evil. How many arguments do you think the Council went through to decide they didn't sense darkness in Yoda's choice of apprentice or Dooku's?

Besides, I'm sure a future episode will give us a reason we can tear apart out of hand if we just wait. If it helps alleviate the wait, we can already start planning how we'll pick apart this nonsensical yet unrevealed reason.

preacher
10-06-2008, 07:23 PM
In saying the council would have never given Anakin an apprentice, aren't we using the same logic that would say Anakin would never be put on the Jedi Council, never be made a knight and even never be trained to begin with? Anything could have happened behind the scenes.

Except for one thing - the storytelling in the prequels was at least consistent in that each choice to incoctrinate Anakin further into the Jedi order was a concern with the council. From Obi'Wan's blatant defiance of Yoda in TPM to Mace's unease with allowing Anakin to accompany him to arrest Palpatine in ROTS. Now, I have not seen the pilot episodes that were shown in the theater, but from what I can gather from other posts Ahsoka was just more or less thrown in without little explanation. There is nothing to suggest that allowing Anakin to train a youngling was a concern.

I'm a father. And every once in awhile I get fliers in my neighborhood that are mug shots of registered sex offenders. Anakin isn't as lost as one of these Pervs, but he is a known deviant of sorts and for me entrusting either to teach a child is just plain stupid. At the very least he is an angry young man. There is no way I would ever let my children talk with Anakin much less go on adventures to be taught by him. Overprotective? Damn right. My kids are my greatest treasure.

So no this cartoon doesn't have adult sensability. It breaks all continuity with the other and Lucas has seemed to forget that Anakin is a few cans short of a six-pack. Would he let someone like Anakin (immature, disrepectful, bratty) teach his kids? If the answer is no then The Clone Wars is insencere. If the answer is yes shame on him.

Yes people can and sometimes do change. But Anakin didn't. We have the luxury of having a crystal ball to see how dark he became.

Bosskman
10-06-2008, 08:17 PM
I just hioe Anakin never meets Grievous in this show. That would be a major contradiction to ROTS.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-06-2008, 09:05 PM
But giving Ahsoka to Anakin was a way to make him change. They wanted him to grow up, so to speak, as he trained another Jedi, and learned to let go of attachments. It obviously didn't work, but they gave it a shot. As unstable as he is (as shown to the audience), he is still the most powerful Jedi of the time, or at least one of the most powerful.

And they've said once or twice that they're going to play around the fact that Anakin and Grievous have never met face to face before (they've fought in ships in the EU at least once before, in Labyrinth of Evil, I think it was).

Mad Slanted Powers
10-06-2008, 09:33 PM
As others have been saying, there was a reason to give Anakin an apprentice. We also covered this a few pages back, and this is what I said then:


I think they assigned her to him in hopes that it would help him. By seeing the recklessness in her, he might see the recklessness in himself. There was also a line Yoda said about how Anakin would need to learn to let go when she is no longer his padawan.

cookiemonster
10-06-2008, 11:28 PM
Hell I am all for anything being changed in the Prequels to make it more enjoyable, after all they changed the OT Movies.

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2008, 12:43 AM
Except for one thing - the storytelling in the prequels was at least consistent in that each choice to incoctrinate Anakin further into the Jedi order was a concern with the council. From Obi'Wan's blatant defiance of Yoda in TPM to Mace's unease with allowing Anakin to accompany him to arrest Palpatine in ROTS. Now, I have not seen the pilot episodes that were shown in the theater, but from what I can gather from other posts Ahsoka was just more or less thrown in without little explanation. There is nothing to suggest that allowing Anakin to train a youngling was a concern.

And there is proof that it wasn't a concern? Again, we have no idea what went on behind the scenes.

That's not even bringing up the fact that the Council's unease with Anakin was part of what drove him away. If they didn't meet every issue with him with dark, serious foreboding, he might not have felt he had anything to prove. If the Council decided without reservation that this was a good thing, it might have been one of the few good decisions they made with Anakin.

Otherwise, I really can't give the Jedi points for essentially saying, "This is probably going to kill us all"--or rephrased: "After much consideration, we've decided to screw the pooch," on these other points.

So do we feel Anakin's instruction of Ahsoka so far is out of character? He's been largely keeping her on the straight and narrow. Yes, he's done things like look for Plo Koon, but he's always kept a firm but encouraging hand. Or is he doing fine, and in doing so, proving that the Council isn't completely off its rocker? Because if it's in character and proving to be benign, what's the problem with their decision?

Trust in long deliberation and treating Anakin as thought he's radioactive or trust in what arguably is the will of the Force?

electricidad
10-07-2008, 09:58 AM
Having seen the movie and the first couple of episodes, I have to admit--I'm enjoying this show. Yeah, it's a kid's show. And that's the level at which it should be enjoyed. The show's writers are canny enough, though, to put in things every now and then that the older fans can appreciate ("This one goes there, that one goes there!"). . .but it's a kid's show.

And I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Every now and then, you need to have meatloaf instead of a steak.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-07-2008, 10:08 AM
Having seen the movie and the first couple of episodes, I have to admit--I'm enjoying this show. Yeah, it's a kid's show. And that's the level at which it should be enjoyed. The show's writers are canny enough, though, to put in things every now and then that the older fans can appreciate ("This one goes there, that one goes there!"). . .but it's a kid's show.

And I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Every now and then, you need to have meatloaf instead of a steak.

Bah, steak too often has gristle in it anyway. Give me meatloaf and some ketchup.

JediTricks
10-08-2008, 05:59 AM
So, with much trepedation due to poor reviews of the CW movie, I taped the premiere episodes and watched them this weekend...

First off, the stupid battle droids and their obnoxious nasally voices were one of the big low points for this, it's just not particularly effective or funny. This was a constant throughout, there might be funnier humor in there somewhere but the voice and delivery is so forced and unbearable. The super battle droid fared much better by comparison, though had less to work with as well.

Now, I found this series wasn't all that bad, but there's a caveat, it wasn't that bad WHEN THE MAIN CHARACTERS WEREN'T ONSCREEN. I'm speaking specifically of Obi-Wan and Anakin, not even Yoda or Ahsoka or anybody else. Obi-Wan only has a brief appearance in the 2nd episode, but he's a rigid, unthinking, bossy jerk who has nothing monklike about him. Anakin has more screentime, and comes off badly realized - perhaps because he's that way in the prequels as well, or perhaps it's foreshadowing, but he's just incapable of conveying much of anything beyond "douche", he's certainly not wise, and he cannot seem to show or explain any sort of Jedi wisdom that even a future darksider should have. Ahsoka and the audience get some vague anti-lesson in how to disobey orders the right way, except not really, and he's a tool the entire time even when he's doing the right thing. Strangely, he's also one of the most unpleasant character designs on the show, he's actively icky to look at with his wonky armor and thick neck and contorted face. Obi-Wan fares little better, his face is too cartoony, but I didn't see much of it.

The first story was Yoda and a small number of troops vs Asajj Ventress & a squad of droids. Yoda had a nice little chat with the clones and really connected to them and thus them to us, kicked some butt without looking TOTALLY ridiculous (cartoon styling helps, but they also toned down the hotplate-frog thing), and brought out some of the ESB impishness. Plus, he totally schooled Ventress without even scratching her, that was slick, though his ultimate undoing in the episode is such a ripoff of AOTC that it was painful.

The second story was Plo Koon & some Republic Attack Cruisers (Venators) getting wiped out by Grievous and Dooku's new capital-ship-based superweapon, and then Plo and a handful of clones in an escape pod, and Ashoka & Anakin breaking orders to look for survivors. The stuff with Plo, while I didn't like his deep, British voice, was pretty mature material and interesting, not territory ever covered by non-paper SW before. The stuff with Ahsoka was a disappointment because she really is given nothing to do but suffer Anakin's crap behavior, and it's a deus ex machina that solves the trouble at hand. So I actually felt bad for Ahsoka (though her little tube-top outfit is totally ridiculous), she only had 1 annoying cutesy saying, and ultimately she wasn't well-served by the story or vice-versa. I did kinda like the Twilight's scenes, but it's not a particularly exciting ship. Oh, and the Han Solo lines coming from the clones, that was good and yet made me think of Tycho's awful theory about Han Solo being a clone.

The music really didn't deliver much of anything, I didn't care for it.

I really REALLY hated the exciting newsreel narrator spiel at the beginning though, totally unintelligible.



You know, I don't remember the Droids or Ewoks cartoons changing my life nor even my opinion of Star Wars. I'm pretty sure I would find both of those series unwatchable today. I don't see why this cartoon should be held to any higher standard. Would it be just because Lucas is more involved or is it just because we've grandfathered the earlier products in as acceptable?

It always seeme like Lucas is correct, at least to an extent, that we've grown up and can't accept that our tastes have changed a little more than Star Wars has. And of course I will have to qualify this statement by saying that the prequels truly are inferior to the sequels or I'll be defending points I haven't made in short time.Baloney, as a kid I thought both cartoons suck, and they still suck today. I thought the Ewok movies sucked as a kid, and they still suck today. I loved ROTJ as a kid, and... ok, well, can't win 'em all (to be fair, there's a lot that I still dig about ROTJ, but plenty more that doesn't work right too).

If Lucas is always correct, then Lucas has said (recently, no less) that the prequels aren't Star Wars, that they stand in contrast to what Star Wars is about. So it shouldn't be "inferior" or not, but about their merit at all. He's having "fun" with them now, but they are in direct conflict with Star Wars.

Anyway, I don't buy that Lucas is right, some things are good no matter what and some things suck no matter what. Kids can accept suck while adults are less likely to. The original 3 Star Wars films had an amazing pan-cultural impact which resonates even today, especially with adults of the time - I remember tons of adults I knew were going ga-ga for Ewok merch (I was confounded by this and into Jedi Luke & Boushh Leia).



Well, either way, Kit Fisto has a slightly rastafarian accent, as seen on the currently-on-TV preview special.

If that isn't the coolest damn thing ever, then I don't know what is. :DEh, I'm annoyed that it sounds like they used Phil Lamarr for the voice, he is becoming way overused in cartoons, like Tress McNeille (both talented, but pigeonholed and overexposed so no matter the gimmick it's always obvious who it is underneath).



Man, I cannot believe the overthinking going on here about Ahsoka. She's a padawan meant to bring kids into the series and help the audience better connect with that universe. She doesn't do a great job in the ep I saw but not a bad job either, she was mostly there learning from the world's crappiest cartoon character. I didn't see the movie though so it seems to help a lot in my lack of distaste for the character.

Of course, it also helps that so far, I don't connect the prequels with the OT much, I don't connect the prequel Anakin with the OT Anakin or Vader, and I certainly don't connect the prequel Anakin with the cartoon Anakin here (less so even than the previous Clone Wars cartoon), so Ahsoka to me is just a random padawan with a random crappy Jedi in a really stupid costume.


As for pacing issues, I felt both could have done a little better, but did fine with what was there and made the most out of the downtime, so I'm not ready to take issue with that.

Darth Duranium
10-08-2008, 10:32 PM
All of the Star Wars projects were designed for kids... it's just that some of us are a lot older than kids are and take it all too seriously. It ain't "War And Peace" or "I, Claudius"! It's all a fairy tale! Electricidad's right on the money. I'm enjoying every kid-minute of it, too. Best thing on TV, excepting BSG.

I thought the 2 new shows were both great... lots of good stuff in there. Much better than the TCW "movie" in both pacing and character.

I think the show will be a bit strait-jacketed by the limitations of the period in which it's set... none of the major characters except "Snips" and Ventress are in any danger of dying before the events of Ep III. We might be stuck with 40+ hours of non-consequential events.

But that's just fine by me... I'm glad the franchise ain't dead... just makes me want more post-ROTJ movies.

Like I've said before, George doesn't give a rat's arse about continuity issues or retcons... he's about to lay waste to many hardcore fan's notions of how things oughtta be. There'll be a lot of whingeing and gnashing of teeth, though. For me, George is the only source of "canon" SW goodness, even if he's frequently inconsistent.

I liked the technicolor pallette used, the ships look great, and the whole thing feels like George has moulded it. The Yoda/Clone pep-talk was soooo George. It's visually and sonically stunning, but the music is still a bit shaky. I liked the Samurai Jack CW cartoons but this feels much more like George's universe to me.

Not too fussy about the Anakin voice actor, though his acting skill isn't a lot worse than Lloyd's or Christensen's, really. I guess you have to be a bit of a douchebag to become a Sith anyway, huh?

Plo Koon's Rasta-Sean Connery voice amused us a lot... nice to see a bit more of (Explodin') Plo's character. Fun to hear pre-cough Grievous again, too.

I thought the battle droids were a laugh... obviously being used (a la Threepio) for comic relief... and humour is largely missing from the PT, compared to the OT. I just pray that we don't get frackin' Jar Jar.

