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bigbarada
08-19-2007, 11:08 PM
From thejawa.com's Hasbro Q&A:


1) Nick@TheJawa - The modern Vintage line has covered almost all of our favorite heroes & villains from the OT, almost to the point of exhaustion. Army builders have found a niche in this line as well. But with the choices beginning to dwindle from Kenner's original character lineup, how is Hasbro prepared to meet the challenge of keeping a very popular line like modern Vintage going? What did the responses to polls on this subject reveal at Celebration 4?

We don't have any concrete answers yet on the future of Vintage. The poll answers didn't reveal one strong direction or the other - nearly half of fans felt that Vintage should be opened up to the entire Saga (probably due to the main characters having already been done, as you suggest, and wanting to see only popular characters in vintage), and the other half indicated that they want us to stay true to the Kenner roots and cover only OTC figures. With the issue of the main OTC figures having been done, it does present a challenge going forward on how to make future waves of vintage compelling, but it's a challenge we'll be looking at. There is no set date for when we'll see the next wave - right now, Evolutions is our premium-format focus for next year.

It almost sounds like they are saying we're not getting a vintage wave in 2008 because we're getting more Evolutions figures.:mad:

Gothiczartan
08-19-2007, 11:18 PM
From thejawa.com's Hasbro Q&A:



It almost sounds like they are saying we're not getting a vintage wave in 2008 because we're getting more Evolutions figures.:mad:

they can stay the basic figure line and evolution packs as long as they make figures based on movie and movie accurate.

I hope they make a allnew sculpt nien numb figure!

Kidhuman
08-19-2007, 11:20 PM
Its a give and take thing here. I would love the Vintage figs, but the Evolutions are finally giving us an SA Qui-Gon, as well as some EU figures that I have wanted. Fans have been asking for more Evolution sets and we are getting them, but at the Vintage cost. I would rather pay 20 bucks for the Evo sets instead of 10 bucks a pop for a background character at most right now in that line since the main characters have all been done.

AmanaMatt
08-19-2007, 11:45 PM
The one concern I have with Evolutions is what is coming in the Fett set. I very much want Boba and Jango, and have no real clue who Mandalore is (and don't care)....but I have to buy figs in a set I don't want to get those that I do.

No Vintage in 2008 will be a very sad thing for me. I have loved this line as much as anything in the 12 years since Hasbro has done the modern line.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-20-2007, 12:06 AM
The one concern I have with Evolutions is what is coming in the Fett set. I very much want Boba and Jango, and have no real clue who Mandalore is (and don't care)....but I have to buy figs in a set I don't want to get those that I do.Two out of three ain't bad. Plus the third figure is new and not a repack, so it's not like buying a battle pack with four repacks to get one new figure. If they are $20 Evolution sets, then that would be about the same price per figure as a basic figure. Throw out the figure you don't want and then the average price is the same as a Vintage style figure. The quality on the Evolution figures have been pretty good, so I would say it would be worth it to get the Boba and Jango.

mark2d2
08-20-2007, 02:28 AM
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

This is horrible news! I am seriously IRKED!!! All the evolutions will bring us is more pointless EU SITH dolts and the like. I couldn't be less interested in the current Evolutions line up. . . Seriously. Yawn.

Oh, well. Even less to buy. . . I guess. This year, other than the VINTAGE wave which I snapped up in its entirety, I have only bought the following.

2 Jawas with LIN-V8K
1 Luke Skywalker (for the vaporator only!)
1 Rebel Honor Guard
2 CZ-4s (on order)
1 of each of this years Cantina Aliens (on order)
1 R2-B1
1 4-LOM
1 Fireside Padme

Without the Vintage Line, my interest will considerable dim, I must say.

AmanaMatt
08-20-2007, 12:11 PM
Two out of three ain't bad. Plus the third figure is new and not a repack, so it's not like buying a battle pack with four repacks to get one new figure. If they are $20 Evolution sets, then that would be about the same price per figure as a basic figure. Throw out the figure you don't want and then the average price is the same as a Vintage style figure. The quality on the Evolution figures have been pretty good, so I would say it would be worth it to get the Boba and Jango.

I agree with this example.....two out of three is good, and the two figs alone will be worth the $20ish price tag, but then that is VTAC prices for me and a lot of people who want Vintage.....people complained that the vintage line was too much, but this line - if you buy a set for two figs, will be about the same.

Now, I can handle two figs out of three....but what I am concern about is this: What if they released evolutions with: Boba Fett, Madalore, and some other EU fig that I am not into? Then, we are talking frustration....but still, Hasbro has been good with the line so far.

One set I am passing on: The Qui gon set. As much as I want him, I do not want to pay for the other two....

Blue2th
08-20-2007, 12:24 PM
I'm dissapointed we still haven't gotten a difinitive Vintage Luke Jedi. Isn't there supposed to be a Death Squad Commander also?
I like the Evolutions sets because of the cool Prequel figures, but I'm sure we all could come up with five figures that could be done for one more last wave of the OTC Vintage style figures.

