PDA

View Full Version : Burning Question



stillakid
04-05-2007, 05:46 AM
Why did Obers just walk away as S'more-akin was burning to death? Understandably, Obers was probably a bit miffed at the lad, but a dose of compassion would have had him send his blade through the kid's skull, removing his young charge's pain. But as it was, Obers walks away, leaving the boy to writhe in agony and of course to live long enough to inflict more damage upon the galaxy.

Kidhuman
04-05-2007, 07:16 AM
He figured he was dead and left him to suffer in his pain, a trait unlike the Jedi.

mtriv73
04-05-2007, 09:48 AM
He told Yoda he couldn't kill Anakin. They were too close for him to do the final little bit to finish him off. Obi wan could have chopped him in half rather than severing all of his limbs in that final flourish, but either his compassion for his old friend, or the force, told him not to.

mabudonicus
04-05-2007, 10:14 AM
Maybe he had some "business" to attend to and rushed off to find a washroom, figuring he could come back and make sure Hayden was dead once the pressure was off?? :beard: Iso & Baws

Bobafrett is currently smoothing his locks

shammykenobi
04-05-2007, 11:32 AM
There's something in the ROTS novel about this...basically Obi-Wan felt that he needed to leave Anakin's fate to the will of the Force. If he had killed Anakin then who would have been powerful enough to kill the emperor later?

But suppose that he had killed Anakin...that doesn't mean that the galaxy would have been saved...Palpatine was still an extremely powerful sith and the ruler of an empire and most of the Jedi were dead.

stillakid
04-05-2007, 12:51 PM
There's something in the ROTS novel about this...basically Obi-Wan felt that he needed to leave Anakin's fate to the will of the Force. If he had killed Anakin then who would have been powerful enough to kill the emperor later?

Well, as it turned out, Anakin didn't have to be powerful with the Force to destroy the Emperor. Just strong. Anybody with a Bally's Fitness Card can do that. :yes:

Kidhuman
04-05-2007, 02:57 PM
If the burning is that bad, go see a doctor.





Rocketboy should be playing Guitar Hero now.

JediTricks
04-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Honestly, I don't think this part works at all, and I strongly suspect that the movie was originally shot with Anakin going all the way into the lava and Obi-Wan assuming that meant he was dead but he used the Dark Side of the Force to save himself. There's several toys that came out during ROTS that show an Anakin hand in the lava (it's a flip-over on one of the playsets). But to leave the guy screaming in hate and agony as he slowly burns to death, that was just sick in the head - I bet it was a late reshoot when Lucas realized something didn't translate well in the original version.


Now I have a question, how did Palpatine know to bring a gurney to Anakin's side when he arrived on Mustafar?

Kidhuman
04-05-2007, 07:05 PM
He sensed trouble for young Skywalker, so why not bring it







JimJamBonds ran the brackets for college B-ball

TeeEye7
04-05-2007, 09:16 PM
Massive disappointment in the lad.

2-1B
04-05-2007, 09:58 PM
Why did Obers just walk away as S'more-akin was burning to death?

The marshmallows were done so it was time to go get the chocolate and grahams.

El Chuxter
04-06-2007, 11:34 AM
Never mind that if you figure in the time required to travel to Mustafar, if Palpatine left when ROTS implies he does (when he first senses trouble for Vader), he would've arrived weeks after Anakin had already died.

shammykenobi
04-06-2007, 12:55 PM
Well, as it turned out, Anakin didn't have to be powerful with the Force to destroy the Emperor. Just strong. Anybody with a Bally's Fitness Card can do that. :yes:


I knew someone would say this. But who could have got close enough to the emperor to have picked him up and thrown him around or have done anything else to him? If anakin had died Palpatine would have found another apprentice. If anakin had been dead, luke wouldn't have been on the death star getting crispy-fried by palpatine, thus giving Vader the chance to hurl him into the reactor core.

stillakid
04-06-2007, 02:30 PM
I knew someone would say this. But who could have got close enough to the emperor to have picked him up and thrown him around or have done anything else to him? If anakin had died Palpatine would have found another apprentice. If anakin had been dead, luke wouldn't have been on the death star getting crispy-fried by palpatine, thus giving Vader the chance to hurl him into the reactor core.

