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Mando3lite
09-22-2007, 12:54 AM
ok i hope im getting this right.

In epIV luke is in obi wans house and obi wan tells luke he has to come to allderaan, and luke huffs and puffs, and somewhere in between he says," Ihate the empire more than anything." well it was here or and the destroyed sandcrawler..... any ways it was before luke found beru and owen dead, which would be a reason to hate the empire... but definately AFTER he says that he wants to join the Academy, which i would assume is the imperial academy!

i found this interesting, Am I wrong?

JediTricks
09-22-2007, 01:33 AM
They're not specific that it's the "Imperial Academy", but I suppose that's a fair assumption. Basically the idea is Luke wants to go off to college like his friends, but he doesn't like the political policies of the Empire.

Mando3lite
09-22-2007, 02:29 AM
well i assume that its imperial only because the rebel academy wouldn't be advertised, logically.
but also when he runs in to Biggs in the yavin hangar he says"i told you i would make some day." but luke didnt seem to know he would join the rebels! this all confuses the story line for me

stillakid
09-22-2007, 02:38 AM
I gave this some thought. GOOD question! Wish I would've thought of it. :)

My take on the situation is like this: imagine that in the US we have our military services for many years along with the training academies. Well, imagine that the Democrats experience a coup, but that it is unknown to the general populace what actually happened. So now the evil Republicans run things. The Republicans declare a state of emergency and rewrite the Constitution, but that doesn't get rid of the other institutions like military academies or universities.

So Luke is saying that he hates the Empire "but there's nothing I can do about it right now" about 20 years after the coup happened. He lives in backwater Tatooine where the politics of the coup don't really affect anyone in any significant way. So, being the ambitious teen that he is (wanting to do more than just hang out in smalltown, Tatooine), Luke's "out" is to go to the Academy, in much the same way that wayward youth in BumFu##, USA have to join the Army to earn money for college. Luke hates the government, but he doesn't really connect those distant political issues to his "out" that will free him from a boring life on the farm. I'm sure that in the USA, there are plenty of young recruits in the military services who aren't supporters of the Republican war-mongerer regime. They just need a way off the farm so they have a chance at a more interesting life. That's Luke.

bigbarada
09-22-2007, 02:42 AM
Most of the Luke/Biggs stuff was written solely to appease the studio, who were worried about the fact that the main character of the film didn't show up until about 20 minutes into the movie. When the movie ran long, Lucas was happy to cut it all out and Luke and Biggs barely had a relationship at all in the original theatrical version of the film.

So I wouldn't put too much weight into the Luke/Biggs scenes in ANH since it seems that Lucas never really intended for them to stay in the movie.

bigbarada
09-22-2007, 02:45 AM
I gave this some thought. GOOD question! Wish I would've thought of it. :)

My take on the situation is like this: imagine that in the US we have our military services for many years along with the training academies. Well, imagine that the Democrats experience a coup, but that it is unknown to the general populace what actually happened. So now the evil Republicans run things. The Republicans declare a state of emergency and rewrite the Constitution, but that doesn't get rid of the other institutions like military academies or universities.

So Luke is saying that he hates the Empire "but there's nothing I can do about it right now" about 20 years after the coup happened. He lives in backwater Tatooine where the politics of the coup don't really affect anyone in any significant way. So, being the ambitious teen that he is (wanting to do more than just hang out in smalltown, Tatooine), Luke's "out" is to go to the Academy, in much the same way that wayward youth in BumFu##, USA have to join the Army to earn money for college. Luke hates the government, but he doesn't really connect those distant political issues to his "out" that will free him from a boring life on the farm. I'm sure that in the USA, there are plenty of young recruits in the military services who aren't supporters of the Republican war-mongerer regime. They just need a way off the farm so they have a chance at a more interesting life. That's Luke.

Getting a little political there don'tcha think?:rolleyes: I bet if I had written that post but used "evil Democrats" for my villains I would have gotten some kind or complaints or warnings from mods. Nice to know that the double standard is still in place here.

stillakid
09-22-2007, 02:52 AM
Getting a little political there don'tcha think?:rolleyes: I bet if I had written that post but used "evil Democrats" for my villains I would have gotten some kind or complaints or warnings from mods. Nice to know that the double standard is still in place here.

It's just a hypothetical example of current Earthly events to describe the parallels in a fictional universe. :)

Mando3lite
09-22-2007, 02:56 AM
thanks for the input, but who could be right, rigt? hahah only lucas i guess.

would it be funny if someone asked him this and he replied "oops"

bigbarada
09-22-2007, 02:58 AM
It's just a hypothetical example of current Earthly events to describe the parallels in a fictional universe. :)

More like a biased interpretation of events, not the events themselves; but this is not the place for this type of discussion.

You do make a good point, though, it's possible that Luke believed the Academy to still be independent of the Empire. Maybe Luke was just a bit behind on his current events.

