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View Full Version : Whinge: ROTJ revisited



Kithaba
07-28-2007, 12:16 PM
I just dared myself to watch ROTJ SE on DVD for the first time (I saw the original version in the cinema when it first came out). I wish to god I hadn't played that evil DVD now. I want to snap it into a million little pieces and hurl it off my balcony onto the streets below, but I can't because it belongs to my friend. I mean, I thought ANH SE was crap, so I wasn't expecting much, and as for the prequels - I don't even consider them to be Star Wars, so don't even go there. I try and pretend to myself that they don't exist, or that they're part of a different saga or something. I think of them like "Kiddies' Star Wars" - like how you can get fizzy pretend-alcoholic drinks for kids to drink on Xmas day, while the adults get stuck into the beer and wine. So I knew it would be bad, but I'm just so disappointed and upset that I had to post to have a whinge about it to get it out of my system so I can sleep tonight.

That stupid cartoony band member with the big gob was so irritating! 15808 That one scene where you get a close up of him "singing" spoilt the whole Jabba's palace scene for me, which I've always loved. I was trying to concentrate on the cool ones like Amanaman and Ephant Mon, and Oola (gotta love her!), but I just couldn't block it out. What's this fascination for 3D cartoon characters these days? They're going to date horribly. Might be OK for Toy Story, but not for Star Wars. It's such an insult. There might have been problems with the puppets, but I'd still far rather see them than stupid, animated characters.

Why the hell did they have to go and change Anakin's spirit? I want Luke's proper dad back, not that young guy from the Films Of Evil.

And at the end when this Jar-J...

excuse me a moment...

[gags]

Sorry. At the end when this Jar-Jar lookalike shouts "we-sa free!" I just wanted to burst into tears and puke at the same time. What were they thinking!!? They turned it into a run-of-the-mill Hollywood film for the kiddies. I've come away feeling utterly depressed, and wondering why I bother collecting the action figures. I feel conned! I feel like I've had all my childhood memories violently ripped away from me. I'm off to bed to feel miserable about it.:mad: :cry:

Thank god for the Emperor, who was still brilliant, and the likes of Harrison Ford, whose acting still shone through despite all the computer-generated crap going on around him. I must remember to hold on to the good things...

Mad Slanted Powers
07-28-2007, 12:53 PM
I definitely liked "Lapti Nek" better than the musical number they put in the Special Edition. The other stuff you mentioned doesn't really bother me as I liked the prequels for the most part.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Harrison Ford, really? One of the faults I find with ROTJ is that he's a little over the top in this one. I don't mind the other stuff much though.

bigbarada
07-28-2007, 01:20 PM
I think the Special Edition of ROTJ ruined my memories of that movie more than the other two. To me, ROTJ was always perfect, so there was no real need for any additional effects. When I watched Star Wars and ESB back in the late-80s/early-90s, I could definitely see things that could be "spruced up a bit" in terms of the special effects. However, what started out as just cleaning up the picture and enhancing the special effects, turned into revising the story and characters themselves.

If Star Wars became the most successful movie of all time without a Jabba the Hutt scene, then why did George suddenly think that a Jabba the Hutt scene was so necessary? The scene was clearly shot when Jabba was intended to be a very different character, so trying to shoehorn a giant slug next to Han Solo was doomed from the start. Plus, there was nothing revealed in that scene that wasn't already covered in the Greedo scene a few minutes before (we won't even discuss Greedo shooting first).

I'm not completely against CG animation in films, but I am against poorly executed, half-hearted CG which is what we got in the Special Editions.

Kithaba
07-28-2007, 01:40 PM
Don't even get me started on the Jabba scene. They managed to get Jabba to look cute! Jabba was never supposed to look cute. He was supposed to be an evil, disgusting slug. The beginning of ROTJ was good partly because we didn't know what Jabba looked like. It was the not knowing that drew you into that palace with the droids. These SE's leave nothing to the imagination. I don't like the new Sarlacc either. I preferred it just as a pit with teeth. As a kid I used to try and imagine what the creature under the sand might look like. Now that mouth thing is there it just fills in too many details, and as a result it's much less effective.

darko666
07-28-2007, 02:08 PM
Why the hell did they have to go and change Anakin's spirit? I want Luke's proper dad back, not that young guy from the Films Of Evil.

worst change in all of the SE movies. there was no need for the change, as Vader truly became good at the end of ROTJ. as a kid he was an emotional brat, same goes for his teenage years leading up to his turn to the dark side.

bigbarada
07-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Harrison Ford, really? One of the faults I find with ROTJ is that he's a little over the top in this one. I don't mind the other stuff much though.

