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View Full Version : The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis Cancelled!



Tycho
04-03-2007, 05:21 AM
Rebelscum reported (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Jedi_Journals_Bookshelf_Novel_Canceled_104710.asp) that the novel that was to be penned by my favorite Star Wars writer James Luceno (Labrynth of Evil, etc.) was to be cancelled.

I have mixed feelings about this.

At first, I was terribly disappointed, as Luceno is the best there is:

Labrynth of Evil - Mace Windu
Cloak of Deception - Qui-Gon Jinn
Hero's Trial - Han Solo
Jedi Eclipse - Luke Skywalker
Dark Lord - Darth Vader

There is so much he's done that reigns for the quality in the Expanded Universe. I looked forward to him telling the story of the Young Palpatine at last.

I am very disturbed that something might have happened to him, or his relationship with Del Rey or Lucasfilm. I hope that nothing like this is the case, but really want to know what is occuring with him and why the book was cancelled. Worse than anything above would be that sales of Star Wars books have dramatically declined."Darth Bane: Path of Destruction" was one of the best books I've read in recent times. Doing the "Legacy" series might or might not constitute a marketing success. Of that I'm not certain. But I buy those books as well, as I did with Timothy Zahn's latest SW entry: "Allegiance."

But on a second look, that Luceno might have surrendered this project, leaves open a great opportunity. The subject matter of Palpatine's training as a Sith Lord and his rise to prominence on Naboo, King Veruna's removal from office, Amidala's should-have-been-suspect-election, and everything that transpired before that, would be my ideal subject to write about myself. I would pattern a story very similarly to the historical fiction novel I'm writing now. I would have to be invited to write for Star Wars, as I've attempted to "break in" before to no satisfying result. However, my very "adult" novel I'm writing now is not a typical Del Rey friendly title (as they favor all-audiences accessible science fiction / fantasy) and I'm crafting something closer to American Psycho that's very "NC-17."

But Darth Plagueis would be my dream Star Wars subject matter and I'm well-versed in all the Expanded Universe matters that relate to the Sith Lord, including his prior contact with Durge. I also am clear about how I'd introduce the future Darth Maul as he begins his Sith training.

Yes indeed I have a very clear idea of what I'd want to do with Palpatine. It's a pity that we could never find out what Luceno would have done, but I'm not half bad myself. I'll tell you this stirred my ambition again as it's 2:30 in the A.M. and I'm up working on my novel again!

pbarnard
04-03-2007, 10:32 AM
One of two things, either Lucas himself stepped in because he doesn't know where the TV show is going to go, or this was the long planned April Fools Joke for the folks at starwars.com.

Rocketboy
04-03-2007, 10:53 AM
In any case, that is one less bit of EU!
:thumbsup:

El Chuxter
04-03-2007, 11:26 AM
Sad. This was one I was really looking forward to. Given that I stopped bothering with the travesty that is Legacy, and that appears to be all they're putting out now, I guess that's more of my money they won't be getting. :rolleyes:

Tycho
04-03-2007, 11:35 AM
In any case, that is one less bit of EU!
:thumbsup:

Why do you hate the EU so much?

Do you read any books at all?

What is that much greater about George Lucas? (If anything) than real published authors (Lucas is basically a production manager, concept creater, passive movie director).

Don't you get bored with 6 episodes and that's it?


One of two things, either Lucas himself stepped in because he doesn't know where the TV show is going to go, or this was the long planned April Fools Joke for the folks at starwars.com.

Doubtful on both counts: Sue Rostoni posted on March 27, and indicated a full schedule for publication, as well as the fact that James Luceno will still be contracted with by Del Rey, though for Star Wars, we don't know (likely though). If it was an April Fool's joke, it would be early, and lacked the required "Adventures of JarJar Binks" or "Exploits of the Ice Cream Maker Guy" titles that someone on a lot of drugs might find funny.

Furthermore, by ROTS, Palpatine indicated that Darth Plagueis was dead for sure, but it's clearly presumable that he died long before TPM. The two TV shows (I've heard before that there could be 3, but attributed it to Lucas or someone else mis-speaking, moreso than concrete plans of any kind) are to be Clone Wars (CGI) and post-ROTS. For the latter, Darth Plageuis would have no conceivable bearing unless they touch on Vader's training, which I was led to believe they would not be. That would also bring Ian McDiarmid to television, and I'm not sure the Shakespearean actor / producer would go there. The Darth Plageuis stuff would have to be done in flashback because of the time frame. While that could be interesting, I was under the impression that the series would be about second-string characters, not principals.

Next, during the Clone Wars, it would be a huge revelation if we were to find out that Darth Plagueis was actually still alive and Palpatine kills him just prior to events in ROTS. For that to work, Palpatine must still be the actual apprentice. It is the Sith way for masters to use their apprentices as their primary underlings. It was obvious how Palpatine used Darth Maul. Dooku stood a chance of betraying Palpatine and becoming the leader of the galaxy were the Separatists successful. But wouldn't it be another surprise if Dooku wasn't actually the apprentice, but only was allowed to think that he was? In any case, it was brilliant work on Palpatine's part to learn his Master created Anakin, probably to be the ultimate Sith Lord, then Palpatine co-opts Anakin and uses him to kill Dooku, while Palpatine kills Plagueis, and sets up the situation where he will own Anakin as his apprentice (though the Vader accident on Mustafar gives him a lot less than what he bargained for, until he learns he can possibly replace Vader with Luke).

There's some cool things you can twist out of the Sith. Anyway, that wasn't the story idea I'd run with, but one viable alternative.

pbarnard
04-03-2007, 12:04 PM
Why do you hate the EU so much?


Furthermore, by ROTS, Palpatine indicated that Darth Plagueis was dead for sure, but it's clearly presumable that he died long before TPM. The two TV shows (I've heard before that there could be 3, but attributed it to Lucas or someone else mis-speaking, moreso than concrete plans of any kind) are to be Clone Wars (CGI) and post-ROTS. For the latter, Darth Plageuis would have no conceivable bearing unless they touch on Vader's training, which I was led to believe they would not be. That would also bring Ian McDiarmid to television, and I'm not sure the Shakespearean actor / producer would go there. The Darth Plageuis stuff would have to be done in flashback because of the time frame. While that could be interesting, I was under the impression that the series would be about second-string characters, not principals.

Next, during the Clone Wars, it would be a huge revelation if we were to find out that Darth Plagueis was actually still alive and Palpatine kills him just prior to events in ROTS. For that to work, Palpatine must still be the actual apprentice. It is the Sith way for masters to use their apprentices as their primary underlings. It was obvious how Palpatine used Darth Maul. Dooku stood a chance of betraying Palpatine and becoming the leader of the galaxy were the Separatists successful. But wouldn't it be another surprise if Dooku wasn't actually the apprentice, but only was allowed to think that he was? In any case, it was brilliant work on Palpatine's part to learn his Master created Anakin, probably to be the ultimate Sith Lord, then Palpatine co-opts Anakin and uses him to kill Dooku, while Palpatine kills Plagueis, and sets up the situation where he will own Anakin as his apprentice (though the Vader accident on Mustafar gives him a lot less than what he bargained for, until he learns he can possibly replace Vader with Luke).

