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JimJamBonds
10-13-2010, 03:58 PM
I'm not a big fan of going back and spending another 30 min. on the same subject matter.

Tycho
10-13-2010, 06:42 PM
Why haven't they done an episode with Old Jira yet?

This could be as fascinating as Mandalorian tea. The audience is holding their breath to learn how the Clone Wars have affected fruit sales on Tatooine.

Animating Old Jira would be almost as cool as witnessing the birth of the Ice Cream Maker Guy on Clone Wars! :crazed:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-13-2010, 07:56 PM
JT, I thought the same thing about the added preview for episode seven. That one's looked very intriguing to me ever since seeing the teaser for it at the end of Season 2.

Eventually, going back and watching everything in chronological order should be, at least, interesting, whenever they get around to releasing the timeline. For now, though, they really need to get more action in there.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-15-2010, 11:56 PM
I rewatched Corruption before seeing The Academy tonight. As a whole, it's a fairly interesting two-parter. But hearing Rex talk about him and Anakin going off to fight with Kit Fisto made me really want to follow that storyline instead. Ah well.

Almec's guilt was fairly obvious right off the bat, especially with his quick finger-pointing at Death Watch in Corruption. I wasn't too keen on the idea of focusing the episode on four random kids, thinking it could very well end up being The Boxcar Children in Space - and to an extent, it was, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

While rewatching Corruption, though, I noted some things . . .



- The people of Mandalore are starving, so the smugglers fill the need by bringing in tea. It's made clear later that this tea is merely a beverage with no inherent nutritional value. So why smuggle in something so useless instead of any number of vital supplies which we're told they actually need?

- The tea is brought into a customs agent who bypasses the safety inspection for an entire shipment. Yet the tea is not illicit at this point, it hasn't been tampered with during delivery, so why bribe the customs agent?
The tea shipment isn't officially scheduled, which means they need to bribe the customs official to allow it to pass. This was presumably arranged by the superintendent, who wanted to cut costs and keep money for himself while still (making it look like he was) providing extra drinks to the children and thus doing something to help the supply crisis.



- The tea is then "cut", diluted with a chemical which the chemists at the warehouse state clearly has to be measured in properly or people will get sick. Later in the episode, the consumers get sick - and FAST. Somehow the process of delivering the worldwide shipment to the tiny warehouse that cuts it all and then distributing it to the schoolchildren happens in less than a whole day - Padme arrives, gets the most over-the-top welcome parade of all time, sleeps, visits the hospital with Satine to find it full of sick children. Moreover, the dilution must have been WAAAAAAAAY screwed up since most toxins take quite a while to build up in a system when they're meant to be a diluting agent to a beverage.
Well, the school seems to be fairly near the warehouse, or at least within a short travel distance. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that the tea could have shipped to the school early the next morning.


- The superintendent of school says the tea is not provided by the school, but the kids are bringing it from home. Then he steals a bottle from a kid and they use the super tea analyzing machine built specifically to integrate with these bottles to find out it's full of Slavin, the toxic chemical. Then the superintendent uses his access to check delivery logs... of a product he just said the school doesn't supply and the kids are bringing from home. Why does a school superintendent have access to outside delivery logs? And then he tries to sneak off after the scheme implicates him in taking delivery from a shipping company - and it's somehow involved with the school not getting enough money. So are they bringing it from home or is he selling it to the students? Is tea really that great a moneymaker that it can help pay for pencils? And how are they feeding these kids lunch if the planet is suffering dwindling supplies? The kids seem fully normal like nothing's different. And if the planet is suffering financially, how are they able to have pocket money to pay for tea?
No, the kids aren't bringing it from home - it's provided by an outside vendor, he says. Nowhere in the episode is it mentioned or implied that the kids or their families are buying them separately and bringing them to school. So it's offered through the school but (obviously) not made there, is my understanding.

They check the delivery logs at the docks, not at the school or anything, which doesn't sound unreasonable.



- This was my favorite nonsense. Earlier, we were told the slavin is very dangerous and has to be mixed just right. Once the tea has been analyzed by The csi machine and shown to have a high level of slavin, Satine exclaims that she didn't know slavin was lethal, and the doctor running the machine says it usually isn't. Uhhhh, what?
It's only dangerous in the wrong dosage - the same goes with just about anything even in the real world, from ibuprofen to alcohol.


- The shipping middleman admits his part in the game unabashedly and says his hands are clean legally because he didn't make the tea. Either he's incredibly ignorant about how this works since he gives them mountains of knowledge about the illicit operation moments later, or he's correct and knows he has nothing to fear for his part in all of this. How can either of these things be accurate when he's this arrogant? How can the school superintendent feel he has anything to fear when this guy does not? How can he have SO MUCH MORE knowledge about the crime to come and not at least feel concerned for his freedom?
Siddiq specifically mentions that his corporate contracts protect him. He's arrogant because he feels he's untouchable. He can tell Satine anything and nothing can happen to him - he just doesn't give a crap. Presumably the school officials do not have the same protection.

It wasn't the greatest episode, but I don't think it's as bad as you're suggesting, either. Perhaps they could have made some of the complicated elements more simple as they apparently don't all come through with only one viewing.

Still, I'm really looking forward to the return of Aurra Sing next week.

nohagent
10-16-2010, 01:17 AM
See a lot of focus on Ahsoka this season. Perhaps the hashed a lot of this out to give us a killer 2nd half of the season? Anyway, I'm waiting to see the commandos. Building my kid his commando costume for halloween right now

JimJamBonds
10-16-2010, 09:40 AM
I thought last nights episode was ok, nothing great really.

Darth Metalmute
10-16-2010, 11:59 AM
I thought last nights episode was the best of the season next to the Kamino invasion one. And that's not saying a whole heck of a lot.

Once again, the apparent Jedi lack of ability to use, oh I don't know, the Force, rears its ugly head and puts four young cadets in harms way. Asoka had plenty of time to start using the Force to throw around guards before they brought in the children. But yet waited for the kids to enter the room to start a fight.

And another thing, Satine is willing to take as much electric shock she can, in order to not sign a falsified admission, but the Prime Minister can't take any shock whatsoever in order to protect his career and prevent life of imprisonment? Why did he call off the guards? And why did the guards stop fighting knowing that they would also suffer the same fate? All they had to do was recapture the kids and the sappy Jedi would surrender.

JediTricks
10-16-2010, 03:52 PM
Another crappy episode with too much talk and bluster and pontificating, no main characters, Ahsoka is barely in it and her plan is utter garbage and she doesn't do much of anything once it's enacted. Metalmute is absolutely right about the prime minister copping out simply to end the episode, made no sense. And apparently it's everybody's fault that there's corruption, and when someone actually does something about it, nobody listens.

JimJamBonds
10-16-2010, 03:54 PM
Once again, the apparent Jedi lack of ability to use, oh I don't know, the Force, rears its ugly head and puts four young cadets in harms way. Asoka had plenty of time to start using the Force to throw around guards before they brought in the children. But yet waited for the kids to enter the room to start a fight.

That sort of thing happens throughout the Saga as well.

Rocketboy
10-16-2010, 04:04 PM
I missed it a 9:00, so I started to watch the west coast feed at midnight, but I fell asleep half way though the episode.
I have no idea how it ended, but I'm assuming it went something like this:

And I would have gotten away with it if weren't for you meddling kids.

Darth Metalmute
10-16-2010, 05:20 PM
That sort of thing happens throughout the Saga as well.

Mainly the Prequels though.

The Jedi seem to have the Superman complex where there pretty much invincible except when they forget they are.

jedibear
10-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Another poorly written episode.

This show is in it's third season...a season when most shows start kicking into high gear, creatively. (I know, I know...my thinking here may be colored by all of those Star Trek shows in the 80s and 90s :rolleyes:

Seriously though...so far, this season is in a rut....started off with a bit of a bang with the two clone-centric episodes that, looking back at them, looked like holdovers from last season compared with what we've subsequently seen.

The theme "Secrets Revealed" is an unnecessary tag line (like the "Rise of the Bounty Hunters" one used last year)...a more accurate one would've been "Political Intrigue"...would've been more direct with what we've seen so far.

It's not that presenting stories focusing on political machinations and maneuverings is a bad thing...it's just that these last few have been sloppy and poorly written. Just look back at JT's great dissection of the kiddie-beverage episode for confirmation..he brings up a lot of valid points...and there are a lot of them...one or two issues with a story can be okay, even expected, but when the story falls apart like a game of Jenga because of so many questions, well...that's bad writing....

...and, unfortunately, this show is suffering from that in a major way this season.

I read that Lucas commented at CV that the team was already well into plotting the fifth season, meaning three and four were basically done. With a show requiring as much lead time as this one would seem to with the animation/rendering demands, it's going to be a sad thing if the show just keeps veering along in this listless direction with no chance of improvement.

Who know...all my fretting could be moot in a few weeks...maybe we'll see a crop of tightly-written stories featuring the main characters that bought us into the CW saga in the first place...with the focus returned to the Clone Wars featured in the title of the show....I'll remain hopeful...because I want to like this, I really do...it's Star Wars, after all....

Mad Slanted Powers
10-16-2010, 06:24 PM
And I would have gotten away with it if weren't for you meddling kids.


Well, there was a Scooby Doo promo at the bottom of the screen a couple times during the show.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-16-2010, 07:51 PM
Seriously though...so far, this season is in a rut....started off with a bit of a bang with the two clone-centric episodes that, looking back at them, looked like holdovers from last season compared with what we've subsequently seen.
Well, you're right that we've seen leftovers from last season, but you're wrong on which ones. Only half of the episodes seen so far were actually produced in Season 3 - they were Clone Cadets, ARC Troopers, and Corruption. The others were all Season 2.

I do have faith that things will get back on the right track. Putting four largely "talky" episodes in a row was a bad move, but given the previews and what they discussed at Celebration V, we haven't seen anything yet. I don't think you need to completely write off the show.

Turambar
10-17-2010, 09:34 PM
Looks like next episode might get back on track. I loved seasons 1 & 2 but these seem like episodes that didnt make the cut during first 2. I'd like to see it get back to the adventures of Anakin & Obi-Wan, as that's why I started watching in the first place.

Ando
10-18-2010, 12:21 PM
This last episode was BORING. I am 1 episode away from deleting the series recording setting from my DVR.

JediTricks
10-18-2010, 04:30 PM
I missed it a 9:00, so I started to watch the west coast feed at midnight, but I fell asleep half way though the episode.
I have no idea how it ended, but I'm assuming it went something like this:Yeah, pretty much.


Another poorly written episode.

This show is in it's third season...a season when most shows start kicking into high gear, creatively. (I know, I know...my thinking here may be colored by all of those Star Trek shows in the 80s and 90s :rolleyes:

Seriously though...so far, this season is in a rut....started off with a bit of a bang with the two clone-centric episodes that, looking back at them, looked like holdovers from last season compared with what we've subsequently seen.

The theme "Secrets Revealed" is an unnecessary tag line (like the "Rise of the Bounty Hunters" one used last year)...a more accurate one would've been "Political Intrigue"...would've been more direct with what we've seen so far.

It's not that presenting stories focusing on political machinations and maneuverings is a bad thing...it's just that these last few have been sloppy and poorly written. Just look back at JT's great dissection of the kiddie-beverage episode for confirmation..he brings up a lot of valid points...and there are a lot of them...one or two issues with a story can be okay, even expected, but when the story falls apart like a game of Jenga because of so many questions, well...that's bad writing....

...and, unfortunately, this show is suffering from that in a major way this season.

I read that Lucas commented at CV that the team was already well into plotting the fifth season, meaning three and four were basically done. With a show requiring as much lead time as this one would seem to with the animation/rendering demands, it's going to be a sad thing if the show just keeps veering along in this listless direction with no chance of improvement.

Who know...all my fretting could be moot in a few weeks...maybe we'll see a crop of tightly-written stories featuring the main characters that bought us into the CW saga in the first place...with the focus returned to the Clone Wars featured in the title of the show....I'll remain hopeful...because I want to like this, I really do...it's Star Wars, after all....True true, although I don't think that highly of the season openers.

jonthejedi
10-19-2010, 03:46 AM
I may be closer than Ando...it's been a snoozer so far this season. I know every episode can't be like "Point Rain," but seriously...children should be watching it now, especially if they can't fall asleep.

nohagent
10-19-2010, 04:19 PM
i was hoping to see the commandos on the show before halloween so my kids friends could identify his halloween costume....oh well

Tycho
10-19-2010, 05:53 PM
A good Star Wars "political intrigue" episode would be James Luceno's NOVEL "Cloak of Deception" which (before TPM) showed Qui-Gon investigating the set-up to the Trade Federation being legally granted the right to buy their gigantic Droid Army while Darth Sidious manipulated things in the shadows. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan fought a lot of pirates (set-up by Sidious to provide evidence of raiders so the Senate would vote to allow Nute Gunray his Droid Army) and there was plenty of action - this in a NOVEL for those of you who don't read SW books.

The Clone Wars is an animated action show - but if a NOVEL can deliver action in a political intrigue story, CW certainly should be able to with motion-picture. *sigh*

Meanwhile, my image of Mandalore is deeply altered.

MANDALORE ACCORDING TO TYCHO - BUT IMPLIED BY PAST EU OFFERINGS:


Mandalore is like a huge pirates' nest of a planet, but populated by elite, mechanized, and sophistocated warriors.
Not all of them are blonde-haired, blue-eyed, humans. Jango Fett was not (though see point 3 below)
Mandalorian is NOT a race of people. It describes a martial-artist / weapons expert. Thus there can be a Rodian Mandalorian. He'd wear the helmet and be trained to use state-of-the-art weaponry.
Yes, perhaps there ARE planets (a planet) who's history was that of a world-base to put all the spoils of conquest on - most importantly, this high-tech weaponry. It should look like a fortress world - Cloud City with assault cannons / anti-invasion defenses everywhere. And there might be more ART, valuable baubles, etc than Hondo Ohnoka could ever DREAM of accumulating in a lifetime. Mandalorians are not pirates. They are conquerors!
The Death Watch's aim might be to restore and honor Mandalore's allegiance to the Sith, as they owe their eternal service to the Dark Lords since their defeat by Lord Qel Droma.
Every man, WOMAN, and CHILD should be seen getting combat training in the Mandalorian Arts. Yes, the "Academy" on the cartoon show sort of implies that, but it should not be subtle - it's their way of life. Thus the Ruling Council should break down into "honor duels" with disagreements COMMONLY being settled by bloodshed. However, subordinates must follow military discipline and earn their right to challenge another Mandalorian peer in an "honor duel."
Thus, Dutchess Satine should prove to be stronger than she looks, and shocking as it might be, KILL some of the ministers she disagrees with (if they kill her, they'd replace her).
Also, the original Mando'ade (or Mandalore - the leader) was very likely NOT HUMAN. What happened to non-humans on Mandalore? (That live there - not visit to engage in illicit trade)?
Mandalorians HATE Jedi. They absolutely hate them! There should be resentment shown Jedi visiting Mandalore, right down to the kids who'd be taught that by their parents. For Dutchess Satine to have a relationship with Obi-Wan Kenobi, they should do the flashback story (and make it action packed) to explain this. It would be cool if it were set perhaps back in the day when he was a padawan, and we'd have Qui-Gon in an episode as his master).
The Republic's Clones began as Mandalorian in design (the gear, helmets, etc). The Death Watch (Pre-Vizla) might try to recruit Capt. Rex and Cmdr. Cody. That would make for a very interesting episode and perhaps a reason why the Stormtroopers of the OT look more Kaminoan (in helmet appearance) than the Mandalorian-style T-visor that Rex (and originally) Cody wear.
I still think Han Solo's father should be introduced, a DNA template for a new line of clones - really making Boba Fett hate Han Solo later. However, if Boba is about 11 years old now, Han should be 9 or 10. A "Secrets Revealed" thing should be that either the Republic, the Kaminoans, or even Dooku and the Separatists, had a back-up guy for the DNA donor for the Clones, and it was "Solo senior." This fits in with what's been OMITTED of Han's origins in the EU.
The later controversies I would campaign to add in to the Star Wars EU would serve to justify why CW is spending so much time on Mandalore. I mean there IS a point, right?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Okay, now this was more like it! Aside from the somewhat jokey ending, which I felt undercut the drama a little bit too much, I loved this episode. The music was really great - I loved the use of Ahsoka's theme, Yoda's theme, and Leia's theme on Alderaan. (And something similar to Leia's haircut in the conference, too.) The showdown between Ahsoka and Aurra was a bit short but still pretty cool. Even though politics still played a large role, it wasn't as labored as the last few episodes have been. Hopefully the Cad Bane episode in two weeks will be an even bigger step back in the right direction.

The timeline here is now really, really screwy. Clearly Ziro's still in prison from the events of the movie, even though he was let out at the end of Season One. His mention of wanting to hire somebody better, along with the preview for the next episode, leads me to believe that this is when he hires Cad Bane to break him out of prison - but why is Jabba involved? And Aurra Sing helps free Ziro too, so what's the deal? I guess we'll see . . .

Tycho
10-22-2010, 09:59 PM
As I plan to buy the Season 2 DVD set on Tuesday, this frustrates me because perhaps LF is planning to release the series again, in correct episode order, in a new box set later on down the line.

BlueRay, 3D, and so on.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-23-2010, 12:34 AM
I don't think they'd re-release it just to put it in the story order. They might do a big ol' box set after the show's completely done, or something, but I wouldn't worry about that right now.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-23-2010, 08:59 AM
Secrets revealed... remember that tagline. Although, it could be like Harry Potter; wait years and get a let-down reveal (according to some) after a drawn-out storyline (also similar to New Jedi Order or Fate of the Jedi EU series).

I want a soundtrack of the music! The last two episodes have had wonderful backgrounds. :yes:

I finally saw the end of the previous episode (for some reason, I stopped it after only 10 minutes before), which confused me when I saw this recent one (they weren't chronologically after each other, right? or have I already gotten confused with this odd "continuity" in season 3?). No one bandaged Ahsoka's arm for the flight home? "Good shot" comment from the Padawan about a straight shot with nothing blocking Padme's aim?

Overall, it was pretty good, action-wise.

Maerj2000
10-23-2010, 09:36 AM
I liked this one, one thing that REALLY helps is when they use music from the movies. Just hearing a little bit of the score really helps set the mood.
They should really stop showing it completely out of order tho, its confusing. I would like to see a box set where they are re-ordered.

nohagent
10-23-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't think it should be to hard for anyone to figure out the order if your have really been watching the series. Last nights episode showed enough for us to know it was after boba fett's return last season. Lets just have fun with it. So many critics. If these guys keep hating on this they may end up just hating it off the air and come on.....who really wants that?

At this point if there is truly anything to say about this season of Clone Wars is that it appears to be focused at drawing in a larger female fanbase and keep those who already are interested. By no means do I mean for this statement to sound sexist as I myself like a good story and dont always need things blowing up, even though I do think it is time for a few more of those episodes to weigh out the balance.

Yeah, just think about it. How many of you guys out there wish you had women in your lives who could appreciate SW as much as you instead of just supporting you in you hobby? I do and so I support the dynamics of the current season for all the boys out there growing up who one day may feel just like that.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-23-2010, 03:54 PM
I finally saw the end of the previous episode (for some reason, I stopped it after only 10 minutes before), which confused me when I saw this recent one (they weren't chronologically after each other, right? or have I already gotten confused with this odd "continuity" in season 3?). No one bandaged Ahsoka's arm for the flight home? "Good shot" comment from the Padawan about a straight shot with nothing blocking Padme's aim?
I've been trying to keep track myself. Here's my current list, with the most pertinent episodes here in bold:

*Cat and Mouse (2.16)
*The Hidden Enemy (16)
*The Clone Wars Movie - Padmé puts Ziro in jail
*Rising Malevolence (2)
*Shadow of Malevolence (3)
*Destroy Malevolence (4)
*Clone Cadets (3.1)
*Rookies (5)
*ARC Troopers (3.2)
*Downfall of a Droid (6)
*Duel of the Droids (7)
*Bombad Jedi (8)
*Cloak of Darkness (9)
*Lair of Grievous (10)
*Dooku Captured (11)
*The Gungan General (12)
*Jedi Crash (13)
*Defenders of Peace (14)
*Trespass (15)
*Sphere of Influence (3.4)
*Blue Shadow Virus (17)
*Mystery of a Thousand Moons (18)
*Supply Lines (3.3)
*Ambush (1)
*Storm Over Ryloth (19)
*Innocents of Ryloth (20)
*Liberty on Ryloth (21)
*Senate Spy (2.4)
*Landing at Point Rain (2.5)
*Weapons Factory (2.6)
*Legacy of Terror (2.7)
*Brain Invaders (2.8)
*Grievous Intrigue (2.9)
*The Deserter (2.10)
*Lightsaber Lost (2.11)
*The Mandalore Plot (2.12)
*Voyage of Temptation (2.13)
*Duchess of Mandalore (2.14)
*Senate Murders (2.15)
*Bounty Hunters (2.17)
*The Zillo Beast (2.18)
*The Zillo Beast Strikes Back (2.19)
*Death Trap (2.20)
*R2 Come Home (2.21)
*Lethal Trackdown (2.22) - Aurra Sing "dies"
*Corruption (3.5)
*The Academy (3.6) - shown in newsreel for "Assassin"
*Assassin (3.7) - Aurra Sing lives; Ziro still in jail
*Evil Plans (3.8) - Cad Bane tortures C-3PO for info about Senate building
*Hostage Crisis (22) - Cad Bane frees Ziro; Aurra somehow already free
*Hunt for Ziro (3.9) - the name says it all
*Holocron Heist (2.1)
*Cargo of Doom (2.2)
*Children of the Force (2.3) - I just assume Season Two's Cad Bane trilogy takes place after "Hostage Crisis" but I can't be sure

The big question here is, how did Aurra Sing escape custody? It's not clear whether she actually went to jail or was just held for questioning or what.

