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JediGoofy
08-22-2007, 05:46 AM
My Titanium Series SW vehicles collection is becoming more and more large, taking a lot of space in my "museum" room, and I was wondering whether the models in this line have already outnumbered the MicroMachines ones. :Ponder:

I got a contradictory answer. :cross-eye

There are 87 vehicles in the MicroMachines lines (OT Vehicles collections, Shadows of the Empire, Epic Collections, and Episode I Figure/Vehicle Collections, counting just the vehicles). If we subtract the reissues (battle damaged ships, Speederbike with Luke, Leia, etc.) there are 72 unique vehicles. :pleased:

While in the Titanium Series there are 101 SW vehicles (Wal-Mart Exclusive, 5-packs, mass retail single packs, counting just the vehicles and not counting silver or gold ones). But if we subtract the repaints there are just 48 unique vehicles! :eek: (not to mention the fact that many of them are reissues of the Die-Cast line)

We already knew this, but to see the math is still shocking: in the Titanium Series we have more repaints than actual vehicles. :rolleyes:

Yes I know we have to be thankful just to have a line of small SW vehicles, but I wonder if this different rate of reissues/repaints is really due to a big change in the toy market in these years (from 1994 to now), or if it is due to the company attitude (Hasbro). :confused:

I often read the "Hasbro Q&A", and the Hasbro people answering look like they are real SW fans, but 53 repaints in 101 vehicles! Il looks like they are exploiting us a little too much, imho. :ermm:

Ciao,
JediGoofy

Kidhuman
08-22-2007, 06:15 AM
I am not surprised by the fact that it is more repaints in the series. The Slave 1 has been done 4 times(Jango, Boba, UGH, Firespray ship)

JediTricks
08-22-2007, 11:56 PM
Nice math! You should add a question to the Q&A thread about this, we've kinda danced around the issue in the past but hard numbers really deliver the point solidly.

LTBasker
08-23-2007, 12:25 AM
I'm going to bet their reponse would be something about it being easier to produce more unique models when it's small bits of plastic rather than "die-cast" models that are 2-3 times the size.

Though even a single new vehicle release probably helps the line more than constantly releasing repaints.

JediTricks
08-23-2007, 01:48 AM
I dunno about that. Hasbro's business model has always been to sell the same toy multiple times over through a new deco - Mr Potato Head, GI Joe, GI Joe A Real American Hero, even Transformers - it's built into their business model, but with Star Wars it's not as much, and they should be running Titaniums the same way. That said, it can have a negative impact, like I'd say we're seeing with Titaniums.

JediGoofy
08-23-2007, 05:37 AM
Thank you for the suggestion JT, I just posted my votes and a new question in the current "Questions for Hasbro - round 35" thread.

Please feel free to modify the question if you think it is not suitable for the Q&A with Hasbro.

Moreover, JT and LTBasker, I borrowed some words from your posts, I hope is ok with you. Thank you.

Ciao,
JediGoofy

Kidhuman
08-23-2007, 06:07 AM
Here are some repaints for the line JT if you want to add it in:

Slave 1 mold -4 times
Arc - 3 times
B-wing - 2 times
A-wing 2 times
Falcon - 3 times
Death Star - 2 times

JediGoofy
08-23-2007, 07:16 AM
Hey KH,
other "repaint" records to be added to yours :thumbsup: :

X-wing - 4 times (red 5, red 3, Wedge's red 2, Dagobah)
Speeder Bike - 4 times (biker scout, Luke, Leia, Paploo)
Republic Gunship - 4 times (red, green, Clone Wars, dark green)

and the winner is ... :pleased:

ROTS Jedi Starfighter - 6 times (Anakin's yellow, Anakin's green, Obi Wan's red, Obi Wan's blue, Mace Windu's purple, Vader's (!) black) :crazed:


Of these I can condone the Speeder Bike, because it has different drivers (and Paploo is very funny :) ).

Ciao,
JediGoofy

BountyHunterScum
08-23-2007, 05:37 PM
Falcon 5 times. Gold, Silver, Clean, Damaged and ROTS Blue Trim.

Kidhuman
08-23-2007, 11:19 PM
Dont forget about Plo Koons Fighter and Kit Fistos fighter also and the hyperspace ring versions.