Yes, but that has little do to with being powerful with the Force. It's more like a clergy/alter-server thing. :bandit:

2-1B
04-06-2007, 06:05 PM
What color cassock would a Sith Altar Boy wear ? Red or Black ?

JediTricks
04-07-2007, 12:35 AM
He sensed trouble for young Skywalker, so why not bring itBoy, it's a good thing Anakin wasn't starving to death or parched of thirst then, or drowning or falling or angry at seeing his dead friends or a myriad of other things that Palpatine sensing him being "in danger" could have meant.


Yes, but that has little do to with being powerful with the Force. It's more like a clergy/alter-server thing. :bandit:Heh heh, then Luke would be burning Mas Amedda's or Kren Blista-Vanee's body instead of Vader's. :p

Darth Cruel
04-07-2007, 01:46 AM
Honestly, I don't think this part works at all, and I strongly suspect that the movie was originally shot with Anakin going all the way into the lava and Obi-Wan assuming that meant he was dead but he used the Dark Side of the Force to save himself. There's several toys that came out during ROTS that show an Anakin hand in the lava (it's a flip-over on one of the playsets). But to leave the guy screaming in hate and agony as he slowly burns to death, that was just sick in the head - I bet it was a late reshoot when Lucas realized something didn't translate well in the original version.


Now I have a question, how did Palpatine know to bring a gurney to Anakin's side when he arrived on Mustafar?

He didn't bring it all the way to Anakin's side. He sent the 2 Shocktroopers back to the ship for it. And I would think that medical facilities would be an integral part of any space-traveling ship. Even the Falcon had some limited medical facilities as was shown after Luke was rescued from the weather vane under the Bespin Cloud City.

stillakid
04-07-2007, 01:56 AM
He didn't bring it all the way to Anakin's side. He sent the 2 Shocktroopers back to the ship for it. And I would think that medical facilities would be an integral part of any space-traveling ship. Even the Falcon had some limited medical facilities as was shown after Luke was rescued from the weather vane under the Bespin Cloud City.

If we want to pursue that path of discussion, why did Palpatine just happen to have an evil-looking life support suit of armor laying around? I mean, who would ever have such a thing and why would it ever be made prior to it being needed?

Look at it this way: Stormtrooper armor is functional (theoretically) and is pre-vized because the need and cause can be foreseen. Boba Fett's armor was supposedly cobbled together from a variety of sources, which presumably were from war times. The Imperial guards have the same reason as Stormtroopers. But Darth Vader's mask/armor? Where did that come from? Nobody else in the galaxy has anything that looks like that. And it is very conveniently located in the place and time that Anakin would need it. The name, "Vader" got pulled out of Palpatine's a&& with no clear reason...I think that Vader's evil suit got yanked from the same place.

2-1B
04-07-2007, 02:06 AM
He was about to send Vader to invade the Jedi Temple but that's not what's important now. What's important is that you don't give enough credit to 2-1B.
Palps put a call into Coruscant on his way back home and Brother Man had a wicked righteous custom suit at the ready. You aren't realizing that Deuce's turnaround lead time is really short.

mabudonicus
04-07-2007, 11:11 AM
Yep, I think that's why Deuce was included in ROTS- his presence negates any possible inconsistencies in the mthanks to his flat-out AWESOMEness...

If only he'd bounced around like he had pogo sticks for legs, then this thread wouldn't even be necessary :beard: Iso & Baws

Rogue II is gonna go for the side salad sometime soon

LTBasker
04-07-2007, 11:35 AM
Why did Obers just walk away as S'more-akin was burning to death?

He was suddenly inspired by the entire ordeal on what to finally do with Jar-Jar.

As for the Vader suit, I think Palpatine just has fetish issues and was going to put Anakin in it anyways. The original name was to be Darth Gimp but he was too paranoid about Bruce Willis busting in with a lightsaber.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-07-2007, 02:22 PM
We don't know that the suit was just lying around. It could have been fabricated as needed by the medical droids. They managed to conjure up all the perfect sized artificial limbs he needed, so why not make a helmet and put some medical equipment into a suit?