I noticed a definite "Indiana Jones" influence on Han Solo, in ROTJ. Which is understandable when you consider that Lawrence Kasdan wrote the screenplays for Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Return of the Jedi. It just feels like he was having trouble keeping the characters separate by the time he wrote ROTJ.

Rocketboy
07-28-2007, 10:01 PM
Good God, you guys sound like George Lucas raped you.

Don't like it, don't watch it.
Its that simple.

Kithaba
07-28-2007, 11:18 PM
Good God, you guys sound like George Lucas raped you.

Don't like it, don't watch it.
Its that simple.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I'd known for sure how awful it was gonna be, I wouldn't have watched it for fear of permanent psychological damage.

Kidhuman
07-28-2007, 11:24 PM
Good God, you guys sound like George Lucas raped you.

Don't like it, don't watch it.
Its that simple.


Exactly the way I feel. Hence why I only watch the original theatrical releases. Makes my life easier and happier

Bel-Cam Jos
07-29-2007, 09:49 AM
[the following conversation translated from Renaissance Italian]

Michaelanglo: "Behold! "
Audience: "gasp! " and "wow! " and "what?"
Pope: "Why have you changed the ceiling? The Sistine Chapel was fine."
Michaelanglo: "Well, I was rushed to complete it, and never really got to make it the way I envisioned it."
Pope: "But you now have the two hands dueling with swords."
Michaelanglo: "I thought it would appeal to the younger generation more, besides I got to try out some new state-of-the-art painting techniques."
Pope: [sound of mouth gaping open]
Audience: "I don't know. I liked it the way I remembered it. I hear Michaelanglo is too interested in his new special arts and has lost his ability to tell a good story. What about your early works, Michaelanglo?"
Michaelanglo: "These are my masterpieces. These are my visions."
Audience: "But you've painted over the originals. How can we see them as the used to be."
Michaelanglo: "But those were inferior. This is the way I always wanted them to look, but didn't have the tools."
Audience: "I don't know. I think I'll check out that new artist, Petro Jacksono. He understands better."
Michaelanglo: "I don't think the audience is listening; I'll have to come up with something to fix that." [a loud sound builds in background]
Pope: "Well, as long as they keep paying..."
Michaelanglo: "No, I am not dependent on your funding. I got tired of the 'system' controlling my choices, so I invested in some other mediums and created my own business. Now, if you'll excuse me, some of those new young supporters have asked me to appear in one of their paintings."
Robo Chiccano: "Michaelanglo! We have this great idea..."

Kithaba
07-29-2007, 01:19 PM
LOL! That's thought-provoking stuff!

2-1B
07-29-2007, 02:11 PM
I don't understand why anyone would wait 10 and a half years to watch Episode 6 SE.

bigbarada
07-29-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't understand why anyone would wait 10 and a half years to watch Episode 6 SE.

He said that he watched the SE's in the theaters when they first came out, but just hasn't watched them again since.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-29-2007, 06:32 PM
George Lucas making the SEs is absolutely nothing like Michelangelo painting over the sistine chapel. The originals are still available, it's not like he recalled all of them. As far as the whole "it's not anamorphic!" thing (though not yet mentioned in this thread, it has been before), well, how many of you actually have widescreen TVs and think the picture really, truly sucks when you watch the original versions?

2-1B
07-29-2007, 08:33 PM
He said that he watched the SE's in the theaters when they first came out, but just hasn't watched them again since.

My mistake, when he said he saw the original version in the theater I thought he meant the original version of Episode 6, not the original version of the special edition of Episode 6. ;)

Anyway, yeah, Joh Yowza sucks. :p

Kithaba
07-29-2007, 09:35 PM
My mistake, when he said he saw the original version in the theater I thought he meant the original version of Episode 6, not the original version of the special edition of Episode 6. ;)

Anyway, yeah, Joh Yowza sucks. :p

No Caesar, you were right. I did mean the original version, not the SE. I saw ANH SE when it first came out, and thought it was crap, so it's that I deliberately avoided seeing the others. That's why I don't own them on DVD. I only watched ROTJ the other night because I had access to a friend's DVD collection, and the passage of time had made me forget how the 1st SE made me feel. I'm even feeling better about it today, actually. It was just that my initial reaction was one of huge disappointment because I have so many good memories of the original ROTJ.

2-1B
07-29-2007, 11:26 PM
Gottcha. :)

Well...if you thought ANH SE was bad, I can't fault you for skipping ROTJ SE because in many ways the alterations to ROTJ were WORSE than ANH. It depends on who you ask, but of course what matters in the end is your own opinion.