I forgot about the Gold and Silver Falcons. Might as well toss the X-wings in there and the Tie Fighters

Warstar
08-24-2007, 02:24 AM
Whoops this was a dupe delete it :p

Warstar
08-24-2007, 02:28 AM
DO NOT GET *ME* STARTED ON REPAINTS!

Why do you think I made THIS THREAD? (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=35813)

I learned long ago from Todd McFarlane and McFarlane Toys that the simple business model is that it costs a LOT to develop, tool, and shakedown an entirely new toy mold. Once that mold is in place and run and proven then it's cheap as hec to get new paint colors and just release the mold with a re-deco! It cuts the cost of the development of the new mold itself exponentially- therefore (and I say this with a bit of sarcasm ;)) the JSF mold had to have been really expensive to make for 6 repaints to have been made of it :D

Technically- since 2007 Wave 1- Mass Retail Wave 16- which is January of this year- there have been a total of *7* new molds made- one of which is just being released (AT-AP) while the other is an old Galoob mold about to be released (Trade Federation Droid Control Ship). All the rest of the Titaniums we got this year have been repaints! If you go back one more month to December last year, we would have 11 new molds.

Sure I count variants in my other thread but if you just count paint schemes then yeah we got 48 different and unique SHIP MOLDS released (which is why my other list is broken down that way) - there are still 2 from the Galoob Line we have yet to see (Sebulba's Pod Racer and Gian Speeder) and 4 more that were protoyped that we have yet to see released (Gungan Submarine, Trade Federation Landing ship, MTT ((Droid Transport Tank)), Anakin Skywalker's Pod Racer)

Throw in all of the repaints- (and there have been 6 X-Wing Repaints to date- Red 5 from Wave 1, Gold Celeb 3, Red 3, Red-5 again from the 5-Pack with yellow stripe down the nose and blue on R2's dome, then Wedge's Red 2 and finally Dagobah Muck)- and we're talking mass hysteria.

I mean we have had wave after wave of repaints and yet the only pegwarmers I see right now are from Wave 14 (December '06! Anakin's JSF, General Grievous' Starfighter etc.) I also see the occaisional January '07 Patrol Dewback out there too.

If you want a list broken down of what's been made and repainted (without variants like Light/Dark etc.) then here it is for all 48 of the ships we've had (and have yet to have). This ONLY counts Star Wars Titanium series ships and does not include Galoob releases and I include Silver's and Gold's etc. I put asterisks next to the vehicles we only have one version of (and there are 20 out of 48, believe it or not!) :

(1) X-Wing Fighter= 6 repaints

(2) TIE Fighter= 4 repaints

(3) Millenium Falcon= 5 repaints

(4) Slave 1 (Fett's and Jango's- a.k.a. Firespray Interceptor)= 5 repaints

(5) Revenge of the Sith Style Jedi Starfighter (Yellow, Red, Green, Blue, Purple, Black TO DATE)= 6 repaints

(6) Republic Gunship= 5 repaints

(7) Droid Tri-Fighter= 2 repaints

(8) AT-RT= 3 repaints

(9) A-Wing Fighter= 3 repaints

(10) Snowspeeder= 3 repaints

(11) Star Destroyer= 2 repaints

(12) Y-Wing= 3 repaints

(13) Naboo Starfighter= 2 repaints

(14) ARC-170= 4 repaints

(15) Swamp Speeder= 3 repaints

(16) TIE Bomber= 3 repaints

*(17) Landspeeder= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(18) Wookie Flyer (Helicopter)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(19) Naboo Royal Starship= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(20) Republic Attack Cruiser / Imperial Attack Cruiser (a.k.a. Venerator Class= 2 repaints

(21) Clone Turbo Tank= 2 repaints

(22) Speeder Bike= 5 repaints

(23) Death Star= 2 repaints

*(24) Droid Fighter (Trade Federation and Vulture Droid)= 1 PAINT JOB! (This does not count Galoob's!)

(25) Darth Vader's TIE Fighter= 3 repaints

*(26) Imperial Shuttle (Tyderium)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(27) AT-AT= 3 repaints

*(28) Sith Infiltrator= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(29) Droid Tank (aka AAT Trade Federation Tank)= 2 repaints

*(30) Republic Cruiser (Red Diplomatic- from Episode 1)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(31) Sandcrawler= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(32) Executor Star Destroyer (with small Star Destroyer attached)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(33) TIE Interceptor= 2 repaints (and I wonder if "Battle-Damaged" isn't too far behind to make it 3?)

