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View Full Version : Obi Wan to Luke: "I won't be able to help you..."



jjreason
08-29-2007, 10:47 AM
How come? I think he could have.... was this just a threat to try and keep Luke on Dagobah, or was Obi Wan concerned Vader would sense his presence as part of the force if he helped Luke?

Or was it something else? Anyone?

Rocketboy
08-29-2007, 10:59 AM
Obi-Wan was an *sshole.

stillakid
08-29-2007, 11:31 AM
In the spirit form, Obi really can't be much help. He can't do much beyond utter Chinese Fortune Cookie phrases to provide inspiration.

Beyond just not being able to help, it is a "spiritual" journey message as well. Luke is going to face his demons head on and it's his journey to take...alone. This is why him leaving at that critical time in his education held such disastrous potential. He had the "power" to manipulate the Force, but he lacked the emotional tools to handle the psychological attack that Obi knew Vader would throw at the boy. It's the same as putting an AK47 in the hands of a child and saying "shoot that." The kid will, either willingly because it's fun or because the kid is under duress and will do whatever the adult says.

It is only after Luke goes through that trial by fire that he makes the emotional leap that enables him to once again enter the dragon's lair at the end of the ROTJ and succeed. Spirit Ben wouldn't have helped Luke on Bespin had he been there. He would have crippled him for life.

Rocketboy
08-29-2007, 11:32 AM
Obi-Wan was an *sshole.And probably rip roaring drunk.

stillakid
08-29-2007, 12:15 PM
And probably rip roaring drunk.

Ghosts drink spirits. :yes:

Kidhuman
08-29-2007, 02:45 PM
He had a hot date with the Ghost of Padme.

2-1B
08-29-2007, 09:09 PM
It's another one of many plot contrivances that plague this saga from Episode I thru VI.

JediTricks
08-30-2007, 03:33 AM
Luke made a decision that went against the wisdom of the Force, Obi-Wan couldn't give him more advice and help that would have Luke following that path.

darthvyn
08-30-2007, 12:41 PM
he couldn't help him because he still hadn't figured out how to pick stuff up to throw at vader. he's a ghost after all.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-30-2007, 08:41 PM
Luke had shown great promise, but he followed "Old Ben's" instructions. Then, when he proved to be reckless and headstrong, Ben realized his mentoring wouldn't work anymore. It wasn't that he couldn't help him, it's that Luke wouldn't listen.

jjreason
09-01-2007, 08:34 AM
That's interersting, BCJ. My take on it was always "I won't be able to help you", not "I won't help you", I thought there was some sort of force related reason that would stop Obi Wan, as opposed to his choice (but then that's not right either, Luke could hear Obi Wan in the presence of Darth Vader as soon Obi Wan gave himself to the force in ANH).

When I watched it recently, I guess I started to consider the fact that Obi Wan might be choosing to refuse to help Luke instead. Seemed odd.

2-1B
09-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Yeah, the old man was a real help to the little b**** when he told him to run in the earlier movie. lol

stillakid
09-01-2007, 11:49 AM
That's interersting, BCJ. My take on it was always "I won't be able to help you", not "I won't help you", I thought there was some sort of force related reason that would stop Obi Wan, as opposed to his choice (but then that's not right either, Luke could hear Obi Wan in the presence of Darth Vader as soon Obi Wan gave himself to the force in ANH).

When I watched it recently, I guess I started to consider the fact that Obi Wan might be choosing to refuse to help Luke instead. Seemed odd.

I think that your first answer is the correct one. In ANH, Luke isn't choosing to go face Vader or his biggest demons. He's going to blow up the Death Star because he believes that he should help the Rebellion. That's what he was always interested in anyway. And a part of him was after that adventure and excitement that Yoda speaks of in ESB.

In ESB, Luke chooses to go face Vader. This has nothing to do with looking for adventure and excitement. He's leaving his training before he is emotionally prepared to face a psychologically, physically, and "Forcefully" stronger nemesis. I'm sure that Spirit Ben would have helped Luke on Bespin if he could have, after all "that boy was our last hope." He didn't help because he couldn't for some reason. Maybe it was something about the Force or because of Vader. Who knows, but it is crystal clear that he didn't help the boy because he couldn't.

El Chuxter
09-01-2007, 03:23 PM
So Obi-Wan says, "I won't be able to help you," but Shmi says, "He can help you. He was meant to help you."

Okay, that proves nothing. Just thought I'd point it out.

Mad Slanted Powers
09-02-2007, 12:57 AM
Obi-Wan says "I cannot interfere." He and Yoda also do their best at the end to impart as much advice as possible as he leaving, such as "Don't give in to hate", and "Mind what you have learned."

stillakid
09-02-2007, 02:16 AM
Obi-Wan says "I cannot interfere." He and Yoda also do their best at the end to impart as much advice as possible as he leaving, such as "Don't give in to hate", and "Mind what you have learned."

If you (collective "you") notice, there really are only a small handful of bumper sticker advice sayings that Yoda and/or Obi Wan give out in the course of three movies. I've always tried to figure out what the heck Yoda was teaching Luke in all of that off-camera time.

Mad Slanted Powers
09-02-2007, 03:19 AM
If you (collective "you") notice, there really are only a small handful of bumper sticker advice sayings that Yoda and/or Obi Wan give out in the course of three movies. I've always tried to figure out what the heck Yoda was teaching Luke in all of that off-camera time.

