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View Full Version : Spoilers in the AOTC's Figure Section: A Discussion



Beast
02-08-2002, 02:08 PM
Ok, there is a pretty fired up discussion going on right now in this forum about spoilers and the figures. Some of you, have stated that it's ok to talk about the figures....but not the movie that the figures are from. This makes absolutly no sense whatsoever. Soon you'll be asking for us to only refer to figures in vague ways, like it's some giant X Files mystery. These are toys, for a movie that hasn't opened yet. Every one of the figures that we have seen so far has been ripe with spoilers. What do you want from Hasbro, to put the first figure waves on blank cards with the bubble covered with a giant cardboard insert that screams "Spoilers, do not open this figure until you've seen the movie."

Seems to be thats what some of you want here. I do respect the right of anyone here to not to have to read spoilers. But attacking anyone that talks about them for being wrong to post them is silly. Noone is holding a gun to anyone's head making them look in the AOTC's figure forum. This forum is meant for to discuss the figures, as well as how movie accurate the figures are, and we have a right to discuss the movie if we want to. None of you are being made to read anything in this forum. If spoilers really bug you so much, stop reading the AOTC's forum, and don't buy any of the figures until you have seen the movie.

You have free will, no one is making you come into the AOTC's figure forum, and no one is making you read these things. If you came here to see the images of the figures and to discuss them, you yourself are responsible for what you read and discuss. You are breaking your own no spoiler rules by doing that...by looking at pictures of the carded figures, you are going against what Lucas and Hasbro has decided you shouldn't see until they show it. Whatever Hasbro has shown on their site, and on Starwars.com according to you is all you should know and have seen by now. Remeber, you're responsible for your own actions, if your putting yourself in a place that has a high level of spoilers and you don't wanna read them, dont go into that place.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

gibbspaulus
02-08-2002, 02:11 PM
Good point - well made.

It is impossible to avoid discussing things about figures (other than 'he is green with tentacles out of his head') without some spoilerdom going on.

Anyway, it was much more politely put than a similar initiative put forward earlier today.

T-t-that's all folks

InsaneJediGirl
02-08-2002, 02:14 PM
I agree with both of you.

If you dont want to know about the figures,because they
are spoilers in your opinion,then dont read anything.

Lord Tenebrous
02-08-2002, 02:21 PM
I'll just post over at Rebel Scum. At least they cover all their liabilities and say that there are spoilers in the AOTC figure section.


Problem solved.

IcebergSlim
02-08-2002, 02:23 PM
Discussing figures is one thing. But to say, "this figure looks great! I can't wait to see him when he *insert part of the plot here*" is another.

General Veers
02-08-2002, 02:39 PM
Well seed JarJarBinks!:D

I agree, if it's Episode 2 section with the movie's action figures, of course ther's going to be spoilers. IF you don't want spoilers stay out of the Episode 2 section.:frus:

Lord Skywalker
02-08-2002, 02:48 PM
Wow, the board is really buzzing on this one.

As I said in the other thread, the only REAL solution to this would be if Sir Steve posted 2 sections 1 for AOTC figures with "spoiler" alert and one with "no spoiler" alert.

Honestly, as the movie draws nearer the spoilers will only continue to gain momentum.

I too agree that if someone wants to avoid spoilers they should avoid AOTC threads.

Finding out that a Jango Fett figure will have a removable head, or whatever, will definatly spoil part of the movie. Some features on figures will serve as spoilers.

What's more, if you read the card backs you will get even more spoilers. These are designed to give info on the movie!!:crazed: As with the POTF2, Freeze Frame and EP1 figures if you remember correctly. Heck EP1 figs even gave away lines from the movie!:crazed:

JEDIpartner
02-08-2002, 03:28 PM
I would love to say that a solution such as the one you presented would work, but I think the larger percentage of spoilers are pretty much unintentional. I think that people get going on a subject and it happens to spill over into that "forbidden territory". You can't bloody well just type, type, type and then (accidentally) insert a spoiler and think Oh, bugger! Can't very well put that in here!!! guess I'll just delete this and head over to the SPOILER section. I just don't think it would work. I think the figures alone as well as the vehicles are spoilers... Anakin's got a speeder?? Zam Wesell's got one, too??? There's a Jango Fett?? He's got a Slave I??? WOWWWWWW!!!!

We can all try our best, but I think a certain number of things some would consider SPOILERS are inevitable.

Lman316
02-08-2002, 03:30 PM
Seeing as how I am one of the people who started this, I’ll stick around to see how this discussion goes. But I want to make myself clear on this so there is no misunderstanding.
Okay, I will give you that seeing some of those figures might give some things away (i.e. Count Dooku, I would hope most know what I’m talking about so I don’t have to say it). But even if I know about that, I don’t know what’s going to happen to him in the movie. And I’ll even go so far as to give you the R2-D2 thing (again, I’m not going to talk about it), because it’s not really that big of a spoiler for the movie and wouldn’t ruin the end.
However, if someone tells me that someone is going to die, YES, that will ruin the movie for me, it would basically give away the ending. I would know who’s NOT going to be around in Episode 3. So why would someone have to relay that information in the TOY section? What does the death of a character have to do with the toys themselves? Or (if someone ever said anything) what would the ending of the movie have to do with the toys?
Hypothetically, let’s say we were anticipating the release of the Empire Strikes Back. And we were waiting on the toys. Okay, so say someone knows that Luke will be wearing the Bespin outfit and says something like: “I hope we get a Bespin outfit Luke.” That really wouldn’t give anything away. But then you have people saying something like: “I hope we get a Bespin outfit Luke with his hand chopped off right after Darth Vader tells him that he’s his father!” THAT would give something away….obviously. How does telling people that Darth Vader is Luke’s father having anything to do with the toys themselves? (And I know I’m probably setting myself up for people saying: “Darth Vader was Luke’s father? You ruined it for me!”) :crazed:
So, to sum up, how does telling about the death of a character fit in the toy section? Or the ending of the movie? Or maybe even the entire plot line? How does something about the FILM – that has nothing to do with TOYS – fit into the TOY section?