I had fun with ROTJ SE for the most part but I hated Joh Yowza and still do. I disliked the Beaky Sarlaac at first but now I don't mind it. The new musical ending was a big improvement, IMO.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your views on this. Like I said, I find it strange that someone would go over a decade without watching ROTJ SE but yours is a very unique situation so it is interesting to read your reactions. :)

DarthQuack
07-29-2007, 11:39 PM
The new musical ending was a big improvement, IMO.




See I enjoyed the original one, especially when you hear some old creepy laugh right as it's going to the credits...

JediTricks
08-05-2007, 02:57 PM
Yeah, there's nothing positive added to ROTJ:SE, the Jedi Rocks scene is downright painful and sloppy, comes dangerously close to breaking the 4th wall with the new Sy Snootles and this Joh Yowzah clown hamming right into the camera - and both look SO cartoony! Their eyes are especially sloppy, goofy junk that sticks out terribly. I always thought Lepti Nek may have moved a little puppetty, but they looked very "real" and sleazy, even their music, it all fit perfectly with the scene.

Spirit of Hayden makes no sense at all to me, but I've talked that out endlessly. Thankfully, it wasn't in the original SE theatrical release or I would have walked out.

I know the end sequence is meant to do something special with the whole galaxy celebrating, but it always feels so tacked on to me, and I don't care for that song. That and the Jedi Rocks song of the SE stick out like a sore thumb, reeking of the late '90s era rather than of SW.

Man, I can't believe the SEs are 10 years old.

And the Little Shop of Horrors Sarlacc addition doesn't fit at all, making the once mysterious and large creature now much smaller and obvious.

The only positive thing about this SE is that it proved Femi "Oola" Taylor is still totally able to play the character 15 years later without looking different.

And it's all so arbitrary, Lucas originally meant to do the Special Edition to salvage the damaged original print of ANH, then when he got further along he realized he could "make things better" because he was so personally wounded during the making of it, then near the last minute he realized it might be "fun" to do it with the others and did them only because he could, not because of any need.



George Lucas making the SEs is absolutely nothing like Michelangelo painting over the sistine chapel. The originals are still available, it's not like he recalled all of them. As far as the whole "it's not anamorphic!" thing (though not yet mentioned in this thread, it has been before), well, how many of you actually have widescreen TVs and think the picture really, truly sucks when you watch the original versions?It's not just the widescreen thing (my new laptop has a widescreen display), the image quality on every single frame of the non-anamorphic is about 40% lower quality than anamorphic. And yeah, even on my SD TV I could see the visual difference in that quality. So the only originals we have are woefully substandard - AND the prequels have made the issue of image quality and effects stick out in the OT when they didn't have to, nothing matches up.

El Chuxter
08-05-2007, 03:01 PM
Spirit of Hayden makes no sense at all to me, but I've talked that out endlessly. Thankfully, it wasn't in the original SE theatrical release or I would have walked out.

What good would it be to walk out on a movie with only a minute or two left? :)

There were several things that could've been done to improve ROTJ. Expand the space battle. Restore the sandstorm scene. Finish the B-Wing attack sequence. Throw in Crix Madine piloting a cruiser.

Instead, the only actual improvements are slight reduction of matte lines and the Photoshopping Vader's head to be more consistent with Hayden's face and the damage he sustained on Mustaphar (though that wasn't even in the cards ten years ago).

I do like the new Ceremony music, though it can't replace the original. "Jabba Rocks" is kinda Disneyish, and the blues jam totally doesn't fit SW.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-05-2007, 03:13 PM
What good would it be to walk out on a movie with only a minute or two left? :)That's exactly what I was going to say.

The DVD version of ROTJ SE at least seems to have improved the Rancor scene. It no longer looks like Luke is battling against a movie screen.

JediTricks
08-06-2007, 12:13 AM
What good would it be to walk out on a movie with only a minute or two left? :)Because with the SEs, me and my buddy Rick saw them on opening day each time twice back-to-back at the Mann Chinese theater in Hollywood, plus if I had walked out I would have missed out on the freebie figure that day.


There were several things that could've been done to improve ROTJ. Expand the space battle. Restore the sandstorm scene. Finish the B-Wing attack sequence. Throw in Crix Madine piloting a cruiser.

Instead, the only actual improvements are slight reduction of matte lines and the Photoshopping Vader's head to be more consistent with Hayden's face and the damage he sustained on Mustaphar (though that wasn't even in the cards ten years ago).The original SE theatrical didn't even change Vader's head, and the one area they REALLY needed to fix matte lines - Luke & the Rancor (where the lines are exacerbated by horrible lighting mismatches) - they ignored it.