JediTricks
10-24-2010, 04:19 PM
I don't even remember the ending of this week's episode being jokey in nature. What was it?

The episode was ok I guess, there wasn't a lot of weight put into the reasons our heroes were taking the stands they were, and some of the more interesting stuff was toned down in favor of having Ahsoka run around with her lightsaber not using it. This ep had a better pace than many lately, but it also felt hollow to me, and why Aurra wants to kill Padme during a big speech when security is heightened makes no sense to me.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-24-2010, 04:39 PM
I don't even remember the ending of this week's episode being jokey in nature. What was it?
It was just some of the Ziro stuff. He wasn't as over-the-top as he can get, but it still seemed slightly off in tone compared to the rest of the episode to me.

Ando
10-25-2010, 10:46 AM
You know, it sounds like I missed a decent episode, but I didn't even bother to watch it.

I forgot it was on, and when I saw it on the DVR, I just deleted it sight unseen.

I think the first few episodes after the premiere burned me out more than I thought.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-28-2010, 07:23 PM
The cheap DVD store here today was sold out of Season 2 on DVD. :sad: I waited too long, apparently. It's easy to find for $33 elsewhere now, though.

Tycho
10-28-2010, 10:06 PM
Ando, the last episode was really good. Maybe one of the best this season.

Ahsoka travels with Padme to Alderaan to protect her from Aurra Sing (post-Slave-0ne crash on Florrum).

It was great to hear Princess Leia's theme when they introduced Alderaan and to see more of that planet.

jedibear
11-02-2010, 09:21 PM
I dunno...sometimes I watch this show and think I'm not in the audience they're going for with this anymore. Some spoilers ahead for those who have'nt seen it...

Other than Aurra Sing and the usual high level of art and animation, there wasn't much in this episode that worked for me...seemed like a "girl's night out" installment more than anything. And...there were a couple of moments that seemed to hit the right note with most, but really set me off a bit....

I'm all for the occasional touch or homage, but the two scenes heavy with it in this episode just went too far that way....the scene with Ashoka leaping ono Padme's bed, lightsaber lit ala Anakin in AOTC just missed the mark and took away some of the fire from that AOTC moment. My first thought was "Why doesn't this woman hire better security? Or at the very least, get locks on her bedroom doors..."

But more to the point...that bed-hopping scene in AOTC had a forbidden, brash flavor to it that effectively showed a great "character moment" for Anakin. The one in this CW episode was a diluted "Remember this?" kind of shot that felt less intense and more like a slumber party..."Padme, what do you think of Anakin? Isn't he dreamy?" Ugh...

The scene with Ashoka visiting Yoda in his apartment had the same warmed-over feeling..a different setting to hear that same old Yoda-patter might've felt a little more original...

I get that part of the appeal of a weekly show is to be familiar and comfortable, but I have to wonder as the show goes on if it's not becoming a bit like bland macaroni and cheese, oozing warm and easy... no challenge or freshness...just inoffensive and rehashed.

Or maybe I'm just too old for this particular ride....

Now I've just seen a clip featuring "Republic" comic favorite Quinlan Vos...sounding very surfer-dude and looking way relaxed....we'll see what this show's interpretation of him is...and I'm wondering if I should just skip it.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-02-2010, 10:06 PM
Friday was a rerun, correct? My DVR didn't record anything.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-03-2010, 12:24 AM
I find it interesting, jedibear, that you take the show to task for being too much like Star Wars when the previous two episodes were so widely scorned for being nothing like Star Wars. I really didn't have a problem with the homages to the films in this one - I really enjoyed the musical and visual nods. I'm not even sure that Ahsoka jumping on Padmé's bed was supposed to be a nod to AOTC. But it does make complete sense that both Ahsoka and Anakin would seek Yoda's advice for their premonitions. I think, though, that Yoda's advice to each was a bit different, perhaps because of their different status as Jedi at the time.

I just don't know, though. If you don't like it, don't watch it, I guess.

Blue2th
11-03-2010, 12:32 AM
Dude, I'm already liking Quinlan Vos. ;)

Tycho
11-03-2010, 04:10 AM
I haven't seen the Quinlan episode, but he is my favorite Jedi from the Dark Horse comics "Republic / Clone Wars" series.

I didn't imagine him as a surfer dude though (that could be Kit Fisto). I imagined Quinlan being dark and brooding, and almost phrase things that could be taken to be said in a threatening manner.

His soft spot would be for his former apprentice, Aayla Secura.

This would be a good character dynamic to see in the 'toon.

Blue2th
11-03-2010, 11:37 AM
I haven't seen the Quinlan episode, but he is my favorite Jedi from the Dark Horse comics "Republic / Clone Wars" series.

I didn't imagine him as a surfer dude though (that could be Kit Fisto). I imagined Quinlan being dark and brooding, and almost phrase things that could be taken to be said in a threatening manner.

His soft spot would be for his former apprentice, Aayla Secura.

This would be a good character dynamic to see in the 'toon.

He hasn't appeared in an episode yet, but you can catch a little sneak peak of his character: http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/

The fact that he is mentioned in ROTS, perks up one's curiosity. Even if you haven't read the comics.
I have the two issues of the comic 2-pks with him I haven't opened yet.

That would be tough to have Aayla as an apprentice and not lust after her. It would be torture. :whip:

Rocketboy
11-03-2010, 12:30 PM
All Aayla would have to do is open her mouth and as soon as that terrible accent comes spewing out you'd be over her.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-03-2010, 12:36 PM
For those apparently confused on the schedule:
*Last Friday, October 29, was a repeat.
*This Friday, November 5, is Evil Plans, with Cad Bane torturing C-3PO for information on the Senate building (pre-dating Hostage Crisis).
*Next Friday, November 12, is Hunt for Ziro, with Quinlan Vos and the search for Ziro the Hutt (after Hostage Crisis).

Tycho
11-03-2010, 02:48 PM
And for those of you who recall in the first season when JarJar lost a fly he was going to eat, in 3 weeks starts a 4 part story about JarJar trying to find the fly again. :rolleyes:

(Technically, I didn't make that up. In the Blue Shadow Virus episodes, JarJar did FIND the fly he was going to eat, which led the Naboo to a secret Separatist base. Actually these are a couple of my favorite CW episodes and I wish they'd make the Mad Doctor (a Muun Scientist) and JarJar and Padme in their Hazmat suits. Those would make cool new figures of them, though a Padme Senator figure is more badly needed, and she has two outfits, counting the one she's seen wearing in the live action movie in Palpatine's office, that could be done as more action-figure oriented than the strictly dress gown outfits).

Blue2th
11-03-2010, 08:28 PM
All Aayla would have to do is open her mouth and as soon as that terrible accent comes spewing out you'd be over her.
I dunno, I seemed to remember liking that accent Aayla had, along with all the other accents they've been giving a lot of the female Jedi in CW, like in real life I usually do like accents. It's the Ashoka voice that's my least favorite.

Maybe if Quinlan knows Aayla well as his former apprentice we might get to see her again in CW, and then Hasbro might re-issue her again, so we don't have to pay $40+ for the red card if we want her. :crazed:

JimJamBonds
11-03-2010, 10:25 PM
It's the Ashoka voice that's my least favorite.

Due to lack of an accent?

Rocketboy
11-03-2010, 11:46 PM
I dunno, I seemed to remember liking that accent Aayla had, along with all the other accents they've been giving a lot of the female Jedi in CW, like in real life I usually do like accents.It's not that I don't like an accent, I do, what I hate is a bad accent, and Aayla's was so far beyond bad, it was laughable and distracting. I think it was supposed to sound French...?

Blue2th
11-04-2010, 12:30 AM
It's not that I don't like an accent, I do, what I hate is a bad accent, and Aayla's was so far beyond bad, it was laughable and distracting. I think it was supposed to sound French...?

Yeah, it is a pretty bad simulated French American voice. It even sounds simulated. Like you say distracting. They need to work on that, or get someone else who really has a good French accent if she reappears. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QenSp0eStA&feature=related

Oh well she's still cute even in cartoon form, oui?

Rocketboy
11-05-2010, 11:39 PM
Meanwhile, in an episode of Droids...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-05-2010, 11:49 PM
Meanwhile, in an episode of Droids...
At least nobody continually fell down for no reason while walking across a room (which seemed to happen every two minutes in the Droids episodes I've seen). It's almost hard to believe that this is the first C-3PO/R2-D2-centered episode in the entire series so far.

While I'm still missing some of the action elements of this series, Evil Plans was quite a lot of fun. I was unsure on the spa at first, but the Japanese influence and seeing R2's periscope in the spa was too funny. :p The council of the heads of the five Hutt families was damn awesome; seeing more of them next week should be cool. It was interesting that Ziro wasn't the one that ordered his escape from prison, but rather the Hutt clans. Stuff like this makes the timeline-hopping a bit more bearable when it sheds new light on previously-seen events as opposed to doing it just to do it. I wonder what information he has?

But I did take a little bit of issue with R2-D2 getting a memory wipe. He survives all six films without getting one, with attention drawn to this fact in ROTS, and they came close but thankfully didn't do it in Duel of the Droids, so why here? Cad Bane could have put the droids in custody or something until after the attack on the Senate building. Then again, it seemed to only work on that specific day's memories, so nothing huge was really lost. But why was R2 so quick to join the droids? I'm sure he wanted to help 3PO, but he probably should have gotten Anakin's help instead of going there and inadvertently endangering the Senate (even if he didn't know it when he went with them).

C-3PO's line about being a translator for an entire system was pretty interesting - as far as I know, this is the first mention of his pre-Anakin-rebuild days; it might even be the first canon mention (even if it's indirect) that he was rebuilt by Anakin, not fully built from scratch (which I know annoyed a lot of people, the assumption that Anakin built him from the ground-up while other protocol droids are walking around everywhere). I'd like to see them expand on this at some point.

Given the weird timeline, this seems to take place after Season 2's Cad Bane trilogy (Holocron Heist, Cargo of Doom, and Children of the Force) due to his having the Xanadu Blood (given to him during/after Holocron Heist) and the fact that Ahsoka first met Jocasta Nu in Holocron Heist but interacted with her in Assassin, which clearly pre-dates Evil Plans. That means that this TODO droid isn't the same TODO 360 from Holocron Heist, who blows up there. At any rate, I really enjoyed his devious nature and more scrappy attitude in this episode.
EDIT: The episode guide says that Anakin rebuilt Todo 360 so the Jedi could gain information on Cad Bane, but he escaped back to Bane. Huh? Is this in some comic or something?

The official site says that the baker 2-1B droid was played by Duff Goldman, the chef from Ace of Cakes who made the R2-D2 cake for the Season 2 finale party; that's pretty funny.

Even though this wasn't very action-packed, the character moments and new information made this a hell of a lot of fun. I'm really looking forward to the introduction of Quinlan Vos (and the ensuing comic fan backlash) and the Obi-Wan/Cad Bane showdown next week.

El Chuxter
11-06-2010, 08:07 AM
The official site says that the baker 2-1B droid was played by Duff Goldman, the chef from Ace of Cakes who made the R2-D2 cake for the Season 2 finale party; that's pretty funny.

Please tell me there was a nerdy droid named AL-10 and nicknamed "Brownie."

Bel-Cam Jos
11-06-2010, 02:38 PM
It's almost hard to believe that this is the first C-3PO/R2-D2-centered episode in the entire series so far.

But I did take a little bit of issue with R2-D2 getting a memory wipe. He survives all six films without getting one, with attention drawn to this fact in ROTS,

Even though this wasn't very action-packed, the character moments and new information made this a hell of a lot of fun. I'm really looking forward to the introduction of Quinlan Vos (and the ensuing comic fan backlash) and the Obi-Wan/Cad Bane showdown next week.Hmm...

I also was shocked (no pun intended) about both R2 and Threepio getting memory wipes. The prequel droids aren't quite the same as the OT relationship, to me.

A story about a new-but-already-mentioned character like QV might be interesting.

JediTricks
11-06-2010, 04:09 PM
This wasn't a full memory wipe, just the memories of being abducted, so it's a fair pass in my book, even if it was a tad cheap.

What's not a fair pass is the idea that R2 would just give up his memory banks to save 3PO, people are going to die because of that, not to mention the secrets he holds about Anakin. My guess is that's where the "secrets revealed" tagline for this season comes in, Bane will find that info in the files taken from R2 and blackmail Anakin and/or Padme with it, and Anakin will kill him in retaliation.


Anyway, I rather enjoyed this episode, it put a lot of smiles on my face. When the server droids all waved their hands and yelled "yay!" at the jogan fruit cake getting out the door, that was awesome, and 3PO repeating his praise over and over and over at the end was cute, and R2's periscope eye is always awesome. R2 also made a new noise, which has been a very long while since we've had (since I think ROTJ). The droid spa was much fun, although it was a bit of a conceit since nothing happened in the story there (a friend of mine was expecting something bad to happen, they'd steal R2 or get his memories somehow). RA-7 yelling "murderers!" after his astromech buddy is shot by mistake. The 5 Hutt families, especially the don-hutt. R2 being less than selfless for once. There was a lot of little voice work that was better than usual, it felt like they went outside the stable for the voices and directing, and it paid off with a richer atmosphere. There was a lot to like here.

There was some that didn't work, though. Mainly, this episode felt like a stub, the resolution felt like it just happened to complete the episode in time, but it didn't feel organic. 3PO having been to the senate would know the layout too, and the sacrifice should have been his, not R2's who is usually smarter about such things. There was some other stuff I can't remember right now, but mainly this was an episode I enjoyed and wanted to see more of, it could have gone on twice as long with a little better writing and I would have dug it.

jedibear
11-06-2010, 09:48 PM
More great art and animation, good atmosphere...but, as JT mentions...




... 3PO having been to the senate would know the layout too, and the sacrifice should have been his, not R2's who is usually smarter about such things. ...


...this was the main problem for me too. R2 is always the smart one.

The hutt stuff was intriguing...looking forward to seeing more of that next week. Just hoping Quinlan Vos is rendered well in this series, with no crazy bad accent and with an attitude similar to how he was featured in the comics. We'll see...

morpheus282
11-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Am I the only one getting tired of the order these stories are being aired? I'm about ready to wait until the series runs its course, buy the DVDs, and watch the episodes in order. It may be a few years before I get to watch them, but at least I would be a little less confused on when something is supposed to happen. My wife thought Lost was confusing, she should try to keep up with the timeline of Clone Wars...

Heck, The Doctor would have a hard time with it.

JediTricks
11-09-2010, 05:16 PM
The timeline on this specific episode didn't bother me. It feels basically like Ziro the Hutt is in jail for a second time though, but it's not a big deal compared to all the other time-jumping episodes this season.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Apparently the Savage Opress episode (http://starwars.com/darthmaulsecrets/index.html) will be showing for free in some theaters, but unfortunately not in Denver. That could be cool to see. Evidently the episode will be on TV January 7.

In other upcoming-episode news, the new Insider had some info. After Hunt for Ziro, it's another Padmé/Ahsoka mission as they go to talk to Separatists; I think it might reveal the Separatist Council we've heard of and finally show some non-evil Seps. After that it's yet another damn Senate-themed episode, and it takes place while Onaconda Farr is still alive. It could turn out that Senate Murders is the episode that takes place latest in the timeline, which would be a real anticlimactic ending. :p

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Yahoo (http://tv.yahoo.com/star-wars-the-clone-wars/show/38472/videos/22903025#111010) has an incredible trailer and MTV (http://www.mtv.com/videos/misc/596049/star-wars-clone-wars-clip.jhtml) has an awesome clip both featuring Savage Opress. All I can say is, holy balls. The trailer shows Delta Squad and Obi-Wan's new look briefly.

In awesome-but-in-a-completely-different-sort-of-way news, Sy Snootles will be on this week's episode. :p

El Chuxter
11-10-2010, 09:07 PM
I can echo the "balls" part, but not the "holy." Sorry, all my misgivings about the show aside, the introduction of Darth Maul's brother seems like scraping the bottom of a barrel of some sort. Only this Savage Oppress going up against Captain Frassk's father could possibly redeem such a moment of fanwankery.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-10-2010, 09:54 PM
So, tangentially expanding the story of a character who most fans felt was sorely underused 11 years ago constitutes fanwankery? :p

El Chuxter
11-10-2010, 10:01 PM
No, but bringing him back from the dead in the form of a twin brother is fawankery of the highest (or lowest) order.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-10-2010, 11:18 PM
A. Nobody's ever said it was his twin.
B. If they're going to expand on his story - and I'm glad they are - there are only so many ways to do it, given his death in TPM. They can do prequel comics or novels, which they have (though I've only read a few). They can do over-the-top ridiculous "what-if" stories that give him robotic legs, which they have. They can make dozens of Sith Lords rise to prominence after the Chosen One restored balance to the Force and got rid of them, and have them all look like Darth Maul, which they have. Or they can feature a story on this series that involves his home planet and his family, which they are now. (I prefer this one, from what I've seen.)

I guess the whole thing comes back to the "why do you still care?" thing. You haven't liked anything Star Wars (or especially anything from Lucas) in so many years that I'm frankly not sure why you (and everyone else in the same boat) just don't stop following it completely and move on, even if your only involvement is to briefly but continually comment for several years on what you don't like.

sonofsokol
11-11-2010, 12:43 AM
Thanks for sharing those links JJL... wow.

El Chuxter
11-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Wow, JJL, that's a little harsh. Three of the movies are three of the best ever made, the fourth is good, and the other two are only mediocre in comparison. Even those two are visually stunning (floating Cody heads aside). It's tough to judge SW not in comparison to the better movies, whatever one considers those to be. I don't hate Lucas; I just think he's gotten lazy and too complacent. And it's tough to praise the same things about SW for thirty years.

The EU, however, has become a sad joke in the past few years. Honestly, this cartoon is easily the pinnacle of all the EU since about 2006.

You're free to disagree, but, really, I think a knockoff Maul is just lazy storytelling. It reeks of "we want to use Maul, but, dammit, he's dead!" Maul was preferable when he was the only remaining SW "mystery character" whose background remained unknown, aside from the tidbits Jude Watson dropped in 1999. There's a reason we don't have to know what Zuckuss eats for breakfast every morning; he works better as "cool anonymous bounty hunter who looks like a bug in robes."

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-11-2010, 11:19 AM
Wow, JJL, that's a little harsh. Three of the movies are three of the best ever made, the fourth is good, and the other two are only mediocre in comparison. Even those two are visually stunning (floating Cody heads aside). It's tough to judge SW not in comparison to the better movies, whatever one considers those to be. I don't hate Lucas; I just think he's gotten lazy and too complacent. And it's tough to praise the same things about SW for thirty years.

The EU, however, has become a sad joke in the past few years. Honestly, this cartoon is easily the pinnacle of all the EU since about 2006.

You're free to disagree, but, really, I think a knockoff Maul is just lazy storytelling. It reeks of "we want to use Maul, but, dammit, he's dead!" Maul was preferable when he was the only remaining SW "mystery character" whose background remained unknown, aside from the tidbits Jude Watson dropped in 1999. There's a reason we don't have to know what Zuckuss eats for breakfast every morning; he works better as "cool anonymous bounty hunter who looks like a bug in robes."
Maybe I was indeed a little harsh. I didn't mean to say that you didn't like Star Wars at all - just that you haven't really liked any of the SW projects that have come out of the last several years, aside from the Genndy cartoons. Your last post was probably the highest praise you've ever given AOTC or ROTS, so I don't think I'm completely wrong.