TheRealDubya
08-20-2007, 12:35 PM
If there is no Vintage in 2008, I'll be bummed out but I like the Evolutions sets (I missed the original releases so I look forward to picking those old ones and the new ones up.) It's an okay trade off for me. So long as they come back to the Vintage for 2009, I'll be okay. If this is the end of the line, then so be it -- it's been a great run and I'll treasure the ones they made. The VOTC was what brought me back to the line after a 6 year hiatus.

wolfedge
08-20-2007, 01:46 PM
I too share my disappointment with you all in this matter. We still have a couple of good waves left. I'd like to see jedi luke and a gam guard before it's all said and done. If hasbro kills the line, they should integrate the vintage concept(SA, paint apps. proper soft goods) more in depth with the basic line and we'd have something nice on our hands to work with. I just feel that paying 7-8 bucks for basic and not really being satisfied with the fig itself (kitbash,cartoon paint apps.some bad scuplting, articulation when needed) is a letdown for the collector.
And just for the record the only basic fig i bought this year was vader.
I was in need of another and this one was well crafted. There might be a few more buys in the future but only time will tell.

TheRealDubya
08-20-2007, 02:17 PM
Let's say Hasbro put it to vote and said they would do one last Vintage wave, up to 8 figures, with a possible mail-away figure. What would you guys want to see? I think the Jedi Luke is a almost unanimous. I would go like this:

1. Luke Jedi
2. Walrusman
3. Leia Hoth
4. Lando General
5. Luke Stormtrooper
6. Han Solo Bespin
7. Gamorrean Guard

And then maybe..the Emporer or a TIE Fighter pilot? The tough thing is picking a reasonable Imperial "army builder" that hasn't been done well or hasn't been carded in some time. The Saga 2006 AT-AT Driver was just about perfect, but I'd buy another one on the Vintage card. The vinatge TIE pilot card art leaves something to be desired. And then 4-LOM (aka Zuckuss) as the mail-away? Or Ackbar or Anakin? One of the true vintage mail aways would be a cool, final tribute. I can definitely see why they are having a hard time picking figures that would both sell and be worth their time. They have pretty much exhausted the core characters. Personally I would pay for every last figure carded Vintage style, but that's just crazy old me.

bigbarada
08-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Let's say Hasbro put it to vote and said they would do one last Vintage wave, up to 8 figures, with a possible mail-away figure. What would you guys want to see? I think the Jedi Luke is a almost unanimous. I would go like this:

1. Luke Jedi
2. Walrusman
3. Leia Hoth
4. Lando General
5. Luke Stormtrooper
6. Han Solo Bespin
7. Gamorrean Guard

And then maybe..the Emporer or a TIE Fighter pilot? The tough thing is picking a reasonable Imperial "army builder" that hasn't been done well or hasn't been carded in some time. The Saga 2006 AT-AT Driver was just about perfect, but I'd buy another one on the Vintage card. The vinatge TIE pilot card art leaves something to be desired. And then 4-LOM (aka Zuckuss) as the mail-away? Or Ackbar or Anakin? One of the true vintage mail aways would be a cool, final tribute. I can definitely see why they are having a hard time picking figures that would both sell and be worth their time. They have pretty much exhausted the core characters. Personally I would pay for every last figure carded Vintage style, but that's just crazy old me.

I would definitely agree with all of those. And I find it wierd that people complain about too many resculpts of main characters in the standard line and not enough background characters; but for some reason the vintage style line should ONLY be main characters?:confused:

The new Evolutions sets for 2008 are a yawnfest for me. The only one I'd be remotely interested in would be the SA Jango, but I don't want to have to pay $20 just for that one figure.

Sinscia Fat'o
08-20-2007, 04:43 PM
Well i'm stoked for the Evolutions sets finally a Mandalore!!! I've been waiting all these years to finally get the one true bad *** mandalorien, but at the cost of vintage...I say fair trade off. I can't be more excited about the NJO Luke Skywalker, and Qui Gon Set, thats going to be a great piece. Though if in 2009 they do bring back Vintage, i gotta say i would like to see...

1.) Luke Skywalker ROTJ
2.) Lando ROTJ
3.) The Emperor
4.) Emperor's Royal Guard
5.) Walrus Man
6.) Lobot

Mail Away: Anakin Skywalker

JediTricks
08-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Personally, I don't mind Vintage taking a break, the line is too restricted and too hit-or-miss for its pricetag. There are far too few top-tier figures and far too many missteps making a lot of "almost" instead of "there" figures.

Plus, I dislike the way they've been treating the accessories for this line: few, and recycled. Accessories are part of what drives my Star Wars collecting, but for Vintage there's not a single "wow!" accessory in the lot.

And the fans are so fickle about it, they announced last time that Bossk and IG-88 would be in this wave and almost everybody complained, yet those 2 turned out to be the best in the wave.