JT, Tycho must be mixing up Han "The Clone" Solo with Rick "The Replicant" Deckard...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-09-2008, 12:30 AM
I just pray that we don't get frackin' Jar Jar.
He was shown in a commercial and he's in at least one CW reference book. I'm actually looking forward to seeing him. I thought the interaction between Padmé and C-3PO about Jar Jar was hilarious. :D Hopefully he'll be handled better than the battle droids.

JediTricks
10-09-2008, 06:34 AM
All of the Star Wars projects were designed for kids... it's just that some of us are a lot older than kids are and take it all too seriously. It ain't "War And Peace" or "I, Claudius"! It's all a fairy tale! Electricidad's right on the money. I'm enjoying every kid-minute of it, too. Best thing on TV, excepting BSG.Please don't take this the wrong way, because it's absolutely NOT personal, but I 100% reject Lucas' claim of "it's all for kids" and the similar claim of all those who have followed. That "it's for kids" claim is utterly false and is a very modern interpretation of a modern fallacy. There was a time when lots of good movies were rated G - for "general audiences" to enjoy - without being made for kids. Star Wars only got a PG because Lucas wanted to ensure that kids had to bring parents to see it, he threw in the bloodied burnt Larses for that purpose. But 2001: A Space Odyssey, Lawrence of Arabia, Ben-Hur, Gone with the Wind, Planet of the Apes, The Ten Commandments, Forbidden Planet, The Sound of Music, Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory, A Hard Day's Night, even Star Trek: The Motion Picture, they had G ratings and showed a great spectrum of storytelling, some accessible to kids and some less so, but the content was for general audiences, not just "the kids and the kids in all of us". To me, that concept is an utter cop-out, it sells the material short and it sells the audience short.

The original Star Wars material is deeply rooted in themes aimed at any age that can appreciate it, and those themes invite a level of depth that goes back to the very dawn of man if one chooses to explore it, yet is accessible enough that one can still enjoy it without digging into the philosophical and moral underpinnings (though they often still feel them). Star Wars has always and should always be good enough for kids but accessible for adults - I know that seems like an odd concept, but that's the reality of good entertainment, kids can be able to accept challenging concepts while adults are often far more closed-minded - in other words, made for everybody, no bias, no dumbing down, no talking over heads. Star Wars originally traversed that with the greatest of ease, but as time passed and Lucas changed, that ability to get there thinned.


Like I've said before, George doesn't give a rat's arse about continuity issues or retcons... he's about to lay waste to many hardcore fan's notions of how things oughtta be. There'll be a lot of whingeing and gnashing of teeth, though.Ha! That's a laugh. George cares deeply about continuity issues and retcons, he just wants to control who gets to use them and how - he's brought down some pretty heavy hammers on novel authors in the past for a guy who supposedly doesn't care. And then he brings out the sleaziest lawyer tactics to sneak his new continuity into his original - that whole "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you!" type of retconning where Yoda doesn't have to have heard of Force spirits 10 minutes before the end of Episode II but you know that's not what the original story was suggesting, not even close.



Not too fussy about the Anakin voice actor, though his acting skill isn't a lot worse than Lloyd's or Christensen's, really. I guess you have to be a bit of a douchebag to become a Sith anyway, huh?According to George, where once you had to have conviction and beliefs that led to the deaths of an entire religious order of warrior monks, now you just need a few mommy issues and an entire religious order incapable of working through even the mildest of negative emotions.



JT, Tycho must be mixing up Han "The Clone" Solo with Rick "The Replicant" Deckard...I honestly don't think Tycho's seen Blade Runner.

Darth Duranium
10-09-2008, 10:19 AM
I 100% reject Lucas' claim of "it's all for kids" and the similar claim of all those who have followed. That "it's for kids" claim is utterly false and is a very modern interpretation of a modern fallacy. There was a time when lots of good movies were rated G - for "general audiences" to enjoy - without being made for kids. Star Wars only got a PG because Lucas wanted to ensure that kids had to bring parents to see it, he threw in the bloodied burnt Larses for that purpose. But 2001: A Space Odyssey, Lawrence of Arabia, Ben-Hur, Gone with the Wind, Planet of the Apes, The Ten Commandments, Forbidden Planet, The Sound of Music, Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory, A Hard Day's Night, even Star Trek: The Motion Picture, they had G ratings and showed a great spectrum of storytelling, some accessible to kids and some less so, but the content was for general audiences, not just "the kids and the kids in all of us". To me, that concept is an utter cop-out, it sells the material short and it sells the audience short.

Dude, you're ignoring A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away which precedes everything... and spells it out in full.

IMHO, the whole SW enchelada really is a fairy tale for kids and the kids in all of us.. just ask any "sensible" but unimaginative adult, someone who finds it all so absolutely silly on so very many levels. And, from a certain point of view, it certainly is. The wookie needs pants.

It's all brilliant storytelling, but a flight of fancy story it is. Just like all of the supposedly Holy Books on this planet, in my view. It's built upon classic storytelling and mythical archetypes (Joey Campbell rocks) and it blends all sorts of fantastic elements from everywhere, but it is great entertainment and nothing more.

Its MPAA rating was just a bit of savvy marketing and editing by George. Government movie ratings are ridiculous and are a red herring here, anyway.

BTW, most of the "G" films you mention don't have much kid appeal... SW clearly did and does. They mostly underline my point: they're for adults and have a different sensibility.

Willy Wonka (well, Charlie) was Roald Dahl's twisted plea for open hostility toward children... but kids did like that one cuz they're a little twisted, too.

FP was big with the kids, but it's just like SW, only way crappier. HDN was not really for adults, either. I love the Beatles but I can't sit through it... but doubtlessly, millions of gawpin' tweens did back then. But I digress...



The original Star Wars material is deeply rooted in themes aimed at any age that can appreciate it, and those themes invite a level of depth that goes back to the very dawn of man if one chooses to explore it, yet is accessible enough that one can still enjoy it without digging into the philosophical and moral underpinnings (though they often still feel them). Star Wars has always and should always be good enough for kids but accessible for adults - I know that seems like an odd concept, but that's the reality of good entertainment, kids can be able to accept challenging concepts while adults are often far more closed-minded - in other words, made for everybody, no bias, no dumbing down, no talking over heads. Star Wars originally traversed that with the greatest of ease, but as time passed and Lucas changed, that ability to get there thinned.

I'd agree that George is not as sharp as he was in '76, but a "thinned" George (ironic considering his recent girth) is still a Titan astride the earth.

People infuse SW with all sorts of their own meanings but George treats it like his own little Lilliput and will do as he damn pleases. I just roll with it... in the fantasy SW universe, George is "God".

No offense here (or anywhere else!), but SW ain't all that deep, either... how can it be? It's a space opera! I would suggest that those seeking depth should look far beyond SW's superficial trappings of pseudo philosophy.

JT, I think you're getting stuck on the perception that things made for kids are somehow inferior to things made for adults.

I'd argue the complete opposite: The fact that a "kid's movie" (and subsequent stuff) has touched off such adoration from adults is proof of its convincing brilliance. It turned us back into kids again, and it still does.


Ha! That's a laugh. George cares deeply about continuity issues and retcons, he just wants to control who gets to use them and how...

Ventress got toasted in CW, didn't she? Or is that later? She's in this, and I saw a flash of Anakin fighting Grievous already. The universe is getting fully shaken, not stirred... again!

Sure, George controls the basic continuity of the thing, but the I Am Your Father bit, Holiday Special, Ewoks, Droids, etc. shows a particular lack of caring on his part, too. Novels don't mean squat, either. Splinter of the Mind's Eye, anyone? Regardless, I'm ok with retcons from George.


According to George, where once you had to have conviction and beliefs that led to the deaths of an entire religious order of warrior monks, now you just need a few mommy issues and an entire religious order incapable of working through even the mildest of negative emotions.

Well, I'll guess we'll see more rationale for Anakin's fall in the new cartoon, which is delightfully and unapologetically violent, just as George likes it. Kids are down with violence!


I honestly don't think Tycho's seen Blade Runner.

How is this possible? Has he no existential angst?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Ventress got toasted in CW, didn't she? Or is that later? She's in this, and I saw a flash of Anakin fighting Grievous already. The universe is getting fully shaken, not stirred... again!
In the comics/novels, Ventress lives at least to the end of the Clone Wars, though she gets defeated pretty badly a few times (one of which is on Yavin, as seen in the old cartoon). And I haven't seen anything with Anakin directly facing Grievous. Filoni knows and has said that Anakin can't and won't meet Grievous face-to-face until ROTS. They do, however, occasionally face off in ships, as seen in the next episode of Clone Wars and at least one of the novels (Labyrinth of Evil, I think).

I don't think it's that George doesn't care about continuity; I think it's that he's more interested in what makes a good story, and doesn't always care about some details the way many fans do.

Darth Duranium
10-09-2008, 07:29 PM
Yeah JJL, I'd agree that George cares somewhat about continuity, and I also agree that he wouldn't let a small detail get in the way of a good new story.

Besides, he can always go back and re-edit the original material (again). :)

Or claim that midichlorians made him do it.

So Ventress survived the pit, just like Boba and Palpy? Did Darth Maul pop his body back together, too? Jeez, doesn't anybody really die in SW? I guess the books are a great forum to resurrect any character at all. Except Jar Jar!

The books, games, and comics are fun but it's hard to take them too seriously as canon... George sure doesn't. Probably hasn't read one in years. Canon? More like cannon.

I'm not sure how they'll reconcile Anakin and Grievy "facing off" in TCW and "meeting" for the first time in Ep. III... but it sure looks like they scrap in TCW. It's pretty blatently and obviously a sizeable retcon...

Mad Slanted Powers
10-09-2008, 07:30 PM
Considering that Lucas was originally wanting to make something like the old Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon serials, it's possible that Star Wars wasn't meant to be taken that seriously to begin with. The prequels have a bit more of that feel, while the OT ended up having more the Joseph Campbell epic myth stuff in it. Trying to recapture the magic that happened 30 years ago is something that rarely happens. ESB was a rare sequel that was better than the original. Remakes often fall flat. People often prefer a band's earlier albums to later stuff. In some cases, the newer music may be better in some ways, but it isn't what people fell in love with at first.

Daryl VayDar
10-09-2008, 09:52 PM
I missed the shows' premiere, but caught the encore showing and had a blast! It seems that they are taking the title to heart, and exploring the Clones themselves as opposed to just the main characters. The Clones have personality and quirks, and even though they see themselves as cannon-fodder, their "Generals" seem to be going out of there way to remind them of their humanity. It feels a bit like watching a Republic Commando novel on the small screen to me. Solid action and a dose of fun, I'll be tuning in for sure...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-09-2008, 11:43 PM
I'm not sure how they'll reconcile Anakin and Grievy "facing off" in TCW and "meeting" for the first time in Ep. III... but it sure looks like they scrap in TCW. It's pretty blatently and obviously a sizeable retcon...
It's not like they dogfight or anything, I perhaps should have clarified. In both cases, Anakin was in a starfighter and Grievous was in a capital ship (as I remember/can tell from the next episode's preview). In ROTS, remember, Grievous commented on Anakin's age and Anakin mentioned on Grievous' height, neither of which could have been figured based on any space battles. I still haven't seen them dueling in any clips and can guarantee we won't . . . in the preview clips, I've seen Grievous fight Kit Fisto, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka, but never Anakin.

dr_evazan22
10-09-2008, 11:56 PM
Don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but TCW is on from 830 to 930 this week (tomorrow), for those that need to set VCR's / DVR's.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-10-2008, 01:21 AM
Don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but TCW is on from 830 to 930 this week (tomorrow), for those that need to set VCR's / DVR's.
The first one shown is a repeat, then it's the new one, as it will be every week from here on out.

Phantom-like Menace
10-10-2008, 01:55 AM
Baloney, as a kid I thought both cartoons suck, and they still suck today. I thought the Ewok movies sucked as a kid, and they still suck today. I loved ROTJ as a kid, and... ok, well, can't win 'em all (to be fair, there's a lot that I still dig about ROTJ, but plenty more that doesn't work right too).

If Lucas is always correct, then Lucas has said (recently, no less) that the prequels aren't Star Wars, that they stand in contrast to what Star Wars is about. So it shouldn't be "inferior" or not, but about their merit at all. He's having "fun" with them now, but they are in direct conflict with Star Wars.

Anyway, I don't buy that Lucas is right, some things are good no matter what and some things suck no matter what. Kids can accept suck while adults are less likely to. The original 3 Star Wars films had an amazing pan-cultural impact which resonates even today, especially with adults of the time - I remember tons of adults I knew were going ga-ga for Ewok merch (I was confounded by this and into Jedi Luke & Boushh Leia).