But if you're so disappointed and uninterested in everything SW being produced, then my question still stands - why do you even care enough to come here and talk about it? Do you hope it's going to make you like it one day? I mean, debate or dislike is one thing, but when people don't like a project and then continually rag on it (as you've been doing to this show for the past three and a half years, or on basically everything Hasbro produces that's not just something you like as an ironic joke) it just gets tiresome. I don't like most of the EU either, but I just ignore it and focus on what I like. I don't have to go into the novel threads and rain on their parade. It wouldn't help anybody.

JediTricks
11-11-2010, 03:44 PM
I have to admit, dredging up "Darth Maul's brother" is insanely fanwanky, the guy is the same except some coloring, even uses a double-bladed lightsaber. It's a cheap way to sell action figures, and if this season's quality so far is any judge, that's ALL it'll be. The "Rule of Two" seems to be the "Rule of Too-many" at this point, and you know they're just gonna kill him off at the end of the 30 minutes.


Speaking of jumping the shark, I just got this image from Lucasfilm and had to point out that THEY NEED TO STOP THIS!!! http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3127 Cad Bane using a lightsaber, c'mon!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-12-2010, 05:26 PM
In other news, while listening to the Forcecast they mentioned that Droogan (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droogan), the fruit vendor from Evil Plans, was based on Uncle Pecos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OE0lzViQnI) from Tom and Jerry. The inspiration will become pretty obvious when you watch the video, which I'd never seen before. The episode guide even says his species is, appropriately enough, Khramboan. :D

Rocketboy
11-12-2010, 08:40 PM
I won't spoil anything for you west coasters, but that was...unexpected.

And tonight I realized the growing aesthetic problem with the show - everything keeps looking better and better except for any biological character. Some of the settings and landscapes are starting to approach photo realism (or at least on par with the Prequel films), yet the character models are still so wooden with an pre-vis animatic quality.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-13-2010, 02:37 AM
Damn, that was one hell of an enjoyable episode - probably one of my favorites of the series. From Sy Snootles' Willie Scott number to the Gamorrean Guards to Mama the Hutt to everything Ziro said to Quinlan Vos actually being in line with how he is in the comics to Cad Bane's cool but not excessive fight, this was just 100% pure awesome.

Spoilers apply from here on out.

I loved the entire characterization of Sy and her interactions with Ziro. Their initial back-and-forth was probably the funniest moment in the entire series. I also liked how Nal Hutta's swampy atmosphere was kind of reminiscent of Louisiana, tying into Ziro's accent. The fact that he had both a mother and father might go against the fact that Hutts are hermaphrodites, but I guess if Sy and Ziro could be in love, then anything's possible. :p

Cad's use of a lightsaber was barely an entire second long; much like Anakin's use of two sabers in AOTC, it was perhaps blown out of proportion in the marketing. It made sense in the story and didn't go over the top, so hopefully anyone who was worried didn't find it too offensive.

Really the only comics I bought were the Clone Wars anthologies, mostly from the Republic series, so Quinlan Vos has been a part of the EU that I genuinely enjoy. I was really thankful to see that they stuck pretty close to his comics version - when he touched the cup and had a flash of Ziro, that was too perfect. Him and Obi-Wan bouncing off each other was fantastic.

Ziro's death was pretty sad, actually. I had seen a Ziro-colored lump in the promo video where Obi-Wan and Vos start to fight Cad Bane, but wasn't sure if it was a decoy or something. I always found him at least somewhat interesting before, but he was hilarious tonight, and I'm sorry to see him go. I was worried they'd kill Cad Bane too but luckily that wasn't the case.


And tonight I realized the growing aesthetic problem with the show - everything keeps looking better and better except for any biological character. Some of the settings and landscapes are starting to approach photo realism (or at least on par with the Prequel films), yet the character models are still so wooden with an pre-vis animatic quality.
I disagree here. If you look closely, especially on the HD broadcast or on the episode guide, you can see that the backgrounds and landscapes are very much still in the painterly style that they've been in from the beginning. They're more detailed and dense, but I think that's just them getting better with their animation style, not consciously moving towards photorealism. And the characters do periodically get updates - watch an early Season One episode to see how far they've come.

On that note, Ahsoka gets her new look next week, so there ya go.

Rocketboy
11-13-2010, 09:19 AM
I was hoping they'd kill Cad Bane too but unfortunately that wasn't the case.I fixed your typos for you.
:D


I disagree here. If you look closely, especially on the HD broadcast or on the episode guide, you can see that the backgrounds and landscapes are very much still in the painterly style that they've been in from the beginning. They're more detailed and dense, but I think that's just them getting better with their animation style, not consciously moving towards photorealism.That may be more true when it comes to planets like Nal Hutta, but the more detail they give these environments, the realer they start looking.
And if you look at anything industrial, like Coruscant, it looks like something out of the PT, IMO.

Darth Metalmute
11-13-2010, 01:08 PM
I was really worried when they first brought out Quinlan Vos. His first couple of scenes, all I kept thinking was "Hippie Jedi". He grew out of that quickly and was an enjoyable addition.

As for the Bane lightsaber duel, I'm almost positive the promo for that back in the season three preview was actually longer than the scene in last nights episode.

As enjoyable as last nights episode was, and how much it was desperately needed to "save" Season 3, I keep on coming up with the same question...
Remember when Obi-Wan used to be a decent Jedi?
First, he questions Vos' hunting skill even though he has a knack for it,
then he lets Bane get the jump on him. How is he a Jedi council member?

JimJamBonds
11-13-2010, 01:08 PM
All in all this episode gets a "meh" from me. Not a huge fan of Ziro although I did notice that "Godfather The Hutt" does sit on the Hutt 'ruling body' thingy.
Speaking of jumping the shark, I just got this image from Lucasfilm and had to point out that THEY NEED TO STOP THIS!!! http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3127 Cad Bane using a lightsaber, c'mon!

It not that he just used a saber but he 'knew' how to use it. Come on!

Maerj2000
11-13-2010, 05:08 PM
***Spoilers***



Ziro and Sy Snootles in love?

Sy Snootles kills Ziro the Hutt?

A big musical number?

Perhaps the title of this episode should have been "Anything Goes?"

I was shocked that they killed Ziro and especially that Sy did it. Nice fight at the end, fun episode.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-14-2010, 10:03 AM
I was surprised that a couple blaster shots could kill a Hutt. I also picked up on the "Anything Goes" sound, and the step-out-of-room-for-a-minute-kids dancing of the girls (with Hutt hats on their heads). Didn't like Vos' "that's your opinion, man" line but the rest of his characterization was on. Bane's fight with the Jedi was cool, although the bouncing leaps got old after a time.

Tycho
11-16-2010, 08:15 PM
Rebelscum posted this link about Ahsoka's wardrobe change. (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/11/clone-wars-ahsoka-new-look/?ref=nf)

Personally, I like it in fantasies, warrior women dress like go-go dancers! :love:

I appreciate great looking ladies and if you walk into any comic store, you see tons of designs for fantasy girls dating back to Supergirl's mini-skirt. I don't think Bat Girl ever wore a bikini - but there's a way to solicit new attention being paid to the character.

Now, Ahsoka was supposed to be an 11 year old child, however. Young girls can dress in skimpy clothes. They do here in California all the time.

The majority of us who are normal, don't look at them that way and any teenage fantasies (like that new song that's on the air by some girl artist) likely involves teens at least old enough to have their drivers' license. (Age 16 is the age for legal consent in a small portion of the states, including Michigan.)

Now Ahsoka might dress that way because the artist who designed her has a sociopathic problem, especially given that she was supposed to be 11 years old - but now in the Clone Wars timeline, she might be 12 or 13. (Thirteen is the age for apprenticeship amongst Jedi Padawans.) However, maybe she dresses that way because:

1) it is comfortable, and she is athletic and does not enjoy being bound by heavy robes
2) it is customary for Togrutu people, especially females.

For Jedi, the big robes are for disguise. When Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan walk into the Trade Federation ship at the beginning of TPM, if we didn't already know from seeing glimpses of their faces and hands, we wouldn't know if they were human or otherwise.

Non-Jedi also wore big robes, especially people trying to hide their identity, as Jedi might need to.

I believe Aayla Secura dresses the way she does because people expect Twi'lek girls hopping around the galaxy to be slave girls, put to use for pleasure. Indeed Aayla makes the perfect undercover Jedi because no one suspects her.

Ahsoka though? She has not even hit maturity. I think it was for fanwank reasons that she is dressed that way, though she has nothing to "fill her outfit out" at this age. (Obviously she's not human, but Shaak-Ti demonstrates that an older female Togrutu "fills out.")

Like I said, I enjoy fanwank material "as art," ;) however, The Clone Wars only lasted 3 years and that's not enough time for Ahsoka to live to mature that much.

Whether she will die or leave the Jedi Order is for another discussion.

sonofsokol
11-17-2010, 12:24 AM
I'm not quite sure what to think of her change in clothing... however, I did show the picture of Ahsoka's new outfit to my wife and she thought it looked "trashier" and "more like a streetwalker" than her current outfit. Interesting.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-17-2010, 12:45 AM
The official site (http://starwars.com/theclonewars/newcharacterlooks/index.html) has images of the new looks for Ahsoka as well as for Anakin and Obi-Wan. Anakin's hair is longer, and he and Obi-Wan have lost most of the clone armor (though Obi-Wan still has his wrist guards, now with the Open Circle logo). I'm not sure Ahsoka needed the holes in her pantlegs, but it's at least good to see them acknowledging the passing of time.

And Tycho, I think Ahsoka is supposed to be 14 at the start of the series. She'd be 17 at the most by the end of the war, depending on when this all takes place. So she's probably 15 or 16 by now, I'd say, even though they keep skipping around in the timeline.

Rocketboy
11-17-2010, 09:44 AM
I am so glad they finally ditched that dumb*ss clone armor.
It was cool when Obi-Wan used it in the Gendy series for 2 minutes.

Ahsoka still looks like a tramp, but a little less so now.
They could do without the cleavage hole and leg holes and improve the look tremendously.


Or they could just kill her and put her out of my misery.

JimJamBonds
11-17-2010, 02:49 PM
I am so glad they finally ditched that dumb*ss clone armor.
It was cool when Obi-Wan used it in the Gendy series for 2 minutes.

Yup, well said RB.

I quickly glanced at the text of the article and I found this little nugget which I think is a much bigger deal then what she is wearing.


...She’s also getting a weapons boost, boasting two green lightsabers rather than one.Whaaa!?!?!?!?! Two sabers!?!?!?! WTF!!!!!!!!

DarkJedi5
11-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Whaaa!?!?!?!?! Two sabers!?!?!?! WTF!!!!!!!!

Don't worry, the second one is only a minisaber.

JimJamBonds
11-18-2010, 06:28 AM
Don't worry, the second one is only a minisaber.

Ohh no big deal then, sorry for getting excited everybody.:p

El Chuxter
11-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Wow, Ahsoka now looks more like a bimbo at the Bunny Ranch than a runaway pre-teen who's pimped out by a guy in a Lincoln Continental.

Sessy Tiin
11-18-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't know what the Bunny Ranch is but if they have more girls that look like Ashoka, I want to go there. I think Ahsoka is cute.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-19-2010, 11:38 PM
Heroes on Both Sides was . . . just alright. I liked finally seeing some non-evil civilian Separatists, but nothing really seemed to happen in this episode. All the bank regulation talk was probably done in response to the financial crisis of the last few years (as this episode was probably written while this was going on). I at least liked seeing some new creatures, like the Ishi Tib, Koorivar, and Gossam. And I thought with the new models for Anakin and Ahsoka showing up, they'd finally get back to a linear timeline . . . but then Onaconda Farr showed up, so we're before Senate Murders. The episode guide (which went up after I wrote the first part of this post) says that the next episode takes place before Senate Murders, then (obviously) Senate Murders takes place, then it's mostly linear after that. Still, that's half a damn season out of order.

I wonder if Lux Bonteri or Ahsoka's contact with the non-evil side of the Separatists could possibly tie into her fate?

JediTricks
11-20-2010, 05:25 AM
If you love talking, talking, and more talking while pontificating about banking deregulation and fear-mongering corrupting the senate, you'll still be bored to tears by... Heroes on Both Sides, the next episode of The Clone Snores.

HOLY CRAP did that episode suck! I hate Ahsoka's new bimbo outfit, but I hate her half-lidded expression even more. This episode had 3 scenes in the senate and another in the ENEMY SENATE!!! (Sorry, "parliament".) The voice directing and casting was sub-par, so many characters sounded like Bail Organa, and 1 woman sounded exactly like Padme with a slightly foreign accent. Anakin was a massive jerk for his cameo, Padme was preachy and annoying, Padme's Separatist friends were preaching and annoying and pitiful at arguing their opposing point of view, Ahsoka was a miserable Jedi not doing anything remotely wise or diplomatic, none of the new characters were fleshed out. And what's the point of showing a character wearing 2 lightsabers only to NEVER USE THEM?!? The only action in this episode was of some big scary droids shooting unarmed engineers and bombs blowing up, it was totally lame just watching them kill and kill and kill.

This episode was junk, and the sad part is that it wasn't even the worst junk of the season, it was cardboardy and rushed through its preachy plot, but at least it was direct unlike the Mandalorian poisoned drinks episode.


Oh, and for all you lovers of the timeline-jumping, I expect we'll suffer even more because the break between AOTC and ROTS was only around 3 years, the show has run 3 years now, so it can't keep going linear or it'll run right through ROTS.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-20-2010, 10:05 AM
Oh, and for all you lovers of the timeline-jumping, I expect we'll suffer even more because the break between AOTC and ROTS was only around 3 years, the show has run 3 years now, so it can't keep going linear or it'll run right through ROTS.The Korean War lasted 3 years, but M*A*S*H lasted 11 seasons. The series 24 took a whole season to cover one day. So, your reasoning isn't necessarily true.

morpheus282
11-20-2010, 10:23 AM
The Korean War lasted 3 years, but M*A*S*H lasted 11 seasons. The series 24 took a whole season to cover one day. So, your reasoning isn't necessarily true.

True enough. When has fiction ever been governed by the laws of reality, much less been required to maintain a strict sense of time.

I just wish they'd start writing the @#$%^ episodes in order!!! I really had an easier time keeping up with the time shift on Lost.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Yeah, there was quite a bit of talk. I didn't empathize with the "enemy" Sepratists, as I believe the episode was attempting to create. I, too, thought the shoot-'em-all part with the Transformers, er, demolition droids was too Dirty Harry-esque. Why does a Jedi Padawan have two lightsabers?

I give this the dreaded "eh" ranking.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-20-2010, 11:16 AM
I just wish they'd start writing the @#$%^ episodes in order!!! I really had an easier time keeping up with the time shift on Lost.
I figure that is the reasoning for the "Secrets Revealed" theme. They are going back and filling in gaps. However, since I barely remember the events of so many episodes over the first two seasons, continuity and chronology are kind of out the window for me. So, I just like watching it because I get to see a short Star Wars adventure each week. Maybe once the series is done I can go back and watch them in the correct timeline order.

Snowtrooper
11-20-2010, 11:46 AM
I found this episode to only be OK as well. While I kinda liked the whole visiting the enemy parliament bit, the episode was long on words, much like many others this season. If this is supposed to be a kids show, don't they know that all these "politics" episodes are going to bore them? Don't get me wrong. I don't want episodes that are nothing but mindless violence, but I think they could do a better job of mixing the two together.

JimJamBonds
11-20-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm not sure if these points were covered above if they were sorry!

1) Why was the Trade Federation in the Galatic Senate? Since their droids are fighting the Republic's clones wouldn't they have left and joined the Sep's Senate?

1.1) Why were those other humps Banking Clan and the Techno Union in the GS? Again shouldn't they be in the SS?

2) Ok, so Padme and Ashoka go visit Padme's now Separatist senator friend. And Ashoka is cruising around with her lightsaber's out and about? The senator's son correctly id'd her as a Jedi, wouldn't she want to hide that fact???

JediTricks
11-20-2010, 03:39 PM
The Korean War lasted 3 years, but M*A*S*H lasted 11 seasons. The series 24 took a whole season to cover one day. So, your reasoning isn't necessarily true.The difference is that MASH was a sitcom, and well-written. MASH didn't have to bridge 2 other stories, didn't have to adhere strictly to a canon.



Yeah, there was quite a bit of talk. I didn't empathize with the "enemy" Sepratists, as I believe the episode was attempting to create.That was a big failure trying to get the audience to understand the enemy civilian governments that back Dooku, they should have done a better job delivering those opinions, spent more time with them, spread the story over 3 episodes while giving little adventures in between fleshing out our heroes and more importantly their enemies. But this show has lost the broader-scaled vision it was promising before, now everything is in these tight little 22-minute bundles of boredom.



I'm not sure if these points were covered above if they were sorry!

1) Why was the Trade Federation in the Galatic Senate? Since their droids are fighting the Republic's clones wouldn't they have left and joined the Sep's Senate?They covered that a few episodes back having Lott Dod I believe explaining to the senate that the Trade Fed aren't Nute Gunray, he's gone rogue, then he evilly rubbed his hands together and made a deal for the Seps that nobody but a blind, deaf, mute could miss.


1.1) Why were those other humps Banking Clan and the Techno Union in the GS? Again shouldn't they be in the SS? This episode suggested that the corporations are a pox on the Galactic Senate, which is why they're not allowed in the Confederate Parliamentary body. And since they did it through words rather than deeds, it was incredibly easy to miss, what with it being buried among a mountain of other big speeches nobody cared about.


2) Ok, so Padme and Ashoka go visit Padme's now Separatist senator friend. And Ashoka is cruising around with her lightsaber's out and about? The senator's son correctly id'd her as a Jedi, wouldn't she want to hide that fact???Not 1 thing Ahsoka did on that trip made a lick of sense.

El Chuxter
11-20-2010, 03:45 PM
The difference is that MASH was a sitcom, and well-written. MASH didn't have to bridge 2 other stories, didn't have to adhere strictly to a canon.

And work around an existing cartoon series, several novels, a few years worth of comic books, and a handful of video games. :)

Mad Slanted Powers
11-20-2010, 06:01 PM
The difference is that MASH was a sitcom, and well-written. MASH didn't have to bridge 2 other stories, didn't have to adhere strictly to a canon.That is a different issue. I was just addressing the idea that 3 seasons doesn't necessarily mean three years.

Rocketboy
11-20-2010, 07:52 PM
That is a different issue. I was just addressing the idea that 3 seasons doesn't necessarily mean three years.Exactly, although Lucasfilm did try to play it out in real time from 2002-2005 in the books and comics...which they seem to be intent on erasing with the show.

And I agree with everyone's assessment - the episode did kinda suck.
But didn't it look absolutely incredible? The visuals on this show seem to get better and better every week.

JediTricks
11-21-2010, 03:27 PM
That is a different issue. I was just addressing the idea that 3 seasons doesn't necessarily mean three years.I know, and I'm saying it's apples & oranges.



And I agree with everyone's assessment - the episode did kinda suck.
But didn't it look absolutely incredible? The visuals on this show seem to get better and better every week.The crappier the episode, the less I notice the visuals. Episode 3 was like a radio drama to me. :D

Tycho
11-21-2010, 05:47 PM
I am unsure how the other capitalist conglomerates got representation in the Senate, however the e-novel Darth Maul: Sabateur outlines the Trade Federation's ascendancy.

Using monopolistic strategies, coupled with Darth Maul sabotaging competitors (and killing them off behind the scenes) the Trade Federation became the largest employers of planetary systems.

They ran their own candidates for local government and voted in blocks for system representatives.

If you think about it, Palpatine is a SECTOR Senator in TPM. He does come from Naboo, and Naboo is a member of their Mid-Rim sector, but the Senate rotunda is only so large. What happens when new planets are discovered or petitition to join the Republic? Planets get REPRESENTATIVES (like JarJar Binks is the Representative for Naboo). One amongst them gets elected as the Sector Senator (like Palpatine, and later Amidala). Obviously, they were both once Naboo's Representative before becoming Senator. Having the Representatives there provides for their to be an opposing view if not all the planets in a Sector endorse the same policy.

In any event, the Trade Federation rose to ascendancy, controlling Sectors like that - with help from the Sith in the shadows.

I assume that the Corporate Alliance and Techno Union, amongst others, rose in prominence the same way. Palpatine put all his "pieces" in place before fully implementing his powerplay.