Jargo
04-11-2007, 03:36 PM
To get close to Palpatine you just had to be blond and [semi]attractive. and male. simple as. that's why he put vader in the suit. so he could pretend Anakin was still pretty. I guess after all those years he was waiting for luke to turn up so he could sit Luke on his knee and give him those delicious Werther's originals......

darthvyn
05-07-2007, 10:55 AM
If we want to pursue that path of discussion, why did Palpatine just happen to have an evil-looking life support suit of armor laying around? I mean, who would ever have such a thing and why would it ever be made prior to it being needed?

palpatine repeatedly says things progressed according to his plans and/or visions... maybe he saw what would happen to anakin and had the armor fashioned ahead of time.

stillakid
05-07-2007, 11:32 AM
palpatine repeatedly says things progressed according to his plans and/or visions... maybe he saw what would happen to anakin and had the armor fashioned ahead of time.

yeah, then why did he have a look of surprise when he sensed that "Darth Vader is in trouble"? And if he foresaw that, why not send some help with Anakin to avoid the whole problem with Obi? For that matter, why not just have Padme's ship destroyed on approach? Or better yet, just have her killed in her apartment before she ever left?

DarkArtist
06-04-2007, 11:01 AM
I have a question that maybe someone here can answer: currently watching AOTC and while in the Gunship Obi Wan notices Count Dooku, to which Anakin replies "It's Dooku.... Shoot Him Down." then the clone pilot states "We're out of Rockets." My question is this:

Why didn't they just use the lasers to shoot him down. were both the lasers and the rockets depleated?

darko666
06-04-2007, 05:48 PM
to the best of my knowledge, they wanted to capture and question Dooku, not kill him. also, i don't think there were any troopers in the laser turrets that could have shot him down. another reason why i enjoy The Phantom Edit version of the movie, the whole chase scene is removed.

JediTricks
06-04-2007, 11:28 PM
I have a question that maybe someone here can answer: currently watching AOTC and while in the Gunship Obi Wan notices Count Dooku, to which Anakin replies "It's Dooku.... Shoot Him Down." then the clone pilot states "We're out of Rockets." My question is this:

Why didn't they just use the lasers to shoot him down. were both the lasers and the rockets depleated?That's a good point, there's a laser turret in the wing, a manned laser turret on the side, and a front laser turret.


to the best of my knowledge, they wanted to capture and question Dooku, not kill him. also, i don't think there were any troopers in the laser turrets that could have shot him down. another reason why i enjoy The Phantom Edit version of the movie, the whole chase scene is removed.Dude, if a laser was going to kill him, surely a ROCKET would! And even if there wasn't a man in the side ball turret, there's the ones in the nose and the wings that are controlled by the copilot.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-05-2007, 12:43 AM
He could probably evade the lasers easier, whereas the rockets could lock on to him.

sith_killer_99
06-05-2007, 09:25 AM
Also, if he had "deflectors" (shield) a laser might not do, whereas a rocket has more punch.

CaptainSolo1138
06-05-2007, 01:44 PM
Maybe it was for dramatic effect.

darko666
06-05-2007, 04:39 PM
Dude, if a laser was going to kill him, surely a ROCKET would!

not once in my post did i mention a rocket or say that it, along with a laser blast would/wouldn't kill him. i merely stated they could have shot him down. but the whole point of the chase was to capture Dooku, not kill him.

Snowtrooper
06-05-2007, 06:23 PM
I always figured that it was some form of subconscious conditioning, much like Order 66 was. The clones would be unable to harm or kill Dooku because of this. When the pilot states the he was out of rockets, it always seemed like he was lying or making excuses. I mean a big ol gunship should surely be able to shoot down a puny speeder. Anyways, thats my take on it.

CaptainSolo1138
06-06-2007, 07:40 AM
Oh, for the love of Pete! The gunship was out of rockets! Why does everything that happens in SW movie need to be picked over until a "deeper meaning" is realized?!

2-1B
06-06-2007, 11:17 AM
Because it's a SW movie, silly. lol

stillakid
06-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Oh, for the love of Pete! The gunship was out of rockets! Why does everything that happens in SW movie need to be picked over until a "deeper meaning" is realized?!

Boredom? Way to pass the time? Thesis paper due next Wednesday?

sith_killer_99
06-06-2007, 01:01 PM
Boredom? Way to pass the time? Thesis paper due next Wednesday?

Grab a SNICKERS!