First, you and I appear to agree by and large as to the relative quality of various Star Wars programs, and I'd venture to say that we would rate the worst and best at roughly the same places on a scale.

Otherwise, there are plenty of people who will tell you with conviction--forced or otherwise--that Clone Wars is worse than Droids or Ewoks. The pedant in me refuses to say it's fact that Clone Wars is better in every measurable way than those two cartoons, so I'll simply call it overwhelming opinion that Clone Wars is better in every measurable way than those two cartoons. Those people, whether you or I agree with them, are the ones I was calling out, and they clearly lack anything approaching perspective.

But that was really a sidepoint to my main issue, which is that twenty-some years later, Droids and Ewoks are largely forgotten, insignificant chapters in Star Wars history. If we had complained about those programs and lamented the death of Star Wars with one-hundredth the energy we're putting into Clone Wars, we'd feel massively stupid right now and would realize it wasn't worth it in the slightest. Twenty-some years later, even if we hate Clone Wars, we're going to feel pretty stupid pretending it was more significant than it was.

cookiemonster
10-10-2008, 10:13 AM
Just a side on the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, these arent forgotten, even people who arent into Star Wars still remember these cartoons who grew up watching them.

If you are refering to the younger genereation, then yes they may not know there was a cartoon of them, however they also dont know about the Original Star Wars either just the one that is out now, they dont know about the Holiday Special, they dont know about the Ewok Movies and Marvel Star Wars, most kids now adays think Star Wars begins and ends with the Prequel Movies and the Clone Wars cartoons and any EU from Dark Horse, prime example you go to anotheR Site and see how many people are actually interested in Original Characters compared to the EU and Prequel Characters.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-10-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't know if I remember knowing anything about the Ewoks cartoons back then. I remember the Ewok movies, but never saw them because I think they were on HBO or something like that. I remember seeing the end of Droids episodes when I tuned in for something else, but guess I never made a point to try and watch them. I saw the Holiday special but don't remember much about it. I don't recall thinking it was bad.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-10-2008, 08:42 PM
I watched the Holiday Special last year and liked it in a so-bad-it's-good kitschy sort of way. I saw the Ewoks and Droids slapped-together VHS "movies" several years ago and I don't remember my opinion from that time, but I loathed the Droids one when they released it on DVD. I still haven't watched the other ones. It was like the Battle Droid humor from CW, times a thousand, and with nothing cool to redeem it. The first Ewok live action movie was alright, certainly nowhere near anything like the real Star Wars, but not so terrible I wanted to shoot myself or anything. I still haven't gotten around to ever seeing the second one, that's how "meh" I am about it.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-10-2008, 09:26 PM
I got the Ewoks and Droids cartoons and the Ewoks movies on DVD, but have only watched the Caravan of Courage so far. One of these days I'll get around to watching them.

El Chuxter
10-10-2008, 10:22 PM
Guys, the Battle for Endor is MUCH better than Caravan of Courage. To spoil the first scene, the entire family is killed except for the girl, and all the Ewoks are captured by giant reptilian bounty hunters.

Oh, and Teek is in it. Though he makes it millions of times better, it would still top Caravan of Courage easily.

Just don't tell Chuka-Trokh I said that. Or is it Chukha-Trok?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Getting back to the CLONE WARS CARTOON...

I thought last nights episode was pretty fantastic. The fighting between the starships was a blast to watch and i'm slowly starting to warm up to the Ahsoka and Anakin relationship a bit more. As long as Anakin shows some discipline to her and keeps in her order, which he seems to be doing fairly well, i'll buy it.

Great stuff! :thumbsup:

Phantom-like Menace
10-11-2008, 02:09 AM
Just a side on the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, these arent forgotten, even people who arent into Star Wars still remember these cartoons who grew up watching them.

I don't mean that people forgot they exist. They've just forgotten their impact on the Star Wars legacy, that indeed there was no impact.


prime example you go to anotheR Site and see how many people are actually interested in Original Characters compared to the EU and Prequel Characters.

That's misleading, though. If this were 1995, I wouldn't stop talking about the possibility of someday getting a figure of Luke or Han or whomever in that one certain outfit that I always liked or someday getting a Wedge Antilles figure. It's 2008, almost 2009. They've been cranking out figures for more than thirteen years now. I've gotten that certain outfit resculpted five times and I was fine with the third one. I've gotten several versions of Wedge. So now, I can't stop talking about the possibility of someday getting a figure of Luke or Han or whomever in that one certain outfit but from that one certain book or someday getting a Corran Horn figure. Let me put it to you this way: if I'm going to watch Star Wars, I'm probably going to pull out the OT, but if I'm going to the store to purchase figures, it's probably going to be something PT or EU.

Sorry, I'll get back to the Clone Wars after I watch it on TiVo tomorrow morning, or online next Friday, I swear.

Mvader91
10-11-2008, 02:30 AM
Just watched last weeks episodes on cartoon network.com. I gotta say I like the series. It seems better than the movie. I don't know maybe cause it was free. Looks identical to the big screen effects though. I was pleasantly surprised!

jonthejedi
10-11-2008, 09:15 AM
Outstanding episode...didn't even realize it was part 2 of a three-parter. Enjoyed it more than the CW movie! R.I.P. "Matchstick." Why hasn'
t Hasbro made that proto-Y-wing yet? Hmmm?

Bel-Cam Jos
10-11-2008, 10:23 AM
I didn't know this was "Part _ of _" either, j the j. Here's the question I have: if the clone force of ships was trying to get to the medical base FAST, why did they take Y-Wings, known for their firepower, and their speed of banthas? And that was a pretty much unheard of plan to destroy the major weapon on a ship targeting a base... :rolleyes: Good episode; one of those "one to grow on" or "now you know" types with a lesson.

I took myself out of the Hasbro vehicles market a while back, but I'd look to get a CW cartoon Y-Wing, too.

cookiemonster
10-11-2008, 11:32 AM
I was never in the Vehicle Market, but I would get a Y-Wing from the Cartoon Series.

Blue2th
10-12-2008, 03:18 AM
I saw the Clone Wars first two episodes at Starwars.com today. I must say I was impressed with these more than the movie. Well written thoughtful stories. Definitely not just for kids. I mean they show people dying and dead.

2-1B made a brief appearance! Is that why we haven't seen him here for a while?

I'm hooked.

Tycho
10-12-2008, 04:11 AM
I liked the Y-wing episode. Someone needs to do an episode that explores Palpatine's military contracts.

Why do they have V-19's?

Why do they have V-wings?

What happened to the use of Jedi Starfighters (that they switch from Delta-7's to the E3 versions)?

Why do they have AT-TE's?

Turbotanks, etc.?

Who makes them? Why did the Kaminoans have any of them to train their clones with?

This is all EU. I want it to explore the world of military contractors. You can still do a show like that and make it kid-friendly.

TheCivilCollector
10-12-2008, 06:17 AM
I didn't like the Clone Wars movie very much. I thought Ziro the Hutt was ridiculous, and I didn't think it played well on the big screen.

That being said, I'm rather impressed with the show on CN. It is paced very well for half-hour parts. I don't enjoy the lame 3 Stooges humor they interject with the Battle Droids, but I can overlook that. Even Ashoka doesn't bother me (except for the 'Sky Guy' and 'Artooie' crap). It's even written well, except for the previously mentioned.

I find myself anxious to see this one on Fridays. Good job, Lucasfilm Animation!

plasticfetish
10-12-2008, 06:27 AM
So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:

Bel-Cam Jos
10-12-2008, 10:21 AM
So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:There will be times that it will be so, PF, but so far my expansive social Friday calendar has been wiped clean, like Threepio's memory in ROTS. :terriblysorrysir: :pleased:

Blue2th
10-12-2008, 11:49 AM
I liked the Y-wing episode. Someone needs to do an episode that explores Palpatine's military contracts.

Why do they have V-19's?

Why do they have V-wings?

What happened to the use of Jedi Starfighters (that they switch from Delta-7's to the E3 versions)?

Why do they have AT-TE's?

Turbotanks, etc.?

Who makes them? Why did the Kaminoans have any of them to train their clones with?

This is all EU. I want it to explore the world of military contractors. You can still do a show like that and make it kid-friendly.
That would be interesting. Arms dealers possibly working both sides of a conflict. Remaining neutral, and catering to the highest bidder. With a neutral "Swiss" bank that does all the financial deals.

Or in the case of Star Wars, it's more like Beoing and Northrop on the allies or Republic side and Messershmitt, Hienkel, and Mitsubushi on the axis or Sepratist side.

Coming up with "black" projects to have an advantage. Kind of like the Malevolence secret weapon, and all witnesses have to exterminated. I thought that was a cool twist to that story.

cookiemonster
10-12-2008, 12:15 PM
You mean like this planet which appeared first in the Marvel Star Wars Comics.

Aargau: During the Clone Wars, Aargau was officially neutral, but Clone Troopers were sent in to keep it secure nonetheless. It operated the Aargau Medical Observer Corps. The Banking Clan was based in a mammoth pyramid-shaped structure, which was subdivided into seven color-coded levels, one the highest and smallest, seven being the lowest and biggest.


Levels 1-3: Banking and precious metals
Level 4: Lodging
Level 5: Supplies
Level 6: Entertainment and Recreation
Level 7: The Undercity; dangerous, unregulated free trade
The planet remained neutral during the Galactic Civil War. Darth Vader stole the Crown Jewels of Alderaan from the world's vaults. During the Imperial Mutiny, Aargau became a fortress world, and was garrisoned with hundreds of warships.

Sometime after 33 BBY, Valara Saar traveled to Aargau while on her journeys through the galaxy. During her short stay on the planet, she embarked on a mission in which her pet Duuvhal Zeev was killed.

TheCivilCollector
10-12-2008, 02:26 PM
So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:

Discover Usenet. You can download it and watch it at your leisure.

cookiemonster
10-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Watch the clone wars here for free, well at least last fridays I dont know if they have kept the others up.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Babybandits

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-12-2008, 06:10 PM
You can watch them legally on starwars.com and cartoonnetwork.com a week after they're on TV. They keep the episodes up for one week each.

Then they also replay them on Sunday nights, a half hour after they were shown on Friday, which is how I'll be viewing this week's episode.

Blue2th
10-12-2008, 08:09 PM
Wow! That was totally cool. Like an old torpedo bomber assault.

I want one of those Y-Wing prototypes with a Shadow Squadron Broadside or Matchstick Clone Pilot and a Gunner.

THX Cookiemonster :thumbsup: Low resolution, but I'll watch it again on Friday. I don't have cable :cry:

Tycho
10-12-2008, 09:48 PM
So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:

Direct TV: They play it for California at 6pm and repeat it at 7:30.

It doesn't interfere with my night whatsoever. But soon I'll be on drugs to neutralize my immune system and I'll have to stay seculded at home so it won't matter anyway.

stillakid
10-12-2008, 11:26 PM
So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:


TIVO in the bedroom and a Time-Warner DVR in the living room. It's the rare day when I actually watch something when it originally airs. :smoker:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-13-2008, 01:19 AM
Holy nuts, that was a great episode. Matchstick was awesome; I was actually sad to see him go, but I'm glad that they're able to effectively humanize the clones. The medical center was pretty sweet, and I LOVED the nebula.

Phantom-like Menace
10-13-2008, 01:23 AM
Watch the clone wars here for free, well at least last fridays I dont know if they have kept the others up.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Babybandits

Glad I got to check it out without having to wait another few days.

I really liked this episode. There was a lot going on between Koon, Anakin, and Ahsoka. I'm not sure Koon isn't just undermining Anakin's authority with Ahsoka and needs to keep some things to himself. But I liked that Ahsoka pointed out to Anakin that just because he can surivive in crazy odds doesn't mean his men can. It's a lesson that's hard for Anakin to accept, and I think it very nicely showed that learning in a master and apprentice relationship runs both ways.

Of course the Y-wings were nice to see. And it seems again it's really easy for the clones to become the stars of this show. What I'd like to see soon: Republic Commandos! Let's get some Shiny Boys in here and maybe even a cameo from Delta or Omega Squad.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-13-2008, 02:03 AM
One thing I kept thinking of, though . . . when I read that James Arnold Taylor does both Obi-Wan's voice and Plo Koon's voice, I kept focusing on how much Plo sounds like Obi-Wan. Oh, and it was weird how he had the Delta-7B ship with a maroon-trimmed droid, since in ROTS he has the Delta-7 with a blue droid.

figrin bran
10-13-2008, 02:24 AM
I thought the same about Plo sounding like Obi-Wan.

On a more general note, 3 episodes in and the series has exceeded my expectations. Hopefully those of us who were lukewarm at best about the prospects of this series have warmed up to it by now? (knowing us, probably not)

cookiemonster
10-13-2008, 08:24 PM
Glad I could help guys, I always thought there was an option to turn it into High Resolution on there, I know it looks semi decent on my computer, but beggers cant be choosers, also I dont know if you figured it out but you can watch it full screen as well (but you most probably already know that).