There's some cool things you can twist out of the Sith. Anyway, that wasn't the story idea I'd run with, but one viable alternative.

No, but it limits a flashback episode where Palpy in some capacity can reflect on his former master.

People who hate the EU should have to go through what any other writer goes through: rejection, editing and revising. Most of the stuff you think you can put out that would be better would be torn to shreds by an editing process and shatter your fragile ego. That and since most out there aren't published, they would never be picked up by Lucasbooks anyways since their second rule after having a literary agent is to be previous published.

Rocketboy
04-03-2007, 12:56 PM
Why do you hate the EU so much?First of all: The killed Chewie by hitting him with a rock (yes, I know it was a moon/planet/grapefruit/whatever, but that doesn't make it any less stupid). Second: almost all of it is so amazingly f*cking boring.


Do you read any books at all?I love reading books. But if you meant SW books, I have made the mistake of reading several:
*Shadows of the Empire (which many people don't like) is the only one I really like and I felt truly captured the feeling of the movies. Just started reading it for probably the 7th or 8th time the other day.
*Dark Lord was just OK. Everyone character other than Vader was boring.
*The prequel novelizations were bland, especially the PT ones - it felt like 2/3 of each book was Anakin whining about Padme (not that I blame him. Giggity!). ROTS was especially annoying because of the EU carp like Ventress being mentioned repeatedly.
*Tales of Jabba's Palace and Tales of the Bounty Hunters were fun reads and they were also pretty stupid (IG-88 and Dengar's stories for example).
*I still do read Last of the Jedi for some reason. I guess I want to see how it ends. I liked it up until Obi-Wan was no longer the focus.
*I couldn't even finish Heir to the Empire. Very overrated, IMO.
*Rogue Planet and The Approaching Storm were really bad also.
*The Legacy comic isn't too bad but it can be tough to follow because I didn't follow the events of the post-Jedi novels (even though Dark Horse said it wasn't necessary - I disagree).


What is that much greater about George Lucas? (If anything) than real published authors (Lucas is basically a production manager, concept creater, passive movie director).The movies are fun. The books (in general) are not.


Don't you get bored with 6 episodes and that's it?More and more the answer is yes. I even was bored with Clone Wars (especially volume 2). And as much as I liked the PT, I'm getting bored with them (and most of Star Wars in general), so I guess it's almost 3 episodes and that's it.

Tycho
04-03-2007, 01:54 PM
Rocketboy - very good and honest answers. I want to continue the discussion with you with 10 questions. Note it's a discussion, not really an argument, but you also know I love to debate things and can't stand leaving any stoned unturned. It's just me.

1) So did you continue reading NJO after Chewie was killed? A lot of it was pretty drawn out, but things like Anakin Solo's death had major impact on the characters and made it continue to fascinate me.

2) Also, do you think that these characters, in their early 20's (save for Han in his early 30's) in the OT, could continue living out their lives as dangerously as they did in the flims for another 20 years or so, and none of them get themselves killed? In my opinion, killing somebody was realistic.

3) Also, two trilogies set a pattern for Star Wars focusing on characters in their early 20's and early 30's (Luke, Leia, Han), (Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan). Do you think it would hold the readers' interest to focus on 40-50-somethings in the future (again, with no tragedy ever really touching them?)

4) Would you have preferred there being no continuity? That is a new story about Luke in his 20's published every 3-6 months or so - and none of it every really "counting?"

5) Would you have preferred Star Wars just died after 6 films?

6) If you owned Star Wars, would you like it if somebody like Tim Zahn could come along and write something a large segment of fans would like, and have it pay you royalties from his sales, just because you owned it? (Not having to do any work yourself?) So would you allow there to be an EU if you were on the receiving end of the paycheck (and it even spawns action figures, and further fandom and discussion of your original movies)?

7) What would've made it more exciting in your opinion? Did you read


Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Labrynth of Evil
Cloak of Deception
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
Han Solo - Paradise Snare, Hutt Gambit, Rebel Dawn?


These are some of my recommendations and I think they are better than Tim Zahn's Heir to the Empire stuff in many respects.

I did not care too much for the Tales Of format, though some stories were quite good but included in an anthology with some of the worst ones as well.

8) Yes, Rogue Planet and Approaching Storm were not highlights of the EU at all. I read everything eventually. I like to read and I love new Star Wars instead of the same old movies (they're nice to come back to when I'm in the mood of course). But why not take the opinion of which ones are the good ones from your fellow friends on the board. I'd never recommend you read anything by Barbara Hambly or Vonda McIntyre for example! But James Luceno rocks (though Dark Lord was not his best outing).

9) If you got to write for Star Wars, do you understand that you can't kill main characters for the most part? Darth Vader dies in ROTJ and nothing changes there. So if you want to tell an interesting story, you'd need to invent Roan Shryne (Dark Lord) and have your readers care about the Jedi before killing him off or extending a series about him should you wish to do sequels were he to get a fan following (like Quinlan Vos)? So what's your take on whether Roan Shryne, who anything could happen to, or Darth Vader, is more interesting for a novel if you were writing it?

10) What role do you see Star Wars playing for you in the future? If you get bored of new stuff, will you sell everything and "quit?" Will you keep what you have, because it once brought you joy and has (and may have in the future) value for you, but you don't need to continue the obsession? Will you instead continue to rapidly buy everything (maybe even get one of those mailboxes :D ) because it's a habit now and you literally cannot wait for Mace Windu's 17th resculpt from Hasbro? Is finding and collecting more fun for you, or is indulging in the fantasy somehow (video games, building scenes with loose figures, the ocassional comic or book)? What do you think?

There are no right and wrong answers. I just would like to hear your thoughts (Slicker's too some day, as he is very anti-EU himself and might've just read the wrong books - I'd be discouraged too if all I had to go on was Approaching Storm, Rogue Planet, and so forth). Those books were really hard-marketed and unfortunately the better ones weren't that I'm aware of. I remember an endcap in the book department of Target pushing Rogue Planet. I bet many people who'd never read a SW book went for that, and should they have not been able to tolerate it, never would have ventured into Labrynth of Evil - to their mistake.

So bonus quetion: don't you think it makes a difference which books you read?

El Chuxter
04-03-2007, 02:14 PM
Check out the Medstar duology, RB. Even if you don't like it, Barriss is really hot on the cover to the second one.

Droid
04-03-2007, 02:42 PM
I'll play along even though I am not Rocketboy.


Rocketboy - very good and honest answers. I want to continue the discussion with you with 10 questions. Note it's a discussion, not really an argument, but you also know I love to debate things and can't stand leaving any stoned unturned. It's just me.