So, it matters not to me if we never see another Vintage figure at all - I couldn't care less about the format, just give me the quality.

El Chuxter
08-20-2007, 05:11 PM
So, you're all complaining that the figures won't be $10 next year? :confused:

bigbarada
08-20-2007, 05:39 PM
So, you're all complaining that the figures won't be $10 next year? :confused:

It's not about money for me, it's about getting figures that are absolutely the highest quality available. I paid $16 apiece for VTAC Bossk and IG-88 and I was happy to do it, those figures were worth every penny.

Nobody is complaining that Sideshow is charging $50-60 for each of their 12" figures, because the difference in the quality of their figures, compared to Hasbro's 12" line, is pretty clear. Although I know some people would rather settle for "good enough" at $20 rather than "amazing" at $60.

Why shouldn't the same apply to the 3.75" line? For the most part, (let me underline that before someone throws Endor Leia in my face) the vintage-style figures have been amazing in quality compared to the standard line and they have raised the overall quality of the entire line. While Bossk and IG-88 were absolutely stellar in quality, within the next couple of years, they will be average. They have raised the bar and soon every figure will be at that level.

I would rather have a "premium format" line of figures that pushes the overall level of quality continually forward in leaps and bounds, rather than getting miniscule improvements over the course of years. Or the "two steps forward, three steps back" kind of progress that Hasbro has shown us in the past (in other words, intentionally omitting features in order to justify a resculpt later on)

For that alone I believe the vintage line is worth every penny of that $10-12 pricetag.

Kidhuman
08-20-2007, 05:55 PM
I thought the Vintage Endor Leia was a great figure. Far better than Han and Luke. I put it up there with Bossk in 3rd place this year.

DarkArtist
08-20-2007, 06:14 PM
I say it's way too early to worry about 2008 since so far most of us have only seen up to Wave 3 in the TAC line and there is only 4 months left till 2008 and there's still wave 4-8 that was to be released in 2007.

as far as the Vintage line, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some pics of them at Toy Fair.

Sinscia Fat'o
08-20-2007, 06:30 PM
It's not about money for me, it's about getting figures that are absolutely the highest quality available. I paid $16 apiece for VTAC Bossk and IG-88 and I was happy to do it, those figures were worth every penny.

Nobody is complaining that Sideshow is charging $50-60 for each of their 12" figures, because the difference in the quality of their figures, compared to Hasbro's 12" line, is pretty clear. Although I know some people would rather settle for "good enough" at $20 rather than "amazing" at $60.

Why shouldn't the same apply to the 3.75" line? For the most part, (let me underline that before someone throws Endor Leia in my face) the vintage-style figures have been amazing in quality compared to the standard line and they have raised the overall quality of the entire line. While Bossk and IG-88 were absolutely stellar in quality, within the next couple of years, they will be average. They have raised the bar and soon every figure will be at that level.

I would rather have a "premium format" line of figures that pushes the overall level of quality continually forward in leaps and bounds, rather than getting miniscule improvements over the course of years. Or the "two steps forward, three steps back" kind of progress that Hasbro has shown us in the past (in other words, intentionally omitting features in order to justify a resculpt later on)

For that alone I believe the vintage line is worth every penny of that $10-12 pricetag.

I do have to agree with you on majority of what you said, i love the vintage line, i consider it to be the must haves of my collection, and will be more than happy to pay 10-15 bucks for a figure that has great articulation, and excellent quality. I think the comparassion of Vintage to sideshow is right on the money, since side show makes beatiful pieces of art as 3-d toys, while the vintage may not be considered art, they are the peak of excellence for the standard format of figures.

Someone also stated that the accessories given to you with the vintage line lacks, and to a certain agree i do have to agree as well, but only for a few figures. Han Solo (ANH) scaled dowm correct blaster, holster what else does Han need? Chewie had his Bowcaster with a strap, granted the strap should have been cloth or soft rubber, but it was still the best bowcaster we've gotten so far. The only case i can make that the extras sucked with had to be Luke (ANH), Ben Kenobi, and Han (Hoth), those failed to deliever on more than one level though.

plasticfetish
08-20-2007, 06:48 PM
I'd say we've had quite a few failed deliveries from this line.

It's not about money for me, it's about getting figures that are absolutely the highest quality available. I paid $16 apiece for VTAC Bossk and IG-88 and I was happy to do it, those figures were worth every penny.Next time you want to pay $6 over retail for figures that peg-warmed in my area, let me know. I'll mail 'em to you with the deed to this bridge in Brooklyn that I own. ;)


Nobody is complaining that Sideshow is charging $50-60 for each of their 12" figuresErrr... uh, well... that's not exactly true.