The reason I found that is I dont have Cable, or even Basic TV, so I watch a lot of programs on Youtube or other free TV Sites.

JediTricks
10-16-2008, 02:46 AM
Here's the question I have: if the clone force of ships was trying to get to the medical base FAST, why did they take Y-Wings, known for their firepower, and their speed of banthas? At the time, these were new vehicles, they weren't as slow compared to vehicles of the day. They needed small, heavy bombers for the mission.



So, ahhh... anyone else missing the show because they can't be sitting in front of the TV at 9 on a Friday night?

:ermm:No, it's called DVR, or go out and buy a VCR, I hear they're cheap now. :p



You mean like this planet which appeared first in the Marvel Star Wars Comics.

Aargau: During the Clone Wars, Aargau was officially neutral, but Clone Troopers were sent in to keep it secure nonetheless. It operated the Aargau Medical Observer Corps. The Banking Clan was based in a mammoth pyramid-shaped structure, which was subdivided into seven color-coded levels, one the highest and smallest, seven being the lowest and biggest.


Levels 1-3: Banking and precious metals
Level 4: Lodging
Level 5: Supplies
Level 6: Entertainment and Recreation
Level 7: The Undercity; dangerous, unregulated free trade

The planet remained neutral during the Galactic Civil War. Darth Vader stole the Crown Jewels of Alderaan from the world's vaults. During the Imperial Mutiny, Aargau became a fortress world, and was garrisoned with hundreds of warships.

Sometime after 33 BBY, Valara Saar traveled to Aargau while on her journeys through the galaxy. During her short stay on the planet, she embarked on a mission in which her pet Duuvhal Zeev was killed.Wow, you're making all of that up, right? How the hell did Marvel keep the SW license so long with "writing" that "good"? ;)



I thought the same about Plo sounding like Obi-Wan.

On a more general note, 3 episodes in and the series has exceeded my expectations. Hopefully those of us who were lukewarm at best about the prospects of this series have warmed up to it by now? (knowing us, probably not)I'm not wholly sold yet, but I do think it's better than expected and willing to give it more of a chance. I'm REALLY glad I avoided the "movie" though, nothing I've heard so far would have been encouraging and spending money on that would have dampened my interest in this.

cookiemonster
10-16-2008, 06:52 PM
Damn someone is in a Sarky mood, lol.

But seriously JT it is a real planet in Star Wars, and the Marvel Writers were no worse than the Dark Horse writers, there was some really good stories.

plasticfetish
10-17-2008, 12:16 AM
No, it's called DVR, or go out and buy a VCR, I hear they're cheap now. :pYou had a perfectly good chance to throw in a "grandma" there, and didn't do it. ;) (No DVR until I set up the TV/game room in the basement... someday.)

Actually... I'm really happy to have found that they're replaying the show on Sunday at 9:30, which is a much better time for us to sit down and watch it as a family.

I need to watch the first episode online still, but the second one was great I think. Really enjoyed the show!

Bel-Cam Jos
10-18-2008, 11:17 AM
Missed this week's, as I was watching HS football (and absolutely TERRIBLE officiating :mad: ).

JediTricks
10-18-2008, 03:38 PM
But seriously JT it is a real planet in Star Wars, and the Marvel Writers were no worse than the Dark Horse writers, there was some really good stories.You see me defending DH a lot around here? Still, as crummy as the writing is in the newer comics, it is way more consistent with the Star Wars universe than Marvel.


Anyway, I watched Destroying Malevolence last night, and was really disappointed. Compared to the previous 2 in this arc, this was a brainless waste of time. The majority of the story was downright stupidity and featured tons of plot based on listening in on unscrambled communications. Obi-Wan vs Grievous was an insult to their real battle in ROTS, and apparently it turns out that it wasn't Anakin's fault that there was a Mega-Man sequence in AOTC, Padme and 3PO are to blame. That whole thing was a shameless ripoff of one of the lamest sequences in Ep 2, and they even managed to make fighting on a train boring. And the destruction of the ship was simplistic and uninteresting nonsense that ended without the requisite payoff it deserved. This whole episode felt like an afterthought, a webisode at most. If you're not going to give a proper sendoff to the storyline, don't even send it off at all, just let the ship float around for a while in the background being dangerous, let it be the big boss level at the end of the season or something.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-18-2008, 04:15 PM
I liked it. :ermm: Quite a lot, actually. This has been the closest to how I thought the series would be. The C-3PO stuff was goofy but funnier than his AOTC stuff and certainly better than the battle droid humor.

Oh, and it says that Olivia d'Abo (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001882/) played Luminara, that's pretty cool (as someone who enjoyed Wonder Years).

JediTricks
10-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Here's the plan: we go over there undetected despite the fact that they detected Padme's ship instantly, then we walk in, find her, save the unimportant droid, and leave. Oh, and while we're over there, we'll push a few buttons and it'll wreck the ship. If we encounter any opposition, we'll Force-push them away gamely.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-18-2008, 05:26 PM
Here's the plan: we go over there undetected despite the fact that they detected Padme's ship instantly, then we walk in, find her, save the unimportant droid, and leave. Oh, and while we're over there, we'll push a few buttons and it'll wreck the ship. If we encounter any opposition, we'll Force-push them away gamely.
I like the way you think! :p

Rocketboy
10-24-2008, 01:46 PM
Cartoon Network has released a rundown of the new episodes of Star Wars: The Clone Wars airing in November.

All episode will air at 9 p.m., preceded by the previous weeks episode at 8:30 p.m.

Friday, Nov. 7: "Downfall of a Droid" -- R2-D2 is lost during a fierce space battle -- and Anakin must find him before the Separatists discover the Jedi military secrets locked in his memory banks

Friday, Nov. 14: "Duel of the Droids" -- Anakin, Ahsoka and replacement droid R3 embark on a dual rescue/sabotage mission when they discover R2-D2 is being held at General Grievous' secret enemy listening post.


Friday, Nov. 21: "Bombad Jedi" -- Jar Jar Binks is a Jedi Knight? So thinks the Separatists when comically heroic Gungan and C-3PO fight to save Padme Amidala from doom at the hands of evil Viceroy Nute Gunray.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-24-2008, 02:05 PM
Padmé gets captured too much. Other than that, these sound cool.

El Chuxter
10-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Looks like Jar Jar is actually going to be used more in this show than in AOTC and ROTS combined. :)

The Nov 21 episode synopsis concerns me a bit from a continuity standpoint. Gunray captures Padme, and apparently security is so lax that Jar Jar and C-3PO can save her? The guy who issued one of the most coldhearted lines in Star Wars ("I want her head on my desk!") captures the woman he hates more than anything and is going to keep her alive long enough for the peanut gallery to save her? I really hate to sound like the "continuity police fanboy in his parents' basement," but that's not consistent with what we've seen of Gunray before. He winds up as a joke because he's somewhat ineffectual, but I think he's smart enough to not play Bond villain if he had the chance to just put a bullet in her head.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-24-2008, 02:40 PM
Looks like Jar Jar is actually going to be used more in this show than in AOTC and ROTS combined. :)

The Nov 21 episode synopsis concerns me a bit from a continuity standpoint. Gunray captures Padme, and apparently security is so lax that Jar Jar and C-3PO can save her? The guy who issued one of the most coldhearted lines in Star Wars ("I want her head on my desk!") captures the woman he hates more than anything and is going to keep her alive long enough for the peanut gallery to save her? I really hate to sound like the "continuity police fanboy in his parents' basement," but that's not consistent with what we've seen of Gunray before. He winds up as a joke because he's somewhat ineffectual, but I think he's smart enough to not play Bond villain if he had the chance to just put a bullet in her head.Perhaps he wants to see her suffer, so he is waiting to do something elaborate. Of course, he seemed impatient at something like that in AOTC, but perhaps the failure to kill her there made him want to see her suffer more.

pbarnard
10-24-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm with Chux on this (save us all). GL/LFL licensing has gone to great lengths to keep one continuity with several things allowed to slide (video games, infinities, early version of Star Wars Tales). They've basically created 3 Clone Wars continuities with 2 animated series, and the books comics. Each tries to link AotC and RotS, but beyond a few disjointed events, it's not working. This is usually a problem that creeps up in the books/comics on keeping characters consistent. One would think the animators who do have a bit more looking over the shoulder would get it tighter than authors who have a bit more freedom.

I always thought of Gunray as a joke to begin with (Qui-gon's quote that Federation types are cowards). Oh well, if there's a Tarazan allusion with Jar-Jar or worse 3P0, swinging with the other clinging to them, we'll know that this version of CW is the joke and try to figure out how the other two fit.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-25-2008, 01:39 AM
Well, the synopsis for Destroy Malevolence said she was taken hostage by Grievous, but it turned out to be just her getting pulled in by the tractor beam and not held like Palpatine was in ROTS or anything. So, who knows.

I really liked tonight's episode, but I missed pretty much all of the third act as my douchebag of a neighbor came by to bug me and my roommate. He had blueberry-scented weed, and I apparently just HAD to smell it. :rolleyes: So, I'm anxious to watch this one again as I enjoyed the first two acts quite a bit and what I saw of the last part was awesome.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-25-2008, 09:16 AM
I was switching channels frequently last night (local HS football game on cable, opening basketball game at local arena featuring NBA preseason), so I missed a few scenes of this most recent episode. However, in a part where droids were cutting through a blast door to get to some clones, I could've sworn I saw pictures taped to the wall next to the door (they looked pin-up in style); anybody else notice them? (or record it to determine if my mind was playing Jedi [dirty] mind tricks on me? :pleased: ).

Rocketboy
10-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Yeah those were pinups on the wall.

Another mediocre-to-poor episode.

2-1B
10-25-2008, 12:34 PM
I liked the last 3 episodes overall, they were fun. I haven't watched last night's yet.

JT is right though, with the AOTC comparison from last week because I was reminded of it as well.

I'm interested to see what they do with JarJar in that upcoming episode.

If they can keep Ventress out of future episodes, that would be great.

JediTricks
10-25-2008, 11:56 PM
Last night's episode was pretty good, a little mixed at times tho'. It was all clone action, lazy new clones on a distant outpost. The inclusion of Cody and Rex together felt a little dippy, and Obi-Wan is now the universe's most rigid, foolish general apparently because he downright SUCKED as a leader in this episode... YET AGAIN! Shouldn't he at least feel the Force saying "hey, something doesn't feel right when even Yularen sees something is wrong!!!"? But overall there was a decent focus on action and characterization, individualizing the clones, and even the difference between doing one's job and doing what is needed; plus, it was kinda dark, lots of clones died. The new Commando Droids were fairly interesting and tough enemies (most of the time), and their jokes weren't the same stupid variety of the regular battle droids. While I wouldn't think this would have made a good cliffhanger episode, I do think it felt too compressed and could have spent at least 10 more minutes here.

In terms of tech, apparently clones carry blasters and pistols hidden inside their armor somewhere, as they just kept appearing out of nowhere. The Republic clone shuttle thing looks pretty cool and blows up nicely. The CIS landing craft was total bunk, that thing is supposed to hold dozens of MTTs, not a handful of troops. Why doesn't Cody wear a jetpack on this show? What happens if they want to shoot while rappelling? And the comms once again are useless crap. :p


For me, this show is definitely not in the main continuity anymore, Anakin and Obi-Wan simply don't fit with the real versions of those characters, but it does flesh out parts of the prequels better than the films. This is one episode where you really get a feel for the exciting (and sometimes not) life of a clone trooper, that they can even be blase' about where they come from and their lot in life. The tactics seen here don't really fit with the movies either, but they can make an interesting "semi-canon" show not unlike Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles when not too focused on the main Jedi.

stillakid
10-26-2008, 12:57 AM
The show is still fairly poor in comparison to the earlier animated mini-sode version. But it's still vastly superior to the live-action Prequels.

That said, the dialogue is pretty poor at times. And there is far too much of Anakin giving that over the shoulder "shucks" look. So many times in the last episode I wondered why there was so much complacency when there is no word from the clones sent to inspect such an important outpost. "We haven't heard from them yet? Oh well." :rolleyes: Obi should've been fired for letting that one go.

When the new style droids showed up, the first thing that came to mind was "Hasbro asked these guys for some new stuff to make toys of.)

The standard Battle Droids are way too "independent" minded, which is mostly illustrated through their exhibition of surprise and humor. For a droid army which is supposedly built for fighting and maximum military capability run from a central "brain" somewhere, why are these things so.. human? The big meaner droids aren't like that at all and the Droidekas are there to roll and shoot. Why would the manufacturers give the battle droids independent personalities?