1) So did you continue reading NJO after Chewie was killed? A lot of it was pretty drawn out, but things like Anakin Solo's death had major impact on the characters and made it continue to fascinate me.

I didn't read any of the NJO because I knew they killed Chewbacca, a decision I really disagreed with.


2) Also, do you think that these characters, in their early 20's (save for Han in his early 30's) in the OT, could continue living out their lives as dangerously as they did in the flims for another 20 years or so, and none of them get themselves killed? In my opinion, killing somebody was realistic.

I think that it may as well have said, "And they lived happily ever after" at the end of Return of the Jedi. I think they earned their happy ending over the course of the original trilogy and I don't like authors mucking it up. As to your comments on realism, I don't seek that kind of realism in Star Wars. For instance, I find it pretty impossible to believe that Luke became as talented as he was given his short time training with Ben in A New Hope and Yoda in Empire. I imagine he couldn't have held a candle to Vader's near life time of the ways of the Force. But I just accepted it. I don't expect someone to die in Star Wars simply because it is realistic.


3) Also, two trilogies set a pattern for Star Wars focusing on characters in their early 20's and early 30's (Luke, Leia, Han), (Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan). Do you think it would hold the readers' interest to focus on 40-50-somethings in the future (again, with no tragedy ever really touching them?)

I don't think they should have had post-Jedi stories.


4) Would you have preferred there being no continuity? That is a new story about Luke in his 20's published every 3-6 months or so - and none of it every really "counting?"

I didn't mind the Tales of stories, Shadows of the Empire, the stories of a young Han Solo, stuff that filled in some blanks of the original trilogy. (Though some of it was hit and miss.)


5) Would you have preferred Star Wars just died after 6 films?

I would have preferred Star Wars was left to three movies as I don't think Lucas intended to have Episodes I-III when he wanted to call A New Hope Episode IV (listen to the A New Hope audio commentary). Episode IV was just to imply we were coming in on a story that was already going, not something we were supposed to see all of. Star Wars would have been better left as well loved trilogy. It isn't better to add additional stories if those stories are not as good as the original story you are expanding upon.


6) If you owned Star Wars, would you like it if somebody like Tim Zahn could come along and write something a large segment of fans would like, and have it pay you royalties from his sales, just because you owned it? (Not having to do any work yourself?) So would you allow there to be an EU if you were on the receiving end of the paycheck (and it even spawns action figures, and further fandom and discussion of your original movies)?

No, I'd just enjoy the piles of money I had from my movies and effects factory and merchandising (other than books).


7) What would've made it more exciting in your opinion? Did you read


Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Labrynth of Evil
Cloak of Deception
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
Han Solo - Paradise Snare, Hutt Gambit, Rebel Dawn?


These are some of my recommendations and I think they are better than Tim Zahn's Heir to the Empire stuff in many respects.

I did not care too much for the Tales Of format, though some stories were quite good but included in an anthology with some of the worst ones as well.


I didn't read the ones you listed. I would have been content with Star Wars being three movies and no books.


8) Yes, Rogue Planet and Approaching Storm were not highlights of the EU at all. I read everything eventually. I like to read and I love new Star Wars instead of the same old movies (they're nice to come back to when I'm in the mood of course). But why not take the opinion of which ones are the good ones from your fellow friends on the board. I'd never recommend you read anything by Barbara Hambly or Vonda McIntyre for example! But James Luceno rocks (though Dark Lord was not his best outing).


That isn't really a question, but I would say that I can absorb other non-Star Wars fiction without needing the Lucas merchandising money train to keep trotting out a bunch of new Star Wars books. I'm none too excited about the TV show either. Lucas keeps saying his life was side tracked by Star Wars and he has all these other stories he wants to tell and can't wait to tell. But then he decides to do a Star Wars TV show (which I bet he ends up directing and writing all of because no one can do it like him) and decides to make Indy IV. I'm not sure I believe he has other stories to tell. If so, I wish he'd tell them instead of making more Star Wars stuff over and over.


9) If you got to write for Star Wars, do you understand that you can't kill main characters for the most part? Darth Vader dies in ROTJ and nothing changes there. So if you want to tell an interesting story, you'd need to invent Roan Shryne (Dark Lord) and have your readers care about the Jedi before killing him off or extending a series about him should you wish to do sequels were he to get a fan following (like Quinlan Vos)? So what's your take on whether Roan Shryne, who anything could happen to, or Darth Vader, is more interesting for a novel if you were writing it?

I don't want to write Star Wars, but I wouldn't dream of killing off main characters. All the young characters - Luke, Leia, Han, and their cute pals 3P0, R2, and Chewie survived the original trilogy. Lando survived. The only characters who died were from the old era (Ben, Yoda, Anakin) or were evil. And that formula worked just fine for me. They didn't have to kill Han to make the original trilogy great for me. I say any writer can make something interesting by killing someone; the challenge is to keep telling interesting stories without killing the principals. Batman never kills Joker in the comics, none of the villains ever kill Alfred, so a good writer has to come up with a way to keep that story interesting.

And by the way, Roan Shryne is not as interesting as Darth Vader. I'd rather read a long book about Vader picking out items from a catalogue than read a book about the adventures of some Jedi I don't know.


10) What role do you see Star Wars playing for you in the future? If you get bored of new stuff, will you sell everything and "quit?" Will you keep what you have, because it once brought you joy and has (and may have in the future) value for you, but you don't need to continue the obsession? Will you instead continue to rapidly buy everything (maybe even get one of those mailboxes :D ) because it's a habit now and you literally cannot wait for Mace Windu's 17th resculpt from Hasbro? Is finding and collecting more fun for you, or is indulging in the fantasy somehow (video games, building scenes with loose figures, the ocassional comic or book)? What do you think?

I will continue to enjoy the movies and the toys. (I'd prefer the prequels hadn't been made and think they are flawed, but do enjoy them a great deal) I reserve judgment on the TV show.


There are no right and wrong answers. I just would like to hear your thoughts (Slicker's too some day, as he is very anti-EU himself and might've just read the wrong books - I'd be discouraged too if all I had to go on was Approaching Storm, Rogue Planet, and so forth). Those books were really hard-marketed and unfortunately the better ones weren't that I'm aware of. I remember an endcap in the book department of Target pushing Rogue Planet. I bet many people who'd never read a SW book went for that, and should they have not been able to tolerate it, never would have ventured into Labrynth of Evil - to their mistake.

So bonus quetion: don't you think it makes a difference which books you read?

It does make a difference which books you read. I enjoyed the novelizations (somewhat), the Tales of, and Shadows of the Empire. I thought Dark Lord was lame. There is and can be good Star Wars fiction. But I don't want all these terrible stories out there which people can point to as Star Wars and which they can claim is canon. In my mind, Chewbacca didn't die, but obviously in the eyes of the public he did. I'd have preferred the public just have what we all assumed after Jedi - and they lived happily ever after. In short, where Star Wars books and comics are concerned the bad far outweighs the good and the manner in which the overall story is compromised by the bad is not worth the occasional or possible gem.