Why shouldn't the same apply to the 3.75" line?Because, "for the most part," the vintage figures haven't been that much better than the rest of the line. The idea behind the vintage line was initially that we would be getting these "special" vintage inspired figures, with vintage style packaging, but with modern detail and articulation. It wasn't supposed to be a "premium" figure line, which if you really think about it, isn't all that much more premium than a great number of the better basic figures.

You've been paying twice as much for a marketing concept, and that's about it.

I'm not sorry to see the vintage line go (if it is going.) I passed on most of the latest vintage figures, aside from the Snowtrooper. Even then, I only picked up one of those, because I'm sure we'll no doubt see it released again as a basic figure. Yet another reoccurring slap-in-the-face with the vintage line.

Blue2th
08-20-2007, 07:06 PM
I say when they do bring the VTOC back in '08, make just two core characters (Luke Jedi is THE most important) and the rest background guys. I'm with BB on the IG-88 and Bossk. To me those were the best ones. We don't need onother Han other than in Stormtrooper disguise or AT-ST gear cause everything else he wore is boring or has been done.
I would love to see Admiral Ackbar, Nien Numb, Deathsquad Commander, or a Tie Pilot. A decent AT-ST Driver would also be cool. Even Jawas.
There's alot to choose from other than core characters. But if they have to be done which I hope not (other than Jedi Luke) there are still plenty of boring versions left.

TheRealDubya
08-20-2007, 07:13 PM
I thought the Vintage Endor Leia was a great figure. Far better than Han and Luke.

Same here. I never quite understood all the hating this figure took. I thought it was really well done. I think people made up their minds after they had seen some early production photos and never gave it a second chance. To me, the four biggest misteps of the Vintage line are as follows:

1.) Greedo's "My Mom Made This For My Toy" vest
2.) Han Solo Hoth Outfit's lack of inclusion of the hood up head (which we'll no doubt get one day.) Granted, I still love the figure.
15918
3.) Craptastic-3PO
4.) Vintage Yoda's "Kuato" head sculpt.
15916

bigbarada
08-20-2007, 08:02 PM
Next time you want to pay $6 over retail for figures that peg-warmed in my area, let me know. I'll mail 'em to you with the deed to this bridge in Brooklyn that I own. ;)

Are they still pegwarming? I still need another Boskk.


Errr... uh, well... that's not exactly true.

If there are, then I haven't heard any of it. They're certainly not complaining in every single thread about Sideshow's 12" line that the figures are too expensive. And they're definitely not starting threads calling for a boycott of Sideshow because their figures "cost too much."

So, show me where the complaining is anywhere near what the vintage line has to endure and I'll retract my statement.


Because, "for the most part," the vintage figures haven't been that much better than the rest of the line. The idea behind the vintage line was initially that we would be getting these "special" vintage inspired figures, with vintage style packaging, but with modern detail and articulation. It wasn't supposed to be a "premium" figure line, which if you really think about it, isn't all that much more premium than a great number of the better basic figures.

I agree, the retro-packaging is one of the primary draws of this line and another reason that I love it so much. Plus, 2007 basic figures are now approaching vintage quality because of the 2004 vintage line. Those figures, as flawed as many of them might have been, raised the bar for every figure and we are reaping the benefits of that now.


You've been paying twice as much for a marketing concept, and that's about it.

But it's a marketing concept that I am willing to continue to pay twice as much for, what's your point?


I'm not sorry to see the vintage line go (if it is going.) I passed on most of the latest vintage figures, aside from the Snowtrooper. Even then, I only picked up one of those, because I'm sure we'll no doubt see it released again as a basic figure. Yet another reoccurring slap-in-the-face with the vintage line.

I wonder why this is even a complaint. If the price bothers you that much, then just wait a couple of years for Hasbro to rerelease the figure as part of the basic line. All that requires is patience on your part.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-20-2007, 08:59 PM
I don't have a problem with the $10 price of Vintage style figures. I've yet to buy anything from Sideshow, but I've been tempted to. Price is one reason I haven't, but then I was never a big collector of 12 inch figures. I really like the look of the ANH Leia, so maybe I'll get that one.

For future Vintage figures, I would probably go with the following:

ROTJ Jedi Luke
ESB Bespin Han
ESB Hoth Leia
ROTJ Admiral Ackbar
ANH Death Squad Commander
ROTJ Emperor

AmanaMatt
08-20-2007, 09:56 PM
I thought the Vintage Endor Leia was a great figure. Far better than Han and Luke. I put it up there with Bossk in 3rd place this year.

Drugs are bad! :thumbsup:



There are far too few top-tier figures and far too many missteps making a lot of "almost" instead of "there" figures.

I agree, to a degree. This years duds were Leia (sorry Kidhuman!!!), and Luke to a degree. I do feel there were three 'there' figs in this wave: Ig-88, Bossk, and the Snowtrooper...

wolfedge
08-21-2007, 12:20 PM
Vintage harkens back to my childhood. I'm willing to pay the cost for the best presentation of a fig (thus far and no not all them have been good).