(34) B-Wing Fighter= 2 repaints

*(35) Anakin Skywalker's Clone Wars Jedi Starfighter= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(36) General Grievous' Starfighter (ROTS)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(37) Episode 3 Amidala's Naboo Star Skiff (Flying Wing Starship from Mustafar)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(38) AT-ST= 2 repaints

*(39) Darth Maul on Sith Speeder= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(40) Attack of the Clones Style Jedi Starfighter with Hyperspace Ring= 3 repaints

(41) Tantive IV (Rebel Blockade Runner)= 2 repaints

*(42) AT-TE= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(43) Patrol Dewback= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(44) Invisible Hand (General Grievous' Flagship)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

*(45) Jabba The Hutt's Sail Barge= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!

(46) V-Wing Fighter= 2 repaints

*(47) AT-AP (All-Terrain Attack Pod)= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW! (To date...)

*(48) Trade Federation Battleship= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!


Amazing when you stop and look at it...

I do notice that most of the 20 vehicles that have not been repainted would look silly if they were (like Darth Maul's Sith Speeder- what if they painted his cloak pink? Heh- of course they could always Gold or Silver the thing dang it :upset: )

Who knows what will be repainted in the future? I mean I hope we get more new stuff but right now I think we're lucky just to have some of these already, ya know? And not ALL of the repaints are bad- some of them are quite good really.

Anyway, just some fuel for thought. If there are any questions on my numbers do ask- and I always welcome corrections :)

(And that's what happens when you get me started on repaints :D)

JediGoofy
08-24-2007, 03:39 AM
Hi WS,
of course I have to pay tribute to you for your invaluable thread, without which I would have not been able at all to recover (still partially unfortunately) my Titanium collection. :D
Thank you! :thumbsup:

Back on topic. Yes I understand a new repaint is a lot cheaper than a new mold, but this has not been a problem for the other Titanium Series lines: Transformers, Spiderman, and Galactica. How many repaints over the total production are there in those lines? And how do they perform in comparison to SW? :Ponder:

I really do not know, but I suspect there are more new molds and they sell less than SW. Can you confirm this? :confused:

If this is true, does it mean SW is less important for Hasbro than those other lines? I think we should be more important, because afaik SW is the most important license for Hasbro. Don't you think? Do I make a mistake in my reasoning?

Maybe it is more important for Hasbro to make more efforts to gain a new market than to maintain a strong market they already have, that is us SW collectors. But is it a good business to dissatisfy your best customers trying to serve better new potential customers? (I am talking just about Titanium Series here, not the general SW market)

Boh? (Italian for: who knows? :) ) Unfortunately these are questions we ask within our forum, and probably most of us agree but we cannot do anything. And Hasbro would answer talking about a difficult market and money constraints in any case. Maybe they are right and I do not have a complete picture of the situation, but I still suspect they could make more money if they managed the business differently (I am thinking to Titanium Series, and also to Action Fleet Saga, Micro Vehicles, Titanium Ultra, etc, oh well, mine are useless words :( )

Ciao,
JediGoofy

P.S. for Warstar: why don't you add a similar list for Battlestar Galactica at the end of your thread? :D It would be so useful for science-fiction collectors, and I was not able to find absolutely nothing on the BSG side like your work on the SW side. Please! :yes:

RJarvis
08-24-2007, 08:20 AM
*(28) Sith Infiltrator= 1 PAINT JOB! WOW!



Just a quick thought, and yes, I may be opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened, BUT although its not a complete re-deco like the JSF, the older Infiltrator doesn't have the scorch marks and the silver battle damage mark on its nose like the more recent release.

This probably doesn't fall within the more obvious bounds of what would typically be considered a repaint for the purposes of this argument, but it still might be worthy of note.

Here are a couple of pics as examples:
15958 15959

Anyone have a side-by-side comparison pic of the first release Infiltrator and the more recent?

rj

Kidhuman
08-24-2007, 09:10 AM
Was the older one an AF release or something? I only remember 1 Infiltrator in this line

RJarvis
08-24-2007, 09:41 AM
Was the older one an AF release or something? I only remember 1 Infiltrator in this line

No, not AF, but it was back in the Episode I release. Here's a couple of pics on card:

15961 15962

rj

Kidhuman
08-24-2007, 09:49 AM
Ok, a Galoob release it seems. I didnt collect these back then.