Remember, Palpatine was ELECTED the Emperor. :D

He's such a clever guy!

Mad Slanted Powers
11-21-2010, 06:27 PM
Remember, Palpatine was ELECTED the Emperor. :DActually, he was elected Supreme Chancellor. He became Emperor when he declared the new Galactic Empire.

Tycho
11-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Actually, he was elected Supreme Chancellor. He became Emperor when he declared the new Galactic Empire.

Maybe you're right. But in open session of the Senate, he declares, "that is why the Republic will be re-organized into the First Galactic Empire! - to ensure a more safe and secure society."

I assume Palpatine had already taken care of ALL the Senators who would object, behind the scenes.

So I guess there wasn't exactly an election, but there was no objection either. Senators like Bail Organa, Padme Amidala, and Mon Mothma, and presumably Fang Zar could have introduced a bill in opposition.

Would they have been gun downed by Senate Commandos or Clone Troopers? Maybe that would be unlikely in open view of the entire Senate.

Did they personally fear for their lives? There's no evidence of that yet - Amidala was the target of many assasination attempts, but she never connected them to Palpatine (there was always Nute Gunray and Count Dooku to suspect). But Palpatine was from her homeworld - an ally in her experience. And Padme's attitude towards Palpatine likely tempered Bail Organa's early attitude towards him, as well as Mon Mothma's. Fang Zar (Corellia) would soon be killed though (and Padme was already dead - kind of sort of - at Anakin's hands).

jedibear
11-21-2010, 08:41 PM
Well...here I am being the lone voice in the wilderness on this episode...

I liked it..a lot. That surprised me, considering the preview made it look like "Another road trip with Ashoka and Padme"...and just another talk-fest.

But instead, the whole vibe of it for me felt like a Jude Watson "young Readers" book (and that's a compliment...I really like those books!). Plus, it looked great...lots of interesting lighting and shadows and the environments, from the oft-seen senate to the sweeping vistas of Praxis just popped with detail and creativity. There was a good balance of some action with the talk for a change.

CN ran the CW movie on Saturday night..saw part of it while channel-surfing and yes, looking at that compared to the new episodes and it's clear to see how much the animation on this show has really improved.

The regular characters actually seemed more like "themselves" for a change...especially Padme during her appearance in the Senate and with her interactions with her Separatist friend. Anakin also had a bit of an edge for a change...I liked it. I also liked how Dooku was presented at the Sep Parliament...a mirror of Palpatine, all slick and manipulative, letting the people think they were in control of what's happening...very cool.

Again, all of the different Senators and Separatists made me remember many of the different books and comics...it was just a cool nod to that part of the EU that was good to see.

The much-hyped appearance of Ashoka and Anakin's new looks were...okay. Really like Anakin's slide to a more traditional Jedi look, while Ashoka....well, I guess that last mall planet she visited (the Mandalore Mall, wasn't it?) had a "Hot Topic"-type store for her to pick up some new slag-wear...doesn't make me like the character any more or less...but I will grant she was alright in this one.

Loved the infiltrator droids...they were almost a little too "transformer-esque", but they combined enough attributes of droids and weapons that we've seen in SW before and were really effective. In fact, the power plant massacre was pretty intense for a "kid's show"...

It's been interesting to read the reactions to this one in here...it didn't work too well for many, but for me...it's the first episode this season since "Arc Troopers" (the Kamino Invasion one) that I'd want to watch again and consider one of the best...just proof that the really is something in this show for everyone...but not everything works for everyone...the nature of episodic TV, I guess...

So the show is on a break now...but at least it ended this group of episodes with a good one...

JediTricks
12-02-2010, 05:34 PM
Uh oh, just got the press release from LFL about tomorrow's episode and the only thing they say involves 3 senators rallying against a senate appropriations bill. Are they TRYING to get people to stop watching? Here's everything they sent:
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3156

I'm really trying to hang in there with them on this, but it's so difficult.

Tycho
12-02-2010, 05:49 PM
Well, I love politics.

But wouldn't an ACTED-OUT live-action show starring dramatic actors be better for this kind of thing?

Most of the Star Trek shows were like that, and they saved up their budget money for all-out-war episodes, especially on Deep Space Nine (seasons 4-7).

But this is a Star Wars ANIMATED show.

Now, me - pretending to be - them:


We want to do dramatic shows, as we may not ever get the chance again. SW is NOT just for kids - even in cartoon form. We're SW fans and we're NOT kids any more.

We couldn't do the dramatic shows in the first couple of seasons, as people would STOP watching, and wouldn't know how far we've come along, effects-wise.

So now we put in the dramatic shows we always wanted to do - all out of order.

Oh, and we CAN sell the DVDs because there's demand for it now.

However, we can sell the shows AGAIN when we put them into box sets, all in order.

We'll call it STAR WARS: THE NEW ORDER (get it???? Hahaha. Palpatine thought of that one.)

Anyway, we here at Lucasfilm are just like Hasbro - we've sold you the trilogy over and over again, and they've sold you Darth Vader :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

We think we're really clever.

That's all.

JediTricks
12-02-2010, 06:03 PM
This isn't politics, there's no nuance, no sense of background, no discussion. It's just "good guys vote for the thing that is being preached by the writers, and obviously-evil villains vote against it." It's lazily written and obnoxious - I agree with much of Lucas' political leanings but every time this show starts in with his ham-fisted ideologies, it drives me away from his opinions. Politics makes for bad entertainment in general, and Clone Wars takes that to new depths.

It's funny, there once was someone who wrote "only a Sith deals in such absolutes", yet there's zero shades of gray in the politics of this show most of the time, and the very rare occurrences when they try to show any middle ground they just end up having the people siding against Padme being suckered by the villain.

Ando
12-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Uh oh, just got the press release from LFL about tomorrow's episode and the only thing they say involves 3 senators rallying against a senate appropriations bill. Are they TRYING to get people to stop watching?

Sounds like another snoozer. I am glad that I stopped watching weeks ago. If they are trying to get people to stop watching, then Mission ACCOMPLISHED, Filoni.

jedibear
12-03-2010, 10:08 PM
Well, again...I'm not put off too much by these "Senate" themed episodes...although it certainly has been along stretch of them this season. Yeah, I'll agree the "messages" are a little heavy-handed, but that is politics, isn't it?

One thing I am confused about with this episode is... wasn't Onaconda Farr (the rodian senator) killed in last season's "Senate Murders" episode?

What's going on here?

Bel-Cam Jos
12-03-2010, 10:10 PM
One thing I am confused about with this episode is... wasn't Onaconda Farr (the rodian senator) killed in last season's "Senate Murders" episode?

What's going on here?That could just be justified by their out-of-order production.

morpheus282
12-03-2010, 10:25 PM
I would comment on tonight's episode, but I dozed off five minutes in. According to my daughter, I didn't miss much.


One thing I am confused about with this episode is... wasn't Onaconda Farr (the rodian senator) killed in last season's "Senate Murders" episode?

What's going on here?

The dark side of the force has turned the timeline into a plate full of lo mein. Either that or they just keep showing stories out of order.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-03-2010, 10:27 PM
That could just be justified by their out-of-order production.
And it's not just out-of-order production. That sort of thing has been going on since the beginning, with episodes featuring fewer character models or locations generally being produced first. This is to do with out-of-order conception of these ideas. It seems like they've been looking at older episodes and expanding the stories, either for good or for ill. But the 2011 episodes should be in a more linear fashion, thankfully.

So now, even with Padmé's speech, the bill passes and the production of new clones is ramped up, presumably with the new helmets as well.

As for this one, the political episodes are definitely too many in number this season, but this one was pretty good compared to the others. There were some hokey moments, like the senators all limping away from the conversation at the same time, as if all these prominent politicians were getting beat up and nobody was really doing anything about it. I wish they had given more weight to Mena Bonteri's death; I understand showing it would have given up Dooku's assistance in the plot, but something more could have worked better than just the quick mentions. I thought it was strange to use Teckla, who served Anakin and Padmé's dinner in AOTC, though they payoff was a good one.

That said, it had a better sense of danger and action than really any of the other political ones, which might not be saying a whole lot, but still. I liked seeing the various senators' positions, but I think Senator Christo might be too busy putting up giant fabric art installations to be too effective a politician. :p

Oh, and I'm really not sure I like the "9-1-1" appearing on the cop cars. That, coupled with the coffee-drinking droid, pushed it too far into the real world for me. Well, not just the real world, but our real world - why would the Coruscant police have the same phone number? Or any phone number?

Tycho
12-04-2010, 01:12 AM
The new out-of-order-in-the-timeline has given me an idea.

The Battle Droids are machines, right?

General Grievous sends a Battle Droid back in time to before Obi-Wan Kenobi was born to kill him before he can be chosen to be trained as a Jedi.

Dr. Evezan informs Anakin that if he steals Bail Organa's airspeeder and drives it past 88 mph, he can go back in time as well, and prevent this from happening.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-04-2010, 10:28 AM
I would comment on tonight's episode, but I dozed off five minutes in. According to my daughter, I didn't miss much.Now, I missed the first 2-3 minutes and found the remainder to be surprisingly decent (especially after reading here that this would be another "talky" episode). It's nowhere near the best in the series, but there was enough action (threats against various senators) at times to offset the verbose parts. The end with Palpatine revealed nothing new but it did add a weird mood to the show. Lamest part? "My speech... the speech..." Can't wait for the Tekla [sp?] "action" figure! :p

[Edit] How to explain about the gogo dancer Twi'Lek to the young viewers? Check out the SW Art: Visions book, too. To borrow an Indiana Jones line: now Lucas seems to be "gettin' nasty" in his older age. :eek:

JimJamBonds
12-04-2010, 12:43 PM
[Edit] How to explain about the gogo dancer Twi'Lek to the young viewers? Check out the SW Art: Visions book, too. To borrow an Indiana Jones line: now Lucas seems to be "gettin' nasty" in his older age. :eek:
I forgot about that!!!! WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I missed the first couple of minutes as well, I thought it was an ok episode. Not great, but not bad either.

Maerj2000
12-04-2010, 09:28 PM
I liked the swoop bike chase. I'd like to see more episodes exploring the galaxy, getting to know other characters and just gettin' real Star Warsy. I don't need Jedi & Clones vs Droids or Senate politics every week.


Was that Twi'lek dancer...naked?

Bel-Cam Jos
12-05-2010, 09:50 AM
Was that Twi'lek dancer...naked?No, just gyrating in silouette in the background a bit too much than necessary for the scene, IMHO. But there was a previous episode with a similar scene, IIRC. :slipperyslope:

Blue2th
12-05-2010, 12:18 PM
The new out-of-order-in-the-timeline has given me an idea.

The Battle Droids are machines, right?

General Grievous sends a Battle Droid back in time to before Obi-Wan Kenobi was born to kill him before he can be chosen to be trained as a Jedi.


He's going to have to put some organic tissue over that polymetalalloy endoskeleton first.

I


Was that Twi'lek dancer...naked?

Damn I hate the three day delay till I get to watch.

JimJamBonds
12-05-2010, 02:19 PM
No, just gyrating in silouette in the background a bit too much than necessary for the scene, IMHO. But there was a previous episode with a similar scene, IIRC. :slipperyslope:

I thought she was from the waist up. The last time we see her she is turning around and her arm is across the middle of her chest, thus covering up her Twilikness.:D

El Chuxter
12-05-2010, 02:43 PM
You wouldn't want to see a naked Twi'lek. They're not human, and don't have the same organs we have. Twi'lek boobs are communication organs, and, when bare, look like Ed Asner.

You're welcome.

Darth Metalmute
12-05-2010, 03:51 PM
What a waste of a half-an-hour. They really are trying to kill the series. These producers must really think we are dim witted with their story telling. First, senators are being threatened to not vote for the measure. Gee, I wonder who is behind that? But yet the senators are clueless. Second, with the senators being threatened, they don't increase security? They allow them to just roam around without guards? Third, these police droids are the stupidest things imagined. Fourth, how in the world did a 25% interest rate make it to the voting floor anyway? That shouldn't have made it past the legislation phase. Should the banking clan even have a vote in the senate?

Clone Wars should be a show about clones and Jedi fighting battles, not background characters discussing legislation. Season 3 should be renamed Senate Wars and relocated to the local access channels with the city council meetings. This season reminds me more of the Cosmic Wars: The Gathering Shadow that Seasons 1 or 2.

Blue2th
12-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Yeah, they need to get a clue by watching the old Genndy Clone Wars cartoon. Sometimes there'd be no talking yet there was plenty of knowing just what the heck the meaning was.

We don't have time to discuss the Clone Wars in a committee every single week.

morpheus282
12-05-2010, 09:34 PM
I would comment on tonight's episode, but I dozed off five minutes in. According to my daughter, I didn't miss much.

Having watched it again, I realized I did not in fact miss any of it. I must have dozed during commercials and thought I missed the good parts.

SmokedPorter
12-06-2010, 12:25 PM
Hi all, I haven't been on this site in ages. So forgive me if this has already been answered.

I really don't like the whole out-of-chronology Secrets Revealed thing in season 3. I was thinking about sitting down & typing out an order in which the events of all 3 seasons so far actually make some sense. Has this already been done?

It'd be fun for me & the kiddo over the next few weeks to watch all the events in chronological order. The official Star Wars site or the Wookiepedia need to make this available.

The whole thing would kick off with Cat & Mouse, Hidden Enemy, the movie, and go all the way up to Senate Murders, which the official site says is the furthest along the timeline so far.

nohagent
12-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Im still trying to decide, Season Two DVD or Blu-ray. I have season 1 dvd. hate having so many formats. Not knowing how things are going I really dont want to buy anything. Besides my Blu-ray player is my PS3

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-06-2010, 05:44 PM
SmokedPorter, there's no official chronology yet. But I've been trying to keep up, and here's what I've got so far, with a few pertinent notes where they count:

*Cat and Mouse (2.16)
- Anakin and Admiral Yularen meet for the first time
- Christophsis air assault
*The Hidden Enemy (16)
- Christophsis ground assault begins
- Ventress leaves to kidnap Rotta
*The Clone Wars Movie
- Ahsoka becomes Anakin’s Padawan
- Ziro the Hutt arrested
*Rising Malevolence (2)
*Shadow of Malevolence (3)
*Destroy Malevolence (4)
*Clone Cadets (3.1)
- Introduces Domino Squad in training
*Rookies (5)
- Domino Squad at Rishi Outpost
- Grievous plans attack on Kamino
*ARC Troopers (3.2)
*Downfall of a Droid (6)
*Duel of the Droids (7)
*Bombad Jedi (8)
*Cloak of Darkness (9)
*Lair of Grievous (10)
*Dooku Captured (11)
*The Gungan General (12)
*Jedi Crash (13)
*Defenders of Peace (14)
*Trespass (15)
- Pantoran Chairman Cho dies
*Sphere of Influence (3.4)
- Baron Papanoida referred to as “recently elected chairman of Pantora”
*Blue Shadow Virus (17)
*Mystery of a Thousand Moons (18)
- Jaybo mentions taking nine months to reprogram droids
*Supply Lines (3.3)
- Siege on Ryloth begins
- King Katuunko agrees to meet with Yoda
*Ambush (1)
- King Katuunko meets with Yoda about Toydaria’s neutrality
*Storm Over Ryloth (19)
*Innocents of Ryloth (20)
*Liberty on Ryloth (21)
*Holocron Heist (2.1)
- Ahsoka meets Jocasta Nu
- Todo 360 destroyed
*Cargo of Doom (2.2)
*Children of the Force (2.3)
*Senate Spy (2.4)
- Padmé discovers plans for Geonosis droid factory
*Landing at Point Rain (2.5)
*Weapons Factory (2.6)
*Legacy of Terror (2.7)
*Brain Invaders (2.8)
*Grievous Intrigue (2.9)
*The Deserter (2.10)
*Lightsaber Lost (2.11)
- Ahsoka already knows Jocasta Nu
*The Mandalore Plot (2.12)
*Voyage of Temptation (2.13)
*Duchess of Mandalore (2.14)
*Bounty Hunters (2.17)
*The Zillo Beast (2.18)
*The Zillo Beast Strikes Back (2.19)
*Death Trap (2.20)
*R2 Come Home (2.21)
*Lethal Trackdown (2.22)
- Aurra Sing “dies”
*Corruption (3.5)
*The Academy (3.6)
- Refers to Obi-Wan’s recent visit
*Assassin (3.7)
- Refers to Aurra Sing’s apparent death
- Shows images from Corruption and The Academy in newsreel
- Mentions Anakin and Ahsoka having adventures since then
- Ziro the Hutt still in prison
*Evil Plans (3.8)
- Cad Bane plans Senate attack
- Todo 360 already rebuilt
*Hostage Crisis (22)
- Ziro the Hutt broken out of prison
*Hunt for Ziro (3.9)
- Ziro killed
*Heroes on Both Sides (3.10)
- Anakin and Ahsoka’s new looks debut
- Onaconda Farr alive
- Mena Bonteri’s husband died setting up a base one year ago
*Pursuit of Peace (3.11)
- Mena Bonteri killed since last episode
- Onaconda Farr alive
- Padmé rallies support against military spending bill
*Senate Murders (2.15)
- Onaconda Farr killed
- Bill passes to increase troop production and military spending
- Phase II helmet seen in hologram

SmokedPorter
12-06-2010, 08:30 PM
Wow nice.

In my order, I went in order of Production Number except when it obviously didn't make sense.

It seems you did the same but in Aired Order. Thanks a ton.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-08-2010, 11:53 PM
Wow nice.

In my order, I went in order of Production Number except when it obviously didn't make sense.

It seems you did the same but in Aired Order. Thanks a ton.
Sure thing. I think I'm going to watch the episodes in chronological order soon, so it should be interesting.

Has anyone been reading up on the Savage Opress screenings around the country? There are none in my neck of the woods, but the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive from what I've seen. Filoni has said no more Senate scenes for the remainder of the season, thankfully, but it sounds like there's big payoff coming for the Senate storyline (I assume it's something to do with the increase in clones). I'm pretty damn excited.

DarkJedi5
12-09-2010, 01:53 AM
Question about all this voting to increase the number of clones; so, the clones have accelerated growth right? We learn this in AOTC where Boba (the unaltered clone) is like 10 and all the other clones are 10 but look 20. So, in theory, if the senate votes to approve the creation of more clones, they really won't even be ready for another 9 years (assuming you're willing to send clones into combat at 18, but why not? We do that with real people in this country) but that assumes that the war will still be going on 9 years from now.

I could be wrong but the impetus for the increased number of troops is because the Seps are building more and more battle droids which would be instantly available where as the clones would take 9 years. Am I getting this wrong or does it make sense to anyone else? I mean, if they needed more troops now, why not create some sort of intergalactic draft? That seems like a much better way to get troops on the ground in a hurry.

Darth Metalmute
12-09-2010, 10:34 AM
Question about all this voting to increase the number of clones; so, the clones have accelerated growth right? We learn this in AOTC where Boba (the unaltered clone) is like 10 and all the other clones are 10 but look 20. So, in theory, if the senate votes to approve the creation of more clones, they really won't even be ready for another 9 years (assuming you're willing to send clones into combat at 18, but why not? We do that with real people in this country) but that assumes that the war will still be going on 9 years from now.

I could be wrong but the impetus for the increased number of troops is because the Seps are building more and more battle droids which would be instantly available where as the clones would take 9 years. Am I getting this wrong or does it make sense to anyone else? I mean, if they needed more troops now, why not create some sort of intergalactic draft? That seems like a much better way to get troops on the ground in a hurry.


Yeah, its kind of hard to service a ongoing war if your troopers take 10 years to grow. I'm guessing that the Kaminoians have been growing troopers for quite a long while in anticipation of this (Sideous grand sceme). It's probably a pay per head account. Although it doesn't seem to make sense that the Jedi are taking young cadets under their wing if the Republic hasn't paid for them yet.

JimJamBonds
12-09-2010, 05:07 PM
Question about all this voting to increase the number of clones; so, the clones have accelerated growth right? We learn this in AOTC where Boba (the unaltered clone) is like 10 and all the other clones are 10 but look 20. So, in theory, if the senate votes to approve the creation of more clones, they really won't even be ready for another 9 years (assuming you're willing to send clones into combat at 18, but why not? We do that with real people in this country) but that assumes that the war will still be going on 9 years from now.