DarkArtist
06-06-2007, 07:06 PM
dude i was just curious i mean i am one for being annoyed at critics and such who sit and analysis movies. i mean afterall they are just movies. my point was they could have just shot him down with the laser cannons instead of trying to get a target lock with the rockets.

but i do agree, it is a SW movie.

stillakid
06-07-2007, 12:12 AM
but i do agree, it is a SW movie.

I agree too. AOTC is a Star Wars movie. Mostly I know that because of the title on the poster, but it is difficult to tell sometimes. I'll agree to that too.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 12:45 AM
He could probably evade the lasers easier, whereas the rockets could lock on to him.Granted, Lucas feels Han can dodge laser blasts, but I don't think there's anything in the film that suggests the rockets are better at homing than lasers.


Also, if he had "deflectors" (shield) a laser might not do, whereas a rocket has more punch.We don't know that it's the case though, and we don't see anything suggesting his little bike has a shield.


not once in my post did i mention a rocket or say that it, along with a laser blast would/wouldn't kill him. Not directly, but your post was in response to DarkArtist saying "Why didn't they just use the lasers to shoot him down. were both the lasers and the rockets depleated?" So conversationally, it went:
DA: Why didn't they just use the lasers to shoot him down. were both the lasers and the rockets depleated?
d666: to the best of my knowledge, they wanted to capture and question Dooku, not kill him. also, i don't think there were any troopers in the laser turrets that could have shot him down. another reason why i enjoy The Phantom Edit version of the movie, the whole chase scene is removed.
JT: Dude, if a laser was going to kill him, surely a ROCKET would! And even if there wasn't a man in the side ball turret, there's the ones in the nose and the wings that are controlled by the copilot.


i merely stated they could have shot him down. but the whole point of the chase was to capture Dooku, not kill him.The question you were responding to asked why not use lasers to shoot him down, you responded to that question saying in essence that they didn't use lasers because they didn't want to kill him, only capture him. That's where I said "if a laser would kill him, a rocket would too". Does that explain why I said that?


I always figured that it was some form of subconscious conditioning, much like Order 66 was. The clones would be unable to harm or kill Dooku because of this. When the pilot states the he was out of rockets, it always seemed like he was lying or making excuses. I mean a big ol gunship should surely be able to shoot down a puny speeder. Anyways, thats my take on it.Could be, but they really should have explained that somehow then, and surely if that were the case Anakin or Obi-Wan should have said "... SO WHAT?!? SHOOT HIM WITH SOMETHING ELSE THEN!!!" ;)


Oh, for the love of Pete! The gunship was out of rockets! Why does everything that happens in SW movie need to be picked over until a "deeper meaning" is realized?!Because this one makes no sense the way it went down, why even bother with the exchange if they're not going to mention the other weapon systems we JUST saw them using? The whole chase scene is kind of stupid and could have been largely left out.

stillakid
06-07-2007, 01:10 AM
Also, these guys are pretty handy with the Force-push gambit, so why not do the ol' close yer eyes, reach out yer hand, and push thing to make the lil' bike crash?

The Prequels are so chock full o' holes that it's easier and shorter to talk about what works. I'll donate some space below for that discussion:


________________________________________________
place discussion of what works in the Prequels here
________________________________________________

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 02:08 AM
I don't see Dooku crashing from that, not only would it be hard to hit a moving target with the Force, especially when another Force-user is on it, but he's up in the air and not near many obstacles, a Force-push at best I could see making the bike bob up and down a little.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-07-2007, 02:27 AM
Granted, Lucas feels Han can dodge laser blasts, but I don't think there's anything in the film that suggests the rockets are better at homing than lasers.Lasers go straight. We saw in AOTC and ROTS that rockets can follow a target.

2-1B
06-07-2007, 10:40 AM
The Prequels are so chock full o' holes

and midichlorians (TPM and ROTS, anyway)

stillakid
06-07-2007, 01:11 PM
I don't see Dooku crashing from that, not only would it be hard to hit a moving target with the Force, especially when another Force-user is on it, but he's up in the air and not near many obstacles, a Force-push at best I could see making the bike bob up and down a little.


Hard for the Force to hit a moving target? Yer gonna have to explain that a little bit more.