My list in film order:

walrusman
jawa (soft goods,blaster,holster)
luke hoth
leia hoth or bespin
han bespin
dengar
luke jedi
gam guard
emperor (proper soft goods)
wickett
weequay

possible POTF: lando general,luke storm,han carbonite,barada (gotta love those skiff guards). Hasbro don't let us down!

TheRealDubya
08-21-2007, 12:57 PM
Wolfedge, I totally agree on the Jawa and Wicket. Those would be my top two picks. I was just hesitant to put them because of their small size. However, since Hasbro did do Yoda, maybe those two are not out of the question. I would throw in Snaggletooth and an Ugnaught as well, for that matter. I love the look of ALL those small dudes' cards:

15927
15929
15928
15926

And then, of course, if they did a Boba Fett on a Droids card, that would be the best: :thumbsup:

15930

plasticfetish
08-21-2007, 04:45 PM
Are they still peg warming? I still need another Boskk.I stopped seeing them after they clearanced down to around $3 at Target. I still see them at Wal-Mart and TRU for around $10.


They're certainly not complaining in every single thread about Sideshow's 12" line that the figures are too expensive. And they're definitely not starting threads calling for a boycott of Sideshow because their figures "cost too much." So, show me where the complaining is anywhere near what the vintage line has to endure and I'll retract my statement.You said "nobody"... and I disagreed. Sure, "nobody" is marching to Sideshow's offices with burning torches and pitchforks, but just the same, price is always a consideration when reviewing their figures. (If you're willing to be realistic.)


But it's a marketing concept that I am willing to continue to pay twice as much for, what's your point?I think my point -- with all due respect -- was that you're a sucker for not realizing that you're only paying twice as much for a marketing gimmick, and that...


I wonder why this is even a complaint. If the price bothers you that much, then just wait a couple of years for Hasbro to rerelease the figure as part of the basic line. All that requires is patience on your part.

...you'll eventually get the same "quality figure" at a lower price. I have nothing but patience, and I've passed on plenty of over priced toys, later to find them marked down to half and a third of what they first retailed for.

(Heck, I'm even willing to wait years later to find them once the scalpers and other speculators are looking to dump their stock for next to nothing.)

Don't get me wrong... I think the concept is, or at least was a good one, but at this point the specialness of the "vintage" line has run its course. What they're putting out in the basic line is just as good (I'll use the McQuarrie Vader as a specific example) if not better in many cases.

So my point was and is, simply... I'm not sorry to see the line go, because for the most part I don’t think it did anything to “raise the bar” for other figures. I think it encouraged retailers to raise prices in order to take advantage of the “collectors” market. If anything, our demand for better quality figures is what encouraged them to boost their standards... and always will.

TheRealDubya
08-21-2007, 05:07 PM
PF, I agree for the most part -- I don't see a lot of bar raising going on from the Vintage anymore. They're about on par with the mainline releases at this point. All I ever cared about was the card art. The figures are just gravy for me.

The more I read Hasbro's response to last week's Vintage question, the more I come to believe that this line is on serious hiatus:

"TheJawa.com: The modern Vintage line has covered almost all of our favorite heroes & villains from the OT, almost to the point of exhaustion. Army builders have found a niche in this line as well. But with the choices beginning to dwindle from Kenner's original character lineup, how is Hasbro prepared to meet the challenge of keeping a very popular line like modern Vintage going? What did the responses to polls on this subject reveal at Celebration 4?
Hasbro: We don't have any concrete answers yet on the future of Vintage. The poll answers didn't reveal one strong direction or the other - nearly half of fans felt that Vintage should be opened up to the entire Saga (probably due to the main characters having already been done, as you suggest, and wanting to see only popular characters in vintage), and the other half indicated that they want us to stay true to the Kenner roots and cover only OTC figures. With the issue of the main OTC figures having been done, it does present a challenge going forward on how to make future waves of vintage compelling, but it's a challenge we'll be looking at. There is no set date for when we'll see the next wave - right now, Evolutions is our premium-format focus for next year."

So without a resounding direction from the fans, the line is stalled. Main characters are the engine of their financial model. Luke Jedi is the only really glaring main dude yet to be addressed in a Vintage style. The rest are kind of reaching and might have limited consumer appeal (aka We Vintage Nerds) when the same essential figure can be had at 2/3 the cost.

But I don't think they will abandon it altogether. I think they will retool their approach and model, perhaps cut the cost, and come up with some way to keep those of us who are willing to keep paying...keep paying. Perhaps the future of the line could mark their foray into Fan Club Exclusives territory. They could repack Hammerhead, R5-D4, and so on, sell them online for $10 and I'm sure plenty of us would scoop them up. Then it allows those who want them for less to get the previous releases loose or whatever on ebay. Who knows? I'll have my pennies stowed up for when and if that day arrives. In the meantime, I'll continue to support the mainline.

bigbarada
08-21-2007, 05:20 PM
I think my point -- with all due respect -- was that you're a sucker for not realizing that you're only paying twice as much for a marketing gimmick,

No, I pretty much realized back in 2004, when the first vintage figures started to hit shelves, that I was paying more for a pretty package. I have absolutely no problem with that and obviously I'm not the only one when you look at how popular the line has been.