Beast
02-08-2002, 03:35 PM
Perhaps we should ask Sir Steve to post a sticky thread here in the forums for all the people that don't want to read spoilers. Just a quick warning notice to all that since this is an E2 toy discussion that there will be spoilers in many of the threads. And that if they don't want to see them, that it might be best to avoid this section until May 16th when the movie opens.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JEDIpartner
02-08-2002, 03:41 PM
I think that would be a splendid idea! :p

Beast
02-08-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Lman316
Hypothetically, let’s say we were anticipating the release of the Empire Strikes Back. And we were waiting on the toys. Okay, so say someone knows that Luke will be wearing the Bespin outfit and says something like: “I hope we get a Bespin outfit Luke.” That really wouldn’t give anything away. But then you have people saying something like: “I hope we get a Bespin outfit Luke with his hand chopped off right after Darth Vader tells him that he’s his father!” THAT would give something away….obviously. How does telling people that Darth Vader is Luke’s father having anything to do with the toys themselves? (And I know I’m probably setting myself up for people saying: “Darth Vader was Luke’s father? You ruined it for me!”) :crazed:

Ok, hypothetically lets say the the new movie in may was going to be Empire Strikes Back. And that we knew there was going to be a figure released like the POTF2 Luke: Bespin and it was going to feature a removable hand. You would complain that someone would mention the toy was going to have a removable hand. Toys go hand in hand with the movie. Thats why they make them, so that kids and collector's can replay scenes from the movies. Saying that the toys have nothing to do with the movies makes absolutly no sense. The figures are toys based on the movie. I you don't want spoilers, it's simple enough...don't read the AOTC's figure section. That way unlike all of us that do want to read the posts here, you will be 100% suprised when the movie opens.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JetsAndHeels
02-08-2002, 03:49 PM
Yeah, and I lose my head!!

chewie
02-08-2002, 03:55 PM
Yeah. Its just silliness to get upset over spoilers in the AOTC toys section. All the toys are spoilers for the movie. Anybody who doesn't want spoiled has no business in that forum. Very simple to me.

187-Maul
02-08-2002, 05:38 PM
but jarjar there is a big differnece between knowing that luke loses his hand and knowing by who and why this happens
I really don't care about knowing who is a "good guy" and who is a "bad guy" - it gives nothing away about the movie story
and of course I've seen the trailers and know who's a sith and stuff
I just wanted to ask if you could turn it down JUST A LITTLE BIT about the moviestory - I didn't want to start a big discussion about it

Beast
02-08-2002, 05:47 PM
It doesn't matter though 187-Maul. This is a forum discussing toys that arn't out yet, for a movie thats not out yet. If people that don't want to read spoilers really mean that, then they should be avoiding this forum, just as much as they should be avoiding the E2 forum section in the movies section. Like I said, the toys are an extention of the movie, so they will be discussed together. Just like they are in every other figure forum.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks[FONT=arial]

stillakid
02-08-2002, 06:00 PM
Lman said it all correctly. There is absolutely no reason why a toy can't be discussed without "giving away" what you think might happen in the movie. I say it that way because all spoilers are pure conjecture until someone has actually seen the film or read the screenplay. The last I checked, nobody here claims to have done that for AOTC.

I have no idea who the f*** Dooka is and don't really care to find out until I see the movie. That shouldn't disqualify me from being able to "see" the figure ahead of time. Just because the picture is there and you guys think that you know it all because of some unconfirmed "spoiler" information doesn't mean that it has to be tied into a discussion of the toy line.

It's called self-restraint. I use it myself by not wandering into threads that say "spoiler alert" or whatever. Give it a try sometime.

Beast
02-08-2002, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
I have no idea who the f*** Dooka is and don't really care to find out until I see the movie. That shouldn't disqualify me from being able to "see" the figure ahead of time. Just because the picture is there and you guys think that you know it all because of some unconfirmed "spoiler" information doesn't mean that it has to be tied into a discussion of the toy line.

Then don't buy the toy, or look at card backs until after you have seen the movie. Because Dooku is gonna be discussed on the card back atleast for his figure. He'll also be mentioned on the back of others, like the fact he appears on the back of the Deluxe Mace Windu figure. And wait til Hasbro actually shows you the figure, why come into the forums and spoil the actual unveil of the figure from Hasbro. You can't say you don't want spoilers and then go browsing around forums to see figures before you're supposed to. A spoiler is a spoiler, no matter how severe it is.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Lman316
02-08-2002, 06:58 PM
I’m doing a lot of hypotheticals here, but it’s only because I don’t want to talk about the spoilers that I’ve (accidentally) read. But here goes with another one…
Okay, so let’s say that in AOTC, Obi Wan dies (I just made this up, as most would guess). And of course, there would be people that would know about this and those that wouldn’t know about this.
So, we see the figures of the new Obi-Wan Kenobi. Someone comes along and says: “Man, that Obi-Wan figure really sucks. I’m glad he dies in the movie.”
How did telling people that Obi-Wan dies have anything to do with that figure? If you wanted to talk about him dying, you should go into the film section and talk about it.
Like I said before, I’ll give you some (Dooku, maybe R2), but others are just not necessary to be discussed in the toy section. Unless of course they came out with a corpse Obi-Wan figure – which frankly wouldn’t happen. If they did, and I saw that figure, THEN it would be my fault, because a figure like that would ruin the movie. BUT nothing that I’ve seen as of now has ruined the movie. Like I said in another post, I saw the Reek and Acklay – it didn’t ruin anything for me, because I wondered what these creatures would be doing in AOTC. But then someone would come along (going back to my hypothetical here) and say that the Acklay kills Obi-Wan. I never saw anything on the toy that would tell me what it does in the movie. Only people talking about the characters has ruined it for me.
All that I’m asking here (because I have every right to talk about these figures without giving the ending of the movie away) is that people put a simple, seven letter word in your responses. Just say: SPOILER, (or maybe even Potential SPOILER, if you’re not sure). That’s not asking too much. People could just skip over those responses and read the others. And I’m with Rollo. Who is anyone to say that I should stay out of here? I like to read these forums too. And until recently, the movie hadn’t been ruined for me. Like I said, I saw the figures (which told me nothing about what would happen to those characters!) and I was commenting on them, and I was enjoying posting here.
I’m basically reiterating here. But come on, someone asks about the articulation on Zam, and then someone has to go and tell what happens to her in the movie. Although it was edited, it had nothing to do with the person’s question about the articulation. No one can tell me that it did. No one asked anyone to post what happened to Zam. In a nutshell, it sounds like this: “What’s the articulation like on the Zam figure?” “Well, it sucks and you see in the movie, she does this and this and this, and then in the end….”
Again, that has nothing to do with the toy.
And on the subject of the carded figures...no one has to look at the back of the cards. Someone could see the figure without reading the info on the cards. They could see the figure, say it's neat or something, and that would be it. Nothing major is given away there.