I could be wrong but the impetus for the increased number of troops is because the Seps are building more and more battle droids which would be instantly available where as the clones would take 9 years. Am I getting this wrong or does it make sense to anyone else? I mean, if they needed more troops now, why not create some sort of intergalactic draft? That seems like a much better way to get troops on the ground in a hurry.
Good point DJ, I wondered about the growth issue as well. As far as your comment about a draft in one of the recent episodes didn't somebody in the Senate make a comment about troopers coming from "Kaminoian" or any of the other plants in the Republic??? Kinda sounded like they were already taking on non clone troops.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Well, the EU had the Spaarti [sp?] clone chambers that excelerated the aging process at the cost of mental and lifespan stability. Maybe they'll consider a different cloning group (bidding war? wouldn't that make for gripping dialogue? :rolleyes: ) or technique (to explain the bad shot stormtroopers to come?).

Darth Metalmute
12-09-2010, 09:39 PM
Well, the EU had the Spaarti [sp?] clone chambers that excelerated the aging process at the cost of mental and lifespan stability.

I thought that was due to the Ysalamiri.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-10-2010, 06:42 PM
I think the Ysalamiri (was that a salamander calamari combo from Ypsilanti, Tim Z.? :p) simply created the Force bubble to protect one from Force users; they weren't a part of the cloning process, were they?

Mad Slanted Powers
12-10-2010, 06:46 PM
I think the Ysalamiri (was that a salamander calamari combo from Ypsilanti, Tim Z.? :p) simply created the Force bubble to protect one from Force users; they weren't a part of the cloning process, were they?

You are correct, sir, as far as I can recall.

I noticed the music that the Bith band was playing sounded like Peter Gunn.

Darth Metalmute
12-10-2010, 09:37 PM
I think the Ysalamiri (was that a salamander calamari combo from Ypsilanti, Tim Z.? :p) simply created the Force bubble to protect one from Force users; they weren't a part of the cloning process, were they?

I think they had the ysalamiri in the cloning chamber to keep the "force" out and the lack of the force accelerated the aging process.

Blue2th
12-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Spoiler, Bonus preview: http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/

Looks like the assassin has "failed for the last time"
The earlier bonus preview I saw with Sidious is finally coming to light. Should be interesting to watch this story unfold. Making room for the new apprentice I assume.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-14-2010, 02:28 PM
Entertainment Weekly (http://insidetv.ew.com/2010/12/14/star-wars-the-clone-wars-trailer-an-ew-exclusive/) has the 60-second preview that debuted with the Savage Opress episodes, showing clips from the remainder of Season Three.

Spoilers here on out . . .
Uh, holy crap. I've heard a lot of people freaking out about Ahsoka at the end, but it just looks like she's being controlled or something. That's pretty wild. Felucia looks absolutely gorgeous at night. Several of the images looked pretty heavily based in fantasy, which should be interesting. I'm also excited for Saesee Tiin and Even Piell.

But oh, another month to wait . . .

Blue2th
12-14-2010, 06:04 PM
She looks assimilated as in Borgified.

A new dark lord?

Looking forward to 2011 CW.

JimJamBonds
12-14-2010, 06:16 PM
Looks like some good stuff, why weren't there any action shots of the senate? ;) What was up with that bat dude around 35 seconds into the clip?

JediTricks
01-04-2011, 05:37 PM
A month later, and Clone Wars is back with this awful new screenshot: http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3186

Seriously, that has got to be the worst pic I've gotten from these Lucasfilm press releases. Just awkward as hell, and poorly composed.

Still, the text is at least adequate, and a new episode is airing this friday.

El Chuxter
01-04-2011, 05:45 PM
Dude, Asajj has an incredibly weird face!

So, they're not only completely negating Asajj's perfectly good existing origin, but bringing more attention to the supposedly isolated and practically unknown Dathomir and changing both the nature of the Nightsisters and the Force itself?

My, they're either so stupid they have to hire people to wipe the constant stream of drool off their chins or they have scrapes on their massively large cajones from dragging them on the ground.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-04-2011, 06:04 PM
Dude, Asajj has an incredibly weird face!

So, they're not only completely negating Asajj's perfectly good existing origin, but bringing more attention to the supposedly isolated and practically unknown Dathomir and changing both the nature of the Nightsisters and the Force itself?

My, they're either so stupid they have to hire people to wipe the constant stream of drool off their chins or they have scrapes on their massively large cajones from dragging them on the ground.
Actually, her entire backstory is still seemingly intact. From what it sounds like, they even allude to a great deal of her EU past. They're just adding to it. The current Star Wars Insider has a lot of information on the changes.

El Chuxter
01-04-2011, 06:09 PM
How can she be a Nightsister from another planet? Unfamiliar with the Force and unrecognized as a Nightsister by a Jedi? If they're keeping it all, it's going to require more retcons than all the post-97 Greedo appearances combined.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-04-2011, 06:14 PM
From Insider:


The Fate of Rattatak

One of the more startling revelations from the Savage Opress story arc is that Asajj Ventress is from Dathomir, not Rattatak as previously told in the EU. The scenes of Asajj's recovery on Dathomir reveal the tie-ins to Ventress' EU past. We discover that Asajj was not born on Rattatak, but rather she was taken there by raiders after having been given up as an offering by Mother Talzin. Though the Rattataki, a bald, pale-skinned species not unlike Ventress, are still the predominant species on Rattatak in the EU, the series depicts human, Siniteen, and Zabrak inhabitants. Like in the EU, Asajj was befriended by a Jedi named Ky Narec who found himself isolated on the planet. Sensing Asajj's Force potential, Narec trained Asajj in the Jedi arts, but he fell in battle when their village was attacked by pirates, which is consistent with the previous EU backstory for Asajj.

El Chuxter
01-04-2011, 08:47 PM
"Consistent"? Oh, jeez. I can say Han Solo secretly dresses in women's underwear and dances to Lady Gaga when no one's around, and it's consistent with what we saw in the movies.

When she was discovered, she knew nothing about the Jedi or the Force. The Witches know quite a bit abot both. That's going to be messy once someone realize that.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-04-2011, 11:56 PM
"Consistent"? Oh, jeez. I can say Han Solo secretly dresses in women's underwear and dances to Lady Gaga when no one's around, and it's consistent with what we saw in the movies.

When she was discovered, she knew nothing about the Jedi or the Force. The Witches know quite a bit abot both. That's going to be messy once someone realize that.
Where was it established that she knew nothing of them?

El Chuxter
01-05-2011, 12:07 AM
In the issue of Republic where it actually told her origin. If not nothing, then very, very little.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-06-2011, 02:34 PM
I actually have that issue (#60) in a collection - Clone Wars Volume 5: The Best Blades. I'll continue re-typing copyrighted material, since, well, what the hell. :D After escaping Ventress' imprisonment after the battle of Jabiim, Obi-Wan and Alpha hide out and hear the following from prisoner Osika Kirske:

"Rattatak is a world of warriors and soldiers. For eons, we have battles one another for the right to rule.
We knew nothing of the outside galaxy or your Republic, but still found new and inventive ways to kill one another.
All my life, I had only known victory in war. I conquered many cities and killed many of my rivals.
But there were many other warlords who struggled for power, including Ventress' parents. They assembled a massive army in the southern hemisphere.
I killed her parents before they could become a real threat.
Only the girl ... Asajj ... escaped.
Soon after, a warlock fell out of the sky. He claimed to be an amissary from another world ... your Republic.
So, of course, we tried to kill him.
On her own, Asajj would have died. Left to his own devices, the stranger would have undoubtedly been captured and killed. But together...
...They became something our world had never known... They became heroes.
They ended wars and united armies. And, as their legend grew...
...we heard stories of the girl using strange powers. She could move things with her mind, and control the thoughts of her enemies, it was said.
So I convinced the other warlords and generals to join forces, at least long enough to kill Ventress and her mentor.
We completed only half our plan.
After her mentor's death, Ventress assembled an army. She learned new tricks from other off-worlders.
She waged war on us all.
She killed or captured all who would oppose her..."
So while the Rattataki "knew nothing of the outside galaxy or your Republic," which is where I'm assuming you got your "Asajj didn't know about the Force" thing, I still think there's room for this to fit in there without disrupting it too heavily. I wonder if she'll still be young when she goes from Dathomir to Rattatak, as she appears to be a girl of indeterminate age when her parents die. I bet they'll say that her "parents" were more like adoptive parents. The episode's tomorrow so I guess we'll see.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-07-2011, 11:15 PM
Holy Mother Talzin, this arc is off to a freakin' awesome start.

Right off the bat, as to the continuity, the only "major" thing I see is that Ventress had the Siniteen master as a young child (whoever that was supposed to be, though I dig those face tattoos) but no sight of her Rattataki parents. Though maybe that'll just be an offscreen thing. Other than that, though, it seems that the Republic #60 story, micro-series story, and this series of flashbacks should have no major troubles fitting in nicely together (having Dooku test Ventress would likely lead to the Rattataki arena from the micro-series). I was surprised that Ky Narec looked the same (aside from a wardrobe change), and that she Ventress was a baby when she went to Rattatak. I loved Ventress' punk-rocker look as a teen. Cool stuff. I also noticed that the outfit she had in the first part of the episode was the one from earlier material, like the micro-series - the episode guide says it's the first time it's appeared in this show.

I really like Anakin and Obi-Wan's new looks in action; some of the promo shots of Anakin have had weird expressions, but I thought it was really working well here. The ROTS-esque space battle-then-lightsaber-duel was great to see. And the Sullust nod was awesome as well.

As for the witches themselves, hot damn, were they creepy. I loved the effects that went along with Talzin's voice to give her a resonating tone. I'm definitely glad this is a three-parter as I want to see more of them.

Oh, and Dooku's PJ's and Serenno castle were pimpin'. :p

Bel-Cam Jos
01-08-2011, 10:49 AM
I also was pleasantly surprised by the quality of this episode. So Ventress went from Flock of Seagulls haircut to baldy, eh? Could she switch back to Jedi in an ironic twist and then fall victim in the Order 66 slaughter? I liked the saber battles and background music; very movie-esque instead of the cartoonish style. Did not like the same opening to ROTS battle though. The Force lightning scenes were cool, and Dathomir looked great.

Maerj2000
01-08-2011, 01:15 PM
The ships and backgrounds are really amazing. The visuals are really top notch on this show, IMHO. Cool episode, nice to take some time with this Asajj and get to know her a bit.

Darth Metalmute
01-08-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm going to have to re-watch it. I initially only thought it was okay. I can't figure out why Sideous would have Dooku kill Ventress in the middle of a war.

I also didn't care for the blatant theft of the opening of ROTS. Sure it was visually stunning, but be original.

bigbarada
01-08-2011, 07:28 PM
Entertainment Weekly (http://insidetv.ew.com/2010/12/14/star-wars-the-clone-wars-trailer-an-ew-exclusive/) has the 60-second preview that debuted with the Savage Opress episodes, showing clips from the remainder of Season Three.

Spoilers here on out . . .
Uh, holy crap. I've heard a lot of people freaking out about Ahsoka at the end, but it just looks like she's being controlled or something. That's pretty wild. Felucia looks absolutely gorgeous at night. Several of the images looked pretty heavily based in fantasy, which should be interesting. I'm also excited for Saesee Tiin and Even Piell.

But oh, another month to wait . . .

Did I see Tradoshans in that preview?

Rocketboy
01-08-2011, 09:33 PM
As usual the visuals were absolutely amazing. The story...not so much.
Giving Ventress a backstory doesn't make her any more likable.

sonofsokol
01-08-2011, 11:13 PM
It was definitely nice to have some lightsaber action for a change. :yes:

I know Hasbro has said that the fans kids don't respond to female action figures, but I would totally dig a Nightsisters battle pack with a Mother Talzin, with Ventress, Naa'leth and Karis in their "battle" gear. That would be sweet.

JediTricks
01-09-2011, 03:39 PM
I'm going to have to re-watch it. I initially only thought it was okay. I can't figure out why Sideous would have Dooku kill Ventress in the middle of a war.

I also didn't care for the blatant theft of the opening of ROTS. Sure it was visually stunning, but be original.
Agreed on both parts.


Things that bugged me about this episode:

- the opening space battle was very confused visually, and the movement was extremely stiff. Actually, all the movement in this episode was especially stiff.

- Ventress is beaten by 2 Jedi but then pulls a major move like strangle out of her bag o' tricks? Where was that when EVERY OTHER SITH-TYPE CHARACTER WAS IN DANGER?!? The ANH script suggests the Force users are constantly throwing that sort of stuff at each other and deflecting it, so where was the "deflecting it" portion?

- What was up with giving away lil' Asajj? They totally glossed over that.

- I don't remember many Star Warsy wipes and cuts from scene to scene, that was kind of odd. I'll have to rewatch for them, but it didn't feel there.

- So now Dooku's pockets are so deep he can afford to scrap an entire command ship full of droids for no real reason? "Uh oh, got a scratch on the paint, better melt it down and get another."

- The TX command droid seemed awfully sympathetic, kind of creepy and out of place really.

- Dooku was really not wrong when he told Ventress "You've failed me for the last time, Admiral Ozzel... I mean, Asajj Ventress." She has consistently failed to do her job in EVERY SINGLE ENGAGEMENT in the series. But the Sith seem to keep incompetent fools as their lackeys simply because they look cool, I guess.

- They let the Nightsisters seem dangerous, but then show them to be lesser-thans. Hopefully they can come up with something better soon.

- What kind of a plan involves going invisible, successfully darting an enemy, then not using poison in the dart? Dull his senses? How about easily kill him? It was a weak plan. Then again, Dooku's fortress wasn't particularly well protected anyway, so maybe Dooku's been looking for a way out all along. ;)

- Nightsisters: Hi Dooku, we just heard about Asajj, how about we replace her with another apprentice for you?

Dooku: Oh yeah, how did you hear about that again? Anyway, you seem totally trustworthy, and even though you had nothing to do with me getting the first one, how about I treat you like the apprentice store and you send me a boy 'this time'? Because Asajj's gender was clearly the source of her weakness, as evidenced by nothing, but you know, got a plot to move along here.

JimJamBonds
01-09-2011, 07:12 PM
It didn't do much for me, so Asajj was a Jedi??? Ummm ok. A double choke move to take out Obbers and Anners? Ummm ok.

About the only decent thing is we saw Dooku in his pj's.

Darth Metalmute
01-09-2011, 10:21 PM
- Nightsisters: Hi Dooku, we just heard about Asajj, how about we replace her with another apprentice for you?

Dooku: Oh yeah, how did you hear about that again? Anyway, you seem totally trustworthy, and even though you had nothing to do with me getting the first one, how about I treat you like the apprentice store and you send me a boy 'this time'? Because Asajj's gender was clearly the source of her weakness, as evidenced by nothing, but you know, got a plot to move along here.

Hopefully they ship with Fed-Ex, since UPS will just crush his shipping box.

And whats up with the Count being referred as Dooku and Tryannus? Isn't there a set of guidelines to when he is one and when he is the other?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-09-2011, 10:34 PM
It didn't do much for me, so Asajj was a Jedi??? Ummm ok. A double choke move to take out Obbers and Anners? Ummm ok.

About the only decent thing is we saw Dooku in his pj's.
Asajj being a Jedi trained by Ky Narec has been in the EU for several years now.


And whats up with the Count being referred as Dooku and Tryannus? Isn't there a set of guidelines to when he is one and when he is the other?
Doesn't Sidious always call him Lord Tyranus? He does here, he does in AOTC, and I think he does in the Clone Wars movie (though I'm not sure). I figure when they're talking to each other they use their Sith names, like they're in a secret club. :p

Darth Metalmute
01-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Doesn't Sidious always call him Lord Tyranus? He does here, he does in AOTC, and I think he does in the Clone Wars movie (though I'm not sure). I figure when they're talking to each other they use their Sith names, like they're in a secret club. :p

For some reason, I thought Sidious called him both names, but the Nightsister witch called him Dooku. I would have thought since she knew he was a Sith Lord, she would have called him Tryannus.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-10-2011, 01:10 PM
For some reason, I thought Sidious called him both names, but the Nightsister witch called him Dooku. I would have thought since she knew he was a Sith Lord, she would have called him Tryannus.
I'm not sure if there's any hard and fast rule. Dooku used "Tyranus" when recruiting Jango, per Jango's discussion with Obi-Wan in AOTC, and then the only other times in the film or TV show we've heard it is from Sidious. I can't remember any instances of Sidious calling him Dooku (aside from when Palpatine does in ROTS, talking to the Jedi). It seems to be relatively well-known that Count Dooku is a Sith - Palpatine calls him one in ROTS, and the opening crawl refers to him as the "Sith Lord Count Dooku," and the Jedi know he's turned to the Dark Side, though I suppose I'm not sure how much everyone else knows about him. So I'm thinking Dooku is his more public name and Tyranus is only used very rarely, perhaps just by Sidious or when Dooku is trying to hide his identity.

El Chuxter
01-10-2011, 04:17 PM
Saw this today, and discovered Cartoon Network OnDemand now blocks fast-forwarding past commercials, which is my biggest complaint. :mad:

This peed on continuity quite a bit, but not in the ways I expected. The Nightsisters are supposed to be a breakaway Dark Side sect of the Witches of Dathomir. The Witches are the descendants of human prisoners from an ancient, forgotten Republic prison called the Chun'thor, which crashed on Dathomir long ago. The descendants of the prisoners reverted to a primitive, matriarchal lifestyle. As a young Jedi, Yoda was one of the Jedi sent to re-establish contact, so it's been well over 1,000 years at the time of the Clone Wars.

The inhabitants of Dathomir were originally said to have had no contact with the outside galaxy in ages, though a few TPM-era comics already peed all over that. Still, they shouldn't have lightsabers and spaceships.

Oh, and the dudes aren't supposed to be Force-sensitive. And even if there were non-humans, there shouldn't be a breeding population of Zabraks sufficient to last a millennium. And I guess Asajj's species now became the Nightsisters and they're not human anymore?

Weak. And not because of the continuity issues. It's funny how the show is so weak, when the movie surprised me quite a bit.

JediTricks
01-10-2011, 04:52 PM
About the only decent thing is we saw Dooku in his pj's.I thought that was his regular outfit, minus cloak.



Hopefully they ship with Fed-Ex, since UPS will just crush his shipping box.

And whats up with the Count being referred as Dooku and Tryannus? Isn't there a set of guidelines to when he is one and when he is the other?I think they'll go with DHL since they're germanic in origin. :p

I didn't mind SOMEONE calling him Tyrannus, it's a name that's never stuck, and it's hard to think of old count Dooku as a Sith without it. The fact that only Palps knows and uses the name suggests Dooku is using his regular name as his press-face, which jibes with the Lucas backstory for the character.

JimJamBonds
01-10-2011, 06:30 PM
Asajj being a Jedi trained by Ky Narec has been in the EU for several years now.
I figured that was the case, still I think its lame.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-10-2011, 08:52 PM
Saw this today, and discovered Cartoon Network OnDemand now blocks fast-forwarding past commercials, which is my biggest complaint. :mad:

This peed on continuity quite a bit, but not in the ways I expected. The Nightsisters are supposed to be a breakaway Dark Side sect of the Witches of Dathomir. The Witches are the descendants of human prisoners from an ancient, forgotten Republic prison called the Chun'thor, which crashed on Dathomir long ago. The descendants of the prisoners reverted to a primitive, matriarchal lifestyle. As a young Jedi, Yoda was one of the Jedi sent to re-establish contact, so it's been well over 1,000 years at the time of the Clone Wars.

The inhabitants of Dathomir were originally said to have had no contact with the outside galaxy in ages, though a few TPM-era comics already peed all over that. Still, they shouldn't have lightsabers and spaceships.

Oh, and the dudes aren't supposed to be Force-sensitive. And even if there were non-humans, there shouldn't be a breeding population of Zabraks sufficient to last a millennium. And I guess Asajj's species now became the Nightsisters and they're not human anymore?

Weak. And not because of the continuity issues. It's funny how the show is so weak, when the movie surprised me quite a bit.
I can't speak on much of that, but in the show, where did they have spaceships? And it seemed that they took the lightsabers from Jedi, one way or another.

The species thing was also explained in Insider. They go over the history of the species in the EU and then this:

In integrating the existing EU back-story with the new revelations in The Clone Wars, it was determined that the original Dathomirians were humans, but that a small group of Zabraks ended up on the planet generations prior to the Clone Wars. They were discovered by the human Nightsisters, who found them genetically compatible and isolated them to a small area of the planet from which the Nightsisters could draw them at their whim. Human-Zabrak hybrids result in females who look near-huan with pale skin and no horns, and males with horns and skin-patterns identified as Zabrak. The full-body tattoos covering Darth Maul, originally thought to be linked to the Sith, come from the warrior culture of the Nightbrothers.