Our lil' green friend says that the Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us. The Force isn't a missile technology. (Theoretically) it is merely a description of the energy (String Theory?) that IS everything and somehow, people in the Star Wars Universe know how to affect energy that is over there (pointing to a distant place) from over here. That something is moving or not is immaterial. A certified Force user should have no difficulty giving that cold-steel gaze upon anything and make it succumb to his whims.

And to explore the idea that Dooku could have shielded himself from a Force push in this situation, we have an example of a "Force push off" in ROTS. What happens is that like magnets, the two Force pushers give it their all, and if they can both push with equal force, they eventually push themselves away from the center point of Force contact. So, if a Force user on the Clone ship threw out a Force push to Dooku's speeder and Dooku gave a push back, then that itself would have had the desired affect and made Dooku weave off course or crash.

darko666
06-07-2007, 06:02 PM
So, if a Force user on the Clone ship threw out a Force push to Dooku's speeder and Dooku gave a push back, then that itself would have had the desired affect and made Dooku weave off course or crash.

that scene, if it had happened, would have made up for the rest of the film. actually, no it wouldn't. but it would have been funny to see.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 08:33 PM
Lasers go straight. We saw in AOTC and ROTS that rockets can follow a target.Yeah, but lasers are much, much faster than rockets even in the SW universe.


Hard for the Force to hit a moving target? Yer gonna have to explain that a little bit more.

Our lil' green friend says that the Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us. The Force isn't a missile technology. (Theoretically) it is merely a description of the energy (String Theory?) that IS everything and somehow, people in the Star Wars Universe know how to affect energy that is over there (pointing to a distant place) from over here. That something is moving or not is immaterial. A certified Force user should have no difficulty giving that cold-steel gaze upon anything and make it succumb to his whims.Yoda says a lot of crap that isn't exactly how it is. He says it's no problem to move stuff via the Force yet he strains and has to concentrate to lift the X-wing - and it's stationary. The ONLY time we see anybody use the Force to contain a rapidly-moving object larger than a piece of luggage is in AOTC when Yoda catches the debris from the ceiling Dooku just pulled down, and he doesn't simply fling it away, he has to stop its momentum and then concentrate to move those objects. Nature's kinetic energy seems to be more powerful than the users of the Force are able to deal with. Also, we've never seen that I can remember a Force user use his powers accurately on anything bigger than a breadbox while rapidly moving, Anakin doesn't move Zam's speeder with the Force, Obi-Wan doesn't Force-throw Jango while they're falling. Otherwise, why doesn't Vader just start tossing X-wings left and right in the Death Star trench? Because that's outside the scope of his abilities.


And to explore the idea that Dooku could have shielded himself from a Force push in this situation, we have an example of a "Force push off" in ROTS. What happens is that like magnets, the two Force pushers give it their all, and if they can both push with equal force, they eventually push themselves away from the center point of Force contact. So, if a Force user on the Clone ship threw out a Force push to Dooku's speeder and Dooku gave a push back, then that itself would have had the desired affect and made Dooku weave off course or crash.That's not what we see in ROTS, we see 2 guys push at each other and fling each other back a little, but you're talking about flinging Dooku and his high-powered speederbike (this is the only speederbike in the saga that flies that high) hard enough to push him into objects a hundred feet away from him. That's why I said "a Force-push at best I could see making the bike bob up and down a little", that magno-repelling thing you're talking about might push Dooku hard but he's on a bike which has its own power, its own thrust and lift, that's not the same as throwing around a 180-pound stationary person.

sith_killer_99
06-08-2007, 07:14 AM
The ONLY time we see anybody use the Force to contain a rapidly-moving object larger than a piece of luggage is in AOTC when Yoda catches the debris from the ceiling Dooku just pulled down, and he doesn't simply fling it away, he has to stop its momentum and then concentrate to move those objects. Nature's kinetic energy seems to be more powerful than the users of the Force are able to deal with. Also, we've never seen that I can remember a Force user use his powers accurately on anything bigger than a breadbox while rapidly moving

Actually, in the Clone Wars Micro-Series (Season 2), Yoda uses the force to take down massive attack ships!:p

JediTricks
06-09-2007, 03:46 AM
Actually, in the Clone Wars Micro-Series (Season 2), Yoda uses the force to take down massive attack ships!:p
... thanks for that. ;)