stillakid
02-08-2002, 09:50 PM
Exactly! The only reason to drop a "spoiler" is to show off the fact that you think you know something ahead of time to the rest of us. I can look at a figure without reading a word on the card. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

LTBasker
02-09-2002, 02:37 AM
Captain Typho (Pilot) - With Removeable Helmet and Blaster
Tusken Raider MOTHER - With child
Padme (Arena) - With torn outfit and pylon w/ chains
Shaak Ti - With lightsaber and blaster bolt reflect.

Case closed. The minute you read what a figure is about you learn stuff from the movie, learning there is a tusken raider mother with child is a major spoiler, heck even just hearing that a figure is going to have a force thing, a blaster bolt reflect, or even just a blaster is a spoiler to the film. If you don't want spoilers, checking out the action figures is not the best thing to do. People are going to want to know the full scene, and just looking at a figure signifys a spoiler. Like oh say... Deluxe Mace taking down a Battle Droid, or like it was, Anakin's Speeder, Jango's Slave 1, Zam's Speeder, Obi's Fighter, etc., etc., etc.. If you're trying to dodge spoilers, checking out scene-specific toys from the film is definitely a bad place to be checking out, period. Just names are spoilers to people, then clothes, features, etc.

So if you don't want spoilers, go to Episode II (No Spoilers) because technically, there is no way to sugar coat information about a scene-specific figure.

Beast
02-09-2002, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
So if you don't want spoilers, go to Episode II (No Spoilers) because technically, there is no way to sugar coat information about a scene-specific figure.

Amen, it's nice to see that more people here realize that there is going to be spoilers flying around the AOTC's figure section. There will be even more once the Toy Fair coverage starts. Seems it's just a few people that are against it.

Sir Steve really needs to put up a spoiler warning sticky post at the top of the forum. Because with as many people here discussing the figures as well as the movie in this forum, there is no way to avoid spoiler posts.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar BInks

stillakid
02-09-2002, 08:40 AM
Knowing what a figure (character) looks like is a far far cry from wanting (needing) to know one iota about the movie that it is coming from. Some very solid reasons have been given that should persuade some of you from dropping your "psychic" fore-knowledge of what you hope will be in the movie, but clearly you are more interested in showing off to one another (ie, "I know more than you do", or "hey did you hear what this guy is supposed to do in the movie?"). Pointless discussion tied into an action figure. Seeing a speeder or the face of an alien doesn't tell me anything about the movie. Stumbling upon hopeful conjecture might. That's what is simple here.

mabudonicus
02-09-2002, 09:24 AM
I must agree with the Binks on this one- if somone REALLY didn't want to spoil ANYTHING about the film, why would they be logging on to a discussion forum called hasbro:AOTC? Indeed, I would agree with stillakid to some extent in that maybe a bit more restraint could be exercised, but it is pretty difficult. I've caught myself incorporating some pretty big whoppers in posts(which of course I changed), and I think that most people assume that if you're looking about in an AOTC forum, you're not too worried about spoilers. Perhaps a strictly controlled hasbro AOTC "official" forum could exist, with the current one being renamed AOTC:unofficial. This might help, as anyone looking at unofficial ANYTHING is full of hooey if they cry about finding"spoilers" in a forum with that name. To the anti spoiler folks- just don't click on anything with AOTC in the name, and you'll be less likely to find things out about it(I know, that's why I proposed a soulution first) BTW- didya know that there's a new SW film coming out *hunhh-ooof* sorry about that.

Lman316
02-09-2002, 11:30 AM
I guess I keep saying the same thing here, but it’s only because I get the same argument back: “Well, if you see a figure, that’s a spoiler.” Okay, so maybe it is. But like Stillakid and myself have been trying to tell you, seeing that figure doesn’t necessarily tell someone what that character is going to do in the movie. There are only two ways that I will know what that character does in the movie: one, I see the movie, or two, someone here has to talk about it (and I know I could read the book or the screenplay, when they come out, but I was trying to keep this short).:crazed:
I’ve said it over and over: there is no reason to give away major chunks of the plot to talk about the toy. All those hypothetical situations I’ve given (because I don’t want to pass on the spoilers that I’ve heard) were perfect points. You wouldn’t need to tell that Darth Vader was Luke’s father to talk about a Bespin Luke figure; you wouldn’t need to say that Darth Maul dies at the end of Episode 1 to talk about a Darth Maul figure, and so on.
I’m not asking for a separate section here, because that seems to be what people are thinking. I know that there are spoilers in this section, and I’m not necessarily asking you to stop posting them. But you could at least give some warning to posting them. I don’t want to go into a thread labeled: “Articulation” (or something like it) and hear countless posts of how Obi-Wan is going to die (made up, see previous posts). Like I said, just say “SPOILER” in your response. That way everyone who wants to stay in here can stay in here without knowing the entire plot [again, the plot. I’m not talking about seeing a character (or seeing a weapon), because again, I won't know what those characters will do in AOTC. I might know what they look like, but I won’t know what they do] of the movie before the movie’s even out.