I thought that was his regular outfit, minus cloak.
Nope. The most obvious difference is the collar, present on his pajamas but not his regular clothes. There's also a pattern on the sleeves and a breast pocket, among other things.

El Chuxter
01-10-2011, 10:24 PM
Asajj and her "sisters" used some sort of freighter when they went to attempt the most incompetent ninja-style assassination ever. (I definitely agree with JT about the poison.) I may have missed that it was stolen.

Regarding lightsabers, if they are constantly able to steal sabers from (presumably dead) Jedi, that sort of undermines the whole "isolated entirely from civilization" thing, doesn't it?

Explaining a major retcon in a magazine instead of the show where it happens is bad form. It reminds me of the old Image Comics, where the interview with Rob Liefeld or Whilce Portacio or whoever in Wizard would give away the entire story, which wouldn't make sense if you didn't follow Wizard (which wasn't hard to do; it was a crappy magazine). In any case, judging from the retcons they're pulling here, no one on the writing staff has heard of Occam's Razor.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-11-2011, 01:14 AM
Asajj and her "sisters" used some sort of freighter when they went to attempt the most incompetent ninja-style assassination ever. (I definitely agree with JT about the poison.) I may have missed that it was stolen.
Er . . . it was the freighter that Asajj stole, which she took to Dathomir. Your Star Wars-related memory problems won't even let you remember something you saw ten minutes earlier. ;) :p


Explaining a major retcon in a magazine instead of the show where it happens is bad form. It reminds me of the old Image Comics, where the interview with Rob Liefeld or Whilce Portacio or whoever in Wizard would give away the entire story, which wouldn't make sense if you didn't follow Wizard (which wasn't hard to do; it was a crappy magazine). In any case, judging from the retcons they're pulling here, no one on the writing staff has heard of Occam's Razor.
I don't really think so. The general audience either doesn't know or doesn't care about the retcons, and those who do care enough will presumably be able to find out how the changes are being integrated. It makes perfect sense to most viewers - the Nightsisters have pale skin, and that's that; it's just people who have been reading Star Wars materials for years and years who would take issue, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they'd see it in Insider (or later see it on Wookieepedia, or wherever). But I'm thinking that the majority of people who see this show won't have read the Courtship of Princess Leia or other Nightsisters-related stuff, especially not the kids, so having characters go over their genealogy on the TV show would be a massive waste of time.

The writers of the show, from what I can tell, have nothing to do with making the different versions fit; that's up to the continuity experts, like Leland Chee and so on. Filoni had Katie Lucas look over the existing Asajj Ventress and Nightsisters stuff, which is why it's not totally 100% different from previous materials. As far as the series is concerned, Nightsisters are pale-skinned witches from Dathomir, and Nightbrothers are Zabraks from Dathomir. The retcon guys are the ones saying all the stuff about inter-species breeding and so on; it's completely irrelevant to the story on its own. Each version of the conflicting canon is in and of itself simple and easy to follow; it's when they're all supposed to fit that we have to get these convoluted explanations, and thus the Occam's razor complaints.

El Chuxter
01-11-2011, 08:15 AM
I missed a few minutes, so that must've been the point where she stole the ship.

I do find it very interesting that, to make everything fit, they say Zabraks and humans are compatible, but humans and Tuskens are still not, despite looking exactly the same. It actually would be simpler to understand if they just nullified older stories.

JediTricks
01-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Press release about this Friday's episode: http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3197

Sounds like they're downplaying the "Darth Maul's brother" angle.



Asajj and her "sisters" used some sort of freighter when they went to attempt the most incompetent ninja-style assassination ever. (I definitely agree with JT about the poison.) I may have missed that it was stolen.The freighter was a salvage ship surveying the aftermath of the battle when they came across Ventress' downed fighter, gave her very brief medical attention, and then made plain that they expect to make money by selling her back to whomever lost her in the battle. She insisted they take her to Dathomir, then used the Force to (mostly off-screen) dispose of the crew. It was entirely clear in the episode where the ship came from.


Regarding lightsabers, if they are constantly able to steal sabers from (presumably dead) Jedi, that sort of undermines the whole "isolated entirely from civilization" thing, doesn't it?Quite right. And them calling Dooku with a holonet device was pretty bad too, it'd be like getting a phone call from the Amish.

Oh, and how exactly does Asajj know she's a Nightsister from Dathomir, and that's where she should go, if she was sold to the slaver as an infant?

Maerj2000
01-11-2011, 04:56 PM
Quite right. And them calling Dooku with a holonet device was pretty bad too, it'd be like getting a phone call from the Amish.



There are Amish with cell phones and computers, etc. There are all sorts of ways to get around it. For example, they can't have a computer in the house, so they will put it in the barn. They can't have electricity in their own home, so two neighbors will rent each other's houses to each other so they can have electricity. Not all Amish do this but there are some. :D

JimJamBonds
01-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Press release about this Friday's episode: http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=3197

Sounds like they're downplaying the "Darth Maul's brother" angle.
Interesting that the Flanneled One's daughter is a writer for the show. Did anybody else know that?

DarkJedi5
01-11-2011, 08:39 PM
Oh, and how exactly does Asajj know she's a Nightsister from Dathomir, and that's where she should go, if she was sold to the slaver as an infant?

I just assumed it was something along the lines of Leia having memories of her mother. Something to the effect of force sensitives having an ability to recall memories others would have forgotten.


Interesting that the Flanneled One's daughter is a writer for the show. Did anybody else know that?

Yeah she's been doing them since season 1 but most of them have been this season. Her credits are; Jedi Crash, Sphere of Influence, Assassin, and Nightsisters. Seems like she's getting more and more into the "family business."

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-11-2011, 10:17 PM
I just assumed it was something along the lines of Leia having memories of her mother. Something to the effect of force sensitives having an ability to recall memories others would have forgotten.

It's possible that she returned to Dathomir after the death of Ky Narec, before she joins Dooku, but that's never stated, and it's implied that she hasn't been there since she was taken. At the same time, though, she got the facial tattoos, which the EU says was based on Rattataki victories but seems to be common with the Nightsisters and Nightbrothers in the show, so maybe she just got them to show off her past. It's also possible that she was just always brought up knowing that she was from Dathomir, and that's that. :p

El Chuxter
01-11-2011, 10:24 PM
If she'd been there before after Nerec's death, though, why did no one recognize her except Rita Repulsa, who was happy to see her after such a long time?

And an unrelated, serious question: wonder if Cydon Prax or Durge will ever show up on the show?

DarkJedi5
01-11-2011, 11:09 PM
And an unrelated, serious question: wonder if Cydon Prax or Durge will ever show up on the show?

Pretty sure Durge never will. I can't remember where I heard it but I recall seeing somewhere that Cad Bane was developed to replace Durge.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-11-2011, 11:48 PM
If she'd been there before after Nerec's death, though, why did no one recognize her except Rita Repulsa, who was happy to see her after such a long time?
Right, which probably means that my last answer is the correct one. :D


And an unrelated, serious question: wonder if Cydon Prax or Durge will ever show up on the show?
Boy, that Cydon Prax sure has one uninspired design (like most of the EU). But as DarkJedi5 says, originally Durge was going to be the main bounty hunter in the series, but as it progressed he kind of evolved into being Cad Bane. Now basically anything Durge would have done, they'd have Cad Bane do instead, so I doubt he'll show up.

Rocketboy
01-12-2011, 12:17 AM
Cad Bane replaced Durge?
Talk about going from bad to worse...

El Chuxter
01-12-2011, 01:05 AM
I only ask because the micro-series made a point to show Durge wasn't nearly as dead as it seemed. As opposed to Asajj, who it last showed falling off a Massassi temple.

Cydon Prax seems to have been clearly replaced by Durge, as they look similar and have almost the exact same origin tale, IIRC.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-12-2011, 02:08 PM
I always thought Durge's goo was just seeping around, like water evaporating or whatever. He was still alive in the comics for a while, though, so there's that.

It's the same thing with Asajj - the comics kept her around even after the micro-series was finished with her. I'm thinking it was a lack of planning or communication between the various media telling the same story at once.

Rocketboy
01-12-2011, 03:41 PM
Durge was killed in the comics.
Anakin shot him into a star in an escape pod, IIRC.

El Chuxter
01-12-2011, 03:56 PM
Yeah, but that's at the end of the war, as Anakin slips closer to darkness. During the period between the micro-series and his death, Durge and Asajj were partners... until the new series came along.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Yeah, but that's at the end of the war, as Anakin slips closer to darkness. During the period between the micro-series and his death, Durge and Asajj were partners... until the new series came along.
Again, though, their lives and deaths/disappearances weren't kept straight back then, so why is it a huge deal that they're not sticking 100% to them now? They were connected through a great deal of futzing and retconning, so I'm sure they'll do the same here. They'll probably say Durge was around, just not shown in this series.

Blue2th
01-13-2011, 07:54 PM
Another sneak peek : http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/01/13/star-wars-the-clone-wars-savage-opress/

JimJamBonds
01-14-2011, 10:24 PM
Another new episode and another "meh" from this guy.

Rocketboy
01-14-2011, 10:58 PM
With all the "tests" Darth Maul #2 had to go through this episode looked like a video game.

Talk about an overhyped arc...

JimJamBonds
01-15-2011, 09:15 AM
With all the "tests" Darth Maul #2 had to go through this episode looked like a video game.

Talk about an overhyped arc...
Yeah, and then he can just go to a planet and take out a Jedi and Pediwan no problem? WTF?!?!?!

Bel-Cam Jos
01-15-2011, 10:03 AM
I couldn't believe how "Monster" went! I mean, Charlez Theron was creepy! She played that woman so... [whisper, whisper] Huh? Oh, the Clone Wars cartoon epsiode. Gotcha. ;)

Yeah, it was okay. I was most impressed by how the Men's Mountain Retreat already had those lifting monoliths installed (and even decorated with tattooed Zabrak heads). I was wondering when Savage Garden, er Savage Maul-in-law would appear, until I realized that Sah-vahge was the pronunciation. :duh: :sleeping: The whiny brother Zabrak (was his name Pharoah?) could be a distant cousin of Luke Skywalker; wonder if he ever made to Tosche Station?

JimJamBonds
01-15-2011, 07:32 PM
The whiny brother Zabrak (was his name Pharoah?) could be a distant cousin of Luke Skywalker; wonder if he ever made to Tosche Station?
Negative, his uncle wouldn't let him pick up those power converters.

JediTricks
01-16-2011, 06:02 PM
I just assumed it was something along the lines of Leia having memories of her mother. Something to the effect of force sensitives having an ability to recall memories others would have forgotten.Ugh, I suppose maybe so, but yucko to the whole concept, that bit has never sat well with me. Plus, this is a lot more than vague images and feelings.



Another new episode and another "meh" from this guy.Agreed.


With all the "tests" Darth Maul #2 had to go through this episode looked like a video game.

Talk about an overhyped arc...Agreed.

Agreed.


Yeah, and then he can just go to a planet and take out a Jedi and Pediwan no problem? WTF?!?!?!Agreed.


Also, there's NO explanation as to why the Zabraks are there, why they are pledged to the Nightsisters, why Savage is all hung up on his wimpy buddy (and why the painfully obvious twist ending to that storyline was telegraphed), how they are a continuing line without females, why they're running tattoos like Maul's, and what the whole point of their overly-convoluted plot is!

"We'll give Dooku a new Darth Mauly type, and then... uh... get him to kill Dooku?"

"We could have done that before, just used better poison."

"But we didn't."

"But we could try it again, that part of the plan worked really well at the time."

"No, I think we'll just make a lumbering behemoth out of one of the guys on the other side of the planet, get him in good with Dooku, and hope for something to happen."

"... um, ok... I guess. How is that revenge? Oh, and why do we need this elaborate revenge? It's been so long that I forgot."

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Perhaps unsurprisingly to some of you, I really liked this one. :p So far, Savage's character is quite interesting to me; I like that he's a tragic type instead of just a bloodthirsty monster from the beginning. I really don't know how this storyline will continue, which is pretty exciting, as you do already know how much of the other stuff in the series will turn out.

I was glad to finally get confirmation that Dooku was planning to overthrow Sidious. It's been implied, but now that it's in the canon makes me wonder if Savage will be revealed and cause Sidious to hasten his plan to get rid of Dooku in favor of Anakin.


Also, there's NO explanation as to why the Zabraks are there, why they are pledged to the Nightsisters, why Savage is all hung up on his wimpy buddy (and why the painfully obvious twist ending to that storyline was telegraphed), how they are a continuing line without females, why they're running tattoos like Maul's, and what the whole point of their overly-convoluted plot is!
I posted the whole thing about the Dathomirians being human-Zabrak hybrids a while back, so go read it. ;) I'm assuming they're subservient to the Nightsisters since the women have the magic - and thus the power - and they do not.

Why would they need to explain why they have tattoos? It's obviously part of their culture. The Nightsisters have tattoos as well. What's next, an explanation for how Mace lost his hair? That's just how it is.

And why is Savage not allowed to have a friend that he wants to look out for and defend? It's showing him as honorable and loyal.

Darth Metalmute
01-17-2011, 07:42 AM
Although I did like the twist-tragic ending, I really didn't care for this episode.

First, why would Ventress be allowed to kill whomever she likes? The Zabraks headmaster did not look happy about it, so why was it allowed to happen? If they truely were slaves, why not use their magic to make them all big and huge with total submission in the first place.

Which brings me to my second point, what's up with magic? Maybe I'm being hypocritical that I am content with the idea of The Force, but isn't magic a little much? I was pretty sure The Force couldn't make you bigger and stronger without training and while I don't fully understand the nightsisters like you guys do, I was under the impression they were just force sensitive outcasts. Making a glass appear out of thin air? Permanent control of one's mind? I would have rather they stuck an earwig in his ear to control his mind.

If GL and his cartoon forces have any kind of soul left in them, Savage will kill Ventress in the arc finale.

Blue2th
01-17-2011, 01:36 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I wonder why these guys are tattooed with a yellow and black? Speculating that Maul's brothers if they existed, were an earlier red clan. Must be a generational thing.

Of course they can make up whatever they want, but it's working for me. Then again I don't have all this knowledge of the EU.

Can't wait to see what's next with Savauge (I like the way they pronounce it ) Far better than spending multiple episodes in the endless political intrigue of the Senate.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-17-2011, 02:30 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I wonder why these guys are tattooed with a yellow and black? Speculating that Maul's brothers if they existed, were an earlier red clan. Must be a generational thing.
There were both yellow and red warriors in this episode, so I guess it's just a difference in skin color, or something.


If GL and his cartoon forces have any kind of soul left in them, Savage will kill Ventress in the arc finale.
Why does making a cartoon that you disagree with qualify for someone not having a soul? Isn't that a bit much?

El Chuxter
01-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Unless they really want to muck up continuity, he cannot. Asajj still has to discover Anakin's secret, have him go darkside on her again, then survive in stasis until Boz Pity.

Darth Metalmute
01-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Why does making a cartoon that you disagree with qualify for someone not having a soul? Isn't that a bit much?

You get jokes, right? I mean, I know I couldn't find the sarcasm button on the keyboard and all.:D

I have never disagreed with the cartoon. I might disagree with several angles of it but I have always said that this series is what AOTC should have been.

I concerned that if Ventress lives, Dooku will take her back as an apprentice; rendering the entire series to the Family Guy quote; "Remember that one episode of The Honeymooners where Ralph lost his job, but at the end of the show he didn't get it back?" "Oh yeah, that always bugged the crap outta me. What was up with that?"

El Chuxter
01-17-2011, 05:02 PM
I'm going to guess that Ventress kills the Maul Stooges, and Dooku praises her and takes her back as his apprentice, this time in secret, so he can take Sidious' place with her as Darth Baldgirlfromstartrek.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-17-2011, 06:13 PM
You get jokes, right? I mean, I know I couldn't find the sarcasm button on the keyboard and all.:D

I have never disagreed with the cartoon. I might disagree with several angles of it but I have always said that this series is what AOTC should have been.

I concerned that if Ventress lives, Dooku will take her back as an apprentice; rendering the entire series to the Family Guy quote; "Remember that one episode of The Honeymooners where Ralph lost his job, but at the end of the show he didn't get it back?" "Oh yeah, that always bugged the crap outta me. What was up with that?"
Ah, good. It's just that your joke is how a lot of people claim to feel about Lucas, so I couldn't tell.


I'm going to guess that Ventress kills the Maul Stooges, and Dooku praises her and takes her back as his apprentice, this time in secret, so he can take Sidious' place with her as Darth Baldgirlfromstartrek.
No matter what happens, it won't be for a while. Based on previews, Dooku, Ventress, and Savage have a lightsaber fight in the next episode, but I've heard Filoni say that Savage will be around after this arc (though probably not actually in more episodes for a while after that).

Darth Metalmute
01-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Ah, good. It's just that your joke is how a lot of people claim to feel about Lucas, so I couldn't tell.

Well, it's not as if he wrote "GL's soul" on a piece of paper and sold it to Milhouse or anything.:crazed:


I'm going to guess that Ventress kills the Maul Stooges, and Dooku praises her and takes her back as his apprentice, this time in secret, so he can take Sidious' place with her as Darth Baldgirlfromstartrek.

That's what I figure will happen and I think that cheapens the whole thing. I know it barfs in continuities face, but I think Ventress' usefulness has run her course. Kicking her of the Separatist's side and then welcoming her back with opens arms is just lazy.

DarkJedi5
01-18-2011, 07:20 AM
I think Ventress is misused on the show. She is not a military strategist so she makes a poor military leader, that's where Grievous comes in. She should be used more as the assassin she is, except she usually fails cause they send her after Padme or Anakin or some one we know won't be killed off. Why not give her missions she could succeed at and make her seem like a real threat?

Blue2th
01-18-2011, 11:25 AM
It's too late for that "she has failed for the last time" In her cartoon series introduction "it matters not" that she could defeat Anakin or the Jedi. She was just used as a pawn to stir things up by Sidious.

Now that she has become too powerful with the force as Sidious said she has to be eliminated, because perhaps now she could defeat the Jedi or namely Anakin and Sidious has plans for him.

Dooku doesn't even know these things though perhaps he senses something. Though the nature of a Sith is to kill their master and take his place which Dooku has revealed. Sidious probably knows or senses this too. A tangled web he has weaved for everyone.

JediTricks
01-18-2011, 05:06 PM
I posted the whole thing about the Dathomirians being human-Zabrak hybrids a while back, so go read it. ;) I'm assuming they're subservient to the Nightsisters since the women have the magic - and thus the power - and they do not.Oh, I didn't realize they aired your forums post during the episode to explain holes in their story. My mistake. :p


Why would they need to explain why they have tattoos? It's obviously part of their culture. The Nightsisters have tattoos as well. What's next, an explanation for how Mace lost his hair? That's just how it is.We've seen other Zabraks, such as Eeth Koth and Maris Brood and Agen Kolar and Sugi, who don't have Maul-style tattoos. Other previous literature had made plain that Maul's tattoos were Sith tattoos, and that the style is specifically Sith as Legacy made plainer than plain.


And why is Savage not allowed to have a friend that he wants to look out for and defend? It's showing him as honorable and loyal.He's allowed to, just needs some actual backstory to carry it, or it comes off hollow and contrived only for the needs of the plot.



First, why would Ventress be allowed to kill whomever she likes? The Zabraks headmaster did not look happy about it, so why was it allowed to happen? If they truely were slaves, why not use their magic to make them all big and huge with total submission in the first place.AH! Good point, why didn't they make the entire race into their giant slave army?


Which brings me to my second point, what's up with magic? Maybe I'm being hypocritical that I am content with the idea of The Force, but isn't magic a little much? I was pretty sure The Force couldn't make you bigger and stronger without training and while I don't fully understand the nightsisters like you guys do, I was under the impression they were just force sensitive outcasts. Making a glass appear out of thin air? Permanent control of one's mind? I would have rather they stuck an earwig in his ear to control his mind.I think they could have it in the SW universe if they explained it as a method of using the Force that neither the Sith nor the Jedi would ever dream of, but this show seems entirely uninterested in hinting at explanations lately.


That's what I figure will happen and I think that cheapens the whole thing. I know it barfs in continuities face, but I think Ventress' usefulness has run her course. Kicking her of the Separatist's side and then welcoming her back with opens arms is just lazy. No no no, I'm sorry, I cannot let this pass... when has Ventress EVER been useful? :D

El Chuxter
01-18-2011, 05:22 PM
when has Ventress EVER been useful? :D

As a plot device.