If you are only concerned with the figures, then you are really missing the point of the vintage line. The retro packaging is a big part of the appeal, especially to those of us who remember walking into our local grocery or department stores and seeing row after row of Star Wars figures when we were kids.

So, I wouldn't consider myself a "sucker" for being willing to pay extra for a little bit of nostalgia; but if it makes you feel better to insult me and my collecting habits, then knock yourself out.

However, you shouldn't be so judgemental of people just because their collecting goals differ from yours. You'll find other collectors aren't as forgiving as I am.:p:D;)

plasticfetish
08-21-2007, 05:53 PM
However, you shouldn't be so judgmental of people just because their collecting goals differ from yours.Hey... sorry to offend, but you're the one that asked me to clarify "my point."

I was being tactful the first time. ;)

...and I don't think I'm being judgmental. Not without reason anyway. Of course you're entitled to collect anything in any manner that you want... I doubt our habits are all that different.

In this case, I'm willing to look at the different aspects of the line -- quality (design and construction), price, uniqueness -- all independently and as part of the whole, when deciding its value as both a toy and a "collectible."

I'm finding that the "collectible" word is being abused a lot though lately, and for sure, I hold those products to a higher standard than others. Sideshow's product is marketed as a "collectible" and not a "toy," so obviously they're to be held to a higher standard than the 12-inch figures that Hasbro released.

Same goes for something like the "vintage" line... but value is a relevant thing. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-21-2007, 05:57 PM
As someone who doesn't connect with the "nostalgia" aspect of it (as I was born in 1989), I frankly think the vintage line has run its course. I really enjoyed the first 12 packaging-wise, but the novelty kind of wore off after that.

It seemed that the "draw" for those of us who either open the figures or don't much care about the packaging was originally supposed to be the advanced level of detail and articulation. However, as many have pointed out, the basic line usually matches or surpasses the vintage-style line now, as many advances have been made in the last three years. Too many of the figures were subpar - C-3PO, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Hoth Han, etc.

On the subject of accessories - the vintage line has always been abysmal in this area. Many of these re-used parts were outdated even upon release (Obi-Wan's lightsaber) or just plain wrong (X-wing Luke having Vader's saber and a stark white helmet; Hoth Han's giant binoculars; Greedo's idiotic vest). This is one of the areas in which the Evolutions sets are much, much better (or at least the 2005 ones were; I don't know what the 2008 ones will have). Every figure had several accessories that would never be incorporated into the vintage line - AOTC Anakin's handcuffs/chain, the Clone Trooper's pilot helmet, the switchable Sith lightning hands.

Also, the Evolutions sets can offer a much more diverse array of characters than the current configuration of vintage figures can. The vintage line is limited to 96 figures or so, and strictly the original trilogy. I would much rather have a super-articulated General Grievous, Jango Fett, and Qui-Gon Jinn (two out of three ain't bad) than a super-articulated Cloud Car commander or Bespin Gown Leia.

And for those of us who open, $20 for three figures is a hell of a lot better than $10 or $12 for one. Yes, I know about rereleases, but those don't happen for every single figure.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-21-2007, 06:06 PM
I like the Vintage style and the Evolutions, so I'm happy either way. :thumbsup:

JediTricks
08-21-2007, 10:06 PM
Nobody is complaining that Sideshow is charging $50-60 for each of their 12" figures, because the difference in the quality of their figures, compared to Hasbro's 12" line, is pretty clear. Although I know some people would rather settle for "good enough" at $20 rather than "amazing" at $60.My *** they're not, I'm b**ching about that every time! $70 for Asajj and Boushh was painful, lemme tell you, no matter how good they are, they're overpriced every time.


Why shouldn't the same apply to the 3.75" line? For the most part, (let me underline that before someone throws Endor Leia in my face) the vintage-style figures have been amazing in quality compared to the standard line and they have raised the overall quality of the entire line. While Bossk and IG-88 were absolutely stellar in quality, within the next couple of years, they will be average. They have raised the bar and soon every figure will be at that level.I'd argue that there are a few standouts in the line among a sea of lesser entries. And these things came when ROTS was being developed, so the articulation and sculpt style had already been in the works, it just carried through to VOTC first. Plus, we keep seeing Vintage figures in the basic line later, sometimes with less paint apps but sometimes just as good ones (not that most really have the paint apps to justify the pricepoint anyway).

For me, if the basic line is going to be a dumping ground and the Vintage line going to be treated as "premium", there's no reason to stick with this line because the Vintage is always a crapshoot - will you get a tiny helmet, fuzzy vest, head that looks nothing like the guy, green-deco torso for no reason, giraffe neck, fragile joints, etc.? And the Vintage line never has really good accessories. So it's not a big enough leap forward that I want to depend on it.