Lord Tenebrous
02-09-2002, 11:39 AM
Knowing what a figure (character) looks like is a far far cry from wanting (needing) to know one iota about the movie that it is coming from


You didn't have to wait this long. The Official Site has had pictures of most of these characters for a while now.


But the second you looked at pictures of items that weren't supposed to be released yet, you surrendered your right to remain spoiler-free. They are spoiler images that give away parts of the plot, just like the storyboards did, and just like all the spy reports do.

But I look ahead. I know most of the film, and the contexts of the characters. The reason I started in the first place was because there was nothing but whining in this forum, and the only way to make things better was to bring in some spoiler context and say, you know, these were made this way for a reason, and this is why. You guys didn't complain about the paint and the cards, you complained about the poses. And there's no way to keep that spoiler-free if you're actually supposed to appreciate the work that's gone into these to provide movie-realistic portrayals.

So don't push double standards on me. This forum is not only for commenting on Hasbro's work, but also for discussing the figures for diaramas, new versions, characters we want, etc. When you discuss action figures, you discuss characters and what they interact with. So if you want no part of that, make a toys thread in AOTC non-spoilers, and talk about the pretty articulation and paint jobs.

And if you don't want to hear what I'm saying, just click that little "-" by my name. Nobody's forcing you to read. And you should know by now what to expect with my posts. Full critique and discussion.

stillakid
02-09-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous


But the second you looked at pictures of items that weren't supposed to be released yet, you surrendered your right to remain spoiler-free.

BS. It's not your place to decide what rights we have or not. If I want to look at a photo and hear what a figure is like, that's one thing. Listening to "spoiler" show-offs is another. If you want to talk about the movie, take those comments to the spoiler movie thread. If you want to discuss the toy itself (sculpt, articulation, color, pack-ins, packaging, etc) then talk about it in the toy section. There is a crystal clear line there that you obviously don't care to see. Ignorance has never been a good excuse for anything.

Beast
02-09-2002, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
BS. It's not your place to decide what rights we have or not. If I want to look at a photo and hear what a figure is like, that's one thing. Listening to "spoiler" show-offs is another. If you want to talk about the movie, take those comments to the spoiler movie thread. If you want to discuss the toy itself (sculpt, articulation, color, pack-ins, packaging, etc) then talk about it in the toy section. There is a crystal clear line there that you obviously don't care to see. Ignorance has never been a good excuse for anything.

Oh, but it's your right to dictate what rules the forums follow. Most message boards discussing the figures are tagged with spoiler warnings. I love how people complain their rights being violated, when they are stomping on the rights of other people to discuss the toys, and their context in the movie. Ever heard the term, the majority rules, well the people discussing the figures and how accutrate they are to the movie, and hoping hasbro does this and does that, that you are calling spoilers is the majority. There are only a few vocal non-spoiler people that are complaining.

If the very first Darth Maul figure that Hasbro made would have had the cut in half action, you bet your arse would would have been discussing that. You need to realize, exposing yourself to a section with the discussion of unreleased toys, for an unreleased movie is going to give you spoilers. Its inevitible. Toys expand upon the movie, there is no way of discussing the figures, and their poses, and how movie accurate they are, without discussing spoilers. Like the Arena Battle figures, people complain about the action poses, we are gonna discuss what happens in the movie that makes them required.

I still think Sir Steve needs to post that sticky Spoilers Warning here, since there are a few vocal people complaining. Rebelscum was smart, they had the spoiler warning in place since they opened the AOTC's figure thread. The E1 forum had the same thing going on here back in 1998-1999.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

c7791
02-09-2002, 01:52 PM
listen, perhaps these subjects should have a spoiler attached to them. By their nature discussing figures for a movie that hasn't come out yet will include spoilers. I AM interested in seeing these figures and what functions they have etc, i am NOT interested in someone giving away a major plot point in their conjecture about these figures. If you know something SENSOR YOURSELF. Without a spoiler free figure section have enough sense to see the line between discussing action figures and plot points about the movie THAT THESE FIGURES DO NOT EXPOSE. If you want to discuss unreleased figures post a thread, that way people like me can pick and choose the spoilers they want to view.

Beast
02-09-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by c7791
If you know something SENSOR YOURSELF. Without a spoiler free figure section have enough sense to see the line between discussing action figures and plot points about the movie THAT THESE FIGURES DO NOT EXPOSE. If you want to discuss unreleased figures post a thread, that way people like me can pick and choose the spoilers they want to view.

And who apppointed anyone here information police. We have a right to discuss the figures, and since the figures are based on the movie, the movie as well. This isnt some giant goverment conspericy where we have to censor ourselves. People should have enough sense that if they wanna avoid spoilers, you avoid the section. Just the same way you avoid playboy, if you dont wanna see nude pictures. You are responsible for what you view, if you dont want spoilers, avoid a section where they are rampant.

And, the figures do so expose spoilers, look at for instance the R2-D2 (Coruscant Sentry). The figure is ripe with spoiler info, just look at the fact its packaged with those "centipides". And the card tells what they are, and what scene they are in. You actually think that people arn't going to talk about the "centipides" in the figure section? All of the figures are ripe with spoilers. There is no such thing as good spoilers or bad spoilers, if you really want no spoilers, avoid the AOTC's figure section til after May.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

c7791
02-09-2002, 02:13 PM
you're missing the point. i expect these forums to discuss the figures that have been released, i don't expect to discuss a figure that no one has seen that gives away a pivotal piece of the movie. i.e jango Fett's demise.

Beast
02-09-2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by c7791
you're missing the point. i expect these forums to discuss the figures that have been released, i don't expect to discuss a figure that no one has seen that gives away a pivotal piece of the movie. i.e jango Fett's demise.

No, I'm getting the point. If they released a figure like that, it would be an AOTC's figure, correct? So why is that a taboo subject to talk about. There have been NO figures released yet, so I guess we should talk about nothing? We are going to discuss the upcoming figures, thats what the forum is for. And talking about the movies in conjunction with the figures makes total sense. After all, the figures are meant to be played with, to expand, and re-create scenes from the movie. By the way, you broke your own wish to not discuss spoilers. Double standards when you're trying to prove your point, ehh?