Rocketboy
04-03-2007, 11:47 PM
1) So did you continue reading NJO after Chewie was killed? A lot of it was pretty drawn out, but things like Anakin Solo's death had major impact on the characters and made it continue to fascinate me.I didn't read any of NJO. I stopped reading post-Jedi EU about 100 pages into Heir to the Empire well over 10 years ago. From everything I've heard/read and the synopsis I've read, I'm glad I haven't. Nothing has piqued my interest in the slightest.


2) Also, do you think that these characters, in their early 20's (save for Han in his early 30's) in the OT, could continue living out their lives as dangerously as they did in the flims for another 20 years or so, and none of them get themselves killed? In a real world, hell no. But there is nothing real about Star Wars and that was what I like about it.


In my opinion, killing somebody was realistic.Exactly. And that is the problem.


3) Also, two trilogies set a pattern for Star Wars focusing on characters in their early 20's and early 30's (Luke, Leia, Han), (Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan). Do you think it would hold the readers' interest to focus on 40-50-somethings in the future (again, with no tragedy ever really touching them?)Well, it doesn't really seem to have stopped Lucasfilm from doing just that (for the most part), has it?


4) Would you have preferred there being no continuity? That is a new story about Luke in his 20's published every 3-6 months or so - and none of it every really "counting?"Doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I just wish what has been published would have been handled better, which I understand was a setback from the get go, with stories that took place at different times and switching publishers, ect.


5) Would you have preferred Star Wars just died after 6 films?Nope. There has been some good stuff that has come out of the EU. You can find a gold nugget but you need to sift through a bucket of crap first. Besides, it keeps the saga alive in one form or another. With only the movies, I doubt we'd have sites like SSG, which I am thankful for because I've met some people here that I would consider real friends. Just because my interest is dying, I still come here for the people, discussions, and interactions.


6) If you owned Star Wars, would you like it if somebody like Tim Zahn could come along and write something a large segment of fans would like, and have it pay you royalties from his sales, just because you owned it? (Not having to do any work yourself?) So would you allow there to be an EU if you were on the receiving end of the paycheck (and it even spawns action figures, and further fandom and discussion of your original movies)?Of course I'd love it if someone else did all the work I took all the reward. I don't blame Uncle George. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would say no. But I would try to take a more active role in it all though.


7) What would've made it more exciting in your opinion? Did you read

Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Labrynth of Evil
Cloak of Deception
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
These are some of my recommendations and I think they are better than Tim Zahn's Heir to the Empire stuff in many respects.

I did not care too much for the Tales Of format, though some stories were quite good but included in an anthology with some of the worst ones as well.Haven't read any of those and have no interst in doing so.
Darth Maul was a lamed character, I have no desire to find out more.
Darth Bane - Ancient Star Wars/KOTOR era? Almost as bad a post-Jedi.
LOE and COD - I've heard/read bad things about them and after the last PT movie prequel book (The Approaching Storm), no thanks.


8) Yes, Rogue Planet and Approaching Storm were not highlights of the EU at all. I read everything eventually. I like to read and I love new Star Wars instead of the same old movies (they're nice to come back to when I'm in the mood of course). But why not take the opinion of which ones are the good ones from your fellow friends on the board. I'd never recommend you read anything by Barbara Hambly or Vonda McIntyre for example! But James Luceno rocks (though Dark Lord was not his best outing).I have taken opinions of others with mixed results. Dark Lord being the "highlight" (as I thought it was just ok). Most of the other stuff I've read it was because I wanted to.


9) If you got to write for Star Wars, do you understand that you can't kill main characters for the most part? Darth Vader dies in ROTJ and nothing changes there. So if you want to tell an interesting story, you'd need to invent Roan Shryne (Dark Lord) and have your readers care about the Jedi before killing him off or extending a series about him should you wish to do sequels were he to get a fan following (like Quinlan Vos)? So what's your take on whether Roan Shryne, who anything could happen to, or Darth Vader, is more interesting for a novel if you were writing it?That is another problem, the new characters are pretty generic and forgettable. By the End of Dark Lord, I didn't care if Roan lived or died. Same with Last of the Jedi. Ferus is semi-interesting, but if he is killed in the final book, then oh well, IMO.
I think Droid summed it up well:

I say any writer can make something interesting by killing someone; the challenge is to keep telling interesting stories without killing the principals. Batman never kills Joker in the comics, none of the villains ever kill Alfred, so a good writer has to come up with a way to keep that story interesting.


And by the way, Roan Shryne is not as interesting as Darth Vader. I'd rather read a long book about Vader picking out items from a catalogue than read a book about the adventures of some Jedi I don't know.Great mental image there! :thumbsup:


10) What role do you see Star Wars playing for you in the future? Star Wars will always be there for me, but I see it as less and less as time goes by.


If you get bored of new stuff, will you sell everything and "quit?" I haven't seriously collected figures since probably '98. I'd like to sell what I do have, but it is all in storage and it will take some time to organize and list/sell it. Perhaps when the wife and I move into out new house I'll get to working on it.


Will you keep what you have, because it once brought you joy and has (and may have in the future) value for you, but you don't need to continue the obsession? Will you instead continue to rapidly buy everything (maybe even get one of those mailboxes :D ) because it's a habit now and you literally cannot wait for Mace Windu's 17th resculpt from Hasbro? Is finding and collecting more fun for you, or is indulging in the fantasy somehow (video games, building scenes with loose figures, the ocassional comic or book)? What do you think?I'll keep the stuff I still actually want. The rest is history. As I have in the past 9 years, I'll buy what grabs my attention. Since 2005, in terms of toys, I think I've purchased 6 basic figures, the 3 Potato Heads, and a few Galactic Heros.


So bonus quetion: don't you think it makes a difference which books you read?Nope. IMO, it's only a problem when people don't read.

2-1B
04-04-2007, 12:42 AM
I think a novel about The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise would be a cool area of Star Wars lore to cover.

Not as cool as The Tragedy of 2-1B, but still pretty interesting.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-04-2007, 09:38 PM
Here's my stab at these questions

1) So did you continue reading NJO after Chewie was killed? A lot of it was pretty drawn out, but things like Anakin Solo's death had major impact on the characters and made it continue to fascinate me.I'm a slow reader and spend too much time watching TV, playing computer games or posting here, so I haven't got to NJO yet. I think I was at New Rebellion, then I started the Hand of Thrawn Duology. I finished the first book on a second attempt, but didn't get through the second book. Not that it was bad, I just got distracted with other things. I also realized I had skipped over the Corellian trilogy.


2) Also, do you think that these characters, in their early 20's (save for Han in his early 30's) in the OT, could continue living out their lives as dangerously as they did in the flims for another 20 years or so, and none of them get themselves killed? In my opinion, killing somebody was realistic.I think that most would have expected the happily ever after result, but it's also realistic to assume that the entire Empire would have been totally gone in an instant. However, with all of the bad stuff that continues to happen, it makes it seem as if nothing was really resolved in ROTJ.