JediTricks
09-22-2007, 03:42 AM
well i assume that its imperial only because the rebel academy wouldn't be advertised, logically.
but also when he runs in to Biggs in the yavin hangar he says"i told you i would make some day." but luke didnt seem to know he would join the rebels! this all confuses the story line for meAcademy doesn't have to be military, it can be another kind of school.

But yeah, Biggs jumped



Most of the Luke/Biggs stuff was written solely to appease the studio, who were worried about the fact that the main character of the film didn't show up until about 20 minutes into the movie. When the movie ran long, Lucas was happy to cut it all out and Luke and Biggs barely had a relationship at all in the original theatrical version of the film.

So I wouldn't put too much weight into the Luke/Biggs scenes in ANH since it seems that Lucas never really intended for them to stay in the movie.According to interviews, it wasn't the studio who wanted Luke in the movie earlier, it was a few of Lucas' friends who had read the 3rd draft script, they pushed the idea on him. This according to Lucas interviews in the Making of SW book.

But the idea of Biggs going off to the Academy without Luke, that part is meant to be in the film as backstory for what drives Luke - his friends are growing up and doing important things while he's held back by his farmer uncle. Luke wanting to be like Biggs and jump ship to join the Rebellion doesn't really need to be in the film's background though and is a fair cut.


The Academy is indeed the Imperial Academy according to the background info from official sources.



Getting a little political there don'tcha think?:rolleyes: I bet if I had written that post but used "evil Democrats" for my villains I would have gotten some kind or complaints or warnings from mods. Nice to know that the double standard is still in place here.It's not getting notice because it's directly part of the discussion about the films.

2-1B
09-22-2007, 12:58 PM
So did look think he was gonna make it big as a faceless TIE pilot or something ? Maybe fly Imperial Shuttles ? I suppose that might reflect our current military structure where they slot you wherever they think you are best suited.

bigbarada
09-22-2007, 02:28 PM
So did look think he was gonna make it big as a faceless TIE pilot or something ? Maybe fly Imperial Shuttles ? I suppose that might reflect our current military structure where they slot you wherever they think you are best suited.

I agree to an extent. In the US Army, you sign a contract guaranteeing training in a specific job; but ultimately the Army can place you wherever they need you. So, someone training to be a radio mechanic could conceivably find themselves in the job of a cook if the times are desperate enough. However, when it comes to the more technically specialized jobs, it's usually in the Army's best interests to slot that person for the job they were trained in. Especially if that job requires a top secret clearance. Security clearances and most of the really technical training programs are very expensive for the military. So they're not going to waste all that money training someone as an electronics warfare technician, for example, and getting them a top secret clearance, just to throw them on the front lines with rifle in their hands.

stillakid
09-22-2007, 02:33 PM
So did look think he was gonna make it big as a faceless TIE pilot or something ? Maybe fly Imperial Shuttles ? I suppose that might reflect our current military structure where they slot you wherever they think you are best suited.

Well, Luke could bullseye Womprats so he inevitably would have been called up by the Rebellion when they needed to fire a proton torpedo into a thermal exhaust port that was only 2 meters wide. It's all about connections and letting people know your skills. :)

2-1B
09-22-2007, 06:04 PM
I was just thinking about my cousin when I was posting that. He's in the Air Force and the higher up he went, the tougher the competition. He wanted to be a fighter pilot but he didn't get it, they slotted him in as a pilot on a cargo aircraft.

It made me wonder what the elite ranks were in the Empire, with the way they have (disposable) TIE pilots, officer-looking dudes flying shuttles, etc.

JediTricks
09-22-2007, 10:42 PM
So did look think he was gonna make it big as a faceless TIE pilot or something ? Maybe fly Imperial Shuttles ? I suppose that might reflect our current military structure where they slot you wherever they think you are best suited.Biggs talks about jumping ship, I think he was going to be a junior-grade officer, like one of the idjits who grouses about bounty hunters. Or one of those clowns who carries off the officers killed by Vader.

stillakid
09-22-2007, 11:03 PM
Or one of those clowns who carries off the officers killed by Vader.

Do you think that those guys were on permanent assignment?

El Chuxter
09-23-2007, 01:34 AM
I just figured he wanted to be a pilot, and the Academy was the only place he could get training and that his family could afford. Sorta like someone in the US wanting to be a pilot but not being able to afford pilot school. He just isn't keen about the guys running the Academy, but at this point doesn't hate them enough to do anything about it.

JediTricks
09-23-2007, 05:13 PM
Do you think that those guys were on permanent assignment?
Every post in the fleet has a squad of them, always on, 3 shifts of 3 each, "dead officer clean-up crew". It's expensive, but Palpataine's decided it's worth it after Vader got annoyed with the single squad that traveled with him - after he killed them, nobody came by and picked up their corpses for a week, the bodies just lay there on the bridge of the Virulence while its officers pretended not to notice, assuming that was what Lord Vader wanted.