Blue2th
01-18-2011, 06:26 PM
There were both yellow and red warriors in this episode, so I guess it's just a difference in skin color, or something.

Ok I see the orange warriors, but nothing as red as Maul or even as deep as the reds used in the same scenes. Could be that colored pencil pastel look of the animation for flesh tones.

Guess they wouldn't want someone to look exactly like the late Sith Lord though.

Ventress was useful as a tool to bring out the anger or darkside of Anakin in the cartoon series. I believe that was her purpose then.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-18-2011, 08:00 PM
We've seen other Zabraks, such as Eeth Koth and Maris Brood and Agen Kolar and Sugi, who don't have Maul-style tattoos. Other previous literature had made plain that Maul's tattoos were Sith tattoos, and that the style is specifically Sith as Legacy made plainer than plain.
But Eeth Koth and Sugi do have tattoos, or skin markings that look like tattoos, albeit not Maul-style ones. Still, it's fairly obvious in the show that the Dathomirian men are the ones with the tattoos; I never said that all Zabraks had them, or had to have them, and neither did the show.

The story of Maul getting his tattoos (Marked) was in Tales, which is classified as part of the lower levels of canon. Back in 2006, Leland Chee said this about Tales:

Consider everything that's not completely outrageous or intentionally comic as S-canon. If it's referenced in another non-+Tales+ source, then elevate it to C-canon.
For the record, the levels are: G-canon (George Lucas), T-canon (television), C-canon (continuity, meaning other comics, books, etc.), S-canon (secondary, meaning older more ridiculous stuff), and non-canon. Long story short, the story was never considered to be official in the first place, but perhaps being referenced in Legacy put it in C-canon?

At any rate, I much prefer that the tattoos come from Maul's tribe. It really doesn't make any sense for the Sith to promote having extravagant facial tattoos if they're trying to hide. :p Thus if someone sees Maul they can think he's a Nightbrother (or some random weird-looking guy) instead of immediately recognizing him as a Sith due to the tattoos and blowing his cover.


He's allowed to, just needs some actual backstory to carry it, or it comes off hollow and contrived only for the needs of the plot.
Congratulations on your film degree, I didn't even know you were going to school for it. ;)

In the 22-minute format, some things can be fleshed out and some things really can't. In the show, we see Savage and Feral practicing sparring when Ventress arrives, and throughout the show we see them talking to each other, showing that they're perhaps closer than the other warriors are to each other. Do we really need to see them palling around outside of this? I don't think so.

Darth Metalmute
01-19-2011, 08:48 AM
In the 22-minute format, some things can be fleshed out and some things really can't. In the show, we see Savage and Feral practicing sparring when Ventress arrives, and throughout the show we see them talking to each other, showing that they're perhaps closer than the other warriors are to each other. Do we really need to see them palling around outside of this? I don't think so.

A thirty second montage would have helped. Maybe with cool, 80's montage music in the background?


No no no, I'm sorry, I cannot let this pass... when has Ventress EVER been useful? :D

Well she did steal Jango's DNA.... oh wait she was stopped.
What about the time she led the invasion of..... nope foiled again.
Oh, I know, remember the time she defeated.... that one clone trooper? He was a commander and everything.

El Chuxter
01-19-2011, 09:35 AM
A thirty second montage would have helped. Maybe with cool, 80's montage music in the background?

I nominate Survivor, Loverboy, or Stan Bush. Kenny Loggins would do in a pinch, but he's not usually associated with training montages.

JimJamBonds
01-19-2011, 12:04 PM
I nominate Survivor, Loverboy, or Stan Bush. Kenny Loggins would do in a pinch, but he's not usually associated with training montages.
There are several songs from the Rock IV soundtrack that would work perfectly, also in Team America: World Police there was a song called "Training Montage" iirc.

Rocketboy
01-19-2011, 02:18 PM
No. The montage should be set to "Waling On Sunshine."

El Chuxter
01-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Wow.

I just watched the second episode of the Darth Maul Returns (Or At Least His Brother Does).

Yeah, wow.

I honestly have seen 5-year-old kids playing with their Star Wars figures come up with better stuff than this. I really tried to go in with an open mind, but, man, this is just bad on a level that I can't believe people are getting paid to write. This made Attack of the Clones look like Citizen Kane. I'm not saying that because I didn't like it (though I didn't). I'm saying that because it was really awful.

I can say with 100% certainty that only one so dooshy as Othniel Marsh would dare create something so wretched, and I wouldn't bother with part 3 if you paid me to.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-19-2011, 06:14 PM
"Awful" doesn't say anything. What was wrong with it?

El Chuxter
01-19-2011, 08:06 PM
Honestly, I just didn't want to regurgitate what's allready been said about it. There was a painful lack of characterization and explanation, the training sequences were indeed video game-ish, and the parts story never clicked together. Why did the Nightsisters, who obviously know how to fly and can mutate these Zabraks to fit their needs, not take over the entire galaxy with a handful of them? Just one can wipe out two armies and two Jedi without cracking a sweat. Heck, they could kill Dooku (if they remember to bring poison--OOPS!) and contact Sidious to take his place. The color palette seemed awfully limited for some reason, even off Dathomir; I thought I was watching Transformers: Prime at first. There's still the whole "Darth Maul lookalike fanwank" thing that's really tough to get past.

Not to mention some painful ignoring of what's been established, which was a minor concern in comparison to the clunky story. The Nightsisters are supposed to use the same Force and think their spells work when they're really just using the Force, so why do they have the ability to create super-Zabraks? (Why didn't Sidious make an army of super-somethings? Or the Jedi?) Why are the Zabraks marked like Maul when those are Sith tattoos? If they keep killing off Zabraks for petty reasons (too short, too fat, beauty mark on the wrong side of his face, likes Casablanca too much), why are there any left? How are they so dang good at flying spaceships all of a sudden, and so comfortable flitting between worlds? (IIRC, a major point in the novel that introduced them was the heroes trying to keep the Nightsisters from going offworld when they discovered it was possible.)

And, really, and this isn't limited only to the Clone Wars cartoons, but I'm so sick of this entire "every Jedi whose name doesn't rhyme with Mannequin, Slobeewan, and Soda is dead meat" thing. A few stuck around for three movies, but, really, when it's time for a Jedi to get killed, has there been one put up a real fight? One? Even Mace looked like a putz to supposedly be the Jedi's greatest warrior. This nameless (?) Master fought a frigging apprentice who was literally fresh off the spaceship and lasted only a matter of seconds--the guy didn't even have a lightsaber, but a vibro-blade that apparently was made of cortosis even though they didn't mention that. It's old. It was old the second time it happened. The Jedi protected the galaxy for a thousand generations, but only two of them were actually worth a crap when it came to fighting? Yeesh.

Darth Metalmute
01-20-2011, 07:55 AM
A thirty second montage would have helped. Maybe with cool, 80's montage music in the background?

I know it's not an 80's song, but the more I think about it, the more I think it should be "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" from the Lion King.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-20-2011, 11:05 AM
Liam Neeson (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/01/20/liam-neeson-star-wars-clone-wars-exclusive/) will be playing Qui-Gon Jinn in two upcoming episodes. EW has a clip.

I do believe I just had a heart attack.

Blue2th
01-20-2011, 11:21 AM
Cool!

I wonder if that's Ilum?

Beast
01-20-2011, 11:53 AM
Liam Neeson (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/01/20/liam-neeson-star-wars-clone-wars-exclusive/) will be playing Qui-Gon Jinn in two upcoming episodes. EW has a clip.

I do believe I just had a heart attack.
That pretty much puts an end to the BS rumors that Liam Neeson wouldn't come back for E3 cause he hated the role. And confirms the truth, that it was due to his Motorcycle Accident. Makes me wonder if when he was in for this, they filmed the planned scene of Ghost Qui-Gon for the end of Episode III for the Blu-Ray release.

El Chuxter
01-20-2011, 12:04 PM
The only rumor I'd ever heard was that he was unavailable for filming on a particular day, which is apparently why Sallah and Short Round don't appear at the end of Indiana Jones and the Fourth Movie That Everyone Pretends Didn't Happen.

DarkJedi5
01-20-2011, 12:06 PM
That pretty much puts an end to the BS rumors that Liam Neeson wouldn't come back for E3 cause he hated the role. And confirms the truth, that it was due to his Motorcycle Accident. Makes me wonder if when he was in for this, they filmed the planned scene of Ghost Qui-Gon for the end of Episode III for the Blu-Ray release.

That would be awesome. That scene at the end just doesn't work that well the way it is and it wouldn't make the film too much longer. Though I do wonder if these appearances aren't meant to be instead of an ROTS reveal because GL sees this all as one continuity. Or something.

Beast
01-20-2011, 12:17 PM
The only rumor I'd ever heard was that he was unavailable for filming on a particular day, which is apparently why Sallah and Short Round don't appear at the end of Indiana Jones and the Fourth Movie That Everyone Pretends Didn't Happen.
A while back there were rumors that the reason he didn't do any new dialogue recordings for EII and return for EIII as planned, was because he had gone all "Alec Guiness" about the series and wouldn't return. I always suspected it was more sad fanboy bologna to try to trash Lucas and the Prequels.

Maerj2000
01-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Liam Neeson (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/01/20/liam-neeson-star-wars-clone-wars-exclusive/) will be playing Qui-Gon Jinn in two upcoming episodes. EW has a clip.

I do believe I just had a heart attack.

For some reason, I find that clip to be really effing cool!

JediTricks
01-20-2011, 06:13 PM
But Eeth Koth and Sugi do have tattoos, or skin markings that look like tattoos, albeit not Maul-style ones. Still, it's fairly obvious in the show that the Dathomirian men are the ones with the tattoos; I never said that all Zabraks had them, or had to have them, and neither did the show.

The story of Maul getting his tattoos (Marked) was in Tales, which is classified as part of the lower levels of canon. Back in 2006, Leland Chee said this about Tales:

For the record, the levels are: G-canon (George Lucas), T-canon (television), C-canon (continuity, meaning other comics, books, etc.), S-canon (secondary, meaning older more ridiculous stuff), and non-canon. Long story short, the story was never considered to be official in the first place, but perhaps being referenced in Legacy put it in C-canon?Congratulations on your Advanced Lucas Apologism degree, I didn't even know you were going to school for it. ;)


At any rate, I much prefer that the tattoos come from Maul's tribe. It really doesn't make any sense for the Sith to promote having extravagant facial tattoos if they're trying to hide. :p Thus if someone sees Maul they can think he's a Nightbrother (or some random weird-looking guy) instead of immediately recognizing him as a Sith due to the tattoos and blowing his cover.It's cheap, now everybody there is a Darth Maul, and Darth Maul is just some random Dathomirian Zabrak who Sidious bought to make into his disposable pitbull. It was bad enough when everybody in Legacy was doing it, but that at least came AFTERWARDS so you could look at it as poseurs, this is entirely different.



Congratulations on your film degree, I didn't even know you were going to school for it. ;)I don't have a film degree, it's obvious to laypeople.


In the 22-minute format, some things can be fleshed out and some things really can't. In the show, we see Savage and Feral practicing sparring when Ventress arrives, and throughout the show we see them talking to each other, showing that they're perhaps closer than the other warriors are to each other. Do we really need to see them palling around outside of this? I don't think so.This episode wasted plenty of time with pointlessness during the trials and before the trials, all it would have taken was 1 sentence to explain it, yet they couldn't even be bothered (according to the Wiki, it's a "little brother" relationship, but nobody here seemed to get it by watching the episode).



Well she did steal Jango's DNA.... oh wait she was stopped.
What about the time she led the invasion of..... nope foiled again.
Oh, I know, remember the time she defeated.... that one clone trooper? He was a commander and everything.Don't forget when she convinced the king of Toydaria to join the CIS... oh wait, that backfired miserably.



The color palette seemed awfully limited for some reason, even off Dathomir; I thought I was watching Transformers: Prime at first. There's still the whole "Darth Maul lookalike fanwank" thing that's really tough to get past.I agree with the limited color thing, and TF:P, I hadn't even put that together before but you are right. And yeah, Maul's brother is fanwankery.


If they keep killing off Zabraks for petty reasons (too short, too fat, beauty mark on the wrong side of his face, likes Casablanca too much), why are there any left?Ha! Totally true! How do they build a society of strong warriors if the next-best guys are all killed off? My buddy Rick just pointed out that Maul himself would have been killed off for being too short.


And, really, and this isn't limited only to the Clone Wars cartoons, but I'm so sick of this entire "every Jedi whose name doesn't rhyme with Mannequin, Slobeewan, and Soda is dead meat" thing. A few stuck around for three movies, but, really, when it's time for a Jedi to get killed, has there been one put up a real fight? One? Even Mace looked like a putz to supposedly be the Jedi's greatest warrior. This nameless (?) Master fought a frigging apprentice who was literally fresh off the spaceship and lasted only a matter of seconds--the guy didn't even have a lightsaber, but a vibro-blade that apparently was made of cortosis even though they didn't mention that. It's old. It was old the second time it happened. The Jedi protected the galaxy for a thousand generations, but only two of them were actually worth a crap when it came to fighting? Yeesh. SO TOTALLY TRUE!



So, in the Qui-Gon video, aside from the continuity issues, there's no blue haze around him the way there was in the OT ghosts, but this is a special place he's at so maybe it matters.

Beast
01-20-2011, 07:02 PM
Yeah, the speculation right now is that Obi-Wan is seeing him during some meditation vision quest thingie.

Since he's in one of the Lightsaber Crystal Caves, at least that is what it appears to be.

So it may not be Qui-Gon manifesting in the force as of yet. Or Obi-Wan doesn't believe that's what it was.

DarkJedi5
01-20-2011, 09:49 PM
This episode wasted plenty of time with pointlessness during the trials and before the trials, all it would have taken was 1 sentence to explain it, yet they couldn't even be bothered (according to the Wiki, it's a "little brother" relationship, but nobody here seemed to get it by watching the episode).


That was the relationship I assumed but it was confusing since they are the "night brothers" or some such thing so I wasn't sure if they called everyone brother like the mormons or something.

JediTricks
01-21-2011, 01:11 AM
That was the relationship I assumed but it was confusing since they are the "night brothers" or some such thing so I wasn't sure if they called everyone brother like the mormons or something.
I thought he was just watching out for a friend, and since they had pushed down the direct-relative angle to Maul it felt like none of these guys were related more directly. And since it wasn't defined, it also came off slightly gay. Nobody else was trying to nobly protect someone else in there, and they all looked like they could be brothers.

The other thing that I think didn't fit was that most of the time, the "little brother" doesn't get chosen in the same league as the "older brother" type.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-21-2011, 02:47 AM
Not to mention some painful ignoring of what's been established, which was a minor concern in comparison to the clunky story. The Nightsisters are supposed to use the same Force and think their spells work when they're really just using the Force, so why do they have the ability to create super-Zabraks? (Why didn't Sidious make an army of super-somethings? Or the Jedi?) Why are the Zabraks marked like Maul when those are Sith tattoos? If they keep killing off Zabraks for petty reasons (too short, too fat, beauty mark on the wrong side of his face, likes Casablanca too much), why are there any left? How are they so dang good at flying spaceships all of a sudden, and so comfortable flitting between worlds? (IIRC, a major point in the novel that introduced them was the heroes trying to keep the Nightsisters from going offworld when they discovered it was possible.)
I didn't address this earlier, but nowhere in the episode is it said or even implied that the Nightsisters used the Force. I know they're Dark Siders in the EU, but it seems that their "magicks" are the source of their power here. I've heard Filoni say that Lucas said that this isn't the Force - or so if it is the Force, it's clearly a very different way of using it than either the Jedi or Sith. And they don't "keep killing Zabraks"; I assume you're referring to when Ventress went to pick out the apprentice. She only killed two of them, and then Feral later - she only beat up or picked on the others to humiliate them. Presumably you have to start with an already-strong warrior for the process to work well.


That pretty much puts an end to the BS rumors that Liam Neeson wouldn't come back for E3 cause he hated the role. And confirms the truth, that it was due to his Motorcycle Accident. Makes me wonder if when he was in for this, they filmed the planned scene of Ghost Qui-Gon for the end of Episode III for the Blu-Ray release.
I thought it was more to the scene itself not working - like they tried it with a temporary voice track, like in animatics or something, and it didn't work.

I sort of doubt they'd finish the ROTS scene at this time, but I guess it's possible. And I think it was just going to be his voice, but I could be wrong.


Congratulations on your Advanced Lucas Apologism degree, I didn't even know you were going to school for it. ;)
It was a Master's degree, actually - that's what the "Mr." in my name actually refers to. Secrets revealed! :p


It's cheap, now everybody there is a Darth Maul, and Darth Maul is just some random Dathomirian Zabrak who Sidious bought to make into his disposable pitbull. It was bad enough when everybody in Legacy was doing it, but that at least came AFTERWARDS so you could look at it as poseurs, this is entirely different.
I've argued for keeping the uniqueness of these characters before, but I still think it works fine here. I still see Maul as one of the higher-end, if not best, warriors from this culture, which doesn't seem to be that huge anyway. But he was always sort of meant to be a disposable pitbull for Sidious, as you say, so I don't think that should really be a surprise here. That's probably why he went with Dooku afterward, who would be able to be further the more nuanced part of the revenge plan than just "kill those guys." If they're going to have other guys who look like Maul - whether or not you agree with them doing that in the first place - as I said, I'd much rather have it be from his culture than have it be markings for a secretive organization that are only ever shown on this one guy (in the films).

Anyway, the planet where Qui-Gon appears to Obi-Wan seems to be Mortis, based on preview materials. It should be quite interesting to see them take on the nature of the Force in a more direct way here.

JEDIpartner
01-21-2011, 08:12 AM
I'm rather curious about the upcoming story arc on Mortis and how Anakin's dark side is explored!

Liam Neeson in CW is gonna rock!!!

autumnsdescent
01-21-2011, 12:36 PM
I didn't address this earlier, but nowhere in the episode is it said or even implied that the Nightsisters used the Force. I know they're Dark Siders in the EU, but it seems that their "magicks" are the source of their power here. I've heard Filoni say that Lucas said that this isn't the Force - or so if it is the Force, it's clearly a very different way of using it than either the Jedi or Sith. And they don't "keep killing Zabraks"; I assume you're referring to when Ventress went to pick out the apprentice. She only killed two of them, and then Feral later - she only beat up or picked on the others to humiliate them. Presumably you have to start with an already-strong warrior for the process to work well.


I thought it was more to the scene itself not working - like they tried it with a temporary voice track, like in animatics or something, and it didn't work.

I sort of doubt they'd finish the ROTS scene at this time, but I guess it's possible. And I think it was just going to be his voice, but I could be wrong.


It was a Master's degree, actually - that's what the "Mr." in my name actually refers to. Secrets revealed! :p


I've argued for keeping the uniqueness of these characters before, but I still think it works fine here. I still see Maul as one of the higher-end, if not best, warriors from this culture, which doesn't seem to be that huge anyway. But he was always sort of meant to be a disposable pitbull for Sidious, as you say, so I don't think that should really be a surprise here. That's probably why he went with Dooku afterward, who would be able to be further the more nuanced part of the revenge plan than just "kill those guys." If they're going to have other guys who look like Maul - whether or not you agree with them doing that in the first place - as I said, I'd much rather have it be from his culture than have it be markings for a secretive organization that are only ever shown on this one guy (in the films).

Anyway, the planet where Qui-Gon appears to Obi-Wan seems to be Mortis, based on preview materials. It should be quite interesting to see them take on the nature of the Force in a more direct way here.

This whole argument hadn't occurred to me since I read all the background info on this and the upcoming story arc in the last two issues of the Star Wars Insider. But yeah, I can see how all these questions would come up if you hadn't read those articles in the magazine.

From what I understood in the Insider, the Zabraks aren't native to Dathomir, but those living there are a tribe subservient to the Night Sisters who are force sensitive and use the dark side as "magic."

The upcoming story arc after the whole Savage / Maul thing (which is interesting, since the Insider Magazine claims that Savage goes into exile to complete his training with Maul in the outer rim at the end of tonight's episode) is supposed to be about the planet Mortis, which is supposedly a trap for Skywalker. It's all weird IMO. Insider claims some massive plot twist in the Mortis story that will "reshape how we view the Force"... whatever. At least it's entertaining and keeps Star Wars current enough for Hasbro to continue making product for a while longer...