3) Also, two trilogies set a pattern for Star Wars focusing on characters in their early 20's and early 30's (Luke, Leia, Han), (Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan). Do you think it would hold the readers' interest to focus on 40-50-somethings in the future (again, with no tragedy ever really touching them?)I think people like what is familiar, so they wouldn't mind following the characters for as long as people want to write about them. People don't live forever, so we know they are going to die sometime. Still, having a main character die can still be hard to deal with. Sure, it's not like a real person dying, but when it's character that you've known and enjoyed following through the movies and so many book, there is a bit of an emotional investment.


4) Would you have preferred there being no continuity? That is a new story about Luke in his 20's published every 3-6 months or so - and none of it every really "counting?"I would prefer something with continuity. Some of the early EU doesn't hold up as well. Part of it was that they didn't have all the facts in place for the prequels. Still, they did a pretty good job of trying to tie stuff together.


5) Would you have preferred Star Wars just died after 6 films?Well, a lot of EU was published between the two trilogies. When I first heard about Heir to the Empire, I was thinking that it was the Episodes VII through IX that Lucas had in his head. I thought that he decided to let someone write the book because he wasn't going to do any sequel movies, but that he might still do the prequel movies. Then Truce at Bakura and Courtship of Princess Leia were released. Those occur between ROTJ and Heir to the Empire, so my assumptions were wrong. If the Zahn trilogy was 7 through 9, what were these? I thought it was going to turn into all those tons of Star Trek books, which the Star Trek Chronology don't consider canon. Then a friend of mine was saying that they were making an effort to keep continuity, so I started to get into it and have enjoyed a lot of it.


6) If you owned Star Wars, would you like it if somebody like Tim Zahn could come along and write something a large segment of fans would like, and have it pay you royalties from his sales, just because you owned it? (Not having to do any work yourself?) So would you allow there to be an EU if you were on the receiving end of the paycheck (and it even spawns action figures, and further fandom and discussion of your original movies)?I might allow others to write EU, but I would have the final say as to what gets published as canon. The more others write though, and the further in the future it gets from the original story, it would be as much their universe as mine. They will have created characters the become more important as my characters become less important as they grow old and die.


7) What would've made it more exciting in your opinion? Did you read


Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Labrynth of Evil
Cloak of Deception
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
Han Solo - Paradise Snare, Hutt Gambit, Rebel Dawn?


These are some of my recommendations and I think they are better than Tim Zahn's Heir to the Empire stuff in many respects.I've read Shadow Hunter, Cloak of Deception and the Han Solo Trilogy. All very good, with the Han Solo books being some of my favorite. I would love to see that as a TV miniseries, more likely a one season series that could also incorporate the old Han Solo and Lando books.


I did not care too much for the Tales Of format, though some stories were quite good but included in an anthology with some of the worst ones as well.I enjoyed them. Some stories weren't as great, but some were pretty good. I haven't read the Tales from the New Republic or Tales from the Empire though.


8) Yes, Rogue Planet and Approaching Storm were not highlights of the EU at all. I read everything eventually. I like to read and I love new Star Wars instead of the same old movies (they're nice to come back to when I'm in the mood of course). But why not take the opinion of which ones are the good ones from your fellow friends on the board. I'd never recommend you read anything by Barbara Hambly or Vonda McIntyre for example! But James Luceno rocks (though Dark Lord was not his best outing).I didn't enjoy Rogue Planet much either. It just seems like I was waiting for something to happen and not much did. I don't remember as much about The Approaching Storm, but I liked it a lot better than Rogue Planet. It certainly wasn't among the best I've read, but it was good as a lead in to AOTC.


9) If you got to write for Star Wars, do you understand that you can't kill main characters for the most part? Darth Vader dies in ROTJ and nothing changes there. So if you want to tell an interesting story, you'd need to invent Roan Shryne (Dark Lord) and have your readers care about the Jedi before killing him off or extending a series about him should you wish to do sequels were he to get a fan following (like Quinlan Vos)? So what's your take on whether Roan Shryne, who anything could happen to, or Darth Vader, is more interesting for a novel if you were writing it?I think if you create an interesting character, it will be a good read whether they live or die. There was something of that in Shadow Hunter.


10) What role do you see Star Wars playing for you in the future? If you get bored of new stuff, will you sell everything and "quit?" Will you keep what you have, because it once brought you joy and has (and may have in the future) value for you, but you don't need to continue the obsession? Will you instead continue to rapidly buy everything (maybe even get one of those mailboxes :D ) because it's a habit now and you literally cannot wait for Mace Windu's 17th resculpt from Hasbro? Is finding and collecting more fun for you, or is indulging in the fantasy somehow (video games, building scenes with loose figures, the ocassional comic or book)? What do you think?I'll continue to buy the books and comics. I hope to get around to reading them someday. I'll continue to buy the figures as long as there are new ones. I'm somewhat of a completist. With the new and improved sculpts of many, I sometimes think I could get rid of the bulky POTF2 figures and other less desirable figures and just keep the good ones. However, I also like to think of my figures as sort of my own personal Star Wars museum. I can show the good figures along with the bad and see the evolution of the figure making. It's like the Action Figure Archive come to life! I wish they would update that book. For a few issues of SW Insider, they continued where the book left off, but stopped after maybe getting through Episode I figures or a bit farther.


So bonus quetion: don't you think it makes a difference which books you read?Definitely. The Zahn trilogy was a good beginning, especially given the appetite many had for new Star Wars at the time. Some of the continuity doesn't quite hold up as well, but I enjoyed the series. In addition to the ones mentioned earlier, I also really liked the X-Wing series of books and the Jedi Apprentice series. I've not read the Jedi Quest ones yet, but imagine I will like them since they are by the same author. I have most of the comics that are in collected form, but haven't read very many yet. I look forward to reading everything that I have not yet read.

Tycho
04-05-2007, 05:56 AM
There have been some really great answers and different opinions generated in this thread. It actually is a highlight on these forums to read.


Here's my stab at these questions
I'm a slow reader and spend too much time watching TV, playing computer games or posting here, so I haven't got to NJO yet.

You do have a lot of reading to do. It even seems to me that the books come out almost too fast to keep up with them.


I think I was at New Rebellion,

That one wasn't particularly great. Grumble.


then I started the Hand of Thrawn Duology.

I liked these. They get Luke and Mara together.


I also realized I had skipped over the Corellian trilogy.

You're not missing anything, but the Solos discover how strong in the Force their young Anakin really is. It's one of the first indications concerning his destiny.


I think that most would have expected the happily ever after result,

I've seen that's to the taste of at least several people here, though not my own. I like complicated stories that bring into play a lot of realism.


but it's also realistic to assume that the entire Empire would (not) have been totally gone in an instant.