The standouts of the series and that last episode are/were Grievous, who I've always liked. He doesn't belong anywhere in the OT established Star Wars universe (YOU try to imagine him ANYWHERE in ANH, ESB, or ROTJ!... can't do it, can ya?). I also liked to see the bored Clones listening/watching to their version of Radio Free America. Except for the bar chase scene in AOTC, we never get a decent sense of any pop-culture in the Star Wars worlds. I like that. In that vein, the pin-ups were also a great touch, though I haven't had a chance to play it back to zoom in on them. I wanna see what passes for a Playmate in a Clone's mind. :love:


I have no idea what the ratings are, but I have a hard time seeing this series, which had great potential, really having staying power. The "Movie Tone News" style announcer at the beginning is a nice touch, but that feeling of a newsstyle reel gets lost after that. The movie Starship Troopers did a nicer job of maintaining the element throughout the movie. Clone Wars could benefit by refocusing the way it presents these various battles by repackaging the episodes in a more "Movie Tone" way.

And this animation style STILL blows. It's never been good for any movie/TV that uses it. I'm sure it's cheap, but it really hurts the overall quality. Blech!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-26-2008, 01:49 AM
The standard Battle Droids are way too "independent" minded, which is mostly illustrated through their exhibition of surprise and humor. For a droid army which is supposedly built for fighting and maximum military capability run from a central "brain" somewhere, why are these things so.. human? The big meaner droids aren't like that at all and the Droidekas are there to roll and shoot. Why would the manufacturers give the battle droids independent personalities?
After the Battle of Naboo, in which knocking out the central "brain" killed the army there, they made the droids independent. This was shown in the deleted scene from AOTC where Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo Koon try to destroy the droid control ship but find that the droids now have their own brains (it wasn't on the DVD but I think it was on starwars.com for a time).

But, in the show, they're just like that for some crappy humor.


And this animation style STILL blows. It's never been good for any movie/TV that uses it. I'm sure it's cheap, but it really hurts the overall quality. Blech!
I'm still not really sure why people hate this so much. Is it the style, the execution, both, or something else entirely? Dave Filoni has said that they intentionally didn't want to make it photorealistic to keep it apart from the upcoming TV show, and Lucas has vocalized a "been there, done that" attitude with live action here. I really like this style and think it works really well here. What are the other shows that use it?

Rocketboy
10-26-2008, 02:14 AM
I'm still not really sure why people hate this so much. Is it the style, the execution, both, or something else entirely? Dave Filoni has said that they intentionally didn't want to make it photorealistic to keep it apart from the upcoming TV show, and Lucas has vocalized a "been there, done that" attitude with live action here. I really like this style and think it works really well here. What are the other shows that use it?I think its the cold, dead, lifeless eyes, the p*ss poor lip synch, and the stick up the @ss movement of the characters.

Blue2th
10-26-2008, 02:29 AM
Obi-Wan is now the universe's most rigid, foolish general apparently because he downright SUCKED as a leader in this episode... YET AGAIN! Shouldn't he at least feel the Force saying "hey, something doesn't feel right when even Yularen sees something is wrong!!!"?

They sure are not treating Obi-Wan with much respect. In "Destroying Malevolence", he tells Yularen to stop the bombardment of the Malevolence when Padme's ship is detected, yet Anakin tells Yularen a few moments later to stop firing. Uh didn't Obi just say that already?

Tycho
10-26-2008, 03:20 AM
I'm curious how the blueberry scented weed was?

I don't smoke, but I understand a lot about sniffing ;)

jonthejedi
10-26-2008, 05:19 AM
I'm not gonna be too critical about SW cartoons at this point, because to my son & I...mediocre SW is better than no SW. This is something he & I really enjoy together, and the fanboys were never the target audience to begin with. That said, I particularly enjoyed the all-clone "Band of Brothers" episode that just aired.

Phantom-like Menace
10-26-2008, 10:27 AM
My favorite line from the last episode: "Heavy always did hate that place." I also liked (and I'm sure some will say this is one of the problems with the program) that one of the clones was nicknamed Droidbait.

Good episode, though. I can't believe they used that damned, "Roger, roger," in a way that made me laugh. Cody: "This is never gonna' work."

I can't really complain about the animation too much. It was a conscious decision on Lucas' part, and I think of it in the same was as styles of art that I don't care for. They said they are looking for those results, and they were successful. If they said they were trying for those results and weren't successful, that would be a different story. Honestly, the CGI could be completely photorealistic, and I could be completely unable to tell CGI Anakin from Hayden Christensen, and I would prefer traditional animation while some would argue that it doesn't look realistic enough.

Friday, Nov. 14: "Duel of the Droids" -- Anakin, Ahsoka and replacement droid R3 embark on a dual rescue/sabotage mission when they discover R2-D2 is being held at General Grievous' secret enemy listening post.

Please, please let this R3 droid have a clear head. Lucas' arbitrary decision to have R4 droids with R2-style heads makes me crazy

El Chuxter
10-26-2008, 01:27 PM
And this animation style STILL blows.


I'm still not really sure why people hate this so much. Is it the style, the execution, both, or something else entirely? Dave Filoni has said that they intentionally didn't want to make it photorealistic to keep it apart from the upcoming TV show, and Lucas has vocalized a "been there, done that" attitude with live action here. I really like this style and think it works really well here. What are the other shows that use it?

I've seen variations on this basic look on shows like Reboot and Beast Wars, only done much better, and ten years or more earlier. My problem isn't so much that it's unrealistic as poorly animated, and characters and environments and objects don't interact as they should. It's not simply the abstraction--Batman: The Animated Series and (the original) Clone Wars are probably my two favorite animated series of all time, and they're both far more abstract than this. However, regardless of how simplified and angular he is, Batman always looks like he's walking down a street in Gotham instead of just floating over the ground. (Phantasm always looks like she's floating, but that's different, because she's supposed to. ;))

It's a nitpick, but it's one that really bothers me. They've been using CG in animated movies for ages. It's something guys like Pixar and Dreamworks took care of ages ago.

Based on everything I've seen and read, they tried to reinvent computer animation with new people, without really learning what had worked and hadn't in the past. I'd use the "reinventing the wheel" cliche, but this is more like they tried to reinvent the Ferrarri and barely got to the wheel stage, and haven't yet figured out that oval doesn't work.

There is no excuse for this not looking millions of times better than Beast Wars. Beast Wars is a decade old, which is a lifetime in CG.

stillakid
10-26-2008, 04:51 PM
I'm still not really sure why people hate this so much. Is it the style, the execution, both, or something else entirely? Dave Filoni has said that they intentionally didn't want to make it photorealistic to keep it apart from the upcoming TV show, and Lucas has vocalized a "been there, done that" attitude with live action here. I really like this style and think it works really well here. What are the other shows that use it?

It's an opinion thing for me. I didn't like the movie Shrek either because it uses the same basic animation style too. Something like TOY STORY gets away with it, because most of the characters and environments lend themselves to the more "plasticy" feel. But even in TOY STORY, humans tend to look kinda creepy and really take me out of the story.

If anyone has seen the PIXAR shorts (now on DVD), the earliest experiments looked like this. The Wally B stands out as a good example. But those were just experimental steps to get them to another point.. as it turns out, that point was Jurassic Park, if I remember correctly.

To go back to using an animation style that is so poor and was only created as a step to something else seems silly. The humans look creepy, the characters look like they're placed on top of the environments instead of being a part of them, and the whole mood created by the shiny plastic feel doesn't fit at all with the "Movie Tone News" concept established by the announcer at the beginning of each episode.

The pacing is off... I'm not able to invest myself in any of the characters ...

I don't know. It's called Clone Wars so I'd like them to get away from the main movie characters (Obi and Ani) and let us see what's going on in the rest of the galaxy. I want to see different Jedi and what they do. One the best parts of ANH was the chance to see different worlds in a way that we never had before. This is a great vehicle to show us how creative LucasFilm can be... let's see the battles going on on snow planets, underwater, mountain planets.... Let's see the ship building ports where all of these battle ships are coming from. Let's see the periphery of the galaxy that the live action films couldn't show because they focused on the heroes. One of the best parts of "Star Wars" for me has been the production design driven by imagining what the "future" and distant worlds and aliens could be.... let's see some of that instead of watching endless shots of Ani saying, "you know me, Master." That's gettin' really old already. Yeah, WE DO. We get it. Anakin is a maverick. Maybe he should run for President. But lets see MORE of the Star Wars Universe.

This series is very schizophrenic.

Darth Duranium
10-26-2008, 05:11 PM
I think its the cold, dead, lifeless eyes, the p*ss poor lip synch, and the stick up the @ss movement of the characters.

Yeah, I agree Rocketboy... the stiff animation "style" is more like Thunderbirds puppets ("Supermarionation") or Team America World Police... and that adversely affects the emotions "expressed" by the characters. Durka durka, jihad, jihad.

But still, like JabbaJL and Phantom, I gotta say that the series is quite visually stunning... the starships and helmeted clones especially look almost "photorealistic" at times.

There were a few shots in the new episode that were dynamite and would have looked at home in the PT, IMO.

Maybe some dudes should smoke the blueberry cheeba and see if it improves their outlook on the animation...

2-1B
10-26-2008, 09:06 PM
Anakin is a maverick. Maybe he should run for President.

Not really, I think he voted with Obi-Wan 90% of the time. ;)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-26-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm curious how the blueberry scented weed was?

I don't smoke, but I understand a lot about sniffing ;)
I don't smoke either, and the kid knows this but tries to "corrupt" me, as he says. My roommate (who smokes weed constantly all day every day but never tries to have me do it) kept telling him to stop making me smell it, and I kept saying no thanks, and then after a few times I just took it from him, smelled it slightly, said it was super amazing, and gave it back just to shut him up. I don't have a problem with people smoking, but it p***es me off when people keep pushing it on me after I've said no (this instance wasn't too bad, but there have been other times too). The main thing was, I just wanted to watch the show and have that kid go away. But, it smelled like Boo Berry, so if you wanted to experience it you could just get some Boo Berry (which I freakin' love).


Yeah, I agree Rocketboy... the stiff animation "style" is more like Thunderbirds puppets ("Supermarionation") or Team America World Police... and that adversely affects the emotions "expressed" by the characters. Durka durka, jihad, jihad.
It's been well-documented that they were intentionally going for the Thunderbirds style. I don't think that it undermines the emotions or what have you, but I suppose I see how some could think that. I'm used to the animation style by now so the walking and lip-synching (which I never thought was bad) just kind of go along with it.


I've seen variations on this basic look on shows like Reboot and Beast Wars, only done much better, and ten years or more earlier.
Looking at these on YouTube, as I just did, may help to remove any rose-colored nostalgia glasses you're wearing. To me, those shows look like today's pre-viz animatics. I remember occasionally watching Reboot in around 1994 or so, but that was so long ago and I was so young that I don't remember much about it other than the weird skin colors and CGI. Anyway, in my opinion, these don't even hold a candle to The Clone Wars.


the characters look like they're placed on top of the environments instead of being a part of them
Both you and Chux have said this and I'm still not sure what you mean. I think this looks fine. Do either of you (or anybody else) have any examples of this?


I don't know. It's called Clone Wars so I'd like them to get away from the main movie characters (Obi and Ani) and let us see what's going on in the rest of the galaxy. I want to see different Jedi and what they do. One the best parts of ANH was the chance to see different worlds in a way that we never had before. This is a great vehicle to show us how creative LucasFilm can be... let's see the battles going on on snow planets, underwater, mountain planets.... Let's see the ship building ports where all of these battle ships are coming from. Let's see the periphery of the galaxy that the live action films couldn't show because they focused on the heroes. One of the best parts of "Star Wars" for me has been the production design driven by imagining what the "future" and distant worlds and aliens could be.... let's see some of that instead of watching endless shots of Ani saying, "you know me, Master." That's gettin' really old already. Yeah, WE DO. We get it. Anakin is a maverick. Maybe he should run for President. But lets see MORE of the Star Wars Universe.
With this, I agree. They said they were going to be moving more to the fringes of the galaxy. We've got more than enough stories about Anakin and Obi-Wan already. I do enjoy seeing them and I'd like them to pop in every once in a while, but right now, they should focus on other places and events that have nothing to do with the main characters.


Please, please let this R3 droid have a clear head. Lucas' arbitrary decision to have R4 droids with R2-style heads makes me crazy
Sorry to disappoint, but R3-S6 (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R3-S6) has a "scavenged R2-series dome" according to Wookieepedia. It seems like that's how they explain a lot of these non-R2 units having R2 domes, but it would just be easier for them to get it right the first time. On the bright side, he's an evil droid who battles R2-D2. :D

Okay, one more edit: I just watched this again in its entirety. It was fantastic from start to finish. Hevy was a total badass (now I know who's in my avatar), and so was Rex. I'm not sure, but that might be my favorite episode so far. I'd like to see more clone-focused episodes, for sure.