El Chuxter
01-21-2011, 01:01 PM
I didn't address this earlier, but nowhere in the episode is it said or even implied that the Nightsisters used the Force. I know they're Dark Siders in the EU, but it seems that their "magicks" are the source of their power here. I've heard Filoni say that Lucas said that this isn't the Force - or so if it is the Force, it's clearly a very different way of using it than either the Jedi or Sith. And they don't "keep killing Zabraks"; I assume you're referring to when Ventress went to pick out the apprentice. She only killed two of them, and then Feral later - she only beat up or picked on the others to humiliate them. Presumably you have to start with an already-strong warrior for the process to work well.

The Nightsisters have been around almost since the EU was kickstarted back in 1990 or 1991. They've always used the Force; their ancestors just got really confused at some point in history and thought that it was magic and that their chants were what caused things to happen. They've never been portrayed as being able to genetically modify anything, particularly anything that's already fully-grown, but, then again, they've never been portrayed as having electric lights, either, which seem to be the only source of light on Dathomir.

You're probably right about her not killing more Zabraks. But it wasn't especially clear, and she had no reason to specifically kill two and not the others, so I'm sure I'm not the only person to make that mistake.

JediTricks
01-21-2011, 03:58 PM
I've argued for keeping the uniqueness of these characters before, but I still think it works fine here."I know I said I totally disagree with this sort of thing, but now I feel exactly the opposite." I wonder how you'll feel later on down the road when you've viewed the series with a little more distance. I don't know if you're being objective or just digging it as a new series and everything it does is great.


I still see Maul as one of the higher-end, if not best, warriors from this culture, which doesn't seem to be that huge anyway. But he was always sort of meant to be a disposable pitbull for Sidious, as you say, so I don't think that should really be a surprise here. Oh yeah, that was the best part of Episode I, it really made for a better film when that part was shown, don'tcha think? Or wait, that was not even remotely in the film, and the backstory for Maul showed him to be groomed from the youngest age to be Sidious' apprentice - I knew I got those 2 mixed up.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-21-2011, 04:28 PM
"I know I said I totally disagree with this sort of thing, but now I feel exactly the opposite." I wonder how you'll feel later on down the road when you've viewed the series with a little more distance. I don't know if you're being objective or just digging it as a new series and everything it does is great.
Too bad your computer evidently crashed before you could read the end of my paragraph:

If they're going to have other guys who look like Maul - whether or not you agree with them doing that in the first place - as I said, I'd much rather have it be from his culture than have it be markings for a secretive organization that are only ever shown on this one guy (in the films).
And I never said everything it does is great. Does having Maul be the only guy in the history of the entire galaxy to look like that make him unique? Yes, of course. But is that plausible? No, not at all. All I'm saying is that, if they're going to expand on him and his appearance, I prefer this version of events to Legacy by a huge margin. Part of it might be that I hate the way the Legacy comics handled the Sith, and I'm glad that they're basically negating that here. I don't know.

As has been well established, on the whole, I like this series and you don't, at least not most of the time. So I also wonder if you just bag on the series just to do so, focusing on tiny details and rarely looking at the whole in the context of everything that's come before and everything that will come after.


Oh yeah, that was the best part of Episode I, it really made for a better film when that part was shown, don'tcha think? Or wait, that was not even remotely in the film, and the backstory for Maul showed him to be groomed from the youngest age to be Sidious' apprentice - I knew I got those 2 mixed up.
In the first part of this statement, you complain that I extrapolated from something not directly in the films to draw my own conclusion about something, and then you go on to do the exact same. :p Maul is so barely even in TPM that we really know nothing of his backstory just from that film. I'm fully aware of that, and I never said otherwise. Sidious tells him he has been well-trained, and that's literally it. That's all we have to go off of. I never said any of that was in the film; it's just my own interpretation based off of TPM and this series, and I positioned it as such in that post.

It's only now that we're getting the official, Lucas-inspired backstory for Darth Maul, by way of the Nightbrothers story. Was he trained from an early age? I don't know, but that certainly doesn't preclude him from being, as I said, "one of the higher-end, if not best, warriors from this culture." Clearly, as I said earlier, Marked isn't in play anymore, so I don't even think it's safe to assume Maul was trained by Sidious from childhood. For all we know, Sidious killed Plagueis in the middle of the night and went to Dathomir to recruit Maul the next morning (though he likely did it some time before that), still training him for several years before the events of TPM. Or something completely different. Again, we don't explicitly know, and I don't know if we ever will. I'm only saying things as I see them, which is obviously different from how you do, but it doesn't make either one of us inherently wrong or right.

Maerj2000
01-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Well at least we finally got some action in this episode, good job!

The preview for next week's looks really, really good. The old statue warrior guy, the weird energy chick, and then what will become of Ahsoka. It looks like it may be the Qui Gon episode as well, I'm really interested in this one.

Darth Metalmute
01-21-2011, 08:42 PM
I enjoyed it as well. Although.....

Is Dooku's command ship weaponless? With the banking clan as their sponsor I don't think they worried about paying by the laser, so why didn't Dooku command his droids to shoot both Ventress' pod and Savages ship? And too the point, if it's that easy to land an unidentified ship on Dooku's command ship, why don't the Jedi rent a freighter and load it with Jedi and take Dooku out?

But hey, at least they didn't give Savage a double bladed lightsaber.

jedibear
01-21-2011, 09:14 PM
I dunno. I keep watching this show and once in a while, it has some moments that are really good and other times...it just seems like it's trying too hard and we can see the strain.

I get a little spoiler-ish here...

This whole Nightsisters thing...ugh. Witches and sorcery and magic talisman? Where's Star Wars? It looked pretty, but...it just wasn't engaging at all. And...Darth Maul? Alive? Really? Is there nothing this show won't take and suck the mystery out of? I wish Lucas would've kept Darth Maul in the same "don't touch this" zone that Palpatine and Yoda (any "early years/origins stuff) are in and leave a little to the imagination.

And next week...Qui-Gon? I'll withhold any outrage until I see the context he's presented in but...

I'm not going to be a bit surprised when this show does the ultimate JTS and comes up with some story conceit to have Ashoka or some other CW character somehow meeting Luke Skywalker or Princess Leia. Or we see young Boba Fett meet young Han Solo and they share some adventure where they go from fast friends to bitter enemies. Seem ridiculous? Hey, I think so too, but don't laugh...at the rate this show is going, nothing seems out of bounds...


The animation just keeps getting better and better. The action is superbly choreographed and there are some great character moments. Just wish the story-telling veered a little less towards "Wouldn't it be Cool if so-and-so showed up...?" Just seems a little lazy to me...

Blue2th
01-21-2011, 09:43 PM
Darth Maul alive huh?

If true I'm interested in seeing how this one will play out. They're going to have to do a flashback of what happened to him after being cut in half, falling down that shaft me thinks.
I'm curious to see him with his cyborg legs though.

His EU story is iffy anyways. http://members.shaw.ca/david.p.z.888/star_wars/darth_maul.html
Though I think it's ok that Lars finally gets him in the end.

Obviously he'd be bitter and wants revenge, but he's half the man he used to be. :Ponder:

JimJamBonds
01-21-2011, 10:48 PM
Another "meh" show imho. So Maul's brother "just passed the first test" and he is kicking both Anners and Obbers butt? I mean, he schooled them two!?!?! WTF!?!?!

The ONE moment I thought was interesting and I even said out loud 'woo' was during the three way saber fight. That was interesting.

Maul still alive!?!?! Worst idea ever!!!

El Chuxter
01-21-2011, 10:53 PM
Is Maul in one piece, or does he have staple marks?

I know some (JJL :D) will think I'm being dishonest, but I've remembered Lucas gave us three great (OT), three good (TPM & the Ewok movies), and two decent (AOTC & ROTS) Star Wars films, as well as three great Indy movies. I've held out the hope that he's been listening to bad advice and still has greatness in him.

But if he green-lit Maul surviving in something that's supposed to be canon, I have lost all respect for modern-day George Lucas and have to conclude he went irreparably insane at some point in the past.

I'd say it's the worst idea ever, but that seems like an understatement. I'd heard rumors, and hoped they were jokes.

:cry:

Rocketboy
01-21-2011, 11:07 PM
God, I wish the storytelling could be even half as good as the visuals...

As the visuals improve, the storytelling declines.

El Chuxter
01-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Dear Jude Watson:

We at Lucasfilm regret that we cannot allow you to write books that make our esteemed founder and president look inferior in comparison. Please clean out your desk and leave the building. (Do not reply that you are freelance. Clean out your damned desk. I don't care if it's in your extra bedroom!)

A cartoon completely undoing everything you ever established about Darth Maul, making him something of an interesting character instead of a walking visual effect, will be airing shortly. We have contacted the authorities to confiscate and burn all existing copies of The Darth Maul Journal so as to eliminate any trace of its existence. Do not mention this story to anyone ever again, or you will learn the true reason why Samurai Jack remains unfinished, if you catch my drift.

Thank you, and we hope you burn in Hell,
Rick McCallum
Chief Fluffer to George Lucas

PS: George's daughter will be writing said cartoon. Why? Because f*@$ you is why.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-21-2011, 11:59 PM
Well, at least nobody is being melodramatic. :rolleyes: :p Genndy's making a new show on Cartoon Network, so I really don't know why you're implying Lucas stopped him from making shows.

As has been said, visually, it was incredible. The lightsaber duels were fantastic. I liked seeing Savage's training - it was a nice mirror to the ESB Jedi training. The episode guide said that the Jedi would have learned the name of Darth Maul from the captured Trade Federation guys, which makes sense; I had wondered previously if they knew who he was. But the "I thought they were from Iridonia?" part was a bit clunky, even though many people here said they wanted some kind of explanation about it.

I'm still not sure what to think about Maul being alive, though . . . is Mother Talzin lying? Is that actually Maul, and not someone who just looks like him? I could see the Nightsisters reviving him through their magicks, or something. I'm mainly interested in seeing how it plays out, and how it will affect the dynamic between the Sith.

It was sad to see King Katuunko eat it, though. :cry:

El Chuxter
01-22-2011, 12:08 AM
It's called humor, JJL. :p I don't honestly think Lucas killed Tartakovsky and keeps his corpse mounted on a wall at Skywalker Ranch.

Funny thing is, with the resurrection of Darth Maul (even if it is a red herring) being the final straw on the mountain of things like Ahsoka and Legacy, I can finally just say "to hell with all the 'bad' Star Wars." I feel like I can watch or read anything that sounds interesting and say, "Okay, that was amusing, but that didn't happen," and forget it entirely.

I really do find it to be weak storytelling, and know that, at one point, at least, George Lucas is (or was) capable of infinitely better. If anything, he should've pressed his daughter harder rather than having his crew film the first draft she scrawled on a napkin while hung over in a Denny's.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-22-2011, 12:14 AM
It's called humor, JJL. :p I don't honestly think Lucas killed Tartakovsky and keeps his corpse mounted on a wall at Skywalker Ranch.
Well, I can't tell sometimes. You're so over the top all the time that it's hard to tell what's real and what's not. ;)


Funny thing is, with the resurrection of Darth Maul (even if it is a red herring) being the final straw on the mountain of things like Ahsoka and Legacy, I can finally just say "to hell with all the 'bad' Star Wars." I feel like I can watch or read anything that sounds interesting and say, "Okay, that was amusing, but that didn't happen," and forget it entirely.
Welcome to what I've always been saying about continuity. :D Well, I've said other things about it as well; can't be too clear, or JT will get angry with me again.


I really do find it to be weak storytelling, and know that, at one point, at least, George Lucas is (or was) capable of infinitely better. If anything, he should've pressed his daughter harder rather than having his crew film the first draft she scrawled on a napkin while hung over in a Denny's.
He comes up with the stories. Originally, it sounds like George brought up having Maul here, with Filoni saying that would've been difficult with, y'know, the being cut in half. So it actually seems like Savage is a compromise from what would have been.

dr_evazan22
01-22-2011, 09:48 AM
It's called humor, JJL. :p I don't honestly think Lucas killed Tartakovsky and keeps his corpse mounted on a wall at Skywalker Ranch.




I heard that, at Skywalker Ranch, GL had Jabba's throne room rebuilt and is now using it as his office. And that he has Genndy mounted on the wall next to the Taun Taun head, from the torso up. He was mounted with wire armature, so that when he tired of one pose he could just repose him.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-22-2011, 10:23 AM
There's a galactic-scale war going on, right? Do any planets and command ships have defensive measures? A Sith/Nightsister apprentice/revenge seeker, a magic-created Zabrak Dathomiri warrior, and two Jedi fly into a Sepratist ship... it's a bad joke intro., but really, no shields to shoot out? The "hidden" Nightsisters sure seem easy to find for outsiders? Toydaria's landing platform security is a few winged monke- ur, warriors?

I'll mirror the previous posts about how visually strong this one was, and how frustrating the story was to watch. Obi-Wan and Mace even tell the audience why what they've read in the past is "different" now. I felt taken into The Force Unleashed a few times when SaVAHge used his powers.

I would like to see how Aksoka is handled; I expect her to end up as a bartender at Mos Eisley to watch over Anakin's son... friend. :eek: Or maybe something "better" than that? :rolleyes:

JimJamBonds
01-22-2011, 02:18 PM
Is Maul in one piece, or does he have staple marks?I remember somebody posting a rough outline for E II and in it Maul is alive using a hover chair and "more powerful with the dark side then ever. Holy crap somebody dug up that old thread and wrote that episode for CW! :shock:

[quote]But if he green-lit Maul surviving in something that's supposed to be canon, I have lost all respect for modern-day George Lucas and have to conclude he went irreparably insane at some point in the past. I'm thinking he went "Krusty the clown." Yeah sounds good, yup great idea etc.
I'd say it's the worst idea ever, but that seems like an understatement. I'd heard rumors, and hoped they were jokes. :cry:Que comic book guy from the Simpsons.

sonofsokol
01-22-2011, 02:44 PM
I thought Savage's "Force Unleashed" moves were awesome.

It seems to me that either Count Dooku is an amazing teacher and Yoda is a crappy teacher or Luke was just a REALLY crappy student...

I was also hoping to see a bit more of the Clone Commandos...

Maerj2000
01-22-2011, 06:08 PM
For everyone who is getting upset about Darth Maul in Clone Wars,

***Possible spoilers***



Based on the trailer for the next episode, I would conclude that the Darth Maul we saw was a spirit. Since they are going to a place that is a nexus between worlds or something like that and Qui Gon can appear, then logic would suggest that Darth Maul may be able to appear in a place like that as well. Savage is going to seek this place out to find his brother while Obi Wan and Anakin are trying to get Savage. Thats how and why we see those characters. I may be wrong but thats what I would conclude based off of the evidence.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-22-2011, 08:03 PM
That's what I was thinking as well. Everyone on different sites is drawing so many conclusions, thinking we're definitively going to see the cyborg Maul from the comics. I'm not sure if the Mortis trilogy will be directly died into the Nightsisters trilogy, but it's entirely possible, and makes more sense than them saying, "Oh, yeah, Darth Maul's just been chillin' in the Outer Rim for the last 12 years, no biggie." I've thought that this means Maul is still alive, but that's just one possibility.

I also don't think Qui-Gon is necessarily a spirit like we see in the films. From a visual standpoint, he has a concentration of light that follows him around his upper half, which is different. Based on the previews, it looks like Mortis is a bizarre planet, so I'm not quite sure what to think yet.

At any rate, this note was posted on Dave Filoni's Facebook last night:

Hello friends

A long standing secret has been revealed! By now you have all heard that Liam Neeson has been kind enough to return to the world of Star Wars and reprise his role as Qui-Gon Jinn. I am very greatful that he took time out from his incredibly busy schedule to appear on The Clone Wars, and very thankful for everyone at Lucasfilm that helped make his appearance happen. I understand that Qui-Gon’s appearance in The Clone Wars has many implications, and that some of you are asking “how can this be ” especially in light of the scene between Obi Wan and Yoda at the end of Revenge of the Sith where they speak about Qui-Gon. These upcoming episodes, more than any other to date, will spark curiosity and discussion. I only ask that you be patient and watch them. I look forward to hearing from you after they air. For now trust me when I say Christian Taylor (writer) and I, along with George Lucas, are very aware of the continuity surrounding Qui-Gon Jinn. George in particular, is especially conscious of it.

Let’s not forget that tonight marks the conclusion of the Nightsisters trilogy. Please tune in and enjoy what I think is an exciting finish to this arc. As I’ve said, the excitement will not stop there, and there are many surprises left for you this season. Qui-Gon Jinn is just the beginning.



The Force will be with you… always



Dave

Maerj2000
01-22-2011, 08:17 PM
Yeah, this planet has some real weird Force thing going on and apparently it allows one to commune with the dead. Not like the spirits we see in the films but on another level, like entering their dimension or having them enter ours?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-22-2011, 08:18 PM
It could even just be a vision, like Luke's on Dagobah, hence Qui-Gon's line, "I am here because you are here." Though I have a feeling it's more than that.

jedibear
01-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Well...Dave's comments are interesting. Hey...it guarantees one thing...we'll all be watching to see what's going on, and isn't that the bottom line here for a producer? You want folks to watch your show and nothing helps more than a little controversy...

I'll hope for the best. I'm just not entirely convinced yet..the show has never looked better...but I'm still feeling stung (as a viewer/fan) from the way Mandolore was handled by this show. And while the young Boba story was interesting enough, what happened? Got him off with a banging start on this show and BAM! Gone without a trace...

Gotta say, as cool as it was to see the RC's...I was relieved that it was just a cameo.

But when it comes to Qui-Gon...

Neeson was one of my favorite things about Episode One and I really like the character. I don't want to see him turned into something lame for the sake of some two-minute shock value for this show.

We'll see...

Rocketboy
01-22-2011, 09:38 PM
I doubt this next arc has anything to do with the Nightsisters arc. There's nothing in the previews that would give that connection. If either Opress or Maul were going to appear in the next arc, I'm sure they'd have been featured in the preview (Opress at the very least).
I'm guessing that the Maul/Opress story won't be continued until the final few episodes of the season, probably ending with a stupid cliffhanger.

Darth Metalmute
01-22-2011, 11:09 PM
Anyone think it's odd that the head nightsister can make a glass appear out of thin air, but she has a cracked crystal ball?

I honestly don't think it Maul, although I will admit that's probably more me hoping and praying to my nightsister overlord. I think that's why the glass was cracked, so the vision would be blurred and we would assume it is. It will probably be some entirely new Zabrak named Malicious Encumber who uses a double bladed lightsaber.

DarkJedi5
01-23-2011, 02:12 AM
Is it Maul, isn't it Maul? I dunno. What I do know is that it looked a lot like him (even had the little diamond shapes down the bridge of his nose). What I also know is that the episode guide (http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/guide/episode314.html) on sw.com (scroll all they way down to the last but under "secrets revealed") seems to really want to make us all think it's Darth Maul.

autumnsdescent
01-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Is it Maul, isn't it Maul? I dunno. What I do know is that it looked a lot like him (even had the little diamond shapes down the bridge of his nose). What I also know is that the episode guide (http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/guide/episode314.html) on sw.com (scroll all they way down to the last but under "secrets revealed") seems to really want to make us all think it's Darth Maul.


The Star Wars Insider Magazine (Issue 122, page 9) claims it's Maul:

"Sent to capture King Katuunko of Toydaria, Savage Opress is confronted by Anakin and Obi-wan. Although Opress escapes, he displeases Dooku, leading to brutal combat. Then Ventress strikes. Unable to best the powerful Dooku, the two escape, but there is one last shock to come, when Mother Talzin reveals Opress has a brother, living in exile in the Outer Rim, who will complete his training: Darth Maul!"

Beast
01-23-2011, 03:56 PM
I sense it's not going to be what they're hyping or making it seem. ;)

Bel-Cam Jos
01-23-2011, 09:17 PM
I'm thinking one word: clone. And perhaps his clone-induced insanity will make him one wild and ca-razy guy!

Blue2th
01-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Looked like Maul to me. Whether or not it's his spirit like Qui-Gon or him in the flesh with his Cyborg legs or an earlier hover chair remains to be seen.

I see no reason why it couldn't be him in the flesh. Though he was mortally wounded, other characters have been put back together from even less of their organic parts like Grievous. What is he? Just some organs and a brain, spinal cord. The Bomarr Monks were just brains in bubble attached to a spider borg.

Even Vader is "more machine than man"

I don't see how Maul being alive messes with anything. Though he would have to have been incapacitated for a while, otherwise he would have wanted revenge and carried it out on either Obi-Wan (which he attempts before Owen Lars shoots him in the head...cyborgs get finished off by blasters it seems) or revenge on Sidious for abandoning him, or more likely afraid to show his face to his master because of his failure. Hiding out as it were.