Of course. Just because the Sith were eliminated doesn't mean that the Moffs, Governors, and Admirals would be defeated by a loose, coalition of alliances.


However, with all of the bad stuff that continues to happen, it makes it seem as if nothing was really resolved in ROTJ.

The Sith were eliminated from the equation, which is what mattered the most. To achieve and protect democracy, one must be forever dilligent. That is a realistic point that all the following ensuing crisis well-represent.

As to continuity - I too like it. It makes the struggle have more meaning and consequences.



They will have created characters the become more important as my characters become less important as they grow old and die.

Such is happening with Jaina and Jacen Solo, and to an extent, the development of Ben Skywalker.


with the Han Solo books being some of my favorite. I would love to see that as a TV miniseries, more likely a one season series that could also incorporate the old Han Solo and Lando books.

We're thinking exactly alike there. I would do this for the live-action TV series. It has most of the OT Star Wars characters at younger ages anyway (except Luke really) - Leia even appears at probably age 10, thus permitting her to be recast for a bit part. There's the issue of compensating Anne Crispin for her story work though. It wasn't written for a TV series and to secure the rights for it might be more complicated than it would be to work with something new. The thing that bugs me is that the majority of bureaucratic minds wouldn't even bother with doing that. It always has to be something new. The interesting thing is that in an interview of Anne Crispin that the Insider did (I believe), she said she wasn't allowed to write about Han's days at the Academy and as a young Imperial Officer. "Paradise Snare" takes place largely when he's 19. Then It's 4 years later and he's 23 in "Hutt Gambit." They could definitely work with those years as well. Of course I'm still in love with the idea that Han is a clone of his father, Denn Solo's natural son. I could make that work with Anne Crispin's continuity, and have Han be part of a new lineage of Imperial Clones.


I haven't read the Tales from the New Republic

The first story in that, is a 4-parter than Zahn and Stackpole combined efforts on to weave the tale of Ysanne Isard's rise to power, and Garm Bel Ibis' flight to the Rebel Alliance, all in conjunction with the theft of the plans to the first Death Star. It's pretty darn good!



I think if you create an interesting character, it will be a good read whether they live or die. There was something of that in Shadow Hunter.

Oh yeah. Darsha Assant, the Jedi Padawan girl. Lorn Pavon and I-Five, the duo Darth Maul had so much trouble killing. That book was great!



I can show the good figures along with the bad and see the evolution of the figure making. It's like the Action Figure Archive come to life!

That's a cool idea actually. I'd like to see how you display your collection. Many of my dioramas are likely predictable.


I wish they would update that book.

Sansweet's Action Figure Archive? Yeah I enjoy that as well.


In addition to the ones mentioned earlier, I also really liked the X-Wing series of books and the Jedi Apprentice series. I've not read the Jedi Quest ones yet, but imagine I will like them since they are by the same author.

Jude Watson is really good. Her stories are better than many of the adult books. Jedi Quest wasn't her best outing - likely because Anakin was such a bad student - it's part of his character. He screws up and then makes things worse trying to make things better. It's a good characterization of him and it establishes Ferus Olin, another Padawan who becomes very important to "The Last of the Jedi" series she's writing currently (there are 7 books) as Ferus eventually quits his training and thus isn't killed during Order-66, but Palpatine finds him and coerces him into becoming one of the Emperor's Hands. It's very interesting. He doesn't know who Darth Vader really is, but Vader knows him and doesn't like him! There's a great dynamic going on in those books.


I have most of the comics that are in collected form, but haven't read very many yet. I look forward to reading everything that I have not yet read.

The Republic comic series with Quinlan Vos is amazing. You'll really start to like him a lot! John Ostrander who is the comic's writer is really talented.

pbarnard
04-05-2007, 12:51 PM
The Republic comic series with Quinlan Vos is amazing. You'll really start to like him a lot! John Ostrander who is the comic's writer is really talented.

Actually the whole Clone Wars story as told by Dark Horse is far superior to the Cartoon.

El Chuxter
04-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Obi-Wan Kenobi in the gimp mask from Pulp Fiction and K'krukh returning from the dead about fifteen times? Durge commenting that a lightsaber through the head tickles? The amazing shifting alliances of Quinlan Vos? You mean that Dark Horse Clone Wars?

Give me Genndy's Clone Wars over Dark Horse's any day. Hell, give me Genndy's cartoons over the prequels any day. :)

Droid
04-05-2007, 04:30 PM
Ferus eventually quits his training and thus isn't killed during Order-66, but Palpatine finds him and coerces him into becoming one of the Emperor's Hands. It's very interesting. He doesn't know who Darth Vader really is, but Vader knows him and doesn't like him! There's a great dynamic going on in those books.

That is a significant beef I have with EU, including the Clone Wars cartoons. It is Star Wars canon that there are only two Sith, a master and an apprentice. But the EU likes to constantly say, "No, that character isn't a Sith. It's a Sith Witch, or a Sith in Training. The Hands aren't apprentices. They are Apprentices in Training." I think the whole thing adds up to "we can do whatever we want." It is avoiding the rule through semantics. It's like Palpatine having ten people all vying to be the next Apprentice. (Cue Tycho writing a parody of the TV show Apprentice but with Palpatine instead of the Donad. Who will go the the throne room this week? Who will get sent down the elevator shaft? You're not fired, you're fried - with force lightning)

To me an Apprentice isn't a title, it is a person in training. If there is a master and an apprentice there can only be one apprentice.

And people would say Dooku could have a secret apprentice because he hopes to kill his master and somehow it doesn't break the rule. If each Sith gets his own master and his own apprentice you end up with more than two.

And it gets old that they keep brining out new Sith after Return of the Jedi in the EU even though the Sith were destroyed and as Tycho claims it was the main achievement of the original trilogy.

I say you pick up a red lightsaber you're a Sith!

I wouldn't have written that there are only two Sith. I would have had a bunch of interesting Sith in the prequels. But Lucas chose a path the EU won't follow.

pbarnard
04-05-2007, 05:22 PM
Obi-Wan Kenobi in the gimp mask from Pulp Fiction and K'krukh returning from the dead about fifteen times? Durge commenting that a lightsaber through the head tickles? The amazing shifting alliances of Quinlan Vos? You mean that Dark Horse Clone Wars?

Give me Genndy's Clone Wars over Dark Horse's any day. Hell, give me Genndy's cartoons over the prequels any day. :)

So no depth, a guy claiming to have created the idea of the Clone Wars altogether amongst other characters involved in the series, rewriting said characters after the novels and the comics have established them? So if you mean being one of the single biggest portrayers of continuity inclusion, go ahead, keep up with the liar's cartoons.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-05-2007, 08:23 PM
That's a cool idea actually. I'd like to see how you display your collection. Many of my dioramas are likely predictable. I don't have a very organized display. I'm afraid to start pounding holes in walls to put up shelves, and trying to decide what sort of free standing bookshelf or display case to get isn't easy. I sort of have a hodge podge of various things. Right now, I have figures displayed on tops of bookcases, tables and other surfaces in various rooms.