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
02-09-2002, 02:49 PM
JJB has no intention of following convention nor following rules of any kind. As he said, the best route to take is one around him. Eventually he's liable to anger enough people with his non-conformist attitudes. In the meantime, this is a no win argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge common sense. Ignore him.:)

Beast
02-09-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
JJB has no intention of following convention nor following rules of any kind. As he said, the best route to take is one around him. Eventually he's liable to anger enough people with his non-conformist attitudes. In the meantime, this is a no win argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge common sense. Ignore him.:)

What rules, there are no rules stated here. This is a moderated message board, owned by Sir Steve. And its a forum about discussing figures that, have not been released yet, for a movie that has not been released yet. Sir Steve has never once stated that there would be no spoilers allowed in the AOTC's figure forum. Infact the very fact that we are discussing unreleased action figures leads to spoilers. Who's the ones being non-conformist...there are more people that have been agreeing with me, then there are with no spoilers. I love people that preach that someone isnt acknowledging commen sense, when their arguments make no sense at all. :crazed:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Lman316
02-09-2002, 06:35 PM
Okay, so someone sees the new R2-D2 figure, and they see something that looks like centipedes. So, I guess, automatically that tells you what they are and what they’re there for? Oh, yeah, black centipede-looking things are this…and in the movie they do this…
Yes, we keep seeming to go around and around on the same argument and it still seems like I’m not being clear enough.
Here’s where it seems that we’re currently at:
“If you don’t want to see the figures and ruin the movie, then don’t come in here…”
“But seeing the figures isn’t what ruins it for me. The actual figures don’t ruin anything for me, it’s people adding plot lines along with their comments.”
“But if you don’t want to see the figures, then you shouldn’t come in here. There are spoilers in here.”
And I’m also getting, as an argument to some of my hypothetical situations: “But if they made a Darth Maul that split in two in the first wave of Episode 1 figures, then you’d be discussing it or you would have seen it and ruined it for yourself.” Okay, maybe so, but that would never happen. Hasbro and Lucas would never allow that to happen – they wouldn’t want to ruin the film. (“That's a no-brainer”).
Those who want absolutely nothing to do with Episode 2 – until it comes out – have remained out of this section, it seems. There are people, however, that like to see what the characters look like and what the figures look like. And, I have said before, that yes that may be somewhat of a spoiler. BUT, as I have said NUMEROUS times, just seeing those toys tells me nothing about what they do in the movie.
JJB says that my argument makes no sense, however I think it does. There are people that would rather not know the end of the movie when they’re talking about the slicing action with Kit Fisto. (Before I see a: “Well, you know who Kit Fisto is, so you’ve spoiled it for yourself) Yes, I know who Kit Fisto is……but once again, I don't know what he'll be doing in the movie. I guess I could assume he’ll be using his lightsaber because he has chopping action (but Eeth Koth was placed in an action pose, and he never used his lightsaber in Episode 1), but I don’t know who against, for how long, or even where he might use it. But others will take it upon themselves to tell me. And I have no option of skipping that response because I wouldn’t know they would post it.
However, I saw that JJB has done a new thread and mentioned that there would be spoilers in there. I know that it probably doesn’t mean much, but thank you. I know to stay away from that thread. I can go into other threads and talk about the poses, the articulation, the accessories, pack ins, etc. And reading and talking about posts like that (which I would assume are allowed in here) would not ruin anything in the movie.
I was never really trying to tell anyone that they were wrong, although it’s kind of hard to see anything else from what I was saying (and if that’s how I came across, then I apologize). I can see a few things from your perspective, but not all. I just wanted to have some warning when I’m reading posts that might not have anything to do with the plot of AOTC. I was never really asking for complete censorship, just the warning. I was hoping that all who wanted to be in here could be in here. Whether they wanted to know the ending of the movie or not.

Lord Tenebrous
02-09-2002, 07:17 PM
Two things could be helpful.


1) Moderator/Staff input. They created the forum, they should know the policy, or;


2) A color more transparant than this so we can include spoilers, but they'll need to be highlighted to read.


I'm not trying to cause any problems, I just find it unusual that many don't view the toy pictures as spoilers.

Beast
02-09-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous
Two things could be helpful.
1) Moderator/Staff input. They created the forum, they should know the policy, or;
2) A color more transparant than this so we can include spoilers, but they'll need to be highlighted to read.
I'm not trying to cause any problems, I just find it unusual that many don't view the toy pictures as spoilers.

Agreed Lord Tenebrous. I'm quite suprised that Sir Steve or one of the other Moderators/Staff havent commented at all on this. Of course most of them are dealing with Toy Fair right now. I think both choices should be put in affect, I would gladly use the highlight to read spoiler tags, if they were implimented. Of course there are people that won't, that will just leave the spoilers visible, but it may make the anti-spoiler crowd a little happier. That and as I and a couple others have called for, an actually sticky thread warning people of spoilers.

I find the fact that people don't consider early not official figure pictures spoilers either. Especially with spoiler accessories and names slapped all over the card. But ehh, Im not one of the anti-spoiler crowd, so I dont know. This place will get so much better in May after everyone has seen the movie and we can just talk about whatever we want, without worry of cheesing someone off. Wish may was next month. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
02-09-2002, 09:42 PM
Up until now, we (the moderating staff) have assumed that anybody talking about AOTC toys would be "spoiled" by those toys, so they wouldn't worry about spoilers. This has worked for the past few months and worked for Hasbro's Episode I line as well, but obviously, some folks don't consider images of the toys "spoilers" anymore. While I'm sympathetic with the plight of the spoiler-free-fan, on this issue, I think we're already being spoiled by the images of the toys. However, if you want to discuss the toys in a spoiler-free environment, you may do so in the POTJ section; however, the AOTC Toy section will remain spoiler-rich - this AOTC section already has months and months of spoilers.