I agree, to a degree. This years duds were Leia (sorry Kidhuman!!!), and Luke to a degree. I do feel there were three 'there' figs in this wave: Ig-88, Bossk, and the Snowtrooper...Ah, now you've brought up the crux of what I was saying. For me, Luke isn't a "bad" figure, he's just not a "fantastic" figure. VTSC1 it was just the Tusken that made the cut, the rest were mostly pretty decent - not a one I consider a true stinker - yet they don't fully deliver. VOTC wave 1 is basically Han if you like that figure or nothing. VOTC wave 2 is Vader and Lando, both of which have enough foibles to put them on the fence. VOTC wave 3 is Fett and Chewie, I know some of you guys still idolize the Stormtrooper too, but ultimately we're talking about at best half the Vintage figures being standouts. A layup isn't a slam dunk, a walk-in isn't a home run, and a judges' decision isn't a KO.


As for the nostalgia kick, for me it's cute and fun but not really what I spend the extra money on.


BTW, the Vintage Stormtrooper is inferior in its sculpt and deco to the Capture of Tantive IV Battle Pack Stormtrooper, minus the incorrect belt. So obviously Evolutions (the origin of that BP Trooper) is at least on par with Vintage, if not able to raise the bar.

Devo
08-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Same here. I never quite understood all the hating this figure took. I thought it was really well done. I think people made up their minds after they had seen some early production photos and never gave it a second chance. To me, the four biggest misteps of the Vintage line are as follows:

1.) Greedo's "My Mom Made This For My Toy" vest
2.) Han Solo Hoth Outfit's lack of inclusion of the hood up head (which we'll no doubt get one day.) Granted, I still love the figure.
15918
3.) Craptastic-3PO
4.) Vintage Yoda's "Kuato" head sculpt.
15916

5) Tatooine Luke's softgoods
6) X-wing Luke's balljoint neck/Endor Leia's balljoint neck
7) Endor Han using the anorexic parts of the VOTC Han, adding a buff torso, shrinking the head to the size of a pea and having the wrong haircut at that.
8) Endor Leia using completely the wrong coloured poncho
9) Luke bespin not having a lightsaber hilt placeable on his belt while other Lukes not seen in the films with belt-attached hilts for reasons unknown are given this feature and Hasbro's nonsensical answer as to why this happened.
10) VOTC Leia's doll face and giraffe neck
11) VOTC Boba Fett's helmet being too small and the wrong shape
12) VOTC lando being inferior to the POTJ version in all but quantity of articulation points

Jeez thats a lot of complaints and I like this line.

Gothiczartan
08-23-2007, 12:23 AM
will I see a luke stormtrooper disguise in new sculpt for his meight accurate or the repaint comic pack?

either way as long as they make a luke stormtrooper outfit, repaint of luke stormtrooper will due ok.

Nien Numb, I would like to see him in any package art, it does not have to be the vintage era, either way as long as we can see a new sculpt Nien Numb figure in SA with removable cap.

B-Wing Pilot with removable helmet that I want it's on my list!


5) Tatooine Luke's softgoods
6) X-wing Luke's balljoint neck/Endor Leia's balljoint neck
7) Endor Han using the anorexic parts of the VOTC Han, adding a buff torso, shrinking the head to the size of a pea and having the wrong haircut at that.
8) Endor Leia using completely the wrong coloured poncho
9) Luke bespin not having a lightsaber hilt placeable on his belt while other Lukes not seen in the films with belt-attached hilts for reasons unknown are given this feature and Hasbro's nonsensical answer as to why this happened.
10) VOTC Leia's doll face and giraffe neck
11) VOTC Boba Fett's helmet being too small and the wrong shape
12) VOTC lando being inferior to the POTJ version in all but quantity of articulation points

Jeez thats a lot of complaints and I like this line.

don't forget the removable cape lando should have. the sculpt on him looks ok to me it's just the cape that is stuck on him, needed retooling for a removable cape.

the rest of figures are fine to me.

Old Fossil
08-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Man, after reading some of these posts, I feel more like my namesake here than ever before. :smoker: I have to say I will be sad to not have another series of neo-Vintage figures to track down next year. I'll even miss the wrangling that the line generates here on the forums.

While I love these figures loose -- I have most every one loose, save for the few duds like 3PO, Yoda, and a couple others -- one of the great draws for me is the retro packaging. I can't afford true Vintage carded figures, for the most part, save for the more common ROTJ ones like Ackbar or Jabba's Palace denizens, and even then it is difficult to find decent cards with vibrant colors or clear bubbles. I can get that with the neo-Vintage line for ten bucks, and not have to worry about losing hundreds of dollars if my three-year-old daughter takes an interest in one of the carded figures I have on display. VOTC, VTSC, VTAC are all easily replaceable. What's even better is when visitors see my neo-Vintage carded figures alongside with "true" vintage, and (not being collectors themselves) they think they're all true vintage.