Phantom-like Menace
10-27-2008, 12:49 AM
With this, I agree. They said they were going to be moving more to the fringes of the galaxy. We've got more than enough stories about Anakin and Obi-Wan already. I do enjoy seeing them and I'd like them to pop in every once in a while, but right now, they should focus on other places and events that have nothing to do with the main characters.

I figure we should give them a few episodes to pass judgment in this respect. They pretty much should be expected to initially focus on characters we're familiar with. If they didn't, we know there would be that group of people asking, "Who are these people? Why should we care about them?"


Sorry to disappoint, but R3-S6 (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R3-S6) has a "scavenged R2-series dome" according to Wookieepedia. It seems like that's how they explain a lot of these non-R2 units having R2 domes, but it would just be easier for them to get it right the first time. On the bright side, he's an evil droid who battles R2-D2. :D

And I can just see Lucas' logic on this: I don't want the characters to have to say the whole designation, so I want them to be able to shorten it. But if they were R2 units, calling them Artoo would confuse the viewer, because they would think the characters were talking about R2-D2. And of course my logic is this: giving them the proper dome would solve the problem too. Dumbass.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-27-2008, 12:54 AM
Here is the Wookieepedia explanation about the R4's looking like R2 units:


Because of their increased durability, R4's were the preferred "mech" droids used by the Jedi. Given the intersteller nature of their work, however, most of the R4 droids purchased for the Jedi were modified to include the more expensive R2 style head. This gave them many of the best features of the R2 and R4 series. Many of these droids were further modified by mechanics in the Jedi Temple to permanently interface with the Delta-7 Aethersprite-class light interceptor, until the Jedi moved on to the Delta-7B and Eta-2 Actis-class light interceptor.

So it is more about what is inside the droid than the outer appearance. You can have two computers that look exactly alike, but the hardware and software configuration inside could be a lot different.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-27-2008, 01:53 AM
As to nicknames, R3-S6 is called "Goldie." Gee, I wonder which character comes up with that one . . . :rolleyes:

JediTricks
10-27-2008, 06:00 PM
My favorite line from the last episode: "Heavy always did hate that place." I loved that line, and the read wasn't overly jokey or showy, it felt real like they kinda felt it was paying homage to one of their men who just sacrificed himself... all that wrapped up in a good laugh.


I also liked (and I'm sure some will say this is one of the problems with the program) that one of the clones was nicknamed Droidbait.I didn't catch that, but it is funny, and I don't know why someone would take issue with it. If it were in one of the movies, then I could totally see it, but here it fits.


I can't really complain about the animation too much. It was a conscious decision on Lucas' part, and I think of it in the same was as styles of art that I don't care for. They said they are looking for those results, and they were successful. If they said they were trying for those results and weren't successful, that would be a different story. Honestly, the CGI could be completely photorealistic, and I could be completely unable to tell CGI Anakin from Hayden Christensen, and I would prefer traditional animation while some would argue that it doesn't look realistic enough.For armor, droids, anything non-organic, I think it works ok, but for people it's creepy and weird to see skinny limbs and huge eyes, too much realism set into their cartoony looks. Only Yoda seemed to pull off the cartoony look in the episode I saw.

Chux makes an interesting point about movement, a lot of human characters on the show don't carry any weight when they walk, and their actions when they move aren't really selling it, they're too light. This again I think is a problem of trying to blend realistic and cartoony styling. In the Genndy series you had Jedi being over-the-top and the "camera" movements went with it, they were very quick and light as they bounded, that doesn't translate here because of the mechanics of the movement aren't as fluid, as free, even walking becomes a robotic waddle of sorts because of this. There's no weight really, no rebound, no substance to their movements, and then because they're mixing in realism, also a lack of explosive movement - try Force-pushing right now and you'll get that explosion, but in the show when they do it they generally just have an arm zip out without the kinetic energy behind it, the rest of the arm carrying. You know where they should take some lessons? SW:The Force Unleashed, that game's movements look 10 times better than Clone Wars'.


It's a nitpick, but it's one that really bothers me. They've been using CG in animated movies for ages. It's something guys like Pixar and Dreamworks took care of ages ago.

Based on everything I've seen and read, they tried to reinvent computer animation with new people, without really learning what had worked and hadn't in the past. I'd use the "reinventing the wheel" cliche, but this is more like they tried to reinvent the Ferrarri and barely got to the wheel stage, and haven't yet figured out that oval doesn't work.That would be the Pixar that Lucas founded?



Looking at these on YouTube, as I just did, may help to remove any rose-colored nostalgia glasses you're wearing. To me, those shows look like today's pre-viz animatics. I remember occasionally watching Reboot in around 1994 or so, but that was so long ago and I was so young that I don't remember much about it other than the weird skin colors and CGI. Anyway, in my opinion, these don't even hold a candle to The Clone Wars.Youtube is not a good way to view these, it's choppy and not full resolution. I watched Beast Wars religiously, while it didn't have the polished look of Clone Wars, it had a much better mechanical system most of the time, its physics sold its characters as solid elements reacting to an environment (unlike the sequel, Beast Machines, which is VERY similar to Clone Wars now that I think about it, and vastly inferior to Beast Wars).


I can't imagine the ratings for this show are that great, the timeslot flat-out sucks and the marketing has slowed. Still, I really do hope they can A) get away from telling stories about Anakin & Obi-Wan who are a big drag on the show; B) find their footing with an fresh audience; and C) run 3 years at least.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-27-2008, 06:15 PM
Chux makes an interesting point about movement, a lot of human characters on the show don't carry any weight when they walk, and their actions when they move aren't really selling it, they're too light. This again I think is a problem of trying to blend realistic and cartoony styling. In the Genndy series you had Jedi being over-the-top and the camera movements went with it, they were very quick but they bounded, that doesn't translate here because of the mechanics of the movement aren't as fluid, as free, even walking becomes a robotic waddle of sorts because of this. There's no weight really, no rebound, no substance to their movements, and then because they're mixing in realism, also a lack of explosive movement - try Force-pushing right now and you'll get that explosion, but in the show when they do it they generally just have an arm zip out without the kinetic energy behind it, the rest of the arm carrying.

Okay, now I understand what you are saying. I kind of get this when I see Anakin walking, and he doesn't move up and down too much like humans do. I thought the clones did this more realistically in Rookies. You can kind of see them improving some things slightly here and there - the holograms, for instance, had horizontal lines moving parallel to the TV screen in the first two episodes, but now they move parallel to the actual hologram. So, I don't know if this is an instance of that. But, still, it's not a dealbreaker.


I can't imagine the ratings for this show are that great, the timeslot flat-out sucks and the marketing has slowed. Still, I really do hope they can A) get away from telling stories about Anakin & Obi-Wan who are a big drag on the show; B) find their footing with an fresh audience; and C) run 3 years at least.
I find it odd that they aren't showing commercials for the Hasbro line more. I actually haven't seen any during the show (or at all, since TCW is the only show I watch in a "kids" network).

El Chuxter
10-27-2008, 06:20 PM
That would be the Pixar that Lucas founded?
Yes, which makes it even sadder that the new folks he hired aren't up to snuff. He actually would've been better off contracting with Pixar; given their history, as well as Lucasfilm's existing relationship with Disney, it might've actually happened.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-27-2008, 09:06 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it's a little funny that this (http://shop.starwars.com/kernel/imageload?table=cat_images;ttl2=15;key1=1223426_im g4;key2=-100_img4) reads "Spaceward Ho!"? :D

Phantom-like Menace
10-28-2008, 01:06 AM
So it is more about what is inside the droid than the outer appearance. You can have two computers that look exactly alike, but the hardware and software configuration inside could be a lot different.

I understand that, but that's a lot of unnecessary justification for what could have been made much simpler by giving them the proper heads and not fussing over why they wouldn't have the proper heads.


I loved that line, and the read wasn't overly jokey or showy, it felt real like they kinda felt it was paying homage to one of their men who just sacrificed himself... all that wrapped up in a good laugh.

Yeah, my brother described it as a great eulogy.


I can't imagine the ratings for this show are that great, the timeslot flat-out sucks and the marketing has slowed. Still, I really do hope they can A) get away from telling stories about Anakin & Obi-Wan who are a big drag on the show; B) find their footing with an fresh audience; and C) run 3 years at least.

Does a Friday night timeslot really affect a kid's show, though? Also, let's face it, the adult target demographic doesn't really party hardy on a Friday night. Sci-Fi channel's Friday nights did very well for a long time.


Am I the only one who thinks it's a little funny that this (http://shop.starwars.com/kernel/imageload?table=cat_images;ttl2=15;key1=1223426_im g4;key2=-100_img4) reads "Spaceward Ho!"? :D

Sadly, I think it's more than a little funny. I'm such a juvenile. Thanks for pointing that out, though.

JediTricks
10-28-2008, 06:09 AM
I find it odd that they aren't showing commercials for the Hasbro line more. I actually haven't seen any during the show (or at all, since TCW is the only show I watch in a "kids" network).Well, they cannot legally advertise Star Wars toys during a Star Wars show, not even on cable or satellite, kids merchandising is one area where the FCC retains power over non-terrestrial-broadcast material. However, I did notice Indiana Jones' Akator Playset got a little airtime in the last episode. :p If you watched the network more, you would actually see a commercial for the Hasbro SW line, but not the Clone Wars one strangely, it's for the role-play spring-loaded lightsabers I believe. LEGO however is pushing their Clone Wars line on the network.



Yes, which makes it even sadder that the new folks he hired aren't up to snuff. He actually would've been better off contracting with Pixar; given their history, as well as Lucasfilm's existing relationship with Disney, it might've actually happened.I think you're being a little harsh, this is material other studios who don't do features could produce at the current quality we're seeing here. We take for granted that these vehicles and locales look the way they do because we saw them in the movies and it felt natural to have the CGI produced that way, but that was ILM at the top of its game producing a feature every 3 years, not one a week for 13 or 26 weeks twice a year. Just because the cartoony organic characters don't fit our likings and could use a better physics system doesn't mean the show looks bad.



Does a Friday night timeslot really affect a kid's show, though? Also, let's face it, the adult target demographic doesn't really party hardy on a Friday night. Sci-Fi channel's Friday nights did very well for a long time.Yes, it definitely does. Friday night is a dead zone for this channel, this is where they put all their action cartoons to die a painful death. Then they start moving them around in the schedule to save things but it only makes it worse. Friday 9pm is too late for kids and all wrong for adults. It's not event scheduling either, SFC makes an event out of their 3-hour original programming block, while CN just throws the action cartoon equivalent of the kitchen sink on around it. This is where Justice League Unlimited, new Masters of the Universe, and Megas XLR suffered ratings death. And Spongebob clobbered Clone Wars in the ratings for Malevolence.

pbarnard
10-28-2008, 10:51 AM
And Spongebob clobbered Clone Wars in the ratings for Malevolence.

But he clobbers everyone in the ratings!!!:bandit:

JediTricks
10-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Not really, Spongebob was 20th that night for cable ratings.

DarkArtist
11-06-2008, 12:42 PM
so i have to say i'm really enjoying the CW series. the last episode was awesome with the Clone Troopers... that was brutal, but just plain amazing to watch.

plasticfetish
11-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Friday night is a dead zone for this channel, this is where they put all their action cartoons to die a painful death. Then they start moving them around in the schedule to save things but it only makes it worse. Friday 9pm is too late for kids and all wrong for adults.Just to echo what JT said... I hate the Friday night time slot. If it weren't for the fact that they're replaying episodes on Sunday at 9pm and on Wednesday night also, I'd probably be missing this show.

Friday is a bad night for me, because, A: I work 'till 10pm, B: the kid (who I watch the show with) spends the night at his grandparents, and C: I'm more than likely going to be doing something (anything) else if I have the time off.

Early Sunday evening is the very best slot for a show like this, with a replay at some fixed time during the week. I've voiced my hatred for CN when it came to Transformers... they pretty much killed my (and my son's) interest in the franchise because they couldn't air the cartoon at a decent time. (I'm sort of remembering back to when they did the same thing with the Gundam shows as well.)

Anyway, aside from that we're enjoying The Clone Wars.

Blue2th
11-06-2008, 05:53 PM
so i have to say i'm really enjoying the CW series. the last episode was awesome with the Clone Troopers... that was brutal, but just plain amazing to watch.

Enjoyed that as well. Sort of GI Joe-ish but Clones get eaten, blown up, sacrifice for their comrades and comradery, against all odds hero, soldier episode. :thumbsup:

I'm liking Cody and Rex more and more each episode they're in.

SmokedPorter
11-07-2008, 10:01 PM
I've been enjoying this show. My only hope is that the Separatists win more battles. Grievous was a "scary" threatening character in Episode III & in the cartoon Clone Wars series, while in this series he seems to foul everything up & get scolded. He needs to be more badass.