Any thread made in the POTJ section about AOTC must include "AOTC" in the title and a big NO SPOILERS in the opening post. You'll have to tread VERY lightly on the spoiler issue, even toy details posted on SW.com or SW.Hasbro could be considered spoilers, so please be careful or the thread could end up getting mangled by moderator editing (probably by my heavy hand) or simply moved over to the AOTC toy section.

In a few months, this won't matter, but for now, this is how it has to be (or until we figure something better out).

stillakid
02-09-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous


But I look ahead. I know most of the film, and the contexts of the characters.


Just curious, when was that advanced screening and how did you get tickets? Or were you mailed a copy of the screenplay?:rolleyes:

stillakid
02-09-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous

But the second you looked at pictures of items that weren't supposed to be released yet, you surrendered your right to remain spoiler-free.

When I heard the title of the new movie, does that mean that I gave up my rights at that moment? The point is, who draws the line at which something disqualifies us from being "spoiler" free?:confused:

Lord Tenebrous
02-09-2002, 10:21 PM
It's not polite to bait. :zzz:

Beast
02-09-2002, 10:40 PM
Thank you JediTricks. I'm going to take your post and place it in a new thread at the start of the forums, so everyone knows. Hope you dont mind. If at all possible for you to make it sticky, that would be great. I appreciate someone finally stating somthing about all this. I agree, I think the toys give away major spoilers, which is our hole point. Thanks again for giving us the staff ruling on this hot button topic.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

GNT
02-09-2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
There have been NO figures released yet

remember WattosJunkyard was selling AOTC figures as well as many auctions on Ebay so they have been released, but not offically :)

stillakid
02-09-2002, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous
It's not polite to bait. :zzz:

You're right! Just for my own amusement, I've set a few "traps" in the past couple of days and "caught" exactly who I expected to. It's kinda funny...to me anyway.:rolleyes:

Everybody just chill...

PloKoon2385
02-10-2002, 02:08 AM
Quite a curious idea. I myself have thought that several times but like many others came to the conclusion that what else would you talk about in the Ep II section besides some sort of spoilers? And usually those who really want to remain spoiler-free, avoid anything that says, Ep II. So, I don't think it does anybody any harm.

Obi-Don
02-10-2002, 07:15 AM
I never take anything to heart in the spoilers section anyway. I always thought it was fun to come up with ideas on what may happen or what will happen. Spoilers never ruin the movie for me it only makes me want to see it more.

I can see both points here and the only thing I can say is don't go into a section that have spoilers in them. Also the person posting should put into the thread that there maybe spoilers here,even if they are not sure if it is a spoiler. I guess there is no way of really protecting yourself from spoilers if you spend your time reading the mags and going to sites dealing with Star Wars. You just have to be carefull on what you choose to look at. Here I don't think it is anybodys intention to ruin the movie for anyone. But how can we talk about the up and coming movie without maybe giving something away. Also I like I said before. We really don't know anything that will happen in the movie until GL is through hacking it to death first. What we know now or talk about maybe cut before it comes out. So lets becarefull of one anothers feelings and be more mindfull on what you choose to say or read.

Lman316
02-10-2002, 07:54 AM
I really didn't want to make it so there would be two different places to post. And I know that most posts in the AOTC section would have spoilers, but I was only trying to avoid BIG spoilers.
All the examples that were given to me: C-3P0 and his coverings, Plo Koon with a blue lightsaber, R2-D2 with the alarm and so on I know about, but they weren't really that big - to me, anyway.
I guess if it's going to come down to having two places to post ( and possibly making things complicated, or just messy), then I'll just remain out of the AOTC section. Or maybe I'll just read the stuff, and if I feel I'm starting to read a spoiler, I'll stop and move onto the next post.

stillakid
02-10-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Obi-Don
. But how can we talk about the up and coming movie without maybe giving something away.

Geesh, I manage just fine. It's called self restraint. I expect to see "spoilers" in a thread marked "spoilers." I don't expect spoilers in a thread marked "toys." How difficult is that to understand?

Rollo Tomassi
02-10-2002, 02:06 PM
Since I inadvertantly started this, and since its outcome has already been decided by the mods, I don;t know what else I can offer the argument.

I have to agree with Stillakid and the others even though the mods don't. I am NOT spoiler free. I know as much about the film as anybody in here. Probably more so.

But I can still recognize the difference between seeing a picture and a name of a figure and finding out the who's, what's, when's and where's of the film based on a visual image of that character in toy form.


***SPOILERS AHEAD*** (see was that so hard?)

EXAMPLE: Kit Fristo. I see he's a Jedi with a lightsaber. I don't see him getting shot in the head by a Battle Droid.

Example: ZAM WESSEL. I see a chick in a purple armor type thing. I don't see her getting her arm chopped off by Obi Wan and then getting killed by Jango Fett with kyber dart.

Example: JANGO FETT with removable head. I see Jango gets killed, but I don't see when. I don't see where. I don't see by who.

Example: R2-D2 with little robot spiders. I see R2's in the film. But I don't see Padme gets attacked in her bedroom in the night and then Obi Wan and Anakin rush in and give chase through Coruscant.

As Jedi Tricks pointed out, it hasn't been a issue up until now. Well, all we had before was names and conjecture. I see Taun We and Shaak-ti on a list, I can speculate without giving deliberate plot points away. I can see pictures of Kit Fisto and Zam Wesell without knowing how they affect the outcoem of the film.

It's the difference between a TOY and CHARACTER IN A FILM.

Of course, now the mods have given you license to spoil away and all this is a moot point. But I suggest you take a look at the points stillakid and the others were trying to make. use a little self restraint and think about what EXACTLY you are discussing: the toys of the movies.

Who wants the soapbox?:D

stillakid
02-10-2002, 07:58 PM
If there's one thing that I've learned from these boards it's that you can't change someone's mind. People believe what they want to believe and they go out looking for evidence that supports their own point of view, then disregard the rest.

derek
02-10-2002, 08:03 PM
stillakid,

i mean no disrespect, but who's mind have you tried to change? all i've seen you do is ridicule some here because they have pieced together the basic storyline of the upcoming film and label them mystics.