It is Star Wars canon that there are only two Sith, a master and an apprentice.If we are limiting canon to what is in the movies, then all we have to support that is Yoda's line. However, we are also told that the Sith have been believed to be extinct for a thousand years, and that the dark side clouds everything. So, how much can the Jedi, even Yoda, really know about the Sith and their mysterious ways?

Tycho
04-05-2007, 08:31 PM
With regards to the Sith, there still are only 2 really.

Dooku assembled a collage of False Apprentices vying to serve him (like Quinlan Vos who had his own agenda, or Ventress who wanted to be his Sith Apprentice). Were any of them able to kill Palpatine (Quinlan was dispatched to kill Darth Sidious but tricked into believing it was another guy - a Senator the Sith wanted eliminated), then Dooku would move up to being the Master with a new Apprentice.

Palpatine groomed Anakin to replace Dooku at the same time "there were only 2 official Sith." You saw that in the movies. Heck - he was after Anakin when Maul's body was barely cold.

The Sith are duplicitous and don't even follow their own rules. Duh.

pbarnard
04-05-2007, 10:36 PM
Corollary to the Sith Rule of Two: There maybe only two with the title of Sith Lord, but each better have the next guy waiting in the wings for when he oversteps and gets taken out by you or someone else.

Tycho
04-06-2007, 01:44 AM
One of the obvious lines of thought was:

Darth Plagueis created Anakin through Sith alchemy and experimentation. There are hints that Plagueis was a Munni, btw (Muunlist, CW cartoon, where IG-war droids were made for the Banking Clan, as well as the Hailfire Droids).

Plagueis wanted to use Sidious (Palpatine) as his apprentice, to take over the political power of the Republic (as Palpatine went along with that plan obviously) but then he'd turn Anakin loose on him and have Anakin become the new Sith Lord.

Palpatine didn't want to be replaced as the Apprentice, so he killed Plagueis and usurped Anakin eventually.

First he got Maul, probably stole him as a child under the guise he was going to bring him to the Temple for Jedi Training, but raised him Sith instead. Then he got Maul tattooed like a freak, so he'd never be able to be the politically correct leader widely accepted by the Republic. Maul was the perfect pawn until Obi-Wan upset Palpatine's plans in that area and brought Anakin back into the fold of things.

Then to build his military, Palpatine needed to engineer the Clone Wars. To set up the Jedi, they'd be both the Clones' Commanders (until Order 66) and he'd take one of their own, Dooku, to help him lay the blame on "Force users' doorsteps" as Dooku was an ex-Jedi. To tempt Dooku into it, he played a dangerous game because Dooku could feasibly win the war with General Grievous and he kept Ventress, Quinlan Vos, and others in the shadows, so as he embraced the Sith ways, Darth Tyranus could off Palpatine and have an apprentice waiting for him - especially one like Quinlan Vos who could also command a Clone Army.

Ever slick, Palpatine didn't let Dooku get too far off a short leash, and he had manipulated Anakin in the wings, then ultimately had him take Dooku down. Anakin would have served him brilliantly and loyally, but Obi-Wan always screws up Palpatine's plans and the midichlorian boy wonder ended up in a life-support suit.

Ironically, if Palpatine knew Luke existed even then (at the end of ROTS), he'd wait patiently until Obi-Wan had trained Luke (it would be obvious what Jedi would take in the son of Anakin in the first place) and then turn Luke against his father and replace Vader with his own son. This strategy was certainly tried in ROTJ.

At the very same time, Vader wanted to turn Luke and have his help in off-ing Palpatine.

It never stops with the Sith.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-06-2007, 01:58 AM
"This" and an expletive are anagrams of "Sith." "This Sith Sh**" is a bit of a tongue twister. Even more so for this guy: "Hi, my naymth Jethro and I can't thay the letter eth!"

Droid
04-06-2007, 09:53 AM
But the EU likes to constantly say, "No, that character isn't a Sith. It's a Sith Witch, or a Sith in Training. The Hands aren't apprentices. They are Apprentices in Training." I think the whole thing adds up to "we can do whatever we want." It is avoiding the rule through semantics.

Thank you all for proving my point.

El Chuxter
04-06-2007, 11:31 AM
So no depth, a guy claiming to have created the idea of the Clone Wars altogether amongst other characters involved in the series, rewriting said characters after the novels and the comics have established them? So if you mean being one of the single biggest portrayers of continuity inclusion, go ahead, keep up with the liar's cartoons.

Huh?

Given the lead time on a book, comic, or cartoon, I'd say no one ripped off the characters from anyone or intentionally wrote them in a way that was inconsistent with anyone else's version. They were given visuals and brief descriptions and told to run with them.

I'm going to always pick the dude who created Samurai Jack and Dexter's Lab over some sci-fi author I never would've heard of if he hadn't written a mediocre Clone Wars novel.

Tycho
04-06-2007, 03:33 PM
Thank you all for proving my point.

What is your point (beyond your point)?

I get it: there is not literally two Sith by themselves, but potential apprentices waiting in the wings.

And you feel this is bad? Because?

2-1B
04-06-2007, 06:03 PM
The whole Rule of Two is stupid anyway...they took a comment from Yoda in TPM and completely blew it out of proportion and up into this goofy infrastructure of Sith-hood and these "Rules" that don't really exist in Star Wars.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-06-2007, 07:28 PM
And since when do the Sith follow rule anyway. There is only really one rule they follow. Do whatever you have to do to get power. Actually, there was some sort of code in KOTOR or KOTOR 2 as well. Aha, I found it on wiki.


Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

pbarnard
04-14-2007, 10:32 PM
Huh?

Given the lead time on a book, comic, or cartoon, I'd say no one ripped off the characters from anyone or intentionally wrote them in a way that was inconsistent with anyone else's version. They were given visuals and brief descriptions and told to run with them.

I'm going to always pick the dude who created Samurai Jack and Dexter's Lab over some sci-fi author I never would've heard of if he hadn't written a mediocre Clone Wars novel.

But he did. He made Durge into a mindless beast. That seems odd for the head of Special Operations to be mindless. Made Ventess into thinking she could supplant Dooku or Palpatine when she was too busy running campaigns in sort of the same role as the Jedi Knights were. She was well part of the Sepratists long before the little tournament.

El Chuxter
04-15-2007, 02:27 AM
My point was, Lucasfilm essentially gave Dark Horse and Hanna-Barbera character designs and told them to run with them. The interpretations were indeed different. But it's because they were developed independently, not because one creator decided to "undo" the other.

Durge wasn't exactly mindless. He was silent. To me, that makes him a lot more menacing than Dark Horse's version, which can't shut the hell up.

And for nigh-indestructible, showing him as a mass of interconnected fibers worked better than him saying that a lightsaber through his head tickled. I wish I were making that quote up. That moment is one of the worst in SW comics history, and I'm including the entire Marvel run when I say that.