I also hope they explore the whole "there are heroes on both sides" aspect of the war. Because in a way, the Separatists were right.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-08-2008, 12:43 AM
This episode was kind of meh. It had some cool moments, like the AT-TEs on the asteroid and the IG-86s being badass, but the music was un-Star Wars and something else seemed off. Looking at the episode guide on starwars.com, it was apparently the second episode produced (the first was in the movie). I didn't realize they produced these out of order, but the guides show the original order as well (Rookies, my favorite so far, was produced fourteenth). The guide also mentions and shows a scene where R2-D2 interacted with a treadwell droid, which I don't remember for some reason even though I just watched it.

I'd kind of like to not have Anakin and Obi-Wan fight Grievous in every episode, directly or indirectly.

And Ron Perlman was Gha Nachkt, so that's pretty cool.

Tycho
11-08-2008, 01:59 AM
I missed it tonight purposely. I had dinner with a friend and didn't feel like even bothering with Clone Wars.

So there will be at least one episode on the DVD that I have never seen.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-08-2008, 10:03 AM
I thought the same thing about the music; while I liked the Airspeeder chase in AOTC for the time of the scene, it would've irked me to have that for the whole film, and that's the sound from this one. I didn't know there were midget Trandoshans (which was pronounced as "trand-uh-shins" instead of what I've called "tran-doh-shins" all this time).

Phantom-like Menace
11-08-2008, 12:56 PM
I never had a problem with Ahsoka, and I'm liking her more and more each episode. She's very good at saying what needs to be said to Anakin. It was said that Ahsoka was assigned to Anakin to help him as much as her, and you can really see that in their interactions.


It had some cool moments, like the AT-TEs on the asteroid

That part was great. Very cool way to show us some unique battle planning.

JediTricks
11-08-2008, 06:22 PM
This episode was kind of meh. It had some cool moments, like the AT-TEs on the asteroid and the IG-86s being badass, but the music was un-Star Wars and something else seemed off. Looking at the episode guide on starwars.com, it was apparently the second episode produced (the first was in the movie). I didn't realize they produced these out of order, but the guides show the original order as well (Rookies, my favorite so far, was produced fourteenth). The guide also mentions and shows a scene where R2-D2 interacted with a treadwell droid, which I don't remember for some reason even though I just watched it.

I'd kind of like to not have Anakin and Obi-Wan fight Grievous in every episode, directly or indirectly.Totally agree with all that. And R2-D2 didn't interact with a treadwell that I could see, maybe it's a cut scene or in part 2. The writing for Anakin and Ahsoka was really bad, very far off from the previous eps, and Ahsoka leading the fleet was stupid. They made a mess of this episode. The AT-TEs and the IGs were the only high points for me, and maybe some of the maneuvers with the Jedi Starfighter and Twilight (though the Twilight's escapes are getting dumber and dumber). Even the directing and voice acting sucked in this one.

Oh, and it's so painfully obvious that R3-S6 "Goldie" is a traitorbot. Like "don't need to put it in spoiler text" obvious. That was really sloppy stuff, and yet Ahsoka keeps putting her faith in this thing for no reason. Dumb (unless she too is a traitor, that'd be an awesome twist).



I missed it tonight purposely. I had dinner with a friend and didn't feel like even bothering with Clone Wars.

So there will be at least one episode on the DVD that I have never seen.It's part 1 of 2, so you better watch it. It'll be on again next Friday at 8:30p just before the new ep, but you may want to catch it on Sunday or Wednesday to be sure.

Rocketboy
11-08-2008, 11:54 PM
It'll be on again next Friday at 8:30p just before the new ep, but you may want to catch it on Sunday or Wednesday to be sure.I think they may have stopped that. CN had ads for the new Batman series at 8 and Ben 10 at 8:30 next Friday.

And yeah, it was yet another terrible episode. They are like 0 for 6 now.

jjreason
11-10-2008, 10:55 AM
Oh, and it's so painfully obvious that R3-S6 "Goldie" is a traitorbot. Like "don't need to put it in spoiler text" obvious.

Great, JT. Now I've got NOTHING to look forward to this week. :rolleyes:

:D Even my 9yr old daughter, who was walking in and out of the room during the show, commented that R3 was bad.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-10-2008, 03:24 PM
:D Even my 9yr old daughter, who was walking in and out of the room during the show, commented that R3 was bad.Well, a Jedi hero that has NO chance of ever turning bad kept saying that very thing. So she just followed the clues.

Sure that the droid won't sacrifice itself later to help Sky Guy and Snips? Proof that anyone/-thing has good in them? :o :naive:

Tycho
11-10-2008, 04:05 PM
I can't stand that Sky Guy thing.

Snips is alright. It sort of fits the Star Wars' character personality cliche.

However, it's harder to imagine THIS Anakin that jokes and has a sense of humor, becoming Darth Vader.

The desperate Anakin that's totally off-balance because of Padme? Yeah, I could see him falling to the Dark Side as he does.

Something terrible has to happen to "Snips" to take him back to such desperation and short-sightedness.

JediTricks
11-11-2008, 09:42 PM
I think they may have stopped that. CN had ads for the new Batman series at 8 and Ben 10 at 8:30 next Friday.

And yeah, it was yet another terrible episode. They are like 0 for 6 now.The listing is Batman at 8, CW at 8:30 and 9, and Ben 10 where it always is at 9:30.



Great, JT. Now I've got NOTHING to look forward to this week. :rolleyes:

:D Even my 9yr old daughter, who was walking in and out of the room during the show, commented that R3 was bad.Did you scream at her "NO SPOILERS!!!!!"? :p



Something terrible has to happen to "Snips" to take him back to such desperation and short-sightedness.I like the idea of Ahsoka betraying the Jedi and Anakin resenting her for it despite it being his training that led her there. They'll probably wuss out there, but that'd be an awesome twist from expectations (despite fitting the prequel format).

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-11-2008, 10:29 PM
I like the idea of Ahsoka betraying the Jedi and Anakin resenting her for it despite it being his training that led her there. They'll probably wuss out there, but that'd be an awesome twist from expectations (despite fitting the prequel format).
I'm really not sure how they'll deal with Ahsoka at the end. Seeing as how she's a character aimed to appeal to young girls, I don't think killing her off would necessarily be the way to go. Maybe she'll become a knight (I doubt it) or get reassigned . . . or just reedited into the next release of ROTS. :D :dead:

Also, they're evidently playing this show on Saturday mornings as well, according to a commercial I saw (it probably aired with the episode).

Mad Slanted Powers
11-11-2008, 10:32 PM
I like the idea of Ahsoka betraying the Jedi and Anakin resenting her for it despite it being his training that led her there. They'll probably wuss out there, but that'd be an awesome twist from expectations (despite fitting the prequel format).Based on what Yoda said in the movie about teaching Anakin about letting go, I would expect her to die. Maybe she has some terminal condition and has a short life expectancy. When she dies, that will be one more person Anakin wasn't able to save. He will be reminded of that when Palpatine tells him about the Sith Powers to keep people alive.

Rocketboy
11-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I pray that Ashoka's death is slow, painful and takes 3 episodes.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-11-2008, 11:53 PM
I pray that Ashoka's death is slow, painful and takes 3 episodes.
Perhaps during the story arc, you'll finally learn how to spell her name. ;)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-11-2008, 11:59 PM
Perhaps during the story arc, you'll finally learn how to spell her name. ;)

lol lol lol lol JJL for the win! I don't mind her at all actually. THe relationship between her and Anakin is getting better. If she would just stop saying "Artooey" she'd be much better.

I thought this last episode was alright, it had some great moments, but wasn't as good as the previous episodes. :thumbsup:

Rocketboy
11-12-2008, 12:13 AM
Perhaps during the story arc, you'll finally learn how to spell her name. ;)It would only matter if I cared how to spell it's name.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-12-2008, 12:24 AM
It would only matter if I cared how to spell it's name.
It would also matter if you knew the difference between "its" and "it's."

I'm going to keep breaking your balls until you make one perfect post. :p :D

Beast
11-12-2008, 12:39 AM
The preview for 'Bombad Jedi' on the Clone Wars Blu-Ray just rocks!

I can't wait for the episode. Poor C-3PO. Or should that be... C-3SO.

JediTricks
11-12-2008, 05:11 AM
Also, they're evidently playing this show on Saturday mornings as well, according to a commercial I saw (it probably aired with the episode).Yeah, we just got a press release about that.



Based on what Yoda said in the movie about teaching Anakin about letting go, I would expect her to die. Maybe she has some terminal condition and has a short life expectancy. When she dies, that will be one more person Anakin wasn't able to save. He will be reminded of that when Palpatine tells him about the Sith Powers to keep people alive.Too obvious though, too repetitive. By having her turn evil, or having her always secretly evil, it also makes him incapable of saving his loved ones. It also foreshadows his own fall.



Perhaps during the story arc, you'll finally learn how to spell her name. ;)Until Tycho gets it right, nobody else can be called on it. That and "vultcher" which he's been throwing out there lately. :p

Tycho
11-12-2008, 10:45 AM
Too obvious though, too repetitive. By having her turn evil, or having her always secretly evil, it also makes him incapable of saving his loved ones. It also foreshadows his own fall.

Lucas has been all about that though: repetitive lessons for children. That's how he views Star Wars. Remember, we had to have constant reminders of what was supposed to be "cute" throughout all the movies as well.

Rocketboy
11-12-2008, 11:42 AM
It would also matter if you knew the difference between "its" and "it's."

I'm going to keep breaking your balls until you make one perfect post. :p :DO no U ain't!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-12-2008, 01:40 PM
o No U Ain't!
Nooooooo!!!! :D

JediTricks
11-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Lucas has been all about that though: repetitive lessons for children. That's how he views Star Wars. Remember, we had to have constant reminders of what was supposed to be "cute" throughout all the movies as well.
It's too many times to that well. My well is also repetitive but hasn't been taken to the well as often, and hasn't been properly fleshed out for crap in the prequels. Dooku just IS evil, and Anakin's fall is supremely unconvincing.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-15-2008, 12:34 AM
God, I really loved this episode! Grievous was a total badass. His killing Gha Nachkt was a total surprise to me; I assume that's why they kept showing the PG rating. I also loved Grievous beating up on the clones, and he was pretty scary in the parts with Ahsoka in the storage room. R3 was a traitor, as we were all pretty much expecting, but I thought it was still done pretty well.

I was also really glad that R2's memory wasn't wiped, as I was kind of worried about that, and it seems like it never has been (at least while he's been in service of the Republic). I like the idea that he's the only one who knows the whole story.

Denal was the clone with the blue armor, apparently, and he looked cool.

The hologram lines were parallel to the screen again instead of the bottom of the hologram itself, like it was on the first two episodes, and it was kind of disconcerting. The music still had some of the weird percussion stuff but I thought it was handled better here.

And the Jar Jar stuff looks like some seriously goofy fun. Ahmed Best is back, which is totally awesome!

Blue2th
11-15-2008, 01:12 AM
I'm liking the music for Clone Wars.
A mixture of the traditional Star Wars type orchestration on the intro and some scenes, then a rhythmic sound with electric guitar, bass, contemporary instruments with percussion in other scenes.

Really quite cool.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-15-2008, 10:50 AM
God, I really loved this episode! Grievous was a total badass. His killing Gha Nachkt was a total surprise to me; I assume that's why they kept showing the PG rating. I also loved Grievous beating up on the clones, and he was pretty scary in the parts with Ahsoka in the storage room. R3 was a traitor, as we were all pretty much expecting, but I thought it was still done pretty well.

I was also really glad that R2's memory wasn't wiped, as I was kind of worried about that, and it seems like it never has been (at least while he's been in service of the Republic). I like the idea that he's the only one who knows the whole story.

And the Jar Jar stuff looks like some seriously goofy fun. Ahmed Best is back, which is totally awesome!I also liked R2's fight scene. No redemption (both morally and scrap metal-based ;) ) for R3, I suppose. I thought Ahsoka would at least be hurt dueling one-on-one; guess she's among the strongest padawans ever, since GG has beaten Jedi Knights in pairs.

I am waiting for a SW EU writer to have a story where 200-500+ years post-ROJ that some scrounger finds an old, obsolete R2 unit and accesses its memory banks to tell the WHOLE story. Would be awesome.

I am looking forward to the bumbling Gungan, too.

Tycho
11-15-2008, 11:08 AM
Last night's episode was really good. While I was not overly into Clone Wars before, I learned that I still care very much about what happens to R2D2. He's truly a Classic Star Wars favorite!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-16-2008, 01:17 PM
I thought last nights episode was awesome. R2 and R3 going at it was really fun to watch and I loved how spunky and fiesty R2 can be. Great episode.

.............not really lookin' forward to next weeks episode though. Bleurgh.