Dryanta
02-10-2002, 08:22 PM
Sadly this will be my last post.I agree with alot of things said in this thread and some I find idiotic.On one hand I understand why some would want to stay spoiler free about storyline.But they should consider not coming to certain forums and be happy.On the other I find alot of people running off at the mouth about any and all info they can find.Overly impressed with their own unimportance.I personally am a little tired of the whole thing.the negativity and *****ing is annoying to me.If you don't like the toys don't buy them and shut up.If you don't want spoilers don't come to threads about AOTC.And if you think you have info about the movie keep it to yourself and we'll all be better off for it.For all of you who are helpful.polite and considerate,thank you.For those who are not.Try harder to be.from here on out I will get all my info from sirsteves main page and that will be fine for me.
thanks for some enjoyment and some frustration,:)

Tycho
02-10-2002, 09:38 PM
No Spoilers in my post, but I support them being allowed in this thread.

Hmmm. That's why we get some of the resculpts. Figures need to be released in time for the movie promotion, but take Darth Maul who splits in half.

May 3 figure couldn't split in half for spoiler reasons.

Tatooine -self explanatory.

Soft-Goods - so he could use vehicles kids imagined him to - like say Maul stole the Flash Speeder in your own adventure - OR they are still going to make the Sith Infiltrator and Maul needs to sit down in it and the price point would be too high with a Pack-in? (in any case, soft goods which also split in half would not have been appreciated by collectors who prefer sculpted, and it might have pushed the cost Hasbro wanted to spend on the figure, versus what they could get from us with a resculpt and adding a Maul to lead off the "new" POTJ line.)

So Darth Maul # 4 (carded, reg asst.) is the splitting in half one - which they hoped to release before too many kids hurt themselves with Daddy's hacksaw trying to "fix" their May 3 figure to be movie accurate for his final scene.

So, there are at least 3 MAIN CHARACTERS that need resculpts due to needing 'removeable spoiler features' and who knows how many more?

To give Lucas and Hasbro some credit, they try not to release figures like Anakin's Padawan figure (Ep. 1) too early to give away what happens to Anakin (he becomes a Jedi at the end of the movie - what???)

But I agree with Dryanta, all this negativity turns me off from wanting to post and talk with other Star Wars fans - which goes against the whole purpose of these forums.

I think JarJar Binks said it best - people are complaining about the poses or features of the figures already, and they don't know the spoilers so they find the extreme pieces appalling, when really they are quite cool for dioramas. IF extreme articulation is too far above expected costs Hasbro wants to put into these...

(in which case, normally posed resculpts are a good idea for later)

But the main gist of this discussion harkens back to what Dyanta said - I came in here really excited about all the new stuff - overwhelmed actually. But loving it! So 2 things happen to someone like me who reads spoilers:

1) I want to discuss the figures in light of the spoilers, not only to explain why I praise them, but to say "these guys who are so down about these might finally be as impressed as I am when they finally know what all this is about. It's my opinion that I know the plot of the movie, but I enjoy talking with other people who think they've figured it out too. It's fun for us to get it ahead of time - because we like thinking, figuring things out, using information to analyze and synthesize a plot out of the puzzle. Sometimes figures' features confirm what we 'think' we know - and that's exciting too, as a lot of the ideas for E2 are just so cool! But the E2 FILM spoiler forum is not about the figures. Sure we can bring them up, but just because a figure has blaster deflection features doesn't entitle us to start a pro-and-con discussion about removeable blaster fire / deflection on scene specific figures - while that might involve describing how it all will look in a finished diorama of that particular spoiler scene.



and

2) I need a place to go to say "Wow! It's so cool Dagobah Vader comes with a removeable head that shows Luke's face!" I really wanted to do that scene (loaded with spoilers if you'd never seen ESB).

So here we have it - a reason why the Episode 2 TOYS need a section that allows spoilers - a place for enthusiasts who read spoilers to congregate in a positive environment because they come here to enjoy toy collecting for Star Wars - not be dragged down with it.

Stillakid, I could quote you about "Setting Traps" for people to see if they cough up spoilers or do something else that you would be "amused to respond to."

But those of us like JarJar Binks, Lt. Basker, and myself want an environment that's FRIENDLY and CAN be full of enthusiasm for this stuff that is as open to information, speculation, or "potential information" as possible that lets us appreciate (or not) these figures from all possible perspectives.

JediTricks made a good decision to allow ALL opinions and viewpoints from the perspectives of those with both large and small amounts of information about the movie to discuss the toys within the context of it here.

A Hasbro AOTC Toys section with no spoilers allowed (like the movie section one) would probably work out best - moreso than just using the POTJ section for it. However, I'm not sure if adding a forum would be a lot of trouble for administrators and programmers, as I'm not involved in all that technical stuff.

Meanwhile, I feel strongly for the case for freedom of speech here. If you are going to talk about the figures from a not-yet-released movie, post it in the section header (like JediTricks just did) that we're pouring it out from the heart here, and we're not trying to ruin anyone's fun, TRAP someone to show how clever WE are, but we just want the freedom to talk about everything that might be involved here, and we'll respect a forum for those that want no spoilers as well. But we need one where they CAN be discussed.

This is like the Israelis and Palestinians arguing over who controls Jerusalem. The only difference is, that here on the internet, we can create "two Jerusalems."

I support an AOTC Toys with Spoilers section, and one for those who want no spoilers. Perhaps JediTricks' method of using the POTJ section for no-spoiler AOTC posts will be good to measure how many are posting there and whether it merits having its own forum.

Sooner than later, I'm sure we'll see.

stillakid
02-10-2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by derek
stillakid,

i mean no disrespect, but who's mind have you tried to change? all i've seen you do is ridicule some here because they have pieced together the basic storyline of the upcoming film and label them mystics.