Also, if you check the timeline at starwars.com, the tournament takes place much earlier than the rest of the micro-series. It's an after-the-fact fix, but it works.

OC47150
05-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Rebelscum reported (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Jedi_Journals_Bookshelf_Novel_Canceled_104710.asp) that the novel that was to be penned by my favorite Star Wars writer James Luceno (Labrynth of Evil, etc.) was to be cancelled.

I am very disturbed that something might have happened to him, or his relationship with Del Rey or Lucasfilm. I hope that nothing like this is the case, but really want to know what is occuring with him and why the book was cancelled. Worse than anything above would be that sales of Star Wars books have dramatically declined."Darth Bane: Path of Destruction" was one
of the best books I've read in recent times. Doing the "Legacy" series might or might not constitute a marketing success. Of that I'm not certain. But I buy those books as well, as I did with Timothy Zahn's latest SW entry: "Allegiance."



Sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to it, too.

I met Michael Stackpole at a book signing at GenCon Indy last year. Borders had a booth there, and I bought a copy of Rogue Squadron to get signed. He and I spoke for a few minutes, since there was no big line for autographs at the time, and I asked if he were writing any more SW-related novels. He said no, that his relationship with his editor wasn't the greatest.

So it could be more of a problem with the publisher than LucasFilm.

Beast
05-29-2007, 04:48 PM
Since Lucas was talking recently about a couple Made for TV Star Wars films he's kicking around, maybe the novel was cancelled for that reason. Perhaps Lucas wants to fill in the backstory of Plagueis and Palpatine with one of those TV films?

Tycho
05-29-2007, 06:45 PM
Since Lucas was talking recently about a couple Made for TV Star Wars films he's kicking around, maybe the novel was cancelled for that reason. Perhaps Lucas wants to fill in the backstory of Plagueis and Palpatine with one of those TV films?

That would be a change as Lucas' TV films in the past were made for children and I think Darth Plagueis is a rather more adult topic.

darko666
06-02-2007, 05:50 PM
I also am clear about how I'd introduce the future Darth Maul as he begins his Sith training.


could you at least write that out? i would love to know how someone else would create the beginning of Maul. i was always curious as to why there was never a novel explaining his upbringing into the Sith with Palpatine. i've read Shadow Hunter and his comic books, but i need more.

pbarnard
06-02-2007, 10:09 PM
There was the Episode I Journal of Darth Maul. Unfortunately, Darth Maul is a plot device. He is just a single dimensional killing machine. Wipe a few Jedi out and some how get Obi-wan Kenobi to knighthood to take Anakin Skywalker as his apprentice. He's a lot less interesting than Sonny Corleone who played the similar part in The Godfather.

Turbowars
06-03-2007, 12:30 AM
Don't know if this was mentioned, but what if Lucas is working on a new film about this? I mean he can't possibly be done with film.

Tycho
06-03-2007, 01:49 AM
could you at least write that out? i would love to know how someone else would create the beginning of Maul. i was always curious as to why there was never a novel explaining his upbringing into the Sith with Palpatine. i've read Shadow Hunter and his comic books, but i need more.

I can outline what I'd thought of doing:

Start with Darth Plagueis as an apprentice and show him taking in Palpatine to secretly have him standing by in the wings when he killed his master.

Then with Palpatine as the apprentice, and inserted into Naboo politics, having access to deliver Force-sensitive babies to the Jedi for training. However, Palpatine never took baby-Maul to the Jedi Temple, and raised him and trained him on his own.

Meanwhile Plagueis was wary of Palpatine and genetically engineered Anakin to replace him, creating a "virgin birth scenerio of sorts."

Palpatine learned of this and through second parties, wound up sending Shmi and Anakin to the Outer Rim as slaves. Then he killed Darth Plageuis.

Meanwhile, he was the only influence on a young Maul and got him tattooed and everything so the public would never accept him taking Palpatine's throne. Thus Maul would remain a tool, but not a threat.

Maul was killed of course. Dooku was a threat, as surely Dooku knew that if he and Grievous won, he could rule the galaxy and off Palpatine. So Dooku had Ventress, Quinlan Vos, Sora Bulq, and others waiting in the wings to see who would be his apprentice.

But as Plageuis once planned to, Anakin was pulled out of the wings and offed Dooku, becoming Palpatine's apprentice.

Some people make a big deal about there only supposed to being 2 Sith at a time. There's possibly 4 at any given time. 2 are the secret apprentices of the other 2, for at some point they'll turn on each other. I think 3 is the most common number though - the Apprentice having an Apprentice - that sort of thing.

People who literally believe there's only 2 during the PT don't understand the Sith at all. This might have been true during the OT however.

But when Luke was discovered, both Sith wanted his allegiance. Furthermore, Mada Jade was working for Palpatine, and the new Force Unleashed game will bring out a character that was working for Vader.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-03-2007, 02:02 AM
Some people make a big deal about there only supposed to being 2 Sith at a time. There's possibly 4 at any given time. 2 are the secret apprentices of the other 2, for at some point they'll turn on each other. I think 3 is the most common number though - the Apprentice having an Apprentice - that sort of thing.
And if there are two, and one dies, there would only be one! So the rule of two can't always be true.

Bel-Cam Jos
06-03-2007, 10:23 AM
And if there are two, and one dies, there would only be one! So the rule of two can't always be true.Ah, but if Oceania and Big Brother have convinced you that 2 + 2 = 5, then anything is true, even from uncertain points of view! :D

Beast
06-03-2007, 10:30 AM
And if there are two, and one dies, there would only be one! So the rule of two can't always be true.
Clearly it's like a beauty pagent. There's runner-up Sith. So when one can't fulfill their duties or dies, the runner-up becomes the new Sith. Ensuring there's always two. :D

Mad Slanted Powers
06-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Ah, but if Oceania and Big Brother have convinced you that 2 + 2 = 5, then anything is true, even from uncertain points of view! :DI've seen one of those "proofs" that zero equals one. It involves a step where you are actually dividing by zero. I'm not easily fooled.

I do like Radiohead's song "2+2=5 (The Lukewarm)" though.

pbarnard
06-03-2007, 02:49 PM
I've seen one of those "proofs" that zero equals one. It involves a step where you are actually dividing by zero. I'm not easily fooled.

I do like Radiohead's song "2+2=5 (The Lukewarm)" though.

I saw it using limits. It all depends are you approaching positive or negative infinity. After all, if your 2 isn't big enough, or is just too big, you'll end up someplace between 3 and 5.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-21-2012, 06:39 PM
Guess we'll never find out...

[whisper, whisper]

What? Really? Sweet!

Tycho
04-06-2012, 06:06 AM
What are you talking about?

The book was simply titled Darth Plagueis and is sitting on my desk next to me right now.

It was great! And I'm sure it was the same book as what would have been The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis. Same author, describing the same events.