And I know this has probably been brought up, but i'm still kinda "meh" about how Grievous is coughing and how that wasn't supposed to happen until the end of the CW.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-16-2008, 04:34 PM
And I know this has probably been brought up, but i'm still kinda "meh" about how Grievous is coughing and how that wasn't supposed to happen until the end of the CW.
I actually don't think it has yet. To Lucas and co., the coughing was supposed to indicate how Grievous was like an early pre-Vader version of a cyborg that wasn't working too well, so he was sick. This was likely developed after the first two seasons of the cartoon had been released, so to reconcile it, Tartakovsky and co. had Mace crush Grievous's chest so he would cough (despite the fact that his chestplate was just fine five minutes later at the start of ROTS). The new show is more in-line with what the cough was supposed to represent in the first place. He doesn't even always do it in the new series, or in ROTS for that matter, so it's not too hard to believe. We can just say that he had stocked up on lozenges for when he was in the Tartakovsky cartoon. :D

Beast
11-16-2008, 05:04 PM
.............not really lookin' forward to next weeks episode though. Bleurgh.
*Glowers*

You will enjoy the Jar Jar Binks episode. You hear me.

Battle Droid
11-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Only thing I'll enjoy about it is Nute Gunray.:p

stillakid
11-16-2008, 07:40 PM
And I know this has probably been brought up, but i'm still kinda "meh" about how Grievous is coughing and how that wasn't supposed to happen until the end of the CW.

He's my favorite Prequel character even though he doesn't really belong in the Star Wars universe. I'd love to see who he was before "that" happened to him and, of course, the event or events that led to the creature we love now. :love: The coughing is as much a part of him as Vader's Scuba breathing is and he wouldn't be nearly as adorable without it. :)

El Chuxter
11-16-2008, 09:11 PM
I'll be a lone voice of dissent, but I caught a re-run of this because of all the positive buzz, and I am still unimpressed. While there were some good elements--Grievous in general, some minor details in characterization (I was actually quite impressed with Ahsoka biting her lip while skydiving)--the episode was more of the half-arsed silliness that the other two eps I saw were. I don't plan to watch next week, but I can't believe Jar Jar would do anything but make this show more respectable.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-16-2008, 09:54 PM
Seriously, Chux - go watch Rookies online. There's little-to-no "silliness" and no Ahsoka.

bigbarada
11-16-2008, 10:12 PM
It's the "silliness" that makes the show enjoyable for me. I can't think of anything more boring than having everyone just walk around being a total bad*** in every single episode. You have to have the humor in there to make the show fun to watch.

El Chuxter
11-16-2008, 11:13 PM
But you wouldn't say Luke was running around being a bad*** in every single episode of the original trilogy, would you? There's humor there, mostly in the form of C-3PO, but it flows naturally and doesn't feel shoehorned in, like "Don't drop that!"

bigbarada
11-16-2008, 11:44 PM
But you wouldn't say Luke was running around being a bad*** in every single episode of the original trilogy, would you? There's humor there, mostly in the form of C-3PO, but it flows naturally and doesn't feel shoehorned in, like "Don't drop that!"

I actually laughed at that scene in this week's episodes, just because there were a couple of layers to that joke. That kind of humor has been a staple of sitcom characters from Frank Burns to Steve Urkel.

Regardless, it's no worse than the stuff that we got treated to in the Droids and Ewoks cartoon. Especially the second season of the Ewoks cartoon.

preacher
11-17-2008, 10:56 PM
This series has surprised me. Ahsoka bugs me still. Not because of her character; actually I kind of dig her, but because having her as a padawan of Anakin is extremely unbelievable.

Anakin is given the respect he deserves. Lucas himself could learn a thing or two from the writers of this series. In this cartoon Anakin does not come across as a whiney little boy, but rather a courageous, respected warrior who has bragging rights. I like this Anakin far more than I will ever like Hayden's Anakin, or George's Anakin. Whatever. The dynamic between Obi Wan and Anakin works. This is the Anakin I envisioned when Yoda first professed to Luke that Anakin was a great warrior.

The show has only been mildly disappointing at times I think mainly because of its hurried pace. You just get comfortable and familiar with the characters and its over. The story arc about the malovent and R2s abduction were well crafted and I think that if each story arc were an hour long the episodes would be better paced.

The Yoda episode was too fast-paced or cluttered- something. I felt nothing for the clones and couldn't understand what Yoda was seeing in them. They seemed to have the exact same characterization. Yoda's face off against Asajj was a great moment though. One of the best moments in this series yet.

The Rookies episode didn't suffer from lack of characterization. When the outpost was destroyed I felt just the slightest emotion for the clone's sacrifice (I can't remember his name).

The R2 D2 abduction was my favorite, and I realized i still have a soft spot for the overweight glob of grease. I loved the fight between him and R3. Great payoff. I expected it, but it was satisying to see it none the less. Even that pang of jealousy R2 felt when Anakin told him R3 was his replacement was classic R2 and brought a smile to my face. It was such a treat to watch R2 time and again outsmart his captor.

The JarJar episode is going to be interesting.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-20-2008, 02:46 AM
Here (http://enewsi.ning.com/video/video/show?id=2155715%3AVideo%3A1670) is a preview for Bombad Jedi. Something about this was absolutely hilarious to me. lol

"I knew something like this would happen!" :D

El Chuxter
11-20-2008, 01:19 PM
I have to admit, I laughed at "Heading for meesa!" "Yes, heading for you, sir!"

pbarnard
11-20-2008, 01:30 PM
I think this will be the episode that sinks or swims it. Is it going to be the DS9 Ferengi episode of the season (comedic relief in the midst of grimness)? Or is it going to be an absolute farce?

I love the character concept of Jar-Jar. Perfect innocent/patsy. He's used and abused by everyone, Qui-gonn and Padme, Palpatine and the Jedi. He's naive, the rest are realists waiting to use him. Used wisely, he's hillarious and has sublte if not profound affect on the outcome. Used poorly, well, we'll see.

No matter what, I think the Jar-Jar haters will stop watching (who haven't already) after this episode and the diatribes of how could they use Jar-Jar again will start. So the ratings and survivability of the show despite Lucas pumping his own cash into it, will be interesting after this point.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-20-2008, 04:33 PM
I have to admit, I laughed at "Heading for meesa!" "Yes, heading for you, sir!"
It sounded to me like he said "yousa," but either way works. Whatever's funnier to you, I guess. :D


I think this will be the episode that sinks or swims it. Is it going to be the DS9 Ferengi episode of the season (comedic relief in the midst of grimness)? Or is it going to be an absolute farce?
The fact that Kevin Rubio (of TROOPS and Tag & Bink fame) wrote it gives me high hopes.


I love the character concept of Jar-Jar. Perfect innocent/patsy. He's used and abused by everyone, Qui-gonn and Padme, Palpatine and the Jedi. He's naive, the rest are realists waiting to use him. Used wisely, he's hillarious and has sublte if not profound affect on the outcome. Used poorly, well, we'll see.
I still think Jar Jar gets dumped on unfairly. When I was nine years old, I thought he was hilarious. Now I just wish he didn't step in crap and get farted on or smashed in the nuts so much, but I don't hate him. He was pretty hilarious in his Colbert Report and Robot Chicken appearances, and that was with Ahmed Best playing him. Hopefully this episode will bring back people who used to like him, or give him new fans in the first place. The responses to the preview have appeared to be much more positive than I thought they would.


No matter what, I think the Jar-Jar haters will stop watching (who haven't already) after this episode and the diatribes of how could they use Jar-Jar again will start. So the ratings and survivability of the show despite Lucas pumping his own cash into it, will be interesting after this point.
People who hate Jar Jar also tend to hate the prequels and everything associated with George Lucas post-1996 or so, so they probably either haven't been watching or haven't gotten into it. Not all of them, but a great deal, anyway.

bigbarada
11-21-2008, 12:13 AM
I'm stoked that Jar Jar is back and is going to have a whole episode devoted to him. Kudos to the writers of this show for not abandoning the character.

Phantom-like Menace
11-21-2008, 01:49 AM
The fact that Kevin Rubio (of TROOPS and Tag & Bink fame) wrote it gives me high hopes.

I hadn't heard that. High hopes indeed. TROOPS is awesome and Tag & Bink are hysterical. I might even be able to get my prequel-hating, Clone Wars-detesting friend to check this out. I've gone from not caring whether I manage to see it to wishing I could watch it first run tomorrow (going to be camping instead).


I still think Jar Jar gets dumped on unfairly. When I was nine years old, I thought he was hilarious. Now I just wish he didn't step in crap and get farted on or smashed in the nuts so much, but I don't hate him. He was pretty hilarious in his Colbert Report and Robot Chicken appearances, and that was with Ahmed Best playing him. Hopefully this episode will bring back people who used to like him, or give him new fans in the first place. The responses to the preview have appeared to be much more positive than I thought they would.

People who hate Jar Jar also tend to hate the prequels and everything associated with George Lucas post-1996 or so, so they probably either haven't been watching or haven't gotten into it. Not all of them, but a great deal, anyway.

Honestly, I think the prequels get dumped on unfairly because of Jar-Jar. He's representative of the childishness that went into the prequels, and it would be there without him, but he's the one people took one look at and had to draw a line in the sand. If you asked someone to explain what was wrong with the prequels in four syllables or less, they'll simply say, "Jar-Jar."

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this episode now, and I'll have to tell my friend's Rubio wrote it.

El Chuxter
11-21-2008, 02:00 AM
It's kinda ironic, but, as much as I think Jar Jar was overused in TPM, it's as bad or worse that he was underused in the other two films.

bigbarada
11-21-2008, 02:14 AM
It's kinda ironic, but, as much as I think Jar Jar was overused in TPM, it's as bad or worse that he was underused in the other two films.

Agreed. Lucas could have redeemed the character, but instead chose to abandon him. I could understand cutting his role down some in Ep2, but to leave him out of Ep3 entirely (with the exception of one cameo) was extremely disappointing.

I'm not a fan of farting and poop jokes, but aside from that I had no complaints about Jar Jar at all.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-21-2008, 02:33 AM
There was only one fart joke, and the icky icky goo might not have been poop. Both were directed at Jar Jar. I read an essay in defense of Jar Jar (that mysteriously vanished from theforce.net) that said there could be significance to that.

Ando
11-21-2008, 02:27 PM
I think I am actually looking forward to the Clone Wars episode tonight featuring Jar Jar.

bigbarada
11-21-2008, 04:50 PM
I think I am actually looking forward to the Clone Wars episode tonight featuring Jar Jar.

Me too.:yes:

JediTricks
11-21-2008, 05:45 PM
I didn't think much of last week's episode. Grievous killing one of his sneaky informants was downright stupid, this is a guy who actually gets stuff done - if you don't like him charging more, don't let him in on that much of the info. He could be a useful resource, but we have to show Grievous being a badass so it's kill everybody time.

R2 vs R3 was the worst payoff, no emotion, poor editing and angles, just robots bumping into each other and zapping each other. Duel of the Droids my aunt fanny!

Ahsoka was unlikable again, and her scene against Grievous was ridiculous, hiding in the dark, why doesn't he just tear the whole place apart? Ahsoka wasn't much of a leader either, just told guys to do something stupid really. And then there's no payoff when she discovers HOW wrong she's been about R3.


Tonight's episode I don't think will make or break the series, but I do believe it's a big mistake to have both the semi-unlikable characters in the prequel trilogy together - Jar Jar & 3PO probably shouldn't hang out too much.

Beast
11-21-2008, 09:43 PM
Awesome episode. Best one so far.

Yay Jar Jar! :D

SmokedPorter
11-21-2008, 09:43 PM
Silly episode tonight but still enjoyable. Are they really re-airing the Malevolence series next week? If so, that sucks.

Battle Droid
11-21-2008, 09:53 PM
Worst Episode yet, the only thing I liked in it was the Confederacy droids, and Nute Gunray.

bigbarada
11-21-2008, 10:54 PM
Awesome episode. Best one so far.

Yay Jar Jar! :D

I enjoyed it a lot. Glad to see they didn't tone down Jar Jar's silliness. I want a toy of that slug monster too.

Favorite quote:

Threepio: The ship has been destroyed.
Padme: Battle Droids?
Threepio: No.
Padme: Jar Jar?
Threepio: Jar Jar.

:D

Beast
11-21-2008, 11:19 PM
I enjoyed it a lot. Glad to see they didn't tone down Jar Jar's silliness. I want a toy of that slug monster too.

Favorite quote:

Threepio: The ship has been destroyed.
Padme: Battle Droids?
Threepio: No.
Padme: Jar Jar?
Threepio: Jar Jar.

:D
Yeah, it was a great one. I like seeing Jar Jar and 3PO paired up.

I can't wait for the Jedi Jar Jar figure. I don't buy many Star Wars figures anymore...

But that one I have to get for my Binks collection.