I only wish Hasbro had taken the "vintage" concept a step further, with figure and vehicle shots on the cardbacks and more figure promotions, similar to the Lucas Stormtrooper of last year. The latter would have been a great way to get the Yarna figure nearly everyone is clamoring for, or others like a "Droids" 3PO and R2, or a new ANH Uncle Owen, or perhaps a better way to offer fans the animated debut Fett.

Sinscia Fat'o
08-26-2007, 04:09 PM
Man, after reading some of these posts, I feel more like my namesake here than ever before. :smoker: I have to say I will be sad to not have another series of neo-Vintage figures to track down next year. I'll even miss the wrangling that the line generates here on the forums.

While I love these figures loose -- I have most every one loose, save for the few duds like 3PO, Yoda, and a couple others -- one of the great draws for me is the retro packaging. I can't afford true Vintage carded figures, for the most part, save for the more common ROTJ ones like Ackbar or Jabba's Palace denizens, and even then it is difficult to find decent cards with vibrant colors or clear bubbles. I can get that with the neo-Vintage line for ten bucks, and not have to worry about losing hundreds of dollars if my three-year-old daughter takes an interest in one of the carded figures I have on display. VOTC, VTSC, VTAC are all easily replaceable. What's even better is when visitors see my neo-Vintage carded figures alongside with "true" vintage, and (not being collectors themselves) they think they're all true vintage.

I only wish Hasbro had taken the "vintage" concept a step further, with figure and vehicle shots on the cardbacks and more figure promotions, similar to the Lucas Stormtrooper of last year. The latter would have been a great way to get the Yarna figure nearly everyone is clamoring for, or others like a "Droids" 3PO and R2, or a new ANH Uncle Owen, or perhaps a better way to offer fans the animated debut Fett.

I have often thought the same thing this would have been the best way, being promotional offers to give fans the characters like Owen, Yarna ETC a figure by using the vintage line (Which is aimed at collectors) though i guess we'll have to wait till 09 lol, oh well at least evolutions are cool figures and has a decent line up.

bigbarada
08-26-2007, 10:49 PM
After seeing some of the 25th Anniversary GI Joes at Wal-Mart yesterday (at $5 apiece), I would be all for a "re-imagining" of the vintage line. No more clamshells, vintage cardbacks with modern updates (like J-hooks), and the standard figure price.

Plus, expand the line to figures that weren't originally available in the vintage line. I would love to see a new Grand Moff Tarkin on the 1978 Star Wars card, or Slave Leia on the 1983 ROTJ card.

JediTricks
08-27-2007, 12:22 AM
I know Star Wars came out 30 years ago and all, but do we really have to live so heavily in the past? The toys are supposed to be reminiscent of a timeless fantasy era "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away", and while going to see the films has meaning for us, does everything about the toys have to revolve around that? I don't mean that to be harsh, but I do think it's a fair criticism. The vintage packaging is cute, but its meaning is of a bygone time in the toy market when figures used to rattle around in tiny coffins without trays to hold them in place and design was done by hand with an eye towards a basic presentation.

Blue2th
08-27-2007, 01:42 AM
I agree. They are nice though. I will buy them all if and when more come out. But ya know even though the nostalgic packaging really appeals to me, I wouldn't touch these figures if they had the quality of the old 70's figures. No way would I buy any of them.
Even though I love this nostalgic look, It has no place with the Prequel figures. I think the Evolutions packaging is the way to go with them. If hasbro wants to put out the Prequel figures in a Vintage type single figure packs, as a lot of people have requested, they could do it in the same clamshell as the Vintage with the same overall outstanding quality of the figures. Just make the artwork in a modern way. For now the Evolutions is fine, and a good value.

TheRealDubya
08-27-2007, 01:16 PM
After seeing some of the 25th Anniversary GI Joes at Wal-Mart yesterday (at $5 apiece), I would be all for a "re-imagining" of the vintage line. No more clamshells, vintage cardbacks with modern updates (like J-hooks), and the standard figure price.

Great idea -- then everyone is happy. The premium pricing needs to go away.

AmanaMatt
09-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Great idea -- then everyone is happy. The premium pricing needs to go away.

I could deal with that - Hasbro could always offer clamshells for sale - for those that want them....

neocrasher
09-05-2007, 03:47 AM
i can only hope for a vintage style death star battle luke

Sinscia Fat'o
09-05-2007, 03:52 PM
i can only hope for a vintage style death star battle luke

You'll never see it, its the final ace hasbro has left up their sleeves for a defintive luke that kids and collectors will bust a nut over.

2-1B
09-05-2007, 07:24 PM
whose nut ?

Sinscia Fat'o
09-05-2007, 08:03 PM
whose nut ?

It's slang for extreme excitement, a cliamax of joy for said figure would portray if he was finally given to us.