Sigh. Yet another example of a comment taken out of context. And I haven't ridiculed anyone. What I have done is question the accuracy of spoilers. Proof is an official screenplay or a 75mm print of the film itself, not third hand rumors. I've never once said that your spoilers were wrong (check back and see!).

mabudonicus
02-11-2002, 01:21 PM
It's weird that there could be so many vitriolic posts of such a personal nature in forums that exist, primarily, due to the fact that so many people like ourselves simply love the universe which was created when ANH was released. I was always under the impression that most of the "back and forth" on these boards was good natured, but after seeing some of the posts on this thread I'm not so sure. Tycho, I'm glad you stressed the point that most of us(ideally all, but...) just want a place to DISCUSS our favourite TOY and MOVIE universe. I don't post to show off, or to make other people feel wrong or dumb. If someone doesn't agree with something I have posted, I don't sit around wondering what kind of idiot they are.... I mean, if all I believed was all that mattered, why would I visit discussion forums in the first place. This post is a bit off topic, but after reading the sign-off above, I just had to comment. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering- can't we all just remember that and not go ripping into someone over their opinions on an action figure or film or whatever? I don't personally know ANYONE on these boards, but I consider all members friends almost by default, and I hope the feeling is mutual. Hateful posts kind of get me down, but I guess if that's the way the author really feels, who am I to say they can't?

stillakid
02-11-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by mabudon
It's weird that there could be so many vitriolic posts of such a personal nature in forums that exist, primarily, due to the fact that so many people like ourselves simply love the universe which was created when ANH was released. I was always under the impression that most of the "back and forth" on these boards was good natured, but after seeing some of the posts on this thread I'm not so sure. Tycho, I'm glad you stressed the point that most of us(ideally all, but...) just want a place to DISCUSS our favourite TOY and MOVIE universe. I don't post to show off, or to make other people feel wrong or dumb. If someone doesn't agree with something I have posted, I don't sit around wondering what kind of idiot they are.... I mean, if all I believed was all that mattered, why would I visit discussion forums in the first place. This post is a bit off topic, but after reading the sign-off above, I just had to comment. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering- can't we all just remember that and not go ripping into someone over their opinions on an action figure or film or whatever? I don't personally know ANYONE on these boards, but I consider all members friends almost by default, and I hope the feeling is mutual. Hateful posts kind of get me down, but I guess if that's the way the author really feels, who am I to say they can't?

I'm with you! I've never (intentionally anyway) thrown personal barbs at anyone. I've always attempted to make well thought out, articulate, and logical arguments or comments regarding specific "issues," not regarding the people who say them. I've gotten several of those "personal instant message" things available on these boards from users that I don't know actually thanking me for being a calm and reasonable voice. I know that it's difficult for many people to see the difference between a comment about a topic and a personal attack, but there's nothing anyone can do about that kind of outlook on life. All you can do is stand up for what you believe in and not be malicious while doing it. No matter how anyone else views your comments, at least you'll know that you were fair.

As far as the topic of the thread goes, it's unfortunate but I've taken to not looking at any thread that has the letters AOTC in it because apparently even knowing the name of the movie is permission enough to give away the farm. The world isn't always a fair place, but it's the only one we have to live in. Just have to learn to adjust. :)

Beast
02-11-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
I'm with you! I've never (intentionally anyway) thrown personal barbs at anyone. I've always attempted to make well thought out, articulate, and logical arguments or comments regarding specific "issues," not regarding the people who say them
:rolleyes: I wouldn't say never, your comments a page or two back sounds an awful lot like a personal barb at me. When all I'm trying to do was discuss the fact that there would be spoilers in this section of the forums. And it does seems pretty intentional to me. I guess you just "forgot" about this little comment not about specific issues, but about a person who had one. :(

Originally posted by stillakid
JJB has no intention of following convention nor following rules of any kind. As he said, the best route to take is one around him. Eventually he's liable to anger enough people with his non-conformist attitudes. In the meantime, this is a no win argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge common sense. Ignore him.:)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

187-Maul
02-11-2002, 02:55 PM
well looks like tycho is right with his arguments (dagobah vader example) and Ima probably just look at the topis of the threads and decide if it could have any spoilers in it
I'm really looking forward to see the movie so that I can talk about it too:)

stillakid
02-11-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

:rolleyes: I wouldn't say never, your comments a page or two back sounds an awful lot like a personal barb at me. When all I'm trying to do was discuss the fact that there would be spoilers in this section of the forums. And it does seems pretty intentional to me. I guess you just "forgot" about this little comment not about specific issues, but about a person who had one. :(


MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

That wasn't a personal barb...it was a statement of fact about your personal attitude towards the recognized format of the forum. If you took it as a personal attack, I apologize, but I don't consider the stating of a person's apparent intentions as anything more than telling it like it is. Then I agreed with your own suggestions that you be ignored. Looking back at the "common sense" comment, I did cross the line and I'm sorry. Even though the issue at hand seems very clear to me, I become bewildered at how well some people can rationalize their own points of view in such a way that obscures the obvious. I'll try to be much more careful in the future.

Dryanta
02-11-2002, 06:12 PM
Well so much for that.I just spent a half jour sitting at the kitchen table with my 4 daughters.12,10,4 and 2.I found myself comparing their differences to some of the differences in print I've seen on these forums.These diferences are not only due to the age gap by also outlook.Here I'm sure age is at times a factor but by no means a major one.When I signed off the other day I made a serious mistake.Not only by saying it was my last but in some of the things I said.There are major differences in my four children just as sure as there are among 1300 users.As a user I personally will try and understand these and respect them as best I can.No condecension or insults.and also no posing and piety.If we can find better ways to respect others want and opions concerning these forums it will a whole lot better for all.Self restraint on story line spoilers and an expectation to see spoilers will go along way in dealing with this particular issue.I do enjoy the forums because it gives me access to other fans of Star wars toys.It is that access that I am now not willing to give up.I will not agree with everyone here and some of you will annoy the hell out me I'm sure.But never the less I'll be here from time to time and I'll even rerspond once in awhile.So the next time your see a large biker with scars on the left side of his face in the toy isle say haey It'll probably be me