Maybe they just repeated the same things all the time. Sometimes repetition and constant drills are what you need for something to sink in.

The radio version of ANH has some extended scenes of Ben training Luke to use the lightsaber. I only listened to the ESB radio drama once so I don't recall what else happened there.

jjreason
09-02-2007, 11:37 AM
I'm thinking now that Yoda and Obi Wan see this as a critical incident that they dare not interfere with, for fear of dooming any slim chance of bringing balance to the force. If they chose to help Luke on Bespin, they may have somehow forced Luke into Vader's arms - the threat of which was far worse even than having Luke killed.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-29-2013, 12:56 AM
Hijacked! Just like Obi-Wan would've done; to serve his own purposes.

But I figured I wouldn't start a whole new thread, for a topic related to the old Jedi. Obi-Wan knows that Luke and Leia are siblings. Luke makes a few "she's beautiful" comments around Ben. Ben does NOTHING to deter Luke from any romantic feelings for her. Not even to distract him or have him focus on his important tasks at hand. If anything, he plays on Luke's infatuations to get him to join his "d___ crusade." Creepy?

bigbarada
11-30-2013, 06:52 PM
Hijacked! Just like Obi-Wan would've done; to serve his own purposes.

But I figured I wouldn't start a whole new thread, for a topic related to the old Jedi. Obi-Wan knows that Luke and Leia are siblings. Luke makes a few "she's beautiful" comments around Ben. Ben does NOTHING to deter Luke from any romantic feelings for her. Not even to distract him or have him focus on his important tasks at hand. If anything, he plays on Luke's infatuations to get him to join his "d___ crusade." Creepy?

I think that's just more evidence that Luke and Leia were never intended to be brother and sister until the final plot revisions for ROTJ.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-03-2013, 01:10 PM
Hijacked! Just like Obi-Wan would've done; to serve his own purposes.

But I figured I wouldn't start a whole new thread, for a topic related to the old Jedi. Obi-Wan knows that Luke and Leia are siblings. Luke makes a few "she's beautiful" comments around Ben. Ben does NOTHING to deter Luke from any romantic feelings for her. Not even to distract him or have him focus on his important tasks at hand. If anything, he plays on Luke's infatuations to get him to join his "d___ crusade." Creepy?

I don't think he actually mentions anything about Leia's appearance in front of Obi-Wan. He says, "Who is she? She's beautiful," in front of the droids when he first sees the message, but in Obi-Wan's hovel he only talks about the message and its content. And I certainly don't remember any examples of Obi-Wan playing into it, at least not directly. The film doesn't even acknowledge that Obi-Wan might be aware of Luke's crush, but I don't think the family connection is something he would have mentioned to Luke anyway.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-03-2013, 09:45 PM
"The Princess? She's here?" Luke tries his own Jedi mind trick on Han's greed; wasn't Obi-Wan in the room at that time (wait, maybe he had already left; you may be right)?

"I need your help, SHE needs your help.... I'm getting too old for this sort of thing." I guess that's more of a damsel-in-distress request (again, you may be right).

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-04-2013, 12:52 AM
"The Princess? She's here?" Luke tries his own Jedi mind trick on Han's greed; wasn't Obi-Wan in the room at that time (wait, maybe he had already left; you may be right)?

"I need your help, SHE needs your help.... I'm getting too old for this sort of thing." I guess that's more of a damsel-in-distress request (again, you may be right).

I wouldn't have remembered it off the top of my head (send complaints to BlueHarvest.net if I'm incorrect (http://www.blueharvest.net/scoops/anh-script.shtml)), but Obi-Wan leaves before R2-D2 and C-3PO notify everyone that Leia's on the Death Star. Luke actually has the line, "But he didn't know she was here," in reference to old Ben, when Luke and Han discuss the possibility of rescuing her.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Luke actually has the line, "But he didn't know she was here," in reference to old Ben, when Luke and Han discuss the possibility of rescuing her.That's right, because then Luke says, "... and he probably would've deterred me from hitting on her. I guess" right after it. ;)

El Chuxter
12-04-2013, 08:40 PM
Obi-Wan had made quite a lucrative career as a pornographer in his old age, and was actually looking forward to getting some material for his Force-sensitive incest fetish site. :evil:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-05-2013, 12:56 PM
That's right, because then Luke says, "... and he probably would've deterred me from hitting on her. I guess" right after it. ;)

Oh yeah, I think that scene's on the Blu-ray. :D

Tycho
12-11-2013, 04:14 AM
If all the Exp. Univ. references are adhered to in the new movies, Ewan (as Obi-Wan) will not appear as a ghost to Luke.

In HTTE (the Thrawn series) when Jaina and Jacen are born, Obi-Wan says he must leave Luke to bring about his own vision of a NJO.

That being said, Obi-Wan (Ewan) could appear to Jaina, Ben Skywalker, or Allanah Solo.

I wouldn't mind if he returned to appear to Luke - or ...wait for it....Leia!

Perhaps to discuss with Leia her daughter leaving to give rebirth to The Empire, beginning The Fel Imperial Dynasty of more Force-wielding Emperors (but good this time) with the Imperial Knights!

Leia and Luke will definitely not approve.

But their new Empire is restricted to the Remnant out near the Outer Rim by the Corporate Sector.