JediTricks
08-25-2007, 02:17 AM
WS, I hate to break it to you, but Hasbro already said the Trade Fed Battleship would have a chase version painted with the Ep I colors. :p


Those are some crazy numbers gang!

sicqnus
08-25-2007, 11:05 AM
WS, I hate to break it to you, but Hasbro already said the Trade Fed Battleship would have a chase version painted with the Ep I colors. :p


Those are some crazy numbers gang!

Those were rotting by tons on the shelves back in the Ep1 era (Donutships in Ep1 colors).

Warstar
08-26-2007, 02:38 AM
Heh- figures that a "chase" variant of the Trade Fed Droid Control ship would be on the way...I just want the Outrider, dang it :p

Well, since RJ mentioned Galoob ships yeah, the Infiltrator in the old line had no battle damage- just as the old AAT had none and the Republic Cruiser had no black "wash" added to bring out the mold details.

In fact, there are all kinds of crazy little differences in the Galoob line compared to their modern counterparts (let's not forget the Date Stamps- 96 vs. 04 etc.)...

The only ship that looks identical as I recall (I have all of the Galoob metals, btw) is the Sandcrawler- which is STILL the biggest pegwarmer of all time in the Die-Cast line.

I am glad Hasbro is givng us new stuff and repaints, but I assume the Spiderman Titaniums are done (since the movie is gone) and that the Transformers ones probably only have a few more releases (since the movie is done- and let's not forget the repaints there like Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, etc. :p) Maybe this will give Hasbro the time to more SW Titaniums again!

I mean we DO have a wish list a mile long of ships that we want Hasbro to make- I just seriously wonder how much longer the will be around?

BTW- I am almost done with seriously re-modeling my room and today I got out all of my 6" Ultra Ships and my packaged 3" ships (though I packed away the TF Falcon Gold pack, the variant sticker 5-pack Number 3, and 22 single-pack 3" variations ((package design, colors of ships, etc.))) and I only put out one of each ship (save the Gold Darth TIEs where I have the Toy Fair and SDCC ones out) and I am going to put all of my opened ships in front of them here shortly. I'll post pics- the Titanium Wall is reborn! :D It was fun to dig them out and finally get them displayed! :)

I still mourn the 6" Ultra line's loss- the little Vader inside the Darth's TIE- the panel and the cockpit on the Falcon- the Rep Repaint Gunship- even Bigg's X-Wing- all of the final ships are just cool! :D I wish more could have been made before the line died but ah well...would have LOVED to have seen a Titanium Star Destroyer...or a Viper Mark II :D

Oh yeah- a list for BSG's? It's pretty easy, actually, as there really haven't been too many variations (a lot of paint/deco ones really but they're subjective- light vs. dark etc.- not too many bonified changes/improvements). Did they ever come out with a corrected Viper Mark II package with an actual Mark II Viper in them? I never saw one.

Otherwise I might tack on a little BSG list of the known variations just 'cause you asked :D

Blue2th
08-26-2007, 04:46 AM
.

Oh yeah- a list for BSG's? It's pretty easy, actually, as there really haven't been too many variations (a lot of paint/deco ones really but they're subjective- light vs. dark etc.- not too many bonified changes/improvements). Did they ever come out with a corrected Viper Mark II package with an actual Mark II Viper in them? I never saw one.

Otherwise I might tack on a little BSG list of the known variations just 'cause you asked :D
Well, they fixed the package on the MkII, but it's a black repaint with blue stripes. Just found it the other day. I guess it's a stealth version.

JediGoofy
09-03-2007, 09:28 AM
Otherwise I might tack on a little BSG list of the known variations just 'cause you asked :D

:love:

Ciao,
JediGoofy

joshephe
09-04-2007, 02:12 PM
By a list i made today counting the gold and silver ones there will be either 115 or 114 titaniums by years end.

Warstar
09-08-2007, 05:10 AM
I got 110 repaints listed- where are the other 4-5 coming from?

We getting more golds or silvers or something?

joshephe
09-08-2007, 07:20 AM
I recompiled my list from the list you use and came up with the same number I had before. Also you are missing one from wave 5. The white darth vader tie fighter. I could send you my list.